Marriage, Second Careers, and Perfectionism (with Victoria Beckham)

0:02When you are pioneering anything or introducing new ideas to the culture, you get criticized. You do? Yeah. Did you hear about that? I didn't find the one. I found someone I respected and we made it the one. In a sort of longing kind of view of love, people understand each other as if by magic. Nothing in itself is addictive on the one hand. On the other hand, everything could be addictive if there's an emptiness in that person that needs to be filled. I now know that nobody changes until they change their energy. And when you change your energy, you change your life. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow. This is the Goop Podcast, bringing together thought leaders, culture changers, creatives, founders, and CEOs, scientists, doctors, healers, and seekers, here to start conversations, because simply asking questions and listening has the power to change the way we see the world.

0:58Here we go. I've been a Spice Girl fan since the very beginning, which is partly why I was excited to sit down with Victoria Beckham today, but I was even more excited to have the opportunity to hear about who she is now and what her life is like today as a massively successful business person. I asked Victoria about her business transformation into fashion and beauty and what it was like to pivot from one career into another. We also talked about perfectionism and what drives Victoria as the creative mind behind her companies. Of course, we also ended up talking about so much more our families, the formula for long marriage, turning 50, and our favorite Spice Girls song.

1:42So let's cut right to my chat with Victoria Beckham.

1:49Hey. Hi. How are you? You look beautiful. Thank you. So do you. Oh God. I should have, now I see you're all glam. I mean, I should have worn makeup or something. No, we literally, we just finished an event and I just got in from London. It's so good to be in New York. It's gorgeous weather. Good. So nice. That's so great. That's so great. I have so many questions to ask you. Thank you so much for joining me on the Goop podcast. This is so, such an honor and so much fun. I've been a mega Spice Girl fan since the very beginning. So, you know, I've loved you for a long time, Victoria Beckham. Well, thank you so much.

2:32And we've been trying to arrange for us to do this for such a long time. And I'm just so happy that finally we made it work. I know me too. I'd love to start with your business transformation, because I'm so inspired when I see this happen. And in a way, there's a parallel for myself, right? I had a film career, and then I decided to make a completely right turn. So will you tell me a little bit about how, so it's the 2000s, and you're kind of like this huge pop star. What was it that made you, because if you're anything like me, like a few years before you actually started to ideate a business, you were thinking about it, right?

3:26So what, what happened? Take me back to that time and tell me where the seed started to germinate. Were you sick of performing? Like what happened? You know, I've always, I've always loved fashion and I've always loved beauty. and I had a lot of fun with the Spice Girls you know when growing up strong focus on dance and musical theatre and I'm so thankful and grateful for my time with the Spice Girls and the support of the fans and you know and traveling around the world with the girls really was incredible but deep down my real passion was fashion and it started with empowering boys and girls through music and now it's about empowering both through fashion and beauty as well and I remember performing at Madison Square Garden and I had just started my own brand and I've been running around the city I think I've been doing press interviews and I remember turning up for soundcheck, putting down the Birkin bag, picking up a microphone and going from being, you know, a businesswoman to a performer.

4:48And it was just time for me to really focus on my true passion. And it was time to make that change, you know. And it's quite brave in a way to make a shift like that, I think, because you had this huge job as a pop star and you could have kept going. And I think, did people, like, I know when I started Goop, people were like, what the fuck are you doing? Why are you doing this? You know, I felt like, I felt sort of on the spot to explain why. Did you feel that way? I was very aware of people's preconceptions. I remember Mark Jacobs saying to me, you know, it's about the product as long as the product is good yeah then you know then then then people can say they don't like it but no one can say it's rubbish make sure the quality is always good and so ultimately it really was about creating what I was looking for what I desired not trying to run before I could walk and really learning about the business and building the business in the right way and I've always been so hands-on every step of the way and even now there's not a single part of the process that I'm not involved with whether that's you know the inspiration behind a collection picking the fabric.

6:13I obsess over every single detail. I love what I do. I'm so passionate about what I do. I think people would be quite surprised at how multifaceted it is and quite what goes into creating a collection and a show and then a selling campaign and that's for both fashion and beauty so it's always ultimately about about the product I think that's the most important thing and you know I'm very I'm very honest I don't want to produce anything until I believe that it really is best in class that's very important you know And with beauty, whether that's the formulas, making sure that the formulas are not compromised, but that are clean, you know, a strong focus on clean beauty, being inclusive.

7:02And, you know, that takes time. And I obsess over every single detail. Is the component right? You know, not just the formulas, the packaging. Are you a perfectionist in all areas of your life, would you say? I am. I'm a perfectionist and I'm very disciplined. as well. You know, I mean, I remember when we first met years ago and, uh, do you remember we were at dinner? I think we were at Giorgio Baldy in Los Angeles when I first moved there and we were at dinner with Mr. Valentino and Giancarlo. That's right. I thought we were at Medeo. Weren't we at Medeo? Actually, maybe it was. You're right.

7:43Yes, it was. That's right. Right. My God. When you move and, and you, and ever, did we talk about our perfectionism, our shared disease of perfectionism at the dinner table? We might've done because I was pregnant with Harper at the time. And I remember saying to you, you know, what do you do to work out? And you were doing a specific workout at the time, doing a lot of Tracy Anderson, I think. And I then got into it and I did it almost every day for years and years and years. I'm still on it, girl. I'm still on the Tracy all these years later. So tell me about this discipline of yours. What does that look like?

8:27Is it around exercise, food? What is the... Wellness is just really important to me. I remember you saying, actually, I remember reading a quote where you said, working out, it's just what you do. It's like cleaning your teeth. You said you wouldn't just not do that. So it's just it's just what you do. It's your routine every day. And I'm pretty much the same. You know, I get up, I work out five days a week. What do you do? I do weight training. So I lift heavy weights, myself and David often work out together. I start while he does a school run. And then he joins me. I do about an hour and a half an hour and 45 minutes every day wow and then david makes the the david david makes the protein shakes afterwards and then we get ready and we and we both go our separate ways to work but it's just something that i feel that i have to do to prepare myself mentally you know for the for the day you know i'm i'm looking after well obviously you know two of the kids are older now.

9:37But you know, I'm a mom, I've got four kids running a fashion brand and a beauty brand. And for me, being healthy, being relatively strict about the way that I eat and the way that I work out, you know, is what I have to do. It's about balance. I have a healthy diet. But you know, I like to have fun as well. You know, I'd love to have a glass of wine or two or, you know, or a tequila. I enjoy my life as well. I think that I am very strict, but at the same time, I want to enjoy life. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's really important, especially for women in this modern era who have so much responsibility on our plates.

10:18We've sort of overburdened ourselves with all this responsibility of job and motherhood. And it's like, you've got to be able to blow off steam and have fun. Oh my God. You know, I absolutely. And I think that I really enjoy my life. You know, I've recently had a big birthday. I saw that on my Instagram. Happy 50th. Thank you so much. I had the best time and I feel really content with where I am right now. I feel very blessed with my family, my personal life, but also, you know, professionally as well. How is it having a married kid? Yeah, I know. How did that happen? That is so fucking weird.

11:04Like, I know. A married kid. Do you know, time goes so quickly, so quickly. I feel like I just had Brooklyn five minutes ago and here he is, you know, married and, you know living over the other side of the world and you're gonna be granny soon you know I was I don't know what I'm gonna be called my goodness I don't know not granny let's think of a better name than that I don't want to be called granny no no me neither me neither but yeah you know I'm proud of all the kids you know they all they work really hard they all have their individual passions. They are nice, sweet, kind, hardworking, humble humans, you know, and I'm very proud of them.

11:50That's not an easy feat. I mean, especially like growing up in the public eye the way they did and it's, how did you, how did you instill in them? Were you really strict on manners? Were you, how did you get that? What was your parenting philosophy? Absolutely. I mean, we are strict and I think it's all about communication. We're a very close family and I think it really is about being present and communicating. You know, I really do feel that I've been the best mom that I could be, but at the same time, it hasn't been at the compromise of, you know, of my relationship with my husband. I've also been able to have a career and that's because I've had a support system with my parents and David's parents as well that have been very involved with bringing the children up.

12:41But it really is about communicating with the kids and being present. You can see how connected you are to your kids. You know, sometimes you see, like, I know you just a little bit and admire you from afar, but you can, certain celebrities, you know, you really can get a sense. And I get such a strong sense of you guys as a unit. It's really sweet to see. Thank you so much. I mean, we've brought our children up how we were brought up, you know, I mean, obviously, the circumstances are very different. And our children have privileges that myself and David didn't have. But fundamentally, it's about, it's about love and and respecting, you know, we've always really respected our parents and, and having boundaries and being relatively strict without stifling at the same time, you know, our kids are good.

13:37kind human beings they have personalities you know they're fun at the same time at my birthday each one of the children wrote a little speech and they got up on stage and and they were so eloquent and it was so heartfelt what they said and they're talking you know in front of quite a you know you know a room full of adults Tom Cruise no less Tom Cruise was there and you know half of she's 12 years old and she wrote her own speech and she started by saying, I've never done anything like this before. And she was sweet and kind and funny and humble. And I really felt very proud of all of them. That's so great.

14:19But didn't you, I mean, I thought you were called Posh Spice because you did come from Means or is that not true? Do you know, it wasn't until the documentary that but I realized that actually I always said working class. And then I said, but you know, my dad took me to school in a Rolls Royce. No, I wasn't. I was called Posh Spice because I was the one that liked designer clothes. I liked nice restaurants. I got the nickname of Posh. Because you like Posh things. Exactly. It was definitely no more than a nickname. It was a good nickname though. at goop we believe the spaces we spend time in shape how we feel and how we connect that's why we're drawn to convene a global hospitality brand reimagining work in meeting spaces centered around design and care convene's sophisticated purpose-built locations are designed to inspire connection whether it's a board meeting for 10 a team off-site or a workplace membership that gives you and your team a home base.

15:23With hospitality at its core, every detail is taken care of, so your in-person time feels seamless, elevated, and intentional. If you're looking for a new workspace or planning your next off-site or meeting, schedule a tour today at convene.com. And for our Goop listeners, mention Goop to receive up to$500 off your next meeting or event reservation rental fee. This promotion is valid for all new clients on select spaces booked and actualized prior to December 30th, 2025 and subject to availability. Convene for the moments that move your business. I saw the documentary. It was so good. I absolutely loved it.

16:03It was great. And you know, I didn't know very much about soccer, football and David's whole career, which was so amazing. It was great. And it was really nice how you guys sort of opened up. Was that weird to kind of open your life up to that? Or how did you get comfortable with that? We know this documentary is very much about David and celebrating his journey. But you're like the co-star big time. Oh, stop. You are. No, you know, but it was, you know, I didn't realize originally that really it was going to be about the family. And so when David said about doing a few interviews, I mean, obviously, you know, I've always been there to support him and I'm so proud of everything he has achieved but it was quite the process funnily enough after I did some filming I turned to I turned to my friend and I said my god I don't know how actresses do it I just don't know how they did it and then we did an ad off the back of the documentary for it was like an ad for the Super Bowl and it took all day to do this advert And I turned to my hairdresser at the time and I was like, my God, I know how Cate Blanchett feels.

17:18And he said, are you actually comparing what you have just done in like a Super Bowl ad to Cate Blanchett? And I was like, yeah, because it's such a process. I mean, you've got a light and then you've got a relight. And, you know, I don't know how you do it. I don't. I quit years ago. It's too tedious for me. It is. It's really hard work. I went the Victoria Beckham way of quitting my main job and, and, and, and starting a business. Let me just, I want to ask you about the business again before I forget, because like for somebody who's as detailed oriented as you are and so involved, I'm, and I'm the same way you like, you didn't take the CEO title ever.

18:06Right. You, you just, Oh, like for me, it took me a long time until I, my board said, you know, we think you should be CEO and you should, you should do this. And, you know, time will tell if it was a good decision or not. But for me, it's been interesting to sort of parse out like the creative piece and the consumer facing piece and the CEO piece. And frankly, I feel like it's, it's really, I don't know how much longer I can do both things. But with your level of involvement, were you really intentional about what you were going to do every day and what areas you were going to really index into and what you were going to leave for other people to do?

18:50I think delegating was initially difficult for me because I like to be in control. I'm very passionate about what I do. My name is on the label. I had a vision, but it got to a stage where, you know, I couldn't do everything on my own. I'm very much creative, but at the same time, I'm an owner and a founder as well. So as a CEO, I'm very, I'm very hands-on and very involved with the business side of things as well. But, I surround myself with an incredible team of people that support me. Is the CEO report into you? What is the structure, like the governance structure? I have two CEOs. So I have one for beauty and I have one for fashion.

19:38I'm very close to both. My time really is split between the two brands. And I have a very close relationship with them. Obviously, we have board meetings regularly. And so I'm very involved, you know, in the design of the clothes to the music at the show, to the casting, you know, to, you know, how we merchandise in the sales showroom as well. So, yeah, I would say I'm a control freak. But, you know, I have such an incredible team. And I feel very lucky to have them around me as well. because at this level, you have to be able to delegate. I've reached people in these roles. Yeah. I'm hearing, by the way, a ton about your beauty brand and people are like obsessed and really like coveting it.

20:31It's really sought after. Will you tell me about the, first of all, when did you decide you wanted to go into beauty? And then what are the values behind it. Like why, what is it that people are so obsessed? Is that an alcoholic beverage? Do you know what this is? This is actually a sparkling water in a very fuzzy looking glass with ice cubes in it. I got so excited. I was like, it's Friday. I'm going to go get some whiskey down from the cabinet, but now I'm not going to. Well, I did a collaboration with Estee Lauder quite a few years ago and when they approached me I was so excited because I've loved beauty for longer than I can remember and they came to see me in LA and I had spent years obsessing over beauty and I had an entire dining room table full of makeup that I collected little samples that makeup artists had mixed for me products that had been discontinued and I think they were probably well I know they were very surprised at how obsessed with product I really was having worked with the best makeup artist in the industry since I was probably about 18 years old you know working with the Spice Girls so I really had a point of view of what I wanted to create so I created a little collection with Estée Lauder that was an enormous success that proved that there was an appetite for Victoria's But I knew that to do it in the way that I wanted to do it, I had to do it on my own, you know, with a strong focus on clean.

22:16So really looking at the formulas and making sure that the products, you know, did what I wanted them to do, but that I was really paying attention to the formulas and the ingredients and also being inclusive. And I knew that to do it in my way, I had to do it on my own. So then I started my own brand. Did you raise money separately to do that? I did. Yes, I did. I did. And for me, it was always important that the product had to be good. It was always about the product and really focusing on the formulas and not compromising. And yeah, it's been incredible. I enjoy the process so much. And it's a really fast growing business.

22:59Isn't that right? Yes. Yeah, it has. And we recently launched fragrance as well. And again, you know, that is not a license. That is something that I own myself as as is the beauty. And I've been working on those fragrances for for eight years now. And I've taken my time with them because for me, it was about making sure that I knew how to execute myself before putting anything out there, you know, really taking my time and not compromising. I think that's the thing is about not compromising. And then sometimes that makes growth slower, right? You know, that's been the same in my case too. Like certain things have come out and I'm like, this is not ready.

23:39Like we're not going to release this, you know? Yeah, I agree. I agree. Ultimately, I want to be honest and I think it's about not rushing. Right. Who is your customer? Like describe her to me. I would say you know it's interesting because I recently did a high street collaboration and which one with mango with mango and I think it's interesting because just when you think you know who your customer is you're then introduced to a whole new demographic who then becomes your customer yeah so it's hard to say exactly how old she is or who is she you know I want to empower predominantly women, but men as well of all different, of all different ages.

24:25And as time goes on, you know, and as my collections evolve, both with fashion and with beauty, I think that brings a whole new, new demographic and introduce it to new communities along the way. Are your kids into, are they curious about business and like with you and David, you know, as sort of leading the way, did they, where, where do you think they might go into? They all have different, different interests and want to do different things, you know, which is great. And it's, you know, to, to support them. And yeah, it would be hard to say which one. I mean, they all do such different things, you know, Brooklyn is interested in business.

25:06Romeo is, is currently playing soccer and then we've got Cruz who's into music and, And Harper, who is absolutely beauty obsessed. So she'll take over your beauty business. Do you guys live in London? Where do you live? We live in London, but we travel a lot. So I go between London and Paris. Okay. My beauty team are based in New York. So I spend a bit of time, a lot of time in New York, actually. And then we also spend time in Miami because my husband owns a football club. football club there with that messy joined right correct yeah and so we love spending time in miami so we travel quite a lot but most of the time i'd say i'm between london and new york and where does harper what where does she go to school in london or london london right yeah yeah she does how long have you guys been married now we have been we're about to be married 25 years.

26:05Oh my gosh. Wow. Yeah. The 27 years together, 27. Right. It was, Oh, that was so sweet in the documentary watching you. I mean, you, you look, you looked so young. So sweet. I know. I know. So what's the, what's the secret? I mean, you guys have been together a long time. how do you keep orienting back towards each other? Yeah. I think that, do you know, we enjoy each other's company. You can tell. I mean, you can see that, I mean, in the documentary. You know, I think that we have so much respect for each other and each other's careers and passions. And I mean, I couldn't do what I do if I didn't have a husband that was so supportive yeah you know he has supported me on so many levels and I do the same for him you know I want I want to make him feel like the best version of himself and he does the same for me and we both work really hard try to be the best parents that we can yeah fundamentally we share the same values we really do we work hard but we like to laugh as well we have a lot of fun together we really do and I think that's important we genuinely enjoy each other's company you know and I love him more now than gosh when I first met him you know we've grown together and I feel very thankful and grateful that I've done so much in my career and given so much to my children but it hasn't been at the compromise of my relationship yeah it's like a juggling act you know what it's like when you're trying to work and be a mom and be a wife.

27:53Yeah. Yeah. So what are there little things that like, what are the, what are the things that you do or the rules that you have around? Like, I don't know, like, are there, are there things that you guys practice to keep the marriage always like on a nice bubble? Like, do you, do you travel a lot? Like, do you have kids trips away from the kids ever or anything like that? Yeah, we like, we like to do that. spend as much time together as we can, you know, I think is really important. You know, when we're in London, you know, as a family, we make sure that we regularly, you know, we're always eating dinner together, you know, us and the children and talking about our day.

28:32And, you know, it's basic things like that, that I think are really, really important. Yeah. You know what I had never realized was how awful the press was to David when he was doing, going through all that world cup stuff. So do you have like, what are your tools to get through something tough like that now? Or then like, do you have therapy or do you meditate or do you like, is David just your guy that you sort of process through stuff with? Like, how do you get through those tougher times? I mean, I think, isn't that the great thing about getting older? You really give a shit less. How do you get through it?

29:14I really couldn't care less. If you don't like me, fair enough. I like me and that's good. Well, that's what happens when you turn 50. You'll see like, first it happens a little bit when you turn 40, but when you, like you'll see now that you're 50, you'll be like, I don't give a fuck. Like so good. So freeing. And isn't that great? But you know, that's not the case when you're younger and you, you know, you're vulnerable. And it was happening to us when we had a little baby and you feel protective over that child. And so, you know, it was, it was certainly a moment. And the British press is really like in a league of their own.

29:55I mean, you know, I lived there for a long time. It was, it's crazy. I didn't know you lived in London. I did. I lived in London for like 10 years. I lived in Belsize Park. Oh my goodness. Yeah, my daughter was born there. And I think I was there when you were here a lot. When did you live in LA? Gosh, when was that? I think 2007 we moved to LA. Yeah. So I was in London when you were here. I loved living in LA. We used to, you talked about hiking earlier. I mean, we used to love hiking. We used to hike all the time. Half used to sit in one of those little things on David's front. Yeah. The baby Bjorn thing.

30:43Yes. Yes. What did you love about living in LA? We just loved it. I mean, we lived in Spain for four years and moved to LA. So moving to LA, was great I feel that that's really where I you know accepted and and and began to to love me you know I feel that I really I loved my time in LA is where I really focused on my brand got to know myself I used to go to the crystal farm I don't even know if it's still there there was a crystal farm along the PCH on the way to Malibu by Topanga and I used to love going to the crystal farm and I filled my house with crystals and I just love the energy of LA.

31:29It really does bring back really happy memories. I loved it. And actually that, that was the story behind one of my fragrances, San Ysidro Drive. Oh, this is all about my time in LA and me loving me, you know, for the first time, probably. What do you think it was about LA that kind of opened that door for you to love yourself? I don't know. I don't know. I just, I, from the moment that we arrived, you know, we just, we just loved it. I met really great people there. Like I said, I really started to focus on, on the fashion and it was just such a, we had a great life, you know, with children, you know, I had half of when I was in LA, but the boys were, went to great schools and we used to hike a lot and we'd go surfing.

32:16We really enjoyed the LA lifestyle and met great people when we lived there. Do you come back ever? We do. I mean, not as much as I would like, but we do come. Brooklyn lives in LA. My son lives there. Oh. Yeah. So where was that gorgeous country house in the documentary? That's in Oxfordshire. In Oxfordshire. It's about an hour and a half outside of London. It looks beautiful. It's so nice. So we go between London and Oxfordshire when we're there. Do you go weekends? Yeah. Yeah. we try to as much as we can yeah so what is your experience of being an expat like whether it's spain or la like if there's ever discomfort like or comfort what is it that you have liked or not liked about being an expat i mean i'm very social so i really you know everywhere that we've lived i've met great people and i'm always really thankful are you open with people like are you trusting or does it take a while?

33:19I'm really trusting, probably too trusting and probably too. People often say, God, I bet you don't trust anyone. I really do. For me, everyone is nice and honest and trustworthy until they prove otherwise. I enjoy meeting people and I've met great people, whether that's living in London, Spain, or LA, you know. I have a question for you from my beauty team who are obsessed. Okay. They want to know what sorcery you put in your lip liners. Oh, what's the lip liner? The lip liners are great. No, they are obsessed. I love your, this, the oil cleanser. Oh, thank you. Yeah. The cleansers are great.

34:08Have been. Thank you so much. But what's with these lip liners? You know, I just I obsess over every single detail, every formula, you know, I've been wearing makeup. And like I said, working with the best makeup artists for for longer than I can remember. And for me, it's about the little details. And, and I'm a perfectionist, you know, and I think for me, I just I never want to compromise. I obsess over every single detail. So ultimately by the time I put anything out there, I do believe it's the best in class, you know, what is it? What's in the lip liner that makes it so everyone's so obsessed with it.