The Neurodivergent Christmas Survival Guide: Dr Alison Lennox on Family, Burnout & Boundaries

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0:48Alison, welcome back. Your episodes that we did absolutely smashed it. I'm really grateful for all of your time and wisdom because talking about misdiagnosis, BPD, etc. really did strike a chord. And to anyone listening, go back, check out Alison's previous episodes because they really struck a chord. That's called here. I mean, it felt like a bit of a truth bomb, but actually that just is the truth, isn't it? These are tricky subjects and we do need to talk about them because they affect a lot of our listeners. They do. But today is about the festive period. And I guess we're going to get into the good bits, the difficult bits.

1:31I want people to have a great time. Obviously, it's a big, high pressure time. Family, getting together, traditions, etc. And it's a lot of sensory stuff. It's a lot of eating, drinking, presents, etc. And so I would just love to get your perspective and for people to hear some of the tips, helpful, practical advice and everything in between, I guess. Well, I think there's all those things to deal with. On top of that, there's this kind of sense that is the season to be jolly. It's this kind of sense that it should be merry, that not only do you have to navigate all of these seasonal quirks, but on top of that, you have to somehow really enjoy doing so.

2:18Yeah. We've got to have fun. Oh, yeah. Got to see lots of people, got to have fun, got to have a nice time. Yeah, it's a lot. What are your Christmases this time of year? What's it like for you? I mean, I think because I'm a doctor, Christmas has not been quite as big for me as for other people because quite often you end up working, which is kind of like a lovely break. It's like a get out of jail free. Sorry, I'm on call. I'm at hospital. I'm eating a soggy roast dinner with some people in the canteen and then I'll go back and take 30 bloods from people and help in a penasectomy, that kind of stuff.

2:51So you kind of have that thing where it doesn't build in the same way. And I don't have children, so I don't tend to prioritise sort of Christmas leave and things in the same way. I often offer to cover it for people. Yes, okay. Which, it does sound really kind, doesn't it? But it's also sometimes a way for me to take a bit of a step back and just compartmentalise how much I feel willing to do. Yeah. But my actual family are very sort of straightforward about Christmas and all have very clear views. expectations are really low so in that way I'm quite lucky. And was that how it was for you growing up?

3:21Were expectations low? My parents did a great job of making Christmas really fun when we were kids and I think it might have got to an age where sort of overnight it suddenly the tap turned off with sort of the magic I suppose. Yes. Which was a huge relief to me. Do you relate to that at all? I do. I guess the difference with having children is that throws a whole new lens on it and sort of in some ways is amazing because it reignites some of that magic, whether it's carols or it's presents or it's just holidays and not having school or it's Christmas trees. There is some of that you get to sort of see it again and you get to see it through their eyes and there's an advent calendar and there's a candle and that is a nice bit.

4:08I think I can struggle because I'm not at work. and so the lack of routine there's no routine yeah and i do know that certainly over the last few years over that christmas break sort of christmas eve onwards we get into another routine and i can get quite into that routine of like okay we're we're off everything's quite relaxed we keep expectations really low we're not a big family gathering kind of thing it's usually pretty small it's quite intimate the kids don't have to eat things at the table you know it's it's pretty laid back and that can be quite nice to get into that sort of routine it's then the transition of okay then back to work they're the only difficult things I find are the transitions what do you hear from your clients and just your your background around why this time of year is so difficult I think it's difficult because you can't avoid it.

5:10You can't avoid the fact that there are these dates in the year that have a valency for a lot of people. Our entire society starts changing around it. The radio changes, the shops change, the trees change. You can't successfully opt out in the way that I think a lot of people might if they thought that something might not necessarily feel so good for them. what's difficult is that I think people have quite a sense of pressure on themselves that they have to not only navigate it but to perform for others at a way that might be actually really really demanding and you know lots of people struggle at this time of year neurodivergent or not but I think when we're talking about people who are already operating with potentially quite high degree of masking for instance difficulties with managing sort of everyday social interactions with people and things like this, then suddenly you're kind of playing the game on a much harder level.

6:02Yeah. The people I have in mind right now, children, adults who've been assessed this year and who've potentially had quite a big self-awareness, identity kind of discovery and are perhaps wanting to share that with their family. I'm really thinking about those people because this is a first Christmas of like, hey, I'm ADHD or autistic or dyslexic or whatever it is, how can people approach that? I think it's important to prepare to navigate that because it's very likely to come up, isn't it, if people know. And I think it might be that you've received a diagnosis or that maybe your child has received a diagnosis or that you've perhaps shared with one family member, your child is now on a waiting list and that kind of seeps out a bit.

6:48And I think the thing about Christmas is it's the time where people are together. So it's often a time where you have the reunion and the catch-up is sort of socially expected. We have round robins, don't we? How many people write a round robin saying, Joshua has been accepted onto the NHS CAMHS autism assessment list? That's not what we do, but yet there is a kind of reconnection that happens around then. In terms of disclosure, I think the most important advice I would have from my experience is actually that there's no right other people have to have that information or to interrogate it. That actually, disclosure is actually really personal, what you disclose about yourself or what you disclose about, say, your children or your partner.

7:24And I think that when people do disclose, it can be quite surprising. A lot of people tell me that they don't really get the response that they were anticipating or hoping for. But I think it's really important to sort of take control over what you want to share and why. And most of all, to understand that it is not your job. You don't have to explain to people. You don't have to educate people. If you've been diagnosed with ADHD this year, you don't have to summarize your diagnostic report and also justify why your ADHD is different to that girl from Celebrity Traitors. Yes. Do you know what I mean?

7:57Yes. You said something there that in terms of the reaction that people have when you share or disclose or explain, hey, I've been assessed for this and I got a diagnosis of X, Y, Z. I haven't come across anybody that's had a great reaction. Like, I think it flits between disbelief. You can't be. hey really you don't look autistic or whatever the reaction is so either it's quite dismissive or I've had people kind of almost sort of not listen it's like we're on to the next bit of the conversation I've had people laugh right not because it's funny but because they actually think I'm not being serious they actually think it's an adjective but also I think the opposite is true were actually, if you think about it from somebody else's perspective, if you were to say that you had a serious illness, they would find it very hard to know what response was going to be right for you.

8:57Yes. I don't think it's different to that. And I think one of the things about Christmastime, I would suggest that sort of if that sort of thing comes up for somebody, then I would be thinking, well, if somebody mentions it to you, it's really great that they've actually shown the interest first off and started the conversation. But it might not be in the living room before the meal that you want to have the conversation with other people around and a lot of noise and things, it might be kind of acknowledging to them that it really means a lot that they've asked about it. That really is so kind.

9:26And might we chat about it a little bit later on our own? Yeah, if there's just a bit of curiosity. That's big. That's a huge step forward. It seems strange to kind of say have low expectations of sharing with people, but I feel like that's a safe approach approach to not expect it to be the topic of discussion around the table and for people not necessarily to get it or feel comfortable talking about it but I think sometimes it comes up or sort of more around the table if for instance you're sort of saying to a family member oh my son doesn't eat that we're going to give him this this year yes well why yes you know and that's how sometimes these things can sort of come in to a certain extent you can put some warning shots in first You can kind of pre-plan some of these things so that they're not in the room or that they're managed over a message or something ahead of time, just as a heads up.

10:20This is something we need to do for this person's needs. Yeah. It's little things like I know it's really important to me if family come over. It's really important that I tell them when they're leaving. You know the exit. Yeah, as much as I'd love a household that was like, open door, come, stay as long as you want, leave whenever you want. It's all super relaxed. I can't operate like that. Only recently, I will tell my family and contract with my family when they're going to leave. yeah like partly because why wouldn't they want to know when they're leaving either but also having that boundary and not in a kind of here's a spreadsheet with the order of the day but just to like okay so are you going to arrive in the morning or are you going to arrive in the afternoon and stay two nights and then you're leaving that next morning i don't know that just feels like that's clear for everybody the best advice a family therapist ever taught me was that she said that at times like this, to have your relatives come and visit within your parameters, don't invite them to stay in your home.

11:29They can get a hotel around the corner, they can get the train, but don't invite them to live with you while you're doing the celebrating, if at all possible. Yes. How else can people prepare themselves for family? That sounds like a really terrible thing to say, But how can ND people or people with ND kids, like how can we prepare for family situations? I think it sort of depends which situations you mean, because there are so many sort of family parts to a Christmas. And actually, just talking to some people today about their Christmas plans, immediately there's this kind of sense of guilt about who do you choose, who don't you choose, who's in, who's out, who's on the present list, who's not, how much, how do I decorate, don't I decorate?

12:16There's so many different pieces here, and I think it's different for each of them. I think the important thing is, if you think about Christmas, some people love it. I don't know many of those people, but some people love it, don't they? They do. And it's lovely to make it special for children. Some people really suffer at Christmas, and some people have really traumatic memories of these times of year in their life. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And it's a reminder of some really dark times. so I think sometimes we sort of assume don't we that when you find it hard that everybody else is loving it we kind of increase a sense of isolation maybe between ourselves and other family members or other people but I think it's really about doing things your way yeah that actually if you think about it whether you're a divergent or not there's probably some little things you do like about that sort of season that kind of festive period it's like for me I like it when you look at a Christmas tree and you kind of squint your eyes it's kind of visual stimmy thing but i really like that i quite like listening to carols and i like i like handwriting so i really like writing people christmas cards but if i could just squint my eyes at the lights write the christmas cards and call it a day there i'd be absolutely happy yeah but it's different sort of for different people and i think that actually there are little things that you like there are little sort of moments of joy in it that you can find in the same way that you can find those little moments of kind of neurodivergent joy all season round so it's really important to kind of keep sort of looking for them and equally your family will have things that they particularly like.

13:40So for instance, for my mom, she's really thoughtful about presence. So I know that it's really important for her to be acknowledged for the thought that's gone into the presence. Whereas somebody like my father, he wouldn't care about the presence at all. He'd be more interested in just having a discussion with me about cheese. Do you know what I mean? So there's sort of little sort of different things there. And I think if you allow yourself to think about what other people like and what other people need, it allows you to then in a kind of more self-compassionate way, think which bits do I like and which bits do I need because it doesn't feel right to sort of just say hang on this is a bit of a storm here this is tricky every year how am I going to be nice to myself that doesn't feel right like why are you going to be nice to yourself you're just going to feel like guilty and worse and failing and black it out and you know maybe drink too much but if you actually think well hang on how does everybody respond to this what do people like what matters to them try to include that and and what do people need it makes it much easier to turn it inwards and to give yourself permission to think, which bits do I like?

14:38Yeah. And what do I actually need? So therefore, how do you say no? How do you set those boundaries when it might be the first time you're actually kind of doing that rather than going along with it and not enjoying it or ending up burnt out, resentful, etc.? What advice have you got for people asserting themselves in stating what they need? I think if you're going to do something new, plan it. So for instance, in my family, we're getting all very stressed about presents and costs and getting it right. Really unnecessarily stressed. And then we decided to just change it to a sort of system that other families have where we just do presents for the kids.

15:24And that was great, but it just needed to be kind of drip fed into this sort of family chat to get the agreement that actually that would be sort of better for everybody. I think actually just saying, hey, do you think we could try something a bit different? How would people feel about this? And it's about sort of saying that what you need, but also explaining why. What about this? Because. Yes. Let's just talk about masking for a minute, because Christmas time can take so much energy. Right. This is not just about family and this is not just about kind of a couple of days. This is workplace, Christmas party, after work drinks, annual friends getting together down the pub.

16:04All of these, I mean, I'm really not sociable. So I don't have any of these problems personally because I don't get invited to things and I don't go to things. So I'm not speaking from experience here, but like there's a lot going on socially. what's your advice for masking, avoiding burnout, managing energy levels for this period of time? I think you've got to think what your usual social battery is and not adapt it just because it's a few weeks different in the year. If you know that you're the kind of person who can manage one social activity a week plus work, if that's the limit, don't change it just because the calendar's flipped forward.

16:45Adapt it for that. Don't change what you already know to work for you. You've got to keep using all the intel you already have about what you need, what your profile is, and not try to just bend it to fit in. Because this is the whole thing is it ends up with this kind of strange festive masking on top that everybody is doing. You've probably not got the reserve to do that on top. So, for instance, with my work, we have a really good Christmas party, but I've never been. But I hear it's lovely. But when people say, are you coming? I just say, oh, thanks for including me, but I don't come to Christmas parties.

17:19full stop and I think there's something about the way that you word responses to these things when they come up that's really important because it can be very tempting to respond positively to something which is positive towards you and includes you yes when actually it might be better to have a phrase in mind that will be clear no what are good phrases for declining no is generally a good one. That's the blunt one, right? But it is actually pretty reasonable to say no. Yes. To thank them for the fact that you've been included, that actually, you know, the inclusion matters. That's really lovely to be thought of, to be held in mind.

17:58But it's not something you're able to do. Or say, that's great, I'd love some time to think about it. Or I'll check my diary. And then you can work out what you want to fit in and what you don't want to fit in. But I think you do need to have a sort of a structure in mind that allows you to consider the option of declining an invitation yeah who was i chatting to tylen grant i think amazing wisdom for like a 19 20 year old when they were sat here and we were talking about social battery and events and they came up with such a good idea of like i'm gonna go for an hour that's it so I'm not saying no but I'm not going to be the last one there I'm gonna go to the event say hello and then I'm gonna leave and I think that's interesting because it's a you're talking about sort of executes too like actually knowing what you're going to say when it's time to go to signal that that's enough yeah and actually if somebody thinks that you're really busy but you're still going to come for half an hour they feel great that you showed up because despite that you still came you still swung by you're the good guy yes right so if you can warning shot that ahead of time gosh i'm so busy thanks for including me i'll try to swing by for half an hour if i can yep then you do you're the good guy yes but also knowing knowing yourself like okay i only need to do an hour.

19:27And it'll be nice. It'll be upbeat. And then I know I'm leaving. And also to have the safety of knowing how you're going to leave. So if you can plan how you're going to leave, you can apply it to any event. You can apply it all year round. Yes. If you're at an event and you want to go and you're talking to people, you can just say that you must go and catch up with the host, extract yourself from the conversation, and then you can either go and catch up with the host, say, thank you very much for having me. This has been lovely. Use the past tense. This has been lovely. Happy days. So much of even what we're talking about just now is about the kind of self, I guess, and that level of awareness of this is what I need to look after myself.

20:10Unfortunately, we can't just do what we want all the time. right and so when it comes to family and family occasions where it's not a case of do you know what i'll check my calendar or do you know what i can't make it what would your advice be yeah where people are worried about going home worried about the big day or that big meal having to go and stay with family, things where they sort of quote unquote kind of have to do something or have to go. How can people manage that kind of situation? I mean, we have this strange habit, don't we, of rocking up to whatever Christmas we're doing each year and somehow just sort of drifting through it and surviving it.

21:05And then we repeat it every single year in the same pattern. I think it's about being a bit strategic and actually thinking how can I discreetly adapt some of this to make it work a bit better like for instance if you're the kind of person who's going to find it really hard to sit still at a dinner perhaps because you're ADHD that kind of thing or you're going to find it really hard to do all the conversation do more of the prep be up and about give yourself a sort of a task you know don't have enough chairs like there are so many there's so many reasons that you can just slightly tweak things without making it about you if you know what I mean without it appearing like you're sort refusing to join in because I think that's sometimes the message people can misunderstand but it's things like hang on a minute if I'm going to be at this particular location I'm not going to be able to do a whole day of this so how am I going to take some breaks where do I take my breaks do I go and walk their dog is there a spare room I can just go sit down for 10 minutes can I sit in the car for a minute like it's about kind of finding this sort of micro breaks that you can kind of do that are going to just allow you to kind of keep regulated I suppose because a lot of this stuff is just about regulation and then I suppose with children as well kind of co-regulation like trying to keep yourself together enough yeah everyone can kind of manage together in some ways the december pressure let's call it i know like there's mince pies in shops from like the end of october and as soon as halloween's over literally here come the christmas ads and we're we're kind of into this the season and we've got black friday happening and all this consumption pressure it's too much it's too much for everybody overwhelming it's so overwhelming It's horrific.

22:38The festive season is grotesque. It is a bit gross that we don't do any of this any other time in the year. And what I remember every year is, and I remember this also, I have this same thought on Mother's Day, Father's Day, Valentine's Day. Why is there this idea that we suddenly have to remember people or family or getting together at only these specific moments. Why can't we do that? It's like I hate dry January. Stupid idea, stupid concept. Just drink better all year. Like, just have better balance. I don't know. I hate the forced aspect of, well, we get together every Christmas. But like, why can't we get together throughout the year a bit more?

23:28Yeah. It's sort of this crescendo. and this sort of sense of sort of forced relaxation as well yeah and suddenly people eat cheese and chutney once a year and we eat turkey once a year and like and then we make resolutions yeah we do all these things like once a year we cut a tree down but that's not even old either it just seems so it seems so crackers in a way pun not intended And therefore, it just feels like such a time of extremes that are a big sensory overload. And I can imagine that social media, things like that can just catapult that forward when it's like, and here's me going to cut down my Christmas tree and decorate my living room.

24:18And here's the perfect turkey. And here's everyone with Christmas hats. because I know that people are looking at that going, like, I've got to do more. Got to make it perfect. Got to, kids, you've got to wear those horrible, scratchy, yucky, woolen Christmas jumpers. We've got to have that photo of you sat on the stairs with your little Christmas jumpers on. Yeah, I mean, I sound like such a Scrooge, but... But it's great to hear you say it because so many people are thinking the same thing privately, right? but this is what we're thinking. Yeah. And I think you little boy sitting on the stairs with a scratchy Christmas jumper, you're not remembering it because it was a fun memory.

25:01No. You're remembering it because it was weird and a bit stressful and confusing. Yeah. There were great bits, but there were tricky bits. There are, and I just feel it's like that cooking pot analogy, isn't it, of just bubbling and bubbling and then the pressure rises and just want to let the steam out and take the pressure off. So what do you say, therefore, to parents with children who have routines, things that they want to eat, things they want to wear, and they're worried? They're sat there going, oh, we've got to be nice and smart for this, or are they going to eat the turkey? What do you say to those parents?

25:44So I think the smartest thing you can do is actually to, before Christmas, ask your kids, what are the bits you really love? What are the bits that are tricky? Literally just find out so that you can redress the balance more towards what they enjoy and what they need. Because it doesn't have to be exactly the same as their friends. You can have a pizza on Christmas, it doesn't matter. You know, like you can wear your pyjamas all day. It doesn't matter. I think the best thing to do is actually find out what your children really love. It takes a lot of pressure off you as a parent in times of trying to create something perfect, present it to them, hope for the best, get all the intel first and then work with the intel within your framework about what you can manage as a family and what feels comfortable for you.

26:29What is there from the psychological aspect of human beings and us as a species around how we experience this time of year as children to then what that means in terms of our values and what's important as adults. I think we have a tendency to, psychologically, we repeat patterns in our lives and interpersonal patterns the whole time in our lives. But I think when you're seasonally predetermined to repeat a seasonal pattern, we fall back into similar patterns of relating to people and early attachment that we always sort of have done. If I'm honest, I think most people have had difficult Christmas sort of time festive period memories.

27:13They've had difficulties, whether that's unemployment, loss of a relationship, abuse, financial pressures, disputes, loneliness, poor mental health. And I think there's almost like a sense, isn't there, that we have a sort of a desire to correct that, to somehow almost cancel it out, as it were. But I think that actually difficult memories do shape how we kind of want the narrative to go in the future. But I think actually it's probably more psychologically healthy to sort of accept that you can't really control the narrative. You can't sort of predetermine that you're going to be happy for two weeks because it's that time of year.

27:52but there are things that you can do to kind of support your mental well-being in terms of things like being more mindful, being more self-compassionate, thinking more about what kind of routine will actually work well for you over that sort of period. Because for a lot of people, it makes more sense to jump straight back into work as soon as they can and kind of keep the show on the road, get things moving again, how they feel. Take down the Christmas tree because it's not Christmas and that feels illogical. Okay, that's all right. It's about kind of making the choices that kind of fit fit you to kind of maintain your kind of mental well-being rather than end up taking a battering just at the end of the year yeah i think most of the things that if you're neurodivergent that you know work for you because it is so individual isn't it some people get a lot of relief from different sensory things other people need just to have time on their own for a bit other people need better boundaries some people need more plans some people need to structure a sort of a new routine, decisions about if you have ADHD or if you have any mental health conditions, what to do about medications and, you know, making sure you don't run out.

28:54There are so many sort of things you can do. But basically, I think you can kind of rely on yourself in terms of the things that you know work for you. Don't just cancel them all to conform for two weeks. Keep all the things that you need to keep the show on the road. Keep all of them. Do more of them. Lean further into them. And what happens if you don't really know what you need? I think if you don't know what you need, probably a good idea is to think about what hasn't been fun for you in the past and to think what could be done perhaps a little bit differently. And I mean, I'm not suggesting that anybody goes home and sort of advocates a manifesto for change within their family, but it's about nudging things in a more positive direction, sort of trying things out, seeing how things could be.

29:39yeah and maybe testing a few things yeah i mean i think for instance having a different sort of christmas dinner if that's going to make things better for your children for instance or for you hearing how other people do things differently lessens the pressure to conform yes i'm going generalize here allison but let's go with it i think a lot ofnd people wear things like rsd people pleasing, masking, not necessarily able to state what they need. This becomes super magnified at this time of year because a lot is asked of us. We are invited to lots of things. We have the option to go to lots of things.

30:22There's quite a lot of demands on us and therefore being assertive and setting boundaries for a lot of people I can imagine is not a kind of natural habit what's your best advice for people starting to set boundaries you're right well actually it's generally not that people aren't good at setting boundaries it's just that they never put themselves first in the way that they need in order to set boundaries because they're kind of people pleasing masking fitting in there's rejection sensitivity as you say so it's not that people can't set boundaries well it's that they've never tried and i think it's not a skill that you grow up learning to do no one teaches you how to do it you don't see it often although it does happen a lot you don't necessarily know when it's happening because actually it's not a big deal to set boundaries it's completely fine so if someone said to you i don't know how to set boundaries what would you say i would say try to work out what what it is you need okay and then try to think about it before so that you've kind of practiced it.

31:32Now, I'm not saying mask. I'm saying it is a very useful time to have a little script that you can try and test it out. If it works, commit it to memory forever and reuse it every single year. Can you give me an example of that? Yeah. Like, so when people say to me, oh, we're going to have a Christmas drinks. We'd love you to come. I say, gosh, that's so nice of you, but I'm on call. I don't work on call, but it works. So is that lying? It's lying. Boundaries are different. You're right. Boundaries are really knowing what you need and why so that you can keep within the parameters where you're comfy.

32:06Yes. So sort of saying, for instance, you know, I'm going to be able to come for a little bit or I'm not able to do that. But what about we do this? I really don't actually feel comfortable doing that. It's not my thing. Yeah. It's okay to say it's not your thing. Yeah. And I tell you from experience, people remember. And so not in a bad way, but there is this sort of muscle memory that's built of, oh, right, who shall I invite to this? Oh, yeah, they'd be great to invite. Oh, yeah, Ben, he won't want to do that. and so I don't take it as anything bad that I'm not invited something I I actually look at it as oh you really they've read the room you you maybe you didn't think about me but maybe you did and think he's definitely not going to want to come to that that's definitely not going to be his kind of thing so I'm not even going to put him on the spot and ask him and so that's me saying hey the The more times you kind of go, you're that person that goes for a bit or you're that person that says, can I get back to you on that?

33:24Because I don't know what I'm doing. Or you're that person that says, actually, I don't want to do that. Yeah, the more times you do that, the more people will have clarity and understanding of where they stand with you. But also, if you have a little phrase that you use and it works, it's thrilling. It is. It is. You're like, oh my goodness, I'm not even going to have to go. This couldn't be any better. Like, it's actually quite exciting when you successfully navigate your way out of a situation that you don't feel comfortable to do, or you adjust a situation so that it suits you better. You know, for a lot of people, it's things like, I'd love to come and see everybody, but I'd rather skip the meal.

34:04There's so many different ways you can do it. But once you start trying it and you see that you can, pretty liberating. Yeah, it doesn't have to be, I'm never going and I'm there for the whole thing. And equally, it doesn't have to be, I'm not going to this because I'm autistic and I'm too autistic to cope. And I don't, it doesn't have to be, you don't have to explain why you are who you are, why you have preferences because everybody else has preferences too. Yeah, it's the justification and the explanation that you do not have to do. There doesn't have to be a big reveal to justify why you made a choice for you or for your children.

34:42For ADHDers on meds, what advice would you have? So the first thing I would say is don't run out. It doesn't matter if you have a few too many medicines, but the important thing is to not run out. So you've got the choice to take it if you need to. It does matter if you've run out and you needed it. So because doctor surgeries and pharmacies and things have more limited opening hours too, what you need to do is basically request your meds now. Make sure you've got some. And also some people feel that they shouldn't take medication when they're not at work. I've had lots of patients who have ADHD who, for instance, specifically take their medication at times when they're looking after their children and don't take it at days they go to work.

35:26So be prepared for the fact that actually that might be a time where continuing your medicine might allow you to stay focused and also to stay calmer rather than seeing it as it's a holiday. So I'll skip it. Same with children's medications as well, that actually it may be a time that actually that stability brings a bit more calm. Yeah. And I suppose the other thing, too, is that, you know, if you do run out of medication, you can normally get a small couple of days supply urgently from a pharmacy. but you do want to kind of really try to avoid that if you can. And also think about the effect of alcohol too with medicines as well.

36:01Let's talk about alcohol. It's obviously a big socialising time. It's time people buy champagne and we celebrate. And yeah, there's an excess aspect to this time of year, both in food, drink, consumption, presents, etc. Firstly, alcohol and ADHD medication, what happens there? So I guess any medicines that can affect your sort of brain functioning will always have a label in the bottle saying caution, whether that's an antidepressant or whether it's an ADHD medicine. So I suppose the thing about alcohol and an ADHD medicine is that a lot of people will say that you shouldn't mix them full stop.

36:38But actually, I think most people have ADHD who drink alcohol do mix it together. The difficulty is more that obviously if you have ADHD, you may have more problems around things like impulsivity and also emotional regulation. and obviously if you add alcohol into the mix too you're kind of amplifying your emotional dysregulation, amplifying your impulsivity and it kind of just becomes potentially a much kind of bigger threat to you in terms of things that might be dangerous or that you don't behave, you don't really want to do but then that temptation is also there if you have ADHD of course because of the more sort of dopamine seeking aspect and trying to sort of quieten a more restless mind and I suppose similarly with autism you have some things in terms of sort of social interaction and want to take the edge off a bit.

37:21But basically, I think really it's the same as anybody, that alcohol, it does mess with your head. And so you've got to kind of be prepared for what it's going to do. Yes. What are your thoughts on sort of peer pressure around socializing and drinking alcohol at this time of year? Oh, it's horrific, isn't it? It's awful. It's awful. So I think what you need is to kind of know what you might do in advance to not fall into traps. It's all about avoiding the traps, right? So I'd be thinking along lines of things like kind of planning what you're going to do sort of ahead of time. Even just knowing like if you do drink alcohol, how many drinks you're going to have before you stop or whether you, you know, what they call it, the sort of zebra method where you alternate between something soft and alcohol to make sure that you're reducing what you're having overall.

38:13But what I would say from experience is that for most of neurodivergent people, often abstinence actually is much, much safer. Yeah. And there are, and I'm obviously completely biased and plugging my own drinks. You've got some drinks? I've got some drinks. Okay. There are some great non-alcoholic options now, right, available. there is there is a lessening of the stigma around why aren't you drinking are you pregnant are you on medication i like to think there's less of that interrogation it being a bit more okay to be like i'm actually having a night off alcohol or i need to get up early or whatever the reason rather but but not needing to like justify and explain it and i really hope that christmas parties family gatherings obviously pubs bars restaurants venues just have good choice that's it just allow people to have good choice and that for neurodivergent people yeah i think could be massively empowering to kind of go oh yeah I can also drink what I want to drink I think it's also a really great way to actually get out of conversations too is to say I'm just going to get some water would anyone like some because if they don't want water you don't have to come back to them good one Alison well it's just if you ask if everybody wants a drink you don't have to come back with the drinks then you have to remember it's quite a lot to process if you say I'm just grab some water does anyone want some water they tend to decline and you get to leave yeah I like that one of the themes that we have been talking about actually that just keeps coming up is just a good bit of planning.

39:53I think there's a bit of preparation going into this time of year, both in terms of like, what do I need and what's important to me and what are the good bits and what are the bits that I find difficult and how do I avoid, decrease, minimise, problem-solve the bits that might be difficult. I think too, there's a bit of a pressure too that if you celebrate at Christmas, it all seems to sort of build up to this one day. Yes. And we get this sort of swampland afterwards where you're like, holy hell, I'm in this sort of no man's land between my usual life and something that's just happened and I don't know what to do.

40:30And you should be grateful because you've got some time off work, but you've lost your routine. Everyone's gone. There's some tidying up. There's food you didn't really want to eat left over. And it's kind of like this weird void where you don't quite know who you are or where you are. Yes. Sort of in time. Don't know what day of the week it is. Yeah. And actually, I think one of the things that's really helpful there is actually to think like, hang on, this is an opportunity. I sense an opportunity here. This is special interest time, right? This is where you get your hyper focus done. You're not at work, but this is where you're actually going to put some really good stuff in and just play a bit if you can, if you're not at work.

41:11Yeah. Work out some ideas, do a project, get scheming. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like do the fun bit while you've got a bit of a breather and see it as a breather, but not just a kind of languish, but to actually plan, right, this is my new routine to cover me between boxing day and sort of return to work time. Yeah, because it is a funny time, that one. It is a really funny period, but I do, I take a point that it can be so everything kind of driving towards one day and then this big come down ultimately. And it's a sort of, I don't know, I just see it as like, it's marathon, not a sprint this time of year.

41:53And it's not all about one day. And it is about a time of year and a season. or I'm trying increasingly just to go, this is winter. I think I'm right in saying that officially winter doesn't start until December the 20th. And winter is a time of dormancy and hibernation and all that kind of is not, it's the irony of life, it's not a time of merriment and sensory overload. Like nature is... Telling us what to do. Yeah, nature is like calming down and there's an element of like resetting a nervous system there that's about quiet, calm. But when you think about the sensory aspect of this time of year, how can ND people deal with the sensory side of this time of year?

42:48The lights, the sounds, the food, just it's a big sensory overload. What's your advice there? I think it's just really important to be really tuned in to what your sort of sensory profile is, because it is a time of sensory overload, but it's also a time of sensory joy for a lot of people. There are a lot of kind of sensory seeking things too, you know. People go to carol services because they like to hear the sounds. And so I think it's about thinking which are the elements that I find quite overwhelming or distressing, and what are actually the bits that are like, okay, these are my bits, this is what I like.

43:26because it's very different for different people. Not everyone likes a Christmas tree. You don't have to put lights up. You don't have to have decorations in your house. That's okay. Yeah, and I think the you don't have to is a really good mantra for this time of year. My mum skips trees all the time. Okay. Some year's tree, some year no tree. We don't comment on it. It doesn't matter. Yeah. That's fine. What do you think about Christmas traditions? I love traditions because to me they bring structure. like to me there's like this sort of I like the routines of knowing what's going to happen yes I've received a card because it's Christmas I like the fact it almost leads me through these quite difficult winter months so although I find it exasperating it pulls me forwards in time sort of nicely you know where you are like okay it's Christmas card time yeah yeah it's like it's like marker points that you're getting pulled through the seasons which I think is quite comforting yeah maybe it's about how fixed a tradition is we always have a christmas tree for example is it the same size no is it from the same place no is it decorated on the same day is it put up on the same day no no no no no but there's one fixed element of like there's a tree and we're going to decorate it that's probably going to keep happening but it doesn't have to be on a day but what you're saying is you've got your traditions yeah and they're not the prescribed ones but they're yours yeah they matter yeah and i think that that's probably the point isn't it that society sort of gets us to this point where we believe we have to have societal traditions everybody has to do the same things otherwise you're not keeping up with the joneses and you're not a modern citizen when actually people can have their fish and chips on christmas day tradition if they want we should be able to have all of our own individual traditions i think from my experience as a psychiatrist, what I noticed too is that the pull to conform makes people feel really isolated and really, really lonely.

45:29I mean, we've got to think, we can get all this effort in trying to keep up, but there are people who will have been sectioned on Christmas Day. That's what happened to them. There are people in hospitals, they're ill, they're dying. There's just this sort of tremendous sense that actually, the more we strive to just get it right, the further we feel from ourselves. The more sort of loneliness and isolation we can feel. Not everyone is going to have an amazing Christmas. There are going to be a lot of people in distress. And that's, yeah, that's difficult to acknowledge. What can people do if they are in distress or help other people who are in distress?

46:13So I suppose we know that around one in four people feel very lonely at Christmas time. but on top of that you can feel lonely on your own when you're disconnected or lonely when you're around people but also feeling disconnected I think the most sensible thing that I can think of you can do to improve that is to try to actively connect whether that's just having a person you send a message to just to do a check-in if you have somebody in your life that you can do that with not necessarily with any of the people you're spending the Christmas day with but just somebody to check you surviving. Yeah, me too.

46:49Send an emoji. Got it. And then I think the other thing that's really important is that if you don't have somebody that you can kind of just connect with if you need to in that sort of way that's sort of planned as a sort of check-in, that there is a lot of help available through different sort of support organizations and within the neurodivergent community more broadly, for instance, online or through listening to more of these episodes, for instance, or things like this to feel more connected. Second, I'd say that we've also got to be aware that a lot of neurodivergent people are going to be experiencing really poor mental health around this time of year.

47:22And I just want everybody to know that there is always, always help available, even if you don't have it in your immediate life. There is professionally. There'll be help from GP surgeries, the 111 service throughout the period, even when the GP services are shut. You can also access mental health teams and crisis teams over this period. And in particular, we just want to draw your attention to lots of resources of organizations who provide really robust support and listening lines throughout the season. Yeah, so we do have a look at some of the links that we've put in the show notes because, yeah, there's no need to kind of be in silence, I guess.

47:58Please do, yeah, reach out and however you can in whatever way. I love talking to you. I'm also just struck talking about this just by the ridiculousness of this. It's making me feel angry. I'm feeling quite angry. I feel like I just like to have a magnum for Christmas. And I don't mean a champagne. I mean, like, I'll just have a magnum, ice cream, and we'll call it a day. I'm just like, why? Yeah, we're so silly. But I think seeing the funny side is so important in this, right? Yeah. I always try and sort of imagine the kind of explain it to an alien sort of scenarios of, OK, so let me get this straight.

48:36You guys spend all this money, do all this kind of stuff. you put on these silly jumpers, you cut down trees, you put lights up. There's some big old guy in a red suit with magic reindeer. Like, what the fuck are you doing? This is so, so ridiculous. Like, it's just such a wild time and it's so unlike anything else in our calendar. But I think it's okay to give yourself permission to acknowledge that there's a lot of nonsense here. It's really easy to go, yeah, but there's some great bits and people have a great time. And it's a time when you can get together. It's a time when lots of people aren't working and take holiday and the kids are off school.

49:26And why shouldn't the kids get excited about Father Christmas and Rudolph and watch the snowman and listen to the carols and eat cheese? and pool crackers and decorate the house. There's nothing wrong with that. But equally, I would say the opposite is also true. There are a lot of people who spend this sort of time completely on their own. Yes. For weeks and weeks, maybe because they always spend their time on their own or maybe because it's preference. Maybe it's not preference, it's how their life is. Yeah. But I think it's a real one of these real push-pulls, isn't it, between kind of like wanting to connect versus wanting solitude.

50:04Yeah. as well yeah and just making sure that we pace ourselves and i think i'm sort of taking the kind of good planning good preparation setting good boundaries being assertive pacing ourselves recognizing that how i operate 11 months of the year there is no need for it to be drastically different for the 12th month of the year and that actually there are ways to find consistency there are ways to find routine and there are ways to find regulation even in a time when it seems like that's the opposite of what's going on so I think there's a lot of hope that can come from that and I guess the other thing of low expectations low pressure and if I think about my kids like low demands and low demands low expectations and being led by them and yeah i just continuing to kind of go what do i feel comfortable doing yeah so not burning out not shutting down not being overwhelmed i do really think about all those people who have been assessed this year and it's their first Christmas, maybe unmasked, maybe of medication, maybe with a total renewed sense of their identity.

51:36Any final words for those people? I think the important thing is to just know that you have permission to be yourself and it's about what feels comfortable for you and actually not for other people. Yeah. I remember the first Christmas I had three years ago knowing that I was autistic and I really did see it through a different lens. I really did notice this period differently. I agree. I think I felt similarly. You know? In the sense of just being like, gosh I'm really really loving it there only is only one other person here yeah and that when it gets a bit much I can just go and have a nap yeah and this is awesome oh I can say no to stuff but also I think for me since doing this podcast with you a lot of my family have listened to it I found out that I'm autistic, which I hadn't got round to disclosing.

52:43So I also recommend you could always just out yourself on a podcast to many thousand people. And then you only have to do any of the conversations because it's done. Just record a voice note. Just record a voice note. Stick it in the family chat. Send to all. Stick it in the family chat. Yeah. And then go, oh, I didn't mean to. And then leave the group. And then leave the group. And then exit. Archive exit. it whatever i'm out of there so we had some questions from some of our listeners and i thought i'd highlight a few of them and get your thoughts on them first one is how best to support annd partner during this time i think the smartest thing you can do is ask them just show you care love it curiosity another question from one of our listeners tips for avoiding burnout out at Christmas time.

53:36Remember what works for you the rest of the year and apply it, but even more during the last month of the year. Love it. Another question from one of our listeners, your top three tips on leaving early. If you choose to attend, number one, know what you're going to say to leave. Number two, practice it. Number three, deliver it and turn around and walk away. Once it's delivered, it's in the bag. And then number four, feel really glad and proud of yourself. Yeah. Yeah, and then reuse it. And number five, repeat. Repeat. Repeat what works. Rinse and repeat. It's devastating. Yes, try it. One more listener question for you, Alison.

54:27how best can I support my ND child this Christmas? I don't have any children. So I'm actually going to flip the question back to you and ask if you know. So the best advice I can give for supporting an ND child during Christmas is join in, be curious, ask questions, and ask them what they want to do. be led by them low demands low expectations and i am treating it as a really amazing opportunity to see this time of year through their eyes because for most children this is all pretty magical final question what are your hopes for neurodivergent people for this festive period i really hope that over the sort of festive period and new year that people can just get through right that'll be enough i'll be happy with that and that actually start the new year with some sense of actual kind of pride in who they are and a sense of kind of unity that actually you're not on your own with this like if anyone's watching this over the period you can be pretty best sure that you know ben's feeling a certain sort of way i'm feeling a certain sort of way you're not the old man out that's the most important thing yeah you're not alone i think that's uh i think that's a good one thanks allison for coming back on and sharing your words of wisdom yeah i just i hope you have a a great rest of this year yeah that sounds good same to you i'm figuring out what that yeah it's not really merry and happy christmas and all that kind of stuff but well it's difficult to say things you don't really mean isn't it yeah it is oh i hope you have a fantastic christmas i know like you're not getting a christmas card from me hope you're all right maybe see you again but it's true there's a good point there about just thinking about the new year actually i think we're we are at quite a sort of exciting time aren't we in terms of neurodivergence this year's been a busy one we've had the adhd task force report we've had the autism committee report just landed yep balls in their court and i think that's what we really what we kind of really hope for in the year is a bit of action absolutely the reports of reports and yeah balls firmly in their court come on what is actually going to happen in 2020 26 action wise and i'm also kind of quite excited to for a bit more kind of sort of unashamed truth telling in the community because i think we've spent a long time over the last few years talking about myths and i think we need to flip it now and talk about truth because that's what we know we live yes and that's what you're doing for the hidden 20 yeah and that is not say the myth and then kind of shut it down it's just like here are loads of truths actually here's the reality of what's going on and I would actually on that we would love to hear from people listening and watching about this time of year for you because I know this is going to come up guess what every year and so the better we can understand how people are navigating this time of year the more we can be helpful the more we can help prepare people get ahead of it and so yeah if If you've got tips, tricks, what works for you, what doesn't, please do get in touch and let us know.

58:16That's it for today's episode of The Hidden 20%. But just before you go, a favor. The Hidden 20 % is a charity and we do this to bring you the truth, the latest research and the real stories that matter. so if this episode spoke to you then please hit subscribe and if you can donate via the link below finally a big shout out to you all for listening and our brilliant team who make this all happen Phoebe, Charlie, Kristen, James, John and the guys at TYX Studios we'll see you next time

59:01Thank you.