Rashida Jones on Identity and Growing up in Hollyweird

0:02When you are pioneering anything or introducing new ideas to the culture, you get criticized. You do? Yeah. Did you hear about that? I didn't find the one. I found someone I respected and we made it the one. In a sort of longing kind of view of love, people understand each other as if by magic. Nothing in itself is addictive on the one hand. On the other hand, everything could be addictive if there's an emptiness in that person that needs to be filled. I now know that nobody changes until they change their energy. And when you change your energy, you change your life. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow. This is the Goop Podcast, bringing together thought leaders, culture changers, creatives, founders, and CEOs, scientists, doctors, healers, and seekers here to start conversations because simply asking questions and listening has the power to change the way we see the world.

0:58Here we go. Today, I'm talking to my dear friend, the actor, writer, and producer Rashida Jones. You may have initially fallen in love with her when she played Karen in The Office, or maybe as Ann Perkins when she was in Parks and Rec. I am currently obsessed with her new Apple TV Plus series. It's called Sunny. She stars in it and is also an executive producer. And I loved asking Rashida about the show and what it was like to move to Japan for six months and live there while filming. We talked about what helped Rashida stay grounded while growing up in Hollywood with famous parents, her philosophy on wellness, her experience becoming a mother at 42, and why she ultimately said yes to making an amazing documentary about her father, Quincy Jones.

1:53It was so fun having Rashida on the podcast, so let's just get right to it.

2:01Welcome to the Goop Podcast, Rashida Jones. Thank you so much. I'm so happy you're here. I'm so happy to be here. This has been a long time coming. It really has. I've wanted you on this pod for quite some time. I've wanted to be in this pod. So I've known you for a really long time. And you're one of those people that's just like a rudder in the lives of your friends. You know? Like you're so... You are there. You're present. you're solid you're directional I'm just so impressed with who you are you know year after year and decade after decade that's so nice and like thank you you come from this entertainment family obviously your dad is Quincy Jones your beautiful mom Peggy who's not with us anymore how did you you know because your dad's like a full artist I know your mom was around a lot But how, you know, a lot of kids who come from these kind of, quote, Hollywood situations are like nowhere near as grounded as you are.

3:09So I'm just kind of wondering also just for my own purposes of being a parent and stuff. How did that happen? Did you come out that way? I think some of it is. Yeah, I think some of it's kind of preordained. I think I kind of came in, you know, with your kids. like you kind of are who you are from day one and then there's like things you can do like keep them alive and guide them towards their truth but but there there was something there is a thread from the beginning but I also think and you know this too like we've kind of seen the spectrum of what's possible with growing up in this very in hollyweird and like what kind of parenting you have to do to shield your kids from it enough, but have them have them experience enough on their own that they sort of make better decisions for themselves.

4:00Like it's a little bit of like a push and pull of independence. And my parents were very grounded. They were very around. They did not want us to be spoiled. They didn't want us to feel like we were entitled to anything really. How did they execute that? like and by the way that's that's not to say we didn't want that because of course you see what your peers have and you're like why don't i have these all these things they like we didn't have a credit card when we were teenage teenagers you know we didn't have like a big brand new car with a bow on it for our 16th birthday i think they were really intentional about their small community in so many ways.

4:46But you know, we're biracial. It was the 70s. I mean, when you actually look historically, it's so weird, because Loving versus Virginia, which made interracial marriage legal was 1967. My parents got together in 1973. Wow. It's not that long after. So I think for them, it's really important that we knew that it was okay. And it felt normal to be biracial. So, you know they surrounded us with friends that they just happened to also love and were in the same business and same town as so we could kind of see older kids that look like us and loved each other and loved their parents and loved all of their cultures and one so they were just super intentional about who they surrounded us with and also you know it was a different time it was the 70s like to me was the kind of like halcyon days of california so it wasn't now la stands for something slightly different there was more of like sure there was like glitz and glamour and people were obsessed with fame but there was also the artists who came there to to work and be part of something bigger than them and there was like film and cinema and you know it did feel glamorous in a sense it wasn't like it wasn't just a it wasn't content it wasn't about content those days you know and and disposable content right there was an idealism this is more sort of a it content feels like a business proposition it's funny i remember trying to explain to my kids like you know when i was little like i have this really strong memory of like maya rudolph our mutual old friend who was obsessed with prince and we were like counting down the days until the purple rain album came out and then we were like we walked to the record store in westwood like waited online you know and the anticipation that you had this artist that and now it's like people someone can just have an idea and put it on whatever it's called soundcloud right so and and people and or or my kids say oh i know that song from tiktok when they play a 10 second snippet of a song where you used to sit down and listen to a whole entire album flip it over listen to the rest of it the go-go's like i think about like waiting and waiting for that record to come out do you remember making mixtapes and how you have to like they would get like twisted and you have to fold them back and flip them over and make sure like the song was long enough for that side and then flip it over and and also like to curate your taste was so difficult because you have to have like your record and your other tape and then you'd have to like make sure that each song fit and it was the right vibe and now you could just like make a playlist in 45 seconds so how do you reconcile those two very different ways to approach art like having grown up in the sort of more analog more intentional you know surrounded by those kinds of artists and then when you think about you know today when you think about the world that your son will grow up in and there's these like bite-sized disposable does that like what do you think is happening to the state of art it's kind of a weird conundrum and actually feels like part of my growth of as a human being to accept that there is an inevitable evolution you know I mean people were scared of cameras when they first came out so in some respects I think and tv right tv yeah and and all of it so i feel like your job as an soon-to-be elder my job is a soon-to-be elder gen x or is to is to sort of like yes instill my son and and you know make sure my life is sort of like based in the things that are the values that are important to me and then to also kind of be able to see what else is out there in a way where i'm not judging it and deciding that that's going to destroy everything yeah so like there are things about technology about the future about i don't know innovation that are interesting to me and i don't i feel like when you fully reject that stuff it's like it's it's a wrap for you yeah you can't be so hardcore about it that you yeah you know you make yourself completely irrelevant because you refuse to accept the reality of the moment you know yeah and I think I don't know growing older in that way is so interesting to me because it's almost like you go through the first half of your life so you know you're learning you're absorbing you're open-minded you're you're sort of connecting dots and like filling in a picture for yourself of what life is and what art is and then it's like you get really comfortable with that.

9:37And then that becomes your paradigm. So when they say, oh, AI is coming or, you know, whatever, these new technologies are coming. Right. And I think that's the trap of like, I think about my grandpa Buster, who was like, this country is going to hell, you know, because like the internet was starting or he had heard that, you know, and it's like, yes, meaning we do have this tendency to like preserve those things that are relics of our or like nostalgic for us because we found so much value in them but maybe there's you know for our kids like a different way to I don't know like to me I'm so allergic to TikTok I've never tried it it's pretty great I know you said that before like I mean like everything it's not it's all great but there's a lot about it that's really great.

10:29What do you love about it? It reminds me of watching TV when I was a kid. When you get up and change the channel? Well, no, but I mean the feeling of like changing the channel constantly. And, you know, I just, I'm not on it as a creator. I just troll it. And I just get to see so many different perspectives, people from all over the world. There's so much like funny comedy. There's great dancing. There's cute babies and animals. And then there's like good health yeah all the stuff you love all the stuff you love and i do feel like it is the right now at least i mean we'll see what happens but it is the social media that most reflects your state of being so if i'm there to just kind of like learn things about my gut health and find frequencies to make me happy and heal me that's what i'll get served but what how do you know that it's like proper gut health info you don't it's not some like whack you don't you have to try you got to do some research but it's a place to start okay like for instance i learned that magnesium oil is a great deodorant on tiktok is it yes oh my god it doesn't it doesn't help you from not sweating but it's like gets rid of all the stink yeah yeah it's great okay so okay before i move on to the next thing I wanted to talk to you about just going back to growing up in this family.

11:55Like, did you, I mean, sometimes you talk about like, Oh, when I like hung out with Michael Jackson, when I was 11 or whatever, like you were, I mean, people ask, I mean, my parents were not as famous as your parents. And, but I, you know, I grew up with well-known people in the house, not like Michael Jackson level, but, but people ask that of my kids all the time. Like, Oh my my God, you like. What's it like? Yeah. What do they say? They say, like Moses was asked it recently and had a very thoughtful answer. He was like, you know, obviously I'm always honored and amazed to meet an artist that I admire.

12:35Like he was saying about your husband. And it's also a person. Right. You know, so. Everybody's a person. Everybody's a person. and he knows that his life is absolutely abnormal and he has this incredible, you know, kind of place in the world where he gets to meet these very accomplished grownups and they just happen to be in very visible fields. Yeah. Did you feel like, was it, what was it like for you? I think, I don't think I thought it was weird. I mean, that's amazing. he has so much perspective because I don't think I knew it was weird for a long time. I think maybe college is the first time I was like, oh, okay.

13:18That's not, not everybody had those people in their house. Because how would I know? I mean, I grew up in LA. Everybody knows somebody in LA, even in a fringe way. But also, again, like my parents weren't, we weren't like on the red carpet. And like, you know, the intention wasn't to hang out with famous people. You know, my dad was in his 40s when he had us, and Thriller came out when he was 50. Wow. So before that, he had this big, wonderful career, but there wasn't a fame element. He was sort of like ancillary to people who were more famous. More behind the scenes. Yes. Right. But then when he won all those Grammys for Thriller, he became a lot more, you know, Facing.

14:05Public-facing, recognizable. Right. so I don't I don't feel like I grew up with like super famous parents because they weren't I don't think they that was not their currency right my mom was very famous when she was really young yeah and then she kind of pulled back smart wanted to be a mom I get it she was it made her feel anxious yeah it made her feel anxious so I've always had a very suspicious relationship with fame. It's like, why didn't I just go be a lawyer or something? But I think it says a lot about you because and how you've manifested your career because you're so talented. And you had this kind of like, very well, I mean, you know, from observing, it's like, it was well thought out.

14:53You didn't go for like, the super commercial, you know, things that would make you like, super famous. I mean, obviously you're famous, but you made these thoughtful, artful choices and you were writing and I don't know, I felt like you were always doing it for the work itself. Well, I mean, thanks for saying that, but you know, so much of it is luck. It's the jobs that you get. So I think for me, the luck is in the fact that I didn't get a lot of jobs early on. Like I didn't, there was no meteoric path for me because I was just kind of getting the jobs that I was getting. And they were all sort of like pounding the pavement, getting a guest star here, getting a couple commercials here.

15:39So it was like, I got lucky in the sense that nothing like shot me out of a cannon. Yeah. You know, I think that's so great because then you have time to metabolize what's happening. You grow into yourself as you're getting more well-known. It was frustrating when I was younger. I was like, why are all these people getting parts? Whatever. But I'm looking back, I'm so grateful that I didn't get parts because it meant that I had to do things like, hang on, I want to be a writer, but how do I even start doing that? Let me do it when I'm not getting auditions. You know, like, let me write something for myself.

16:14It feels like everything in my career came out of necessity yeah in a way so then what would you say was like the turning point from you being like this journeyman you know into like oh my god now i have i'm established i have a career a career where people were like you know where you started to have agency like and be able to make choices yeah oh my god i think well i you know probably not until i i almost quit so many times but i almost quit when I was 30. I was going to apply to go to grad school. For what? For public policy, perhaps government, considering law school, but that felt a little far-fetched.

16:58But oh, you're so smart. She went to Harvard, guys. Yeah, I don't know. I was just like, this feels like, I remember my dad said to me, I've said this before, but when I was graduating, I said, I think I'm going to try to act. He was like, why would you go wait in line with 70 ,000 other people for a job? That seems so crazy. What a waste of your brain. I'm like, not wrong, not wrong. But I had that feeling again, 10 years later. I was like, he's right. Like, I'm going to spend all of my time begging other people for a job they don't want to give me. Like, I've got to be more than that, right?

17:33I have to have a life that's more than that. It's pretty, it's gnarly to be an actor in that way. You do have to get so tough-skinned about rejection like you just have no choice I mean so that's why I just I really respect actors because you know that every every actor you know has been through it like very very rarely do people just get all the jobs that they're you know that they go out for but so probably like the office was the first thing that you know that that made me feel like okay okay and there's something here how did you get that role tell tell us the story because surely because you'd lived in england you knew the english office not only did i know it i worshipped it same and one of my greatest friends from college mike sure left new york to go right for the u.s office and i was like that's a terrible idea why would you do that you're gonna mess with the perfect series like what's wrong with you and you know I think like everything back when people used to make tv the first they were kind of embattled their first season like I think a lot of people were like oh it's not the UK office it's this whole thing and then it like found its thing and it was so much its own thing and it was so great and Steve Carell is just inspired in that part.

18:57I mean, born for that part. He's so good. But anyway, so I watched it as a fan and was like happy for my friend writing for the show. Like, oh, great. They did it. Like they pulled it off, you know. And then it was a thing. It was already a thing. And so I got an audition and I just kind of like, okay, I have to go in because I like the show. And, you know, it was, I wish Mike was like, here, you're my friend. Here's the part. That did not happen. Thanks, Mike. Thanks, Mike. He's a very ethical human being, which I appreciate about him. But I went in so many times. Oh, I see that. So many times and read with everybody and did a ton of chemistry reads.

19:37And Greg Daniels, who's the creator of the show, he just couldn't make up his mind. He just couldn't. Do you know who else it was between? There was a couple other girls. The role was written for a sort of like waspy Connecticut girl. kind of like supposed to be sort of the opposite of like Scranton and Pam and all that kind of stuff so I was not like foregone conclusion the right choice for that job but I think the thing that sealed it was I did a chemistry read with Jenna who plays Pam and our dynamic like there was something there like there felt like there was like a tension there like a like a like a desire to get along but also a tension there that was like really good for the love triangle and that felt like the, they were like, oh, this is a, this is a thing.

20:22This like really works. So, but I was, you know, I went in so many times. I was terrified. I was so nervous. I had to do so much psyching myself up. Did you really want it? My stomach was in knots. I really wanted it because I knew I had this feeling that I could play this part and that it would mean something to my life and my career. And like, that's the thing you always want as an actor and you don't want to admit it. I don't want to admit it. Cause I was like, I'm going to go back to school and forget it. It's not worth it. So it was like, I was like, you know, holding on to the sort of like pride, but in my, in my deepest vulnerability, I really wanted it.

20:55So it was when I got it, I, I was really, really happy. I was really happy. And then even then, you know, What year was this?

21:072006, six, maybe 2006. But, but even then I had heard the stories were that, you know, know they were still figuring out the show and they would hire people for guest roles and then they would get fired because it wasn't like the right vibe right so my first two weeks on the show i was tense and afraid to get fired which doesn't make for great work yeah yeah not not great creatively yeah but i also had like some time you know in the beginning we're in a different office so i didn't i wasn't like immediately bombarded with all those great characters like i think had I walked into the space that was like the office that I knew, I would have freaked out.

21:47But I had a little bit of time to sort of like, like Ed Helms and I were both like new to the show. And we were both like freaked out, nervous, excited to be there. We could kind of like hold on to each other and, you know, figure it out. Yeah. So that was sort of like a big turning point. And then tell me when the writing really started. Yeah, that was, again, out of necessity, the strike of 2007, writer's strike. There was no auditions. There was nothing happening. And I was kind of in this holding deal, holding pattern where I was like in a unspecified deal with Mike Schur to be on a show possibly, but nothing was happening.

22:32and it was, you know, months and months and months. And Will McCormick, my best friend, who you know and love, we had both wanted to write for a really long time. And we'd never really, well, I had never really finished anything. And so we just kind of, we had this idea. We just decided we would sit down and write it until it was finished. And guess what? Nobody cares about a writer with a, I mean, sorry, an actor with a script in LA. Like what actor is not writing a script? So there was no pressure. It wasn't like, oh, we're, you know, we're on deadline or like people need this. Like nobody cared, which is great.

23:05You know, nobody cared. There was no work happening. And so we were just committed to finishing it and we finished it. And then we, as I think is appropriate to do, give it to all the people that you trust, who've read a lot, who've written a lot. We give it to a ton of friends and got as many notes as we could. We did a table read. We just did everything we could to make it the best that it could be. And then we went out with it and people wanted it. So that was like, oh, wow. I mean, there was one kind of flattering moment where there was a company that wanted to buy it, but they didn't want me in it.

23:38And I was like, okay, that's, it sucks. Because it's like, I'm not a big enough actress for them to finance the movie, but it's flattering. You're like, oh, they just want my writing. That's so cool, you know? I think that's what happened with the Goodwill hunting thing. That, like, people wanted the script, but they didn't want those guys in it. Wow. Yeah. And you do have to kind of fight hard. And then you have to like accept a sort of smaller budget, which is fine. And so we made Sles and Jessie forever. Yep. Great movie. For$840 ,000. That's insane. But like, you know, it's still the proudest, best thing.

24:12It's so good. Thank you. Highly recommend. I mean, what year did that come out? 2011. And so when did you finish on The Office? I was there just for a year. I was a guest star for a year. And then it was sort of like there was no way for me to stay. I was the third point in a love triangle, and everybody wanted Pam and Jim to be together. So there was no future for me. And I was sad, but I learned so much. And watching Steve perform was like a gift to watch him perform every day, because whatever ended up in the show was like a fraction of what he was doing on set. I mean, he's like a virtuoso.

24:47I mean, incredible, incredible performer. Funny, weird, dark, like original, you know? Did you ever ask him how he did that? I don't even know if he'd be able to explain it. I'm always so fascinated about these actors that have, I think it's especially comedians who have this like incredible facility with timing and facial expressions and like goofy stuff. And I'm just like, how are you, how? Bravery. It's bravery. Yeah. Because it's all, you don't know if it's going to land. You don't know if it's going to be funny. all you know is that you're like gonna push everything to its like extreme in every way you know yeah and i think it's comedy feels like the most instinctive like i'm sure people can learn how to be funny but that sort of funny where you're like like that funny bone talent yeah i yeah i mean and that must have been so cool to watch so cool i just i just am so bad because i I laugh like I break yeah it's so terrible I don't it's fine that's so sweet it's not it's so like people broke on the office all the time and parks because we were trying to make each other laugh you know yeah wait so then when was parks so parks started right a writer on that too no no just okay yeah just an actor but there was like so much love between the writer's room and the actors and everybody like there was a lot of like very young people on parks the staff writers were all there was like a ton in their 20s and a lot of the you know a lot of the cast members aubrey and aziz were super young when they started that show maybe 24 25 but that started in 2000 this is a real challenge i feel like this is i'm not gonna get this pop quiz 2008 maybe we shot the pilot.

26:36And then we got picked up for six episodes. It was super fun, but like critics were mixed about the show. They were like, it's not The Office. And I think there was like confusion because I was on both and it was supposed, they thought it was a spinoff, but it wasn't a spinoff. They had to do so much like corrective press and whatever. Oh Lord. I know, Lord. But again, you know, the beauty, the, just the heaven of being able to work with Amy, who is already my friend my very good friend that's so great so we went into that with our friendship and we got to like bring that friendship to the show which is so cool i need to like really get into parks oh it's a i've only seen like i know and i've i've always wanted to like i'm gonna download it and i'm gonna it's it's great yeah and it's you'll get through it so fast do you have your kids watched it i feel like it's a lot of like my friend's teenagers like their first like binge Yeah.

27:31It's like friends or like, you know. I'm going to, maybe we'll watch it as a family before I get fully abandoned. Your last right as a mom. We'll be watching parks and recreation. So cute. It's very heartfelt. You can cry together. Sweet. It's very sweet. Okay. I'm going to get into that one. At Goop, we believe the spaces we spend time in shape how we feel and how we connect. That's why we're drawn to convene. A global hospitality brand reimagining work in meeting spaces centered around design and care. Comveen's sophisticated, purpose-built locations are designed to inspire connection, whether it's a board meeting for 10, a team off-site, or a workplace membership that gives you and your team a home base.

28:18With hospitality at its core, every detail is taken care of, so your in-person time feels seamless, elevated, and intentional. If you're looking for a new workspace or planning your next off-site or meeting, schedule a tour today at convene.com. And for our Goop listeners, mention Goop to receive up to$500 off your next meeting or event reservation rental fee. This promotion is valid for all new clients on select spaces booked and actualized prior to December 30th, 2025 and subject to availability. Convene, for the moments that move your business. so let's talk about your new show that's on apple do i say apple tv apple tv plus apple tv plus called sunny that i am obsessed with i just started it i'm two episodes in so i'm one behind like it's so good and interesting and original you play this i well i'm not gonna i think there's going to be some kind of twist but presumably you play this a woman who gets widowed at the beginning of the show and it's it takes place in the future in Kyoto right you're living in Kyoto to a Japanese man you have a sweet little son yeah and then something bad happens and then you they're in a plane crash okay yeah I could say that okay they're in a plane crash and then you are given the gift of your own homebot, a robot lady.

29:53But it's very, it's got this great tone. It's mysterious. Like I'm dying to know what happens. I told you in the kitchen. No, you had really good, really good guesses. Okay. I didn't say yes or no. You had a poker face. So that was good. How did you find this project? It came to me, Katie Robbins, who created it, great writer. She and Lucy Cherniak, who directed it had, I think they had been developing it for a while. So it came to me as a lot of scripts were already done. There was a deck. There was a playlist, like a very rich. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, like it was already imagined. What was on the playlist?

30:31Like really cool, weird, like Japanese doo-wop. Wow. Like cool stuff from the 60s. Like the credits, opening credits? Yes. Kind of. Okay. So like the whole show had this like retro, futuristic, slightly 60s, slightly near future vibe. Like a very sort of like warm, nighttime, noir, kind of pulpy vision of the future. And it was just already, I could see the show already, which is so nice because you don't ever get to plug in. That's unique. In that way. Yeah. And also, and the character is so unlike me. Yeah. and so unlikable. And I've never... Do you think? Well, in a way, yeah. I just think she's lonely.

31:17She's isolated. She's working through a lot of stuff. Even in the flashbacks. She's defensive, though, about it. Yeah, it's true. The flashbacks, she's way softer. Yeah, the flashbacks you get... I mean, she's still sort of... Yeah, spicy. She's got like chutzpah, but you get a sense of like the emerging sides of her as you go through. But I don't think she's unlikable. Okay, good. That's good. Because I wondered if I could play something like that and then bring both sides, basically. Like, could I make somebody who on paper might be a bit, you know, ornery? And I mean, she's definitely a misanthrope.

31:59She definitely pushes people away. If I could make that person warm or relatable or vulnerable. Well, except I guess it doesn't read like that because you're like pushing away a robot and that is inherently annoying. I know, but even in my meet cute, I push away my husband. Yeah, I guess that's true. Well, the mystery of how this is unfolding, like I'm on the edge of my seat. And it's a cool combo to have that kind of like, oh my God, cliffhanger sort of situation with this like very cool, like it looks beautiful. The characters are amazing. and it's very it's like indie but it's also like very like oh my god what's gonna happen next yeah yes there's something like sort of like it feels like graphic novel-ish in that way where it's like everything's sort of like larger than life and it looks really beautiful there's a lot of like japanese wish fulfillment as an outsider as a foreigner and like we shot you know we shot in Kyoto and it was the middle of the summer which is unbearable heat but also that their borders weren't open to tourists when we were there right so we shot in the old part of Kyoto which just never happens I've been told empty streets of me just walking in Gion with like the most beautiful ancient pagodas and you know Edo period bridges and just like things that you just can't I mean And most people don't have access to.

33:31So it's like the nicest thing to be able to see that. Even if you're watching the mystery and you're like, you want to know what's going to happen, it doesn't mean you can't enjoy it along the way. What is it like to pack up and move to Japan for six months? I was really excited. I love Japan. Japan is amazing. I do too. But every time I go there, I'm like, this is another planet. It's another planet, yeah. So how did you, I don't know. It seems like so brave to like pack your husband and kid. I was so ready. I was so ready. Maybe that's like, maybe that's how I'm like the character. I just, I was so ready to have a completely different experience.

34:09And also to feel, in some ways to feel kind of like an outsider. I kind of liked, I liked the feeling there of being sort of on my own. And, you know, I try desperately to understand the language. It's really hard to learn. People are so nice. They're so kind and accepting and generous and hardworking. The crews were so amazing that I think had I not had that, maybe it would have felt really weird, but I felt like I had a lot of support there. And did you live in a hotel when you were? No, we lived in a house. You got a house in Tokyo. We got a house in Tokyo. And we had a house in Kyoto when we were filming there, which is beautiful, old, like traditional Japanese house.

34:50So you were able to really settle into life there. Yeah. And what did you learn from being in that culture? Oh my God. I had an ongoing list on my phone that was like things I want to remember about living in Japan. Like just lists of things, everything from, you know, practical things like you go to the gym there, you have to have your own gym shoes. You cannot wear your outside shoes in the gym. I mean, that's the best thing I've ever heard. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Don't track your dog shit onto my Stairmaster. a memoir by Gwyneth Paltrow. Yeah, it's like, you know, there's so much consideration of what it means to live in a society together in Japan.

35:37So that was sort of a big thing. Like there's a simplicity, there's a focus on details and like whether it's ceremony or like a ritual or you're in a store, like the amount of attention to detail is so relaxing to me. You know, like it really is, it's so different than like, there's a slowing down there. Even though like Tokyo is a big city and a lot of fun things are happening, you have to slow down. You're not just gonna go run in and get something. I mean, maybe at like a convenience store, but you have to be okay with like the process of something. And same with like, you know, all of the artistry.