In short
The Goop Podcast: Your Astrological Forecast for 2024—Plus Insights from an Enneagram Coach
Episode Overview In this special episode, Dr. Jennifer Freed, a psychological astrologer, and Enneagram coach Courtney Smith discuss the astrological themes expected in 2024 and how the Enneagram personality system can help individuals navigate challenges as opportunities for growth.
Key Speakers
- Dr. Jennifer Freed: Psychological astrologer and author
- Courtney Smith: Consultant for individuals and groups, Enneagram coach
Structure of the Episode
- Introduction of Speakers
- Brief backgrounds of Jennifer and Courtney.
- Setting the tone for a conversation blending astrology and the Enneagram.
- Astrological Predictions for 2024
- Concept of Psychological Astrology: Combination of astrology (cosmic map of challenges and gifts) and psychology (tools for alleviating suffering).
- Yearly Theme: 2024 labeled as the "Year of Rock and Roll".
- Key Astrological Events:
- Jupiter-Uranus Conjunction: Indicates growth, instability, and potential breakthroughs, especially in technology and earth-related matters.
- Focus on Fixed Signs: Aquarius, Scorpio, Taurus, Leo will experience significant wake-up calls.
- Eclipses in 2024
- Overview of four eclipses and their implications:
- Lunar Eclipses: Call for introspection and inner alignment.
- Solar Eclipses: Ego checks and alignment with personal values.
- Elemental Themes:
- Fire: Action-focused.
- Air: Communication-centric.
- Water: Emotional processing.
- Earth: Resource management.
- Important Astrological Periods
- February to March: Mars' conjunction with powerful planets, igniting action and commitment.
- Jupiter in Gemini (May 25 - June 9, 2025): Expansion in communication and opportunities for creativity.
- Using the Enneagram for Personal Growth
- Enneagram Overview: A map of nine personality types that helps individuals recognize their strengths and challenges.
- Personal Responsibility: Emphasis on accountability in one’s life and relationships.
- Personal Experiences: Jennifer and Courtney share insights from their own Enneagram types, emphasizing the importance of recognizing and balancing strengths and weaknesses.
Key Concepts & Takeaways
- Co-Creation: Emphasizing the idea that events are not just happening to us but for us; we must partner with the universe for change.
- Group Dynamics: The power of group work in fostering accountability and support for personal growth.
- Curiosity and Wonder: Encouragement to approach life with an open heart and a willingness to learn, especially in the face of uncertainty.
- Collective Evolution: The importance of recognizing that individual changes contribute to the collective healing and growth of society.
Closing Thoughts
- The conversation ends on a note of hope and excitement for 2024, urging listeners to engage deeply with their personal growth journeys while remaining connected to their communities.
- A reminder that significant relationships can be formed at any age, and that everyone can find their "sacred crew."
Links & Resources
- Courtney Smith: [CourtneySmithConsulting.com](http://CourtneySmithConsulting.com)
- Dr. Jennifer Freed: [JenniferFreed.com](http://jenniferfreed.com)
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This markdown document encapsulates the essence of the podcast episode, highlighting the key discussions, insights, and predictions for the year ahead while emphasizing the synergistic relationship between astrology and the Enneagram in personal development.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:02When you are pioneering anything or introducing new ideas to the culture, you get criticized. You do? Yeah. Did you hear about that? I didn't find the one. I found someone I respected and we made it the one. In a sort of longing kind of view of love, people understand each other as if by magic. Nothing in itself is addictive on the one hand. On the other hand, everything could be addictive if there's an emptiness in that person that needs to be filled. I now know that nobody changes until they change their energy. And when you change your energy, you change your life. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow. This is the Goop Podcast, bringing together thought leaders, culture changers, creatives, founders, and CEOs, scientists, doctors, healers, and seekers here to start conversations because simply asking questions and listening has the power to change the way we see the world.
0:58Here we go. Welcome, everybody. I'm Dr. Jennifer Fried. I'm a psychological astrologer, a social-emotional educator, and the best-selling author of A Map to Your Soul, Use Your Planets Wisely, and two must-have decks, the Astrology Oracle Deck and the Coming Cosmic Parenting Deck. My guest today is the fabulous, exceptional Courtney Smith. She is a consultant for individuals, executive teams, and women's groups. You can find everything about her at CourtneySmithConsulting.com. And I met Courtney because she's an Enneagram coach. I was in a very difficult moment in my life, a transition. and I went to Courtney and it was life-changing.
1:55You, Courtney, are particularly brilliant, loving, caring, and you hold deep space for all types of feelings and thoughts. So I'm forever grateful to you, Courtney Smith. Hmm, that's so nice to be here with you. Hi, Jennifer. So how we're going to do this, and by the way, you can find everything about me and the groups I'm doing and some unique opportunities for travel at jenniferfried.com. The way we're going to run this today is first Courtney's going to interview me and then towards the end I get to interview Courtney. So you're going to get the best of astrology and the Enneagram. Are you feeling ready then?
2:37Ready. Okay. So as Jennifer said, we're going to start with the astrological predictions for the year 2024. Let's start, Jennifer, talking about when you say psychological astrology, what do you mean by that and how that's different from traditional astrology? Traditional astrology and astrology is a map to your soul. It's your cosmic DNA. It is the idea that we come in with a cosmic lesson plan. And the chart very specifically articulates our gifts and our challenges. It's an extraordinary tool. Psychology is the practice of alleviating suffering. It helps people with specific tools to address their challenges and teaches them how to resource and tap into their gifts.
3:32So the combination of psychology and astrology is a map to your soul with the technology on how to address those challenges and gifts. And so when you look to 2024, what are the divine possibilities that you're seeing? Yes. And I wanted to say, I don't really deal with predictions. I deal with possibilities because the way I understand the spiritual realm is we are in co-creation. Things are not happening to us, they're happening for us. And 2024, I will label the year of rock and roll. So divine possibilities include this massive Jupiter-Uranus conjunction in Taurus that we haven't seen since 1941.
4:20Jupiter is the planet of expansion. Uranus is the planet of revolution and liberation. So when you put Jupiter with Uranus, you're looking at an extraordinary growth and expansiveness with a lot of instability. Now, because we're in divine partnership, I'm looking at that instability as an opportunity for change. As David Bowie said, changes. Now, what changes do we want to make? AI is going to feature hugely, in my opinion, in this year because it is. And also astrologically with Uranus and Jupiter together, there's going to be a massive breakthrough in what ordinary consciousness sees as technology.
5:08But also because it's in Taurus, it's about Earth. It's about females. It's about being grounded. So if we do this optimally, Courtney, we will partner this extraordinary brain with heart. And we will create possibilities for the earth to be renewed and for the feminine to be revered. So that's one of the divine possibilities that I'm very excited about. Also with Jupiter and Uranus together, this is the biggest invitation to find your sacred crews. Who has your shared philosophy and values and how are they going to support your highest good? And I know, Courtney, you lead groups for that very intention and so do I.
6:05So this is exciting. We're at the right place at the right time is what I hear you say. couldn't be a better time to be alive if you want to participate if you want to sit out probably not your best year when we were talking about this earlier you had mentioned something about fixed signs or cardinal signs something like that also playing into this discussion and featuring into this could you talk a little bit more about that yes well just to review for everybody. The signs, the 12 signs are in three different modes. Fixed mode, Aquarius, Taurus, Scorpio, Leo. Then we have the mutable mode, Pisces, Virgo, Gemini, Sagittarius.
6:50And we have the cardinal mode, Aries, Libra, Cancer, Capricorn. This particular year features features most energy on the fixed signs. Aquarius, Scorpio, Taurus, Leo. Anyone listening that has those in their sun, moon, or rising, it's going to be a major wake up, shout out, get your big girl or boy pants on, and make some stuff happen. Because Jupiter and Uranus are going to be conjoined in a fixed sign. But we also have Pluto going into Aquarius very soon. It will be there till September, then flip back slightly into Capricorn. But then in November, it starts its major progress for years and years and years.
7:49Pluto in Aquarius. Do you want to hear about that? I 100 % want to hear about that, especially because your moons in Aquarius. I want to really speak to anyone that has sun, moon, rising in Aquarius. Pluto in Aquarius is the detonation of the humanitarian urge or the humanitarian destruction. We have an enormous task ahead of us. Pluto represents death, rebirth, intensity, will to power. Aquarius is the sign that reflects our capacity for humanity, for friendship, for allies, etc. When Pluto goes into Aquarius, it sets the stage for us to really revisit the whole concept of being human. Is it working for us?
8:44Are we arguing for our limitations? Or can we embrace the beyond human world and learn from it. Are we going to admit once and for all, we're part of an enchanted universe. We play a significant and tiny role in this whole evolution. I knew we were friends for a reason. This is so fun to talk about. All right. So the other thing that I know, especially in your last book, the elements of fire, earth, air, and water, maybe talk a little bit about some of the themes you've just described and specifically how they connect to those four elements and how you see those playing for 2024. Okay, great. And this is when I'll bring in the eclipses.
9:28We have four eclipses this year, a lunar eclipse on March 25th and a solar eclipse on April 8th and a lunar eclipse on September 17th and another eclipse on October 2nd. Now, three of those eclipses fall into Aries and Libra. When it's a lunar eclipse, it asks us to really go inside deeply and reflect and create inner alignment. Inner alignment. Are we feeling, are we tethering to the feelings and thoughts that create peace inside our heart. Big, big ask on a lunar eclipse. It forces us inside. On a solar eclipse, it's an ego check. Are we acting in the world in alignment with our values? Are we exhibiting the courage to be who we truly are, authenticity?
10:34Now, because three of these eclipses happen in cardinal signs, which are also Libra is air, Aries is fire. They're asking us to be initiatory, make the change. But specifically, the air signs, Libra, Aquarius, Gemini, will have to be thinking a lot about their communication and the ideas they put forward in the world. The fire signs, Sagittarius, Aries, and Leo will have to be thinking about the right action. What actions are we taking? And are they impulsive or are they mature? The water signs, Cancer, Pisces, and Scorpio will have to be metabolizing feelings. How deeply can and we compost difficult feelings into positive, renewed mental attitudes.
11:35And finally, Earth, Taurus, Capricorn, and Virgo are all going to be about resources. How are we harvesting our resources? How are we maintaining our resources? How are we sharing our resources? Now, one of the eclipses differs on September 17th because it's in Pisces, a water sign and mutable. So right about September 17th, when Pluto goes back to Capricorn and we have this eclipse in Pisces, we're all going to have one final review of Pluto and Capricorn, which is ultimately the death to patriarchy. I know that's heavy. It may take years to see the fruition of it, but we've been living in an entire era of power and will dominating at the expense of the little people, the ordinary people, the hardworking people.
12:38With this Pluto and Capricorn shift into Aquarius, Courtney, we have the possibility of seeing once and for all there is enough. There is enough. And if everyone takes accountability and responsibility for we have enough, we can give more or we can receive more, we have an extraordinary paradigm shift. For me, when you say that, what I also hear is the shift from scarcity to we have enough. Part of that is about reconceiving your relationship to fear. Because you can't approach we have enough unless you've sort of gone deep into, and this is, I guess, what you're talking about with the metabolism of feelings.
13:29I might feel scared, but I don't have to act from that place. Yes. And like I went to you when I was having a really hard time, my biggest call to people is if you're not in a positive mindset and you're still in trauma, you need more allies and you need help. And we are at a time in history where we all have access to more support, whether we have funds or not. But those of us with privilege, and I do, and I got to come see you, we need to remember that with privilege comes incredible responsibility. So we have to be the ones to shift from fear to abundance. because if we know we're living in abundance, we can share more of that with others and encourage and inspire them.
14:19So I couldn't agree with you more. Our biggest responsibility in 2024 is to say we're ready, we're willing, and we've got what it takes. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy, just use Indeed. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other job sites. Indeed Sponsored Jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster. And it makes a huge difference. According to Indeed data, Sponsored Jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45 % more applications than non-sponsored jobs.
14:58Plus, with Indeed Sponsored Jobs, there are no monthly subscriptions, no long-term contracts, and you only pay for results. And listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash listen. Just go to Indeed.com slash listen right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash listen. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. So you talked a lot about the eclipse in September, but you've also spoken to me about something happening big in March and February. gangbusters is what you called it.
15:37Tell me more about that. Well, it's exciting because we're in Mercury retrograde till January 2nd, and then Mercury goes direct. And so think of this 2024 as the champagne cork popping. Boom, we're ready to go. Let's go. So we're ready to go. We're out the gate. But come February 17th, we have this series of Mars in conjunction with heavy hitting planets. First, Mars will be with Pluto, then Mars will be with Jupiter, then Mars with Uranus till March 18th. So Mars is the planet of action. It's a planet of excellence. It's the planet of aggression. But when it hits these other planets, this is when we all have to decide what are we truly committed to, because we're going to feel a fire in our belly, how do we want to spend that fire?
16:37Do we want to be on social media yelling at each other? I've seen a lot of that lately. Do we want to be in the arena saying, this is my commitment to peace on earth, to getting along with everybody. I will do my part. So with that Mars energy, it's a lot to handle. I won't minimize that. It's like sitting on a powder keg But if you use the planets wisely, this can be a time of accelerated growth and maximum effort toward the things we cherish and love. In order to get ready for February and March, I'm going to appeal to everybody to do your emotional cleansing. If you can get a session with Courtney, do that.
17:27I'm just saying because I know for me, I can be a hothead. I can go to anger instead of vulnerability. I think some people relate to that. But I've noticed lately, every time I go to vulnerability instead of my default mode, which is lash out, people are really much more drawn to me. my granddaughter last night I was crying admitting some fault I had made and I was weeping and she ran over to me and she calls me Gigi and she just held me she was it's okay Gigi it's okay and I said to her and it's okay to be sorry and to be sad and that's a picture I want to say to people it's okay to be sorry and to be sad instead of defensive well I mean we've talked about fear but this idea of metabolizing sadness.
18:14I've been on a crusade with me personally. The more work that I do, the more I cry actually. And I think it is a sign of waking up the more tears you're willing to shed. And so I love the idea of re-randing crying as it is maybe about being sorrowful, it is about feeling regret, but it is also a sign that you're awake and that you are engaged and participating and being moved by what's happening in this world right now. Yes. And I remember a long time ago, I read a passage from a book. I don't recall, but it really affected me. It said, if you were truly awakened, you'd always have a deep, sad sorrow in your heart that's built on compassion and mercy.
19:02And there's nothing wrong. Both at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So we talked about February and March. We talked about September. There feels like there's all of the planets that you're describing seem, well, none of them seem small. They all seem big in their force size and power. What about Jupiter? You spoke about it being in Taurus, but there was also something about being in Gemini you told me about at one point. Yes. All you people that are writing, publishing or speaking have a big party on May 25th as Jupiter enters Gemini and it enters Gemini until June 9th, 2025. So when Jupiter goes into Gemini, Jupiter again is about expansion and opportunity and luck and sometimes decadence and hedonism.
19:57But in Gemini ruled by Mercury and air sign, it's about communication. It's about writing. It's about publishing. So at the same time, we're having this huge forceful growth year. We also can have this outpouring of skillful contributions to the mind and to the literary and to the scholarly and to the everyday conversation. So all of you that have projects you want to see published or you want to have extraordinary gatherings of communication, Jupiter and Gemini is the time. So I'm looking forward to Jupiter and Gemini because it will be an airlift from all this kind of Earth energy and perspective taking.
20:46One of the biggest signs for me of maturity is how many perspectives can you take and how much empathy can you have? When you're listening to somebody you're offended by, how objective can you be instead of reactive? Jupiter and Gemini, there'll be a plethora of educational opportunities to learn about skillful communication. Well, I love that because we're talking about all of these possibilities and what you've said is the possibilities only come to fruition if we do our work. And to hear that there, what I hear you saying is some of the tools for communication, the skills that we all might need in order to do that work, they already are out there and there's going to be even more opportunity this year for those tools to become available.
21:41Yes. And I think people like you that are really into the competencies of communication and the styles of communication are going to have a heyday. The downside of Jupiter and Gemini is going to be because we always have the skillful and the unskillful, reckless, irresponsible, careless, flaky communication. so again because we're in partnership with the divine everybody has to start choosing what words you're going to use what ideas you'll pay attention to because we have this saying where your mind is is where your energy goes so if your mindedness is on negativity you will really go down that rabbit hole.
22:37So start now in January, building a strong tethering to mental ideas that leave you feeling grateful and positive. That will help with Jupiter and Gemini. Well, so with that tip, you also spoke about my chart, which I'm a Scorpio sun, a Libra rising, and an Aquarius moon. Do you have special tips for me or how, as people are hearing these big ideas, and then of course, as they should be saying, well, what about me? What does this mean for me? Use me as an example or talk a little bit about how people can apply some of this to their personal chart. Yes. So for beginners, and some of you are very advanced listening to this, so bear with me.
23:21The sun is your basic identity, that I am. The moon is I need your non-negotiable needs and your rising is your social strategy. So if we just take Courtney, son of Scorpio, I am a deep transformative human. Moon and Aquarius, I need equality, equity, openness, willingness, and inclusivity. And Libra rising strategy is harmony, cooperation, and looking great. She's really beautiful. You can't see her, but I'm telling you. Anyway, so when you take those three, sun, moon, and rising, you have a good template if you just work with that on what's possible in 2024. Well, I've spoken to the fixed signs and you've got Scorpio, which is fixed sun and Aquarius, fixed moon.
24:13So for you, this is one of those exceptional, phenomenal years of the sky's the limit. You can go with Scorpio sun more deeply into loosening all your identities to become kind of one big transformer with your identity, with your moon in Aquarius, you can find so many people in your sacred crew. Your sacred crew with an Aquarius moon can be literally millions of people. Wouldn't that be funny? This happens, people, I called it. But it could be millions of people because Aquarius moon, the need is I am one with humanity. I'm not separate. I'm not over. I'm not under. We are in this together. So your big sacred crew could just envelop everything.
25:11And then Libra rising, something I deeply appreciate about you, which is a cardinal sign, and it will be part of these eclipses, is the most skillful way you could work with Libra this year is how I look is none of my business, although it's an art form for you, but how I see people, how I deeply see people is my beauty. That would be my reading for you this year. How do you like it? Pretty good. Thank you. What I love about it, and then we can turn it over to talk about how this all works with the Enneagram, but what I love about what you just said is it feels like it's such a big year. It could be really heavy.
25:54It could be a lot for people to be listening to what you've described and to feel a sense of weightiness about it. And yet when I hear you describe my chart, there's so much lightness and possibility, actually, in all of that change. And I'm guessing that there's some particularities about my chart, but that would be true for anyone, actually, that there is in the midst of heaviness and big change, also lightness and opportunity. Yes, and you know my key word is joy, and so I look at all of these changes as a personal invitation, a collective invitation to be in rapture and bliss about our human capacities growing and changing at lightning speed.
26:41My personal dream is that the soul of each human being gets as much investment, attention, and energy as we give to technology? What if each of our souls really had the attention they deserve? Then we can be way bigger than artificial intelligence. We can be divine intelligence embodied. That's what I wish. So how does this all work with the Enneagram? Tell me about that. Okay, well, so I'm going to do just a quick background on what the Enneagram is. Like astrology, the Enneagram is a very complex system. So we could talk for hours and hours and there are thousands of books written about it, but it is a spiritual and psychological tool like astrology.
27:30And like astrology, its roots go way, way back thousands of years. The word Enneagram is from the Greek. Ennea means nine and gram means map. And so the Enneagram traditionally has been this symbol, which is a circle with a bunch of lines inside of it. And you could say that it is nine maps of what it means to be a human being. And so these issues that you've been describing that are going to be emerging this year in 2024, from an Enneagram perspective, are perennial issues about what it means to be human. And we as a species have been thinking and wondering about that issue and all of the different paradoxes and unique capabilities of humanity for a long, long time.
28:21And a lot of that wisdom is captured and synthesized in the system of the Enneagram. Now, even though it's a tool that's been around for thousands of years, this idea of having nine different points or nine different personality types that's a recent way the enneagram has evolved in the last 50 years and just like astrology has all sorts of complexity about sun rising moon etc you could talk for a long long time about the nine different points or the nine different personality types that the enneagram uses at a high level to talk about the fundamental challenges of being human but without getting into the weeds of the nine different types, the Enneagram, like astrology, is both a psychological and a spiritual tool.
29:11And what we mean by that is very similar to what you said. Psychology is about the study and the working with the gifts and limitations each of us has as a human being. What do we do well? What do we do less well? Where do we shine? Where do we get in our own way. And the Enneagram has a lot to say very, very practically about what does that mean in work? What does that mean in parenting? What does that mean in my one-on-one relationships? But the Enneagram is also different and like astrology in that that's not the end of the conversation for people who want to go further. The idea is that when I begin to look at what my gifts and challenges are at a personality level, and I begin to really work with them, something else emerges.
30:06And I begin to see that these traits that I thought were part of who I am are actually just a set of tools. There's something else inside me that's bigger than whether I'm extroverted or introverted, or whether, you know, I'm agreeable or tend toward more negative emotion. And this would be the spiritual component of the Enneagram. What happens, what emerges from me as a human being when I no longer take myself to be these fixed set of traits, this personality that has emerged in order for me to navigate the world. And so it's a study of both. What does it mean to be a person of spirit, but also what does it mean to to be a person of this world, navigating their real challenges of being a human being?
30:58Well, I'm gonna riff with you a bit on this to bring it home to people. So you're a number six, I'm a number seven. I think it would be very helpful to use either one of us as an example and talk about like three fixed traits that we tend to have and how we can upscale them. Because I think then people can start to get very curious about how you can make this metamorphosis if you work individually on your Enneagram. Okay, great. So I'm going to do both of us very quickly because we're sort of in some ways complementary, just like any of the types, complementary, but also mirror opposites. So the six we call the loyal skeptic, that's who I am, and we call the seven the enthusiast, And that is your point on the Enneagram.
31:46Both of us have developed strategies around dealing with the fundamental unknown emergence of reality, meaning all human beings are facing every day. I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know what's going to come next. What do I do about that? and the loyal skeptic takes a very pragmatic perspective, which is I'm going to plan and anticipate anything that could go wrong. And that way, even though I don't know what's coming down the pike, I'm going to be ready for if the shit hits the fan. The seven, on the other hand, the enthusiast says, I don't know what's coming down the pike, but it's going to be amazing.
32:31I know that it could be like, we don't know, but that's what makes it great. Anything could happen. And so the seven takes a very different strategy to the fact that so much of life is unknown, which is they focus on the possibility and the upside. And so you see two very different strategies. One that focuses on the downside and planning and anticipating the negative. The other focusing on the positive and the opportunity for possibility. but both of them are in reaction to this fundamental part of being human, which is, I don't know what tomorrow is going to bring. And both of those strategies have a gift and a shadow that when they work together, you would get a perfect embrace of reality.
33:16You'd get the positivity of the seven saying, let's lean into what could happen and what could be amazing. And you would get the pragmatism of the six, which is let's be ready for anything though, so that if something bad does happen, we're not taken aback. But those two types in isolation, if they're not doing their work, instead what happens is the six becomes overly negative, overly focused on only the downside. And the seven puts on blinders to parts of reality that might be red flags and instead ignores them and only focuses on sort of pie in the sky thinking. So you get an example with the two of us and that very specific, here's what it means to be human.
Read the full transcript
34:00We all have to figure out a strategy for dealing with decision making in the face of the unknown. You get some that are focused on positivity, some that are overly focused on negativity, neither right nor wrong, just both over indexed. And so the goal for each of us is to balance out that perspective. Excellent. And so you can use me, if you want, as how do you keep your clients responsible and accountable? You and I have talked a lot about this. I'm mostly at the place in my life, a little bit hard-ass, but I'm going to say it. If you don't take 100 % accountability for who you are, where you are, and how it's going for you, you probably don't want to work with me.
34:41And that doesn't mean I won't have a lot of sympathy or love for your pain about where you are. but pointing figures is not my business and it certainly isn't yours. So tell me how you keep clients responsible. Well, so I can talk about my strategy, but also what I heard in 2024 is that this is the year for this, right? That we need to be going internally. And in the past, when people, sometimes when people think about going internal, there can be this idea of sort of navel gazing or this sort of absorption in emotions and storytelling and looking at the past. And all of that has an important role in the metabolizing and the moving forward.
35:25But if that's all we do without taking responsibility for, I know this happened to me. I know this is my Enneagram type. I know this is my astrological configuration. But at the end of the day, the person who is responsible for the path my life charts is me. And if I don't hold on to that as kind of a fundamental foundational way that I look at the world, all of this psychological excavation that we're talking about, it doesn't actually allow us to move forward. And that's what we're wanting, is we're wanting psychological work to actually show up in real life. How do I act differently with my spouse because of the work that I've done, either with my therapist or my coach or my women's group?
36:17How do I act differently with my children as they're all screaming and we're running 20 minutes late to school? I'm not going to do that perfectly, but I'd like to see over time small changes in the day to day way that I show up. And so one of the ways that I ask and encourage my clients to take responsibility is you and I are talking at like very big abstract levels. but all of this really matters and really sort of comes into sharp relief when you take very specific examples of what's going on in your life. Walk me through what, you know, the fight that you just got into. Walk me through what you look like at 9 p.m., you know, after you're exhausted from a long days of work, what are your bad habits?
37:08And then let's take responsibility for how we're showing up so that then we can be intentional about the choices that we make. This is for me, part of the reason why I'm such a big fan of this concept of responsibility and accountability is in my own work and evolution, this was a huge shift for me five or six years ago. This concept of life is not happening to me, it's happening for me and by me. I am in active partnership with the world, creating my own circumstances. Once I really grokked that as it was literally a change in consciousness. And the world looks very, very, very different. You cannot control all the things that are happening in this world, but you are always in control of how you choose to make meaning of them.
38:05And that's what I mean by responsibility and accountability is I make meaning of my life. And when you and I were working together, that retelling of meaning, that retelling of story making is one of the most powerful things we can do as a human being. And it really does, as you said, mind changes energy. It changes the way we make our way through the world when we change the way we're holding it. I'm going to give a great example of this because it's making fun of myself and showing your compassionate confrontation. So I was working with Courtney on my transitioning from a board and I was having a lot of grumbles and resentments about certain people.
38:49And I was talking to Courtney for months about this. And then at some point I said to her, and some of these people just whine on and on and on about the same things. And she looked at me with so much love in her eyes. And she said, like, you have been for six months. And I just laughed so hard. And honestly, it was the biggest wake up moment of my life, because I realized in that moment with your love, we need each other people, we need reliable mirrors. With your love, you had been patient listening to me complaining, and I did need to complain. So sometimes we do. But in that moment, you knew enough is enough.
39:29And you called me out on it. And from that moment on, I really didn't complain anymore. And I saw the whole thing. I'm complaining about them complaining. Who's complaining? But it changed me. And I really stopped having that conversation. And I also noticed, by the way, the contagion effect of positive learning. I also stopped wanting to talk to people that were complaining because it wasn't helping them. To a point, we need to vent. A vent is a great thing toward what end, not to just recycle the dust. So anyway, next question for you, and you and I agree on this wholeheartedly, but you do a lot of groups.
40:17In fact, hopefully one of you can get into Courtney's group on Zoom. Why are groups so important in this period of history, and why do they resonate so strongly for you? Okay, I love group work. You and I share this in common, and we've done workshops together and there is magic that happens in a in a room or on a shared zoom screen when people are working together. I think you can tell that I'm both pragmatic but that also quite aspirational and big in my thinking. At the most basic level I love group work because it creates accountability at an Enneagram type level. The easiest way to bust someone on one of their stories is to be in group with six other people who see the same set of facts and make meaning of it very, very differently.
41:08That sort of does my work for me as a coach. When you sort of see, wow, I've been using a very distorted lens to see this set of facts and five other people in this room see it very, very differently. And then, you know, as a public health professional in one of my former lives on the East Coast, if you had someone who was overweight, or if you had someone who was a smoker and you were asking them to stop, you would never ask them to do that without looking at the context, their social setting, the individuals they surrounded themselves with, and ask, are they overweight? Do they smoke? What is your environment?
41:52And so when we talk about personal growth and transformation, there is this real paradox of it always starts with an individual, but individuals don't exist in isolation. They sit in a context of a community and a group of people. And that group of people, if they're holding and supporting change, it's much more likely that the individual is going to make progress. And so I love group work at a very pragmatic level because it's enabling all of that at a bigger level there's a lot of things in this sort of personal growth journey that each of us are on that are really really hard and it takes time for us to see ourselves accurately to forgive ourselves to be able to tell a story of our past like some trauma that's happened to us with humor and when we're in group oftentimes people in that room can model for us the way i would hope each of us can hold ourselves which is with empathy and compassion and i i see you i see you i see exactly what you've been up to and I love you for it.
43:14And so as people are making that journey individually, the group really stands for that inner witness who can see and love unconditionally. The group brings that spirit to people as they're working through it. I think this issue of what does it mean to be an individual and also part of something, this is a human question that we have struggled with for thousands and thousands of years. And you're talking about 2024 as sort of, this is a really big year for us to be able to hold and embrace that paradox that I am myself, I am responsible for this configuration of energy moving forward. I am an individual with sovereignty over this.
44:07And at the same time, I'm a part of a bigger project. I'm a part of something much greater than myself. And you and I can talk about that at an intellectual level. But when you're working in group, you get an embodied experience of I am both part of something bigger and I am my own self at the same time. And that I think when we as a species are able to all hold that paradox, that's when we're going to see real change because we get the best of individualism, which is responsibility, but we get the best of collectivism, which is we all have a shared purpose here. And when those two things come together, that's when I think really big change could happen for our planet.
44:56Yes. And I want to add that I really believe love as a verb is the quality of attention we give each other. And when we're in group, exponential attention and love occurs in the best of circumstances. And in my life, I can speak clearly, I've just gone through a major crisis with my partner having a health issue that's resolving. But my sacred crew. If I didn't have them, I would be scraping the floor right now. It's only through this activated love in community that we can tolerate both the worst things that happen to us, but also like you and I celebrate so strongly the wins, the fulfillments, those beautiful moments with you and your daughter who's a four who said, I realize I now can be happy.
45:54I mean, I can't stop thinking about that. But that's the bonding of community is we carry each other's stories as sacraments. And that's why I love working in group. And I think the other piece of the group part that you could comment on, that you did say some about, is when we only have one perspective that we keep receiving, either negative or positive, we can't really flower. There's only certain parts of us that are lit up. What would you say about that? Well, I think this is back to the question of psychology and spirit or personality and soul. I would sort of define soul. My soul is online when I have a full range of ways of movement in this world.
46:49When I am clearly seeing presence, I'm clearly seeing reality, and I truly respond with what is required. The challenge is that as human beings, we all acquire this set of tools that we call a personality that we have learned through real life experience work for us. And so the more we use a specific tool, the more we begin to go to that tool over and over and over again. And that's not a bad thing. It's an inevitable thing about being human. But when we start to overuse a tool, it means that we start occluding, not being able to see clearly what reality is, and therefore we're no longer able to be fully responsive.
47:45and one of i love the story of the zen garden from japan japan is has a very sort of type six culture so it's very close to me because that's my type and the concept of a zen garden is that it doesn't matter where you're standing in the garden you can never see the whole thing by design every spot in the garden there's a piece of the garden that cannot be seen And so the idea of being in group is I have my own perspective that is very valuable and needed, but I also need you, your perspective, your learning, your journey, your trajectory. I need to bounce off of that in order to see the full set of reality so that I can be more intentional about my choices.
48:37And what I call that in my book, A Map to Your Soul, is a fully expressed life. The people I know that are genuinely fulfilled and happy are firing on all cylinders and exploring new ones. So as you said, if we're only in the one spot in the garden and we make our rut there, it could be a beautiful rut and we get very comfortable. But discomfort is growth. So this is the year, bringing it back to this, we're all going to be a little more uncomfortable and remind ourselves it's so we get more pleasure. The end result is more pleasure, not less. But we have to be willing to get out of our positions and into curiosity.
49:27Can you say a little bit about that before we close? Why it's so fundamental to do the work you do with a sense of absolute wonder and curiosity? Well, you were so sweet to bring up like a very specific example of when I called you out on something that was happening in your life. One of the reasons I love working in group and one of the reasons I love working with individuals like you is I am actively in growth and evolution as a coach just as much as my clients or my group is. I'm on the same journey with everyone else that I'm working with and you really see that in group work because I get to participate and be both the facilitator and a model for some of the exercises and some of the explorations that we're doing in order for me to be an effective facilitator I have to have an idea of where I want to take the group and or I have to have an idea of where I want to take a client.
50:32And at the same time, I have to be open to something new could emerge. Some part of reality could suddenly appear, you could make a comment, I could learn something, I could see something in a different way. And the whole thing needs to be able to shift, you know, just like that, if that's what's required. So from my perspective, we talked about me being a type six and you being a type seven, you know, one of my like beautiful learnings being in cooperation and conversation with you is your unbridled, unflagging positivity in the face of some of the darkest, you know, emotions that any human could face.
51:19You know, as a type six, you would, our tendency would be to get kind of mired in feeling scared or feeling angry or feeling sad. And so for me to be a coach of an individual who went, was able to access deep sadness, and then at the same 30 seconds later, be able to laugh or say, oh, but this is going to be great. And to believe that genuinely, that was a huge gift for me to be able to see that positivity and negativity can sit right next to one another. They're not one or the other. You can have both at the exact same time. And if I weren't in a place as a coach to be open, to see what I could learn from you, just as I'm coaching you, I would miss that moment and I would be a less effective coach, but I'd also be a less effective person.
52:13So that's what overall, not just with my clients, but as a mom and as a wife, as a friend. And so that to me is what curiosity provides is if I'm always in a position of what am I going to learn here? That is what shifts us to positivity. There is always something that can be gained. There is always something new that can come from this if I'm willing to be curious and open to what that could be. I want to tag on to that before we close, because you and I share one of the deepest values around trainers and educators, which is if they're not willing to learn with you, they probably need you to stay in a very undeveloped place.
53:08what i've suffered and maybe you have but with other trainers or teachers is their need to be right exclusive to all else wouldn't necessitate the people around them had to be less than or wrong and what i think about 2024 to go back to the astrology with pluto and aquarius is it's the end of the demagogues. We actually need to all believe that the teacher philosopher trainer is within and we access each other to grow those undeveloped parts. But there is no hierarchy of spiritual value. What do you say to that? I mean, I say here, here. I know I do think that this idea of you know the guru or the you know exalted teacher for me this idea that you know everyone's a human being everyone as we said has their place in the zen garden everyone no matter how much work you do is still reactive and caught in their own shit sometimes.
54:21And I, for one, would rather teach and coach and guide admitting that and leading from that place of vulnerability, because it's there all along, whether you say it is or not. It's just whether you're going to be honest about, I've got something to offer here. And I'm also making mistakes every day just like you and I can model those mistakes and the vulnerability and the way I hold myself when I screw up and that's equally part of what I can offer you as a teacher and at the same time most of the teaching and guiding that I do which I think is very similar to you is it's like I'm helping someone remember and pull out from within themselves something they actually already knew and they didn't realize they knew it.
55:16And so my goal when I'm working with people is I don't actually want to see you for 10 years. I want to see you for a limited, very limited period of time because I want you to feel resourced that the things that we've worked on actually sit inside you. And so you can take them with you and rely on yourself as your own teacher and guide. That's my goal when I'm working with someone. So that brings us to the end of the most important beginning episode. And I want to thank the whole team at Goop for inviting us to share with you today because I am enormously grateful to GP and the Goop team and to Courtney Smith.
56:02And remember, you can find all her great things at Courtney smithconsulting.com. You can find me at jenniferfried.com. And I want to thank Phil, the engineer, because lots of times we forget to thank the people that make everything really work. So thank you, Phil. Anything else, Courtney, you want to say for closure? No, I love that you ended acknowledging your sacred crew, all of the people that worked behind the scenes in front of the scenes to make this hour come together. I think that for those of you who've been listening, Jennifer has been so supportive of me. I love her and I love being friends with her.
56:44And I think you can hear when you have two people who are supporting one another, what's possible. You can have a lot of fun. You can have a lot of really great conversation and you can be real about what's to come, but also excited. And I think that's what we want to leave you with is seeing 2024 clearly, but, and at that same time in that clarity, being hopeful about what we can do. Yes. And finally, this is very important. I'm 65 years old. Courtney is a lot younger. One of my biggest lessons is this. You can meet the most important people in your life at any age. So if you haven't met them yet, keep looking.
57:27That's 2024. Anything can happen. So bless everyone's path of awakening. Okay, over and out.
57:39Thanks for tuning in. This has been a presentation of Cadence 13 Studios. I hope you'll listen, follow, rate, and review all of our episodes, which are available for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts.
From the publisher
We’re kicking off 2024 with something a little different: a conversation between Enneagram coach Courtney Smith and psychological astrologer Jennifer Freed, PhD. In this episode, the two friends join each other to talk about the astrological themes to expect in the new year and how the Enneagram system of personality types can be used to help us see challenges as opportunities for growth.
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