Kelly Rutherford

0:02Thanks for tuning in to today's podcast made possible by our friends at Cartier. I've always loved the way that jewelry can tell a story across time. With Cartier, that story often begins with the panther. First appearing as a spotted motif on a watch in 1914, it's become one of the maison's most endured symbols. It was reimagined in 1935 by Cartier's visionary creative director, Jeanne Toussaint, who brought the panther to life in three dimensions for the first time. Bold, magnetic, powerful, she turned it into something iconic. The newest Pontère du Cartier creations continue that lineage. Two panthers, face-to-face, sculptural yet flexible, channel an alluring intensity.

0:54They feel timeless, and yet alive in the present moment. That's the magic of Cartier. the craftsmanship the history and the way these pieces invite you to imagine your own story within them shop the latest ponter creations on cartier.com

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2:28When you are pioneering anything or introducing new ideas to the culture, you get criticized. You do? Yeah. Did you hear about that? I didn't find the one. I found someone I respected and we made it the one. In a sort of longing kind of view of love, people understand each other as if by magic. Nothing in itself is addictive on the one hand. On the other hand, everything could be addictive if there's an emptiness in that person that needs to be filled. I now know that nobody changes until they change their energy. And when you change your energy, you change your life. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow. This is the Goop Podcast.

3:07Bringing together thought leaders, culture changers, creatives, founders and CEOs, scientists, doctors, healers and seekers. Here to start conversations. because simply asking questions and listening has the power to change the way we see the world. Here we go. Welcome to the Goop Podcast. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow and today I'm sitting down with one of the most beloved television matriarchs of the Upper East Side, an icon of style, resilience, and grace. From reinvention to the beauty of allowing yourself to not be okay, we talk about how she's found strength and gratitude through life's hardest transitions.

3:47Kelly Rutherford.

3:51Hi. Hi. Thanks so much for joining. Thank you. Thanks for having me. So you're in New York for fashion week, which is fitting because you're a fashion icon. You sort of, it's funny how now I think we're all supposed to be like these multi-hyphenate things, but I want to start with the fashion piece because I'm a fashion lover and admirer. on. I don't know about that. So, you know, the sort of art of expressing yourself sartorially, I really relate to. And I had this, I have a makeup artist I work with, who, you know, she, I was like, I don't do makeup. And I don't know how to do it. And she always comes with makeup.

4:36And she's like, that's how I express myself. And I was like, that's so interesting. And she's like, well, you express yourself through clothing. And I had never really thought about that. So tell me about your relationship to fashion and how you started to express yourself through clothing or did you grow up loving it or what was that? How did that start? Yeah. My mom was a model. So when I was growing up and she was very, she's very chic and her friends, super chic, like old school chic, you know? And so I think I always loved her style. And then I loved magazines. I used to make vision boards and collages and I just loved putting images together, whether it was from home or places or clothes or, you know, just, I think that's part of acting too, is you're building these worlds that you want to live in, you know, you're kind of creating these.

5:29And when you're young, you're thinking, well, this is, you know, you don't know. So you're creating worlds that you want to live in. And I think so that's, that's how it started. Right. At a young age, like at 15, were you? Yeah, like as a teenager. Yeah. Yeah. And you were in Kentucky at this point? No, I was in California, Yeah, living on Balboa Island. Oh, for some reason. Were you from Kentucky? I was born in Kentucky. Okay. But we moved when I was a baby. So was California kind of part of your style? Yeah, I think so. I think I've always leaned a bit more East Coast in terms of my style. But I love, I mean, growing up in California and, you know, kind of a beach place.

6:04Yes. You have a little bit of that too. Yeah. That naturalness. So did I because I went back and forth as a kid between Santa Monica and New York City. And so I think I always kind of dance between the two. Yeah, it's a perfect balance. Yeah, it is a good balance. So you started acting when you were how old? I moved to Newark when I was 17 to study acting. From LA. Is it right that you started in a soap opera? No. I started on, well, yeah. Well, my first thing I did was a commercial with Matt LeBlanc. Oh, wow. Called Mother's Cookies Ice Cream. Fantastic. And then I did like a Johnson & Johnson commercial.

6:40so they kind of started doing that and then yeah and then loving yes with luke perry right right that's right was my first yeah so which was a sign of things to come with luke perry exactly exactly and so you were working in new york doing commercials and then soaps are in new york too right yeah i just was you know supporting myself so i was acting and and going on auditions and i was doing a little modeling commercials you know whatever i was making it make it happen yeah so I was in New York for about two years. Then I got home sick. And also my teacher at that time, you know, said, you know, I said, should I stay and do theater?

7:18And he was like, no, you're young. You're a woman. Go to L.A. and start working. You can always come back and do theater, which I thought was really interesting advice. Strike while the iron's hot. Yeah. So that's what I did. And then, so you were on Melrose Place, which was a hugely iconic show. What was it like to kind of step into that world when it was established? And how was the cast? It was so fun because it was already really successful when I joined. So it was a really cool thing. It was super exciting. Marsha Cross and I were already friends before. So it was really fun to work with her.

7:55And yeah, it was such an exciting time. We did, I think, 30-something episodes a season. So we did these double ups where we do two episodes at one time. So it was like boot camp. But it was good boot camp. It was really fun. Are you still friends with anyone from the show? Yeah. Lisa Renna I see sometimes and Marcia I see sometimes, you know, here and there. The 90s, I think it was a kind of a special time. I mean, maybe I'm just nostalgic. But, you know, when I look back and I think about the shows that were made and the clothes and I always think of like that's... I think of you, honestly. Oh, my goodness.

8:35so you know i lived in england for a long time and when i was there i missed like a whole bunch of tv shows because which probably isn't a bad thing well you never know it sort of left me in a cultural vacuum because there were all these shows that came out and at the time it would always premiere a year later right in england okay so people would be like oh have you seen you know lost in 24 and i was like no i don't know what you're talking about and gossip girl was one of those shows okay so i've never seen gossip girl okay and i think also because it was purportedly based on like spence the school that i went to that's right and kind of the girls that i grew up with so is that is that is that right that it was oh i'd be so interested to see what you think of it especially because that's your world that's the world you grew up in yeah Like apparently it was, you know, kids hanging out on the steps of the Met.

9:36Like that's what we used to do. Dressed really cute. And like, yeah, no, I know. Because I lived on the Upper East Side the whole time we were filming. And I remember seeing all the kids coming in at other schools. How was it growing up on the Upper East Side? I mean. It was great. I mean, it was, you know, New York was a different place then. Very different. It was, there were real kind of neighbors. It was like pre-full gentrification of, you know, everything kind of below the, or, you know, park, what park starting. And, you know, where the meatpacking was like cows hanging. It was still meat, yeah.

10:09You know, and there was a lot of, it was a little bit more, I would say, gritty then, but it was very alive. and I think all the way through the 90s you know what I loved about it then which I think it misses now is that in those days all the kids who were coming here to try to do whatever you know live their New York dream could afford to live in Manhattan so it's this incredible mix of artists and dreamers and people and you know it was like and all the even the finance kids like we were all kind of in it together and could afford to be in New York City or share apartments. Yeah, yeah. And I don't think that's the case now.

10:53And I think it changes the tenor of a place. For sure. Yeah. I want to bring the artists back. Yeah, that's true. Seriously. But you live in Monaco now, right? I live between, yeah, Monaco and the US, obviously. My family's still here. I'm still here, but I'm mostly there. I mean, I've been going there for a very long time, but, you know, kind of loosely based there for a few years because my children's father was a resident of Monaco. Okay. So that's how I ended up starting to go there. We're not going to go too heavily into this, but just from the perspective, obviously there was, you know, in the news over the past, you had this custody situation, which when I was researching, you know, I, You feel like your heart is ripped out of your body like as a mother just reading what you went through.

11:46I can't imagine how you survived that. How did you kind of build that internal fortitude to get through it? And how did you keep your perspective? I don't think I always did. but like anything I think that is a challenge that you're unprepared for or you've never had before right you you you just navigate it the best you can and you learn along the way you make mistakes you you don't know how to navigate it so every day you get up and and do the best and some days you navigate it well and some days you don't you know I think it's a process of like most things it's focus and you know when you can get past it's kind of like the world today we're bombarded with so much information it's like how do you even focus how do you go within yourself and get quiet enough and take the time to prioritize what needs your attention and so that was a big process for me was how to how to focus on what was important to me during a time that was so crazy when there were so many other things going on around it.

12:59Right. Yeah. And how, what is like, if there's like searing pain, you know, like being separated from your children, how would you sort of get through the day on set? Did you have tools? Did you? I was so thankful that I had to be on set, to be honest, because it was such a good distraction. I mean, otherwise I don't know what I would have done, honestly. I think it was a blessing in a way because I had to focus. I had to show up. I mean, you know what that's like. It doesn't matter if you have pneumonia, if you're going through a divorce, it doesn't matter what's going on in your life. You have to show up and, you know.

13:35So, yeah, it was actually, I was thankful and everyone was so incredibly supportive. And I think you know this as an actress that, you know, you, you, so many things in life happen. And, you know, whether it's when we're young or when we're older, we're going through divorce you you know lose somebody in your life it doesn't you know and it's like how do you heal how do you deal with these things you just deal with it day by day yeah and you do the best you can and you you and also you learn you know you learn about yourself you learn deeply yeah about your choices you learn about you know what how the world is a little bit more maybe in ways that you were naive about the world yeah

14:22I've always loved the way that jewelry can tell a story across time. With Cartier, that story often begins with the panther. First appearing as a spotted motif on a watch in 1914, it's become one of the maison's most endured symbols. It was reimagined in 1935 by Cartier's visionary creative director, Jeanne Toussaint, who brought the panther to life in three dimensions for the first time. Bold, magnetic, powerful, she turned it into something iconic. The newest Panthère du Cartier creations continue that lineage. Two panthers, face-to-face, sculptural yet flexible, channel an alluring intensity.

15:07They feel timeless and yet alive in the present moment. That's the magic of Cartier. The craftsmanship, the history, and the way these pieces invite you to imagine your own story within them. Shop the latest Ponter creations on cartier.com.

15:31When I travel, whether it's for work or just to take a break, I love staying in an Airbnb. I love the charm and how every place feels so different from a hotel. It gives me a sense of feeling grounded wherever I am, whether it's a weekend away in the country or filming somewhere far from home. There's something about waking up in a real home with a kitchen to make coffee in and a living room to spread out in. And whenever I'm in an Airbnb, I find myself thinking about the person whose home it is. While I'm making it mine for a few days, maybe they're off on their own adventure or simply opening their doors for someone else to enjoy the space they love.

16:10That's what I love about Airbnb. You already have the space. Why not let it offer something to someone else and let it work for you? Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host.

16:29I, when my, my father died kind of suddenly when I was 30 and about two weeks later, I was on the set of a film and luckily I was playing Sylvia Plath so oh my god my depression definitely aided me in my work but if I had had to do something where I wasn't letting myself be I'm completely swallowed in pain there's just no way I could have I don't think I could have done it. Like I, I think the using the art to sort of get me through. And I think that that's something that I've done. I think a lot in my life is like, we all have go through shit and pain and trauma of our own kinds. And like, that was the thing about being an artist.

17:20I mean, I do it, I barely do it now. But about being an actor that I think was really healthy for me, it was sort of like to transmute the human experience and my own pain and sort of like mix it around in there you know like in a centrifuge and then like have it come out in part it's like an alchemy yeah yeah it really is i think it's so important going forward in our lives to the role you realize the role of an artist and we need this kind of renaissance i think the world needs a renaissance right now of, you know, I mean, the soul and art and expression and ways to express this. I just did the forward on a book called How to Cry.

18:01And when she first sent it to me, I was like, what? I was like, I don't know. I don't know if I'm really the person for this. And then I read it and it was really a lot about breath work. And it was about really going within and allowing yourself to feel because so much of the day we like, Like we have to show up for work. We have to show up for our kids. We have to show up, you know, in society in a certain way. And so it's, you know, but it is important for our health and well-being to be able to sit and have a good cry. You know, I mean, I remember the 90s. We kind of could. I don't know. Maybe then I felt like it was okay.

18:37It was still okay to kind of sit in the bathtub with a cigarette and have a good cry or like whatever. It was like healthy. It was normal. So, you know, anyway, I think it's important that we remember that we're human and remember our humanity, you know. Do you think that that's changed over the course of the past years because, you know, we've become so presentational as a society and like we're supposed to be all these things on social media and it's sort of divorcing us from our feelings? Yeah. I mean, I think we all feel like I think a lot of it's all the labels. You know, I think I always think of just being label-less.

19:16You know, if there are no labels, you know, your identity is not connected to all these things. Who are you and what are you here to do? And that's, I think, a lot today is always. But, you know, like you, you've sort of broken down all those walls of how people see an actress or somebody who grew up in the business. or you know you're just like and you know i know you've dealt with a lot sometimes of people saying things you know publicly like because they i think we all like structure and what's comfortable and when people are doing things that are not comfortable yeah you know but the whole idea is to to be limitless and and infinite and if you look at nature you look at the sky you look at the ocean, from what we know, it's quite vast.

20:11So, you know, I think our consciousness is too. So, yeah. Yeah. I think that's a really interesting point around, you know, that axis of like structure and yet limitlessness and how I think that that's a really interesting point, you know, we do, I think, need structure to feel safe and to feel like we build structure and our purpose dovetails into our structure and our routines and make us feel like there's safety in it. What we attract, yeah. But then I think to not have to define yourself at the same time sounds like a really interesting practice. Yeah. I don't know. I think it helps us just get in touch with who we really are aside from all those things, you know.

21:09Who are you really? Exactly. Who's asking? Yeah. Right? But yeah, I think it just, it liberates us a bit, you know, and it keeps us from having to just live up to this one thing or do this one dance our whole life, right? Yeah. Because we're here to do many things, you know, and teachers come in many forms, you know, people, we learn in different ways from different people, from the good and the bad, right? What are the ways in which you feel you learn your lessons most easily? I look at my part in them. And I sort of say, okay, if I'm not blaming, and I'm not the victim, which, you know, it's nice to have a little pity party first and get it out.

21:51Back to crying in the bathtub. Okay, pity party's done. Let's get back to work here. And say, you know, how did I set this up? or how did my upbringing or how do my thoughts and where I'm living contribute? And then it helps, you know, going forward. Right. So accountability. Yeah, exactly. I think it's absolutely critical, pivotal to have accountability and also very, very hard, right? Is this like this, I think in our culture right now, like real vulnerability is hard and like that, And vulnerability and accountability are like they hold each other's hands. Well, it's like you said, I believe it's the structure you're talking about, you know, of it's accountability and all of that is the structure.

22:41Then you can be more liberated and free, you know, in terms of your expression. Yeah. So in all, so like when hardships happen to you, do you go straight to what is my part in this? like are you no I mean I think you have to feel everything you know I think you have to have a good cry you have to feel it and you can you know whether you write it out it's like you know just get it out right I mean I love the artist's way for that you know that Julia Cameron book the because the morning pages of just getting stuff out you know we carry so many things around to do that in my 20s right I just got my son the book it's so cool it's great I read that book when I was probably like 22 and I used to wake up every morning and do that such a good one and Shakti Gawain's The Creative Visualization.

23:28It's another really good one from like years around that same time. It's about visualizing, creating. It's kind of what all these people are talking about in terms of how we create worlds, you know? How about you? How do you do it? You do so much And you're so centered. Oh my gosh. Not always, but I try to just do one thing at a time. Sometimes I get very overwhelmed, but less easily now. Like I used to get overwhelmed more quickly, but I still struggle when, because I'm doing so much, I struggle if there's a lot of friction and all the things that are trying to get done. Yeah. But I think I have a great sort of ambition to really understand as much as I can about myself and why I'm here and about other people.

24:28Like I have such a deep curiosity about how other people work and what parts of them I can see myself in. And so I think that was part of my acting and I think it's part of what we do at Goop as well. It's like a pushing forward into what's next, what's coming around the corner. And I'm not sure how I do it all, all the time. It's purpose. Sounds like it's purpose. It's purpose, which I think I'm still trying to articulate exactly what my purpose is. You know, I think maybe sometimes I think I won't know until I'm on my deathbed, you know. Do you have a sense of purpose? Do you think now? Do you know what your purpose is?

25:12Well, it's interesting because something you just said makes so much sense to me, which is why we do what we do, trying to understand why we do what we do. Absolutely. I think that's what you're saying. And that's definitely, I think, what draws us to acting in that whole world of, you know, if you study humanity, I think as a kid, I studied people. I would sit and watch them. And why did they make that choice? Why are they in that relationship? Why are they wearing that outfit? Why do they talk like that? You know, there's just all these questions about humanity. And if you're sensitive and you're aware, you know.

25:47But I think sometimes the purpose is staying in our heart. I think it's like keeping love in your heart is a purpose in its own way, right? Just staying there because there's so many things that, and even in business or even in, you know what I mean, as a parent. and all of these aspects. Yeah. So I don't know. Hard to do all day every day. No, you can't. I mean, you're not supposed to do everything all the same all day. I think we're in an interactive universe, and it's constantly depending on what we're creating as well. Yeah. How do you do that if there's acute acrimony or, you know, like if you're, you know, I don't know, your ex or, you know, like how, what's the trick to keeping love in your heart?

26:46I think it's just, it's really key. It's just the focus. It's really about staying, you know, focused on the goal. Like for me with my kids, it was like, how do I have healthy kids through this? How do I do that? And I don't know. I mean, I, you know, I've apologized many times for losing it and being like a mess, you know, but I think the difference is I apologize and I say, look, I'm a mess. And this is why, and I love you. And I'm here. I'm showing up even if I'm a mess. And I think that's, they respect that. And I think they, they know you're human. They know you're not some robot, you know, you're, and I, hopefully it helps them realize how to deal with things.

27:27It shows them, okay, this is how my parents are navigating the world. So I'm learning. Just like, you know, if you have parents that, you know, I have friends that their parents smoked a lot when they were growing up, smoked cigarettes, and so they hate smoking. You know, so it can work either way, right? So they learn from us the good and the bad, right? Yeah, absolutely. But I think just show up with all of your, the good and the bad, and to realize that we aren't all going to have it together all the time. Yeah, and make the repair. But we're working on it. You're showing up. You're still learning.