Gwyneth Paltrow x Scarlett Johansson

0:00I get so many headaches every month. It could be chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox, on a botulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those who have 14 or fewer headache days a month. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk.

0:31Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. I've been in and out a lot lately for work, press and photo shoots, the usual whirlwind.

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2:09When you are pioneering anything or introducing new ideas to the culture, you get criticized. You do? Yeah. Did you hear about that? I didn't find the one. I found someone I respected and we made it the one. In a sort of longing kind of view of love, people understand each other as if by magic. Nothing in itself is addictive on the one hand, and on the other hand, everything could be addictive if there's an emptiness in that person that needs to be filled. I now know that nobody changes until they change their energy. And when you change your energy, you change your life. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow. This is the Goop Podcast, bringing together thought leaders, culture overchangers, creatives, founders, and CEOs, scientists, doctors, healers, and seekers here to start conversations because simply asking questions and listening has the power to change the way we see the world.

3:05Here we go. My guest today is Scarlett Johansson. Scarlett is an actor, producer, and the founder of a new skincare line called The Outset. It may be hard to believe that Scarlett ever had problems with her skin, but that's what spurred her investigation into clean beauty. Creating clean and effective beauty products is extremely hard to do, but Scarlett has done it beautifully with the outset. I asked Scarlett about being an entrepreneur and what her routine looks like. We also talked about our marriages and what we've learned about ourselves from our relationships over the years. And of course, we reminisced about movie sets and our Avengers family.

3:47So let's get to my conversation with Scarlett Johansson.

3:53Do you remember when we first met? Because I can't remember. Do you remember? When we first met? Yeah. The very first time? Yeah. It was before we did Iron Man we must have met. Don't you think so? I feel like it had to be, but I was sitting at my desk this morning thinking, when did I meet Scarlett Johansson? Because I was in New York most of the time. I mean, at that time, up until maybe a couple years before that, I was mostly here. So I don't remember seeing you in the city. Well, you know what I what I realized today when I was going through my research that you were in sophistry with my with Ethan Hawke, who's an old pal and Jonathan Mark Sherman wrote it.

4:36And he's like one of my closest friends. that's so funny I couldn't believe it I had one line in that play it was the first thing I ever did I think I was eight oh my god seven or eight it was very surreal having to be there every night to deliver this one line and they didn't normally let me take the curtain because it was like too late so they needed to get me out of there and I think once or twice they let me take the curtain It was such a fun experience and so weird. I remember I had my own little like room, you know, and it's funny now when you're on set and there's either kid actors, especially if you're doing a play and there's kid actors.

5:15It's like those kids are having a completely whole other life and experience. And you know that when they grow up, they're going to be, they're going to have these strange sort of flashbacks as to what that experience was like, but it won't have, you know, perspective to see the reality of it. I think. I mean, it's weird when I think about you acting as a kid. I think in general, acting as a kid must be so surreal for a kid. I mean, being a kid seems surreal, but I think back on any moment, it's like a trip. But when did you start like really working as a kid? How old were you? I started working at that time doing sophistry.

5:56I booked that job. and then right after that I booked a movie that Rob Reiner directed called North my parents and it were John Ritter and Faith Ford okay incredible it's so funny and I worked on that for like a couple weeks and I kind of kept working like that and then I then I started making longer you know booking like longer jobs and stuff but yeah how old were you when you did Lost in Translation I was 17 oh my god no I didn't know you were that young I was so young yeah that's crazy. It was a long, yeah, it was, it was crazy. It was, I love that movie. Yeah. It's, it's funny because when we, when we were making it, you know, the script was like 75 pages or something like that.

6:41I think Sophia knew what she wanted it to be, but it wasn't totally clear, you know, to me exactly what it was. And I don't know that Bill really knew either. I think it was a tough time probably for I mean I saw him later years later and I very weirdly I didn't see him for a long time I it was that was a very hard shoot for me for a lot of different reasons but I was also young and you know it was it was tough and when we did all the press and everything for it it was also it was strange I felt kind of isolated from the experience that he and Sophia were having it was a lot to kind of process anyway I didn't see him for a decade or more and then I was yeah it was a long time.

7:24Then I walked into a bar with my ex boyfriend, boyfriend from a long time ago. And he, I walked in and there was only one person in the bar and it was Bill Murray. It was so weird. It was so weird. And I just, I, I walked in and I saw him sitting there, nobody else there, like just a bar. And I was like, you know, Oh my God. I like had to walk out. I was like, Oh my God, it's Bill. I haven't seen him in so long. It'd been a decade of time more than a decade of time. I was like, all right, I guess I'll have to go and see what's up. I mean, it was such a weird moment. It was like a dream. And then I went in there and he was also surprised.

8:08You know, we actually, it was kind of therapeutic. We sort of talked through that time. I think it was hard for him too, because he had a lot of stuff going on with his family and his marriage. And it was like, he was also not totally knowing what we were doing out there in Tokyo over those weeks. And it was, you know, I think his way of coping was being really sort of manic in this way. And it was, yeah, we kind of made this, I don't know. It was sort of, there was a kind of, it was a nice, yeah, we had a cathartic experience in that weird bar. And then luckily it filled. when I look back on movies that I've done, like there have been movies that I've done that have happened in really, really, really difficult times of my life.

8:53And like, I probably wasn't my absolute best self, you know, during like the talented Mr. Ripley, when my father and grandfather both were diagnosed with cancer or like, you know, some other movie where I had a bad breakup and And you're there and you have to be so vulnerable and exposed so much. And then to have the hangover of like, oh, I'm not sure I was my best self on that movie. I know what's so tough about it. I've had also stressful life stuff like that happen while I was working. And of course, you have no choice. You have to go and do your job and perform and show up at 6 a.m. and have your hair and makeup and all your life is personal.

9:34life is very fragile and, you know, then you have to check it or use it or whatever. And, and then, you know, you kind of come out of it. And the thing, when I was younger, I would be worried, Oh God, like, did I, am I ever going to work again? You know, did I leave a bad impression on these people because I, or am I difficult? You know, whatever it was because you had your life happening and you have to turn it on and you have to just keep going. It's relentless kind of, you know, in a way, but that, of course it's always that fear. I think as an actor where you think, Oh, I'm not going to work again after this.

10:16Doesn't everybody feel that every time anyway? It's just like, you never know what's coming until of course you get like success at your level or, you know, where it's like, okay, now you have real agency and you can get things made and which is fantastic. But like until that point, it's like, okay, I hope I'm going to get another job. Totally. And even the idea that you could get something made to me is it's still a certain pressure because you don't, And that also is a, that is a burden. I mean, it's wonderful. It's a gift, but I want to be able to not take it for granted, not take advantage of it in a way that feels icky, you know, and, and have, and still deliver stuff that is, you know, that you hope people like, and, and also know that if something's not right and you need to move on from it or whatever, that also has like a trickle down effect.

11:10I'd say it wasn't until I had, until my daughter was a little bit older that I realized, oh, I'll, if I leave, you know, for whatever reason, like I've put in enough time here that I can come back and there'll still be stuff here. There'll still be a job for me, you know? Yeah, totally. but yeah especially like you've achieved so much you know from the like box office metrics and also from the good movie metrics like you've done so many great movies and when I was looking back like her that movie with Locke which is now so crazy the AI like how weird that that's going to be our life now and like the next six months, but, and Jojo rabbit, you were so good and marriage story.

12:00Like you've done all these incredible roles. And then you also had, you know, it says in Wikipedia, you were the highest paid actress of all time and whatever. I mean, that's fucking cool. That's baller. I love that. Like it's such a good combo. It's, it's, it's, it's, yeah. I mean, it's been, I think honestly, I really, I really, really love my job. I find it very interesting. And I, I like, I, I mean, it sounds like I'm such a corner, but like, I really love acting. I love working with actors, directors. I like the whole, you know, corny mess of it and the trust exercises, all that like embarrassing stuff I love that stuff yeah it's it's it's great and I think it keeps it going because you know you no matter then whatever you're doing if you're doing all of like the stuff that we've done together which is you know kind of a small movies and these big movies or whatever you try to make moments that are special in these big things and you're you do that so so well you bring a whole weight and gravity and to the all that big stuff and make it real it's so funny i was talking about that the other day we were talking i don't know why we were talking about iron man i was whatever the whole trajectory of how that went how the beginning of marvel was and there was everything about it was so uncertain except you you were the at least from the outside perspective looking at that movie it was like the the the ip was like we don't know like obviously you know robert was it it was a you know a big we didn't know we didn't know we didn't know what it was going to be obviously we knew he's a great actor but it was it was a big swing and then you know favreau doing this big thing you know whatever all the pieces but you you were the piece that was the for sure bet you know it's so hilarious it's so true though it's so true and you delivered so well in it that I think it gave it oh my god certain but it makes it gave it that thing I'm talking about where you can have this small thing inside a big thing and the small thing inside the big thing is what makes it feel that actually gives it the reason to be, you know?

14:36I get so many headaches every month. It could be chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox, on a botulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those who have 14 or fewer headache days a month. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Allerge your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk.

15:07Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. Whenever I do an Ask Me Anything, which is something on Instagram, which you don't know about, and I'm going to circle back to this, by the way, because I need to understand how your team lets you get away with not having social media, but like people ask me, is it true that you and Scarlett Johansson didn't get along on I Amman?

16:00Yes. Is that a rumor? I guess so. You were so nice to me on that movie. I was so petrified. You were so nice to me. You could have been awful. I had no idea. I was so out of my comfort zone on that movie. I'd never done anything like that before. Plus you guys had established like deep friendship. We were so psyched you were there. And I was so happy to have another woman around. I know you kept you're like, thank God. But then later on, I experienced that too, because when I did Avengers, I also was like one of the few, there's like me and Kobe and she, whenever we worked together, I know it was like a sausage party.

16:43Totally. But you've been good in that world though. You're very like, you kind of, I wouldn't describe you as one of the boys, but it was, you guys all get along so well. Yes. And I love them. And Robert stayed like one of my best friends and, and I still love John and see him. It was, it was a great time. It was like fun to be in something that resonated so deeply with people culturally and people love it so much. And I had never been in like that kind of a blockbuster franchise thing either. So it was totally new for me, but then you went on and did like all of those huge. So what was that like?

17:22I mean, having come from, you know, theater and independent film and like, how did you, and then did you kind of toggled back and forth between the big and the small like tell me more about all that i was lucky though because we had the cast came together so well for avengers that everybody was kind of having the same shared experience i mean other than sam jackson who's been in like every big movie ever made i mean all of those all of the other actors like you know renner or ruffalo i mean those guys they were i mean even hemsworth i don't think he'd really done that much before that so everybody was kind of in the same boat a little bit right and it felt very much like when we were making avengers i think all of us thought either this is going to be like i think people could like it it also on paper seems terrible this is so not i how does this work you know i mean they don't even give you the script so like you don't even know what i mean when i i had no idea when i would They didn't give you the entire script of what?

18:34Iron Man 2? You must have had that. You're in it like a whole bunch. Iron Man 2, Iron Man 1, 2, and 3. I got the whole script. But in the Avengers, I think I'm in the Avengers. I did not get the script. It wouldn't have made sense to you anyway if you got the script. Exactly. But was it fun to be such a badass superhero? Did you like that? Yeah, it was awesome. It was like the best time ever. I mean, doing Avengers was so much fun. I was like 26 years old. I was single. It was fun. I was like, you know, you have no, when you don't have like, I didn't have any responsibility to do, you know, to anybody, but just, just to enjoy yourself.

19:17And, you know, I worked when we did Black Widow, I worked with Florence Pugh and she at the time was like 22 or 23. And I felt so excited for her. I know what that feels like. you know, this big thing that's coming out and everything else is buzzing around you. And you're also like, you know, young and energetic and beautiful and talented. And she's in the middle of it right now. I felt like that then, you know, I felt like there was all this exciting stuff happening and I got to work with, you know, all these great actors and a lot of New York guys too that I knew from whatever, all sort of the same group and just was really, really fun.

19:56And then And every couple of years we would go back and, and do it again and all be in different places in our lives. Like somebody would have a kid or was getting married or divorced or remarried or whatever. And it just like, it was a kind of, I don't know, like a adult summer camp thing, you know? And it was, it was cool. It was really, really like some of the best experiences. That's so great. And are you done with those? I'm done. You're done. I'm done. I'm hanging chapters over. Yeah. I really felt like I, I kind of did all that I had to do. You know, I never, I also coming back and playing a character again and again, like that is over a decade of time is such a unique experience.

20:45Well, that's Kevin Feige. He's very good at all that, right? He is. He's fantastic at it. He's really, he's such a lover of cinema storytelling he he really is a fan I know it's sweet and it's nice to create from that place I think it's it's special because the excitement it's like he's he's always bubbling with the excitement he loves it he's such a fan he gets so psyched you know if I ever talking to him about something whatever an idea or project or even something like we both are like huge Disney world nerds and we talk about whatever's going on at the parks and stuff like that he's what is his title so people know we give people some context who are listening to this does he run Marvel is he the creator he's the president or what is he the CEO I don't know he's our boss man wait so are you does that mean you're also done with Marvel I think so I mean I didn't die So I guess they can always, I think you're, I think you may come back at some point.

21:51Really? As 64 year old pepper pots. How great. Great. 100 % that's happening. Oh my God. I can see it. They're never going to let you go. Oh my God. Break out that wig, baby. That red wig. I'll tell you. Did you have to dye your hair red ever? Or you just wore a wig the whole time? No. I wore a wig the whole time. That was smart. Did you? Not the whole time. No, I wore, I did have to dye. I dyed my hair for a couple of them or a few of them. And then it was, it was, I couldn't do it anymore. It was just, and then I, of course I look at people like you and I was like, I'm such an idiot. Cause I couldn't tell you, you're phenomenal.

22:36It depended on the day. Sometimes I was like egghead. Then John Favreau would tease me when he thought it looked bad. I just did a movie with Channing Tatum and my car. I wear a wig. It's a 1968. I have this like whole bouffant thing. I'd be like, just minding my own business, like staring off and he'd come behind me and stick his finger like in between my neck. And I was like, Oh God, I hate you. I hate you. I was like, you're so mean. That's so frat boy. It's so frat boys. Okay. I really want to ask you about your business, which I love. I'm a fan of, we sell the outset on goop. It's beautiful product.

23:16Thank you. Thank you for letting us sell it. We love it. The whole team. It's been wonderful. So I remember when you, when we were doing Ironman too, and you were brainstorming goop. And I remember Jon Favreau saying, you know, this is exactly what she's meant to do. She's like the con, we call her like the concierge or whatever because you had that's how you lived your life it was like you the best wherever in you know best tagine in morocco and the best you know rio con in kyoto whatever and it was you get all the tips from you and then it just has become so um it's so big and and so but it's maintained the integrity of from the very beginning what you set out to do which is amazing like you really did it you're making me black it's true you this is about you okay all right well i'm just saying i remember that that time i remember that you were it was like you were figuring out little segments of it how to do certain like cooking pieces how what it was going to be and now it's just it's it's really really cool so thank you why does every recipe i try need 18 ingredients including a jar of something paste i'll never use again but will sit in my fridge for nine months.

24:35I just want dinner in the oven fast. That's why I love Blue Apron's new one pan assemble and bake meals. They send you fresh ingredients that are already chopped. All you do is put it all together and bake. That's it. No chopping, no weird leftovers, just delicious, easy to make meals. Get 20 % off your first two orders with code APRON20. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com slash terms for more. So tell me about, tell me, speaking in Marvel Cinematic Universe terms, tell me about the origin story of the outset. Like, did someone come to you? Was it like just a net new idea, like brain-turning, like how did it happen?

25:15Well, firstly, I have been obsessed with skincare and self-care forever since I was a teenager, because when I was a teenager, I had like adolescent acne and I was working, you know, and just thought, okay, I'll grow out of this acne eventually. And then I never did. I had adult acne. and at the time I think the story was very much about you know that acne was like dirty and you had to clean your skin it was like how to get a fresh face and cleanse your skin and so I and that was just part of the kind of beauty story at that time and so I was using forever and ever so I mean And every kind of like stripping, drying, exfoliating cream, like from dermatologists, all those drying creams, it was just like everything you could do to like dry up your system, which I would go through these cycles of having acne and then it would dry.

26:23And then I'd have these other breakouts or like move all around my face. It was just, I mean, I don't know if you've ever struggled with acne, but it's just, especially doing, you know, being in the hair and makeup chair at five 30 in the morning with like this raw face and like counting on people to fix their complexion, you know, is so it's a, it's, it was so frustrating and such a source of like anxiety. And to be honest, it was depressing anyway, because of that, I just was fascinated with skincare. And at some point, actually, when I was pregnant with my daughter, I was like, I can't take it anymore.

27:01I'm some, my makeup artist at the time was like, now you get wrinkles and acne. And I was like, but it was like, I got to, the only thing that I hadn't tried was I was terrified of using moisturizer. I was terrified of anything that had oil and moisturizer, anything like that, because of a decade long experience with, you know, this cleansing and drying and not knowing anything else. And so my last resort was I've had been a particularly bad bout. I was like, I'm going to get rid of all this drying stuff. I'm just going to try. What if I just exfoliate gently just to get rid of the dead skin cells?

27:39And I just use like a real moisturizer, not an oil-free moisturizer, but like a simple fragrance, you have a sensitive skin, whatever, and try a day and night cream and see like, I don't know, it can't get any worse. And actually within a week, it was, my skin was better than it had been in a decade of time. And so I stuck so religiously to this routine of just using like a drugstore brand and like a little French pharmacy one and, you know, things like that. And at some point I, you know, I was like, I, I think there's a way to elevate this, that it feels like a uniform kind of, you know, essential system that has, you know, is, is transparent and affordable and like looks nice on your counter.

28:28And it's like, everybody can use it. And I'm not a dermatologist. Like I don't, you know, if I have a problem with my skin, I go to the dermatologist, but I'm, I, I just wanted like a baseline of stuff, you know, to use daily. And so I, you know, I told a couple of friends of mine that I wanted to do this and they were, they were like, great. You should, you know more about skincare than anybody. Like I I need your products. And then I started going down the, you know, kind of pipeline of dipping my toe into this, into the beauty industry. And, you know, three years of doing that. And it was like, I don't want to compromise.

29:03I don't want to license my name. I don't want to white label something, you know, I was doing product development. And good for you. Yeah, it was, it was really the right way. It felt like it for me anyway, like it felt like the right thing for me. because I really wanted to make something that I felt like could live beyond my endorsement of, you know, that stood on its own. And so at that point, I also wanted to understand, do I belong here? Like, is there a reason? Do people need this? Is there a reason for it? I felt there was a space for it. And so I talked to a friend of mine, because I realized I was like, I need my producing partner, you know, I need somebody who is going to be like a bouncing board who can and developed this with me and has like a similar philosophy about stuff.

29:50And I met my partner, Kate Foster, through a friend of mine who works for a VC company, but he did a bunch of beauty startups and stuff. And he said, I know this woman, Kate Foster. She's, you know, worked for 15 years in the industry. She's doing other stuff. Maybe you guys would be like-minded. I think you would get along. And we met and like had a date. And instantly I was, I just really liked her. I really thought she was funny. which is really important for me. I just found her to be really funny and really kind of self-deprecating in a really great way. And she was, she was curious, which I thought was a great place to start.

30:27And so that's how we started. And then like two months later, COVID shut everything down. It was like, we had it. I remember we had a lunch at this place called Flora bar that was at the Met Brewer here. And we had like, you know, lunchtime cocktails and whatever. And it was like, what is, do you think like spring break is going to be affected? Like it was such a, you know, what is this thing? And then three days later it was, you know, it was so surreal. So she and I immediately was like, you know, want to have like a video chat zoom or whatever it was. I don't even know if it was zoom yet. And so we got on and we had to really know we wanted to do this because doing it through COVID was really challenging, but it kind of was great because it, it cleared a lot of space to work on it.