The State of Silicon Valley With Kara Swisher

16:12Gwyneth Paltrow:Yeah, once. I think we have a mutual acquaintance, my friend, Pat Keene. Do you know Pat Keene? Yes, yes, of course. So Pat, when he was at Google, he took me through the campus. Sure, it's cool. It was cool.

16:21Kara Swisher:It was like, oh, look, here we're making kombucha, and then over here we're doing this. And so it was always something weird. There was one time there was a Quonset hut they had in the office. Pardon? They wanted to test out office things, a Quonset hut. Okay. They thought it was interesting. Really? It was always like that. It was like, you know, suddenly there'd be a horse. Right. All right, a horse.

16:40Gwyneth Paltrow:I feel like this whole wave of founders were all about like being iconoclasts. Yes.

16:46Kara Swisher:Sometimes performatively so. Right. We want to build a chairlift in San Francisco to help people up the hills. I was like, that seems stupid.

16:54Gwyneth Paltrow:That's not really.

16:55Kara Swisher:Well, both Gavin News and I at the time he was mayor, we were like in front of us. And we were like, possibly no. So we were walking through Google and he had all these television sets. And I was like, what are you doing? And he goes, we're taping television. Like he talks like that. And I was like, all of, he's like all of television. And I was like, oh, for what? And he goes for search because we're going to learn how to search video and audio. And I was like, huh, interesting. Did you get permission from the copyright holders of all those television shows? Why do I need that? I said, because you're stealing.

17:31Kara Swisher:Like if you do it, no one else will. Same thing with books. They did the same. And I was like, because there's copyright. Everyone should have all the information. I was like, but you didn't pay for it. They did. And at the time he was like, what are you talking about? Information needs to be free. I said, but it isn't free. Like all these studios paid for this stuff and they own it and there's all these owners. And well, they're keeping it from the people. And I'm like, yeah, but now you're taking it and selling it back to the people. Anyway, it was at the time. That seemed to be an early issue, right?

18:01Gwyneth Paltrow:With music. I mean, you know this, right? Exactly. I mean, all those Napster fights. Yeah, I remember it well. Well, and still to this day, I mean, that business model is just completely.

18:12Kara Swisher:But they're doing it now. Like right now with content, like they scrape my content. I'm sure they've scraped your. We see bots on Goop all the time. All the time. Not just that, you, yourself. There's enough material to make a bot of you. Like here's Gwyneth. Gwyneth's AI, essentially.

18:28Gwyneth Paltrow:Then can I fucking retire?

18:29Kara Swisher:No, they're not going to give you the money. But they do it all the time. They make Grammarly made a whole Kara Swisher advice thing without Kara Swisher's opinion about it. Is that so? I threatened to, I mean, I was like, I'm going to sue you fuckers. Like, what are you doing? But they can do that. And then in the worst way, you as a parent understand this. They're doing, and it's bad for our health too, by the way, is AI bots. And I've been interviewing the parents of kids who commit suicide for years, for two years now. And saying, this is dangerous. They are acting like therapists and friends.

19:01Kara Swisher:And a human being having these interactions would be arrested for what these people are doing. But they don't care. They just put it out for 13-year-olds and don't think they have responsibility for their shoddy, shitty products.

19:13Gwyneth Paltrow:Right. And what's the regulatory? None. Right. And it's sort of they're paying the bill now, your favorite person, Mark Zuckerberg, and the impact that he's had on.

19:24Kara Swisher:Right. They've amplified and weaponized almost everything and then for their shareholder benefit. And that, to me, is like, great, I love innovation, but excuse me, you don't pay the cost.

19:34Gwyneth Paltrow:The rest of us have to pay for yours. How did we get here as a culture? I mean, obviously there's so much revenue and profit driving this whole thing. Of course, at the heart. That's like at the heart of it. But like, how do you think we got to this place in culture where sort of nothing matters? And all that matters is these kind of super rich white dudes who are breaking rules, setting rules, you know, seemingly like not caring so much about the downstream impact on everything mental health culture.

20:03Kara Swisher:They don't think they're responsible for the doubt. Like I had an interview, famous interview with Zuckerberg, where we talked about anti-Semitism. And I was like, what you're doing, at one point he said, Holocaust deniers don't mean to lie. And I was like, they do. That's the definition. But then I let him talk because I need you to understand his mentality, which was, I am not responsible for everything downstream. Like it doesn't matter. But if he was a chemical person dumping shit into the river, he gets sued. I mean, initially none of those people got sued. And it takes about 25 years because I don't think, how do we get here?

20:35Kara Swisher:I think we have an idolatry of innovators, an idolatry of wealth. And if you're wealthy, you must be smarter. When they got all manner of shortcuts and the innovations that they took advantage of were paid by the American public, by the way. The internet was invented by the United States government, not them. And it's great to be innovative and make these things and this rocket stuff. I'm so impressed by what SpaceX is doing. We can argue about the valuation of it, but it's still astonishing. And at the same time, why does a small, homogeneous group of people get to decide for the rest of us? Yeah.

21:11Gwyneth Paltrow:I'm fascinated by it because I feel like there's something so endemic to being an American about this idea of like - Yes, of course. Go West, young man. Right. And this idea that anybody can do it from whatever socioeconomic background and that - Sort of true. Right. But that we can, we put this hierarchy, it's like we're so hungry for a hierarchy in order to make sense of our lives or something like that. And we imbue these guys like with this extraordinary, I don't know, like. Godlike.

21:43Kara Swisher:Godlike. Right, right. But they're not. The problem is, is that when I was writing for the New York Times, I was just doing Collins because I wanted everyone to hear it. Everyone's like, why did you just do it for the New York Times? I'm like, because people, they pay attention to it. And therefore I was doing it at my website and it got impact, but it didn't have the impact. So I did, the first story I did was talking about, it was called the expensive education of Mark Zuckerberg. And it was about our cost, not his, right? He's learning on the job, but he controls social, he controls communications, and he's really not very smart about these big societal issues.

22:16Kara Swisher:Actually quite not. Not smart how? Because he's. He's not capable of deciding what, how to enforce free speech and what hate speech is. It should come down to our elected officials should figure it out, right? Our judges, our lawyers, our citizens. I mean, it's in the Constitution, right? Right, exactly. But it's one of the things that drove me crazy. I felt like, did you read the First Amendment? Because it says the government shall make no law, not you. You can control your products so that everybody, maybe that you have to pull back on some stuff, but you make it safe. Just like beef. There is bad beef or bad food, but people have to pay.

22:55Kara Swisher:Well, they don't have to pay enough for it. But anyway, one of the things that I really got struck by in 2019, I wrote a column where I said Trump was getting really dangerous online, I thought. And I reminded I'd studied the Holocaust. I'd studied all manner of propaganda in college. And I was like, what he's doing is very dangerous to let him go on. And I get the whole thing. He's the president. And so whatever he says, we're not used to whatever demented diarrhea he pumps out every day, which is getting worse because grandpa's losing it a little. but that's free. It's going to stay with me.

23:28Kara Swisher:It's diarrhea. It's what it is. It's like, and we're like, Hmm, what does diarrhea mean? I'm like, he's old and crazy and racist. Like, why are we, every time someone goes to me, can you believe what he said? I go, yes, I do. Yes, I do. Grandpa's crazy. Grandpa's racist, crazy and adult. So yeah, I kind of, and also misogynist, sexual harasser. I like, we got, we got all the information we need on this fella. Um, and it's always like, I can't believe it. That's what drives me crazy about the left.

23:56Gwyneth Paltrow:I think what people are saying is, you know, this, no matter how real imagined, right. Performative or not, whatever it is, like whatever, whatever's happening, it is never not unbelievable, which is good to say, can you believe it? Like that the strat, like whatever his strategy is, it's impossible to figure it out and know what it is and sort of be able to rest your laurels on, oh, it's this or that.

24:23Kara Swisher:The same thing happens around political discourse was, I wrote a column where I said, and I'm not going to tell you the date I wrote this. I wrote a column saying, Trump is on par to start, what if he loses the election? I'm going to give you a hypothetical. If he loses the election, he's going to tweet out to his followers or whatever for me happens to be on Truthout, to do something about it in a physical way. Stop the votes from being counted. He will do something in the real world. And so online hate will jump offline. I said, and there's going to be an insurrection. And I used the word insurrection, which was crazy.

25:03Kara Swisher:And I said, what would you do? I pose this question to all these leaders and they're like, whoa, we take them off the platform. I'm like, or we do this, we do that. And I said, and they said, what would you do? I said, I wouldn't have let it get this bad to begin with, because this is where it was headed very clearly. I wrote it in 2019, which was crazy. In the fall of 2000, I was like, this is exactly where it's headed because you could see the movement. And at the time I got so much pushback from Facebook and Twitter. They were like, how dare you say we are insurrectionists? And I said, no, you're handmaidens to sedition is what you are.

25:38Kara Swisher:and very willing ones because you make a lot of money. And so I was like, this is exactly what's going to happen. Like it's, it's so easy to see and I hope it doesn't, but it's not that hard to figure out. And so that's the kind of stuff is they just allow an enormous amount of misinformation and disinformation to go around. They benefit from it. And then they, they are so rich now, so rich, crazy rich. Our legislators are unable to do any legislation anywhere in the country. So states try to do it on some level. And the same thing is happening now around AI. And like I said, these parents, these lawsuits that are happening, they're not going to get out of it.

26:16Kara Swisher:Eventually, they will pay the price. But boy, are they good at, like right now with AI. Trump is a coin-operated president. Who was standing in the front row of that inaugural? It wasn't the elected officials. It was Jeff Bezos. It was Sundar Pichai from Google. It was Mark Zuckerberg, all their various wives. And they were there. That's who was sitting. Sergey Brin was in the back. Sam Alton was there. Tim Cook was there. Why were they there? Because he's a coin operator. At least we understand Trump on some level. He's a corrupt coin operator president. So not that I like that, but I get him.

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28:38Gwyneth Paltrow:Can we talk about Sam Altman for a second? Yeah, sure. Because obviously he's an interesting figure. So what is your take on Sam Altman?

28:49Kara Swisher:I met him when he was 19, when he had a company called Looped, 19 or 20 maybe.

28:52Gwyneth Paltrow:See, this is what I'm saying. You meet all of these guys so early and you kind of get adjacencies in these.

29:00Kara Swisher:Or you understand them a little better. You saw them before, in the before times. Often people are exactly the way. Rich, they're jerks rich and they're jerks poor. Right. You know, it doesn't really matter. Some people have all, Mark Cuban couldn't be a more wonderful person now. He's a great guy. Nice guy. And, but he was kind of a frat bro jerk when I met him. I'm like, yeah, we had a lot of fuck you texts back and forth. No, fuck you. No, fuck you. You seem like you have a lot of those. I do, but they end up being friends. Okay. I just had lunch with him. He's great, but he's doing all this stuff around prescription drugs.

29:32Kara Swisher:That is great. It's amazing. Amazing. Does he need to do this? Could he be on a boat in the South of France enjoying himself, certainly.

29:39Gwyneth Paltrow:But some people are really motivated by solving problems. And then I think it's a, it's a values thing, right? It's like, I recognize a problem or I recognize an injustice and they sort of throw their weight. Like a Mackenzie Scott, right?

29:55Kara Swisher:Perfect example. And we'll talk about her later because she's been giving a lot of money to health initiatives that are really important in the now for a lot of people versus themselves. And Sam is complicated. So he, one of the few gay people, I mean, out gay people, there's Tim Cook, him. So that's an interesting thing to take into mind because it's very, it's not misogynist. It is misogynist. It's a different kind of misogyny. You know what I mean? It's kind of not as explicit, but you know, it's also, you know, to be homophobic. There's homophobia. There's stuff like that. So in that time it was different for sure.

30:31Kara Swisher:And so I was always interested in him. And, you know, he also had a sort of a reputation for being manipulative, which I'm, you saw the Ronan Farrow piece where they thought was pretty fair, although Sam didn't. I didn't read it, actually. Yeah, it's an interesting piece. It's complicated. And one of the things he has is he's sort of, he's an aims to please person. At the same time, he can seem disingenuous at the same, which I'm like, I'm sorry, get in line. Like, you want to stack ranks disingenuous? I'm putting Peter Thiel up near the top, Mark Andreessen and Musk. So I don't know, which is a terrible way to live.

31:06Kara Swisher:But, but so he was, so he was really complicated. I like Sam. I actually do. At the same time, I recognize what he's doing. He's a real hustler and, you know, he's not as concerned with safety and less so. We, he and I had a back and forth in this series about that, about these kids, about the AI chatbots. I'm like, I think you're, I think someone should go to jail here versus, or take responsibility, or at least be sued so these parents get some - You said that to his face? Yes.

31:36Gwyneth Paltrow:See, this is what I'm talking about.

31:38Kara Swisher:So, you know, he's complicated. And I think Ronan, I think very fairly depicted the uneasiness around him, you know, in terms of who are these leaders who are running companies that are going to have such massive implications on our society. Now, we never knew the head of Lockheed or the head of whatever. But if you go back in history, Henry Ford had, you know, great industrialist car, thanks for the car, but huge anti-Semite. He used his Ford dealerships to put out this Dearborn newspaper he put out that was full of anti-Jewish, anti-Black, anti-women, whatever, whatever. He was just a miserable son of a bitch.

32:20Kara Swisher:Same thing. Like he had a lot of impact during that time period because of his crazy. Yeah.

32:25Gwyneth Paltrow:And imagine with so much less distribution, like everybody has. Right. Exactly.

32:30Kara Swisher:And so these people are making, so Sam is complicated, I would say. And I think probably, I might, I might predict he might not be head of open AI. There's a lot of.

32:40Gwyneth Paltrow:That's what I was going to ask you next. Yes.

32:41Kara Swisher:I think so. I think there's some, there's some real questions. The journal just said a piece about his investments. You know, I don't make any money from open AI. I go, oh, stop it. You're going to. There are benefits for you. He has other investments. They're a little bit opaque for people. And if you're a public company, you can't be this opaque. And so he's going to have to answer for that. That said, a lot of his critics can be a little high handed. Like they're all making money. Like I left open AI so I could be pure and do safety. And I just took$2 billion from Andreessen Horowitz. I'm like, oh, got it.

33:12Kara Swisher:Okay.

33:13Gwyneth Paltrow:You're helping the people. But isn't there something, I don't know. for me, I feel like he's sort of the fall guy for AI. Like he seems like he can never win in the public forum, you know, whichever. But he said a lot of stupid things. Like he's like, do you see how much?

33:28Kara Swisher:Not that one he said. I mean, yes, of course I've said dumb things. I'm sure you've had. Sure. But I didn't say, you know, having children takes a lot of energy. So why are we worried about AI? I was like, didn't you just had a baby? First of Paul, he just had a baby, which I'm very happy for him. But I was like, that's really not something you should say. Like that one, or Zuckerberg saying Holocaust deniers don't mean to lie. If you're in those positions of authority, you might want to like think carefully about how you put stuff out.

33:55Gwyneth Paltrow:And so I think. But at the same time, like, and I'm not defending anybody, but people are human. People learn on the job, especially in a completely new sector. People sort of discover who they are and what their principles are around it and, you know, where their boundaries are and like... Except they have no price.

34:13Kara Swisher:Like, Mark Zuckerberg can't be fired. His children can't be fired. Right. You can be fired. I can be fired. I can be fired. You know, well, actually I work for myself, so I'm not going to ever be fired, but you know, whatever. It's, they don't have any accountability. So there's no ability to do anything about it. And one of the things that I've noticed among all the tech moguls is they can't shut up about anything. Like, and now it's extending to other people, like Bill Ackman, who's a famous hedge fund person. Well, they're empowered by their own success and lauding. Why am I listening to him on something that he doesn't know anything about?

34:47Kara Swisher:Like, and so they really, you know, you'll see it with all of them. They're sort of like, I might as well tell you about this and that. But the, but the fact of the matter is they do have their hooks into all our legislators. They have PACs, These money going to these PACs is insane. I disagree with that just structurally. I don't know. We've got to get rid of Citizens United, but not just that. These PAC structures, like it doesn't always work. Look, Elon tried to affect an election in Wisconsin. I think it was. He had Wisconsin. And he lost. He spent$25 million because he's an incredibly unattractive spokesperson for the people, right?

35:22Kara Swisher:You don't like the jumping? No, the cheese hat did him in. When I saw the cheese hat, I was like, it's done. The people of Wisconsin do not like frolicking in their cheese hat. They like their cheese ads, but not on you, my friend. And so it's really, it's the lack of accountability. But I do think regular people, what they're trying to do is break us apart and show our differences versus our commonalities. The tech technologies, it breaks us up. It is meant, enragement equals engagement. It's true. You know? Yep. Except that we have a lot in common. And people are starting to like, look, you have Marjorie Taylor Greene agreeing with me about what we need to do about chatbots or whatever.

36:07Kara Swisher:Because then you start to like she was just the other day she was on Caitlin Collins on CNN with Ro Khanna and and and her. We're talking about the war and where they agree. And I literally texted Ro and I was like, what the actual fuck is happening here? Like, what is happening?

36:26Gwyneth Paltrow:There was overlap. No, they were agreeing, right?

36:28Kara Swisher:And I was like, where are we? And I was like, kind of happy about that. Like, we're, look, we're going to disagree. And she'll go back to some stupid trans thing she'll say, which she can't help herself. The rubber band always goes back to shape, right? On certain issues. Maybe she'll become enlightened about that. I don't know. I feel like that whole issue is such a like red herring. Oh, it's a red herring. There's like, I have interviewed so many people. I've interviewed one guy. It's like, this is the most important issue. I go, how many people? Please.

36:55Gwyneth Paltrow:How many people?

36:56Kara Swisher:But they know it riles people up. Yes, it does. And it certainly does because it goes to fairness, I guess, on some level. But it's so stupid. It's such a like, this is what they're doing. They're doing this with the shiny objects. But online, the shiny objects become super toxic. And it doesn't have to be online. It can be Fox News. Like my mother called me about trans fencers recently. And I was like, it's not an issue. Was she upset? Yes. It's terrible. You mean fencing? Fencing. How many are there, mom? None? Oh, okay. I think we can move along. And by the way, you're 92. It doesn't really matter for you.

37:27Kara Swisher:Like in the end. I just think it's interesting. Like I always try to think of transvencers. We must do something about it. Children's poverty. No, no, no. They're everywhere. Transvencers.

37:41Gwyneth Paltrow:I just always try to think about like, what is underneath something that becomes so motivating, like so urgent for people, you know? And is it, what is it? What is the fear underneath this sort of drummed up threat of trans people?

37:58Kara Swisher:I don't think it's actually there. Years ago, I wrote a story, which was really interesting. It was around celebrity stuff. So do you remember when Roseanne called Valerie Jarrett a terrible name? She compared her to, remember that. So she got drummed out, justifiably, by the way, because she's crackers, I got to say. And come on. Don't know her. Let's be. I'm just saying. Watch her, okay? Allegedly. Anyway, so she gets drummed out. And then Sam B., who I love, who's terrific, said something about Ivanka, called her name, got in trouble. Same thing. Probably shouldn't have done that. I don't like the name calling.

38:35Kara Swisher:Don't like it. Don't like it. It's undignified. Unless you're in Britain and then you can use it freely, whatever that particular word is.

38:40Gwyneth Paltrow:You know what? Just okay. Don't love it. I get it. But I'm just saying in Britain, it's sort of like. In Britain, it's less. Less. But like any name calling, it's so juvenile.

38:49Kara Swisher:Or at least do with a British accent. Anyway, so I'm just teasing. It's not great. So she got in trouble. So there was all this online thing. And I was like, this is a lot of online thing for something. I get it, but it was crazy. So I got this company that watches bots. These are these bots that create situation. What happened was these bots said, can you believe Roseanne Barr? How dare she? But then the same company - Oh, come from a British accent.

39:11Gwyneth Paltrow:Yeah, right, whatever.

39:12Kara Swisher:That's, I'm doing what I think bots sound like. Perfect. So this was a group, this was a bot that was like, how dare she do it? But the same company was putting out stuff that said, she's right. It's true. Blah, blah, blah. So it was creating these fights. And then humans got involved. But it was the bots who started it. The bots should be illegal. Exactly. And then the same company was on the Sambista. So it was the same company making the trouble. And then people, like it's attracted to an accident.

39:38Gwyneth Paltrow:Those people are the see you next Tuesdays.

39:41Kara Swisher:Yes, but it could be Iran. It could be Russia. It could be just companies just creating controversy. It could be political things. And so that we, we're human beings. And so we're going to be attracted to a traffic accident and immediately go into tribalness. And so that's, that's to me, it's so, it's like so selfish on their, on their parts to not understand the deleterious impact they have on all of us.

40:05Gwyneth Paltrow:I think they understand. I think they're just, you know, it's like Milton Friedman.

40:08Kara Swisher:They just profit, profit, profit. Well, the first line of my book was, so it was capitalism after all. But what drives me crazy, I've never had a Hollywood person. And listen, I have lots of issues with Hollywood. Go, I'm here for the people, Kara. I'm here to help everyone through my, some of them do it, but you know, like I'm here for the money. I'm selling the movie. I'm doing this. Same thing with like, I've never heard a banker go. What I really want is all of us to get along. I just, I don't expect it from them. But the tech people always had to like, I'm a simple person. I'm here for the people.

40:38Kara Swisher:I'm here for, how many times did I have a conversation with Mark Zuckerberg about he's here for the community? And I was like, so why do you get, why don't, can't you be fired then if you're here for the community and we're all making decisions? Why do you get a stock that allows you to make every decision? Have you talked to him? No, not me. He doesn't talk to me. He doesn't talk to you. Not after the second, two times we did interviews. One, he sweat. If you remember the sweating one where he's sweating how to take his thing off. Not my fault. Not his fault. Did you make the room really hot?

41:09Kara Swisher:No, I did. Yes, I did. I did. I did everything. I knew it. And then I gave him some chili peppers. No, he just had, he's just had a panic attack. That's all that happened. Wow. But I tried to help him by taking off his coat.

41:19Gwyneth Paltrow:Right.

41:19Kara Swisher:And then when he did the Holocaust thing, but I didn't say it. I actually tried to stop him. I was talking about Alex Jones. I was like, we shouldn't go to Holocaust. Right, right, right. Because you're wrong. Like it's bad. And he did it himself. And also we treat them like children, like they're toddlers. Yes. Like, oh, what did he say? I'm like, he's really rich and he's really powerful and we're treating them like. So what is the way forward through this stuff? I think some regulation, but not to quash innovation. Things naturally tend towards a monopoly. They tend to. But then you have these, it's like company towns.

41:52Kara Swisher:Like, how do we push innovation in this area? Where AI should be, there's a lot of cool innovations happening. And how do we avail itself? It's like saying, you know what? like plain old telephone service was critical for economic development or road, the highway system. What stuff is critical for the future of everybody and what stuff and where should they be taxed on that? Like, what if they had left telephone service just to the private companies? Do you know what would have happened? We wouldn't have had it. Like only the rich would have it, not the poor. And so what is, what is critical to, to everything?

42:27Kara Swisher:Like same thing with healthcare, the whole thing. Like why can only the rich benefit and why, why did they get to make decisions? Like I had a discussion a long time ago with Mark when he was giving money to the newer something that he was giving, they were giving enormous amounts of money and then they want kudos for their generosity, which I'm like, thanks. But really like, don't, that's what, that's what the money's for. Like, that's how you can assuage yourself. And, and he was like, well, I think it was generous. I was like, yeah, but why do you get to decide our priorities? Why don't we just tax you and let our elected officials don't know?

42:59Kara Swisher:I go, yeah, but they're elected. Like, I don't like Ted Cruz, but he was elected. Right. And so shouldn't he have more power over? I can't believe I'm saying this. I've said it several times on this term, but he should. No, I know. Sorry, but he should. The people of Texas picked him. You know, even Donald Trump should have more say, although he's gone overboard. But he was elected. Okay.

43:22Gwyneth Paltrow:So that is a really good segue to talking about your show in terms of like how the wealthy people are sort of, you know, even in your telephone company example, what would have happened if it was stayed privatized. But before we get there, because I'm dying to talk to you about this TV show.

43:38Kara Swisher:Okay.

43:38Gwyneth Paltrow:So right now it's an AI free for all, like all the VCs, I have a small fund. Everybody's, we're AI this, we're AI that. Are you going, Ben Affleck, I want one of those deals? I had that deal. Oh, you did? Oh yeah. Oh good. In 1990. Oh, right. Yeah. You know, yeah. I don't know. In the nineties I had that. Yeah. Yeah. You were active. There were a couple

43:58Kara Swisher:of you that were on board early.

44:00Gwyneth Paltrow:No, not that kind. I mean like. Oh yeah. So you went out with him. I forgot.

44:04Kara Swisher:See, that's how much I pay attention.

44:07Gwyneth Paltrow:No, me too. I forgot. Listen, it was like 30 years ago at this point. Okay. You're excused. But like, you know, and, and, And there's always, I think investing is so interesting and it's a whole other learning curve, right? Because it's like, what are the ethics of this? And like, we invested in open AI very early, not very, well, pretty early. And it's sort of like, okay, you know, and I still think the company has great legs and Sam could do the right thing. Like, I think he has a great opportunity, but who are the founders in AI right now that are not yet household names that you're super interested in.

44:43Kara Swisher:Well, you know, it's interesting because who is the Uber of this? Who is the, you know, who are, who are, who's going to be the AI for insurance? Who is the, I've noticed a lot of billboards, oddly enough, there's a lot of Hollywood billboards, but suddenly there's the legal AI and Jude Law's face is right there. You were in that movie with him. You know, his face is there for legal AI. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. It's on Sunset. Like, I know it's called. Listen, I would buy anything that Jude Law sells. Right, exactly. I was like, obviously the expert on legal AI is due law, but fine, whatever. Doesn't matter.

45:14Kara Swisher:Doesn't matter. He's so beautiful. He looks good. He's a rather large thing. But so there's one for legal. There's one for...

45:20Gwyneth Paltrow:So you're saying if you're looking at AI as like infrastructure, what are the interesting companies built on top of that?

45:27Kara Swisher:Early internet was Yahoo, Google came along later, some of the search engines, but then there was all manner of business in each area, right? Whether it was software, hardware, whatever it happens to be. So there's going to be a zillion companies. And they'll fall away. Some of them will. Most of them will. There were like 400 railroads at one time and then there weren't, right? Now we have shitty Amtrak, like, yay, we win. But that's really the problem is which ones are going to be it. And so if I were investing, I'd think, who is the leader in legal? Who is the leader in record keeping? Who is the leader in accounting?

46:03Kara Swisher:It's going to be the boring ones. And that's where the real money is going to be made. Okay. I have to talk about this show because I'm so. But do what you know, if you're making investments, what do you, what do you, what's something you have made more efficient using AI?

46:17Gwyneth Paltrow:I mean, I would say primarily the most fundamental thing is my bandwidth. Right. Like I have, I use Granola to listen in on all my meetings. Like the, my, my enterprise AI is connected to everything. I get summaries. I can, it can look across my Slack and tell me where there are bottlenecks on my team.

46:36Kara Swisher:So agentic is how you use it. Exactly. This word, this terrible word they've made. Agentic. Yeah.

46:41Gwyneth Paltrow:It's very, very, I mean, so, and I'm, I would say like I am, I engage with AI all the time. Right. And I find it incredibly useful. Right.

46:53Kara Swisher:But weren't you in the movie where they showed it off with, with the assistant that talked to him all the time? Oh, yeah. Think about that. Iron Man. Yeah, Iron Man. Yeah, you were in that movie. I saw you looked really nice in the suit. Thank you. Yeah, coming from you. Yeah, I know. It was good. Well, it's always good to wear a metal suit that can kill people. But think about that character in the show. That's how it could be, right? And I think if you look to science fiction, you can see where you go. Yeah. Like just a wearable. Like a wearable. Like 10 ,000 steps. What the fuck does that mean?

47:24Kara Swisher:What do you think about that? It doesn't mean anything right now. But with AI, you could go, what if something was in your ear? Like you had an AirPod or whatever it happened to be. and you, you ate it, like I use this example, you ate a donut and instead of like saying 10 ,000 steps, like what does that mean? What is it? It's, it's data without meaning. And it says, you know, you just ate that donut. What you really need to do is get up right now and go grab a cucumber and go for a walk. Use up that blood glucose. Right. Exactly. Like, but do, instead of monitoring, it would know. But that's all coming.

47:55Kara Swisher:I think monitoring is the first step. Yes, it is, but it's useful. When, when does it become, when does it, right now it's all kind of fun and interesting, but when is it, when is it provably useful to your life?

48:05Gwyneth Paltrow:I think it depends on the person. Like I've worn an aura ring forever. I had one, I'm not wearing it today.

48:09Kara Swisher:Cause I don't, I don't know what it's telling me. It's not telling me enough yet.

48:24Gwyneth Paltrow:For me, it tells me a lot and longitudinally it tells me a lot. Yes, it does. Especially going through perimenopause and these big changes. Yep. Like I really rely on, but I'm that kind of person.

48:37Kara Swisher:Right, you are, but it has to become very easy for people to understand why they're using it. And actually a lot of science fiction does explain like that. Ironman does, I'm always like, pay attention to Jarvis. Because Jarvis is how it's going to be, like, or it should be. Like, I've looked this up for you, but then it has to be accurate. Yeah. Right. It has to be scientifically proven. it can't give you bad information and it can't be fucking sneaky and doing all manner of things behind the scenes. And that's a lot of it is like, if you look at early internet sites, everyone's like, oh, it's glitchy.

49:10Kara Swisher:I'm like, it's not going to be, it's not going to be. So what are the applications that you could use, especially in health that are actually actionable information that you can use that are scientifically proven rather than just getting your information from some lady on Instagram, right?

49:25Gwyneth Paltrow:There's science behind why 10 ,000 steps a day more or less.

49:29Kara Swisher:There is, but it's not, it doesn't, yes, but it's not enough. It's like, because it has to be individualized to you, right? And what you're doing that day.

49:37Gwyneth Paltrow:But this is why it's about to get so exciting. It is 100%. Because like with the hyper personalization of your data or assessments made on all of our data cheaply, like, and at scale, we will have the power as individuals to really positively impact how we feel.

49:53Kara Swisher:It is sent out among everybody. And that's the problem. Now it's whoever can pay the price, right? But isn't that how it starts? Not always. No, because right now there's so much great information out about people's behaviors and everything else. Our health is being sold back to us in a way that it needn't be. And a lot of the things, as you know, that you do for health are not profitable. It's not necessary, right? It's diet, it's sleep, it's exercise. 10 minutes in the sun. 10 minutes in the sun. It's social. It's social. Right, exactly. It's loving, yeah, social, loving your people. Social is number one.

50:28Kara Swisher:I mean, someone was like, what have you learned from this? One of the things I learned is like, don't be poor, be rich. That helps with longevity. Sorry to tell you, every study shows it. And the second thing is social interaction and being part of a whole in a community. And a lot of what online has done to us is hurt our health. It just has, just demonstrably using AI. Of course, we sit more, we scroll more. It's not just sedentary. We're lonely. We're isolated. Men, you know, young men spend too much time with born and young women, the self-esteem. I interviewed your. Scott. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's his thing.

51:00Kara Swisher:A good talk about it. He should get the fuck offline so much. But he did. He went off Twitter. He feels better. But what's really the problem is that it's not being, it's being used to sell products to us before they're first, before many of them are baked and whether there's enough science to them. And secondly, you're looking for these easy fixes.

51:19Gwyneth Paltrow:But don't you think on some level, like, and, and, and look, as like an early pioneer in wellness, we definitely got criticism for this. Speaking of planes are covered with bodies. But I think, you know, because really we were always in integrity and like the intent was not to exploit, like we've always gotten, gotten, come through it. But I do think there's a, for a certain, like, and again, it's like part of this American sort of optimization, let's try, let's see how much we can be the stewards of our own outcomes, like across all different verticals. And I think with wellness, because of the pharmaceutical industrial complex, our medical complex, the way that this is awesome.

52:09Gwyneth Paltrow:The diabetic industrial, I agree with all those things. People are like, hey, wait a minute. Like, I don't trust this. And I understand that, you know, there's all this, you know, these big pharma companies are giving me all this data about why all these drugs are going to help me. But like, what if I just try eating better or moving my body? And like from the experience, the felt experience of taking small steps to improve wellness, it's sort of, it all kind of bloomed.

52:37Kara Swisher:It is, but you know, it's sort of like saying, you know, there's a lot, there's a quote I used in the book, which was from a philosopher, a French philosopher. And he's like, when you invent the ship, you invent the shipwreck. When you invent electricity, you invent the electric chair. Why do we have to disdain the tech, good parts of the technology, which are really real, like, and will help us optimize, if that's the word you want. I don't love that word because it's always used selfishly.

53:02Gwyneth Paltrow:I don't actually love it too, but I struggle to find another word.

53:05Kara Swisher:Right. No, but it's to try to figure out why not think about what's better for the rest of us and the way it's being articulated to a lot of people. And especially because all these tech billionaires are paying for it. Some of them are doing it well. Larry Ellison's doing it well with institutes and science and everything else. What can we use? How can we take science and technology? Yes. Yes. How can we take science and technology and use it for the betterment of everyone versus a small group of people? And it's done in this way.

53:32Gwyneth Paltrow:Because everybody thinks about it the same way they think about like trickle down economics, right? Like the rich people will do it and then we'll all get it.

53:39Kara Swisher:But it's not ever true. It is not true. No, it's never true. And so what we do is, you know, there's been a lot, you know, again, Hollywood's a good way to look. Like there's a lot of movies and I'm recalling there was a Jodie Foster movie with Matt Damon where he's on the earth and can't get the medical attention. Oh yeah. What was it called? I forget. Up in the sky. She was crazy bitch up in the sky. Right. You know, with all the medical issues and they have to get the kid to the bed. Great, great movie. Right. Anyway, anyway, they, so it's, it's kept from everybody else. And so we're, what we're doing is it can optimize rich, but it's, this is not going to go down.

54:12Kara Swisher:And then there's all these issues about privacy concerns, like around all this health information. And so it's, so what prompted me is, first of all, I was at so many dinner parties, which I suspect you were at a lot of these, where all these guys, and they were all guys telling me about all their different things. First, it was intermittent fasting. There's a lot of shows that some of that is good if it's done correctly. Then it was soylent for a minute and a half, right? Remember that? We're going to optimize our time by not eating. I'm like, you are going to be a joyless piece of shit if you do that, but fine.

54:41Kara Swisher:A piece of bread is great. I hate to tell you. They tried one thing after the next. I'm taking this. I'm taking NADS. Psychedelics. Psychedelics. All of which. Hyperbaric. Let's look. Do not do that. That one you must stop doing. Okay. I don't do hyperbaric. Okay, good. Because it's not good. Like if oxygen is good, three times is better. I'm like, no. Incorrect. Incorrect answer. If you have the bends, knock yourself the fuck out. You know, you got a wound, I'm down for you to get in there. climb on in the coffin and it's great but otherwise not good again again they're selling it to people so three four hundred five hundred dollars to get in there and do something that's not going to help you scientifically proven so far if it's proven i'm down for it but one of the things so i was at these dinner parties and first thing that struck me was when women are doing these things whether they're sucked into the diet complex which i think is just as dangerous right Right.

55:33Kara Swisher:This one diet after the next. When women, it's body dysmorphia. Which hopefully has been now undermined meaningfully by GLP ones. It's a combination, right? It's going to be a combination. So one of, I'll get to that in a second, but when women do it, it's body dysmorphia. When men do it, it's body hacking. It pisses me off so much. It pisses me off, exactly. Right. Like repeating this stuff. So I was sort of like, gosh. Measuring their boners while they sleep and stuff. Yes, I interviewed him. He's a poignant figure. I can't wait to watch that.

56:04Gwyneth Paltrow:You know, my son is really intrigued by him and follows him, which I, Brian Johnson, who we're talking about now.

56:10Kara Swisher:But he's an experiment of one. He's not going to help the rest of us. That's what, so anyway, so then they started, he came, as I said, came to my conference and talked about brain health and his depression and everything else. And so I'm fine with it, but then it turns into this narcissistic, and he says it, Brian Johnson says it, then I become this narcissistic Patrick Bateman motherfucker. And I'm like, yeah, that's correct. Because what you're doing doesn't help everybody. Why can't I just put it out there? I'm like, you can, but you're not really helping people.

56:38Gwyneth Paltrow:But I would, I would push back on that only because like my son who follows this guy who, you know, I don't follow him. I, I'm not his demographic. Um, my son, I now hear things, you know, it's like, if it's coming from me, like, Hey, eat some greens. It's like, get it out of my face. But it's like, well, Brian Johnson says, you know, I really need to, you know, whatever it is. Like, and there are the right things like sleep better. Some of the stuff he says is absolutely right. Right. So I do think that.

57:08Kara Swisher:Except then he moves on to hyperbaric chambers. Then he moves out to like, wanting to inject yourself with. No, because he goes and does it. Like, I'm going to go down and put, inject myself with things that are very dangerous. And so,

57:20Gwyneth Paltrow:but like if that, if he exists theoretically, if it's theater to sort of move the Overton window over or let people think about the idea of access, access.

57:32Kara Swisher:If he's only with those messages, I guess, but you know, you yourself got slapped back to last Sunday over a couple of things, right? So I don't understand why they're allowed to do this when they're, if you look at like RFK.

57:47Gwyneth Paltrow:And we didn't even do anything. I mean, like when you look back, it's like, oh, we talked about gluten-free food and.

57:53Kara Swisher:But here's the deal. Why do they, Right now, the amplified weaponized information environment means people are getting some really bad information. I agree. And that's the, you have then a responsibility not to, and he says it in this interview. He's like, I'm like, but you're an influencer. And he's like, yeah, you have to play the game. I'm like, do you? If you really want to help people, why not, why not back gold standard tests that'll help all of us?

58:17Gwyneth Paltrow:Because a lot of times I would argue those tests are never going to benefit a large corporation.

58:24Kara Swisher:right so like a lot of times why doesn't he pay for them though he should that's what i said he goes well how many can i pay for i go a fucking buttload my friend like why does it have like you know what i mean like why is there money spent on this stuff if they're really going to be generous look at mackenzie scott he would need a double blind like placebo-backed study on one thing would be in measurable health for people by himself like okay you want to talk about red lights let's have a real study that's very thin on the studies right so let's have like i'm not dismissing it. I'm just saying you're selling people all manner of what they do is there's one thing applies in a small way and helps inflammation or whatever.

59:03Kara Swisher:And then it solves everything. It like takes you out to dinner. It babysits your kids and it leaves you breakfast in the morning. It doesn't do that. Like, and so people, it's the same thing as the diet complex. Like, oh, if you do the grapefruit now, Gwyneth, you're going to do this. And it's one after the next. And it's not, it's not lifetime changes that we need to do to get everybody healthier. And a good example for GLP-1s, groundbreaking tech. Like, and then the other part, first there's the misinformation I was furious about. Then there was all this narcissism. A lot online, just the online, like the wellness space.

59:37Kara Swisher:Like there was two wellness influencers and I called them and I said, where'd you get this information? Well, we Googled it. I go, well, it's actually inaccurate completely. And I'm like, but you're saying it and people are believing you. Oh, we'll fix that. I'm like, no, no, no. You're telling, like, you've already done the damage. Like, how dare you? But they were benefiting and so was YouTube. And so I was irritated by the misinformation, just like I am in the political misinformation. It's really deceptive and dangerous for people. And so what I want to do is, like, let's lean into marrying technology with socially responsible things and our government, who should be caring for the people.

1:00:12Kara Swisher:That's, government isn't there to make money. The government is there to help everyone, allegedly, is there. And so that's what I was looking at. And then I tried all the nonsense stuff because it's funny. What did you try? Oh, I did. I got in the hyperbaric chamber and I came out looking like a baby. It's astonishing how fantastic I look from that single thing. I did, you know, the red light, there's a funny scene of in like a coffin of red light. Like it's a$70 ,000 thing. It's crazy. Like, and again, it's in one of these high end health things and like promising all manner of stuff that it's, there's some promise around inflammation.

1:00:48Kara Swisher:There's some promise around hair. We did, we did the PRP thing. Again, willing to listen, right? Willing to see. I tried the PRP thing for my hair.

1:00:56Gwyneth Paltrow:It didn't work.

1:00:56Kara Swisher:Yeah. It doesn't work for some people. Some people don't like Rogaine because it gives them heart palpitations. What we should be pushing this stuff forward. Sometimes it works, but now it's unregulated. It's all these clinics that are everywhere. So what are people might be getting sold, just like in the old days, snake oil salesmen, right? I did ketamine because it's a really interesting thing. And I saw that it was not great for you. I didn't like it. No, I don't have trauma that I'm trying to address. In certain cases, we should be doing these studies about how it helps, especially with SSRIs are so dangerous.

1:01:31Kara Swisher:Yeah, treatment-resistant depression. Right, exactly. But sometimes it doesn't work that long. Sometimes it does. And of course, it immediately, there's all these clinics unregulated. Why? If this is supposed to be something so amazing, why not really deploy it to the population and not let the drug companies run the show? But look, we have them. So how do we work with them responsibly so that it'll benefit the most people? Was there anything that you did that you thought, hey, there's really something to this? Yes, a couple of things. I did a sound pod with Scott Galloway, which was fun, which was kooky.

1:02:02Kara Swisher:What's a sound pod? It's this new pod that vibrates and plays, you know, indigenous music at you and then you supposedly everything gets solved. But some stuff is obviously music has been helpful to humanity. So what is it that you could do? It's around meditation. I think Scott fell asleep, so it didn't really help him. No, that is, that is helpful. Right. Exactly. I was in the Equinox has these new sleep, sleep rooms, you know, which is like, I heard they're great. They are, but at the same time they cost like, like, you know what you could do? You could put a shade on, put that fucking phone down and lower the temp.

1:02:36Kara Swisher:I know, but like, there's such a tam for this kind of like a hundred percent. You know, like, I'm fine if rich people want to do this. I'm good. Like take their money. It's great. I just want it to be deployed for everybody. Like what should, and in, in an exchange with Brian Johnson and I had, he goes, I'm just trying to give people things to do. Like you could eat olive oil. Correct. You could do, you know, more strength training or balance training? Absolutely. Everyone can sleep more. And I was like, Brian, everyone can't sleep more. Poor people can't. They have two jobs. They've got the homelessness.

1:03:09Kara Swisher:They have, they're worried about healthcare.

1:03:11Gwyneth Paltrow:Well, there's a real like Maslow's hierarchy to this, you know, it's like, of course, when you're talking about optimizing your, all of these things, you're talking about people at the top of the pyramid. And that's probably what you're cynical about.

1:03:25Kara Swisher:I'm cynical. It's because they're like, if only people did this. I'm like, you know, people can't like the same thing. Like when everyone lost their frigging mind over Zoran about me talking about grocery stores and poor neighborhoods, like they're like, how did he do communism? Although meanwhile, Trump's like investing in Intel and taking a dollar off of every vig of every deal that we do. Like, give me a break. You know, he's getting money for that steel thing, whatever the hell he's doing there. Like, give me a break with these people. But then he's like, We need healthy foods in poor neighborhoods and everyone's losing their minds.

1:03:55Kara Swisher:And I'm like, you know what? They can't get an apple. Yes, you're right. They need to eat an apple. We need to also have it in schools to talk about nutrition.

1:04:04Gwyneth Paltrow:I think it's a great idea. And I'm like, it's going to hurt the bad dig.

1:04:07Kara Swisher:I'm like, is it? Because they're not selling the apples either. Because it's not like, so we may have to fund that. Why don't we talk about an apple? Like, that's the kind of stuff. Like, that doesn't, I'm here to sell you an apple. Like, can you imagine? It's not really a great business. is it? Probably, probably. The Gwyneth apple will be beautiful though. It will come from the Gwyneth tree. She picked it, she wrapped it and sent it to you. Exactly. I think you should do that. Well, I have Goop Kitchen, which is kind of. Yes, you do. It's actually lovely. I love Goop Kitchen. Thank you very much.

1:04:35Kara Swisher:It's actually really well done.

1:04:35Gwyneth Paltrow:Thank you very much. I mean, and that's.

1:04:37Kara Swisher:But how can you then translate to cheaper, right?

1:04:40Gwyneth Paltrow:Well, it's very difficult because what you're talking about is, I mean, we in this country, we have made. Industrial farming. Industrial farming, so pervasive and so cheap. And then forget about highly refined. And, you know, it's like everything is that we've made food product. It's not food. But those are people's expectations around pricing and it's understandable. But, you know, I mean, I know for me, I really wish we could go back to a culture around having your own garden, obviously in the Northeast. But, you know, before World War II, almost all Americans grew something. Right. And even just that act of like growing something that you're picking and eating.

1:05:25Kara Swisher:You know, I mean, one of the things that's interesting, years ago I interviewed a European regulator. It was amazing. And she said, you know, you Americans have traded convenience for everything. I know. Like everything, because it's like a map or this, and you've traded away. You've become a cheap date for the internet. And I was like, we have, we've given us our pride. We've given us all our information for what? A dating app and a map and they get all the money. Like to me, I was like, you're a fucking cheap date. Why don't we get a piece of it? And so one of these things around the healthcare is it's so important.

1:05:59Kara Swisher:Healthcare costs in this country are double. It's$15 ,000 per capita a year. Insane. And guess where we are at the bottom of every list, mortality, everything. We're at the bottom. Europe, six,$7 ,000.

1:06:11Gwyneth Paltrow:Obesity, diabetes, heart disease. Why is that?

1:06:14Kara Swisher:So we're getting a bad fucking deal. And so that's my thing. I'm like, why are we getting the worst? Because it's a perfect flywheel. Exactly. So that's why that one thing, I had to say the number one thing, universal healthcare, a basic level of healthcare.

1:06:28Gwyneth Paltrow:And I think you should leverage your reputation as the scariest journalist on the planet. Okay. I'm going to sell supplements now.

1:06:37Kara Swisher:No, not for that. I'm going to do the Gwyneth Apple. I want to do the fucking Gwyneth Apple. Let's do a collab. I think you should - Gently place it in the beautiful handcrafted -

1:06:48Gwyneth Paltrow:We can do like, we can make ceramics to hold the apple. I mean, imagine. But I think you should wield your influence. It's a vagina in some fashion.

1:06:56Kara Swisher:It's like the next vagina candle. Yeah, perfect. By the way, my sons love their vagina candles. I gave them to them. You sent them to me. We had to stop making them.

1:07:05Gwyneth Paltrow:Do not be proud of that. Be proud of the vagina candle. I am. But it was just became, people tried to, it was like this great feminist statement. I know that. I love the Vagina Camel.

1:07:16Kara Swisher:Let me just tell you, I'm friends with Jennifer Beals and we were in Las Vegas and there was a flash dance. She like goes like this against flash dance because she's so easy. And I go, own fucking flash dance. Own it. Flash dance is the best. Own it, own it, own it. I own the Vagina Camel. I love it.

1:07:32Gwyneth Paltrow:It's just annoying that people are so reductive that they can't, couldn't get the point of it. That sounds weird. My sons love it. They're so happy with their vagina. Maybe I need to bring it back. Bring it back.

1:07:43Kara Swisher:The last thing you said, what worked? VO2 max was really interesting to find out what that is. Yes. And I don't think it's expensive sometimes, but it's a really good indicator of your, of longevity and health. And if you improve your VO2 max, amazing. Okay. I start, one of the things Zeke mentioned was doing things that you're uncomfortable doing, trying new things. So he's a cancer researcher. He learned to make honey. He does ballroom dancing. does short order cook something you I just recently had a mahjong party why I don't know I just did the tiles believe me this is like sweeping the nation I right it is I know I know it's pickleball of 2026 as I say so so doing things I shall not um I but it was interesting like um I spend a lot more time with my kids like and quality time like real time you don't have to spend tons and tons of time but it really like my daughter and I started making I happen to like Instagram food videos.

1:08:36Kara Swisher:And so we made butter. They're fun. We made butter. We made bread. We do stuff like that. We try, I'm making this staple car with my son, like we saw it online. And so that was kind of fun. I'm using online things. The 23 year old, of course. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The 21 year old could build a car and run away. He's a technologist, but stuff like that. And I think if people start to do that, and I do think absolutely, And this is an opportunity for business. People are tired of extremely online. They want to be with people. I agree. COVID made us crazy. Crazy. Crazy. And accelerated online trends are some of which are good, some of which are bad.

1:09:14Kara Swisher:And so people, I met with this bunch of students in, I met students, young people in Brooklyn. They play games. It's a game night. I went with a neuroscientist who was explaining what was happening from a cognitive point of view. That's cool. It was cool. And they're all playing games and they're meeting with each other and talking and no phones. And that was astonishing. I met with this group of people called time, something time to, you get introduced to six people you've never met and you meet and play bowling and have dinner. Do you know how hard that is? I love it. I would love that. Well, that would be, they'd be shocked.

1:09:48Gwyneth Paltrow:I mean, I should. I know. It was time, something. I always try to meet strangers though. That's the other thing. Like I always, you know, I, like I had a thing yesterday and I was like, I'm pretty new up here. And I was like, bring, just bring cool people. I want to meet. I want to meet. I'm very into that.

1:10:05Kara Swisher:But the last thing is interactions with people you don't know, even if they're brief, they're so good for your health. I can't even tell you if you have one health hack, meet, like when you're in it. And my son taught me this because he's the friendliest person on earth. Whenever he goes, he goes, he like, he's doing it like a minor with a cashier, barista, whatever it happens to be. he goes, Hey, how was your day? This is what happens to people. I've started doing it. It is crazy how much it works. People go like this, like this, because they don't get asked how their day is, but, and then you have an interaction and it's a small thing, but I have to tell you, there's, you're trading so many health benefits and it's not going to solve, it's not going to make you live nine years more, but it is going to make you live a second longer.

1:10:48Kara Swisher:And so, or maybe more, in a more fulfilled way. Whatever, in a more fulfilled way and it's cognitively helpful and it, it helps you, it helps them and it's kind. And that's the one thing that you have to recognize is that, that social interactions with people and not your phone and not people on your phone. And I love my phone. My, this is, I love my phone. It's crack. I know, but it is. And so that's the one thing is spend time with people. And that's the real business opportunity, by the way too.

1:11:17Gwyneth Paltrow:Well, I cannot wait to watch the show. Thank you. It's been an incredible pleasure. Thank you. As usual. I'm sorry we went over. That's okay. No problem. It's up to you. But you're just so interesting.

1:11:25Kara Swisher:Oh, I am very interesting.

1:11:27Gwyneth Paltrow:You really are.

1:11:28Kara Swisher:All right. I want you to watch K-Pop Deep in Honors though. Please. Fine. No, don't, don't. I'm telling you. I will. If you have children, you know this. It's like - My children are grown up. Yes, but you need to watch it. You'll be like, thank you, Kara, so much for watching the show. Really? It's a wonderful show. And by the way, the messages in it are very much, very important messages. Very subtle, very smart. Okay. You watch Rivalry, right? Correct. You know, I haven't seen that yet. Oh my God.

1:11:52Gwyneth Paltrow:What are you doing? I watch murder shows.

1:11:54Kara Swisher:Okay. Really? Yeah. No. No. I think it's... What movie are you in? You've ever in a new movie, right? Oh, you were in Marty's... I was in Marty's Supreme. I have not seen that yet. Well, so...

1:12:05Gwyneth Paltrow:I am going to watch it. That's your homework. I'm going to watch Marty, but I don't... God damn it. I hate to say it, but I don't like Timothy Schell. Oh my God.

1:12:12Kara Swisher:He looks like a woman I've dated. I'm sorry. I know you're not supposed to. I don't know him. I don't know. He's great. I'm sure he's a nice guy. And he's talented. I get it. He just looks like women I've dated many years ago. This is over.

1:12:30Gwyneth Paltrow:Thanks for tuning in. This has been a presentation of Cadence 13 Studios. I hope you'll listen, follow, rate, and review all of our episodes, which are available for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts.