Top dog-whistler: Tommy Robinson and Britain’s far right

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1:27The Economist

1:34Hello and welcome to The Intelligence from The Economist. I'm Jason Palmer. And I'm Rosie Bloor.

1:44Today on the show, an uplifting merger in the elevator industry and a tribute to Rahu Rai, India's most famous photojournalist.

1:58First up though

2:05Ann Wroe: The stream is live Let's go It's really been quite the year for Stephen Yaxley-Lennon the far-right activist better known to many as Tommy Robinson Georgia Banjo is a Britain correspondent for The Economist Live streaming from his car in San Diego, he described the previous 12 months. I was on solitary confinement this time last year. I've come out, we've had a million on the streets. I'm here meeting highest ranking members of government. We're spreading our message. We're forming partnerships and friendships.

2:41Robinson had spent time in prison because he'd been found in contempt of court for repeatedly libeling a Syrian schoolboy. and that claim that he brought a million people onto the streets, that was for a rally in London last September. The police say it was 150 ,000.

3:02During that event, he beamed Elon Musk onto giant screens to give a speech. The essence of democracy is it should be a government for the people, by the people. And in fact, this is a government against the people and not for the people. This is why everyone is gathered here today, is something's got to be done. This is unacceptable. Robinson does have a long criminal record, but despite that, he was still able to enter America, where he visited the State Department that had given him a waiver. He spent lots of time with congressmen, and he also did the podcast rounds warning Americans of the dangers of radical Islam, which he says has destroyed Britain.

3:46What are you actually hoping that will happen instantly? We have the equivalent of a nice organisation who are tracking down, hunting down and removing criminals and illegal aliens who are in this country illegally, who shouldn't be in. And on Saturday, he will be back on the streets of London, hosting what he's calling the biggest patriotic gathering the country has ever seen.

4:16So Georgia, first of all, tell me how Mr. Robinson, Mr. Yaxley-Lennon, is perceived in Britain these days. Yeah, so we actually looked into this. The Economist commissioned a survey from More In Common, and it found that only 14 % of Brits support Tommy Robinson. Now, he is more popular with British men. A different survey by YouGov, another pollster found that 29 % of British men like him, and that's up from 9 % in 2021. So you might be able to see there, Jason, that Robinson has long been a controversial figure. To his critics, he's a bigot. He posts messages on ex-Musk's social media platform, implying that Muslims poison dogs in parks.

5:02You only need to look at the speakers invited to his rally, such as Valentina Gomez, an American influencer who's most famous or notorious for burning a Koran with a flamethrower. Mainstream politicians shun him, commentators dismiss him as marginal, and he's too toxic even for Nigel Farage, who leads the right-wing populist party Reform UK. That said, though, he has other forms of influence. On X, he's got 1.9 million followers, and that's more than almost any other British political figure. But it's very clear he's very, very popular also in America. Yeah, so he gets lots of donations from Americans who agree with what he's doing, and powerful people who are invested in his narrative.

5:48So for over a decade, Robinson has sold this quite distorted vision of Britain that's recently gone global. It's this cautionary tale of a nation that's been overrun by Islamic invaders or betrayed by a white liberal elite. And some people who seem invested in that narrative are Steve Bannon, who is Donald Trump's former chief strategist, has called him the backbone of Britain before. Elon Musk retweets him and has paid his legal fees. He did that last year when Robinson stood trial for what at the time seemed to be quite shaky terror charges. And straight after he was acquitted in that trial, he went on a state-sponsored trip to Israel.

6:31He's also made trips to Russia and the UAE. So how is it that he has acquired not just a following, but a following of such influential people in America? So I think that Robinson is a case study, really, in how political influence is changing, not just in Britain, but beyond. So if you look at his story, he founded the English Defence League in 2009. Stand tall, stand proud, look around you, feel your strength. And that was really a street movement inspired by football hooliganism. It had a slogan, which was that they weren't racist, they weren't violent, they were just no longer silent. But ultimately it failed when it got infiltrated by neo-Nazis.

7:19That probably would have been the end for Robinson in almost any other era. But he found a new way to cut through as a journalist or what we might call an influencer. In 2017 he got a job making videos for Rebel Media, which is a far-right Canadian news website, kind of similar to Breitbart in the US. and that was kind of an inspired move because today two-thirds of people globally consume social video for news. The move gave him a profile, it gave him transatlantic connections and ultimately it gave him control of his own narrative. So all those legal scrapes he's been involved in could be used as evidence that he was being silenced by the establishment for example and I think it's this image of him as a free speech martyr that's really cut through in America especially with MAGA.

8:11And in Britain in particular, where the political climate has it that reform a populist right party is very much in the ascendant, that would make him potentially a good political figure. Yeah, you might think so. And in many ways he has what politicians would kill for. He has better name recognition than almost any cabinet minister. He can get his supporters onto the streets, as this rally on Saturday will show. but what's also interesting about Robinson is that that influence does not translate to the ballot box so in 2019 he lost his bid to become a member of European Parliament in Britain you mentioned reform he's got a positive approval rating with reform voters from 2024 but a negative one with newer voters and they're the ones that have put the party top of the polls So in many ways, it's actually quite useful for Nigel Farage to distance himself from Robinson.

9:08It makes him look more mainstream, and it's not necessarily what the voters want. There's a few other things as well. So Robinson loves Donald Trump. He is his absolute hero, but Trump is really unpopular in Britain. And as well as that, the new media ecosystem, which skews right wing in America, is fracturing because of the wars in the Middle East. And you spoke with Mr. Robinson ahead of this rally on Saturday. Tell me what that was like, what struck you about the conversation. Yeah, what struck me was how riled up he was. So he told me that he thought the British people have had enough. He promised there would be huge numbers on Saturday, though he was skeptical that we, as members of the mainstream media, would tell the truth about them.

9:56And what struck me as well was the huge gulf in perception between how the media perceives him and how he sees himself. So he insisted that he was under pressure from those with more extreme views to go even further in his stances. He did offer me a press pass, so I'm hoping to have the opportunity to see for myself on Saturday, but we will see if he comes through with that. And so whether you're in the press gaggle or not, what do you expect we'll see at this rally? So we will see quite a few international faces. Glenn Beck, the American talk radio host, has said he will be there. The government, however, has banned some speakers from appearing at the rally, which is a little bit difficult, I think, given that it is accused of suppressing free speech.

10:46But really, this event is about British people. Robinson has done a very good job at speaking to many who are very disillusioned with the government and with the media. trust in both of those institutions are at or near record lows and he speaks of using a culture and identity a fun day out if you like to draw people into politics so tomorrow there will be lots of families at the event he's given people instructions not to wear face masks for there to be no violence for there to be no excessive drinking i think really what this speaks to is the sanitization of a message which some will feel very worried about.

11:31Essentially, Robinson has managed to frame immigration as an invasion. He says he's not against Muslims, that he's just against Islam. But clearly, some who are receptive to his message can hear that a message of hate. and I think it's really time that we pay more attention to figures like Tommy Robinson.

11:59Georgia, thanks very much for your time. Thanks a lot, Jason.

12:32our newsroom. Each week, our senior editors take you behind our journalism. Dynamic debates, developing stories, explaining what today's events mean for tomorrow. This week, our deputy editor, Edward Carr, and a panel of our journalists dive into the chaos in Westminster. Two years after a landslide win, Sir Keir Starmer is fighting for political survival. We ask what went wrong and whether centrist politics has a future in Britain. If you're a digital subscriber, Insider is already included in your subscription. There's nothing extra to sign up for. And if you're listening for free, you can watch extended clips from Insider via the link in our show notes.

13:18Simon Wright, what is your favorite form of transport? Well, that's a good question. In my job as industry editor, I cover the car industry, which I really like. I cover aerospace, which is a lot of fun. I cover shipping, which is really interesting. But I have a really soft spot and perhaps even a mild obsession with lifts. And the reason is, I would suggest that of all the transport revolutions that have changed the world, the lift might be the most important. It's an answer I rarely hear, Simon. Why are lifts the most important? I think the modern cityscape and high-density urban living, with all the sort of economic dynamism that brings, would be impossible without the lift.

13:54Most other forms of transport, I think you could argue there are sort of substitutes, cars, public transport, shipping. There are overland routes for oil and other goods. But with lifts, I don't think there's, other than walking up 42 flights of stairs, there's no other way of getting to the top of tall buildings. And I don't think people would put up with walking for very, very long. Pretend for a moment that we're in a lift going 42 stories and it's going to take 20 seconds. Give me the history of the lift in 22 seconds. Well, it may not be 20 seconds. Things have moved up and down on platforms with ropes since prehistory pretty much and the coliseum had lifts to move the animals up and down but they were powered by slaves louis the 15th had a lift which was winched up and down to get around his personal apartment but the first proper lift was elisha otis in about the 1850s the two things that made the modern lift possible were one the electric motor but also the safety lift the fact there was a ratchet it.

14:51So if that rope broke on the Otis lift, the lift wouldn't plunge down several floors, killing all the occupants. It would just stop. Now, Simon, we're not just here to indulge your obsession with lifts. Why are we talking about lifts now? What's changing? Well, there was a big merger in the lift industry recently. It was two companies, both of whom lift test facilities I visited. Kony, a Finnish company whose lift test facility is down a mine shaft near Helsinki. And TK Elevator, which is the former lift division of ThyssenKrupp, the German industrial conglomerate, whose lift test facility is up an incredible tower on the fringe of the Black Forest near the town of Rottweil, which is also better known for its beefy guard dogs.

15:38Explain the context here. There are only four main lift makers in the world. Is that right? That's absolutely right. The two that got together, Kony and TK Elevator, Otis, formerly the market leader, an American company, and Schindler, a Swiss company. They have about, I think, 60 % of the global market. The rest of it, a couple of Japanese companies have a big chunk, and then there are sort of independent companies. But these four are the big four of lift making. And two of them getting together is quite a significant deal. So what kind of money are we talking about? How much is anyone going to make from this?

16:10Well, it's a multi-billion dollar deal. the enterprise value of the new combined firm will be nearly 30 billion euros so it's a it's quite a big deal so what's what difference is it going to make well it means that the two companies which coney was sort of second with schindler and tk elevator was fourth will be elevated immediately to the number one position above otis with 28 of the global lift market which is quite a big chunk and why what's in it for them the economies of scale of course that come with that are very important. The way the lift industry works, a certain amount of the money is made providing new lifts, but most of the money is made either servicing lifts or modernising lifts as they come to the end of their useful life.

16:55It's a very sticky business. Customers generally tend to stick with the company who's installed their lifts. China gave an incredible boost to the lift industry. It's a high-rise country, and those lifts are coming to the end of their useful life and modernisation could mean anything from a new printed circuit board to completely ripping out the whole system and starting again. All these lifts are now coming up for modernisation so that's the bit of the business that's growing fastest. And how long does a lift live for? Well sort of 20 years is probably about you'd want to start upgrading maybe a little bit less maybe a little bit more.

17:26Is anyone worried about consolidation in the lift industry only three companies being in the game now? Well they certainly are and those two companies are Otis and Schindler. the boss of Schindler has called the likely outcome of the merger a bloodbath and has promised to get antitrust authorities around the world to look very very hard at the deal it's said that Otis feel pretty much the same way have you ever been stuck in a lift I haven't but you do hear stories of people being stuck in the lift over weekends and it's never ends well thank you very much Simon thank you Rosie

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20:00Ann Wroe: at least a hundred times to take a photograph. He saw what others didn't see. The way a shadow fell on a wall, the way a sari fell as a woman passed him. He noted too when a businessman went walking past looking proud and besuited and self-satisfied just at the same moment as a ragged beggar passed going in the opposite direction. And he snapped that very telling portrait. and a great many others.

20:37Ann Wroe: He was quite a liability out in the fields too, and it was in the countryside that his great passion for photographing India first began. He was out with his brother, who was also a photographer, and by that time he was an adult. He was in civil engineering, which had been his father's career. and he became fascinated by the way the light fell on a donkey foal in a field. And he said to his brother, give me your camera quick, and he went chasing after the donkey. It took about three hours for him to calm the animal down while all the village children were laughing. And then the donkey, tired, turned, looked directly at him, and he took the picture.

21:25Ann Wroe: It was later published by The Times in London, and Rahu Rai realized that he had actually captured a moment and he went on to think, I want to capture more. In his mind, India had had too much of the sort of stuffy, stiff photography that looked as if it belonged in a studio. He wanted to get out among the people and catch the way they lived. he became famous for two photo essays in particular

22:01Ann Wroe: and they were not about the fascination and beauty of India so much as about two great atrocities and tragedies one was the independence war that consumed Bangladesh in 1971 He went there and took pictures not only of the effects of the war, but also the terrible suffering of the refugees. And then the second tragedy that he covered was an explosion in 1984 at the Union Carbide Pesticide Plant in Boval. This became the most extraordinary event that lived on in India for decades. He was told by his editor then at India Today that he should get the first flight out of Delhi and when he arrived in Bhopal, he found that the whole place had the silence and the smell of death.

23:05Ann Wroe: And the event was so huge, it had killed 8 ,000 people instantly, another 12 ,000 were dying around him. It had been so vast that he didn't know how he could possibly capture it. Everything he saw seemed to be outside the frame. How could he find one image that would show the world what had happened here? He took a great many photographs of children being laid out in rows for burial, of the blinded people sitting on walls and dabbing their eyes. Nothing satisfied him. He felt he could not pin it down until by chance he went to a death site and there he saw in the ground the face of a child who had just been buried.

24:02Ann Wroe: The child had been blinded and the eyes were swollen and staring and the hand of the father was coming down to brush the earth away from that face. This became the image that Rahurai captured and that went around the world, summing up the tragedy of Bhopal. But he had always, through his career, tried to find these revelatory moments, just the one shot that would sum up a subject. His favourite place in India, by contrast, was Varanasi, where people went to revere the river Ganges and where the dead were burned. He found subjects round every corner in Varanasi from a priest carefully carrying a metal pot of Ganges water trying not to spill it as he moved through the crowds or young women offering garlands and marigolds to the river.

25:09Ann Wroe: He felt when he was there that he was part of a huge expression of Indian faith and Indian awareness of dharma or duty to accept the flow of life and spirit. The people he observed were finding that by drinking Ganges water or by bathing in it. But he was finding his own armor by walking there with a camera in his hand.

25:47Anne Rowe on Rahu Rai, who's died aged 83.

26:19Transcription by CastingWords Our development producer is Rory Galloway. Our producer is Anne Hanna, and our assistant producer is Kanaal Patel, with extra production help this week from Emily Elias and Eleanor Sly. We'll all see you back here tomorrow for the Weekend Intelligence. This week, our health correspondent, Slavia Chankova, goes in search of the science of human lactation. She finds there's not very much of it, which is curious because pretty much everybody has either breastfed, been breastfed, or both. So why don't scientists really know what's going on?

27:04We'll see you next time.

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