Mohammed Dewji, billionaire: I want to give back

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1:14Mohammed Dewji:Hello, I'm Charles Guitonga, presenter of Focus on Africa, and this is the interview from the BBC World Service, the best conversations coming out of the BBC. People shaping our world from all over the world. I want to get freedom. I like that freedom.

1:30Charles Gitonga:A gender equal world would be a better world for men too.

1:34Mohammed Dewji:We need this is fire. We need healing. We need trust. These companies don't really, they don't care what governments do.

1:41Charles Gitonga:This is a war.

1:42Mohammed Dewji:The first thing that we want is the war to end. For this interview, I meet Mohamed Douji, one of Africa's youngest billionaires, when he came into our studio in Nairobi. Mohamed Douji is a Tanzanian businessman, entrepreneur, and philanthropist who has primarily accumulated his wealth from his family business. It is an East African conglomerate founded by his grandparents and expanded by his father in the 1970s. It deals with textile manufacturing, flour milling, beverages and edible oils, among others. About 25 years ago, Africa had no dollar billionaires. Today, they are still only 23, not a huge number for a continent rich in mineral wealth and abundance of relatively cheap labor.

2:29Mohammed Dewji:Their combined wealth has grown to more than 100 billion US dollars. Duji, Tanzania's only billionaire, signed the giving pledge in 2016, promising to donate at least half of his fortune to philanthropic causes. You are going to hear how he made his money, what it felt like to become a billionaire, and why he believes wealth comes with a sense of responsibility.

2:52Charles Gitonga:I was 39 years old, and this whole thing kind of came out in the news that Mo is not only a billionaire, but he's Africa's youngest billionaire. and a lot of people congratulated me. I felt no difference from the day before. I knew that I had to keep my eye on the ball and that I had to grow the business further. Yes, I'm a capitalist and I do want to make money, but I want to make money in the right way, ethically, but more importantly, I want to use this money to be able to give back.

3:37Mohammed Dewji:Welcome to the interview from the BBC World Service with Mohamed Douji. People ask, you know, being a billionaire, a dollar billionaire for that matter, how it feels.

3:49Charles Gitonga:So I really don't feel any different, but I feel when you have such amount of wealth, wealth comes with responsibility. I believe that this life is a transient life. You have a body and you have a soul and your soul will continue to be in existence and that you have a responsibility. And the responsibility is that you are one of the lucky ones that God has blessed. And therefore you almost become like an agent that you need to use this wealth to create impact, to do philanthropy. And now that I'm 50 plus, I have been doing philanthropy. I go into politics for a principal reason of philanthropy.

4:49Charles Gitonga:And I've been running my foundation. And we are focusing on many, many interesting things like education, healthcare, water accessibility and I am trying to use my business acumen to be able to convert that into making a larger impact so we all know that everybody has limited resources so the question is that if you have one dollar available how do you use that dollar they call it the bang for the buck how do you use that dollar and stretch it and make impact to as many people as possible.

5:32Mohammed Dewji:So when you're giving that answer, I sensed a bit of stewardship there in the way you approach the wealth and the money. But I'm wondering whether that's something that comes along the way, the richer you get. Perhaps at the beginning years of your careers, it's all about push, push, push. Very true. Yes, you have ambition.

5:51Charles Gitonga:You want to diversify. you want to grow your wealth. So my journey was, you know, when I joined my father's business, I graduated from Georgetown University. What did you study? I majored in finance and international business and I mitered in theology. And the idea was at that time, the per capita income in Africa was very low. It was$20 a month. And I was in the US and I kept on thinking that how do I become rich in Africa when people have such small purchasing power or disposable income. So I said, I want to follow the money. I said, okay, fine. They may have$25. How many of them are there? And there were many in numbers.

6:42Charles Gitonga:And of course, the population growth is quite high in Africa. And I said, how do they use their$25? Somebody wakes up in the morning, he wants to shower, He needs to use soap. So I started manufacturing soap. And then, you know, he sits down and he wants to have a mandazi or a chapati. I know you need to use wheat flour to do that. I went into the grain milling business. So I do maize milling, wheat milling, rice milling. They need cooking oil. So I went into the edible oil refining, cooking fats and margins and so on. So I followed where the money went. And I went push, push, push. And in trying to build as many businesses as possible.

7:31Mohammed Dewji:Okay, I see. The smile there was for the chapati. It's quite a favorite of mine. But take me a little bit just to the beginning. And so this business initially was founded by your father in the 70s.

7:42Charles Gitonga:No, it was actually founded by my grandmother and my grandfather. and they used to have a shop and then at the back of the shop they had a house. It was not a house, it was like a room. And when I talk about they used to do retail, it's not the retail that we're talking about today. It's not big supply chains and, you know. The retail we talk about today is I buy a carton of juice and I break it down and sell one bottle of juice. That may consider it be retail. But at that time, they would buy one kilo of salt and sell in grams in newspapers. That's the retail we are talking about. Then after that, my father kind of energized the business and grew the business and became more of a trader.

8:37Charles Gitonga:So when I joined him, he used to do commodity trading. and which today we are one of the largest commodity trading houses in Eastern Central Africa. And to just mention a few things, I mean, we import everything from sugar, rice, from fertilizers to bubble gum, to yeast, from tractors to motorcycles, from fans to air conditioners. But we also export commodities like coffee and cocoa beans and sesame seeds and yellow gram and green milk and gum arabica and cotton. So they were a commodity house, which I grew further, made it a regional commodity house and went into value addition and manufacturing because I always believed in job creation.

9:23Mohammed Dewji:So when you joined your father in this, you know, shop that you called, you know,

9:28Charles Gitonga:what was your job? Because I was a finance major. I said, look, I needed to look at his financial situation in terms of his balance sheets and profit and loss. And then I realized that, OK, this was a trading business. And I said that, why is it that he's importing soap while we can manufacture soap? And why is he importing edible oils while we can refine edible oils? So I was at the right time where government policies were promoting industrialization. So in the past, the traders were the winners. Then the government said that if you were to bring in, let's say, raw materials, you would have to pay lesser tax compared to bringing in finished goods.

10:14Charles Gitonga:So I saw that gap and I said, look, let me go into manufacturing. And that's how the manufacturing journey started. So at what point do you realize, okay, I think I might become a billionaire by just doing this? I wanted to be a wealthy man, but I never thought about becoming a billionaire. I just thought that I need to just, you know, do as many businesses as possible. And the reason why I'm so diversified, if you take a country like China, you can just manufacture one product and become a billionaire. But in East Africa, the markets are not that big. So to answer your question, never thought as such of wanting to become a billionaire.

11:02Charles Gitonga:It was more like, you know, I knew it was a step-by-step process and that I had to work hard. I had to be disciplined. I mean, I used to work for many, many years, 100-hour weeks. And, you know, when you put discipline and when you have a vision And when God blesses you and you're in the right time, in the right place, you know, things kind of fall into place. And with God's will, what happened happened. And I became a billionaire. And did you celebrate? Not really. I didn't because I remember, I think it was I was 39 years old. and you know this whole thing kind of came out in in the news that you know mo is not only a billionaire but he's africa's youngest billionaire and you know a lot of people congratulated me i felt no difference from the day before yeah and that you know i i keep on saying this that i i knew that I had to keep my eye on the ball and that I had to grow the business further.

12:14Charles Gitonga:And again, when I say to grow the business further, I'm not in the rat race. I have no ambition to continue gathering wealth, but rather I feel, yes, I want, I'm a capitalist And I do want to make money, but I want to make money in the right way, ethically. But more importantly, I want to use this money to be able to give back. And that's why I signed the giving pledge.

12:48Mohammed Dewji:You know, for most of us, the payday at the end of the month feels quite nice. So I'm surprised you did not have a spring in your step when you found a billion dollars and above.

13:00Charles Gitonga:Yes, so I'll tell you something very interesting. I just remembered something. I had a friend of mine and he lives in the UK now. I remember him playing the song, I want to be a billionaire. And it was billionaire and Forbes. And I had never heard of that song. And it kind of resonated. And, you know, we laughed about it. And he's like, let me play it for you. I'm like, I'm already a billionaire. Are you playing it? So I just remember that, actually. So maybe that was a small kind of moment of, let's say, a celebration between two very close friends.

13:44Mohammed Dewji:You are listening to the interview from the BBC World Service.

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14:29Mohammed Dewji:I want to eat healthier, but get frustrated when produce spoils before I can eat it. So I went to Grand Appliance looking for a fridge that would help. They recommended a Frigidaire Gallery French door with crispers

14:41Charles Gitonga:that block dry air and excess moisture to extend the life of fresh food. And wow, it really works. No more wasted food in my house. Expert appliance recommendations for the win. Shop grandappliance.com.

14:56Mohammed Dewji:So the thing about billionaires is that they are not easy to find. Time is money, remember? And it wasn't any different with Mohamed Douji. My colleagues at Focus on Africa spent nearly six months arranging this interview. At some point, his team even suggested that we fly to meet him at his office in Dubai. But as fate would have it, Mohamed had a conference to attend in Nairobi. So we seized the moment. He gave us about half an hour for this conversation, and before we could begin, he told me I should do away with the official staff and just call him Mo. Now, in the next part of this interview, I put to him the argument that Africa is seeing a widening gap between a tiny elite and the rest of the population, and that inequality beyond a certain level works against society.

15:44Mohammed Dewji:Okay, let's return to my conversation with Mo.

15:47Charles Gitonga:We all know that Africa is facing large unemployment. My company, METL Group, and specifically I want to mention in Tanzania, we are employing 38 ,000 direct jobs.

16:05Mohammed Dewji:Those are employees that you're paying at the end of every month? Yes.

16:08Charles Gitonga:Now, we are the second largest employers after the government of United Republic of Tanzania. Now, if today I would have not generated the wealth generated and not done the business that I have done, would this 38 ,000 plus people have jobs? Point number one. Point number two, if you look at entrepreneurs, we are paying all types of taxes. and sometimes I call that the government is actually our partner. So when you're paying, whether it is duties, whether it is VAT, whether it is railway development levies, whether it is corporate tax, end of the day, whatever money you are making, you are paying taxes And the same money is being used to take social services to poor people.

17:16Third, that I in specific, I do a lot of impact and philanthropy.

17:25Charles Gitonga:Yes. And as much as I agree with him that there is a difference between the haves and the have nots, But if you are a responsible billionaire, then I feel that you face lesser of a problem. And we will talk about when I was kidnapped for nine days, I was blindfolded, hand and legs tied. One, God saved me, I believe, because I'm a man of faith. but to the poor of the poorest who are praying for me. And you can go back in whether social media or newspapers, that now where have you seen a rich man getting kidnapped and poor people praying for him? So to answer to him that there's two sides of the coin.

18:28Charles Gitonga:And I feel that I am personally responsible with the money that I've earned to make sure that I alleviate poverty, support my government and help the underprivileged.

18:47Mohammed Dewji:The impact is there. You've talked about over 30 ,000 employees. I also read that your companies contribute over 5 % to Tanzania's economy, which is huge. That's a lot of impact. So I think the question sometimes, the moral question is whether you need to get so rich while doing it. Yes, it's helping. It gives employment. But does it have to put you at that level? Or could the system work in a way that more people rise with you? So my issue is, the richer you get, the more business you do, the more taxes you pay, the more employment you give, the more philanthropy