Pay transparency. The WhatsApp and Instagram decision. Our beef with screwworms.

21 Nov 2025 · 9 min

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Podcast Summary: The Indicator from Planet Money - Episode: Pay Transparency, The WhatsApp and Instagram Decision, Our Beef with Screwworms

Episode Overview In this episode of *The Indicator from Planet Money*, the hosts discuss three key indicators that have emerged in the economic landscape. These include:

  • The effects of pay transparency laws on wages.
  • A significant antitrust ruling favoring Meta (formerly Facebook).
  • The rising costs of beef linked to agricultural challenges.

Key Indicators Discussed

  1. Effects of Pay Transparency
  2. Indicator: 2.5% - This represents the average change in wages due to pay transparency laws.
  3. Context:
  4. Certain states, like Colorado, have implemented laws requiring employers to post salary ranges in job listings.
  5. Economists have mixed opinions on pay transparency. It can increase wages if employers are below the market rate, but it also risks collusion among employers to maintain lower wages.
  6. Research Findings:
  7. The initial analysis indicates a 2.5% increase in wages in states with transparency laws.
  8. This study is still a working paper and has not yet undergone peer review.
  1. Meta's Antitrust Case
  2. Indicator: $4 per hour - The amount paid to participants in a study designed to measure the effects of reduced social media usage.
  3. Context:
  4. This study was crucial in a federal antitrust lawsuit against Meta, which accused the company of holding a monopoly over social networking through acquisitions like Instagram and WhatsApp.
  5. Study Details:
  6. Conducted by economist John List, the study involved tracking 6,000 participants’ usage of social media and found that those compensated spent significantly less time on Facebook and Instagram, thereby demonstrating competition from other platforms.
  7. Outcome:
  8. The judge favored Meta, indicating skepticism towards the FTC's argument about monopoly power based on the study's findings.
  1. Rising Beef Prices
  2. Indicator: 16.6% - The increase in steak prices over the past year.
  3. Context:
  4. A significant contributor to rising beef prices is a resurgence of a fly known colloquially as the "man-eater," formally recognized as the screw worm fly.
  5. Historical Background:
  6. Screw worms were previously eradicated in the U.S. through innovative methods, including sterilization and release of flies.
  7. New infestations have been detected in Mexico, prompting fears of economic impact, especially in Texas, where potential costs are estimated at $1.8 billion annually if an outbreak occurs.
  8. Government Response:
  9. The USDA has imposed import restrictions on Mexican cattle and is actively working to prevent the spread of screw worms, including establishing sterilized fly production facilities.

Conclusion This episode of *The Indicator* offers a concise exploration of current economic issues, from labor market changes due to transparency laws to significant legal decisions affecting major tech companies, and agricultural challenges impacting food prices. Each discussion highlights the complexity of economic indicators and the interconnectedness of various market forces.

Related Episodes

  • [Are we entering a new dawn for antitrust enforcement?](https://www.npr.org/2022/06/08/1103836051/are-we-entering-a-new-dawn-for-antitrust-enforcement)
  • [Why beef prices are so high](https://www.npr.org/2025/09/18/nx-s1-5534424/beef-prices-record-high-cost)

For more insights, listeners can explore *The Indicator from Planet Money* on various platforms.

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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:01NPR

0:11This is the Indicator from Planet Money. I'm Darian Woods. I'm Waylon Wong.

0:19Did you hear that crash landing, Waylon? Visiting from a galaxy far, far away, the fantastical Nick Fountain. Ah, here I am! Ah! Do you come in peace, Nick? Oh, absolutely. I'm here for... Indicators of the Week! Indicators of the Week! On today's show, we have... The results are in on pay transparency. We have people being paid to use social media less. And we have a man eater. What? A flesh eater. A surprising reason that beef is more expensive these days. All the topics do sure after the break. This message comes from Vanguard. Capturing value in the bond market is not easy. That's why Vanguard offers a suite of over 80 institutional quality bond funds actively managed by a 200-person global team of sector specialists, analysts, and traders.

1:14They're designed for financial advisors looking to give their clients consistent results year in and year out. See the record at Vanguard.com slash audio. That's Vanguard.com slash audio. All investing is subject to risk. Vanguard Marketing Corporation Distributor. Support for NPR and the following message come from Edward Jones. What does it mean to live a rich life? Maybe it's full of brave first leaps, tearful goodbyes, and everything in between. And with over 100 years of experience, your Edward Jones Financial Advisor can help. Edward Jones, member SIPC. This message comes from Dell Technologies.

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2:11It's Indicators of the Week. Darian, you're up first. My indicator is 2.5%. That's the average amount wages have changed following pay transparency laws. That's according to a new economics working paper. Oh, so this is how recently employers have had to, because of various laws, post salary ranges on their job postings. Is that what's going on here? In certain states, yes. So are we talking 2.5 % up or down? I'm going to go with up? Transparency increases wages? I'm going to keep you in suspense for a little bit because a bit of background is that some economists have been a little wary of pay transparency laws.

2:51To them, it's not obvious that it necessarily increases wages. Huh. Why? So on one hand, if an employer is paying less than the going rate for, I don't know, accountants, then this law might pressure them into raising wages. So that would be good for workers. But pay transparency could also mean employers can tacitly collude with each other. They can see that the accounting firm down the block is keeping wages at, say,$70 ,000. They think if we can all just keep our wages at$70 ,000, maybe we can avoid competition for workers that would eat into our profits. obviously that can't last forever but for at least a short time it might mean that wages don't grow by as much so this is related to that dreaded question you sometimes get at job interviews where they say how much did you earn at your last job right because if the potential employer knows i didn't earn that much in my last job then i don't really have any leverage yeah so with pay transparency that new boss is going to have more of a clue about how much you have previously paid so all of this is to say the economy is complex and we don't always know the effects of a policy ahead of time, like which of all the effects is going to dominate.

3:58All right. But you have new research. What does it say? Yeah. So the authors looked at states like Colorado that introduced pay transparency, and they found that these types of laws increase wages 2.5 % on average. Yay! Oh! But it's not totally settled, right? This is probably going to be one study out of many studies. Yeah. This is the first rigorous analysis we've had on how these laws have worked for pay. Now, remember, this is a working paper, not yet in a peer-reviewed journal. So it'll be interesting to see what further research shows. Love it. All right, Waylon, what do you got for us? Well, speaking of getting paid, my indicator is$4 an hour.

4:37This is what some participants in a study were paid to use Facebook and Instagram less. And the study actually helped persuade a federal judge to side with the tech company Meta in a major antitrust lawsuit. Meta prevailed this week against the Federal Trade Commission. First of all, that's a terrible wage, but I think I would take it to use Instagram less. Remind us what this case was all about. Yes, well, it wasn't like the sole income for these people. It was just a token amount they were paid in the study, which I'll get into. But this is a big antitrust case. It dates back to late 2020. The company was still known as Facebook then, and the FTC accused Facebook of having an illegal monopoly over what it called personal social networking services.

5:27The government said Facebook maintained this market control by acquiring rivals like Instagram and WhatsApp. So the government was saying that people don't really have other options for social media besides these apps that are all owned by Facebook or Meta. That's right. And the judge was pretty openly skeptical of the FTC's arguments. So ultimately, he sided with Metta. And this brings us back to my indicator of$4 an hour. One of Metta's witnesses in the case is an economist named John List from the University of Chicago. John List, super famous economist. He's been on both of our shows. He's worked for rideshare companies and Walmart as an economist.

6:05Yes. John List ran an experiment. He got 6 ,000 people to join this study, and they installed software on their phones that tracked how much time they spend on apps. Some of those people were paid$4 an hour to use Facebook and Instagram less. And the result was that people who got paid did spend a lot less time on Facebook and Instagram. They ended up switching their usage to other apps like YouTube or TikTok. And Meta used this study in court to show that it does, in fact, face competition. And I think it's pretty neat that an economic field study got the spotlight in a big antitrust case. This is a huge deal, right?

6:42This was the highest profile antitrust case going through the courts right now. Yeah, it was one that people were really watching. And for, you know, five years, almost five years. So finally got a resolution. Thanks for that, Waylon. Nick, what's your indicator? Yeah, my indicator is 16.6%. That's the percentage increase in the price of steak over the last year, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Beef is so zeitgeisty right now. Yeah, and there's a lot of causes for the increase in beef prices, but the one I'm going to focus on today has to do with a secret war that we've been fighting with an insect, a fly known as man-eater.

7:23Really? That's the name? Yes, it's the Latin name translated to English. Some backstory here. In the U.S., there used to be this terrible scourge on cows. It's called the screw worm. It's a fly that deposits its larvae onto the wounded flesh of cows and basically destroys them. It can kill them. This was terrible for the beef industry, as you can imagine. But some scientists figured out that if you bred the flies and sterilized the males, they could eradicate screw worm. Because females only reproduce once, so when they got with these sterilized flies and things didn't work out, that was sort of the end of the family name, so to speak.

8:03Things didn't work out. Exactly. And in this amazing feat of international coordination, we started literally dropping these flies from planes, first in the U.S., then in Mexico, then further and further south, down into Central America, until we eradicated the screw worm north of Panama. Okay, a real public health victory. I mean, this sounds disgusting, but also very innovative. It's fascinating to me. We were winning this war until a couple of years ago. When the flies started making their way north, now they have been spotted in Mexico. And this is bad. The USDA estimates that if there was an infestation that broke out, it would cost the economy of Texas alone$1.8 billion a year.

8:47OK, so are we helpless or is somebody going to come save us? Do you have a fly swatter, Darian? The U.S. government says they have a big plan. They halted imports for Mexican cattle. That's one reason the prices of beef are going up. They've also employed so-called tick riders, which are these guys that ride on horseback along the U.S.-Mexico border and try to make sure that infected livestock don't cross the border. Seems like an amazing job. When you said tick riders, I thought that was a kind of tick. I thought we were talking about another kind of bug. No, it's a guy on horseback, a cowboy of ticks.

9:24And they're just going to pump out way more flies. So they've just opened a new sterilized fly factory in Mexico last week, and they're planning on opening up. A fly factory? And they're going to open up another one in Texas next year. There's going to be sterilized screwworm flies all over the place. You heard it here first. One day kids will ask, what did you do in the Great War, Grandpa? And Grandpa will say, I dropped millions of flies from a plane. You'd be sick, right? To save the beef supply. Boy, I would love to be a fly on the wall there. Hopefully not a sterilized fly. And on that note, thanks again for joining us on Indicators of the Week.

10:04It's time for breakfast now. This episode was produced by Angel Carreras with engineering by Kweisi Lee. It was fact-checked by Julia Ritchie and Cooper Katzmukim. Kate Concannon edits the show and The Indicator is a production of NPR.

10:24This message comes from the Council for Interior Design Qualification. Interior Designer and CIDQ President Siavash Madani explains the value of having an NCIDQ certification. An NCIDQ certified interior designer must complete a minimum of six years of specialized education and work experience and pass the three-part NCIDQ exam. All three exams emphasize and focus on health, safety, and welfare of the occupants. It's really about the implementation of design. Good design is never just about aesthetics. It's about intention, safety, and impact. We take the responsibility of protecting the public seriously.

11:06The space needs to be functional, safe, and accessible. To learn more about NCIDQ certification or to hire a certified designer, visit cidq.org slash NPR. This message comes from Capital One. The Capital One VentureX Business Card earns unlimited double miles on every purchase. Capital One. What's in your wallet? Terms and conditions apply. Find out more at CapitalOne.com slash VentureX Business.

From the publisher
It’s … Indicators of the Week! Our weekly look at some of the most fascinating economic numbers from the news. 

On today’s episode: the effects of pay transparency, Meta’s big win, and freaky flies and beef. 

Related episodes: 

Are we entering a new dawn for antitrust enforcement? 

Why beef prices are so high 


For sponsor-free episodes of The Indicator from Planet Money, subscribe to Planet Money+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Fact-checking by Sierra Juarez. Music by Drop Electric. Find us: TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Newsletter.  

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