In short
The Goop Podcast: Episode Summary
Episode Title
Staying True to Yourself
Episode Description
In this episode, Symone Sanders, author, seasoned Democratic strategist, and host of "Symone" on MSNBC, shares her journey to becoming the youngest presidential press secretary at age 25. She discusses her motivations for entering politics and media, self-care in a high-pressure environment, and offers advice to young people seeking to create positive changes in their communities.
Key Themes and Takeaways
- Path to Politics and Media
- Early Influences:
- Symone grew up in North Omaha, Nebraska, without a political family background but was heavily influenced by her mother’s community involvement.
- She gained initial political experience during her college internship at the mayor’s office, which sparked her interest in politics.
- Significant Moment:
- Engaging in a recall campaign during her internship allowed her to meet influential figures and understand the political landscape.
- Challenges in the Media Landscape
- Representation:
- Symone highlights the importance of diverse voices in delivering news and the necessity of breaking stereotypes in media representation.
- Navigating Barriers:
- She recounts experiences with agents questioning her "palatability" for cable TV and emphasizes the need for authenticity over conforming to expectations.
- Self-Care in High-Pressure Environments
- Managing Stress:
- Symone discusses coping mechanisms during difficult news cycles, such as taking breaks from the news and ensuring time for personal interests.
- She emphasizes the importance of not working during personal downtime, such as at the nail salon.
- Emotional Moments:
- An instance where she broke down on air while discussing victims of gun violence illustrates the emotional toll of covering heavy news.
- Advice for Young People
- Engagement in Politics:
- Symone encourages young individuals to engage in politics and activism, highlighting that significant changes often stem from youth involvement.
- Finding Hope:
- She stresses the necessity of hope amidst challenges and the role of young people in bringing about change in society.
- Outlook on News Consumption
- Changing Dynamics:
- Symone discusses the evolving landscape of news consumption, emphasizing traditional news viewing alongside digital platforms for a well-rounded perspective.
- Misinformation Awareness:
- The responsibility of media personalities to provide accurate information is underscored, along with the potential dangers of misinformation in the current digital age.
Conclusion In the episode, Cleo Wade and Symone Sanders engage in a heartfelt conversation about the intersections of politics, media, and personal wellness. Symone's insights into her career path, the importance of representation, and self-care resonate deeply, particularly for young listeners aspiring to make a difference in their communities.
Tune-In Information
- Watch "Symone" on MSNBC: Saturdays and Sundays at 4 PM Eastern.
- Episodes also available on Peacock every Monday.
Call to Action Listeners are encouraged to engage with the episode's themes, reflect on their personal journeys, and seek ways to contribute positively to their communities while prioritizing self-care.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Chronic migraine. 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more, can make me feel like a spectator in my own life. Botox, onabotulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It's the number one prescribed branded chronic migraine preventive treatment. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition.
0:30Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor, visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com, or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more.
1:02Bumble, the sponsor of today's episode is the go-to dating app for finding intentional love. Something we often explore here is how transformation comes after change, the work, the healing, the lessons that help you feel ready for connection. For many people, that's the step before dating, the work before the leap. And when you are ready, Bumble can be that safe space to take that leap at your own pace. What I love is how intentional the app is. Everyone who joins goes through photo and phone number verification so you know you're talking to someone real. And with ID verification you can be sure their age as well as their photos are real too.
1:47Plus Bumble has a dating advice hub built right into the app like having a dating expert in your pocket to support you at every stage of the journey so you can feel confident as you put yourself back out there. At the heart of it, it's about saying yes to the unknown. Even love after separation isn't the end of the story. It's the chance to begin again with more clarity, more intention, and more confidence in what you want. That's what Bumble makes possible. Bumble gives you the tools to make that chapter your own, And maybe it reminds us that love is always worth choosing again. Start your love story again on Bumble.
2:34Don't hold anything too tightly. Just wish for it, want it, let it come from the intention of real truth for you, and then let it go. For me, our soul is like it's unbound. It's limitless. but we will use words to limit ourselves. When people stop believing that somebody's got your back or Superman's coming, we turn to ourselves and that's where you become empowered. Courageous participation attracts positive things. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow and this is the Goop Podcast where we bring together visionaries, scientists, healers, artists, and seekers. I'm so grateful that I get to interview these extraordinary thought leaders and share their wisdom with you.
3:22And I love listening to the conversations that are led by my co-host and dear friend, Cleo Wade. Cleo is a beautiful poet and author. I deeply admire her and the way she keeps her heart open to the world. Together, we believe that engaging in open-minded, honest, and sometimes difficult conversations has the power to change our lives. All right, over to Cleo. Today's guest is my friend, Simone Sanders. Simone is an author, a seasoned Democratic strategist, and the host of the MSNBC show called Simone, which airs at 4 p.m. Eastern on Saturdays and Sundays. Simone joins me today to talk about her path to becoming the youngest presidential press secretary on record and what it's like to work in a high-pressure industry at such a young age.
4:16We also talked about how she takes care of herself while processing the news and her hope and advice for young people looking to make a positive impact in their communities and in the world. Okay, let's get to Simone Sanders.
4:36Okay, Simone Sanders, I'm so happy to have you on the Goop podcast. I want to talk about so many things because something I have really focused on since joining the Goop podcast is people who have had really unique journeys to get to where they have gotten to in such an incredible, high achieving, singular way. And you are certainly one of those people. So I'm honored that you've taken the time to sit with us. I know you're so busy, especially in today's world, but I want to talk to you about a few things. First, I want to start off by saying congratulations on your show, Simone, which is on Saturdays and Sundays on MSNBC.
5:15Yes, 4 p.m. Eastern. Check us out. 4 p.m. Eastern. And our friend DeRay always says that activism of any kind requires many on-ramps and entry points. And it's really cool because my mom is one of those people who hates the news. And by the way, for every household, there's a person who can watch the news all day long. Like mine, Simon, can just have it going and going and going. But in my mom's house, her husband has it going and going and going. So she's anti any type of news, except she loves you so much. So I, I actually, I love your mom shout you out because my mom would be completely uninformed if it weren't for you.
5:59Well, thank you. You know, I mean, that is, that is the best compliment because when we set out to do the show, one of the things I wanted to make sure that we did was make, make it accessible. You know, there's so much happening. Everything's very complicated. And you should be able to turn on our show Saturday or Sunday and understand exactly what actually happened last week. What is going on in the world as it relates to politics, but also health care or, you know, pop culture. And you should be able to turn on the show on Sunday and even get a little sneak peek about what's going to happen next week.
6:37So shout out to your mom. What for being the demo. Thank you. Yes. Can you talk to me about, you know, so for many of you who, if you, if you may know Simone's work now on television, you may not have known kind of the path of how she got there. And she was the youngest presidential press secretary in history, right? That's what they say. Yes. And so I want to talk a little bit about your path of how you, I guess, made your way into politics and why being on TV to kind of make the news and kind of the understanding and the importance of getting involved in politics more accessible to people in America.
7:24So for a long time, I cut my teeth in campaigns. That's what I used to do. I'm from, as you know, North Omaha, Nebraska. Go Big Red. Go Huskers. We'll get it together sometime. But I didn't come from a political family, Cleo. So, you know, like we we I was not my mom took us to vote and my parents, they went to vote, but they were not going to conventions and deeply involved in local politics themselves. But they were very involved. My mom especially was very involved in the community. So one of the internships I got when I was in college, I went to college in Nebraska, I went to Creighton, was at the mayor's office.
8:04and the day that I was a communications intern and the day that I went to work for the mayor, there was a recall campaign that was started against the mayor. It was crazy. So I go into office and they're like, oh, man, there's a recall campaign. So I went to go volunteer on the mayor's effort to beat the recall in addition to my internship. And that's where I met these two guys and Chris and Robert had a consulting firm. They're from Tennessee. It was a black owned consulting, political consulting firm and they were brought in to help organize North and South Omaha, which are the predominantly African-American and Latino parts of the city.
8:38And so I did anything they needed me to do. If they needed a venue, I helped them get a venue. And they let me continue to work with them after this, you know, recall campaign effort was over. So I got a lot of my initial political experience while I was in school working judges races. I did mayoral races. I didn't even know that judges were elected until I started working with this firm, because in Nebraska, judges are appointed. I did stuff on reservations. I did stuff on state legislative races. I went with them when they did candidate analysis. But how do you think, what do you think like created the gravitational pull towards this work?
9:16Because so many of us like either mimic or like move away from things that are inside of our house. So do you feel that you were kind of like continuing the like work ethics your parents had but towards something that piqued your interest? or do you feel that like maybe the lack of the kind of, you know, like political sphere was like, just made you, was, were you rebelling and it just made it more interesting or I don't know. Was my, you know, for a long time, I thought my dad was a Republican. Come to find out he was an independent voter. He did watch Fox News and he read a lot of Breitbart.
9:52So we had the range in the house. I don't think I was rebelling. I really think my interest in politics, particularly communication, is, you know, campaigns are only just a bunch of people. They have sat around a table and decided that this is how we want to communicate the message of our candidate, right? So for Bernie Sanders, the underpinning of his message was, we lived in a rigged economy kept in place by a system of corrupt campaign finance. That's what Bernie Sanders believed. And so what are all the different ways that we can communicate that via fundraising, on television, what kind of literature do we put together to go and knock doors with?
10:31But the people in the room come up with the message, the underpinning of the message, and then they organize around that message. Well, oftentimes the people that put the message together, well, one, I would look at things and I would say, why is it like this? Or why wouldn't they do that? This doesn't make any sense. And then when I figured out that the people that put the message together, they often didn't look like me, They were not young people. At the time, they were not women. And they definitely weren't bald black girls from North Omaha, Nebraska. But that's what drew me towards it. Just the ability to the people that make the message are the people actually with the most power.
11:07And I always want to be a powerful person. Chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more, can make me feel like a spectator in my own life. Botox, onabotulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It's the number one prescribed branded chronic migraine preventive treatment. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Allerge your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition.
11:40Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor, visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com, or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more.
12:11I think you were born a powerful person. And I'd say you're a talker. you were like where is my megaphone because I have something to say what was it like growing up in Nebraska though because you know it's really interesting because you being in New York City makes a lot of sense you being in DC makes a lot of sense you being in LA makes a lot of sense you have this really really incredibly big and fun personality and it's not just because you have this kind of fabulous fashion and you're so like gorgeous every time you walk in the room but even when you are like, cause I have been to a restaurant with you and you're like basically in pajamas, but with some like shawl over you, it's very gray gardens, but everyone in the room seems to kind of notice or feel your energy or your, you know, presence in the room.
13:01And so what was it like being in Nebraska? Cause I know that's something you didn't, you know, learn at 25. Like that is something I think must've always, and your mom has it too, by the way. So I think my mother has a bunch of my mother is a serial entrepreneur for folks out there. Terry Sanders, Madre, as we like to call her, Madre, Madre, Madre is the person that told me you always have to be willing to throw a party for yourself if no one else is going to throw a party for you. And I really think when she told me that I took it to heart. I took it to heart. So I think that's really where it is.
13:36I mean, I talk a lot about and I have learned throughout my entire career and it's really helped me in what I do now with the show and working at MSNBC. Like, I'm very comfortable with who I am. And I think growing up, who I just being myself was reinforced every single day. I went to an all girls Catholic high school, Mercy, in Omaha. And, you know, at Mercy, I was on student council. I was the cheerleading captain. Like I, I was very engaged and involved. Like I did the school trips. We did the abroad things. I was just constantly reinforced that, first of all, you have to participate. If there are things that are happening, participation is very important.
14:18Your participation will change things. and two, like, we want to hear what you have to say. And it took me a while from, I didn't really realize until a couple of years ago that that foundation of all constantly being reinforced, that my voice mattered, that I had something to say, that my perspective was important is what gives me the confidence to lean into myself for lack of a better term now. So, yeah. You know, I think that's such a powerful message to people who often feel they are too much so that there's no place for them. And in that you can say, if you feel like you're too much, you are perhaps not in the right place because you need to be creating the place for yourself.
15:04That part. You know, you're trying to put yourself in shoes that don't fit in a world that is not suited to you. So you have to kind of break it apart and like create your own path. Yeah. And you have to have people that are also that believe in you, that support you, like that are allies on your journey. Because to be honest, when I, you know, Cleo, I didn't have agents for a long time when I was a political commentator in between doing campaigns. And when I I remember I talked to a bunch of agents and one person told me that I was not palatable enough for cable television, you know, that I did not sound like what people were used to hearing when they turned on the TV.
15:43So I needed voice lessons. Well, I'm very happy I did not listen to that agent because I am just fine. But folks were not used to seeing or hearing people that look like me delivering them the news. Right. Giving them the facts, helping them unpack and understand things. And I'm just very grateful for folks like Rashida Jones, who's the president of MSNBC, because, you know, she thought my voice was important. And Rashida is why I have a show. And it's also such a testament to your mother being a serial entrepreneur by saying like, you know, if you don't see yourself in the market, create a market for yourself.
16:20Literally. And that's really important. And I feel like you and I have always bonded on that a lot over the years because there was no one doing what you were doing in your way when you came on the scene. And there was certainly no one really buying poetry in a meaningful way or being able to turn, you know, poetry books into political activism or movements or things in that kind of modern, in our modern times. And so I always feel really lucky that we met, when we met, because, you know, I think we were both two people who were young and making and creating a space and a market for ourselves.
16:59And it also goes to show that the more you do that, and the more focused you are on that path, even if how you get the opportunities may look different or they may, the path may take three times as long so that you can maintain your own integrity. It makes a difference. You know, cause like perhaps you could have gotten whatever that goal during that year when you met with that agent, perhaps you could have gotten there like in that year, had you changed your voice or changed your body or changed your hair, changed your, whatever else they were saying, all these things that are fundamental to who you are.
17:31Maybe you could have reached that goal, but you wouldn't have known who you were when you got there. And then how are you then supposed to scale that goal into your greater dream? Because like the single goal of a year is not your whole dream. Just like one achievement is not your whole life. See, this is why you write the poetry, Cleo, because you connect the dots for the people. Yes. I mean, and the point that you made about everyone, like both of us, we each helped kind of create our own lane. I also think it's a testament to this generation of young people. You know, we are millennials. I think that we grew up being told that we could do whatever we want to do for, you know, for lack of a better term.
18:12That also meant that we also grew up looking for things instantly. But we grew up being told that if you dream it, if you think big, you can do it. And I am just fortunate to have had that instilled in me and been a part of that generation that truly does believe that literally, if you dream it up and you work hard at it, you absolutely can do it. You have to be able to execute when you get with the thing that you want, but it is absolutely possible. How do you find that you're able to kind of go up against that kind of like old guard powers that be that are still woven? You know, because the thing about like news and politics is that there are these really ancient at this point in our young, ancient history of this country and this, and our political world, they are these, they're really staunch institutions though.
19:02And so what is it like where it's like for every person you have that, that is this incredible advocate, like Rashida, you know, what is it like when you're weaving in, in, whether it's in your speaking or in politics or in the news culture, where you're bumping up against this like old guard who's kind of, I think, creates their own importance by invalidating others, you know, and that's how they hold their place is that like, as long as everyone else is insecure, then they have security in their position. And so that is part of like how they maintain power. So are there like things you say to yourself?
19:40Are there ways you kind of like prep your mind or like, you know, what's the mindset you have knowing that there is no version of your day where you don't have to bump into that? You know, when, when I was growing up, I used to pretend to be a news caster. I don't know why. Um, I was Donna Burns. Okay. I don't know about the necklace. Yes. Oh yeah. I have a, I'm not wearing it today, but I have a necklace that literally says Donna Burns on it. And people are like, who is that? And I'm like, Oh, Donna Burns is my, was my media personality at the age of eight. I don't know what outlet Donna Burns worked for, I don't know if she was an anchor or a correspondent or if she was a weather girl, but I used to pretend to be Donna Burns.
20:20This is Donna Burns reporting live and I would talk in my TV news voice. Hold on. I have to just have one pause in here because one day I'm in DC. Simone is giving me a ride in her car somewhere and the name of her phone is Donna Burns. Now you've told everyone, Cleo, I got to change the name. Now they don't know it's me when they're I'm in the car and it's like playing did it a song from Donna Burns. And I was like, who bonus is this? Whose car is this? Like, I was so confused. And I was like, Oh my God. But yes, now everyone in the group community knows that if Donna Burns shows up on your airdrop in the airport, you can send Simona a message.
21:06It is me. I have to change it. We Donna Burns 2.0. Well, when I got when I came on at MSNBC and we were developing the show, I had told, I think, the story about Donna Burns a couple of times. And folks were like, I love that. But we want some out. And I have to constantly remind myself that. And, you know, some days Donna Burns does need to pop up. You know, we have a lot of we are in the midst of a very heavy news cycle. Right. There is a war happening in the Middle East. There is uncertainty and turmoil across the globe here at home. Another war happening in Ukraine. And I have had a number of breaking news instances in a weekend where I have to throw out what we thought we were going to do because we have to cover the breaking news.
21:50And when we cover the breaking news, I am there to give you the facts on what is happening. Because I know when things are happening, people go to their televisions and they turn it on. And I, I want them to keep the channel on MSNBC, especially when I'm on, because they will know that I too, I'm going to give them the facts. And so Donna Burns shows up in some moments. She's had to show up a lot of times over the last couple of weeks and months, but I remind myself that I need to be Simone. Yes. And it's almost like Donna Burns is the acorn, but Simone Sanders is the oak tree. Yes. You know, I've been wondering a lot about you over the past, you know, week or two covering this news that has been so difficult for so many of us to process and have conversations about or dialogue on.
22:37And I, and I don't, you know, I'm, I don't necessarily want to get into the particulars of it, but I'm wondering how are you giving yourself kind of care during this time to be, you know, it's interesting. I was just talking to someone who runs an organization that gets basic needs to children. And she was saying, she's like, oh, you know, I just can't, I haven't been able to look because I just feel like sick and I'm tired and I'm so stressed and the violence is giving me such anxiety and I can't sleep. And it's like, well, at some point your ability to give yourself the care to not look or have the right boundaries that you need for your life in this moment is critical because who's going to help these kids that you help all over the world tomorrow?
23:19And I think about you a lot in that because, you know, you don't like when, you know, when people are saying like, you've got to see this, you've got to do this, or you've got to, you know, and whether it's my friends like you or our close friends who work in the administration, who are sick at work from the violence that they are, you know, having to watch and know for their job. I wonder how you're able to care for yourself and find the right balance so that you can still get up in the morning and do this. Or is there something that you kind of train in your body to say like, wow, I just like I grow.
23:56I'm like stronger. Or are you having a cry in the middle of the day behind your desk? Like, how do you do that? You know, Cleo, it is it's so crazy on the weekend after they found the the alleged shooter in Maine. we did a story on the show that Saturday where we didn't talk about the shooter. I wanted to talk about the victims. There were 18 people that were killed in Lewiston, Maine, and they were at a bar or they were at a bowling alley. One of the gentlemen who was killed, I had his brother on. And so in the lead up to having his brother on in the intro, I said the names of some of the people who had died and talked about what they were doing in their lives and who they were.
24:41and I had read the script like five times before that and it was fine like I edited it and everything I started reading it on television and I just started crying I truly I was I was crying and I'm like I need to keep reading because I got to get to Ralph and I get to Ralph who is the gentleman's name and I said Ralph I'm so sorry that I got emotional but it's just so sad people were just living their lives and we've been talking a lot about the shooter but I want to talk about these people who deserve to live. So tell me about your brother. And we had this beautiful conversation about his brother and his brother's niece who just celebrated her second birthday and the memory of his brother and what he wants and feels for the community.
25:26And while I'm not happy that I cried on national television, I am happy that I allowed myself to, to, to feel that. And those kinds of things are therapeutic for me, but I also, I do step back and step away. You know, I don't, I don't think it's healthy for people to 24 hours a day, seven days a week to constantly be in the middle of it. So for people that say, oh, I need a break. Like I completely understand. And we here at, you know, MSNBC and NBC, we are, there is an environment that acknowledges that this is very hard, but we're also doing very important work. So while we have to cover the story.
26:05We also have to take care of ourselves. Yeah. You know, one of my great kind of hopes is that in ways we've kind of returned more to like the traditional way. And though the, obviously the news cycle has become a 24 hour news cycle over the past, you know, 25 years or so, but, you know, I was just having this conversation about how I was like, you know what, like I recently got like my hard copies of the New Yorker and the Atlantic back coming to the house instead of just the digital versions. And I was like, you know, I actually just want to like watch the news and kind of just see it there. And I don't want to live in the scroll of the news.
Read the full transcript
26:41Like, I just don't know that my, that our collective brains are ready for a constant, constant flow, especially because even on Instagram, things are no longer on a timeline. So you're getting this constant scroll and then it'll be like from four days ago. and it's still just like atrocious or horrible or like you know and it's it's just not I I just don't think it's something we can handle or I I know I can't and so I think it's really interesting because what what I hope or what I think is that there might be this kind of return to watching the news because I think at some point we were all kind of burnt out from like once the news became like the scroll of Instagram or or the scroll of Instagram mimicked the news by being 24 hours a day.
27:24We were like, I can't even turn it on. And now I think we might be more intentional in saying like, okay, I'm going to go watch Simone's show on Saturday and Sunday, or I'm going to go watch. This is the one person I'm going to watch, you know, Abby when her show comes on on CNN and just have people who I feel like hearing from. And then I can turn it off when the program is over. Cause it's telling me it's over. Whereas on Instagram, it's never over this scroll and there's no there remember even there used to be some point of Instagram where it would be like you are up to date or something you're never like if there's no up to date and I think that's really difficult you know at this point you make about folks I hear that often and I'm so grateful to when I'm out and about and folks are like oh I watch your show and I'm like thank you for watching or when I we just recently saw our friend Viara her mom she's like I came out because I wanted to say hi.
28:19I only see you on the TV. And it's just, it's super special when people that know me watch because I'm like, y 'all know me and you do not have to watch. But also the people that do not know me because, and who say, I feel really informed after watching the show or I did not know that. And I fully understand that we live in a day and age where people are picking and choosing how they want to consume the news. You know, we try to also make sure we have a robust digital strategy, not just on the endless scroll of Instagram or even the TikTok, but YouTube. There are a lot of people who can't even bear to turn, who don't even have cable to turn on the TV, but they want to watch YouTube.
28:56And so I try to curate things so that the folks can still get the news, get the information from me in all the spaces and places. I've been in and out a lot lately for work, press and photo shoots, It's the usual whirlwind. And I was just thinking about how much I love settling into a real home when I'm on the road. There's something special about staying in a space that feels lived in and welcoming. It makes the experience feel more connected to the place. When I book a stay on Airbnb, I can make simple home-cooked meals, have a few friends over, and ease into a rhythm that feels more grounded than being in a hotel.
29:41and it's such a simple practical idea for anyone heading out of town you can host your home on Airbnb while you're away your place would be sitting empty anyway and hosting can bring in a little extra money to put toward future travel if you're traveling this season consider hosting your home on Airbnb and let your space work for you your home might be worth more than you think find out how much at airbnb.com slash host
30:12What do you kind of hope for? Like, you know, because I know because you have this kind of entrepreneurial mindset, like what do you see in this kind of traditional format of news and hope that we can evolve, change, or you can bring to? Because I mean, I feel like I watched you so closely do that with Bernie's campaign and with the president's campaign and with the vice president's office. You know, something you always push for is like what can be pushed for. And so I wonder, I've never asked you that about what you feel about the news. I feel, well, first of all, I feel, you know, a lot of people say, oh, folks aren't watching the news anymore.
30:50And the reality is when something is happening in the world, when something is happening in your community, something big is going on, you turn, you go to the television and you turn it on because you believe the news is going to tell you what is happening. And I don't think that is changing anytime soon. And so because of that, I think that having a we call it linear. That's what it is when you're on television, on cable, having a linear presence that is also responsive to people and to trends, like expanding what what we say is the news is very important. And so we try to do that on our show where, you know, Cleo launching a book and going on this book tour is news.
31:33So is Malcolm X becoming an opera, being turned into an award winning opera that has launched in Detroit and has gone all over the country and how it's premiering at the Met. But also what is what the president, the trip that the president took to Israel is news. The fact that the vice president and the second gentleman are going to London to talk AI is news. So I think the news has to be responsive to the people that we see on television. But also you have to understand that, as we just discussed, people are picking and choosing how they want to consume that kind of content. And so I think the future, and it's what we're doing here now, frankly, is making sure that you are having a presence that is organic to all of those spaces and places.
32:19And so what we do on TikTok, I do a thing on TikTok every week for our shows, TikTok, that no one sees anywhere else unless they're on TikTok or our Instagram. We reshare it. But it's just I tell I tell folks about something that happened in the news that didn't make it to television. Right. But that is newsy. But lots of other things are going on. So it's something that people are getting. And for folks who are consuming our information on TikTok, they are seeing that. And so making sure that you are as authentic and as organic to the platform as possible, I think that's going to be an important part of the future of this business.
32:55But people still want to turn on the TV. Yeah, they do. And, you know, I know that also in a world where like you can't trust how quickly things are being reported on Instagram and the self-reporting and all this stuff, which or Twitter, which has its, you know, benefits and its kind of downfalls in the sense of like, you know, if it weren't for Twitter, we would have, you know, never really known what was happening in Ferguson. And there's so much that we wouldn't know about so many oppressed communities where there's not access to traditional forms of media. While on the other hand, in that there have been these like built personalities that report certain things that are like completely untrue or completely, you know, it's kind of turned into such a wild, wild West.
33:45And there's so much happening there that to me, I have found that turning the news on, whereas it's weird because 10 years ago, I would have been like turning the news on makes me feel crazy. And now I'm like turning the news on makes me feel like I can get what I need to get with the beginning and an end. And not like standards, right? Because there are rules you have to abide by because we take this and frankly, every organization should feel this way that reports the news, but we know that they don't, but I'm grateful to be at a place that does. So when breaking news happens, there's oftentimes where you'll have guests on, things are breaking and there's somebody in my ear saying, well, this is what we know.
34:26Look at your email. I have, this is what we can report. And then the guests will say something that we don't know, that is not sure. They start speculating. Well, we can't speculate in a breaking news situation. Donna Burns got to come in and say, well, NBC News has not reported that NBC News has not that is speculating. Like we have to make sure we correct that because again, people are turning on television and especially in those moments looking for the, the, the information, they want to know what happened. They want to get the facts and then they want to go. Well, and it's like, you know, I think that this like kind of never ending clickbait thing is also really like just jar.
35:08It's just, I think it's just gotten overwhelming and hard, this online kind of like just click it, just anything to just keep you going. You've got to see this. You got like, you know, we're upping the ante constantly on violent visuals on like the deepest, darkest personal, you know, stories of people's lives or celebrities, this or that. And all of it is for the most part, like speculation. And that's really hard. And so, you know, you're like when everyone's online saying like this and this, and did you see this? Or like someone will like truly send you something and be like, you need to learn more about this.
35:44Have you read this article? And it's an op-ed. And you're like, you cannot send me an op-ed. Like this is an opinion piece as a way to inform me on something. You could send me an op-ed and say, I love this point of view on this, would love to share it with you. But like, that is not an educational resource. Like that is like, you cannot send something that is on an actual news article to inform someone on something. You know, that's why what I get to do right now, I get to decide the conversation is going to be had. And then I get to facilitate the conversation, abiding by all these rules and standards and whatnot.
36:22And I think especially nowadays, it is just so important. The misinformation and the disinformation is real. And people are taking what they see online and spaced in places and repeating it as though it is facts. And so I feel like I feel an immense level of responsibility that when I am not even just when I'm sitting in the anchor chair, you know, when I'm when I'm out and about, when I'm on panels or whatnot, when I'm on my, you know, TikTok or my Instagram, if I'm speaking about anything that is happening, I want to make sure that I am being actual and factual because I know that there are people out there listening who will take what I say and repeat it as fact.
37:02And I want to make sure that I'm giving them the facts. And unfortunately, across the board in the media apparatus, everyone does not, you know, have that level of standard. But I'm glad that more often than not, folks do, and especially in what I do right now. What do you think people can do or approach others when they are trying to foster kind of a healthy connection on disagreeing opinions or points of view? I mean, you're someone who will sit in between a Republican and a Democrat or someone who's, you know, like on a complete and utter opposite sides of the spectrum on any given topic. How do you kind of, I think, not just facilitate that or foster an ability for everyone to be respectful and show up in the space, like in a way that they come correct?
37:54How do you do that in your personal life and in your professional life? I feel like it's it's the same it's similar in media and frankly it's similar in politics and it's similar in my personal life I think that in general we have to instead of getting to a place where someone is right or where they we need to get to a place of understanding because if I deeply believe x and you cleo deeply believe y I am not going to change your y belief if it is a deeply held actual belief to us. And so instead of the goal of the conversation being to change your mind, I approach all of the conversations, whether, and this is what I used to encourage candidates and campaigns to do when that's the work that I did, to get to a place of understanding.
38:48There are very immediate members of my family voted for Donald Trump in 2016. And in 2016, I worked for Senator Sanders on his presidential campaign. And after that, I went on to, I was a commentator on another network. And I couldn't believe when the members of my family were telling me that they voted for Donald Trump. And so we had conversation about it. But then you turn on the television in some places and spaces and everyone that supports Donald Trump is racist. Everyone that thinks, and I just think the generalities are unhelpful to everyone. So I would just say for me, I try to get to a place of understanding and I try not to speak with broad brush strokes.
39:27And so like if you come on my show, you can't say all the Republicans are X, Y, and Z. No, it is some of my Republican friends because it is some of my Republican friends. This holiday season, choose gifts that feel thoughtful and practical with Omaha Steaks. Whether you're hosting or gifting, they deliver the world's best steak experience and it makes you look like you planned way ahead. They've got USDA certified tender steaks, juicy burgers, comfort meals, and tons more. Gifting Omaha Steaks is honestly one of the easiest wins. Everything arrives beautifully packaged, super convenient, and the quality is unbelievable.
40:03Their filet mignons are some of the most tender I've ever had, and the variety means you can personalize every gift. Plus, orders placed by 6 p.m. Eastern ship same day, and everything is backed by their 100 % guarantee. It's holiday gifting made simple. Save big on gourmet gifts and more holiday favorites with Omaha Steaks. Visit OmahaSteaks.com for 50 % off site-wide during their Sizzle All The Way sale. And for an extra$35 off, use promo code T-Bone at checkout. Terms apply. See site for details. That's OmahaSteaks.com, code T-Bone. You know, it's really interesting. I just was having this conversation on the phone with someone before we jumped on about, you know, this idea that when something is this really divisive issue we say like such and such is happening on both sides on both sides on both sides and I was like we need to replace both sides with all sides because there's five different sides like within like and that is actually speaking with nuance on nuanced things but so it's like you know that they're like well there's something you can say that like you know it'll upset one side or the other and you're like well if you're always looking at as one side or the other in anything whether that's Republican and Democrat, Israel and Palestine, like the, you know, like pro police versus like, you know, whatever, like pro choice versus whatever, all of these things, like every time it's an absolute binaries in this way, like everyone's losing because life just does not look that way.
41:34No. And people don't consume information that way. So that's why it's important to just stick to the fact. When you think about this next generation, how do you think they can show up or like, what do you think would help them to feel encouraged? I mean, I feel that like, if there's one thing people get burnt out on really easily, it's politics. And it also seems like, what are those like games you play where it's like, oh, like if you cut off one head, like 30 heads spring up. So it's like, every time you feel that you make any type of momentum, it feels that like the mountain you're climbing up while you still have the momentum has somehow gotten taller.
42:09So what do you say to encourage not just young people, but anyone to kind of get engaged or stay engaged or as we're coming in, like, I mean, to the idea that next year is an election year is so daunting, right? It's like 2023 came in and didn't even put her purse down. It's like, wow, how long have you been here? You know, Cleo, I think that first of all, I don't think there's a better time in America to be a, or even in the world, frankly, to be a young person with an idea or a young person that wants to change things, whatever your thing is, because of how interconnected we are and frankly, how technology and social media has helped break down some of the barriers that used to exist so that different voices can now spring through.
42:59But it's also like, you know, these young people nowadays, they go to school doing active shooter drills. We never had to do that. Like, I can't imagine, I cannot imagine the, just the weight that especially like a young person who's in high school right now, right, feels on a, on a regular basis, let alone a middle schooler. And so I would just say that these are, these are difficult times, but I think the world has been through difficult times before and there will be difficult times again. And I think what's important is to have hope and to understand that nothing in America, at least, has ever changed without the participation of young people.
43:39Every single major movement in this country, young people have been at the forefront. It's been an intergenerational coalition. And I saw that viscerally in my work in politics. And I see it now. And all of these stories that we're talking about, whether we're talking about the, you know, the gains from the labor movement and the things that have been happening across this country as it relates to working people standing up and claiming their power, women across the country as it relates to reproductive health and the current debate what's happening on abortion. All of the young people are at the forefront of all of this and hope is essential.
44:18You have to have hope. You have to have a hope that there is something on the other side and that there are some good things happening amidst all of this darkness. And that is why I do think that the news is heavy, everything is so heavy, but we also have to make sure that we are showing the hopeful things, right? There has to be something positive that happened this week. And I always say that we're on these calls for the show and I'm like, isn't there, isn't there something, anything positive that happened this week? And they go find something positive. And I'm like, let's put it in the F block, put it at the end of the show, put it here because we have to give people hope.
44:52Yeah. That's like Mr. Rogers would always say, find the helpers. Yes. Oh, Mr. Raj. How do you, you know, I think that, um, the optimism and hope you have isn't really possible without self-care because when we're exhausted or burnt out or overtired, we feel really defeated and it's really hard to have the energy, you know, it's like, you know, I just came off of doing the book tour and like for the week I was home, I was just like depressed because I was just, it was so much energy that I just had it. I was like, until I could regain and like not stop being so exhausted from, you know, the travel and coming home to my kids who were nuts.
45:34It was, you know, it was just so difficult to have that like kind of hope or optimistic where I was just like, wow, this is too much. This is hard. I like don't want to get out of pajamas. And then as the days went on and I rested and I started to kind of find ways to build in my own care along the way, I was able to be like, oh yeah, I forgot that like, this idea of being able to be hopeful or being able to be optimistic is directly linked to like feeling restored, having energy and giving ourselves care because when those things are down, all the things are down. Yeah. So what do you do? Like, you know, you have such a demanding job.
46:14I go to the nail shop. Simone has the best nails in the game. Everyone should know that about her yeah they're a highly expressive artistic experience of hers truly it's my version of a ponytail yeah that and these head wraps but I mean truly I go to the nail shop I hang out with my friends I have friends that have nothing to do with media or politics or just you know regular people as I like to say yeah I I detach and I just think it's important in everything we do. We have to read what do we, my mom always talks about refilling your cup and like, you can't pour from an empty cup. So one of the ways I refill my cup is I go to the nail shop, right?
46:59Like I, I make sure I spend time with my husband where we don't talk about anything that is work related for either one of us, but the crazy, the crazy thing that we saw on TikTok instead. Yeah. Yeah. So I just think those moments, finding the little moments of joy and quiet. And are there any other boundaries like that where you're like, okay, one way I have self-care is by like boundaries about like when I stopped talking about work at the end of the day? Are there any other boundaries you put in where, you know, for example, when I'm really tired, I have a boundary of like, which of my friends I can even talk to?
47:34Like, cause some will just come to you and they have like such high key energy that you're like, I don't actually like when I'm at my most tired, I actually just can't be in this dialogue because you don't deserve it. Like you don't deserve my exhaustive lens on this energy because it's, it's actually not you. It is me for real. And when I'm at my normal energy and capacity, this is not like rubbing me the wrong way, but if I'm really tired, it is. and that's on me. And so like, so I have boundaries where I'm like, oh no, I'm going to call them next week. Do you have any things that are like, whether it's like, oh no, your boundary is like, I have to be in the, be home by this amount of time or this amount of days a week, or I have to make sure I like sit in a restaurant these days a week to just be in the world decompressing in a social atmosphere.
48:28Like what are, do you have anything like that? I think, I think Sean would love for me to want to have to be home at a certain time when I go to the nail shop I don't do work at the nail shop like I will not take it I have been like that since I really got like that when I worked at the White House and I had nails when I worked at the White House and I had a very demanding job when I worked at the White House I was the senior advisor and chief spokesperson for the vice president and so there were all kinds of calls and emails and things that people needed and reporters. Now colleagues that I work with, they used to call and need things.
49:04And my, one of my boundaries was I do not do work at the nail shop. And sometimes I'm at the nail shop for two and a half, three hours because I was getting all the things and I've carried that on now. And so, because that is my decompression time. So I'm not doing work at the nail shop. Cause the thing you realize about, I think working in politics, especially I've observed this with like some of our best girlfriends who work in politics is like, you can't control the pace, but you have some control in off hours of the flow of the pace, like how, how it flows in and out of like what you're doing.
49:39And if, but if you decide that you don't control the pace or the flow, like when and how that like amount of work and how quickly it moves, hits you or moves with you, then you really lose yourself. Like I had to have like a come to Jesus with one of our friends and be like, you cannot dress like this anymore. Like, what are you like, this is not self-care. Like these things are falling apart. Like you need to just put on some like clothes and brush your teeth. And like, you are in the world, put deodorant on, like, you know, you really become completely caught up in the demands of the role. And so I feel like, you know, I just wanted to ask you about, have that boundary with you, because I feel that there were moments where you got caught up too, because it really is a grant, something that grinds you down.
50:29Yeah. And they noticed different boundaries at home. Like when we, when Sean and I sit down and have dinner together, we put the phones down. And even if that's just 45 minutes of no phones, I know everybody has an email. If it's really important, they will they will call three times and then the phone will ring. But otherwise, we put the phones down because we just need time to speak to each of us. And so I do that now. Like, obviously, the news is crazy. Sometimes I'm on standby right now because, you know, if something happens in the middle of the night, our time, everyone, lots of anchors are taking different shifts to be on standby.
51:05So sometimes I've had the privilege of being on standby for 1 a.m., right? So, yes, if I'm on standby for the 1 a.m., I need to be alert and around in the evening. But if this is my 45 minutes or if this is my 30 minutes, I need to be intentional about protecting that time, you know, not scheduling myself crazy. There needs to be a day where I'm not putting on any makeup and I have nobody's TV show to know. No one's programmed to appear on. Yeah. Well, Simone, I want to thank you so much for coming on. You are such a light in my life and you're such a light for so many. I know I joke about my mom being obsessed with you, but I just am so proud because she's actually obsessed with somebody who is so substantive and smart and beautiful and is such an inspiration for her too.
51:57It just makes me proud of her. and it makes me feel that like she's actually feeding herself like brain food instead of like brain worms and so I shout out to Lolo I love you Lolo but I do want you to watch less reality tv and so I I just want to thank you for all that you do and for really giving such a voice and visibility to to so many young black women everywhere around the world and for also just changing the game. You know, the news has for a long time needed to look and feel and be different to engage the next generation and engage more people so that we can be more informed and therefore be more active and know more so we can do better.
52:42And so I'm really, I'm so grateful that you're leading in this space. I love your show so much and I love you. And I hope that everyone will watch the Simone show, Simone, what 4 PM Eastern on Saturdays and Sundays, Saturdays and Sundays on MSNBC. And for the streamers, I have new episodes every Monday on Peacock. Okay. Amazing. Simone, thank you. I love you. I love you.
53:11Thank you for tuning in to today's conversation with Simone Sanders. I hope you will tune in to her show Simone which airs at 4pm Eastern on Saturdays and Sundays on MSNBC Thanks for tuning in This has been a presentation of Cadence 13 Studios I hope you'll listen, follow, rate, and review all of our episodes which are available for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts Thanks for listening to the Goop Podcast you
From the publisher
"Folks were not used to seeing or hearing people that look like me delivering them the news, giving them the facts, helping them unpack and understand things," says Symone Sanders. Sanders is an author, seasoned democratic strategist, and the host of “Symone” on MSNBC. She joins Cleo Wade to talk about her path to becoming the youngest presidential press secretary on record at 25 and why she felt compelled to get into politics and media at a young age. She shares how she manages the demands of a high-pressure career while taking care of herself during difficult news cycles and her advice for young people looking to make a positive impact in their communities and in the world.
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices