In short
BBC World Service interview with Sierra Leone First Lady Fatima Biyo about redefining the First Lady role, campaigning on sexual violence, period poverty, and child marriage, and responding to criticism and rumors.
Guest backgrounds
Fatima Biyo fled Sierra Leone’s civil war as a teenager, sought refuge in London, later worked in acting/presenting in Nollywood circles, and married Julius Biyo, who became president.
Key claims
She says her activism is not ceremonial—she acts as a “buffer” between people and government. She argues underage marriage “indirectly legalizes rape” because children can’t consent. She links menstruation to girls missing about 80 school days and helped introduce free sanitary pads. She denies allegations involving “Joss Ladeckes,” saying she doesn’t know him and won’t validate claims without documentation.
Notable examples
free sanitary pads; campaigns against child marriage; discussion of a viral church-service video posted Jan 1.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOTransforming the Role of First Lady
2:24 to 3:27
Fatima discusses redefining the First Lady's role and her activism.
“including sexual violence, period poverty and child marriage, after narrowly escaping the same fate herself at the age of 13.”
Confronting Gender Issues in Sierra Leone
3:27 to 5:05
Fatima reveals the challenges of underage marriage and period poverty.
“Negativity that is based on people who are so terrified That this woman might come up to contest for presidency Welcome to the interview from the BBC World Service with Fatima Bia.”
Activism and Engagement with Government
5:05 to 7:22
Fatima explains her unique position as a bridge between people and government.
“underage marriage for girls period stigma why are those issues that have meant something to you because in the first place when you talk about underage marriage for me it's indirectly legalizing rape.”
The Scrutiny of Being a Woman in Power
7:22 to 8:27
Fatima shares experiences of scrutiny and gender biases she faces.
“So when they make decisions for this country, I'm never there.”
Addressing False Accusations and Rumors
8:27 to 10:39
Fatima responds to untrue allegations and emphasizes the need for proof.
“But it is a service that I enjoy doing because it actually brings the government closer to the people.”
Faith and Political Aspirations
10:39 to 13:55
Fatima discusses her views on leadership and divine purpose.
“whatever they said, whatever allegations they have made, the day they come out with the proof, not proof by just saying it, documentation, that day we will have a conversation.”
Championing Young Women's Rights
14:02 to 16:00
Fatima Bio discusses her mission to fight for young women and confront societal issues.
“Because these aren't easy topics, are they?”
Fatima Bio's Journey to Advocacy
17:09 to 23:15
Fatima shares her personal story, from childhood to becoming a vocal advocate.
“on the best-selling novel The Other Bennett Sister now streaming only on Britbox.”
Reflections on Freedom and Empowerment
23:15 to 25:46
Fatima discusses her experiences as an asylum seeker and the empowerment it brought her.
“And when we got to the city, my dad was still in the provinces.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Megha Mohan:This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
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1:40Fatima Bio:Hello, I'm BBC presenter Megha Mohan and this is the interview from the BBC World Service. The best conversations coming out of the BBC. People shaping our world from all over the world. If you're not a little bit afraid, then you're not paying attention. We have never seen a people so united. Do not make that boat crossing. Do not make that journey. Being born in America, feeling American, having people treat me like I'm not. We're more popular than populism. For this interview, I travelled to Sierra Leone to speak to the country's First Lady, Fatima Biyo, who fled civil war as a teenager before rebuilding her life as a refugee in London.
2:24Fatima Bio:Since becoming First Lady, she has transformed the role, campaigning tirelessly on issues including sexual violence, period poverty and child marriage, after narrowly escaping the same fate herself at the age of 13. To supporters, she is a bold and refreshing voice who speaks openly about the issues affecting women and girls. But critics say she has become too outspoken and too politically involved in the running of her husband's party.
2:54Megha Mohan:A woman in Africa has to be silenced by all means. A woman in Africa does not have the right to say anything other than yes, yes, ma. And I refuse to be that woman. I refuse to be one of those women When I got married to my husband I never knew he was going to be president So it's not like I channel myself To be who I am today I'm not worried about any negativity that has been said Negativity that is based on people who are so terrified That this woman might come up to contest for presidency
3:43Fatima Bio:Welcome to the interview from the BBC World Service with Fatima Bia. Your role, the First Lady of Sierra Leone, you've defined it to give it its own identity. Do you want to tell us more about what that is?
3:59Megha Mohan:Well, before now, I mean, we used to have First Ladies. I'm not saying that they were not active, but they actually did not give them the freedom to use their title to work for the people. I'm not sure what the reasons are, but before me, most of the other force ladies are elderly women. So maybe that's the reason. I came in as first lady in my 30s and that would be a disheartening for you know at that age to be a retired woman I needed to work so coming back to Sierra Leone and just be a housewife sitting at home was not something that I was willing to do.
4:56Fatima Bio:And in your tenure so far you've chosen to take on subjects that are seen as quite controversial in terms of gender issues like underage marriage for girls period stigma why are those issues that have meant something to you
5:16Megha Mohan:because in the first place when you talk about underage marriage for me it's indirectly legalizing rape. Because if we say children don't have a consent or they don't, they're not allowed to give consent. Now, if you give them off to be married, are they giving consent to have sex with an elderly man? I feel that was wrong. And if we are taking, we're giving them their rights on this side and then take it from this one. I don't think I wanted to be part of a society like that. When the free quality education was introduced, then there comes the problem. Girls who are missing out of school at least 80 days a year just because of menstruation.
6:08Megha Mohan:And if you miss 80 days out of your schooling year, it's like missing a whole time. So they're still not getting the equality they deserve. And that's one of the reasons why I thought, you know what, I am going to introduce free sanitary pad so that the girls will be in school. They don't have to miss school just because of something that is a natural occurrence. It's not something that, it's not a crime to see your menstruation. And if it's not a crime to see your menstruation, menstruation should not be a barrier for you to be in school. You know, and again, through those campaigns, it gives me an opportunity to understand what the young girls of this country are going through, the issues about, you know, why they do have sex early.
7:00Megha Mohan:And it also helped me with programming my campaign, the hands of our girls properly, because I know who I should be targeting.
7:10Fatima Bio:So it feels like quite a political role that you're taking, not just a ceremonial role.
7:16Megha Mohan:I think I'm just the middle person between the people and the government. Naturally, I am not part of the government. I am the president's wife. I do not sit in cabinet. So when they make decisions for this country, I'm never there. Before now, the other false ladies have been very private people. So it is difficult. I think I'll call their own role as ceremonial because they, I mean, they were not given the free will to go out and do certain things. Most times you see them when you see the president. And I am not that person. I have been an activist for far too long to just being a calendar wife.
8:11Megha Mohan:I didn't want to be one of those women. So I chose to be a buffer. I listen to the people and I bring it to the government. I listen to the government and I take it to the people. So that's how we work. I don't get paid for my job, by the way. I'm not on any payroll. So nobody's paying me salary. But it is a service that I enjoy doing because it actually brings the government closer to the people. Because the people see me as the president's wife and they see me as the closest person to the person they voted for.
8:48Fatima Bio:So being a woman in your position attracts a lot of scrutiny. what do you think have been things that people have said that you feel are untrue?
9:04Megha Mohan:The truth is, I mean, I'm not bothered about what people say about me anymore. So you have people who are timid when a woman speaks up because they're not used to a woman challenging them when they do wrong things. And we actually live in a male-dominated society. So no one woman has ever come forward and say, this is wrong. That day we will have a conversation. Not confrontational to fight them, but for them to see the reality that if we can give women the same opportunities as men, we'll have a better nation. A woman in Africa has to be silenced by all means. a woman in Africa does not have the right to say anything other than yes sir yes ma and I refuse to be that woman I refuse to be one of those women when I got married to my husband I never knew he was going to be president so it's not like I channel myself to be who I am today I'm not worried about any negativity that has been said, negativity that is based on people who are so terrified that this woman might come up to contest for presidency.
10:32Megha Mohan:I'm not having a conversation to validate any of those things. whatever they said, whatever allegations they have made, the day they come out with the proof, not proof by just saying it, documentation, that day we will have a conversation.
10:57Fatima Bio:So if we talk about documentation and proof, on January 1st of this year, there was a video posted on your social feeds of a church service. Do you know who Joss Ladeckes is?
11:15Megha Mohan:I have no idea who he is.
11:17Fatima Bio:You don't know who he is? No. So Joss Ladeckes is one of the most wanted criminals in Europe.
11:25Megha Mohan:I wouldn't know because I'm not a criminal, so I will not know.
11:27Fatima Bio:He is a drug kingpin, and he is said to be married to the president's daughter.
11:34Megha Mohan:Really? Well, maybe in another life. They say that they have a child together. These are all the lies I am not going to validate.
11:45Fatima Bio:I suppose the question is, though, how did one of Europe's most wanted drug dealers get to be so close to Sierra Leone's first family, as was shown in the video on January 1st?
12:01Megha Mohan:Again, my videos are on my social media handle everywhere I go in the world. So it's not a specific day to say on the 1st of January. Before the 1st of January, my video was on.
12:18Fatima Bio:Sure. I suppose that that's when that video was posted.
12:22Megha Mohan:New Year's Eve, my video was on. Christmas Day, my video was on. Christmas Eve, my video was on.
12:30Fatima Bio:My video is on.
12:32Megha Mohan:Whoever is in that room is none of my business. My own video is not prescribed for certain people or that people. I don't bring people into church. I'm not a Christian. I'm a Muslim. So when I go to church service, which means I'm invited like every other person, I don't bring people into church. So I don't know who is in that church.
12:59Fatima Bio:What impressions of Sierra Leone do you want to rectify for the world?
13:07Megha Mohan:It depends. You will have to ask the question because, I mean, why would I want to rectify anything? Well, specifically on, say, Joss Ledeckes, I suppose... It is not my subject. I don't know him. So it cannot be my subject. You don't talk about what you don't know.
13:26Fatima Bio:A few of the people that I've been speaking with over this these past few days say that they would like to see you as president of Sierra Leone
13:37Megha Mohan:Presidency does not come just like that It will have to be the will of God I'm a very fervent believer that when God wants something he does it I'm not hungry to be president If it is what God wants no man can stop it either
13:55Fatima Bio:Would you be open to it?
13:57Megha Mohan:It will not be my role. It will be the role that God has chosen for me.
14:01Fatima Bio:And you've chosen the fight for young women to be the mission for your leadership. Because these aren't easy topics, are they? Child marriage is not something that is an easy topic to deal with. Period stigma is not an easy topic to deal with. they come with controversy, so you've chosen to take that on and be the face of it.
14:25Megha Mohan:I believe that the people and the children of this country deserve more. And if I can be that bridge for them to see that they have a future, for them to understand that being a woman is not a crime, for them to believe in themselves and their ability that they can also contribute to nation building, That is what I do.
Read the full transcript
14:50Fatima Bio:I feel as though I've also seen quite a lot of sexist comments to you, what I would call sexist comments. Do you feel that there's been gendered comments made against you, both by politicians and the public, but specifically politicians?
15:06Megha Mohan:If they are not frightened of my presence, they will not do it.
15:10Fatima Bio:You were telling me about a song that they were singing.
15:13Megha Mohan:It's not telling you. That is all over. It was on national TV, so it's not a secret. It was out there.
15:20Fatima Bio:How did that make you feel?
15:21Megha Mohan:Nothing. Because it just shows that, you know, not all men that are educated, they're supposed to be leaders. Do you think men are like that in Sierra Leone? I don't know if all of them are like that, but I know that majority of them are like that.
15:37Fatima Bio:And they would accept a woman president?
15:41Megha Mohan:I don't know if they will even vote for one, but they are not the majority. the women are the majority in this country and I believe that the young people are also very important in this country so I'm not bothered about what politicians say about me because they need to say that to make themselves look good
16:05Fatima Bio:you're listening to the interview from the BBC World Service with me, Megha Mohan
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17:38Megha Mohan:on the best-selling novel The Other Bennett Sister now streaming only on Britbox. Watch for the free trial at Britbox.com.
17:48Fatima Bio:When I talked to Lady Fatima Beo about coming to London as a asylum seeker seeking refuge she arrived wearing a t-shirt and she was overcome with cold and she said she fainted at the airport and then a few years later she was taken in by a family friend she entered the acting world and she became an actress and director in Nollywood. And while she was in that world of presenting and socialising with the elite of West Africa in London, she met Julius Beo. And he was already in politics, but he wasn't, you know, making, he was a military man, already a political figure but not on his way to being president.
18:34Fatima Bio:So she's not a distant first lady and sort of insulated behind palace gates on protocol. Her influence is visible all over Freetown and posters advocating against child marriage and the language of girls education campaigns and the way ordinary people talk about her by first name. One of the whispers in political scenes around Sierra Leone is that Fatima Bio is paving the way to become president herself in 2028 when her husband Julius Bio has to step down. So when you ask her if she does want to become the next president, her answer is, well, if it's God's will, I will do it. No man can get in the way of God's will.
19:23Fatima Bio:And I find that so interesting as an answer because it's, to me, I saw that as a confirmation because I've met a couple of first ladies during my time working as a journalist and almost all of them just give you a direct answer of no, politics is not for me. But that's the thing about Fatima Beyo. She has made sure that this role is semi-political. She does not want it to be seen as ceremonial. We got to spend several days with Fatima Biyo and we join her now at a different location.
19:58Megha Mohan:As a first lady, I'm very concerned about what people say about my reputation because that for me now is something that I will have to live with and then it might affect my children. But now as a first lady, if you say to me, oh, you know, she's a very, very negative woman who doesn't like people. That is something, you know, that will be very hurtful to me.
20:22Fatima Bio:So what was childhood like for you?
20:26Megha Mohan:Exciting. It's the time where your neighbour is your mother, your neighbour is your father. We had a tradition in our culture at that time that a girl can only go to school until they are 12 years old. That is just for them to do common entrance. and when you finish you have to be married. So all my sisters, every one of my sisters went through that. You know? And then when it was my turn, they did all the ceremony and everything and I was just too lucky. By the time they were supposed to take me, the war came and we had to run. So my mum told me to run. And that's how I found myself in England, because I had to run.
21:12Fatima Bio:So had you grown up thinking you were going to be married at 12?
21:15Megha Mohan:He just wasn't thinking because it did happen. You know, the person who has always been my uncle. And, you know, whenever he comes to the house, I'm running to him. He'll buy me sweets. This is like my uncle. And then one day they said, oh, this is your husband. I'm like, what? So how old was he? that time he would have been about late 30s it's a natural uh thing it's not like they don't need your permission they don't need your permission they will just come and say to you oh this person have brought cola not for you and uh when you finish this year of in school you're going to get married it's just like that not like what do you think how are you feeling when they told you At that point, I hated myself.
22:11Megha Mohan:I hated my mom because I wanted an adult to fight for me. But she just did not have it to fight because she was so scared of my dad. When my mom said to me, run, I know that that's the only help she can give to me. Because if I'm not there, you will not take me. So what do you mean by run? When the rebel came into our district, everybody had to run. Because if you don't, they will kill you. So everybody run, people go to the bushes, everybody run to the nearest town, the nearest village. Wherever you find yourself, you go. Everyone, including Umaru, them, all of us, we all had to run. So luckily for me, when I was going, I was running with my mom and my younger brother who passed away two years ago.
23:01Megha Mohan:So it was myself, my mom, and my younger brother. Along the way, when we were rescued, now to, I mean, they brought us to the city. And when we got to the city, my dad was still in the provinces. Because when we run, everybody go, they are different ways. So myself and my mom, we got to the city, we went and we were staying at my dad's brother's house.
23:31Fatima Bio:So had the unrest not happened, you would have been married off?
23:37Megha Mohan:They've already signed it. The agreement that you were going to get married was going to happen? They've already done it. So when we came to Frita, my mum said, go. So I left and I went and started living with a distant cousin. So when my dad came, my mum said, I don't know where she is.
23:58Fatima Bio:What do you think of your mother now as an adult?
24:28Megha Mohan:didn't and they were also trying to protect themselves because they needed my dad for their own daily survival and that's the power he had on them and what made you want to take that as a as
24:42Fatima Bio:a sort of principal cause of yours so which point did you decide that that was going to be something
24:47Megha Mohan:from the moment i went to the uk the moment i felt i am free from that point i have never stopped I have never stopped. I've always been vocal about it. I've always talked about it. I've always stood against it.
25:04Fatima Bio:What was it like being an asylum seeker in the UK in the mid-90s?
25:10Megha Mohan:It was better than being here and being married to an old pervert. Anything but that. So it's nothing that I can complain about, because if I didn't go, I would not be seated here today. So England was my amazing grace. I went to England, I got my voice, I got my independence, and then I was able to fight for myself, and now I can fight for as many young people as possible.
25:45Fatima Bio:Thank you for listening to the interview. You'll find more in-depth conversations on the interview wherever you get your BBC podcasts, including episodes with Ukraine's President Vladimir Zelensky and Antonio Guterres, Secretary General of the UN, plus many more. Until the next time, bye for now.
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From the publisher
“The person who has always been my uncle, and whenever he comes to the house, I'm running to him. He buys me sweets, this is like my uncle. And then one day they said, oh, this your husband. I'm like, what? At that point I hated myself, I hated my mum because I wanted an adult to fight for me but she just did not have it to fight because she was so scared of my dad.” BBC journalist Megha Mohan speaks to Sierra Leone’s first lady, Fatima Bio, about escaping child marriage at the age of 13, rebuilding her life as a refugee in London, and her rise to become one of the country’s most outspoken public figures. Since becoming first lady, Bio has transformed the role in Sierra Leone, campaigning publicly on issues including child marriage, sexual violence and period poverty.
To supporters, she is a refreshing voice in politics, who speaks up for women and girls, while others say she has overstepped her remit and that she is too vocal and too involved in the running of her husband’s party. The Interview brings you conversations with people shaping our world, from all over the world. The best interviews from the BBC, including episodes with Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelensky, and Antonio Guterres, Secretary General of the UN. You can listen on the BBC World Service on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays at 0800 GMT. Or you can listen to The Interview as a podcast, out three times a week on BBC Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts. Presenter: Megha Mohan Producers: Osman Iqbal Editor: Damon Rose and Justine Lang Get in touch with us on email TheInterview@bbc.co.uk and use the hashtag #TheInterviewBBC on social media.
(Image: Fatima Bio. Credit: Getty)