Mohammed Idris, Nigeria’s Information Minister: Stopping militant attacks

0:00Mohammed Idris:This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:30Mohammed Idris:Singapore, where business events can create lasting impact.

1:22Mohammed Idris:The best conversations coming out of the BBC. people shaping our world from all over the world. If you're not a little bit afraid, then you're not paying attention. We have never seen a people so united. Do not make that boat crossing. Do not make that journey. Being born in America, feeling American, having people treat me like I'm not.

1:49Victoria Uwonkunda:We're more popular than populism.

1:54Mohammed Idris:For this interview, I met Mohamed Idris, Nigeria's Information Minister, while he was on a visit to London. Nigeria is Africa's most populous country and one of its largest economies, but it's also grappling with deep challenges, from a rise in deadly militant attacks to the question of how to create opportunities for a young and fast-growing population. In recent years, more and more young professionals have been leaving Nigeria, heading abroad in search of better opportunities. Concerns have been raised about a growing brain drain and whether the country is losing the very people it needs to build its future.

2:38Victoria Uwonkunda:The reform agenda of Mr. President is copying this issue of brain drain for the medical industrialization pursued by the health sector, for example. In the past, all the pharmaceutical companies just import their products into Nigeria. But now we have a stronger policy that will compel them to also set up these manufacturing plants in Nigeria so that they can create jobs for our young men and women to participate in that sector. And I think once industrialization takes hold, it will be necessary that we have people staying more at home than going out of the country. And indeed, we see young Nigerian people working in the fine tech and making waves around the world.

3:25Victoria Uwonkunda:So I believe that with industrialization, with emphasis being put in setting up more factories in Nigeria, more Nigerian young men and women will be there. and those who have travelled outside this country may find it necessary to come back.

3:45Mohammed Idris:Welcome to the interview from the BBC World Service with Mohamed Idris. From your government's point of view, where are the main challenges? If you could just pick out three of the main challenges where President Tinubu and his government, of which you're a part of, are working to make sure that you reach those goals, that you make life better for Nigerians?

4:06Victoria Uwonkunda:First and foremost is to ensure that we return security to our country. Of course, this didn't start with the administration. It's nearly two decades old that we have criminal elements wreaking havoc on some communities and also bringing soko to people using these reforms because if you look at what detention that exists between farmers and herders that in turn create this kind of problem. These are all being eased. President Bola Ametidubu has, for the first time in our history, created the Ministry of Livestock Development, for example. It's a multi-trillion Nara sector that has been untapped and is working assiduously to ensure that this helps in easing some of these pressures.

4:56Victoria Uwonkunda:And the economy, agriculture, for example, is also being worked on. The government is spending a lot of money to reposition that sector. Dry season farming is also being encouraged. A lot of farming inputs and implements, tractors and other implements that are required to make agriculture really very attractive. And, you know, because that's the main driver of our economy in any way. So the government is putting a lot of money and paying a lot of attention in that direction.

5:26Mohammed Idris:Let's take security. It's a huge, sadly, issue for Nigeria and Nigerian, especially in the north. In the northeast, as you mentioned, it's been ongoing, especially with Boko Haram, the militants group, since 2009, I believe. So it's quite a long time. We've just seen yet another attack in my degree on Monday. Twenty-three people, hundreds of others injured. what is your government doing to make sure that Nigerians go to sleep, that they can break their fast knowingly that they are not going to be attacked, that they are not going to lose their limbs or lives, that mothers can know that their children are coming home?

6:07Victoria Uwonkunda:Well, it's a sad one. First, my heart goes out to those who lost loved ones and those who are injured. is really a very bad thing for our country. But, you know, if you know Meduguri very well, you know that we have managed to have peace in that part of the country over the years. That, you know, we were really not taken aback that this has happened at this time. Meduguri used to be a bit, you know, problematic security-wise, you know, years ago. But government has been able to stabilize that city and that part of the country. When this was reported, President Bola Mechunibu directed all the service chiefs to move to Meduguli.

6:57Victoria Uwonkunda:All the security agents are paying renewed attention in that area. And just before that, the president approved large sums of money for the purchase of weapons that can be used to fight this violent extremist. You know, we know that there are also the other part of it, religious extremists who are using the porous nature of our borders and the problem in the Sahel, creating this tension. But security is not just one country issue. It's actually, it has no borders. I mean, violent extremism has no borders.

7:34Mohammed Idris:Rightly so you say that the attacks and insurgency by Boko Haram had kind of diminished since 2015. So much work had been put. But you also say that you were taken aback by this attack when 23 people lost their lives in Maiduguri. Did the intelligence services of Nigeria fail?

7:54Victoria Uwonkunda:Well, I don't think they failed. I think that more work needs to be done. if you know Meduguri. Meduguri has largely become very, very peaceful. They're not in some part of the country.

8:07Mohammed Idris:But they still managed to come to the post office. They still managed to come to the market open now when people are breaking their hearts.

8:13Victoria Uwonkunda:It's so unfortunate that that has happened. But indeed, Nigerian security agencies are walking around the clock to ensure that this does not happen again. I mean, we don't want to see people being attacked. We don't want to see people, you know, denied sleep. as a result of the activities of these criminals and religious extremists, that intelligence sharing is key in the fight against terrorism and this kind of criminal insurgency. And so we need to fight and work together. So Nigeria will work with our regional partners, will work with others to bring peace to not just Nigeria, but the entire region.

8:54Mohammed Idris:Speaking of these partnerships that you have, especially with the United States, We saw President Trump saying that he was sending in some help, some military help. Talk us through about what that looks like. What is it that the Nigerian government, the Nigerians that you are looking for from the Americans, how can they help the country, the government fight all these insurgencies?

9:18Victoria Uwonkunda:I think they are already doing that. You recall that, you know, in four or five weeks before now, So the American government, in partnership, of course, with Nigerian authorities, sent in some personnel, some military personnel with some intelligence sharing capability and with some expertise and some technical equipment to help us to locate where these criminals are so that we can fight them. But this has been led by the Nigerian security agencies. It's not as if the American government is just coming to do this on its own. It's a partnership that we are forging. And Nigeria is open. We have always said that it's open to that kind of partnership, not just with the U.S., with the U.K., but anybody that can provide their help.

10:07Victoria Uwonkunda:Terrorizing everywhere means that there is no safety anywhere. So we need to work together to ensure that we rid our community, our country, our region, and the entire world of this criminality.

10:21Mohammed Idris:Concretely, what is it that the Americans have offered Nigeria?

10:25Victoria Uwonkunda:First, they are helping us to intelligence gathering, improving our intelligence capability to get some of this intelligence on the activities and movement of these criminals. They are also helping us to get some military equipment that will help us to locate and track down these terrorists so that they don't create havoc in our soil. And I think broadly these are some of those things that we are doing together.

10:53Mohammed Idris:Is there any worry from your government or from yourself, Mr. Minister, that the language that is coming from the Trump administration, especially President Trump, saying that Christians are the ones who are targeted constantly, when data has shown that it's basically all Nigerians who live in the north and the northeast, is there a worry that this could be enticing in a way that it could just divide Nigerians even furthermore?

11:18Victoria Uwonkunda:We are encouraged to leave this rhetoric behind and forge this even more partnership with the United States of America. The fact that some officials of the U.S. and the Congress and the U.S. administration were in Abuja to discuss this with our Nigerian officials. It's an indication that there's a deeper cooperation, deeper partnership that is being forged. we want to say that Nigeria as we have always said is a multi-faith country it's a country that tolerates religious freedom there is no any official declaration or position on any particular religion in our country Christians, Muslims and even those who don't believe in anything are free to live and practice whatever is their faith in our country in any case this enshrined our constitution there's nothing anybody can do about it all the officials, we have Christians, we have Muslims, we have everyone in our government.

12:17Victoria Uwonkunda:So we're de-emphasizing that because this is exactly where these terrorists want to drive us to. So we need to understand the complexities and the drivers of this conflict. We shouldn't allow them the room to make it look like Nigerians are divided among themselves, Christian, Muslim, and then taking up amongst each other. That is not the case. And we're fighting, you know, common enemy. and all of us have to come together to ensure that we fight them out once and for all.

12:46Mohammed Idris:Have you sent that message back to President Trump in the Oval Office, that that rhetoric you don't want, that rhetoric needs to stop?

12:54Victoria Uwonkunda:Well, we don't want to be going forth and back on that. I think what is important is that he sent officials to Nigeria. Some of our officials were in the United States. We want to believe that there is now a deeper understanding by the American government on the complex situation, complex security situation that we face in Nigeria.

13:23Mohammed Idris:You're listening to the interview from the BBC World Service.

13:33Mohammed Idris:This episode is brought to you by Intuit QuickBooks BillPay. You didn't start a business to spend your Sundays chasing invoices and manual data entry. But as you grow, accounts payable starts to feel like a full-time job you never applied for. Bills pile up, approvals get lost in email, and your vendors are constantly asking, where's my check? It's distracting, it's stressful, and it's keeping you from the work that actually moves the needle. Intuit QuickBooks BillPay is the exit ramp. QuickBooks BillPay automates the busy work that eats your calendar by bringing every bill, every vendor, and every payment into one organized dashboard.

14:05Mohammed Idris:Stop chasing details and start seeing the big picture. Know exactly what's due, who needs to sign off, and how it impacts your cash flow before the money leaves your bank. Vendors can even manage their own details, so you stay in control of how and when you pay. Grow with confidence and put your AP on autopilot in QuickBooks. Learn more at QuickBooks.com slash BillPay. Again, that's quickbooks.com slash billpay. Terms apply. Money movement services are provided by Intuit Payments, Inc., licensed as a money transmitter by the New York State Department of Financial Services. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people.

14:37Mohammed Idris:So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals, including 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company, role, seniority, skills, company revenue, so you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. It's why LinkedIn ads generates the highest B2B return on ad spend of major ad networks. Spend$250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get$250 credit for the next one. Just go to linkedin.com slash broadcast. That's linkedin.com slash broadcast.

15:12Mohammed Idris:Terms and conditions apply.

15:17Mohammed Idris:Mohamed Idris and I meet in a bustling area of the 6-4 of the BBC headquarters in London, where our mics are put in place and we slot into our respective roles. A minister and an interviewer. My notebook and pen are the ready. A minister and an interviewer. My notebook and pen are the ready. But no water or tea or coffee for either of us because it's Ramadan and we are both fasting. But while I will break my fast at my desk a few floors below later that evening, Mr Idris will be having a royal feast for his iftar at Windsor Palace, hosted by King Charles and his family. More on that letter. The thing I quickly noticed when Mr Idris and I meet is his calm elegance and quiet authority, without it being too overwhelming, especially considering his height, a tall, lean man with an easy smile and a firm handshake.

16:15Mohammed Idris:He struck me as someone who's learned how to be at ease with himself as well as those in his presence. He observes and he listens. And I was surprised he was one of those politicians not that evasive at answering questions. Like, for example, when I asked him, point blank, if his government and security forces had failed to stop the attack by Boko Haram militants. Okay, let's return to my conversation with Mohamed Idris. Let's pivot and look at what is happening now in the Middle East, the Iran war. Nigeria is a very big oil producer on the continent, I believe is the biggest, and we are seeing oil prices go up.

17:01Mohammed Idris:How much of what is happening in the Middle East, as we speak to you now, Mr. Minister, is going to affect Nigeria and the Nigerian economy?

17:12Victoria Uwonkunda:Well, we as Nigerians, we are always desirous of joining hands with people all over the world, the economies all over the world, to ensure energy security, not just for Nigeria, but for the world. What is happening in Iran, I think, is hitting up the economy, so to say, and it's creating some shocks within the economy. It's not just that of Nigeria, but around the world. as we can see. But what we are praying for and hoping for and preaching for is that we should have the escalation in the conflict in the region. Diplomacy should take root. We believe that dialogue is the best answer to any kind of situation we find ourselves.

17:58Victoria Uwonkunda:But Nigeria will always play its part to ensure that there's energy security for people around the world. That is what we are committed to.

18:06Mohammed Idris:But as an oil producing country, you will think if it's not going well for somebody, we've got something. Are you having those kind of conversations of how you can help push some of your oil to the rest of the world?

18:18Victoria Uwonkunda:Nigeria is ever ready to contribute to energy security around the world. Whatever Nigeria can do to help ease tension, Nigeria will of course do that. But I think the best will be to have de-escalation and to have dialogue, take center stage in order to ensure that energy security is further guaranteed for everyone around the world.

18:43Mohammed Idris:But what are you putting in place to make sure that you can mitigate the hits that Nigerians might meet if this war carries on for furthermore?