Can you really do what you love?

0:00Thanks so much to everybody who pre-ordered our new Planet Money book. It's in stores now. The poster for pre-orders will ship soon. But to get it, you need to fill out a form on our book website so we know where to send it. If you pre-ordered, send us an email to planetmoneyatnpr.org and we'll send you a link. Email planetmoneyatnpr.org by Friday, April 17th. And thanks for the support. N.P.R.

0:35A lot of us have probably been in a position where we don't love our work. Last year, about a third of American workers aged 25 to 54 were not satisfied with their jobs. That's according to a survey by the Conference Board. Often, we work for a paycheck, not passion. Yeah, a lot of people have a career they hate because for them it was the safe option, the sure thing. Bill Gurley is a renowned former venture capitalist who sees this and thinks, we've got to stop pressuring young people into chasing predictable, high-paying jobs like, you know, lawyers or management consultants just because they seem secure.

1:13Bill Gurley:It is both possible and can be probable to take whatever it is you love to do in your life and turn it into a career. This is The Indicator from Planet Money. I'm Adrian Ma. And I'm Darian Woods. Today on the show, can everybody do what they love? We learn about the ingredients needed to make passion pay, and we ask whether it's truly possible for everybody. This message comes from Grainger. This is the story of The One. As a maintenance supervisor at a manufacturing facility, he knows keeping the line up and running is a top priority. That's why he chooses Grainger. Because when a drive belt gets damaged, Grainger makes it easy to find the exact specs for the replacement product he needs.

2:00And next day delivery helps ensure he'll have everything in place and running like clockwork. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com or just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get it done. This message comes from Schwab. At Schwab, you can get everything from self-directed investing to full service wealth management, all in one place. No matter your investing goal, life stage, amount to invest, or know-how, you can invest your way with Schwab. This message comes from ID Tech. ID Tech is where kids 7 to 17 find their people. The Camp Crunch Labs IRL, BattleBots, and Game Design people. Visit IDTech.com and use code IDTech to save$150.

2:45Bill Gurley loved computers as a kid. He had a Commodore VIC-20, which he plugged into his TV. He then went to work as a computer scientist, onto Wall Street later, analyzing tech companies. And finally, he did what he really loved, working as a venture capitalist, investing early in companies like Zillow, OpenTable, and Uber.

3:06Bill Gurley:There were two stops before I made it to the place that was my dream job. And in 2018, Bill was asked to give a speech at the University of Texas at Austin. So if you only got one shot and then it's all over, why not do what makes you most happy? In this speech, Bill told stories of how people like Bob Dylan and Shake Shack founder Danny Meyer made it. And he pulled out some common threads, which he put in his book Running Down a Dream. Chase your curiosity, so find this thing that you love, and then become a continuous learner. Danny Meyer had a very well-paying job in sales, and he was preparing to become a lawyer, even though he didn't like law.

3:48And the night before his LSAT, his uncle asked him why he didn't just do what he'd been thinking about doing his whole life, opening a restaurant. In his world, doing what he loved was totally foreign. Bill says Danny's peers at the private Trinity College were all going into insurance, banking, medicine or law, predictable, high-paying careers.

4:10Bill Gurley:If you're going to go study this thing and just love it forever, ever, that can't feel tedious. That has to feel free almost. Danny Meyer quit his job and took an eight-week course in restaurant management, which brings us to Bill's second piece of advice, finding mentors. In Danny's case, he worked under experienced chefs. And Bill's third principle is embracing your peers. I think a lot of people, when they're climbing the career ladder, they feel like they're just competing with every single person that's around them. And I think if you can let go of that mentality of competition, you will find that having a group of people that all share the same goal, constantly sharing ideas, constantly sharing their network, and providing emotional support for one another in a way a mentor couldn't because you can be a lot more vulnerable with peers.

5:04Yeah, like I went to a monthly podcast meetup group early on in my podcasting career, and that was pretty helpful. But to find that peer group, to get exposure to opportunities, often you have to move, which is Bill's fourth point.

5:19Bill Gurley:If you can go to one of these places that is the epicenter of that field, you know, songwriters in Nashville, film, you know, business in Hollywood. Like, it's remarkable the number of chance meetings you can have and where those chance meetings can lead. Bill's final piece of advice is to give back, like mentoring others. So let's recap. Bill's career advice is to find what you're really curious about and then continuously learn. That means going to where the action is and finding mentors and finding peers and giving back. I got to admit that I wasn't convinced by Danny Meyer's story about becoming a restaurateur.

6:00Because here's an important thing. Danny went to prep school and a private college. He had a high-paying job and could borrow from his wealthy family. Yeah, I asked Bill about this. What about people who don't have the luxury to be able to fail?

6:14Bill Gurley:Yeah. If you simply can't move, if you can't leave your job because you're living right on the edge of that paycheck, I mean, that's a scenario where, you know, I'm not sure I can be helpful. But if you have a little bit of flexibility, I think you may find that you have a passion for something else and you may be able to slowly work your way towards it. Now, these ideas like moving to the epicenter are common themes in a lot of successful people's lives, but many people might have worked just as hard and failed. Not everyone can be, say, a successful movie scriptwriter. Robert Frank is an economist who co-wrote The Winner-Take-All Society, why the few at the top get so much more than the rest of us.

6:58Bill Gurley:More and more, technology enables people to extend their reach. So if you were a good storyteller, maybe you had a group of friends that liked to listen to you. Now, though, if you're a good storyteller, you might have to be among the very top scriptwriters for anyone to watch your movies. There really is no need to watch second-rate films. Uh, once the film's in the can, it doesn't cost any more to show a good film than to show a bad film. The best films get screened all over the world, but movies that are just so-so barely get watched. Robert says if you choose to work in a winner-take-all industry like entertainment or as a software entrepreneur, then just being average won't have much of a payoff.

7:47So is it just a matter of working harder than everyone else to succeed?

7:51Bill Gurley:The answer is no, but it's even more extreme than the question implies. Let's suppose you're the very best among all the world's population at what you do, and you work harder than anyone else. Will you succeed? And the answer there is not necessarily. Robert has modeled simulations where someone is at the top 99.9th percentile of talent and effort, but only at the 50th percentile of luck. He's not going to win that contest because there'll be somebody else who's almost as talented, almost as hardworking, and is luckier than he was. So we pose this to Bill Gurley. Do you think luck might play a role in people's careers that maybe should be added as an extra principle?

8:41Bill Gurley:Well, there's a famous phrase that luck is when preparation meets opportunity. I think you maximize this luck. So the broader your network, the more peers you have, the more you've read, if you're in the epicenter, all those things tend to increase the probability of a chance meeting that you might not have if you weren't doing all those things, right? And I think you can put yourself in a position to be more exposed to luck. Now, there is something we should talk about here called survivorship bias. You know, the people who give commencement speeches are people like Bill Gurley, the ones who've succeeded at doing what they love.

9:22But the ones who didn't succeed, the ones who failed, they aren't being asked to give speeches. What do you have to say about survivorship bias and whether we should temper people's expectations that they may be able to succeed in doing something they love?

9:37Bill Gurley:Yeah. The area that I'd say I think I have confidence has broad applicability is that if you can get in the lane you love, you're going to be more fulfilled in your life. So should you choose a career you love? Economist Robert Frank actually agrees with Bill on this. I think choosing the task that you like makes it more likely that you'll get to be the best at what you do. It doesn't guarantee it, obviously. But if you're doing it because you like it, then have you really lost? So Adrian, where do you sit on this? I mean, I guess that's a pretty glass half full way of looking at it. Yeah. I think what Bill says is totally necessary, but it may not be sufficient for everybody.

10:22I think I'm with Robert Frank where I feel like luck has a lot more to do with success than just choosing your passion. Yeah, totally. But we've got to have agency. We've got to start trying to make our luck. You know what? I found a four-leaf clover earlier this year. And then we won Best Business Podcast. Coincidence? Causation? Correlation? This episode was produced by Julia Ritchie and engineered by Kweisi Lee. It was fact-checked by Vito Emanuel. Kick and Cannon edits the show and the indicators are production of NPR.

10:54This message comes from Rosetta Stone. If you have travel coming up, like a spring break or summer vacation, Imagine arriving actually understanding the language. Rosetta Stone has been the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years, with millions of users and 25 languages to choose from. Ready to start learning a new language this spring? Visit rosettastone.com slash NPR today to explore Rosetta Stone and choose the language that's right for you. This message comes from NPR sponsor CFP, certified financial planner professionals committed to acting in their clients' best interests. Learn more at letsmakeaplan.org.