Kim Kardashian on Motherhood, Marriage, and Managing It All

27:01because the truth of the matter is if you're really deeply coupled up with someone, like you're making sacrifices, you're putting them first, you're going places they want to go, you know, there's a give and take and they're doing the same for you, right? So it's beautiful and you're creating like this third entity together, but you lose the ability to fully operate like on a solo mission. Yeah. I'm on a good solo mission right now. And I have my, I have like either sisters or friends that were all in the same place and that feels so good and fun. And I'm going to soak up every minute of it. And I'm, I feel like I'm just in a really good place.

27:44That's so good. I've always been in, like I'm, I'm the type of person that no matter what it is, I'm always in a good place. Like that's where I'm supposed to be at that time. So even if it seems challenging. Yeah, you're very sanguine like that. It's very cool. I've always been like that. Do you need like to have a flirt going on the side, like a text? Kind of. Yeah. That's like about romantics. I always was like that too. Yeah. Yeah, I do. That's okay. That's good. That'll get you through a cold winter. Yeah, totally. Totally. Can I ask you about something about your kids? because I've, you know, in this age of social media, my kids, like our kids, they're probably same generation, but mine are on the older end, obviously.

28:31And I've always been like really freaked out about social media and like showing them in the public and them being on social media getting, so like, A, how do you, how are you comfortable, like, you're comfortable with your kids in the, in public. Yeah. So how, what is your thinking around that? Like, you're, you're just like, this is their, this is their lot in life. And because I think I get so hung up on, like, wanting to protect their feelings. Protect them, yeah. And I feel like I haven't had a clear like feeling around how to do this and, you know, like would you let your kids be public on Instagram or are they?

29:22Or I mean, I don't even know. But like. So I think every family is different. Yeah. Even within my family, how Courtney operates, how Chloe operates, how Kylie can, like we always say every family is different. Right. So whether it's the snacks that we're allowed to eat or even those little things, right? Right. So with social media, it is hard because all of our cousins, all the cousins, my nieces and nephews, they're all best friends with my kids. So they're all the same ages. So if Penelope has a TikTok, North wants a TikTok and all the girls at school have a TikTok. However, I have made a rule with their dad about it.

29:58You know, he's not happy about that. I respect that. But it can only be on my phone. Okay. So not her own. Totally. And it's not something where she can scroll and look at things. Yeah, because that's my worry too is like what is the feedback that these kids are getting? And then on top of that, like if they're famous kids or their parents are famous, therefore, by proxy, they're like well-known kids. Like how will you protect them against all of that noise? Yeah, it's hard. I mean, we don't do comments because she's not scrolling on it. And she's the only kid that would be old enough to really be on it and have a phone.

30:38How old is she now? She's nine. Okay. So she really understands. But the way that she is so creative and the way that she loves to do TikTok and do these videos and she'll take my phone and she'll do skincare stuff and she'll do, she loves special effects makeup. So she'll be like doing these like scars and faces and bullet wounds and like she takes classes on it. And that's what she loves to do. So she loves to show it and she loves to just – it makes her so happy that she's so innocent in so many ways that if I give her this creative outlet and she just loves to do funny videos, I mean, she'll do makeup and do whole movies with her friends like how we used to do with like old, you know, VHSs and like – but she'll do them on a phone and upload it and then they'll edit it and they'll spend so much time adding music to it and special effects onto the – I don't even know how to do it with all these like Photoshopping, like iMovie kind of things where you can add the music into it.

31:42She's like the best director. Like she just loves to do this stuff. And so I let her – I take it as more of a creative thing. As long as it's age appropriate and they're having fun and it's so annoying because I just won't have my phone for so long because she'll take it and be doing that. So it's something that the cousins and all their friends love to do. They'll stay up all night long, all their friends, and just do these like silly fun. But why do they have to put it into the world, I guess? I don't even think they realize that because they're not seeing comments and they're not seeing really what's going on.

32:23I think it's almost as if they don't even discuss it at school with their friends. It's just something that they love to do. And if they're monitored, I'm okay with that. As far as, I think for a minute, we tried to have an Instagram on my phone for our dogs that she would do. Ran. And then she would like just take pictures of the dogs in like outfits and in different scenes. And that wasn't working for me. I was like, this is just too much access. Right, right. So that only lasted like two days. Right. And I found a groove with her TikTok as long as it's me and her together. Right. And I'm there.

33:00And that works for now. Supervising. It's a crazy world. I don't deny that. I guess just too, these kids are digitally native. This is here to stay. We can't wish that they were being raised in an era without social media. So I guess in a sense, it's good to understand it. It's good to understand what your personal boundaries are with it growing up, etc. But I also think they see that it's healthy that when I'm at home, I'm not on my phone the whole time. So it's not like I'm sitting there checking everything and seeing I posted something on Instagram and what my likes are. Like they're seeing my habits of being super present.

33:40So there'll be a week, two weeks where we'll go on a trip and they won't even have their phone the whole time.

33:54When you talk about your social media, do you, is there a strategy to that? It is so not intrinsic. Like it's so hard for me. And I know like have to do this to, for my business and it's really important. And it's like, and you're so good at that. like for, but I'm so bad at someone that doesn't want to put their whole life out there because I think you give enough and you give like, it's intriguing and people see it. I mean, we can judge all day long and I could say, oh my God, I would never post that. Or that's way too much. Or I cringe when people start, you know, fighting on the internet and all of that.

34:33And I've been in the middle of it, you know, where I'm just like, ah, you know, my number, like, just call me and I don't like that kind of stuff. But as far as like, to me, I look at Instagram like a magazine and I love posting what I think I would put in a magazine spread. That's a great lens. Like if I was an editor, but I have different moods. Sometimes I'll post vacation pics and then I'll say, oh my God, like that's way too much. I can't believe I've been posting so much in a bikini. I just don't want that. And then I won't do it for a while and then I'll say, oh, I miss that, you know? And is that part of the strategy?

35:11Like, like you're, you're the master obviously of social media. All, all of you guys are. So like, thank you. Do you think about? I think it evolves. I think it's just, to me, it shows like what my mood was. I don't like to delete things also. So I love to look back and see like where I was at even a year ago. And even down to like, there was a time when years ago when I love to put white borders around my pictures. To me, it's just more of like a creative visual outlet. Like I don't take it that seriously. So I'll post and I'll never check the comments because I'm not trying to see a reaction.

35:48I just want to put out what I want to put out. So I use them for different reasons. I just got into watching TikTok because I'm forced, because my daughter forces me to do like one or two every morning. You put it, you put something on TikTok? I don't even have freaking TikTok. It's humiliating. You shouldn't even go, look, she makes me do these dances, these things. It's like the raw me, every, like straight out of bed. Even if I don't want to do it, she forces me. But that's so interesting too, because that's like obviously a very organic thing. But then I'm sure there are people who are like analyzing, you know, what you're posting.

36:23Like, well, this is such great content because it's like the raw content. And then there's the bathing suit and the photo shoot or whatever. And it's like, but it obviously... And it's all different. And that's probably why it works so well. And there's – I mean, I remember there was a time when, you know, I started to really study law and I started to spend some time in the White House and people were like, are you going to – internally, are you going to stop posting like a bikini photo? Are you going to stop posting this? And I was like, absolutely not. Right. Like, I want to be me. It's just my form of expression to put whatever I want out there.

37:00And this is also, you combine archetypes, like you combine these female archetypes. And we talk about this a lot at Goop because historically women are held in one archetype. You can be maternal or you can be intellectual or you can be sexual or you can be, and it's like the amalgamation of those things and the challenge that's inherent in like passing the bar and wearing a bikini at the same time is so punk rock. Studying for the bar in a bikini. I'm sure there are like classes on like, you know, in universities about like Kardashian feminism and what does it mean? But I think it's really cool.

37:37I think it's really, really strong. Not even intentional. It's just this is who I am. I'll never be that. I mean, the fact that I got to take the bar in my pajamas because of the time when we were at home, like, oh my God, I'm so grateful, you know, for that experience. Not for COVID. No. I don't want anyone to take that the wrong way. But I'm grateful for that I can just, at the time that I'm doing this, these are the opportunities. And I just, I'm doing it my way. Yeah. And there's always a way to do, like if you want something bad enough, there's definitely a way to figure it out. And I had those conversations with my dad about how much I hated school and how he doesn't, you know, think that I'm going to sit there for years in law school.

38:26and it's like a big moment for me just inside to be like, I fucking did that. It's unbelievable. You know? Yeah. Like I can't believe it. Like I can't even – I hated school so much I was just not a school person. Yeah. But the things that I'm learning pertain to my real life so much that whether I'm learning about – you know, I'm taking like real property right now and the course. And it's like, yeah, of course, I'm leasing this house and this – like I know exactly the laws now. So great. Because at this phase in my life, it just like pertains to my life. Yeah. So it makes so much more sense. And I'm so happy I did school and went to law school the way that I am.

39:12So what is your – like you have all the things that you're working on right now. And again, the podcast is so, it's really great. I listened to it when I drive to Santa Barbara. It's on, it's become like in my rotation now. And how, how are you, what, what do you love working on the most? And also I'd love to know too, like with skin, how that started and did that come out of your wellness routine? I mean, obviously you're meticulous about how you look and you're beyond flawless. And so it's like, does that come out of, did that come out of that? Yeah. So I wanted to launch skincare always. And I was going to do that even when I had KKW Beauty, I had color and I had fragrance as a separate business, KKW Fragrance.

40:01And then I was going to launch KKW Skin. And I just felt like it was because there were going to be three different partners and manufacturing partners, it was going to be really hard to have one house for all of that in one place. And I really felt like… And one team? Yeah. Well, it was three different teams. And so I thought I really want one team and not have to go to different offices. I want one team that's all in-house, that there's one website. First of all, managing three different Instagram accounts, three different socials. Yeah, that's a lot. And telling everyone, go buy here and spend this shipping and product and go here.

40:41I just wanted one place where you could get it. Yeah. So in order to do that, because of my contractual deals, I had to change my name and start one brand. And I picked the name Skin, spelled S-K-K-N for Kim Kardashian. Very cool. I feel like all my brands like Skims, it always has like Kim or something in it. And we're starting with skincare, but it's mainly everything for the skin. So it'll be color cosmetics and fragrance as well. So what happened to the other brands then? I ended those relationships because my contracts were up with those partners. So it was either I was going to renew or I was just going to start all over and do it together with a team that had done my KKWB, like my whole in-house team.

41:28Okay. And they migrated over and then you... Yes. It's nice. It feels like a fresh start. Yeah, I love a fresh start. I love launching a brand. It's something that I absolutely love to do. It is so much work, as you know. I know. And I wanted to bring, especially launching and starting with skincare, I thought that I have learned so much in my journey. And I've had the best facialists, the best estheticians, tried every laser, I've tried everything. You better send me all the contacts. Yes. And I wanted to bottle that up. Stop. Stop. You look amazing. No, you do. And I wanted to bottle that up and take everything that I've learned and work with my favorite esthetician and chemist who really developed products that were next level.

42:21Like she had, she'd worked with everyone and she was like, I hope people don't just take this as like some celeb brand that you're putting your name on it because these formulas are – she's like some of the best that I've ever seen in such active ingredients that I hope everyone just really enjoys and gets it. Yeah. And so I loved like taking my time and launching this nine-step system that we really use. I know it seems like a lot. Do you do it every day? Every morning and every night. You do? Yeah. Really? Literally? Well, now once you do it and you see how like your skin is glowing, you just can't.

42:56You can't not do it. Yeah. You just, I start my, and I know I'm wearing makeup now. I don't wear as much makeup as I did. Right. Because your skin is so good. Now that I've gotten my skin. And I think that kind of started in quarantine. Yeah. And just like having nowhere to go. Yep. And really developing something that made me feel really confident being out. It was interesting during quarantine to not, I mean, I barely wear makeup ever anyway, but. So lucky. Oh my God. You don't need makeup. please. It was more of like an, I guess I love makeup. So I love the process. I love sitting in my glam chair.

43:34I hate it. I literally hate it. Like I want to scrape it off my face. I'm like such a tomboy in that way. I've started to feel that way. Yeah. And that's kind of a good feeling. That is good. Because I like just wasn't like that. I love the process. Like when I'm out, but for my daily stuff, I don't care. You don't do it as much. The way that I used to. Yeah. But isn't it interesting that like, you know, I imagine if you're in quarantine and day after day, you're not getting in full hair and makeup, right? And you're not – or were you filming and stuff? No. Only filming with our like – iPhones.

44:05iPhones on tripods. Like I don't care to not – like if I'm not in makeup, I don't care. I don't have to have my hair and makeup done to film my show. Right, right, right, right, right. Yeah. But so the formulas, it's a nine-step thing. You do it literally. You really do it. There's some. There's an oil that's a day and a night. So it's really only eight steps if you do everything. And one is a scrub. Okay. So you wouldn't use that every day. So it's really seven steps. Okay. And it's what I really use. Apple, you sent me some and Apple stole it. So I have to get a new set. I'll send you some more.

44:39And you'll just, I just want you to try it. I'm going to. Like all together. I'm going to do the whole thing. I'm going to. And you'll be like, oh shit, this is really, really good. This is really good shit. Yeah. I'm going to look like you by the time I wish. Okay.

45:01Oh, you know what I just want to ask you about too is when you were studying for the bar, which I thought was so interesting and you were so diligent about it. And I remember when you were about to take it the last time and you were like, oh my God, we were texting. And I was thinking like, what drove your, as you said, you didn't love school. Like what was driving you to do that? Did it feel like if I pass, like I'll, it'll be a stamp of approval or validation on some level. Will it be like me proving myself to my father in heaven? Like why, what drove you like that? I, in all honesty, I went to the White House to help.

45:41I remember. try to get clemency for a woman that we were successful in doing. But I really had no idea what they were talking about the whole time. And I was called back to have this like big clemency meeting at the Roosevelt Room in the White House. And it was all of these like really smart people, whether they were in politics or attorneys. And it was to try to perfect the clemency system because it does take so long. And everyone wanted my opinion and my advice, but they're all talking in such lawyerly language. And I just was, I was never afraid to like raise my hand and be like, what does that mean?

46:22Wait, what are you guys saying? But a lot of the times after so many questions, I would text my attorney sitting next to me being like, wait, what, what does that mean? And then I kind of just felt like why, if I didn't have to bring someone to translate for me and I didn't have to take that extra step and time is everything. and I just learned it for myself, there's so much more I can do. And I just wanted to be independent. I wanted to be free from that. Wait, that's so cool that it was born out of your passion for social justice reform. Yeah. I mean, I just, of course, it would have been amazing to, I was always super interested.

47:01When my friends were having pool parties and swimming in the pool laying out and my dad was out of town, I'd be up in his office like going through his evidence books because I was so nosy and I wanted to see crime scene photos and I wanted to see like stuff I shouldn't have been looking at. And that was all my friends would make fun of me and be like, get out here. Like we're all laying out. So it's not surprising to anyone that I would make that move if you know me, like all my friends. But the time that it takes, it's like a four-year program, two bar exams, at least 20 hours a week. And this time I had to double up on courses.

47:40So instead of doing two at a time, I'm doing four at a time because we lost some time with me not passing right away. So each time you'd have to wait six months before another test. And so I lost over a year there. So it's like my main thing that I do right now. That's your main thing. I have my office that I study in and I do three hours a day with a professor every single day. Wow. Six days a week. So cool. And then, yeah. And it's honestly my time also now because it's such a routine for me. It's my time to not have my phone, to train myself that way, to be away from everyone. When my kids are in school, I drop them off.

48:21And if they're like, mom, stay. And if my, you know, littler ones get a little needy for me to stay for a little, I'm like, I have school myself. So you guys are in school and I'm in school. And when I have my midterms, they're studying for tests. And I'm like, you guys, we're in this together. We can do this. So good. And if they're complaining, I'm like, I'm going to complain right there with you because I'm just as tired of this. And what else is your day? Do you work out? Skincare, color, products. I want to hear the whole thing. My whole day. I wake up at 540 every day. With an alarm. With an alarm.

48:54Your sister was so cute when I interviewed her for the podcast. asked that I asked her this question. I love knowing. She said no alarm. She said she wakes up with, she put, a dream is a wish. Oh, totally her. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. God, your voice is so good. So good. So what's your alarm? Do you have a... No, my alarm is the standard annoying wake you up alarm. Okay. And I work out at six to seven. Okay. And then... Wait, but do you have a coffee? Do you have hot water with lemon? No. Nothing. You have nothing until after you work out? Nothing. Okay. Yeah. What is your workout? It changes every day, but it's like I do mostly weightlifting.

49:38Okay. And so it's just like a body part. Today I did shoulders and back. Okay. Then I'll probably do legs and butt tomorrow. Okay. So wait, no Pilates yoga. I love Pilates, but I'll do that on the weekends. Okay. So that's my weekend workout. And do you Do you do cardio? Not really. I do like 10-minute warm-up of treadmill. Okay. Or Stairmaster. Okay. And then at 7 o 'clock on the dot, I come in. I have a coffee. Don't really have time to shower. I have to get right in to wake up the kids. There's always about… Coffee plain or with… No. So I just started drinking coffee when I started school, like a year ago.

50:17And I don't like coffee. Brad just started drinking coffee like in his 40s. What is it? He just has black coffee, but he had never like had coffee. So I need like oat milk, super sweet. Because you're vegan still? Ish. Okay. When I'm at home, I eat plant-based. Okay. When I leave, I don't put that pressure on me. So if it's like the option of, hey, there's an oat milk or something, I prefer that now. Okay. And I prefer like beyond meat over regular meat. Right. So if there's those options. But you will if there's nothing else. Totally. Okay. And I just don't. I like that flexibility. If I want to have mac and cheese, it's a flexitarian.

50:58I like that. Yeah. That's really good. But a majority of my time is vegan. Okay. So you have your oat milk latte. You wake up your kids. It's so sweet. It's like probably as a drop of coffee. What do you put in there? Just like the… It's already sweet, the oat milk? Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. And then wake up the kids, have about 15 minutes to 20 minutes to do my daughter's hair. She always needs me to do her hair. Everyone gets ready. We have about five minutes to do a TikTok. Oh, the gas force. It has to be every morning. Every morning. And have breakfast really quickly. Okay. It's sitting there waiting.

51:39Which what? Do you follow? It's vegan, but is it also, is there any other rules? Vegan sausage. No. Your gluten, you eat gluten. I eat gluten. Okay. It could be anything from like an acai type bowl to – I don't really eat that much in the morning. I don't know. Only if I'm starving. Okay. So – but breakfast is my favorite meal. Interesting. I just usually have a bite of theirs, but they all have to eat. Okay. I drink my coffee, get in the car, drop them off. Then I come home and study. Right. So I have three hours of studying starting at 9.30 every day. Okay. And the goal there is you take another exam at some point?

52:16I take one more bar exam. Okay, there's another one. So there's like the halfway mark. Okay. And then two more years and then the other bar exam. So now I can practice with like a primary attorney. So I can't like represent anyone by myself. Okay. Once I pass the second bar, it's like the real bar that everyone takes. Okay. And I'll take that like with everyone else and then I'm like officially an attorney. Okay, got it. And while I'm in that is when I have my full breakfast. Okay, all right. So I eat. Study. Study with the professor. And then if you're filming, does that follow you too? Then if I'm filming afterwards.

52:53Okay. And then. Kids and then. School pickup. Do you go pick them up? I do drop off every single morning. That's so nice. I pick up as much as I can, but I'm always at the activities. So even if I don't pick up, then it's like, okay, I'll meet you at soccer. I'll meet at basketball, ballet, gymnastics. And you have four. So you're going in all different directions. And always home for dinner. Do you all eat together? We do too. Family dinner is my favorite time of day. Do you have TV on during family dinner? No TV, no phones. That's my thing is like sometimes we'll all watch a movie. During dinner?

53:31Uh-huh. Like it's on, like a holiday movie to get in the spirit. Okay. Or we don't and we play games. That's nice. Yeah. I really believe in sort of the old-fashioned family dinner. with no electronics of any kind. Yeah, we have no phones. Engaging in conversation, no TV. Totally. We have no phones or anything. But if it's the holidays and like all the cousins are over. I'll allow it. A holiday movie in the background. And we always do the peak in the pit of our day. Yeah, that's nice. That's what we would do with our dad every dinner. That's sweet. That's nice. Some people, we used to call it Rose and Thorn.

54:08Oh, I love that. But maybe that's because we were in England. Yeah. I don't know. That's sweet. That's so good. Yeah. And then I go to bed early or, you know, I started to drink a little bit at the age of 42. Very nice. Yeah. Because you were not an alcohol drinker. No, coffee and alcohol. I love this. This is a new, bold new chapter. We're going to have some fun. I feel like I just got to like let loose a little bit, you know? Good. What is that? Like why? Why are you allowing yourself to let loose now? Because why not? You know, I just feel like I work a lot and I focus really like all day after school, then it's like product meetings and testing things and packaging meetings and everything for skin.

54:55Then I always have some skims element. Yeah, of course. I mean, we didn't even talk about that. It's nuts. Four-hour meetings at a time, six-hour meetings at a time. I'll do product meetings. And are you in any or all of your businesses, are you in board meetings? are you like watching? Everything. Right. So you're… I'm in every board meeting. I'm in every fabrics meeting, design meeting, product meeting. I pick the campaigns for everything. I pick the talent. If it's not me and it's for skims, even for skin, I pick the models. I pick the photographers, everything that we're doing, whether even a pop-up in the design.

55:31I'm always working closely with the team that I hire. Like I have to see every last thing. And are you involved in operations at all or like finances? No. So that I'm not. So I have a great team that I trust that handles everything, even from factories, distribution. I will be there for any questions or like in board meetings if we have any like issues. But as far as even and where we go in retail, I'll be a part of that conversation. But once I sign off on something, I do have a lot of trust in my team. And so I mainly focus on like marketing, design, fabrics, especially for skims. Like I'm still the fit model.

56:15I have to try everything on. I'm still the fit model for G Label too. It's so fun, right? It is fun. Yeah. It is, but I do feel stretched thin sometimes. I absolutely do. Yeah. I mean, you would have to. And we didn't even talk about the private equity thing you're doing with Jay Salmon. So I love, he's such a great guy. I love him. He's so great. I mean, how great is this? I feel like I've been having these conversations with friends, especially a lot of my friends in like San Francisco that live and breathe this. And we always talk so much about how and why you want to invest in a company and what makes sense.

56:50And as you grow, you just, different people around you start to have these other kind of conversations. And Jay and I have been talking for so long. and when we talked about what we can do, it just was so exciting to me. And is it your capital or are you going to go raise? We're going to raise. You're going to raise. Yeah, we're going to raise. And are you going to fund it too? I will. Yeah, of course. I will. Jay will. We both really believe in it. I'm sure my family will. How the fuck are you going to have time to do all this stuff? So I've already had so many meetings with so many companies that we're interested in and that I'm so good at micromanaging my time.

57:30I really am. But even just to maintain focus, to have the sort of brain cognition, to be studying for the bar. Once school's done, my life will be so much easier. And my time, I won't even know what to do with myself. Even if I have a Sunday off, like Courtney said to me, you never sleep in. And I'm like, you don't get that luxury with four little kids. That just It doesn't happen unless you're away on a vacation by yourself with no kids. So I just live my life that way. And if I have an hour, I'll dive into something else. I just don't ever feel comfortable just like laying around doing nothing.

58:16So my version of that has been to spend some time with my friends and have a drink and stay out a little bit later when I probably wouldn't have done that before. Even if I'm a little bit tired the next day in my workout, just that time has been so much fun. Yes, to be a woman, to be a friend, to laugh, to – Yeah. And there is something about alcohol that, you know, I don't know. So it's like a great delineator between like the seriousness and the push of the day. And I'm like, oh, you know, it's like there's an exhale in it. Yeah. It's like, that's good. I'm glad you're doing that. I don't think I would do that on a daily.

58:51I'm not a wine drinker. No. What's your poison? Just tequila. Tequila. Yeah. Just has to be like a little shot of pineapple and a shot of tequila. Perfect. Yeah. That's so good. I'm glad you're doing that. I got two shots and I'm like, so good. It's been fun. Thank you so much. This was so good. Thank you. I could have asked you 50 more questions easily. Thank you.

59:17Thanks for listening to my conversation with Kim Kardashian. Thanks for tuning in. This has been a presentation of Cadence 13 Studios. I hope you'll listen, follow, rate, and review all of our episodes, which are available for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts.