What We Get Wrong About Manifestation

0:00I get so many headaches every month. It could be chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox, on a botulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those who have 14 or fewer headache days a month. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk.

0:31Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. I've been in and out a lot lately for work, press and photo shoots, the usual whirlwind.

1:08And I was just thinking about how much I love settling into a real home when I'm on the road. There's something special about staying in a space that feels lived in and welcoming. It makes the experience feel more connected to the place. When I book a stay on Airbnb, I can make simple home cooked meals, have a few friends over and ease into a rhythm that feels more grounded than being in a hotel. And it's such a simple, practical idea for anyone heading out of town. You can host your home on Airbnb while you're away. Your place would be sitting empty anyway, and hosting can bring in a little extra money to put toward future travel.

1:50If you're traveling this season, consider hosting your home on Airbnb and let your space work for you. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host.

2:09Don't hold anything too tightly. Just wish for it, want it, let it come from the intention of real truth for you and then let it go. For me, our soul is like it's unbound. It's limitless, but we will use words to limit ourselves. When people stop believing that somebody's got your back or Superman's coming, we turn to ourselves and that's where you become empowered. Courageous participation attracts positive things. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow and this is the Goop podcast, where we bring together visionaries, scientists, healers, artists, and seekers. I'm so grateful that I get to interview these extraordinary thought leaders and share their wisdom with you.

2:58And I love listening to the conversations that are led by my co-host and dear friend, Cleo Wade. Cleo is a beautiful poet and author. I deeply admire her and the way she keeps her heart open to the world. Together, we believe that engaging in open-minded, honest, and sometimes difficult conversations has the power to change our lives. All right, over to Cleo. I'm really excited to introduce today's guest on the podcast, not only because I'm a huge fan, but because she is a cherished friend of mine. Sanaa Lathan is an iconic actor, producer, and director. Her credits include beloved classics like Love and Basketball, Brown Sugar, and The Best Man.

3:46We got together to talk about friendship, the power of gratitude, spirituality, and how she has come to navigate different aspects of the entertainment business as a Black woman. What I love the most about Sanaa is that she is a seeker. She can find a gift in pretty much any situation. It is such a joy to see her fully stepping into her own power, and I cannot wait to share this conversation with you. And P.S. The entire episode does not sound like this. I recorded this intro at a later date. I'm currently in New Orleans at Jazz Festival, which if you know me, you know is something I do every year.

4:28I sing, I dance, and I have the time of my life. And I think this year I had too much fun because I completely lost my voice. Please enjoy this episode. It is amazing. And I do sound normal in the episode. Thanks, everyone. Okay, let's get to it. Well, I'm obsessed with you. The feeling is mutual. You're such an inspiration seeing you grow. And I'm so happy that you reached out because part of my intention this year is to start like coming out again and, you know, creating a new soul community of friends. You know, I have a tendency to kind of be a little kind of introverted and a little bit of a hermit and, you know, just stick to my little circle, but I'm ready to kind of branch out again.

5:19I feel like a lot of Virgos I know, including myself, had a really hard time post COVID And then feeling like, okay, how do I make new community? Because I think also for you, I imagine given your really unique upbringing, and I'd say that that upbringing goes into probably your Saturn's return. So I feel like that we're in our adolescence until we're 28 and so they're 30. And I think there's 40. Right. And when it's that unique, you really require unique circumstances to heal, unique types of relationships to feel safe in. And so do you feel like, is it instant connection that makes you feel safe with somebody or is it, Oh, I've just known them my whole life.

6:07And that's why I determined, cause I always wonder this, especially about celebrities. How do you feel out who's safe or what feels right or what doesn't? You know, even before I was a quote unquote celebrity. I was just always very gut based with my friendships. I'm such a girl's girl. I love women. Even when I was a teenager, I had two best friends. It's like every stage of my life, I always had best girlfriends. And that has kind of extended into now. I feel like with me, it is just how I feel in my gut when I'm with them. It's as simple as that. And when I don't trust that. That's where I get into trouble.

6:50I call that when I get hijacked. Yes, I get I'm very intuitive. And it's interesting, because there were friends that were around me, you know, for several years that it's such a late time to learn about boundaries, but I was never taught boundaries. And I went through a period of intense therapy, like a couple years before the pandemic. And one of my biggest things was about boundaries. And I have the problem of being too much of a giver. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and then what happens is then you always get hurt because if there's not an agreement and there's not reciprocation, you know, a reciprocal nature to the relationship, then you get hurt.

7:37But you are part of the problem because you're just an overgiver. That's part of my love language. And I think when you're high functioning and high energy, I wrote about this in my new book that one of the mantras for someone who has that, which I also do, is just because something is in my capacity doesn't make it my responsibility. And so I think a lot of the time we sit here and we're like, oh, yeah, I could do that. I'll throw it on like, oh, sure. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then what it does is we are attracting people to our capacity instead of to ourselves. Oh, that's so, that's so poetic.

8:16Oh my God. That is so true. I remember seeing you around the time where you did that intense therapy and it was, I remember thinking after I saw you, I was in the car and I was like, I feel so happy for her because I feel that it's disruptive and really beautiful to look at your life with the most honest possible eyes and every person in it. And, and, and when that happens, you, I think two things happen. One, you're like, whoa, these are all the people in my life that were responsible for me as a child. My relationship with them is probably all the reasons I didn't have boundaries because they thrived on a lack of boundaries because that way, I mean, I know that, you know, with mentoring or having my kids or whatever, where you're like, yeah, you know, you see how easy it could be to be the person who's like, everyone just has to respect what I want to do because that's my feeling, my power as the grownup here.

9:21Absolutely. And then you end up, and if your parents were like that, which my parents were a little bit, sorry, guys, you end up attracted to people for a long time who are like that. and on the receiving end? So for me specifically, my parents were Eleanor and Stan. I grew up in the 70s in America. They were both Black artists. And I think my mother was 23 when she had me, and dad was 25. And they were babies, right? And so imagine if it's hard for an artist of any color right now to make it, let alone a black person in this business. Imagine what it was like, you know, in the seventies. And so they had to cope.

10:08They were, you know, chasing their dreams. They were on the road and there was a lot of addiction in my family. A lot of, you know, people are coping with their lives and the struggle of their lives through addiction. I don't fault any addict because I know how hard this life is. And so I was left alone a lot as a child and sometimes left in the care of people who I shouldn't have been in the care of in terms of addictions. And what happens when you're a child of parents who have addictions in whatever way, from zero to seven, you're kind of in this unconscious, hypnotic kind of state. And you absorb good and bad everything around you so that you wind up creating those patterns later in life.

10:59And it's whoever you're around during that time. So it's not just mom and dad. It could be aunts or it could be the friend who takes care of you. And so for a child of an addict, what happens is instead of being focused on themselves, which they should be, they are hyper aware of the needs of mommy or daddy or whoever is the caretaker. And it trains you to become this person who is kind of in a weird way, what I, it's called codependence. It's kind of unbalanced wherever I go to this day, I'm hyper aware of other people's emotions. Yeah. You're not on the map, you know, or the way you feel that you're able to put yourself on the map is based on how it helps another to function.

11:46And it's so unconscious. And so it'll be something like I'll be in a room full of people and I'll be uncomfortable because there's something that I'm intuiting or, you know, feeling empathically about this other person when I really should be focused on myself. So a lot of my boundaries were not just about, you know, physical boundaries of like, you know, not giving all your time to, you know, people or things. A lot of the boundaries that I'm, that I had to learn and are still in practice are those emotional boundaries. We're taught to just help and give and that, and I do so much, but then there has to be a limit, you know.

12:25I get so many headaches every month. It could be chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox, on a botulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those who have 14 or fewer headache days a month. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk.

12:57Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. Did you have a kind of reckoning, whether it was within your family or long-term friends, once you kind of had this in, because that type of information, I think is something that changes us cellularly.

13:39Like I remember the first time I read a self-help book and it changed my brain. I mean, it changed the way I thought and did, and it changed my career path and it changed everything about me. And I think that there's some things that the information is actually a download that upgrades your kind of your system. So my mom is what I call a spiritual seeker. So my whole childhood, she, she was, you know, traditional Christian to she, she studied Santeria. She said she, she was a Muslim for a period. She was even a Scientologist way back in the day for a period. And so, you know, I just looked at her and I was like, that's mommy.

14:22Once I got into my 20s and got into the business, it's so funny, those programs kind of come into play. And I'm like, okay, how do I get through this brutal business? I love the acting. I love being a storyteller. But the business of Hollywood is brutal. And it's there's so much rejection at every level. But especially when you're first coming in, you're auditioning, they're saying, no, she's not this, she's not that. And that was that time when they could say anything. Right. Right. And so for me, I immediately kind of went to the spiritual seeking. And early on, like, I think when I was like 26 or 27, I had a woman, a black woman named Debbie, who was kind of like a spiritual mentor to me.

15:12And she really helped me get through whether it was from my relationships or, and she was kind of a spiritual psychologist. So she used all kinds of modalities and that was kind of my beginning, my foray into this spiritual seeking that I still do to this day. So at that time, but that's, that's even later when you're on the set of like family matters, which I could literally sing the theme song right now. should do that was such that I felt like I made it when I got that no that was beyond like and I'm like it's a fair condition I love it family matters or and Moesha like I mean but is that time you know that's not that age where you were with that spiritual kind of guide.

16:11It was good. Yeah. It was around that time. Yeah. Because I went to drama school. I went to Yale school of drama. And so it was interesting. That's all right. You know, people don't mention that first and foremost, but that's actually my intro about you. And it's crazy. People don't mention it because the truth is in the business, you know, it's, it's for me, it's a personal pride thing for me and I'm so grateful that I did it so I was in undergrad at UC Berkeley I studied English and because I had grown up in the business I was like I'm not gonna I don't want to be an actor you know you know you always want to do the opposite of what your parents do and I was in a black theater kind of workshop after school and we put on plays by black artists and improv and and you're like oh I'm catching it a recruiter came like a minority recruiter came to our class and said you know you guys should consider this and I was like if I get in then I will can like let myself go down this acting path but like I didn't I knew how hard it was I knew you know especially for a black woman you know I when I told my dad that I was applying to these drama schools he literally had a tantrum like I had never he's like an old old school Philly black man like wow he was like please do not do not become an actress he's like because he was a director he knew how hard it was he's like it doesn't matter how talented you are there are no roles this is you're just you're you're just giving yourself into a world of pain so I was like, no, dad, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to go for this.

17:52And I got in. And then the great thing about that program is that by the time you graduate in three years, you've done 30 plays. Wow. It's real. It's real practical experience of being in a character on stage in small productions, little black box theaters with new playwrights to Shakespeare on the big stage. And so when you leave there, there's a confidence that I don't know that if I, if I didn't have that, that I would have been able to sustain all these years, because at least you have that when you're, when you're being rejected every day, you know? So do you think that that type of, you know, like the nature of that business being this kind of energy of rejection, do you think that you felt personally that one way to protect yourself spiritually was to dive into this kind of spiritual because you know I what I imagine is one of the first people I interviewed for this was one of my best friends Sade whose mom founded the National Black Theater in Harlem she founded it in 1968 I'm sure your parents were kind of in the same you know yeah like black bohemian 70s intellectual group so much of what kind of Sade and I talked about was this idea of when you're taking a chance at something or you're doing the hard things, where are the places you try to look for a soft landing?

19:24And so do you feel that you're like following your kind of ancestral kind of energy flow of your mom or your parents of being like, well, my mom found protection through spirituality in this way. And so do you feel that there was this kind of, you know, I watched my mom protect herself in this way. I know that when you do the hard thing, you need a soft thing somewhere. Yeah. For me, I had to make sense of it, whether it was brainwashing myself, I had to make sense of the rejection because I was such a, you know, generally people who become actors are needing, you know, like the primal thing of needing to be seen and validation and love, right?

20:07It all comes from highly, highly sensitive. That's how y 'all access all of that emotion. Exactly. And so I needed to find a way through it. It's funny because I wound up going to her because I was in love with this guy and I shouldn't have been in love with him, but I was like, I want to have him, you know, and he was kind of like in and out and in and out of my life. And I just felt like so off balance and was so in love. And I went to her for help just to get on balance with that. And then I wound up just, you know, continuing to talk to her. She, for instance, this is like one of the big kind of manifestations of that coaching.

20:47When I was up for Love and Basketball, it was a very grueling process. The director, Gina, who's a good friend of mine, Spike Lee told her, no, you need to get a basketball player who can act as opposed to an actor who can play basketball. like he had done in he got game right with ray allen and you know this is her mentor this is like you know she so basically i had done an actual staged reading last minute of the screenplay years before she got her deal and the reading was so good because i was from theater i had done like you know yeah she couldn't keep that performance out of her mind so she when she finally did get the deal a couple years later she brought me in but I was I couldn't even hold a basketball and so they're like I'm a theater kid there were two parts to the audition there was the basketball audition where you go and you would like dribble and do a you know free throw and a layup and you know do some defense and that was just like another language to me and then the acting would where you would do scenes and generally she would do it in two days and it was like I was amazing at the acting and then I would go and it was just like disaster right and so this process went on they kept bringing me back in because she couldn't get my performance out of her head and all the while I was training right and it went on and on and on and on and then it just went on too long and everybody including my agents were like please drop out you know even they were like this is abusive she doesn't want you drop out but it was Debbie, my mentor, who was like, no, you don't, what are you going to do instead?

22:30You like to work out. That's a great workout and you love to act. So just do it for that. Forget about the result. As soon as you switch to that kind of energy things, you know, come. And that's what if any manifestor would say is that they, you know, you can't manifesting, isn't saying I want this, this, this, this, and this. It's saying, I want this. I feel it belongs to me. I'll make space for it to flow towards me. It's out there. That's what, that's what I want. And the energy will bring it into me as I go towards it. It's so true. And other than that, that tight clenching energy, which is not attractive in anywhere really.

23:11Like, and I don't mean that in beauty attraction. Right. That clench, and it's so hard when you want something badly. Of course. And so that in the world tells you just hold on really hard. Yeah. Grind, grind, grind down. And, and, and in that there's no space for that ease and that kind of softness that makes people want to be around you. That feels like that relaxing energy. I became obsessed with Abraham Hicks, which is, you know, kind of, you forgot that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. During that time. And so that was kind of, that was great. I had all her, her cassette tapes. That was before, that was before, even, it was even before CDs.

23:56I can like imagine you with like a Walkman with your tape in on that, listening to everyone thinks you're listening to probably some rap song about you. Listening to Abraham. Abraham. That's very. I remember it was like a huge thing. The car that I got for many years before love and basketball, I was, I was just working. I was doing like guest stars here and there. And I had a 91 Honda Accord and we called her, I was named my cars and her name was La Honda. La Honda. And so La Honda was amazing. she got me from place to place I loved her but then it was like you know I think I had done best man and I had done like oh my god I did I just watched me Katie Lee watched that reboot or the the series it is so good I love it good when people try to bring things back it does not always no we were terrified it was perfection it was like a big treat to ourselves at the end of every every week that makes me feel so good because like you know what is it for if it doesn't make people feel good you know but anyway I was okay so first it was it was I had already done the first best man I had done a series and at this part are you over that heartbreak you were going through that no I was going through it it went on for many years it went on for many years but um I wound up I wound up being in a real relationship with him and it was you know the red flags were true but but uh red flags are always true so so I in my mind was like I should you know LaHonda LaHonda gets me from place to place but you know she's a 91 like she's a Honda Accord and I and I wanted so badly that BMW truck the x5 no no not even the yeah the BMW truck and I remember kind of having a little shame about LaHonda, which I feel bad about now.

26:00And I didn't want to hurt her feelings. And then, you know, the Abraham and then, and, and Debbie is like that. It's the same thing that we're talking about. Once I switched it and I was like, every day I got into LaHonda and I was like, I love you, LaHonda. Thank you for getting me from place to place and you're so pretty and gray, whatever it was. As soon as I surrendered into that, I was able to afford the next thing, you know, that's the energy of gratitude, you know, where your energy of gratitude, where you take, you could take anything and turn it into a gratitude party. And in doing that, you are able to kind of generate this energy of more can come to me, you know?

26:40So if you're at the sink, washing the dishes, and instead of being like, I can't believe I have to wash these fucking dishes. Yeah. Like, you know what? I'm so grateful I got to eat tonight. And like, what a joy to be able to use my hands to do this and have a break from my phone and everything else to be in my thoughts with this routine and done. Do you know? And that also gratitude brings you to your life in the present. We're so not present. And all we know that all suffering comes from not being present. So you can only be, this is power of now. You can only be suffering if you're in the future thinking about something or in the past, if you're really present, there's only peace.

27:23And so that's why gratitude is like such a, it's an active practice. Yeah, exactly. And so you're going to the, you're doing the best man. Yeah, I'm doing the, you've done love and basketball, right? No, I have not done love and basketball. I did the best man, which was so great and exciting to meet all those people who, you know, have gone on to become like friends that have become family over the last 20 years, which is so crazy. Very iconic friendships. Yeah. But what I guess I wonder is, do you believe in that thing of that when people say that there's a kind of trauma that forms when someone becomes famous or is in that intense spotlight, and then they have to get past that later?

28:13Do you know what I mean? I can see that. And the way that my, my, my trajectory was, was not ever overnight. Ever. It was, you know, very slow and steady, which I feel like is a softer, easier road. Even after I did Love and Basketball, which, you know, you would say that I'm starring in a studio movie, which now is like a, it's like a classic. It didn't, it was like, there was no overnight. I remember hiring a publicist and she was like, what are your next jobs? And I said, I don't know. And she's, she looked at me and she was stunned. She was like, I've never met an actor who starred in a studio movie who didn't have jobs lined up.

29:00And I was like, well, you know, were they this color. You know, that was the business that I was, that I grew up in, which is, you know, there were five of us and I knew all of them and there were two jobs every year. You know what I mean? And up until recently, so before streaming and Black Lives Matter and the pandemic and U2 and Time's Up, literally it's, it's, it's, Hollywood is just so late and there's still so much progress to be made. So for me, there were times even after Love and Basketball where I I didn't work for a year. So I never really, even to this day, it was a slow build. So I don't know if there was trauma.

29:36There was, you know, in that instant. Part of my spiritual seeking and finding meaning in this thing that I was so in love with acting was really seeing the impact that it has on human beings, like the deep impact. Because especially in America, this country, we don't honor the craft of acting. That's why there's so many fabulous people, you know, coming over from England. I feel like there's a different respect for the actual craft. But for me, just like what you just said, being reflected is so important to your self-esteem and your self-worth. And we know, I know that just like what I was saying from the time you are a child, that what you see and what you take in is a direct effect on who you're going to be, what limitations you have on your life, what you think is possible.

30:32if you don't see yourself imagine you know the little brown girl who I grew up in a world even just you know I don't I'm not that old where I didn't never saw myself every every Barbie every television show commercial billboard was of somebody who didn't look like me what does that do to you over time and so that's this work of of being you know telling these stories and being on screen, you know, and I think I'm not into always being morally pure as a, as a black artist. I feel like that can be a little bit of a limitation as well. Like I want us to be able to show the rainbow, the full spectrum of humanity, good and bad.

31:20And then only when you're doing that, Are you able to truly honor all the little girls and boys that look like you? And so that they can raise up with that feeling of, I don't know, it's like a feeling of worth that comes through reflection. Struggling to find something for everyone on your list? Bob's Discount Furniture can help. Shop Bob's super selection of great gifts. From deluxe dining sets with storage and nap-ready recliners with all the bells and whistles, to oh-so-soft Bob-O-Pedic sofas and beautiful budget-friendly bunk beds, all available at everyday low prices that'll keep your holiday shopping haggle and hassle-free.

31:58So, stop into your nearest store, shop online at mybobs.com, and holiday the Bob's way. Oh, my Bob! Did you ever feel a pressure to be, like, a role model? because I think sometimes this kind of role model culture is the antithesis of artist culture, which is really hard because artists really need freedom. And I think that role models, it's a very specific decision to make. And then sometimes society puts it on you based on your accomplishments. And so I imagine that in the world, you'd sit in a meeting or sit anywhere else and be like, well, it's not, you're a role model. So you've got to do it.

32:39You're, you know, you and Gabrielle union. And, and, and I feel that there's this, what I'm loving about this kind of Renaissance of you and Regina and Nia Long. And it is, is that you're also, I feel freer than ever. You know, there's this real liberatory energy around all of you. I love that. And I love, and it's, it's amazing. I feel it in your interviews. I feel it in, in, in their interviews when I hear them talking or doing, I feel it in your fashion. I feel in everything where I'm like, wow, you know, they're a real kind of this walking example of just like, I'm going to be the freest black woman you've ever seen.