Mantras for Self-Doubt and More Summer Advice (with Cleo Wade)

0:02Don't hold anything too tightly. Just wish for it, want it, let it come from the intention of real truth for you, and then let it go. For me, our soul is like it's unbound. It's limitless. But we will use words to limit ourselves. When people stop believing that somebody's got your back or Superman's coming, we turn to ourselves. And that's where you become empowered. courageous participation attracts positive things. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow and this is the Goop Podcast, where we bring together visionaries, scientists, healers, artists, and seekers. I'm so grateful that I get to interview these extraordinary thought leaders and share their wisdom with you.

0:51And I love listening to the conversations that are led by my co-host and dear friend, Cleo Wade. Cleo is a beautiful poet and author. I deeply admire her and the way she keeps her heart open to the world. Together, we believe that engaging in open-minded, honest, and sometimes difficult conversations has the power to change our lives. All right, over to Cleo. Hi, everyone. Welcome to one of my favorite ways to do this podcast, which is ask me anything. it makes me feel like one of those kind of old school radio hosts or like a dear abby column which is just so fun okay one of the first questions i got was suggestions on how to not feel overwhelmed and enjoy pregnancy when i was pregnant with memphis my first daughter i had a mantra.

1:47And part of why I think mantras are really helpful is because our brains really do just run wild in our mind and it's just a centering thought. And so I know that people, I would say, I guess use them for different ways, or maybe you've never had a mantra before because it feels a little woo woo for you. But whenever you're feeling anxious, it's actually because your thoughts are really speeding up and they're probably gravitating towards and grasping the negative. And so something that kind of helps to anchor you back to some sense of feeling centered or some sense of feeling fundamentally okay can be a thought that you repeat over and over and over again.

2:27And so when I was pregnant with Memphis, I had a mantra that really interestingly also turned into my mantra when I was having my early days with her and I was up really late at night feeding and struggling to feed at times because I didn't have a lot of milk when I had Memphis when I was trying to breastfeed. And so the mantra I had was, you are peaceful, you are calm, you are healthy, you are happy, you are safe, you are joyful, you are loved, loved, loved. And I would kind of hold my belly and say that to myself over and over again. And I think I was saying it to myself and to my little baby Memphis in there at the time, to kind of just make me feel connected to the experience and all of the values I knew I wanted to have for her and knew that if I'm doing the most work possible on myself, I deserved all those things.

3:20I do feel that every person on the planet deserves peace and joy and to feel loved. And so, yeah, I recommend a mantra that will just help you calm down when you feel a little racy because also pregnancy anxiety is a real thing and I had a lot of friends that had really intense pregnancy anxiety so I think breathing having a mantra moving your body and going on walks if you can that is really helpful also having fun I think tools and fun are probably the ultimate life combo. Okay, the next question is how to know if long-time friendship is worth working for or has run its course? I have often found that you can have mutually agreed upon space with someone.

4:17And sometimes if you are having trouble having the mutually agreed upon space, that can be a sign that maybe it is time it's run its course. If one person feels that this relationship is running smoothly and perfectly and the other person feels that it is compromising for them, oftentimes I think that's a sign that the relationship is dependent on one person's ability to endure and the other person's desire to, you know, maybe center themselves and their needs more than the other. And so when you ask for space from that dynamic, people are oftentimes very upset because they're relying on the toxicity of the relationship for its functionality.

5:00And people don't like that. They don't like when things are, their kind of like flow is upset because it works for them and they don't care if it works for you or not. And so I think a lot of the times when you ask for space from that person, they're really confused and, you know, or they're upset because they feel judged. You know, I think people do feel judged when you want space. And when you have a really kind of clear, kind, transparent relationship and you ask for space, I have found in my experience that usually there is the person might feel the hurt feelings because it never feels good for someone to say, I need space from you.

5:41But if they can welcome that too, because they maybe are proud of you for being able to have that need. And they know that maybe you struggle with being able to say things like that, or they respect that each person needs to feel good in order for a relationship to function. I think they usually welcome that that space can happen. And so I always try to take some space first without making a big decision, because I have to say most relationships come back around in some different manifestation and with different kind of breaks and time apart. And if you can get time apart, I do think that you can allow the relationship to regroup as something new and it can have a new dynamic that perhaps is something that feels good for both of you.

6:29And then if you don't come back together, then the relationship is telling you that perhaps it has run its course for now. but as always I do feel that life is long and how you feel today or this year or this month you can always allow yourself to change or fall back into a nostalgic feeling or want something a new version of something or reach out to someone and that's why I always think it's good to reach out to someone if you miss them or try to mend a bridge if you feel that you want to even if you felt that you were the one who set that bridge on fire to begin with. And we've all been there too.

7:08And sometimes, by the way, that happens with family members. And you need space to reset the dynamic. And you need space to have new boundaries. And sometimes the space is what allows the person who may be doing the self-centering the time and the time to themselves to reflect. Because I do think that most people who struggle with centering themselves are also the same people who struggle with having a reflective time in their life. So sometimes when they don't have you to help distract them and keep them going in that self-centering nature, they are kind of sitting back alone and have a little bit of time to question their lives, which can be helpful for reconciliation.

7:52As you can tell, I have had a lot of friendship fractures, friendship breakups, friendship coming together. I wrote about it a lot in Remember Love because I do think that friendships are so valuable that they are something that we, that deserve more thought than, you know, you're just not my friend anymore in the same way that our romantic relationships do. A great book on friendship, and she's also been on the pod, is Aminatu's Big Friendship. Okay. What do you like to do to relax on your days off? Relaxing is, I wouldn't say might, easiest headspace or kind of body space, I often feel that I'm in this kind of pattern, or my nervous system gets stuck in this pattern of doing and doing and doing until I'm forced to be by being exhausted, which is why I also typically run into burnout often and have had to create a lot of practices around how to wind down and feel deserving of calming my nervous system down or relaxing.

9:03It helps to have friends around you who you can really aspire to in the ways in which they can relax. I have a really close girlfriend who is just very good at caring for her nervous system because relaxing is, you know, this ability to take your nervous system from a 10 to a two. And I have a friend who's very good at doing that kind of in the middle of the day, which is something that I would really probably struggle with because I think I have that kind of not enoughness in me that makes me feel that the daylight hours must be used. And, you know, I think that's not enoughness. I think that's probably, you know, this, our capitalistic society that I live in.

9:44And so for me, I rebel in order to relax, which is why there's a big chunk of remember love called worthy rebellion. And it's all about kind of repacing. And so when I relax, I like to watch movies that I've seen a million times or movies that I think just speak to a relaxed nervous system. So I like movies with low stakes. I like movies where love is the point or a woman's journey to claiming herself is the point. So I love Nancy Meyer's movies and which I'm sure I've talked about a million times. And I love movies from the forties, like a Philadelphia story and a thin man. And, and sometimes I like a little light mystery, but mostly I've watched things that I've seen a million times.

10:37And then I have shows that I love. I love watching Martin and I watch Living Single a lot because also sometimes part of relaxing is being able to be alone and also visit with characters for me because I think I'm someone who really feels excited and happy in life when I'm surrounded by my friends. But that doesn't always mean that it's a relaxing space. And so sometimes I try to visit with my kind of, you know, TV friends. So I'll watch Will and Grace or I'll watch Living Single or I'll watch Girlfriends or Sex and the City or something. And I also like to go on walks as a way to kind of begin the wind down into relaxation.

11:22It helps me to get that nervous energy out because I do feel that I'm someone who gets a little wound up. So yes, walks, movies, Sometimes I call a friend to relax. And I think also just sitting in bed with a glass of water and staring at the ceiling is very relaxing. Okay. Will you ever re-release your real leader's leave with love sweatshirts, please? Oh, sure. Yes, I'm excited to make more things soon, and I will. And thanks for asking. At Goop, we believe the spaces we spend time in shape how we feel and how we connect. That's why we're drawn to Convene, a global hospitality brand reimagining work in meeting spaces centered around design and care.

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12:52Convene, for the moments that move your business. what is on your summer bucket list this really kind of connects to my previous comment about relaxing I decided not to really travel this summer and to really stay home and make the most of every all of my days because last summer I moved around a ton and I don't know if any of you experience this but if you're traveling a lot during holiday breaks it makes them feel like they go by so much faster for me I always love to stay home during Christmas and you know the kind of winter holiday time because I just feel like the days feel really long and you just get so much out of them.

13:31And I'm trying it out for summer. And I have to say in the first few weeks, it was a little uncomfortable because I think I'm used to packing up all the kids and moving around and, you know, just bopping around. And then a lot of my friends are out of town. And so it was a little uncomfortable, but when I could ride through the discomfort, I got to this zone of really being able to do the things that I never feel like I have time to do. So I've been cooking a lot and I've been spending such long, amazing days with my kids. And I've just had time to myself to think as I prepare to kind of go back into a season of writing.

14:08So it's been really nice. So I guess I don't have a summer bucket list is the answer to that. Do you have any self-care rituals that focus on growing and maintaining self-worth? There's a page in heart talk about confidence. And confidence, I would say, is code for a strong sense of self-worth. And in the book, I kind of write about how confidence is not something you just kind of wake up with in the morning or some people are born with or some people aren't. It is something you practice. And it is first and foremost kind of rooted in how you talk to yourself. I have found that in times of my life where I've struggled with confidence the most, it was not only or not mainly because of how other people around me were talking or behaving, but because of the way that I was speaking to myself.

15:06And what's really interesting about how you speak to yourself is that you're often going to kind of attract other people who are affirming what you think about yourself. We often manifest our limitations, just like we can often manifest our greatest, deepest desire. But if you feel that you are unlovable, you'll often manifest people who will affirm that in you. And maybe it's in micro ways and maybe it's, you know, macro ways, but you know, people who will kind of say, oh yeah, you know, you're never going to meet someone or you shouldn't have that dream or you don't deserve this thing. And so I have found that when you can have this practice of really correcting yourself and having those boundaries within, even if the thought comes up that says, you're so embarrassing, or you always say the wrong thing, you can have that kind of secondary thought that really fights for yourself inside of you.

16:08And I think that most of us don't realize that most people who are confident are people who are just willing to advocate for themselves within or advocate for their highest self within. These thoughts that kind of naturally occur are often not us anyway. They're these kind of conditioned societal, you know, for some of us, it might be, you know, our negative self-talk might be rooted in the one teacher who said the mean thing to us so that we could never forget because unfortunately, most of us select the negative out of our memories and experiences. And so I think that if you can realize that those thoughts that kind of seem to just kind of pop up that don't feel good still come from somewhere.

16:49They just come from these things that we held on to in our subconscious or in our kind of most forward consciousness. We can kind of advocate for ourselves the way that we would hope a friend would advocate for us. And so if your kind of inner chatter, negative chatter is saying, oh, you're just not smart. You're just not smart. And you'll never be smart. You can have the person, another thought come in, and you can have another voice come in that is your inner advocate that says, there's a lot of reasons you feel like that. And none of them are true. You know, intelligence is varied. You are smart.

17:28You are worthy of living, learning, growing, and all that happens in our lives. And so I do think that having an inner advocate is probably the most critical practice you can have towards confidence or, you know, really thorough self-worth. And so if you can kind of get that down, you really start to see everywhere else in life what you'll attract people that kind of help you stay on track. I feel that, you know, I don't have friends that I think help me stay delusional about things. But if I get into a spiral of like questioning myself, I think we all question, are we a good person? Are we lovable?

18:10Are we this? Are we, you know, I think because I, my inner advocate is who has connected with most of my close friendships or my partnership in Simon. I think that that is the energy with which my friends connect with me when I'm having moments of doubt. And so I think that also helps you to have this practice and in in people around you that help you to kind of maintain a sense of self-worth how do you make new adult friends is the next question so this is something we've talked about so much over the past year on this pod and I really do think that the online space is an amazing place to make friends whether that's on Instagram or Twitter or whatever, if you can find a way to allow the initial kind of communications to happen there, and then the connections to happen offline.

19:04I do think that getting offline and in real life is important, or even talking to people on the phone. And also something that Aminatou said on one of my very first early podcasts here was she said that she has a theory about friendship, of friend, friend, making friends as adults, which is that some people are hosts and some people are guests. Um, and I thought that was like one of the most brilliant ways to describe what is often a block for how people make friends as adults, because if you're a host and you're kind of attracted to being friends with another host, you're both just trying to get each other to come over and nobody wants to be the guest.

19:45And then you just don't connect. so if you like someone and they are kind of inviting you over if you can find a way to kind of sit in the discomfort of being the guest to get over there I think that's also helpful and then also something that happens is that recognize if you're a guest and you're attracted to being friends with another guest so neither of you are making the plan which means that at some point somebody has to also make the plan and other than that I think that finding community centered whether that's really niche kind of yogas or movement classes or you know I have a friend who recently she lives in New Orleans and she started going to a swimming class for adults and made a bunch of girlfriends in there and has really been enjoying it and so I think kind of getting over these humps to get back into community-centered spaces is so critical like where is community happening?

20:42If you can get yourself into those spaces, you will make connections. And so if you want to do a, you know, a workout to trap music, like those are two, that's a kind of niche experience, which means that if you're into that, you're probably finding like-minded people. So I think as kind of specific to things that you like, that you can kind of show up to, um, even if it's specific to, I'm going to a space where I know people want to meet other people. I think that's really important and helpful. So even if you wanted to go to something like Essence Festival in New Orleans, which is this huge half a million people gathering, you can also research the smaller events.

21:25So say that you find something at a Black-owned bookstore or you go to a seminar, a beauty seminar, or you find these different bubbles within that big bubble. But I do think that getting to community is the first step. And there's so many people and so many things, people hosting things at every price point, whether people are doing, you know, $10 workouts in a park in your neighborhood, or you want to go do something fancy, whatever it is, but getting to the community space, which I know can be scary. It's scary sometimes to go somewhere alone, but most people who are doing things like that are doing it because they also value community.

22:04And so more often than not, you're going to find really kind people and really welcoming people who are excited that you're there. Okay. What do you think about divorce? I think that divorce is a great tool for separation, which sounds like a very kind of like politician-y answer. And I don't mean it that way, but I think that relationships grow and shift and our duty is to create connective webs that have as much harmony and love as possible and you know my friend my friend Sade who was actually my first guest on the pod she was we were having this like really funny conversation about breakups and I don't even remember if it was a friendship breakup or it was a romantic one and I remember saying to her I started out by saying, you know, I love them, you know, when they're over there.

23:01She goes, I'll take it one step further. I love you because you're over there. And then she goes, and actually I could take it one step further. She goes, the only way I can love you is if you're over there. And so I think divorce is saying the only way I can love you is if you're over there. And I think that people that you have these really valuable, beautiful relationships with when their end, I think that there's a way that we can give them a lot of love in their ending, just as we gave them a lot of love in their beginning. I think we can be graceful. I think we can be loving. I think we can be, you know, respectful.

23:39And I think it's possible to leave with love. And so I think if divorce is the only way you can be in community with the person that you are in a relationship with and still love them, then by all means, or still be able to have love in your heart for them and peace and harmony, then great. Don't judge it. I think the hardest thing about divorce is that there's a lot of judgment wrapped up in it. And I think the judgment and divorce is nonsense, frankly. Okay. What was your writing I've made it moment? unfortunately as somebody who struggles with not enoughness which I write about all the time I don't think you ever have a I've made it moment but I have moments where I'm certainly you know really proud because I you know came from a kind of poor background in New Orleans and I didn't have a ton of support growing up and I think I had a lot of love but I don't think I of support, if that makes sense.

24:48I have certain moments where I think, you know, I've spoken at the White House or something and you're like, wow, that's, it's really, I feel very grateful to have been able to kind of created a road that could lead me somewhere like that. But most of the times if I ever feel like I've made it, I think it's more rooted in my relationships and in my work. So sometimes I feel like, you know, even if I can have periods where, you know, I haven't actively written anything in probably, you know, a month and a half or two months, and I've been able to be with my kids and be with my friends. And I think being able to have such a concentrated time with them with no background kind of work pulling on me, that's kind of an I made it moment because it makes me feel like I've worked or built something that was sturdy enough to hold spaces of restoration where I can really be with the people I love.

25:48And that's incredibly valuable to me. Okay. What is one book that changed your life and why? I could say two because one book that changed my life was probably the first self-help book I ever read when I was, I read a book called, but I wouldn't say it's my favorite book I've ever read, but I didn't know that books like this existed. And I think that it created my trajectory into kind of writing these types of books. And so it's a pretty incredible influence on me because I just didn't know that there was, there were, that books were written like this and it was the war of art. And the book, by the way, is very good.

26:26It's like, it just, I wouldn't say it's like, oh my God, it's so me, but it is so, it was great. And it really, really affected me in a really positive way. And then it put me on this kind of binge of reading a zillion self-help books, but it was my first, it was the first one. And it really started that movement for me. And I didn't know about personal growth. And I can't say that at the time I really liked myself very much. I think I was kind of stuck in a self that I hadn't chosen yet. Or as Maya Angelou says, she says, everyone invents themselves at some point. And she always says that when she got pregnant at 16, that's when she was able to invent herself because she decided to have this baby and do this scary thing.

27:08And she knew she needed to invent her life. And I think that after I read that book and read all those other books, it gave me the understanding that I couldn't invent my life. I didn't have to be who I was raised to be or who every grownup my entire life told me I could or should be. I really was able to decide for myself what I would do and who I would be. And so it was really cool. But a book that changed my life that I love is probably The Color Purple because I had never seen a story be told in kind of poetic prose like that. And I couldn't believe a book like that really existed. So I loved it.

27:48The writing is so beautiful. So, okay. Any advice on navigating challenging moments with parents? First of all, I'm so sorry you're going through that because there is nothing like a challenging moment with your parents because your parents oftentimes feel, I think that they know you better than you know yourself or whatever their view of who you are right now. They've decided what that is. And so I think that a lot of the times we bump up against who we are and who our parents feel we should be to them or feel we should be, period. And it's really hard because there's a constant kind of rebellion and declaration of independence we have to kind of have in order to constantly re-meet our parents at different phases of our lives.

28:44and it's hard because your parents don't necessarily want to interact with you as if they're a peer but at some point you are both adults and the boundaries you have with them are boundaries you would have with any other adult and most of the time family members do not believe that boundaries should exist really in those in that dynamic and that's really hard because as a grown-up when you work really hard on boundaries with your with the people in your life because perhaps the self-help books have shown you how to do that or your therapist or your healing circles or your yogis or whatever it is you start to realize the toxicity that brews when boundaries or the appropriate boundaries are not in place and it's hard to have a disagreement with your parents on the appropriate boundaries for your relationship and so I always say that you know you can and I think we talked about this a little bit maybe with Dr.

29:42Sue but you know find the best way for you to have the boundaries with your parents. Whether you need to verbalize them whether you need to take the boundaries with space so that you can have time to yourself to reflect and time to yourself to process. A lot of what bothers us in our relationships with our parents is that we don't have appropriate spaces to process whether that's how you can talk about things with your siblings or you can talk about it with your therapist. A lot of the times we're just in it in a total reactionary space with them because again, we don't have the boundaries for processing.

30:18So I would establish the boundaries you need so that you can be your most processed self with them. And I would advocate for the boundaries in the relationship. And even if it means they're dissatisfied or they don't like them, they'll adjust and they will eventually. And if they don't, they don't. And that will mean that you have your boundaries are more rooted in space and they are in conversation and discussing your feelings. And that's okay too. So I think also the most important thing to remember is that no one is entitled to or deserves to hurt your feelings. So if you are in a dynamic with anyone, whether it's your parents or any family member where your feelings are constantly hurt and you don't feel good and you feel that you're being harmed, nobody deserves to do that to you.

31:13So take the space you need however you need to take it and find mutually agreed upon terms of having a relationship with them. Two adults, whether you're parent and child or not, that is what it is and both parties need to be open to that. This question is, how is it being a stepmom? Any advice? I really love our big family. And I think that if you're in a role in which you have any kind of sense of influence over kids that are not yours, but you love and kind of live with or in deep, intimate community with like a step parent. I think it's really important to have a lot of patience and really be in charge of boundarying yourself and your own feelings.