Money Expert: A $37 Trillion Market Reset Is Coming - Do This Now! | Chris Camillo

23:36Once embodied AI comes to fruition, which is robots, which is inevitable. It's just we can debate the timelines, but it's inevitable. Amazon's the biggest winner. So, like, I don't care what happens in the next few weeks to few months with Amazon. If it drops, I'll just buy more.

23:52Chris Camillo:Yeah. Amazon's been incredible. I went to Home Depot the other night to find an extension cord. I wanted to find a 15-foot extension cord outdoors. And I went to Home Depot and I looked at the prices and then went to Amazon. And I realized I could buy the same thing at Amazon for half the price. And it would arrive the next morning between like 6 and 8 o 'clock a.m. That's insane. So I just went and bought it on Amazon instead. The other thing that's interesting with Amazon is their movies that you could watch and their shows that you could watch on Amazon, which are like Beast Games was through Amazon.

24:31Chris Camillo:And so them getting in that media side, too, I think is incredible. Not a lot of people think about that. It's fun, but it's not what I really care about. What I really care about is the infrastructure play that Amazon has invested in over the last couple of decades. That once they're able to properly, you know, kind of tweak the efficiencies in that infrastructure with automation and robotics, which is inevitable. I think Amazon is going to be unstoppable. Meaning like I don't think you'll be able to compete with Amazon in terms of your ability to get a product from here to there. What about the growth possibility though?

25:12Amazon is already such a massive company that if they doubled, they would be the largest company. And if they doubled, like it would be hard, I feel like, to make a substantial return on Amazon. Not when you use leverage, right? So if you're using leverage. So if they go up 10%, you have like weekly calls on it, then you can. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't have to be weekly calls, right? I mean, it could be monthly calls. It could be just investing on leverage. Like that's what I do. So I take big swings when I have high conviction in a thesis. So I'm curious, what does your portfolio then look like right now?

25:53You had Dave, the other host of Dumb Money Live, say that your portfolio is just insanity. and I'm curious, you know, like what are the main stocks that you're super bullish on and the swings that you see? Listen, I'm going to stay super bullish on Robinhood for a long time. I don't see that position changing anytime soon. I'm still bullish on NVIDIA, but I'm not levered like I used to be. That was insane. What I was doing with NVIDIA a few months ago was actually - What were you doing? Actually kept me up at night. I mean, I had 10, percent of my portfolio invested in weekly NVIDIA options every single week.

26:37Sometimes 15 percent of my entire liquid net worth and options that if it just moves a dollar the wrong direction in the next few days, it disappears. But I had pretty good conviction that every week it was going to move in the right direction. And except for like maybe one of those weeks, maybe two, I hit it every week. How is that not gambling? It's not gambling. It's the opposite of gambling. Every single one of those trades was based on a thesis that was deeply researched, right? So it was the, hey, I see who's flying over to the UAE next week. I know they have these meetings. I know exactly what those meetings are going to be about.

27:17Like, it's not hard to anticipate what the news flow is going to be once they arrive in the UAE, once they have those conversations, once they talk about the data centers, once the news starts to put together the pieces about who's going to be the biggest beneficiary. Oh my gosh, now we have this thing called sovereign AI and all the stuff that Jensen was talking about is actually becoming real. I mean, every week there was a different story. So I wasn't just randomly throwing my money in NVIDIA calls that week. I had a thesis related to a very specific piece of information that I felt was going to get dispersed right that week.

27:53And for the most part, it did. And it worked. So the way that you kind of balance out your finances is very interesting. You have your trading account that you try to build up to a certain amount, like low eight figures. And then from that point, you take a chunk out at the end of the year, put it in the foundation. And so what would happen then if your primary trading account, you were wrong on some of these things? Like, how would you build that back up? Like, do you, because I don't think you necessarily have like an active source of income. I do have active sources. I remember I have a few restaurants.

28:25A true, yeah. Volatile source of income. But you were just, you were lamenting recently, I think on X, about how hard it is to be successful in the restaurant business. It's the hardest. It's the worst. We are successful, but we're an anomaly. I do have another business, as you guys know, Collecticon, which is the largest, you know, Pokemon trade show in the world. and that's actually an obscene cash flowing business and I love it. So no, I do have income, but for the most part, you're right. Like I generate as much as I can from my trading account and then I take a big chunk of it and put it in my foundation every year.

29:01And I have gotten a little, listen, Dave has known me since I was 13, right? And he's seen me go through these cycles and I've gotten in some very squirrely situations in the past where he's had to lend me money. He's had to lend you money? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. How did that conversation go about? I mean, we were younger and it wasn't a lot of money. But yeah, I mean, I... Just a few hundred thousand dollars last week. I had, listen, I don't know if I told you guys this before, but, you know, when I was post-college, you know, I had taken cash advances off of every single credit card that I had, like five or six credit cards, cash advances.

29:38I used those cash advances to buy options in one stock that went bad. And then I went broke. I lost every dollar to my name and I was in debt. How old were you? Early 20s. And how did you get out of that? How much debt did you have? I didn't get out of it. It was horrible. I was, I was, had no money. My, I was living in LA. My apartment costs$525 a month. My car was broke down. I was selling cars at the time, literally selling cars at a Santa Monica BMW, I believe at the time. And I was just completely broke. And then unfortunately I didn't have health insurance and I got sick. I got something called Graves' disease, which is a thyroid disorder.

30:18And I had to move home to Texas. My parents took care of me. And once I got better, I just started building my way. But it took a few years. Took a few years. Yeah, took a few years. From one bad stock. Yeah. How much debt did you take? It was the most incredibly bad stock to ever be invested in. It was a stock that ended up having some kind of fraud and they delisted it while I had my options. So they didn't delist it. Excuse me. They froze the stock while they were investigating the whole thing, the SEC. And because the stock was frozen while I was holding my options, my options just expired worthless.

30:59What did you learn then from that experience? Risk management is important. Yeah, it is important. I was a kid. I always tell people, like, that's when you want to make mistakes. The only way you will ever learn these lessons is losing real money. So I encourage everyone when they're young just to actually do stuff, to invest with their own money. Because if you do blow up your account, you are going to learn that lesson. You want to learn that lesson when you're really young and you're investing thousands of dollars and not millions of dollars and you don't have a family, right? And that's when you want to do it.

31:36But yeah, I was in debt for many years. my credit ruined. You know, when I met my wife, I was deep in debt, had no money. Like it was, it was, it was bad, but you come out of it.

31:49Chris Camillo:But how did you have the faith to then go back into the market and do it again? What else are you going to do? Right. Like, like I learned my lesson, but like my lesson was I had too much concentration and I didn't really, at the time, I wasn't investing properly. I wasn't investing the right way. I was investing because I got, I knew a guy that knew a guy that said, hey, this is a sure thing. First of all, as we know, there is no such thing as a sure thing. But more important than that is you have to do your own homework. And that's what that's what now you know why I preach. I don't just say that to say that.

32:24Like I say it because I really mean it. When people try to like copy my trades or people ask me for my exact trades, I generally don't release them anymore because I truthfully do not want to instill that type of behavior steal my ideas but do your own research and actually make your own decisions because these are really important decisions you don't want like i don't want to blow up your account right like that's on you not on me so i'll share an idea with you but you got

32:52Chris Camillo:to go i gotta say when we met vlad from robin hood completely changed my opinion of the company like i was a fan of robin hood and i had been for a long time but meeting vlad and seeing him face to face and seeing his excitement about the company and how passionate he is about open to ideas which i thought is the most important thing you need to be able to pivot and hear out other people and listen to the right ideas and ignore the bad ones and we were like i was feeding him some excellent ideas and he was like totally interested he's like yeah like we're we kind of working towards that and yeah but it made me really think that robin hood i think has what it takes to compete with the big people like Schwab, which I think a lot of people tend to compare them to in terms of account balance size and number of accounts and average account, you know, things like this.

33:43Chris Camillo:Seeing Vlad and even going to Hood Summit in Las Vegas, we got invited. Incredible. And you meet the people there that like, you know, you see Tesla superfans where they're like all Elon. I met those people. but for Robinhood, like a totally different segment of the market where people are so excited about Vlad and Robinhood. And I think he's one of the few people where after meeting him, I was convinced on the company. And we've met other people, big investors, where immediately after meeting them, I'm like, all right, listen, I lost all faith. I will say Michael Saylor was pretty convincing, too.

34:18Chris Camillo:Yes, Michael Saylor was the only other one that when Bitcoin was$48 ,000,$50 ,000 when we filmed with him afterwards, I'm like, you know what, Jack? What he says makes a lot of sense. No comment on Michael Saylor, but I will say this. That was the best interview Blot has ever done. I watched that, and he's come a long way. He used to be terrible at giving interviews. Oh, he was excellent, yeah. Yeah, that was great. Listen, Robinhood's my number one position. It became my number one position this last year. It grew into becoming my number one position at Clips Amazon. And my thesis has always been really simple.

34:56We have$100-ish trillion that will get transferred over the next 30, 35 years to the younger generation through inheritance and other means. And a big chunk of that money is going to Robinhood. And beyond that, I have a second thesis on Robinhood, which is Vlad manages that company like a startup. There are very few companies in the world of that size where the founder CEO is quite honestly has the balls to still manage it like a startup and to take big risk and to break through walls and to ask for forgiveness as opposed to asking for permission. And Elon is one of those guys. He gets credit for being one of those guys.

35:38Vlad does not get credit for also being one of those guys. So anytime I see a company like that, with the capability of dominating a sector and literally like, like, like killing a sector and stealing all the business, you match that with a CEO like that, like

35:58Chris Camillo:it's game over. Here's the other thing is that he agreed to come on our podcast, which a lot of people don't do. And I think I think it's dumb not to come on a podcast, especially like a finance podcast. And we've we reach out to a lot of people and we either get a lot of no's or just never hear back from people that should be doing podcasts. And we would I think we'd be doing them a favor by doing a podcast. And Vlad was excited about doing it and walking into his office. It's it's not like a corporate, you know, headquarter. It didn't look, it looked like a house. It also was surprisingly not extravagant.

36:33Chris Camillo:No. I was expecting we were going to walk into some sort of like crazy huge headquarters, the classic Google thing with the slides and, you know, free food everywhere, buffets and this and that. It really looked like they were running relatively lean for how productive their company is, which I also think is a positive indicator. And this is going to be another big one. They're two and a half percent crypto match right now. They just brought it back. I don't know if it's targeted, but they had a 2 % match when Bitcoin was at$120 ,000. Then they increased it, which I thought was really clever, to 2.5%, but Bitcoin is now$100 ,000.

37:11Chris Camillo:So technically, it's not costing them that much more, but it looks on paper that you're getting 2.5 % on a lower amount, though. But it looks like 2.5 % for whatever you bring into the platform. They're going to bring in a lot of money to Robinhood. The thing that Vlad and Robinhood does is they play the long game. They are playing the long game. They are in this for the next 20 to 30 years to be the biggest financial company on earth. I have absolute confidence that they will be unless something really crazy happens. um listen i opened up a robin hood account uh well i've had an account for a long time but i put meaningful money into my robin account for the first time this year which was shocking because like i'm just that's not something i ever thought i would do i'm old school but it was because of the match um yeah it it was it was the extra little thing that said you know what i'm gonna go ahead and do this because it was that extra incentive that got me to pull the trigger and listen, once you're in that ecosystem, they do a really good job.

38:14By the way, I love, I mean, the fact that you can, you know, prediction markets on your brokerage. Oh man, don't get me startled on that. It's huge though because you got to realize it's not about even how big of a market that can be. It's about the fact that you can do everything through one app, right?

38:32Chris Camillo:That prediction market is great and it's awful because now every sports game I watch, or go to. I'm I don't want to say I'm betting. I am placing a hedged position on Robin Hood in real time. That's what they want. It's not it's not gambling. How are you? It's like you're hedging a position. It's gambling. It's definitely gambling. That is by that is not a hedge. It's speculation. There we go. I'm speculating on Robin Hood. But what's funny is that I could watch like I went to a hockey game the other day and I'm watching the hockey game at the same time as I'm watching my Robin Hood account because I bet on the Las Vegas Golden Knights.

39:12Chris Camillo:And when one team scores, like you see the odds change within like two seconds. It's already priced in. How much did you bet? $100 and I lost it all. So good, so good, so good. New summer arrivals are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. Get ready to save big with up to 60 % off brands like Rag & Bone, Levi's, Adidas, and Free People. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome?

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40:19Chris Camillo:But you had fun. I had a great time. And I also bet on the, oh, this was bad. I put money on Cuomo in New York because I thought it would be a closer race. And he was priced when I bought in at like seven cents. and I knew he was probably going to lose, but I thought that was underpriced. I thought it should be more of like, he should be a 15 to 20 cent bet and that lost. I just tell the maturity. That's a fair thesis. You know, that's my favorite type of investing is when you see an asymmetric risk reward. Investors, like the way our brains work, we're not really capable of computing that. And those opportunities are out there all the time.

40:59It's like, okay, yeah, it probably won't happen. but there's likely a 2x better chance of it happening than how it's priced currently. So you have to take that even if you're likely to lose. You have to size it appropriately. But you do it enough and you will win.

41:15Chris Camillo:But here's the one thing that I think is worth looking out for with Robinhood is that their fees on the prediction markets are so massive. It almost makes it not worth it to go through Robinhood. But the thing is, it's so easy. Like it saves me from having to drive down to Red Rock and place a bet when I could do it on my phone in like two seconds. But the spread between the bid and the ask and the Robinhood fee you pay adds up to like 10 to 15 percent a buy and then 10 to 15 percent a sell if you sell it before it matures. Okay, so I think they're looking at the long tail of customers who want to engage in that type of prediction market as opposed to the professional gambler, right, that really cares that much.

42:03For people like me, I don't care. Like if I want to bet on a game, I don't care if I can get a 5 % better margin going to MGM, which I can't even do in Texas anyway. Right. But even if I could, like I said, it's just easy and they make it easy and fun. I can go on there and place a bet like 5x quicker than I could on a gambling app. It's just easier. And I think a lot of people don't want to have a gambling app. They don't want to have money inside of a gambling app. That's just not part of who they are. And I think Robinhood is going to end up with millions and millions of people casually betting on sports, casually betting on various things.

42:40And I think that's fine for them.

42:42Chris Camillo:So in terms of the AI infrastructure that's going in right now, what do you think the impact is going to be on jobs? Because I've heard a saying that says that AI is not going to create more jobs. It's simply going to redistribute them to fewer people. Yeah, this is a topic that I love, that I think most people get wrong. I think this will be massively positive long-term for jobs, just massively. Just play out the scenario, okay? Like, in what world do we end up reducing the amount of scarcity and increasing productivity globally? That doesn't ultimately benefit humans in a whole number of ways, including more opportunity and better jobs and just better life.

43:36Will there be hiccups in the short run? Yes. Can we actually define what jobs look like in 25 years? Absolutely not. But I want you to envision a world where AI continues to accelerate over the next 20 years. You will have a world where we're going to have millions, if Elon is correct, billions of robots. What they look like, who knows? But there will be billions and billions of robots all around the world. There will be new industries being formed because we now have this intelligence that makes everything so unbelievably easy and cheap and productive to deliver value or to start new things, right?

44:14Essentially, any human on Earth can create entertainment on the fly, whatever's in your head. you're able to actually express without having the skill set of being able to actually produce music yourself right you have a helper there you don't have to be able to produce a tv show or go raise funding to produce a tv show envision that world and just imagine how much demand we will have for humans how many more products will we have how many more machines will we have that need to be serviced and delivered and taken care of and sold. A world with more things requires more work from humans, right?

44:57So like, I am 100 % convinced in this. Like, this is not even debatable to me. What a job is in 25 years might look very different from what a job is today, but there will be more and better jobs as a result of AI and robotics in 20 to 30 years. Now, again, between now and then, will we have hiccups? Yeah. The issue is we can't foresee how that problem gets solved if AI moves too quickly and disrupts too many job positions, but we will fix that problem. So like, like humans, we, we don't fix big problems until the pain of not fixing that problem becomes bigger than the pain of taking action. Okay.

45:50So right now, the pain of like, let's just say it was, uh, increasing taxes. That's a huge pain. Like we're not going to increase taxes unless we absolutely have to for something, right? If we have 50 million people that are jobless in eight years because of AI, do you not think we're going to resolve that? Of course, we're going to resolve that. Because if we don't resolve that, the pain of not resolving that will end up be people overthrowing our government and coming with, you know, picks and shovels to actually kill us, okay? So that problem will get solved when it needs to get solved. But don't you think that the government would then just step in and subsidize life if you had this massive unemployed workforce that should be working?

46:37Then that's kind of what we've seen in the past is like the government steps in like they've done with education and now, you know, housing is becoming less affordable. So now they've, you know, they're thinking about introducing 50 year mortgages. Okay. So the answer is maybe yes, it will get solved. Will the government solve it, maybe someone will solve it because the alternative is so catastrophic that we would never allow that to happen. And by the way, not to mention the fact if AI becomes that great to displace tens and tens of millions of workers, probably going to be pretty great at helping us solve those problems too.

47:14I have always thought, I mean, not to get too into politics, I always stay out of politics. You know, I have some of my very closest friends on the furthest right as you can get. And some of my very closest friends are literally as far left as you can get and everything in between. And I've just been this guy in the middle my whole life. I kind of call myself like like a radical centrist because it's like it's I just like to solve problems. So much of this is about misunderstanding and miscommunication and sentiment and feelings and people just not coming up with solutions because we have all these obstacles to coming up with solutions.

47:55AI doesn't have that. I think AI is going to actually play a really big role in helping us solve all of these huge problems that we have today when it comes to how do we spend money as a government, because that's what most people on the right have an issue with. I don't think billionaires or millionaires would have any issue paying more taxes if they had confidence that the money was being spent appropriately to help humanity. I really don't. And to help their neighbors and because that benefits them, right? Because those people are their friends, their family. We all want the same thing. Most of us want the same outcome, right?

48:29We just don't know how we argue over how to get there. So I think AI is going to do a really good job helping not just companies become, because everyone's talking about companies becoming more productive and efficient. Like it's going to help governments in a really big way. And no one's talking about that. And once AI gets into government, which it will, and actually helps government figure out how to be more productive with our money. I think we're going to see such massive efficiencies there and what we can actually do with our tax dollars to help people. It's one of the things I'm actually most excited about, about this AI revolution.

49:06So yes, we'll have hiccups. Uh, it will not be a long-term problem. And I don't know exactly what the solution will be or how it will play out. I just know we'll figure out how to like, like, like even out the bumps along the way, but ultimately we will have better and more jobs for humans as a result of this. There's, there's like no doubt in my mind. Like, I would bet everything I have on that. Let's be honest for a second. Most days, it feels like your computer is running you, not the other way around. You've got 20 tabs open, five apps, all competing for your attention. And basically every day you get way less done than you wanted to.

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52:27this episode. China is racing towards AI superiority, okay? And that, more than anything else, ensures that the U.S. government is going to support and, if needed, backstop our AI ambitions, okay? Nothing in the world motivates a country to backstop something and to support it more than its competing enemy that is pushing forward on that frontier. So that's something that I think people don't fully appreciate. So when we're talking about AI and all these big investments, like we don't have a choice. Our government doesn't have a choice. Like even if there is some degree of unknowns or like, hey, we're not exactly sure how this is going to play out, the government is not going to allow the U.S.

53:27to fall meaningfully behind China in this AI race. So whatever needs to happen, whether there are government incentives on AI data centers or energy, whatever needs to happen, the government is required to ensure that happens because this is the new arms race. Think about it. If China becomes the country that's able to produce products 5x cheaper than us, right? They have intelligence on future warfare and weapons, right? And on vaccines, like you can't let China have AGI. You can't let China get super intelligence like meaningfully before you have it. That's a national security risk. so there is an inferred backstop here on the sector which is the government now the CEOs are not going to talk about it because Sam Altman kind of alluded to it and it created quite a stir but it's there guys it's there we all know it's there they all know it's there Sam knows it's there like all the big tech CEOs they all know it's there Jensen knows it's there um this is too big to fail.

54:44Chris Camillo:I feel like those are famous last words. It is too big to fail. But it was last time and look how it got saved. Okay. This, this, now I say too big to fail as a sector. Companies, obviously, companies can obviously fail, right? But when you look at the infrastructure sitting behind it, the infrastructure really is too big to fail. This infrastructure might be the most important thing that our country works on the next 20 years. And we need to ensure that we are in lockstep, if not ahead of China, every step of the way. You can love it or hate it, but that's just the way it is. And that adds to my confidence level because there will be moments that will be really rough along the way.

55:31There'll be moments when, like today, like complete freak out moments, may be way, way worse than today. The government's going to be there. You think they're going to let our AI superpowers just completely fall apart and let China move forward with AGI and superintelligence and have access to all the next generation weapons and warfare and vaxio?

55:55Chris Camillo:But doesn't that then mean that it's really going to be the taxpayer who ends up funding AI? And do you think this is the reason why they're investing so much right now because they know we can't go belly up because the government wouldn't let us. So we may as well take riskier bets right now. There are a lot of reasons to take those big bets because, again, it's an asymmetrical risk reward. If AI does what everyone believes it will, and again, it's not about us reaching AGI in like two years. It could be 10 years, 15. It doesn't really matter. We've already seen enough. We know where it's headed.

56:27You can't not be part of that. It's just so, so obvious. Yes. It's like saying you're not going to be part of the Internet when it came out. Like, you know, like, listen, it didn't cost that much to be web oriented as a company when that happened. This just happens to cost more, but you can't just not be part of it. Even look at what Apple's doing right now, right behind the scenes. You know that like Apple's trying to figure out a way to leverage Google, to leverage all the stuff they're doing. You know, Apple has a lot of data for Google. I think this is what you're going to see really soon.

56:59Apple is going to lean on Google's models for all their AI the next few years. And I think they're going to get a great deal for that because Apple has so much crucial data for Google to share back. I think that's going to be the deal that plays out. But even Apple, who's behind on AI, they will catch up.

57:19Chris Camillo:Does it worry you about the circular financing nature? No. Not at all. Why? It's what has to happen. uh the circular financing is a huge problem if this doesn't work out to explain the circular financing too so basically if you're nvidia and you're essentially financing your customers to buy your own chips essentially there's a lot of different ways that it's happening right now if your customers go belly up you're taking the hit too right so that's where we get into trouble circular financing could be not such a bad thing if everything moves in the right direction if this whole thing falls apart and we're not not able to monetize artificial intelligence at the corporate level at the consumer level if there's no monetization that eventually comes in over the next five to call it eight nine ten years that's a problem and that that yeah so so So think of the circular financing as leverage.

58:24It's just NVIDIA and Jensen have a strong thesis and they have a lot of conviction the same way I do. And they're willing to place a little bit of leverage on it. The way that they're doing that is they're taking their cash and rather than just giving their cash back to shareholders, they're spending their cash to allow their customers to do bigger and better things with their chips. That's it. It's nothing. It's not that scary. I know it sounds scary because it can. It's leverage. It just looks scary. Okay. So think about leverage. When things go wrong, they go really wrong. But when things go right, they go really right.

59:00And so everyone's making a bet that they've seen enough, they know enough, they know directionally where we are headed, even if there are bumps in the road, that it makes sense to apply leverage. And that's where the circular financing comes in. And I don't blame them for doing it. Like, I like it. What's so amazing to me is like you've seen like what Nano Banana, like you've seen some of this stuff, right? What's Nano Banana? Like a Photoshop. Google. And it's the new one's coming out like literally any day now. You've seen what OpenAI has done, right? With their social network, right? Have you been on there yet?

59:37With the Sora? Sora, yeah. Yeah. All the Jake Paul memes are hilarious. But guys, this is like not even 1.0. Like they literally just showed us the future. Like, how do you see that? How do you see that? See what this AI is capable of doing today?

59:54Chris Camillo:Okay, but I see that. The first thing in my mind is every actor, every movie, every production company is going to be obsolete in 20 years. Like they were talking about doing a big movie studio here in Las Vegas and bringing it in from Hollywood and they wanted all these subsidies and that got temporarily shut down. And at first I was like, oh, that's dumb. Think of all the jobs it would bring here. And then I'm thinking, you know what? In 20 years from now, it's going to be a dude on his computer sitting on a couch who could create the next Michael Bay movie in 20 minutes for$10. All these movie production companies are going to be wiped out.

1:00:30Chris Camillo:Like, why get a real actor when you could get the perfect AI? And when you think about it, when you're watching something, it's just pixels on a screen. And when you think if the pixel coloration is perfect and the way they're laid out on the screen is perfect, it's going to be identical. And you could create anything that you want to. Like, why wouldn't that wipe out entire industries? And then what you're left with is all these people who have trained their entire lives for one specific thing, and that gets wiped out. What do they do when they're 50 and they don't have savings and they have to learn something all over again when they're entering retirement and they don't know what to do?

1:01:04Okay. So let's frame that in a way that I know you'll appreciate. Okay. We used to have a media world where all of the media, all of the marketing and all the advertising got pushed through agencies and then got pushed through old media. And so if you wanted to advertise something, the flow of the money only went one way. And you had newspapers and you had TV networks and cable networks. You had radio stations. And they essentially controlled all of those media dollars. now we democratize the world of media globally through social networks and now we have millions tens of millions of content creators around the world in every little niche those content creators are delivering messages on behalf of companies around the world right so a big part of that media world has already been disrupted and has already been torn apart right it's not what it used to be, newspapers.

1:02:05They barely even exist. Radio barely even exist anymore. Wait till you see what's about to happen to the rest of that world, like TV and Hollywood, all of it, right? But look at what we created. Do you not think that what we created to replace that is meaningfully bigger, more efficient? And look at the way the dollars are flowing. They're still flowing to people, you have a real job, Graham. Like you are a creator, like your job matters just because you don't work at the newspaper that went out of business 15 years ago, doesn't mean that's any valid, less valid of a job. At the time we did just didn't have the foresight to understand what that job was going to look like in the future.

1:02:48So in the same way, I agree. I think Hollywood will change. I don't know if it will like completely go away or how long that will take. But I think what this is going to create is going to be meaningfully larger than the system that exists today.

1:03:03Chris Camillo:And what's going to happen to the people who don't adopt it? Who get left behind or just aren't as ambitious to pursue these things? I mean, I think you can say that about any other innovation. If you don't change with the times, you won't benefit, right? So if you didn't adopt computers or if you didn't adopt the internet when it came out, your company was likely going out of business. So yeah, you have to adopt it. That's what I tell every kid. I constantly get asked by other parents, what should I be telling my kids? What jobs should they go into? I don't know about jobs, but just start using AI every day.

1:03:42Start spending it. Learn all the tools. Because this is not going away, and this is not a bad thing. It's generally a good thing. If it doesn't kill us, and it might kill us, I don't know about that. There is a doomsday scenario that's like very real, very legitimate, and definitely something to be concerned about as we start to not only democratize the ability to make entertainment, but to democratize the ability to make weapons, to democratize the ability to do damage in the world. That does concern me. This doesn't concern me at all. So what is the doomsday scenario for AI? The doomsday scenario for AI is democratizing violence, like democratizing the ability to do bad things.

1:04:22Because the same way that we can now do amazing things so quickly, so cheaply, and anybody in the world has access to the information to do those things, you could use these tools to do terrible things. To, I don't know, create viruses that we can't even imagine. To create weapons that we can't even imagine. I mean, to just do damage through hacking and various things. Like you've seen some of the deep fakes, the deep fakes alone are exceptionally dangerous right now that are out there. Like there was an investor who's very well known who kind of exposed, you know, a deep fake of Elon Musk this last week, kind of talking about some political issues.

1:05:03And in his, you know, this is Bill Ackman, right? Bill Ackman is known for doing deep, deep research. It would take one of us like 15 seconds to realize this was like AI. He said, it might be fake. It might not be. I'm like, what might? It literally says it's AI if you just read it. But this is the issue, right? Like we don't even know what's real and not real anymore. There are a lot of dangerous things that are coming out of this, but I don't think it's the job issue that everyone's so concerned about. So you said it's extremely important to stay on the cutting edge of AI and to educate yourself with AI.

1:05:38What are the best ways to do that? Like, how do you apply AI in your own life to better it? And how if a listener out there wants to like learn more and adopt AI as deeply as possible to be able to use that in the markets, how would you recommend they do that? First, follow the right people. You should be spending 15 minutes a day just catching up on whatever happened in AI that day. You should do that every day for the next few years. There's a guy on TikTok, I think he's on Instagram, called Nate that mentioned us during our last show. He's like the Mr. Rogers of AI. And in like 60 seconds, he'll tell you, he'll spend nine hours researching whatever happened in AI that day and tell you in 60 seconds.

1:06:15So like anyone could understand the way he communicates. So that's like the one guy I tell everyone to follow. I forget his last name. But if you're younger, you have to use AI. Like you have to use the tools for everything that you do. Like there's so many tools, creator tools. You should be creating with AI. You should be using it for your writing. You should be using it to help you with every single aspect of your life. there are hundreds of AI tools, you should be using the top 15 or 20 of them on a regular basis, because that's value. Like this is the new world. This is whatever your new job is going to be.

1:06:50It's going to be using AI as a tool because whoever employs you in whatever sector you go into is going to want to get five to 10 employees out of you. And you need to be able to show up to that interview and say, I can produce and I can produce 10 people of work because I'm that good at utilizing AI to make myself more productive in every single facet of everything that I do. And based on that job description, here are the eight tools that I'm going to use so that you're hiring 10 people instead of hiring one person when you hire me. Like, that's what I would tell you. Like, I can't speak to the job, but like, no matter what the job is, I can almost guarantee you that you can utilize that approach.

1:07:27Chris Camillo:And what do you tell your kids to make sure that they're prepared to go into the workforce and make their own living? pretty much don't tell them anything because they don't listen to anything i tell them so i don't even try anymore i try to get other people to tell my kids i don't know but not me why not it's funny because this episode will get a few hundred thousand views and every person will be listening intently at every word you say for my kids my kids are now at an age they're 15 you have to put subway surfer on the lower half of this and make it like a vertical have you seen those like the brain rot.

1:08:01Maybe. Take talks where it's, you got to change scenes. Yeah. You have like some video playing on the lower half and they can watch it. I hope you guys get to experience this for yourself someday, but, but there is nothing that you can do to win the approval of your kid. There's just nothing that you can do, at least not at this age when they're in high school. So like my kids bring friends over to the house and their friends are starting to come over to me. Like, Mr. Camillo, we saw your video. I love this. I love this. Like, like they're watching, They're learning finance. They're learning stuff.

1:08:29And like my kids, nothing. Nothing. They want nothing to do with it. And I'm totally fine with that.

1:08:37Chris Camillo:That sounds like an act though, right? No. Like if their buddies come over and they're like, can we get an autograph? And the kids are like, I don't know. I am just a big idiot. I'm just a big idiot for them. No, no, no, no. Their friends are legitimately watching. Yeah. You know what's shocking to me? I was such a finance nerd when I was a kid. But I was the only finance nerd, maybe in the whole world at that time. This is going back to the late 80s, you know, early 90s. Now, like, yeah, I told you guys a story. I used to like touch tone trade options trading at college in the basement of SMU on a payphone.

1:09:12It would take me 20 minutes to place one trade. I mean, now these kids are 12, 13, 14. They're studying trading. Like, dude, that is actually a good piece of information right there, like for Robinhood. Yeah. Like if that doesn't get you psyched on Robin Hood, I don't know what will, because being like this gritty, having like a like a like a side gig, like investing is part of the culture of being young now, especially for young males. And it's like a cool thing. If you don't do it, it's almost like, wait, you're not doing this. You're not trading.

1:09:48Chris Camillo:You know, it's an interesting concept. A lot of people talk about what age to give their kid a phone. At what age do you give your kid the access to invest? I wanted my kids investing when they were way younger. They just wouldn't take on to it. They just wouldn't do it. So I started accounts for them. I'm crushing it in their accounts. They're doing great. Dude, they're up 5x in two years since I started their accounts. Yeah. But, um, and they don't care. They don't check it. They don't want to know how much money they have. They don't even care about, I mean, my daughter, my son doesn't even care about money.

1:10:25He's just, he, he, he, he plays football. He plays Madden when he's not playing football and he, he plays guitar and sings country music. He just doesn't care about money. Do you pay for him when he goes out with his friends and he wants to go get a lunch? Do you fund his life? Kind of. Because. With limits, with reasonable limits, right? So, and that's a parent problem. You always, you're always kind of, kind of arguing with yourself over what's appropriate, what's not appropriate. Especially if you live in a wealthy neighborhood and you have to have that balance of we chose to live here and this is how people live.

1:11:04These are the restaurants that the kids go to. These are the things that they do. And like, you don't want your kid not to be able to engage socially and culturally in the world that you move them into. So you have to make that choice as a parent that, hey, like you have to balance. Like, so yeah, you kind of have to, to some extent. Like the thing that I've talked against my whole life, which is trust funds. I think trust funds are like the most evil, terrible thing that like you just can never do a trust fund for a kid. But now the world is changing. Our world is changing to the point where no one used to talk about trust funds.

1:11:39Now it's like you have a hundred trillion dollars that are being transferred. Will there become a point in the next 10 years? I think there will be where if you are a kid that is coming into the world in their 20s with no money and maybe just a bunch of debt from college, you're not starting at the same level as everyone else. You're starting like 10 levels below everyone else. So does having some sort of nominal starting point become just the absolute norm over the next 10 years? I know it sounds crazy, but, but like, so the house next to me is for sale right now in my neighborhood. And I'm friends with the real estate broker.

1:12:20And I'm like, Hey, you sell it yet? Like, tell me who's moving in, like who's looking at it. And then I'm like, it's so expensive. I'm like, who can afford to buy these homes now? Because when I bought my home, it was 4X cheaper, you know, 12 years ago. Whatever your thing, it could be anything. Canva helps you make that thing a thing. Canva is a simple online tool thing. It's a way to design with our magic AI tool things. You can social media your thing, generate images or videos of your thing, make decks for presentations to show your thing. Whatever needs to be done for your thing, Canva can make it an even better and bigger thing.

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1:13:17Chris Camillo:Get the Unreal College Deal. Everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last, ends June 30th. Terms at aka.ms slash college PC. He's like, let me tell you something. Every single person I've shown that house to is getting money from their parents. Every single one. He goes, there's not one person that's looking at that house that's not getting help. So it's just like, it's become like a norm.

1:13:53Chris Camillo:I sold my house recently, actually, in LA. It was the same situation. all multiple there were multiple offers on it but all were receiving assistance from their parents and their parents wanted to give their kids either a leg up or you know big milestone events the kids are getting married something like this and here's a house and i think that's going to be a lot more common for parents to pay for a house than education like instead of going to college let me help you out with the down payment for a house and now you got a place to live i totally agree. I think this is going to get so much worse and it's going to create a huge cultural issue with the haves and have nots.

1:14:34Everyone's complaining because they don't have the money to do this. They can't buy a home. They can't get ahead. Or you can if you have help. And there are there's just two people now in the world. That's just what we've become. That's just how our country has evolved. There's been so much wealth accumulated that things are becoming so expensive because of the people that have it. So if you're starting out and you don't have that, you're in trouble. I hate it. Like I don't have a solution to that problem. How much money should you leave to a child? I think about this all the time now. So I'll tell you what I did.

1:15:14As opposed to starting a trust fund, I started a foundation and I want to grow the foundation to be infinitely large, hopefully a billion dollars someday. It's kind of like my little goal in my head. What's so amazing about a foundation is you can run the foundation and you could take a small salary. The government actually regulates what you can take from a nonprofit. So you can pull some expenses for your healthcare. You can pull expenses for managing the foundation, but it has to be nominal. I love that model because if you start a foundation or maybe start two foundations, if you have two kids, you could put them each as the administrator for each of your foundations.

1:15:59You don't have to have this trust where you have an attorney that's approving things and you're having to make all these hard decisions. You know that they would always, in a worst case scenario, be able to take a nominal salary and get health insurance from that foundation. And the beautiful part is you tell them the goal is to never take money out. But if you need to, you can legally. And it just lives on forever. And it lives on for generations, hopefully. And it grows. And the great thing about a foundation is it grows tax-free. So once that foundation starts to go, you have to distribute 5 % of the foundation every year to charitable causes, to 5013s.

1:16:37But that foundation's always getting larger and larger. So it's kind of like having a trust, but you're involving your kids in something that's productive, something that's giving back to the world, and you know that they will always be capped. So for your foundation, is that where you get the 20 ,000 to 60 million thing in your bio? No, foundation is separate. I started the foundation like three years ago, so it's relatively new. So what's the 20 ,000 to 60 million? That's just my brokerage account. That's just your personal brokerage account. Yes. But then you transferred most of that over to the.

1:17:09Yes. So I transfer basically excess capital every year into my foundation. And then the money in the foundation, you also invest that? Yes. Unfortunately, I legally I learned this the hard way. I'm not allowed to invest on margin or options in the foundation. How do you learn that the hard way? So. I opened the foundation and I get the account and I'm really pumped because I'm going to like, you know, I'm going to grow this account. Like I grow my account, you know, like we're going to have the biggest foundation ever. Um, and how lucky is this foundation to have me managing the money? And we do, we, we crush it.

1:17:47Like I'm doing really well. And my CPA sends me my tax bill and there's like a 200 and some odd thousand dollar penalty fee. I'm like, what is this for my foundation and he was like oh you can't trade on leverage you can't do that any of that stuff in a foundation if you do it you have to pay massive penalties so like i just didn't know i think i made more money off of doing that than the penalties i paid but that yeah so would you then do it anyways if you're super bullish on a trade yeah what if your conviction is so high

1:18:23Chris Camillo:that the fee is gonna be so small compared to what you could make i'm actually when it comes to like like the law and ethics, I'm like super conservative. So once I realized I'm not allowed to do that, I haven't done it since. Like one day I had like just like a few hundred dollars over. It was, they tapped into margin and I freaked out and like I covered it. So no, no, I don't, I don't want to mess around with that. But yeah, so I do manage the foundation's account, but unfortunately no margin. And it is frustrating not to be able to use more. And it's frustrating not to be able to use options.

1:18:54You know, my style of trading is, you know, a few times a year, I get really high conviction around a piece of information and I want to make the most of it. Right. And that's how I make my year. You don't generate 70 some odd percent returns annually over 20 years, which is where I'm headed right now. Just investing without leverage. You have to apply leverage. So what's the reason behind using options trading instead of buying a leveraged ETF for a stock like Robinhood? Well, I mean, they're pretty much the same thing if they offer that right but i can get more leverage the leveraged option though it you know it's not technically expiring so it wouldn't go down to zero for the for the leveraged etf yeah but i want to maximize my leverage around a thesis and that's why you do weeklies as opposed to but you still do leaps like you do i never do leaps i okay my training methodology all revolves around an information window.

1:19:52So it all depends on when I believe the information that I'm trading on will become widely disseminated to the market. So if that's three days from now, then I'm trading a weekly. If it's three weeks from now, I'm trading a monthly. Yeah, if it was like six months from now, I guess I would trade elite, but that rarely happens, right? So like the trade is defined by the information that I'm trading. When I traded the Barbie movie, my thought was that going into the release, all the hype would happen and then Mattel would move up when they realized that Barbie was going to be a successful movie that was centered around their biggest toy.

1:20:33So I bought options that expired on the Friday of the movie release. And I actually exited my position before the movie actually came out based on all the good reviews it was getting that week. So you have to frame the trade around when you think other people are going to come across the information that you came across early that will cause that stock to directionally move in the direction you think it will. Who would you say are the best CEOs that are out there right now? Jensen, for sure. Vlad at Robinhood. Sam Allman. As a CEO, maybe not as a person. Okay, like I know he's a controversial person.

1:21:14And by the way, I do think the best CEOs are often kind of psychotic, right? Like they're not normal people. I would not be a great CEO at that level. I like spending a tremendous amount of time with my kids, with my dog, having coffee with friends. I don't want to spend the rest of my life continuing to level up in that manner. But Sam Altman is a complete nutbag. And that's who I want running OpenAI if I'm invested in OpenAI. because he is a guy that's going to do whatever it takes. He's going to make sure that OAI doesn't leave any chips on the table. He's going for it all. Do you think OpenAI will ever go public?

1:21:56Absolutely, it will go public. So why? Oh, it has to. Yeah, they need the money. They need liquidity. They need more capital. They'll continue to need more capital. They'll go public as soon as they determine that that's the next tranche of capital that's required. And they should go public.

1:22:13Chris Camillo:Yeah, it'll be a trillion dollars. Do you think it'll go more than that? The biggest IPO. It'll be the biggest IPO. I've been saying this for two years. People thought I was nuts two years ago when I said this. Two years ago, I said it'll be a trillion dollar IPO. And I still think it will be, but I think it could. I think on IPO day, it could be closer to two trillion than one trillion with the way it trades. We'll see if I'm right about that. I know that sounds insane. How soon until they have ads in ShackGPT? when it starts recommending like, oh, go to this local McDonald's here if you want a good place to eat.

1:22:45It has to have ads. It just has to and it will. He doesn't like ads, but it will have ads. So OAI did a deal with Shopify. That's a really big deal, right? Because like doing that deal with Shopify means that they will merge the worlds of commerce. Listen, as an Amazon investor, my biggest tail risk right now is OAI and Shopify because if OAI comes out and actually has like a 60 to 70 % consumer market share of AI using that app and a lot of that commerce ends up getting pushed to a Shopify model, that could be a little bit of an issue for Amazon at some point. But I'm not worried about it. That's like years out.

1:23:29Chris Camillo:We like Shopify a lot. Shopify has been a great sponsor of the channel for the record. We use Shopify. Thank you, Shopify, for sponsoring this episode. Yeah, I didn't even, well, I did kind of know that, but I wasn't thinking that. That's a big deal for Shopify, though. Didn't OpenAI also do a deal with PayPal? Yes. I don't know as much about that deal. They announced a deal and immediately PayPal went down. Did they? Yeah. I don't know much about that. Okay. I think, listen, they have like a billion people using ChatGPT. It's incredible. By the way, I don't know the degree to which you guys use AI, but like I'm so addicted.

1:24:03All the time. Like, and this is the thing, like, again, I'm going to go back to the iPhone moment. There's no doubt in my head. My conviction is 100 % that AI is as big or bigger than what 95 % of the people in the world think it is. I use it. I see it. I can't get away from it. I can't even imagine going back to a world without it. Most of the world is just living to survive. Okay. Like the people concerned about job loss, like in the first world, like most people are just trying to survive every day. And like when we talk about that, we do not want these jobs for our future generations. Like, do you really want someone doing physical labor for 45 years of their life?

1:24:46Do you know how many people do not get to spend quality time with their family during those crucial years because they're working 60, 70 hour weeks? That is not what we want for humanity. Will we have disruption that will happen the next decade? Absolutely. Do we need to do everything in our power to try to help those people? that are getting displaced temporarily? Absolutely, we need to figure that out. But that aside, this is going to be the, I think the biggest thing to ever happen to humanity. Because I think 30 years from now, a lot of the people in this world will get to live a life similar to mine, which is I never missed a soccer game, never missed a basketball game or a football game on my kids.

1:25:26Like when I've been fortunate enough to be financially independent because I've been an investor my whole life. And when I show up to the soccer field, there's usually one other dad because it's a four o 'clock game. It's so hard to get, who gets off of work at four o 'clock? It's impossible. So you get a bunch of moms, not even all moms because sometimes you have both people work, right? And so like, I'm at these games. I'm like, this is, I'm so fortunate. Like I've gotten to see every single piece of my kid's life and almost nobody gets to do that. We could be entering an age of abundance and people talk about age of abundance.

1:25:56Like we're gonna have all this nice stuff. That's not what it's about. It's about becoming a civilization to where people get to engage deeply with their family and friends and get to actually experience all of life. Like we forget that most people literally spend their whole life in a cubicle or in a warehouse, right? Like that's - We're in a warehouse. You know, by choice, a really cool warehouse. But no, like that is meaningful, okay? We're going to bridge the entire rest of the world into like this wonderful life, hopefully when we get rid of scarcity and we have food and shelter and things for everyone so that, you know what, your job can actually be somewhat creative.

1:26:41Wouldn't that be cool if everybody could have somewhat, and I don't mean like an actual creative job, but to actually have, do something in your life that you actually enjoy. I enjoy what I do. Most people don't. Like who's to say that we can't create a civilization where most people get to do something enjoyable for their life. Why not? I think AI is going to help us get there. You know that doctor's appointment you were supposed to make a while ago? The one that's been sitting on your to-do list for weeks, maybe months? Whether it's an overdue annual checkup, a weird rash you keep googling, or you're just clearly sick like I am right now, as you can probably tell from my voice, and you need to see a doctor.

1:27:17I know we've all been there. Booking a doctor's appointment has always felt like such a hassle until now.

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1:27:54So stop putting off those doctor's appointments. You will not regret it, and go to ZocDoc.com slash iced to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today at ZocDoc.com slash iced, ZocDoc.com slash iced, and there's also a link down below in the description. You can just click it right there. Thank you so much to ZocDoc for sponsoring this episode. do you think that ai will have any strong effects on the housing market or have you not considered that too much everything will get uh easier to produce and cheaper to produce in time which will decrease the price of housing it will decrease the price in housing i think the thing that ai will also do like right now uh do you ever watch those home shows you know like let me go on HGTV for the last 20 years.

1:28:42Like the renovation shows? Yeah. Or like, like just you go in a lot of homes, right? Yeah. Most people's homes are designed like I would have designed them when I was 13 years old, which by the way, is still how I would design a home today because I don't know any better. Most people cannot afford to hire designers and all that stuff. Now look what HGTV did. Now people at least have a visual into like, oh, I'm going to try to replicate that on my own. AI is going to help people live in better places, right? Like it's going to help them design their rooms. It's going to help them to dress better.

1:29:17There's so many things that AI will improve. AI is helping people improve the way that they speak and communicate via email. Like I used to sit over an email for 45 minutes to frame one paragraph. Now I just write it like junk and AI makes it look beautiful in two seconds. Like everyone's a great communicator now. like if everyone has the capacity to engage with the world in a professional manner because of ai like you can just take that with everything with homes with fashion like everyone will have the capability to like actually express themselves their whatever their creativity is in their head if they have a song in their head they'll be able to make it if they have a show that they want to make they can do it if they want to like they want to be dressed better but they don't really know how.

1:30:04AI will help them. They want to have a beautiful home. That stuff matters, okay? Like, they want to have a beautiful home, but they can't hire a designer and they don't know how to do it. AI is going to help them do that. It will also help them build homes cheaper and better, by the

1:30:19Chris Camillo:way. Now, what about in the short term for helping home affordability? They just floated the 50-year mortgage. They also floated mortgage portability to be able to take it from one to another, which I personally, I never think that's going to be able to happen. But what are your thoughts? I mean, the 50-year mortgage, it's dumb. I mean, it's optional. On paper, I think the 50-year mortgage can be good. I think I come from a premise of we should borrow all the money we can at a low interest rate and reinvest it at a higher rate. And that's been my life. I think that's like the financial pyramid of life is people that give their money away and then other people take their money and make more money with it.

1:31:05So I like the idea of people being able to actually just take out big loans at low guaranteed interest rates by the government. But the problem is most people won't do that, right? They're not going to reinvest that money. They're just going to take out a bigger loan and they're never going to get equity from it because people have bad habits. So I think long term it will be detrimental. And I would I hope it doesn't happen.

1:31:35Chris Camillo:It seems like people are getting very fed up with the system. I think New York was a prime example of this. Mom Domi got elected. It's a sign that a lot of young people feel like they're priced out of the market, they're priced out of the housing market. Incomes have not kept up with expenses. And so it seems like they're looking for any sort of solution that's out there. Do you think there is a solution? No, I don't think that's the solution. The solution is to build more houses, if anything. We all know what the, everybody knows the solution, build more houses, right? Like we know what the solution is.

1:32:05We just got to actually do it. But why do they make it so hard to build more houses? I mean, people don't want the houses next to them sometimes, right? Like nobody wants a fourplex next to a single family home. Also, you have all kinds of, you know, safety thing. I mean, look at all the stuff we build into a house for safety. that gets like taken off right away. You know, like you have to have a banister here and then you take it off. You have to do this. Like we become over-regulated. It's just what happens in a mature society. We become over-regulated. Things become overly expensive. And I'm not sure how we back out of that, honestly.

1:32:42I don't have the answer for that other than boomers have too many houses and maybe we tax having more than one house in a different way.

1:32:55Chris Camillo:You know, Las Vegas does it really interesting. So in Las Vegas, you could have one property as a primary residence. And on that primary, you have to claim it every year. The property taxes are capped and they don't go up more than a certain amount. But on an investment property or a second or third home, whatever it might be, if it's not your primary, they could increase your property taxes at a much higher rate. So instead of it being a 2 % increase, they could increase it 6%. Let's just say it seems like a fair system overall. I think the big issue with taxes, again, is that we don't spend the money right.

1:33:30So no one wants to pay more taxes because you don't feel like it's going to be spent correctly to help people. But if you have to have more taxes, I can wrap my head around the luxury tax thing. I really can, whether it's a second home or certain items or beyond a certain degree. Maybe that's part of the solution.

1:33:51Chris Camillo:but again what are you going to do with that money nothing exactly it's gonna go no it's gonna go into the abyss my god it's gonna get squandered i always thought it'd be cool i think about taxes all the time and like i would if i had like nine lives i would absolutely be a politician and try to be a mr smith goes to washington for one of them i'd probably get crushed immediately I had this idea like, what if you had this billionaire tax or millionaire tax that everybody hates and I hate it too. But what if you had that tax at whatever level it gets kicked in at and you give control over how that money gets spent by the consortium of those that pay into it.

1:34:35So it's a government, let's say for New York. New York puts this tax into place. but if you're paying into that tax, we're only going to use that money to do something really great that we can kind of all agree would be a great thing, a problem that we could solve, but we're going to allow almost like you get votes with how much you pay. You guys who are all pretty smart because you're all billionaires, millionaires, et cetera, right? You have control over how that program works, how it gets managed, how you deploy the capital. So let's do something great for our city with your money, but we're going to give you control because we know that you guys will do a better job with it than us.

1:35:10And instead of like coming down on billionaires for being billionaires, why don't we like give them credit and be like, hey, we need your help. Like we need your help. That's a great idea. I know you like that idea. I feel like that you're going to have billionaires that just end up having political power that are going to then put like homeless shelters, you know, or like high density housing way off in the boom.

1:35:32Chris Camillo:Or they're going to be like this area here, our money is going to this park and we're going to make this the nicest park. and we're going to put this nice art piece in the Senate. No, you have to have a framework. You have to have parameters, right? You have to have objectives. And I think if you did it, like I think public-private partnerships are really interesting. Like Bryant Park in New York. I don't know if you remember Bryant Park before it was a public-private partnership, but what they've done with that park is so outstanding. It's a place that we go to every time we go to New York. You know, they have like one of the cleanest bathrooms in the city.

1:36:09It's safe. It's clean. It's fun. The park generates income. It's this like beautiful display of a public private partnership as opposed to other parks that just kind of spiral down and then there's no money to take care of them. Right. They were like, how can we make money from the park and then use the money to make the park better? I think there's a solution. Now, it's not an easy solution, but I bet you AI can help us solve it, right? Like it's, there's something there. And again, I truly do believe we're all talking about AI making all these companies more productive. And we're going to have new industry.

1:36:48And one employee is 20 employees now with AI. Is there a reason we couldn't do that with government? Why couldn't we make government way more productive, way more efficient? Like, why can't we make government great with AI? And we can kind of eliminate all the political banter and all the fighting. Like, there's a solution to government in AI somewhere. And I know it's coming for us. And I'm super excited about it. I hope we don't resist it too much. And I don't think that we can because other governments will, like, will take advantage of that opportunity. And then it becomes a thing like, well, if your government's not using that, you're going to get left out.

1:37:28Right. You have to have an AI assisted government. They're tools, right? They're literally just tools like our government. Let's be honest, operates a lot better today with computers and the Internet than it used to. I have to say, like there's some like government payment methods with like my driver's license and stuff that for the first time ever. It's like really easy to renew.

1:37:46Chris Camillo:Oh, I just my passport. Right. It was a pain in the ass to do like 10 years ago. This took me five minutes to do online and I uploaded my own photo. Yeah, it took them like 15 years to figure it out. But they finally figured it out and it is better. It is helping. AI is moving like 100x faster than the internet. So if we can start to bridge those two worlds together, think how amazing it would be if we had like a really efficient, productive, hyper-intelligent government. How cool would that be? Like, how many problems would that solve? I always thought it would be interesting to have someone campaign under the idea of I'm going to let like some sort of open source AI large language model or something decide on policy for me.

1:38:37Well, I think it would be interesting.

1:38:39Chris Camillo:With the amount of mistakes it makes. Well, if it was, the thing is, it will get better. Early. I may not mean right now, but at some point in the future, that could be kind of interesting because I feel like it could prevent a lot of more catastrophic things that have happened, such as like when, you know, Trump wheeled out like the tariff board and he showed it and it was like crazy tariff percentages. I don't think that's something that AI probably would have cooked up. Maybe it did cook it up. No, no. People were speculating. First of all, better prompting will solve most hallucinations, right?

1:39:14And in an agentic world and the ability to fact check itself and to validate information, like we're going to solve all the issues that we have issues with today when it comes to AI hallucinations, not being able to trust it. But you're right. I mean, AI, even at the person level, the voter level, that's coming. There's no doubt that's definitely coming. But I'm more interested in just at the government level generally. Like, like, let's, let's have AI figure out how to get these parties working together to solve problems. You almost like you need a mediator, right? Like there's no mediators in government.

1:39:52You just people fighting. And that really sucks. Like, that's what really depresses me about politics right now. I was on a Zoom a couple years ago. One of my friend's dads is like one of the big guys in the Democratic Party, and he's very old. And he was telling stories of how it used to be when they would have leadership of the parties just fighting to death for like days and days on end over policy. and then he would host dinners at his house. And they'd come to dinner and they'd have wine and they'd spend all night talking and riffing with each other. And then the next few days, they would somehow come to an agreement.

1:40:35And he goes, it's really sad because that doesn't happen anymore at all. Like you do not have Republicans and Democrats having a dinner at somebody's house, just hanging out, talking about kids, talking about stuff other than that policy. So that when they get back in the chamber, they're all of a sudden they see each other as humans. And they're like, come on, let's figure this out. Like, that's, that's sad. So like, you know, maybe we need AI to kind of be that mediator. What happened?

1:41:04Chris Camillo:Because that always does help when you get face to face with someone. It's different. It always helps. I, when someone leaves a bad review at our restaurant, I always say like, you know, back when I don't do this anymore, because it just drives me nuts. But like, if I could just talk to them, just talk to them, right? And be like, hey, you know, we have 65 employees, kitchen workers, people working for next to nothing, servers. We come to work every day and just to make you happy. And we're trying our best. We're getting caught a million different ways every day. Like there's nothing but problems in the restaurant industry.

1:41:42I was like, we're trying really hard. We're sorry, you know, we screwed that up for you. Let us make it up. But like we don't have to like go to war with each other because you had a bad meal or something. But over Yelp, they just go off, you know, because they don't have that. They don't have that like person to talk to on the other side.

1:42:02Chris Camillo:What do you think is going to happen if the Trump tariffs are declared unconstitutional or they're shut down by the Supreme Court? Do you think there's a chance of that happening? Yeah, I think it's more likely than not that it happens. And then what happens to all the money that's been paid into it already? How do you coordinate refunds? This is why I bought Elf Cosmetics on the dip. I'm hoping that that happens and, you know, they can get some of that tariff money back. But how do they get it back? Who's going to refund them? Who's going to coordinate? Here's how much you paid. I get it back.

1:42:34Chris Camillo:Is that just on like a tax filing? That sounds more complicated to give it back at this point than just to say, hey, you know, we're going to stop tariffs from this point onwards. but what you paid in is going to go into a fund. Knowing how the government works, I would imagine that the government will put that onus on the taxpayer to tell them what was paid in tariffs, to then show the proof that that was paid, and then they get to deduct it going forward. They always put the onus on us. So I assume that's how it would happen. You know they're not going to automatically pay back. They're going to hope that you don't care or you forget, right?

1:43:11Chris Camillo:So you're saying if I ordered a couch and I know I paid a higher price because of the tariff, I could claim on the couch that I paid an extra 10 % and that should be a write-off? I don't know if they would do it at the consumer level or at the company level. Probably the company level. But if they do it at the company level, the company certainly would have the ability to then refund you. But I would imagine they would probably put it on the company to say, hey, how much was paid in tariffs? Let us know. it becomes a big cluster for the company then because they have to do a lot of admin work to then reimburse you.

1:43:45Chris Camillo:Right. So do you think that's why Trump promised the two thousand dollar stimulus checks from tariffs in that it might place more pressure that if the Supreme Court says, no, this is unconstitutional. Trump could then say, guys, I promised you the money. It's not my fault. This is Supreme Court. Places maybe a little more burden on them to vote in favor of it. I think the two things are definitely attached because he announced it. right out there. I think part of it is like, hey, we made all this money from tariffs. Now we're going to give it back to you so that the Supreme Court is like, oh, there's no money left to refund so that if they rule in that way, you're essentially having to do a massive stimulus, which would be terrible, by the way, very inflationary.

1:44:27That could be a disaster. Like if he pays the$2 ,000 and then on top of that, they have to print more cash to pay back all those tariffs, I mean, I can trade around it, but I think that's generally a bad thing in an inflationary. It's the exact thing that we're trying to get ourselves out of. We're trying to stop this inflation cycle, right? Like, I don't think we need to just be handing money out in that way. I think what we do need to think about doing right now, and I hope someone's thinking about this, if not, maybe AI can think about it, is I think we need to start some sort of a fund for AI displaced workers.

1:45:06Like there needs to be something there. We might need to have some emergency procedures in place to allow people to claim unemployment for longer periods of time. If we do get into this vicious cycle where we have a period of time and people are displaced and not able to get trained up for new jobs.

1:45:22Chris Camillo:What I think they should do is put money into a fund that is used towards education of AI. So that if someone loses their job to get unemployment for longer than six weeks or eight weeks or 10 weeks, however long, they have to go through a training program of AI to be able to learn something new. And that should be free. 100%. Absolutely. Do you know how many people resisted computers back in the day? How many people resisted the Internet? I remember back in the late 90s, so many people that I was around were like, I'm just not doing that. I'm not going to get a job where I have to deal with that.

1:46:02And they really thought they could just stay away from it. You can't. I don't care how old you are. You have to figure out how to use the computer, how to use the internet. You got to get on email. I mean, do you know how many people were like refused to get on email as executives back then? It was wild. They're like, no, my assistant will do it. I'm not getting an email account. Like think about how crazy that sounds today. So there's a lot of resistance to AI. It's coming. Everyone has to learn it. They will learn it. I think everyone will learn it. Like I said, we are not going to take major steps that are uncomfortable to change the way that we live and work unless we absolutely have to, unless we're at a point of catastrophe.

1:46:43And I think if we start seeing, you know, schools in China and we're hearing that, you know, 12 year olds in China are basically operating at college levels of intelligence because they've converted their system to AI, I think we'll start to convert our education system to AI. But that's what it might take, right? We're not going to just proactively start to say, hey, we have AI learning in every single school now. We already have evidence that it works, right? Like you learn 5x faster in like, what, like 30 % of the time. But do you think that they're actually learning or do you think that they're just Absolutely.

1:47:17Applying AI in lieu of their brain. No. Have you seen these studies? They're freaking insane. So basically, if you're really into soccer, you are into soccer, right, Jay? I like soccer. Yeah, you like soccer. Yeah, I do. So if you're really into soccer, it will teach you everything through the lens of soccer. So whether it's math, whether it's English, history, like, Like it will literally figure out what your interests are and it will teach you hard concepts in ways that you can relate to personally. So it's still teaching you the same concepts. It's teaching you how to problem solve. It's just using methods that are more geared to your DNA and to like your personality and your style of learning.

1:48:06So where it works exceptionally well right now is with autistic kids. but it will work really well with everybody else too. The reason why it works really well with autistic kids or people that have learning disabilities is that the school system generally isn't set up to like educate them in a way that they're capable of learning but the AI can do that but truthfully even people that don't have major learning disabilities all kind of learn in slightly different ways and we could definitely enhance that process through like personalization. What But it really comes down to his personalization, not to mention the fact that what is the chance that you have the best teacher ever when you're, you know, in a small town in Kansas?

1:48:51Like maybe, maybe not. Right. So everybody would have access to best in class models and education and approaches. Is it any bit of you? This is speculation, but concerned about AI being used to like feed bad ideas or with malicious intent. Like we were talking earlier about if you're just having a conversation, oh, where should I go to eat? These are the things that I like. You could have advertisers or companies paying some sort of large language model to recommend their own restaurant over other restaurants. And obviously that's a pretty harmless example, but that could also be taken to a different degree where you have, you know, covert advertisements being paid or you have a political agenda being shown as though it's like the truth, even though it's more subjective.

1:49:41You see that a lot with Chagibiti. Yeah, AI alignment is super important and it has to get solved. On the advertising front, my assumption is it will be fairly transparent and noted out, similar to when, you know, I was around working in search marketing when Google was created. And I remember when they started kind of, you know, putting those ads in, you could definitely tell. Like there was a lot of conversation back then, a lot of controversy around how they were identifying the ads versus the organic information. I assume the same sort of conversations will happen now. If necessary, I would imagine government would get involved in regulation if they needed to.

1:50:22But hopefully it will be self-policed. The good thing here is that we have like a relatively small number of very large models, model companies, and they have a lot to lose by not doing this the right way. And I don't think they're overly concerned about squeaking a little bit more advertising revenue right now. Like, I think I think that won't be a big issue. I'm more I'm more concerned with like. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more.

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1:51:40Chris Camillo:This is sick! Avatar Fire and Ash, now streaming on Disney +, rated PG-13. You know, someone using AI to create a terrible virus. that's the thing that keeps me up at night as someone who only really uses chat gpt what are the main like differences and arguments for and against the other main ais it changes every few weeks right so it's like the models are all changing all the time you know everybody's really hyped right now for gemini 3.0 it's coming out like any day what do you use if you have something come up and you just pop open your phone i use chat gpt because it's what I used in the beginning.

1:52:24And that's just how it is. Right. Like we get used to using something and then now it has so much history on me that I'm afraid to change because I'm like, but it knows so much. I don't want to have to like, I want my, I want my agent to have two and a half years of data on me. Like it knows how I like to speak. It knows like what words I don't like to use. Like it knows a lot. Like I have a pro, I use the pro model, right? So it has more history, more memory. 200 bucks a month is like nothing compared to what I get out of it. So I actually think the market on the consumer side is massive. When Sam Altman puts out these numbers of how much money they're going to generate and everybody's like, there's no way.

1:53:11I'm like, oh, yeah, he will. When AI could do anything for you, you'll pay out for it. Because it's like it's it's a drop in the bucket compared to what you're used to paying to get those things done.

1:53:23Chris Camillo:So for the people watching, what do you think are the best opportunities today for them to look into or potentially invest into? The stocks that I'm most heavily invested in right now, Robinhood's my largest holding. I think Amazon will ultimately be the biggest beneficiary of AI and robotics long term. The shorter term trade that I'm in right now is Bloom Energy. So NVIDIA came out a few weeks ago and basically announced their new architecture of their new chips. And it's really interesting because they're moving from like a 48 volt power consumption to an 800 volt DC platform. An 800 volt would mean that you could have like bigger pipes going to the chip system so that it's way more energy efficient.

1:54:13And you could actually use like small, like it's just way more energy efficient. Right. And so it just happens to be that Bloom Energy is a company that has like this direct current type of energy platform that is perfectly suited for an 800 volt DC connection. So I think Bloom Energy is going to be probably the biggest beneficiary the next one to five years of data centers around the world wanting to get a direct current kind of fuel source to power their data centers. So the stock is already up like five or six X in the last six, seven months because people are slowly starting to learn this.

1:55:03But energy is a big part of this story, as you guys have probably heard, right? Like there's a concept that eventually the cost of AI will basically just be the cost of energy. The real story right now is time, time to compute. So how long does it take for you to get your data center up and running? And if you can get your data center up a year earlier or six months earlier, because you have an energy source that works now, the amount of money that you can make in that six months off the compute is so insane that you would pay anything for it. You know, Bloom Energy, I guess you can say that would be my more kind of like more of a short term speculative.

1:55:45I don't want to call it speculative. I did a tremendous amount of research. One of my good friends, Xionxu, has done a report on it. You guys can read it. It's on my Twitter. But that's like my big energy play right now. That and a company out of Canada called the symbols TAC. Transatlantic. Yeah, transatlantic. I think that data centers are going to move into Canada, Alberta, and they're one of the companies that's primed to benefit once data centers finally move into Canada. There was a big issue with nobody wanting to be in Canada earlier this year due to the Trump administration and due to the fact that Canada is a very difficult place to do business.

1:56:28So if you don't have to go to Canada, you're not going to Canada. But now we're at a point where you have to. Like you just need to go where there's energy. And so this company, TAC, they have excessive amounts of energy that they can power data centers with in Alberta. Alberta is kind of like the Texas of Canada. It's the least regulatory burdened environment in Canada. So I think that's going to happen here in the next few months. So that's another kind of more speculative trade of mine. And for the average person out there, what percent do you think they should have in cash? of their portfolio?

1:57:06So I think that, you know, I'm not a financial advisor, to be clear. The only people that I, whose account I advise are my parents. And your kids. And my kids. I think, I think a great way to think about kind of portfolio positioning, again, you've heard me talk about this, is bucketing. So you have to bucket your money in, you know, how much money do I need in the safe bucket? How much money do I want to grow, right? In the growth bucket. And then you can call it the get rich slow bucket, right? And then everybody needs to have a get rich quick bucket. That is the most important thing that nobody has.

1:57:50You absolutely must have a bucket of money where you're going to get aggressive. You're going to take big risks, maybe put on some leverage, invest aggressively in things that might or might not work out. You must have risk assets. And every wealthy person has risk assets. People that are not wealthy for the most part don't. You just have to properly bucket them. So I think for most people, don't put any money in the get rich quick bucket unless it's coming from trade-offs you're making in your life that you're not worried about losing. So to Graham, who has what percent cash do you have right now?

1:58:34It's over 20%. Over 20 % cash. And then how big is your risk asset? Bucket.

1:58:45Chris Camillo:10 to 15%. Are you cutting Bitcoin? Yeah, I just count Bitcoin ETF in that bucket. And that's that. Other than that, no, everything else is growth, just safe. Safe, yeah. So like you save a lot of money on coffee, right? I think most people would prefer not to save money on coffee because it's not worth it because they're like, I'm just saving like$3. but if you think of that$3 is growing to$300 and then every single day you're saving$300, all of a sudden you're taking Graham's approach towards saving money on coffee. Because like for me, I don't care about saving$3, but$300 a day, that's starts to get interesting.

1:59:29So like you have to think about every dollar in your life is a hundred bucks because you could definitely hundred extra money over your lifetime if you're investing aggressively. And then all of a sudden you're fine. You're clipping coupons, you know, you're making your own coffee. You're just doing all these different things. I'll wash my own car, you know, maybe I'll just like take the, the, the later flight that gets in a slightly less optimal time, but I'm saving a hundred bucks, but that's like$10 ,000 when I retire, is it worth getting an extra$10 ,000 when I retire to like get in three hours later?

2:00:03Yeah. Yeah. So like when you think about money as being a hundred times more valuable than it is today. And I know that sounds like an insane number, but I did it. And I'm kind of just a big idiot. So like, like anybody could do it. Cash, I have like very little cash, but the reason why I have very little cash, almost like a nominal amount of cash is because I know that I have enough equity. It's not going to zero. So in my mind, I'm prepared for a 70 % drawdown at any point in time, meaning I'm prepared for the market to go down 70 % or at least the things that I'm invested in to go down 70%.

2:00:40What would you do if the market went down 70 %? That would be rough. It's done it before. Like, it's happened. Would you, like, sell the restaurants and then put that then into the stock market? No, I... No, because it would come back. Like, it's not going down 70 % and just staying there. It's like, that would be insane. Right, but to buy more.

2:01:03Chris Camillo:Oh, to buy more? Absolutely. But Japan did that. Japan went down quite a bit and stayed there for decades. That was a different time. I do not see our current capital market, the way that it works, and the way that how productive we are with capital here and the growth engines that we have, especially now. That's just not everything is a teller's concern. I'm definitely not living my life that way. Because like, again, it depends on what your goals are. So when you ask how much cash do you have? I think the better question is like what's your ultimate objective because if your ultimate objective is just to continue living your life the way that you're living it and maybe you do want to have like a decent amount of cash and a lot of money that's invested conservatively and you might not even need to have like a high-risk bucket like if you don't if you wouldn't live any differently if you came into 10 million dollars then what is the point of putting your money at risk to earn$10 million.

2:02:01There's no point in doing it. So it always starts with what your objective is. What is my objective to build a billion dollar foundation? The only way that I'm going to do that is by taking big swings at things I have high conviction in, hopefully making a lot of money, getting it in the foundation, right? So like my objective is different than yours and probably different than Graham's. So like you just got to know what the objective is.

2:02:22Chris Camillo:You said that you really enjoyed our talk with Sahil Bloom about wealth. Yeah. What's something that you've noticed when it comes to that? What have you found as you've made more money? There's definitely a sweet spot for wealth. You don't want to have too little and you don't want to have too much, but they're equally uncomfortable on both sides. Probably the most depressing days I've had in my life are the days that I've, shortly after I've made a tremendous amount of money, like a tremendous amount of money, money that I never thought would, I could ever make in my lifetime, whether it's due to an exit in a company or an insane few months in the stock market because you see your account get inflated and you look at that number and you're excited for like a few hours to maybe a day and then it hits you that you just achieved something that you've been trying to achieve for so long and you're just like it's not what you thought it was right like it's it's it's just really not what you thought it was and the reason why i'm saying that is because i've already hit the sweet spot, right?

2:03:21So like early on, it was that great. Like when you go to becoming non-financially independent to becoming financially independent, that is the biggest high in the world. It opens up your entire life to spend with family, to spend with friends, to travel, not to have to think about what you want to order when you're at a restaurant. Like that is, that is like living life at its very best. To actually get to that point in life is so amazing. And that's what I want for everyone in the world. But once you hit that, you go above it and it's like, not what you think. Not only is it not what you think, it's like the opposite of what you think.

2:04:01I'll give you the perfect example. Like the last few years, we started traveling on spring break to these resorts that are like 2 ,800 a night, you know, 3 ,000 a night, stuff like that, right? With our kids and stuff. And they're so nice. It's like the nicest resorts in the entire world. And we get there and you have people that are just like bowing to you and any little thing that you need. And everything is so gorgeous and beautiful. And the food is, everything's perfect. And after a few days, you're like, this kind of sucks. It's like, this is like, if this is what it's like, it's not fun.

2:04:37It's like, you've gotten to a point where there's, there's no energy. And I told my wife recently, I'm like, I'm done with that. Like, but you know what really stinks? is that once you've, there are some good things about that, that once you go back, you're like, oh man, this is fun. But man, you've kind of experienced this ultra luxury that once you've experienced it, now you have an issue with just regular good stuff. And so that's why I call it the sweet spot. You want to get in there and stay in there. Like I know everybody wants to like do all this crazy stuff with all this excess money. But like when you're having, like having conversations with, you're in a room of people that are just ultra, ultra wealthy, they kind of suck.

2:05:24You know, like, I hate to say that, but like, for the most part, they kind of suck. I kind of pride myself as spending all, almost all of my time just being normal, like with normal, regular, real people doing real things. Like that's why I go to a coffee shop every day and just hang out and talk to strangers and just like you get in these certain circles and it gets weird. How do you know if you're in the sweet spot? That's a great question. First of all, I think it's different for everyone, right? Like, so my sweet spot might be, I know you're going to want a number, right? Like you're going to want a number.

2:06:03So the number for me used to be, it used to be 10 million. I thought like nobody needs more than$10 million. Now we're in such an inflationary, scary environment that maybe you need to rethink that number. I don't know, but that's traditionally, that was always the number for me. I was like, I never want more than that amount of money because I just know what's going to happen over that amount of money. People just, your life changes. You just, you just, you have to continue to like, so like, that's where the, that's where the foundations are so awesome. Right. Because you can build towards something, but it's not about you just getting a nicer car, a nicer jet.

2:06:45Right. Like, cause I don't know what more you need at a certain point and life really does get worse. There's way more problems. Like I have, I joke with my buddy who has a, you know, he's in the yachting world and he's just always complaining. He's going to watch his show, by the way, he knows who he is. He's always complaining when he does these yachting trips. He's like, he's like, gosh, you know, my, my, my, my AC broke and they're charging me$30 ,000 to fly to fix a button on my AC, you know, or like a pump broke and that's$40 ,000 or we're stuck at this port for two days because no one can get out here to fix this or like he just spends so much time logistically dealing with problems so like there is a lot of truth to the more money more problems i would say more stuff more problems that seems like like a character trait of that guy

2:07:38Chris Camillo:because i instantly relate to that just if there's a little issue like the other day i spent three hours trying to fix an outlet and it's the minor thing it shouldn't take me but i just get fixated It seems like that's more, it's less about the money and more that that's him. He'd be the same way if he had$10 ,000 in his account. And truthfully, he's in that world because he loves the world. So it makes sense for him. For me, I think the sweet spot is getting to a place where you get to do everything that you want to do in life. Like for me, like I'm going to take my kid to the Georgia UT game in Athens like tomorrow.

2:08:17Right. So that's awesome just to be able to do that. Like tickets are super expensive, but I can handle it, right? Like that's, it's awesome that I didn't need to worry about the cost of those tickets. It's also really fun to be at a place where you have friends that do crazy cool things. Cause like I can go on his yacht, you know, like I can go in that guy's jet, but I don't, I don't have the burden of all that. I think there is a sweet spot and life becomes actually almost more miserable above it than it was below it. I think life is worse above it than below. I really do from everything I've seen.

2:08:56And not to get too dark, but it's like when you have literally everything and then you're above that level and you continue to look for dopamine hits, it generally only takes you in one direction. drugs affairs you know like whatever it's just dark places is what i've seen depression right like it's you get to the top of the world and it's kind of a scary place so i like staying in the sweet spot like and i think i think you have to kind of get to the top of it to realize that you don't like what's above it and then you realize then hopefully you have common sense to come back under it was there any other moment in your life that you realized that you were at the top of it and it was a scary lonely place aside from this experience at this resort oh yeah i mean i mean what was the first epiphany i mean it was the year of the pandemic when i just saw my account balloon that big and i was like this is like you just you almost feel like for me and maybe because i grew up like maybe it's like catholic guilt from growing up but like when you have that much i mean you see people talking about there shouldn't be billionaires right i don't believe that by the way.

2:10:09But for me, you, I questioned myself every single day, what do I deserve? And, and for me to be this fortunate to be in this position right now, how accountable should I be to others to be doing something with this that has nothing to do with me? So I felt like a really big weight on my shoulders. Like, like, wow, like I just, I just came into all this success, what do I owe for it? Like, like, and maybe that's just me, but I felt there was even more pressure on me. And that's when I started the foundation and starting the foundation just relieved me of so much stress because now I had a new mission, a new objective that was not about me that I felt was healthy and positive and made me proud to be able to, to put more money in it.

2:11:02And every time I put more money in it, it makes me proud. And like, I developed this awesome way because I'm all about efficiency. So like, I don't take any money out of the foundation. And the way that I figure out how to disperse checks at the end of the year is I just go to my friend network and anyone that I think is kind of generous or like a generally good person. I'm like, do you have one charity that you work with who operates efficiently and does really meaningful things where you think a check that's like 10 to$50 ,000 would actually be a meaningfully beneficial and that you trust them.

2:11:37And then all these people like, yes, I actually do. This is the most amazing charity. And they tell me about it and they're excited. And then I'm like, I just need the name, nothing else. Just tell me where to wire the money. And I just, I wire the money. And not only do I know that money is going to a place that's going to do good with it, but I just actually built a deeper relationship with the person that introduced me to them because that was an important mission for them. So it like, it like, like adds depth to my friend network. And like, they might not be in a position in life to cut that check, but I am.

2:12:14But like, I trust them and they trust that charity. So like, I don't have anyone administering, like I do it all myself.

2:12:21Chris Camillo:I realized I should have reached out to you to invest or donate, I should say, in Ryan Trahan's latest challenge. Yeah, what was that? That was a whole great series. He was staying in all 50 states, the coolest Airbnbs, and every day was like a new sort of thing where you could, what was it, the Wheel of Doom, and a$50 ,000 check would cause him to spin the Wheel of Doom and he has to take on a challenge. That would have been a great thing. And he reads off a little message that you could say. Well, next time, call me. I think the most interesting charitable entity in the world is actually Beast Philanthropy.

2:12:58I don't know how much you know about them. And I know he gets a lot of crap, but they have this mission behind the scenes that is way bigger than just donating money. Like they want to change the world of philanthropy over the next 20, 30 years and like deeply ingrain it into everyone's life. And I just think it is so cool. So that's been one of the big. Why does he get so much hate?

2:13:21Chris Camillo:I never understood that. Like people want to find a reason why what he's doing is bad. Is that because people don't think that it's possible to make a lot of money and then do a lot of good? Yeah, they think you built your empire on the shoulders of common people. I think it's a misunderstanding. I deeply, deeply disagree with it, but it exists. And I do think there is just a complete misunderstanding that a lot of wealthy people don't just want to hoard their cash. Most of the people I speak to don't. They would love to do good things with it. They just don't trust anybody. They definitely don't trust the government, so they don't want to give it back to the government.

2:14:03And they're even skeptical and have a lot of cynicism around philanthropy. So that's what, and I do too. And that's why it's like, if there's not a relationship there and it's small to medium size, I'm not interested in it. People love to build you up and tear you down. I mean, no one's immune to it. Has anyone ever been immune to it? I don't even know. Mr. Rogers.

2:14:28Chris Camillo:Is he? I think he's the only one I've seen who's never been. I honestly don't even know who Mr. Rogers is. You don't know Mr. Rogers. Jack's showing his age here. Mr. Rogers, really? I don't know who that is. I think if he— Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood? No? Oh, my God. I'm sure if he was around today, he would have gotten canceled by now, 100%. Yeah, I. Who is this adult hanging around children all day? There's always something. But, you know, this is, listen, this is the best time in history to be an investor. Like, there's no doubt about it. I continue to be more excited about the next few years than the last few years.

2:15:07Even though, like, the first little bit of this AI cycle is over, like, it's just going to get so much bigger. You can't even wrap your head around how big this is going to get, how much of the world is going to change. And what change comes opportunity as investors. So even if you're just starting out right now, like you have to find money to put into an investment account. You just have to, whatever it takes, drive an Uber while we still have drivers and Ubers. I truly think every dollar you can figure out how to like get through any means, you can turn into 50 or 100 bucks through aggressively investing the next five to 10 years.

2:15:49Chris Camillo:Is there any investment you won't make? No. Restaurants. Oh, well. Well, no, I have two, but they are passion projects of mine. I've talked about this. Restaurants are the worst use of capital. What's really fascinating about the restaurant industry, and I have two super successful restaurants that me and my business partner fully own, but almost every restaurant in the world is set up in a similar manner. And basically, investors will invest in a restaurant and you have an operating group and that operating group will take 5 % off the top before the investors get any money back. Well, the problem is most restaurants will only make 5%.

2:16:37So if you're investing in a restaurant, likely you're never making your money back. The very best restaurants make, let's call it a 15 % profit margin. So if it takes you$5 million to build out a restaurant, because that's often what people will take to build a restaurant out these days. and that restaurant knocks it out of the park, like really knocks it out of the park and is doing$10 million of revenue. Then that restaurant is making$1.5 million of profit in like the best of all best case scenarios. But the management firm took 5 % off the top. So that's 500K just to them. They make their money no matter what, okay?

2:17:26So that leaves a million dollars. Now, investors will get their money back before the management company takes any profit share for themselves beyond the 5 % they already took. But it would take you five years just to get paid back. And then once you get your paid back as an investor, the management company takes half of the profits after that in addition to the 5%. So now you're looking at only half a million dollars of profit that goes to the investor pool. You're basically making half a million dollars on a$5 million investment that knocked it out of the park. So you're taking on one of the riskiest investments in the entire world that is almost definitely going to fail in the hopes that it becomes one of the top performing restaurants and you can make 10 % on your money.

2:18:18Who on earth would do that.

2:18:20Chris Camillo:What was the restaurant we went to with Joshua Weissman? Jose Bazar. Yeah. And how much was that build out? I think their build out was like close to 50 million, 60 million, 40 million, something like that. Yeah. So we looked at this restaurant and it is incredible. It is one of the best places to go on the strip. If you have time, maybe tomorrow, go and check it out. Would highly recommend it. But we're looking at the build out and Josh was saying this build out cost over$10 million. The oven alone was$1 million. It was$1 million. And I was looking at this thinking, it, okay, it's got to be like five or six, 10 might be like pushing it.

2:18:52Chris Camillo:Yeah, it was more than $40 million on this buildout, just on the buildout. Vegas is a bit of an anomaly place, right? So like maybe it was a vanity project, but if it wasn't, you know, Vegas, it's a weird market, right? But even in Vegas, like I'm telling you guys, there's never been a worse time to start a restaurant. There's never been a worse time to invest in a restaurant. The cost inflation is through the roof. The insurance inflation, I pay almost$300 ,000 every year for liability insurance between my two restaurants. That used to be under 100K just a few years ago. So it's tripled in a few years.

2:19:32So we pay more in liability insurance than most restaurants make. How profitable are your restaurants? We're profitable. We're on the top end of the spectrum. So like we're in that 15 % profit. You know, one of my restaurants makes almost almost 10 million. I have 65 employees of that restaurant, Chelsea Corner. And, you know, I think I have like maybe 25, 30 at Milo Butterfingers in Dallas. But these are both restaurants that I'm super passionate about. I used to work at Chelsea Corner in college. So it was me and my best friend going back, Lynn. And we went back and bought the restaurant that we both worked at in college.

2:20:10And like we rebuilt it and it's become a neighborhood institution. And it's a place for our neighbors, our friends, our family to come and hang out. Like we get a lot of joy from it. And it just happened to grow into like one of the best performing restaurants in Texas. So great. We knocked out of the park. It's awesome. But that's not why we did it. We did it because like we really enjoy, like I enjoy just like walking into the restaurant and seeing people I know and sitting down with them. I spent my entire career in intangibles, you know, investing in tech companies and analyzing publicly traded companies.

2:20:43It's nice to have something tangible that people can enjoy. And so that's the only reason I think to open a restaurant is if you want to dedicate your life to it. Cause I'm there every day, like almost every day I stopped by both of my places. If you're doing it for money, you're absolutely crazy. And people complain that drinks costs 16,$18. Dude, the restaurants are generally not making any money, even with the$18 drinks. We paid$35 ,000 to get our napkins cleaned, like enrolled and brought back to us and to get like the mats done and people's uniforms on an annualized basis. The expenses. OK, how much do you think it costs to clean an ice machine?

2:21:26Chris Camillo:Oh, gosh. My guess is probably$1 ,500 to go through and like clean out everything. It's like no. I think it's like six to eight hundred dollars. We have three ice machines. They're supposed to be cleaned every three months. So that's call it$1 ,500 to$2 ,000 every three months. So we're basically paying, I don't know, upwards of$5 ,000 to$8 ,000 a year to clean our ice machines at one restaurant. Now, how many restaurants do you think actually do that? Oh, very few. Very few. But, you know, I eat there, right? And so, like, I want it to be clean and hygienic and my neighbors eat there. So that's a commitment I have to them.

2:22:06But it is so expensive to operate a restaurant. And the lawsuits, they never end, right? What do you get lawsuits for? Oh, you get slip and fall lawsuits. You get, there was a fight at our restaurant a year ago. So a kid started a fight and then these other three kids, one of them hit him in the face. And so they're suing each other. And then they sued us just for no reason. And they're like, oh, well, you should have had more security or something. It's like, what can we do? Like, we're getting yelled at for serving food late. And like some kid quickly punches someone else. Like, that's my responsibility now.

2:22:47Well, guess what? We're$120 ,000 into legal bills a year later. Just trying to get ourselves off the case. And that's something that our insurance is paying for. But believe me, we're going to end up paying for it. So it's like, this is why our insurance has gone from like, you know, 80 ,000 combined to 300 ,000. And it just keeps going up because we live in this place where people just feel comfortable doing stuff like that. And nobody cares. No one cares that we have almost 70 employees, that it's their livelihood. that because we have to pay this money, we have to pay them less now. It's like, it sucks.

2:23:25It's a bad business is all I'm saying. Like you do it if you really want to love it and like if you want to become your life, but you do not do it for money. I'll tell you that.

2:23:35Chris Camillo:Well, Chris, thank you so much for coming out. Really appreciate it. You're actually here because we're doing a meetup for the index and really happy you're able to join. For those unaware, by the way, we meet quarterly. It's all for like business owners, high end entrepreneurs, investors, things like this. We meet up quarterly monthly Zoom calls. If you're interested in joining that, by the way, you're our honorary member. The link is down below in the description. I'm glad you're able to make it out to Vegas. It's awesome. We had a Zoom and I talked about robots for a few hours and I thought it was awesome.

2:24:11You got everybody very hyped. I'm hyped and robots, man. The robots are coming. They are definitely coming, just not as quickly as people think they're coming. But they're coming, and I think that will be the biggest thing to happen to our economy in our lifetime. I look forward to it. Well, thank you again. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you guys for watching. Also, you may notice it looks a little bit different in here. Yeah. So I don't know if we're going to reveal quite yet why it looks different, but it looks a little bit different. The members now. Hopefully it looks better.

2:24:45The members already know. We did a members video. All right. Well, we moved the podcast studio. There we go. I shared it. Thank you guys for watching. Till next time. See ya.

2:24:57Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for$15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three-month plan, equivalent to$15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. Default terms at mintmobile.com.