The Small Steps That Lead to a Big Dream

0:00Chronic migraine. 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more, can make me feel like a spectator in my own life. Botox, onabotulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It's the number one prescribed branded chronic migraine preventive treatment. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition.

0:30Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor, visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com, or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more.

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2:29people stop believing that somebody's got your back or Superman's coming, we turn to ourselves and that's where you become empowered. Courageous participation attracts positive things. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow and this is the Goop Podcast, where we bring together visionaries, scientists, healers, artists, and seekers. I'm so grateful that I get to interview these extraordinary thought leaders and share their wisdom with you. And I love listening to the conversations that are led by my co-host and dear friend, Cleo Wade. Cleo is a beautiful poet and author. I deeply admire her and the way she keeps her heart open to the world.

3:11Together, we believe that engaging in open-minded, honest, and sometimes difficult conversations has the power to change our lives. All right, over to Cleo. Justina Blakeney is a designer, artist, a New York Times bestselling author, and the founder and creative director of Jungalo, her award-winning home decor brand. I am such a fan of Justina and her work, which focuses on bold patterns, vibrant colors, and of course, many, many plants. Today, our conversation begins with Justina's journey behind how she became interested in design and the roots that led her to create her unique style and carve a path on her own terms.

4:00We talked about evolution, creativity, being gentle with ourselves when we're trying to do a big thing, and learning to face what's uncomfortable. I loved getting to catch up with Justina today. And as always, she and this conversation brought such a smile to my face. Okay, let's get to Justina Blakeney.

4:25I'm really grateful that you made the time. And one of the things that really surprised me about doing this podcast was that I was really excited to talk to people who design spaces. I have a friend who says that they don't kind of follow the kind of stereotypical or most common way of wellness, which is like juice or yoga or whatever. She was like, I think about things that I want to look at that make me feel well. And so my friend says that her wellness is going to a museum. It's going to look at her kids' faces. She's like, I'm so stimulated and I have such a feeling of wellness from being around beauty.

5:06I'd never thought about that. And then as I was doing the pod, I was like, I'm really attracted to talking to people about the beauty of spaces and these spaces of deep expression. And I think how that makes us feel well. I guess I want to open with what is your story and how did you become interested in design and this really beautiful and I think very singular aesthetic that you've created. I mean, I told you, I wrote you an email like a year ago, I don't know if you remember where I literally was like, I just have to tell you I was on Jungalo and it is just such a wonderful, happy making space.

5:44It just made me smile. It made me smile to be in the world you've created. And I'd love to kind of go through the story of how it started as an idea and has been able to become this world. Thank you. Thank you so much. I love this like, entry point into my world, because I do think that maybe not as explicitly as as the way your friend kind of framed it. But I do think of beauty as just a really important part of joy. And what makes one's quality of life sort of good. I think about that a lot. And I think really, probably I realized that from a very, very young age, because we traveled a lot. And I think having had an opportunity to see a lot of different ways of living in different pockets of the world from a very young age, got me really tuned into, oh, but in Switzerland, they do it like this.

6:51And in Italy, they do it like this. But in Indonesia, it's like this and in Morocco, they do this. And I just sort of had a little bit of like a worldview about things that I felt made me feel good or made me light up or that sort of ignited my soul in some kind of special way. And I think that's where I initially really started to kind of pay more attention to how to make my world more beautiful. But then with Jungalo, It was such an unwritten story, like such an unplanned little chapter by chapter unfolding of how Jungalo came to be. And it really started with me coming back to living in Los Angeles after having lived for seven years in Italy and two years in New York.

7:43I did not know that about you. Yeah. I'm full of surprises. How do you, this is like all of a sudden I feel like I'm watching like a Netflix show. What? Which part of Italy? I lived in Florence. Basically, I did my junior year abroad there when I was studying, when I was at UCLA. I was studying world arts and cultures and I wanted to do my year abroad in Italy. So I did that and just fell in love. I fell in love with the way of life. I I fell in love with two hour lunch breaks and two year old wine, you know, it was just like all, like I was feeling it. And so after I graduated from UCLA, I didn't know what I wanted to do.

8:29And I just knew that I didn't want to do it here in the US. I wanted to do it somewhere else. So my sister Faith, who's also a seeker and a creative and a designer and an incredible human. We just decided to go together. And so we packed up and we moved to Italy. Wow. Yeah. I'm still in with two daughters that are close in age. I just, you all of a sudden have that feeling in your heart where you're like, oh, I hope that for my daughters that they like always have an adventure buddy in one another. Yeah, we definitely have that. And you know, we've had our moments of not being close and our moments of being extra close.

9:09And so you got to also roll with the ebb and flow of sisterhood, which is a beautiful thing. But yeah, we're super close. Not without complication. Yeah, of course. But that's also the beauty of this adventure that we're on here. So we lived in Italy. And the first year that we were there, both of us who've always been drawn to design, we were like, we're going to study fashion also, because in order to stay there legally, we had to be enrolled in school. So we enrolled in a fashion program. And it was really fun. And with our student visas, we got to work part time. So we were waitressing and doing oddball jobs and things like that and going to school.

9:50And one thing led to another and we kind of decided that we wanted to stay. And so my boyfriend at the time, Danilo, was studying to be a lawyer. So he helped us kind of navigate this very bureaucratic, complicated Italian system, non-system system. And what we ended up doing was creating an Italian business and hiring ourselves as the CEOs to be able to get work visas to stay. Oh my God. What a scam. I'm down. That was such a good scam. I still don't even know how we figured it out. I'm like, that went, but it was, it was not without like, we hustled to, to figure it all out. And we'd like spent you know eight hours on the floor at la questura like you know with all the immigrants trying you know getting our pay it was like a whole thing but but we did it and yeah ended up staying for almost eight years and what we did was that we opened up a little store we opened up a little boutique in the historical center of Florence and were you selling does clothing was design?

11:00It was a little bit of everything. It was just kind of like we grew up in Berkeley. And so we had been kind of like thrifting. Cute little hippie. Little hippie. And like we were like, we kind of want to open a vintage store. There were no vintage stores at all in Florence when we lived there at the time. Vintage just wasn't at the time really a part of Italian culture. You know, like used things weren't really thought of in that way. They also don't have as much of a throwaway culture as we do here. So there wasn't as quick of a cycle of getting rid of things as there is here. But what we slowly found was A, Florence has a really big foreign population, a lot of American students and students from all over the world.

11:45And so we're like, there's going to be a market for this. So we opened a little vintage boutique and we had vintage stuff and mid-century modern like Auger d 'Arc and little pieces of furniture. And that was all kind of in rotation and it was super cute and designy. And we also then started kind of upcycling a lot of the clothing and making new things. So we had our own like recycled fashion line there as well. And we had a little upstairs and I had a sewing machine. And when it was slow, I would just sew and make things and we'd go downstairs and try and sell them. And that was the life for one thing.

12:20What I think is so interesting and cool about you is that you, I feel that you could have chosen any vessel because you just have so much creative energy. I feel like even I know that our listeners can't see you right now, but you're in an art studio and I see paints and I see some of your beautiful paintings. And I love seeing you create art when you put it kind of the process of your art making and your Instagram stories and you're creating portraits with these unlikely objects and not just paint and these really different types of mixed media. And it's really cool to be friends with somebody like that, because you're reminded that this kind of creative energy is always buzzing through us looking for ways to come out.

13:02And I guess I wonder, like, how do you decide how to focus it when and what vessel you want to put it in? Because, you know, even the idea of you having this eclectic shop as a young person in Florence, it's so cool. And I really see that I see that energy of like, I'd go upstairs and sew, or I do this, or I'd grab this, or we'd, you know, and, and I think what so many creatives struggle with is like, how do I focus it into a business? Because I think, you know, the natural flow of creativity is actually that it wants to, I feel at times be really spontaneous and have a lot of space for play and not really have the confines up nine to five as much.

13:45What I guess it would be your advice to someone who is, you know, kind of feeling very creative and juicy and then is trying to decide, you know, the best manifestation for that in their lives right now. What surfaces for me is that I think the reason why I became an entrepreneur was because I like couldn't really figure out how to put myself in a single box or a single lane. And so I figured if I was my own boss, then when I wanted to try something new or pivot or expand sort of the way I was thinking about the business, that I would just be able to do that and try that. I think of being a business owner and being a professional artist as a container for all different manners of my creative expression.

14:36And I try to allow myself as much space and flexibility and freedom within that as possible. I also don't really hear people talking about business as a creative enterprise very much. I think that a lot of people have, and I definitely for a long time had sort of the stereotype of being a business owner or running a business as a very, like it's corporate, it's math, it's, it's, you know, I'm turning off this part of my brain to put on this part of my brain. Exactly. And I think what I've really discovered over the years is that being a business owner is an extraordinarily creative enterprise.

15:19And so if I can channel my creativity into being able to create a vessel that allows me to express my creativity in so many different ways and make money while doing it, then that's sort of what I'm going to try and do. So I really reject being pigeonholed, which is why I think I really feel comfortable now after years as being called an artist, because it just feels very expansive. and it feels like I can fit like the fact that I like to paint and sew and write and photograph and design and decorate and all of those things that feels like I can fit in that bucket without me having to explain too much or overthink it or feel like oh I can't do this because I'm in this other lane right now.

16:15I get so many headaches every month. It could be chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox, on a botulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those who have 14 or fewer headache days a month. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk.

16:46Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. I think also something that I love that you're describing is this abundant nature of when it comes to ideas and creativity.

17:26And I think a lot of the time we struggle because we apply scarcity to the idea, our time, the thing. And to me, as someone who also feels that way, I love to pick up my paints and paint, or I love to, you know, kind of sew little things for my daughters or try something new, or all of my girlfriends have lately gotten into like a pottery thing. I don't know if you've gone through that phase. But I, you know, I love this kind of living, breathing, creative way of life. And I think a lot of the times people are like, well, I can't do that because I think this is the better idea and I've got to do this.

18:13And it's like, there can be time for all of it. And I think that a lot of the times we either don't do the thing we love, or we put things on the back burner that don't have to be on the back burner just because we're prioritizing. And prioritizing doesn't mean you throw away this kind of creative life you have. You can just say like, oh, this calling, like I am listening to myself enough to hear that like the call to paint is feeling louder than the call to design something else. And I think that when you're doing that, it does help you prioritize what you want. If you do want to be entrepreneurial about your creativity or your artistry, how to prioritize it and still allow the others to live.

18:56but I do think that comes from having a relationship with yourself where you're listening. So you actually just don't feel overwhelmed by the abundance of ideas and thoughts and interests. And because I do think that that's where I find that people get a little arrested is in, oh, there's so many things I feel or think or da, da, da. And then they don't end up, they're not able to do any of them. Yeah. Do you know? I do. I completely understand that. And I really subscribe to the abundance sort of model that you're talking about. I also am a very focused person. And I think that that really helps.

19:29And I think that that's a really important piece of being able to channel your creativity. I very rarely start something that I don't finish, even if I don't love the finished product. So like if I start a painting, like nine out of 10 times, I'm going to finish it. It might not mean that I love it at the end, but I feel as though as a creative, in order for me to really grow as a creative, I don't want to have a million unfinished projects. I think the focus and the determination to start something and finish it out is really important. And then you can have that process where after you're done, you take a look and evaluate the finished product and say like, okay, here's what I love about it.

20:13Here's where I feel like I went wrong or I could do better. And I think that process, whether I'm designing a room or, you know, a product design for, you know, Junglo or for our target line or any of these other things that I'm doing, by being kind of focused and prolific, I'm really allowed to grow as an artist. And I think that learning that focus as an artist is different from needing to only focus on one medium or needing to only say like, I'm only going to do pottery or I'm only going to do product design. the craft of being an artist as you sort of exercise your creativity and put it on paper or put it through whatever medium you're doing you know you as a writer I'm sure you experience this as well where you're you just have to keep doing the work you know and and you have to I think also know where you can find kind of little things within yourself that motivate you to completion.

21:13So for me, for example, like one of my deepest values is that like, if I say I'm going to do something, I do it. Like I, that is something I really live by. I really believe in the value of words. And so I don't say things I don't mean. I don't say I'm going to do something with no intention of doing it. And that doesn't mean you can't change your mind or say, I hoped it would have been this way, but it was that way. But when it comes to my work, so one of the things I did, especially when I first started writing as my work was I never said I was working on a book. I always said I was finishing a book because I needed to have my own kind of thing, like reminder in my head of like, I'm going to kind of blend my value system around.

22:01If I say something like, I mean what I say. And that motivated me to completion because I do think that the difference between an artist and a working artist is a desire to complete, is a desire to say, like, cause you can be in process or in practice every day for the rest of your life, but you have to have that. Like, even when I, I, you know, I have my book, my new book coming out soon. And And I remember that when they said that they were like, you can look at it one more time for any changes. And I said, I actually can't. I already decided that like this is complete. And I was like, and I can't reopen it because I'm going to reopen an entirely new process into it if I reopen it.

22:47Like I have actually spiritually decided that this is complete and has to go into the world as it is. And like, it is not no longer in a place to change. And I think knowing that also as a creative is really helpful because you're like, this thing, this is enough for here. And if not, I'll be in the midst of working on it forever. ever. Yes, exactly. I really, really agree with you. I definitely have experienced that. I could feel that in my body as you were saying it, because I really think that with any creative endeavor, you can keep on working on it until you die, right? Which maybe is what you want.

23:30I don't know. There's also always room for, you know, edit, you know, like, of course, we always want to edit, you know, we, we, you know, always want to change, like, there's, I have never looked at one thing. And I don't know if you ever have that experience. But like, I have never looked at anything I've ever made and been like, I would just move that slightly to the left. Or maybe I would just rephrase it that way. And you're like, no, you just, a lot of these things are a living record of your ideas and who you were at certain times. And you have to allow that to be real and honest and accurate if you want to be a working artist.

24:10I also think I think of it as akin to somebody I love, right? Like someone I love is not necessarily, you know, the perfect person in every way, but in their imperfections and in their quirks and in, you know, even things that annoy you a little bit. That's sort of like where the love lives. Yep. So you're in your vintage store, you're going upstairs and you're sewing. Yeah. And then what's the turning point that brings you back to America and where does the seed for Jungalo start to kind of either arrive or maybe it's always been there, but it starts to get bigger or louder. Yeah. So I'd been in Italy for, you know, six plus almost seven years at this point.

25:00And we were having great fun with the vintage store, but we were never really making any kind of money. It was just sort of floating our life there. And at the time I was in a difficult relationship with a boyfriend that I felt like it was like a very toxic relationship. I felt like if I didn't leave, like that I was gonna be left in a bad place. And so I just sort of felt like I was ready to go. Also, at the time, my sister had just found out that she was pregnant with my niece Noah. And so it sort of was emerging that we were kind of going on our different journeys at this stage in our lives in our like mid 20s.

25:49And so I decided that it was time to go somewhere else. I wasn't sure where I was going to go at first. I thought maybe I would go to Spain. And eventually I decided to go to New York City. I'd always wanted to live in New York. And I had some homies who lived there. And I was like, let me just go, go to New York and we'll see what happens. So I ended up staying in Brooklyn for two years. Tough city. Tough winters. Tough winters. Very tough after seven years in Italy. You're like opposite of two hour lunches and$2 wines. It was very opposite of that. I was very, very broke and cold and hot and like all the things.

26:37And eventually, and in great part due to, oh my gosh, this is sounding like I'm following boys all over the world. but I was like the Jane Fonda doc because it becomes about you in the end so I was I was dating a guy at that time named Jason and I was really in love and he was here in LA and I so I was flying back and forth to I was like basically every paycheck of every little job and gig I got I was like flying out to LA so I was like enough I'm moving back to LA and you're not loving Brooklyn anyway I wasn't loving it it was it was it was tough I had it I had a tough couple years there. And so I moved back and I ended up getting a little one bedroom apartment in Las Feliz.

27:21And it was the first time I'd ever lived by myself. And I had been collecting and saving all these beautiful tchotchkes and art and, you know, objects and things from my time in New York and my time in Europe. And I just like decorated the hell out of this little apartment. And you know, there's botanical wallpaper everywhere and a million plants and just all my creative juices and I'm painting and I'm sewing and I'm doing all my stuff in this little bungalow apartment. And I had some friends who I had met the first year that I lived in Italy, but who were other American students who I studied with there and they were over and visiting from various locations and we're all on the sofa and we're drinking wine and hanging out and you know my friends look around and they're like this is so cute I love how LA has all these little like bungalow apartments and this one's like so jungly it's like a jungle bungalow and then we were like it's a jungle and the desire to combine words when you're younger I had a living room I had my first apartment the lichen because they were just like wasn't a proper kitchen and it wasn't a proper living room and there was somehow just like a couch in the middle of a kitchen with a trunk as a coffee table and it was like you know a hundred square feet and it was like and we're like the lichen and we just literally thought we were geniuses I I still think I'm a genius you are you are yours is cool putting words together I still think it's so fun and Yours is cool.

29:02Mine was the word lichen. Like disgusting. Lichen is like feels like a leech. It does not feel good. It doesn't feel good. Jungalo feels like you invented a cool word. Like lichen feels like you guys are just drunk. Well, I'm sure, I'm sure we've had a, I've had a lot of bad ideas too. So this, this was one that I, I liked and I enjoyed. And so I sort of held on to that moment and that word and I just thought it was cool. I've always really loved plants and also just really loved botanical motifs. Growing up, you know, I was born in 79 and my grandparents' home growing up, they lived here in LA.

29:44And it was like one of those homes where the wallpaper matched the furniture that matched the drapes. Like everything matched and it was all a botanical pattern with like birds and palms. And so I've just like that was kind of tattooed in my mind from that time. And I've always been really drawn to that pattern on pattern on pattern vibe. And so there was the word sitting there for the taking at the time for work. I was really just like a creative person for hire for whatever. So at the time, I was like styling for magazines, and I was designing logos, and I was designing websites for people. And I was consulting for people who were opening their own stores and kind of helping them with like branding and or starting blogs for them.