Dr Nyaradzayi Gumbonzvanda, UN deputy director for women: Africa must prioritise water over war

0:00Daniel Dadzie:This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:30Dr Nyaradzayi Gumbonzvanda:the highest B2B return on ad spend of major ad networks. Spend$250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get$250 credit for the next one. Just go to linkedin.com slash broadcast. That's linkedin.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply. You know that goal you set at the start of the year? You can still do it. Whether you're committed to a through hike with friends, lifting heavier, or simply walking more, It's not too late to stick with it and make your future self proud, especially with the all-in-one nutrition shake from Cachava. Because quality nutrition shouldn't be complicated.

1:06Dr Nyaradzayi Gumbonzvanda:Just two scoops of Cachava's all-in-one nutrition shake, and you've got 25 grams of protein, 6 grams of fiber, greens, adaptogens, and so much more. Plus, it actually tastes delicious. No fillers, no nonsense. Just the good stuff your body craves. So instead of adding to your backstock of supplements that over-promise and under-deliver,

1:28Daniel Dadzie:simplify your progress with just two scoops of the highest quality ingredients. Stick with your wellness goals.

1:34Dr Nyaradzayi Gumbonzvanda:Go to Kachava.com and use code NEWS for 15 % off.

1:38Daniel Dadzie:That's Kachava.com and use code NEWS. K-A-C-H-A-V-A dot com code NEWS.

1:48Dr Nyaradzayi Gumbonzvanda:Hello, I'm Daniel Daze, the BBC's senior journalist with the Focused on Africa podcast. And this is the interview from the BBC World Service. The best conversations coming out of the BBC. People shaping our world from all over the world. If you're not a little bit afraid, then you're not paying attention.

2:09Daniel Dadzie:We have never seen a people so united. Do not make that boat crossing.

2:14Dr Nyaradzayi Gumbonzvanda:Do not make that journey. Being born in America, feeling American, but having people treat me like I'm not. We're more popular than populism. For this interview, I met Nyaradzai Gumbunzanda, United Nations Assistant Secretary General and Deputy Executive Director for Women at the African Union Summit in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. The theme of the AU for 2026 is Ensuring Sustainable Water Availability and Safe Sanitation Systems. It's part of Agenda 2063, the organisation's 50-year strategic framework. But as you will hear, for Kumbun Zanda, these things can't wait 50 years. They need to be a priority for African leaders now.

2:57Dr Nyaradzayi Gumbonzvanda:And in her role as Deputy Lead for UN Women, she has been meeting with the women of Sudan and hearing their stories of rape and displacement. The women and children, she says, continue to be the worst affected and a ceasefire is urgently needed.

3:13Daniel Dadzie:It's a scar on humanity for us to continue to have the situation we have in Sudan. Peace is possible. This continent experienced colonialism and slavery. For centuries, our people were being trafficked out of Africa. For centuries, countries, including my own, was under colonial rule. But peace arrived in some of our countries because discussions and negotiations became a priority. The Sudan today needs a solid political solution to stop the guns and for people to go back home and for mothers to heal from the rape and the atrocities, for the children to go back to school, to have hope. As humanity, we owe and we have a responsibility to Sudan at this moment for peace.

4:13Dr Nyaradzayi Gumbonzvanda:Welcome to the interview from the BBC World Service with Nyawadzai Gumbunzanda. As young women, we realize that when a woman or a little girl wakes up every day,

4:25Daniel Dadzie:they start by having to wash their hands, provide for the family. And that's where the first success lies. quality, accessible, clean water for everyday care responsibilities. That's the first. And that's not where we are as yet. So we really, really appreciate that the African Union could put the issue of water and sanitation at the heart of its theme of this year. Success for us is also recognizing that water is not just about household care. where it's not just about community livelihoods. It is also about the economy. It is about the women on the market who, when she wakes up every day, wants to spread their tomatoes.

5:17Daniel Dadzie:She may be having a period, wants to make sure that there's sanitation on that market. So it's also about how we are able to give access that reduces disease. And we know the roles and responsibilities that women have. But also it's about the young girls. It's about the schools. And so success for us is more around the better life. It's about entrepreneurship for women. Success also looks for us on the reality that we have that in many countries in Africa, climate change is happening. There are droughts. So success is also mitigating some of those incidences of natural disaster when they happen and the good preparedness that is necessary within our countries.

6:10Dr Nyaradzayi Gumbonzvanda:That's very well said. Now, from the UN data, 400 million people in sub-Saharan Africa still lack access to drinking water. So now that we know what we want the end to look like, what must happen now? to achieve that?

6:24Daniel Dadzie:We met this morning in a session with the president of Ghana, who is the presidential champion on gender equality and on financing. What needs to be done is very practical, real and doable. Government's prioritization of resources, because it's doable, it's achievable for our countries to be able to prioritize domestic resources of our nations to facilitate access to clean, accessible, and affordable water. Because this lies at the heart of care, the care responsibilities, the care opportunities. Secondly, it is also very possible and doable for Africa to also look at protecting some of the water resources that we have.

7:22Daniel Dadzie:And we talk about the Congo Basin, we talk about not building in the wetlands, the naves of our water systems. These are doable. It's just making those decisions which practically protect the water resources that we have for our communities and ourselves. I also so much also appreciate indigenous knowledge that is there. And at times we don't talk sufficiently about indigenous knowledge, which trees not to cut, which areas that should be preserved, which forests are critical forests and why. All this is so much linked. But when it comes to the sanitation aspect, and we look at the resources of the African continent, domestic resources that we have, Africa is flowing with resources from oil, diamonds, critical minerals.

8:22Daniel Dadzie:But at times we find that in our cities, at the bus stations, there's no toilets with running water in a country which is rich with possibilities. So it's how that intentionality, that political will to put resources to what matters most, it's so important. And I met yesterday with the Sudanese women. My heart was bleeding when they were talking about displaced women, women in the refugee camps, those in Erofansha and others. The question for me was how much is Africa spending on military, on wars? when dialogue can be fostered on the table, when millions of dollars can be saved, and those millions of dollars can go to water and sanitation, can go to education and to healthcare.

9:18Daniel Dadzie:So it's about prioritization. And it's also about putting the resources that Africa has and putting its best foot forward.

9:28Dr Nyaradzayi Gumbonzvanda:I was reading that most African governments budgets less than 1 % of their GDP on water and sanitation. So clearly there's no political will from governments on the continent.

9:41Daniel Dadzie:I think the political will that is there starts with just recognizing that this year the African Union has made a decision to give water and sanitation as the theme of the year. That's the first bold step that has been taken. and it's the team to run for the rest of the year. And for us in the UN, we also know that we have UN Water Day and they say there's a very strong focus on gender equality, on women's rights and empowerment. So that bold step to have water and sanitation on the political agenda of the African Union needs to be accompanied by doable, tangible interventions related to access to the services and the availability.

10:25Daniel Dadzie:but also looking at how to engage with the private sector. The engagement with the private sector is important to facilitate the access, but also not in a way that water becomes a commodity which is unreachable to the poor. So the essence of water and inequalities is very important because at times the poor cannot afford water. Even if the instruments are there, the tools are there, But the cost can be so high. So I really feel that as UN women, this really speaks to the core of the mandate that we have and the responsibilities that we have. And also water governance is important. Who is sitting on the table making decisions from the numbers of women in the executives?

11:16Daniel Dadzie:How many women presidents do we have in Africa? How many women do we have who are running the ministries of finance, who are holding the purse to decide on what is a priority? But even when we look at water committees in our villages, we still do not have a strong representation of women. And yet it is the women who hold the household and the community in relationship to water every day for the reproduction of society.

11:48Dr Nyaradzayi Gumbonzvanda:So the beginning of your point really goes to one of the biggest critiques of the AU, which is that when the decisions are made, there is a challenge with follow through. From where you sit, it's very critical from what you describe that there is follow through with commitment of resources and with even selection of leadership from the points that you've made. Are you confident that this year we would see something different in terms of after the big agenda is set, the finance ministers make a decision, the ministers of environment and water make a decision? Are you confident that this year we'll see a difference?

12:29Daniel Dadzie:I am confident. My confidence is grounded on how we start by raising the bar, which has been done by having the issue on the agenda. The second is what the follow-up that we need to do in the support to each of the countries. So as the UN, we work with the member states in the various countries. And therefore, our cooperation frameworks, our relationship as the UN, it means for Africa and African member states, they are also saying to us as the United Nations, this is a priority that we want to have. So my confidence is more on just the political will that has been raised. The follow through, we may not see tomorrow because, as I said, we still need to look at the financing aspect, the prioritization at the country level.

13:22And at the same time, we have seen experiences.

13:26Daniel Dadzie:I have seen experiences both in my previous role as the AU Goodwill Ambassador on ending child marriage that at times decisions are made. it takes time to then build on a critical momentum for the issue to be a non-negotiable issue at the country level. And also, just as we saw, it has taken us time to push for the issues of violence against women on this continent. But we saw the adoption of a convention on ending violence against women. That gives us confidence that it might not be tomorrow, but definitely it should not before, by 2063. Many people, they've lost their lives due to preventable diseases by then.

14:12Daniel Dadzie:We have an expectation that Africa will prioritize water and sanitation within the 2030 agenda because the issues around water and sanitation are part of the sustainable development course. So my expectation and our expectation within UN Women is that Africa is putting the issue of water is part of accelerating and leapfrogging the focus around achieving the 2030 agenda. We would be following up the discussions we've been having with the African Union Commission on how can we have a stronger roadmap for accountability, for monitoring progress, so that it's more than just declarations, but it's declarations which are accompanied by practical, doable actions, including at the community level.

15:10Dr Nyaradzayi Gumbonzvanda:You're listening to the interview from the BBC World Service.

15:19Dr Nyaradzayi Gumbonzvanda:The sun's shining, birds are singing, and all feels right in the world. Until the season changes and suddenly you lose your motivation to get out of bed. In fact, one in five people experience some form of depression no matter the season or time of year.

15:34Daniel Dadzie:At the American Psychiatric Association Foundation, our vision is to build a mentally healthy nation for all.

15:40Dr Nyaradzayi Gumbonzvanda:Because we want you to live your best life and be your best you all year round. Please visit mentallyhealthynation.org to learn more. This is not the future we were promised. Like, how about that for a tagline for the show? From the BBC, this is The Interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world.

16:02Daniel Dadzie:This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews.

16:06Dr Nyaradzayi Gumbonzvanda:It's about what technology is actually doing to your work and your politics, your everyday life. And all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

16:23Dr Nyaradzayi Gumbonzvanda:I met Dr. Nyaradai Gumbunzanda whilst reporting on the African Union Summit in Addis Ababa earlier this month. When I walked into the room where our interview with Nyaradai Gumbunzanda was scheduled to take place at the Skylight Hotel in Addis, I almost didn't notice her. She struck me as a kind mother, thoughtfully looking at her children, who I later discovered were her aides. Once I had finally got my wits about me, I mentioned I'm from Ghana. and she exclaimed, you're my in-law, referring to the first wife of her home country's former president, Robert Mugabe, who was Ghanaian. The conversation immediately took a turn for the connections that Africans share, despite our mostly colonial boundaries.

17:03Dr Nyaradzayi Gumbonzvanda:She recalled her time spent in Nairobi and laughed over a few Swahili phrases with my crew. For me, this was a peek under the hood, a subtle indication of what motivates her, Africa and Africans. This was someone who saw the entire continent as her home and its many nationalities as her family. Okay, let's return to my conversation with Dr. Nyaredai Gumbondanda. I'm not going to post what I'm about to say right now in the cast, but it's as if you read my mind. Because again, the key points I was just about to ask this was about tracking progress and accountability. Would you say that we need, for instance, a scorecard for the end of the year to track what has been done, what has not been done, and how we move it forward.

17:49Dr Nyaradzayi Gumbonzvanda:Will that be a way to ensure this accountability that you speak of?

17:55Daniel Dadzie:Definitely, definitely. The tools for measuring progress on issues like water and sanitation needs to be more than a case study in a report. It needs to be more than an anecdotal story of women on the market in Dhaka that I met. It has to be at scale because we are talking about the 55 countries in Africa. We need to be monitoring progress at scale in the communities. Water and sanitation are issues that are lived every day in people's lives. Therefore, having a scorecard, a simple tool that is monitorable at a village level, at a local subnational level, which can identify key indicators that are there, whether it's related to water and sanitation in school, whether it's related to domestic use, whether it's related to the quality of our rivers.

19:00Daniel Dadzie:You know, siltation, pollution. We no longer, at times, our rivers are drying because also there is mining that is happening on the riverbanks. So a scorecard and a tracking that looks at access, quality, and the different dimensions of water and sanitation-related issues is important. definitely the girls in Africa would really equally want to track around menstrual health because they don't have a choice. You naturally have your period every month and you naturally need water, you naturally need a disposable, you need ways of disposing which is healthy and empowering to the girls. So a scorecard which looks at the needs for different members of society but also tracking the progress that is needed is important.

20:02And again, water and sanitation is a basic right.