Arlo Parks, singer-songwriter: I want to make music that lasts

12:49Mark Savage:and it enhances the appearance of your home's exterior. Owens Corning shingles offer ultimate protection and impressive curb appeal. Choose from 26 colors of Owens Corning Duration shingles and transform your home today. Shop our selection of roofing products on Menards.com. Plus, check out our weekly flyer and find plenty of great deals happening now. Save big money at Menards. Save big money on everything you need at Menards. Your roof is the first line of defense against the elements and it enhances the appearance of your home's exterior. Owens Corning shingles offer ultimate protection and impressive curb appeal.

13:27Mark Savage:Choose from 26 colors of Owens Corning Duration shingles and transform your home today. Shop our selection of roofing products on Menards.com. Plus, check out our weekly flyer and find plenty of great deals happening now. Save big money at Menards.

13:47Mark Savage:I met the singer-songwriter Arlo Parks at her record company offices in East London. She'd spent the whole morning signing copies of her latest album, Ambiguous Desire, with these big, looping black ink marks. And she was clearly relieved at the chance to take a break from that and have a regular human conversation. Now, we've chatted several times over the years, ever since she broke out with big emotional songs like Black Dog and Eugene at the start of the 2020s. And one thing you notice is that she's one of those musicians whose speaking voice is almost exactly the same as the one you hear on record.

14:23Mark Savage:It's gentle and soulful and conversational. But I did notice a little change. Arlo is more confident, more assured. A sign that taking time off between her second and third albums has allowed her to grow not just as an artist, but as a human being. OK, let's return to my conversation with Arlo Parks. having taken that time off uh which obviously sounds like it was crucial like in so many ways did you have any fears about coming back were you worried that people you know people do

14:55Arlo Parks:think am I going to be forgotten about I mean there is always that feeling you know especially I think in a period of time where there's a lot of kind of generation like generating content and being prolific and being kind of consistently there and putting yourself out there all the time is kind of the you know sphere that we live in in a way but I also was thinking a lot about you know artists that I really looked up to even in recent years making these records that then became timeless and generational because you can feel the time that the music has had to percolate and I was like I want that I don't necessarily want it to be the most giant album of all time and you know be selling out stadiums I want something that lasts and that feels timeless and thoughtful so when I had that in my mind as the goal it made me feel able to trust the process and trust the choice I had made to take more time yeah and I think there's something um

15:54Mark Savage:quite wise about choosing that path because I think aiming for I mean your first album won the mercury prize if you're aiming for that every time that's a dead end right yeah i mean it's just

16:07Arlo Parks:impossible i think and my favorite artists even thinking about like radiohead or bjork like there's the fan favorites there's the ones that are more you know commercially well received and there's the critics favorite and then there's the one like 30 years later everyone's like it was a masterpiece so i think i'm kind of content to have the ebbs and flows and you know popularity or whatever it might be because I know I want to make albums forever yeah that's very cool and I like

16:35Mark Savage:I like that you went away and thought about it and like I read one interview where you said you'd literally done research like went and read books and I think I'm very studious just at heart and

16:49Arlo Parks:you know I was reading a lot of books about architecture and even about cinematography and the way that certain films and certain scripts came together just studying storytelling in spaces and people and that's just where I feel most at home like just buried in my books and just being meticulous I just like working that way were you always a good student yeah always was

17:11Mark Savage:it's true it's true I was always like very did you keep your old school essays my god I feel like my mum probably has them somewhere well you see I thought that and she threw them out so be

17:22Arlo Parks:careful be careful that's funny I need to ask her maybe they are in the bin who knows have you got

17:29Mark Savage:any ideas of what your next kind of obsession is going to be in terms of I mean I guess architecture is endless really isn't it once you start thinking about it yeah I don't know what

17:41Arlo Parks:it's going to be I mean I was reading this Roland Barthes article that he wrote like in the late 70s about this this um club in uh Paris called Le Palais or something like that and he was just saying that he didn't really have interest in spaces without people in them and I think that's kind of how I feel about architecture it's like I'm interested in spaces that bring people together and that build communities and I'm also interested in kind of non-normative or more like transient spaces you know like where like Manchester Warehouse Project vibe things that like appear and disappear and change so something in that world yeah it's cool and I do think

18:20Mark Savage:it's something that pop music in particular used to have like if you look at the 80s and bands like OMD and the Human League, that they are all studying, like, sometimes academic texts and turning that into music. And then there's a point probably around Rave where everything just becomes a bit hedonistic and pop music takes its cue from that. But I love that you're doing this. And even the BTS album, which came out today, like, that's all rooted into... Yeah, it's actually really good. But, like, it's rooted in... They did a lot of deep diving back into Korean folk culture. and I mean it's not particularly apparent in the music but you can kind of hear that they're trying to connect the dots between in the opening song in particular it samples the first known recording of Korean voices which was made in America in 1896.

19:13Arlo Parks:That's amazing. I love that. I love an artist like that group of artists like probably the biggest one of the biggest on the planet paying homage to something like that is really exciting. And even, you know, with the Harry Styles record and everything, I think people are becoming like, bring the studies back. Yeah. Bring the like nerdiness and the detail oriented people back to the front of pop music.

19:38Mark Savage:That's true. What else is exciting you musically?

19:42Arlo Parks:In terms of like other artists that I'm loving. Yeah.

19:45Mark Savage:Or other sounds or?

19:46Arlo Parks:Other sounds. Well, I've been, I've definitely been in a like an exploratory phase again. I've been going to a lot of like record shops as I've been traveling and kind of collecting collecting records that I haven't really heard of and also just going back to writing to be honest I've been listening to a lot of ambient music and just writing again.

20:07Mark Savage:Writing lyrics or writing?

20:08Arlo Parks:Just write it starts with just writing like it's either like stream of consciousnesses or short essays or things that might be scenes in a film like it can just it can be anything

20:18Mark Savage:but I'm just in my collector mode again which I love that's very cool is there a lyric on this album that you're particularly proud of oh probably the lyric on heaven whereas like when I catch a

20:32Arlo Parks:glimpse of heaven I know I can't take it with me and maybe knowing that is closure and that's that sense of you know when I feel am I most joyful my most euphoric and I feel like I've seen heaven for a moment then there is this thing that happens straight after i'm like i wish i could feel that way for longer or i wish i could feel that way forever or this moment's gonna end and i think almost accepting that these things are fleeting and that that's beautiful in itself is a kind of closure and it's something that took me a long time to figure out and be able to embody yeah that is beautiful i'm glad you chose something positive because the one that sticks out to me every time i

21:09Mark Savage:since the album is, my oldest pain became something you resent, which, God, I recognise that feeling, but that's devastating.

21:18Arlo Parks:Yeah, definitely. And I mean, that whole song in itself is, you know, a reflection on the idea that when you are with somebody, you are at your most vulnerable and you're most hurt and, you know, the parts of you that are the ones that you feel most ashamed of or the ugliest parts of you that we all have are kind of on display in these vulnerable moments and then to have that not be held gently or to be made to feel bad about that is like the most crushing heartbreak you know but it was important for me to take that feeling and turn it into something that I could then share and that you know we could all sing together at shows and like find our own little version of healing

21:57Mark Savage:like in the community yeah I don't know it's a cliche but knowing that somebody else has been through it generally genuinely helps people it really helps yeah it really helps have you got a song that's done that for you oh that's a good question i think hmm there are so many i'm trying

22:17Arlo Parks:to pinpoint one i mean i'm thinking of um i'm thinking of the song twilight by elliot smith and like that I think it's weirdly that first line that really captures maybe it's the way that I see the world maybe it's how I feel but like I haven't laughed this hard in a long time I better stop now before I start crying and like that sense of the way that just being a highly sensitive person and the way that you know emotions kind of weave and intermesh and I think there's something about his spirit though that I have always felt so connected to it's like such desperately sad music but like there's something really uplifting to me about it somehow yeah I think a lot of people feel that

23:04Mark Savage:connection with your music as well though I mean I know people talked about Black Dog a lot when that came out and how that spoke to something they felt but even you know the happier songs I feel express something universal and particularly on this record and that's a real that's that's hard to do that's to tap into the collective psyche it is difficult because and you never

23:30Arlo Parks:really know if it is going to connect in that way because i think for me and you can't write it no you can't no you really can't and i think that the songs that do connect the most universally are the ones that feel quite specific and about like one lived moment or experience that people are able to like put themselves into or have experienced a version of it but it's rarely just about like sometimes we feel happy sometimes we feel sad you know it's like not kind of universal in that way what uh are you looking forward to the most with the album tour coming up a whole year of excitement around this music i think just like seeing the many lives that the album is going to take like these stories have been mine for so long and my favorite part is just sharing it and seeing how it how it is in the world you know i weirdly can't believe that like only me and like a small pocket of people even heard it so i think hearing people sing the words back at shows um being able to like take on other creative projects as i go along djing more bringing people together

24:39Mark Savage:just seeing how the album lives out there this is a superb album i listened to it twice on the way here because I came from your old haunting ground in West London. It's been on on the stereo all week. It sounds great on headphones. It sounds great on speakers. It sounds great in the car. You must be really pleased.

24:56Arlo Parks:I feel really excited, you know, and I think just being able to have the time, you know, it's been almost like three years of labour and just to really dial in the production and make sure that every song kind of has its place and feels essential to me and also in the context of the record. I'm just super excited.

25:16Mark Savage:Thank you for listening to The Interview. You'll find more in-depth conversations on The Interview wherever you get your BBC podcasts, including episodes with Artemis II astronaut Jeremy Hansen, the artist Tracey Emin and director Chloe Zhao. Until the next time, goodbye for now.

25:49Mark Savage:Saving money on everything you need at Menards. Your roof is the first line of defense against the elements, and it enhances the appearance of your home's exterior. Owens Corning shingles offer ultimate protection and impressive curb appeal. Choose from 26 colors of Owens Corning Duration shingles and transform your home today. Shop our selection of roofing products on Menards.com. Plus, check out our weekly flyer and find plenty of great deals happening now. Save big money at Menards. Save big money on everything you need at Menards. Your roof is the first line of defense against the elements, and it enhances the appearance of your home's exterior.

26:29Mark Savage:Owens Corning shingles offer ultimate protection and impressive curb appeal. Choose from 26 colors of Owens Corning Duration shingles and transform your home today. Shop our selection of roofing products on Menards.com. Plus, check out our weekly flyer and find plenty of great deals happening now. Save big money at Menards.