Yemi Alade, singer: I wanted to be a mega superstar

13:33Yemi Alade:Speaking of staying relevant, you've just launched the Yem Beauty line last year. Under a year. Now, a lot of artists say, you know what, you need to diversify beyond music because 10 years down the line, you may not be active anymore. Is that something that jolted you into saying, you know what, I need to diversify as well?

13:55Nkechi Ogbonna:It's an idea that I had been working on for over four years. Oh, wow. Yes, I had been working on it for so long. And I felt like if I didn't put this product out, I probably never would. You know, because there's always this need to be perfect to have everything all planned. But then I remind myself that in the beginning of my actual career, did I know what was going to happen the next step of the way? I just went with the flow. And so I started off with Yem Beauty with a range of lipsticks. It's a matte, long lasting lipstick and lip gloss collection. And by the end of the year, we intend to expand to add on more products there.

14:35Yemi Alade:But you see, you've succeeded in a space as a woman where, first of all, the entertainment industry, I've spoken to a few female performers or creatives, and they say it's very hard for women.

14:48Nkechi Ogbonna:But you're doing it. How are you able to do it? Which space is easy for women? There is an unwritten rule that we have to work double the time, double the hours, and put in double the effort to rise above all possible doubts. and these are rules that were not written anywhere it's just in the atmosphere it's as if the systems of the world are structured in a way that it limits the woman and makes the woman to push herself beyond her own boundaries just to prove one point and then now you say but i'm doing it and i think that is the secret that even when as a woman you find yourself in the world that seems to be against you you just have to do it irrespective and most importantly don't wait for them to give it to you, earn it, take it, break down the walls, break down the doors, take what's yours because what's truly yours might be delayed but cannot be denied.

15:37Nkechi Ogbonna:But do you feel it's getting easier for women now on the continent? People are just a little more accepting and women need to continue coming out in their thousands and millions to continue to push the envelope, to continue to take and conquer and occupy space. The more we occupy space and the more we remember that we should also open the door for the woman next to us. We will continue to continue to better ourselves.

16:00Yemi Alade:Another thing a lot of female creatives have spoken about is very unequal benefits. So for instance, you and a fellow artist were called to perform at a certain event, but you get paid less than your male counterpart. Why is that still a thing till now?

16:17Nkechi Ogbonna:It's the unwritten rules I just told you about. It's not written in any book, but for some reason, these laws just apply that it's important for women to earn less. I love our culture and I love our tradition, but somehow it also seeps into our systems where the woman is seen as like a second citizen rather than a first citizen, you know? And so it's almost like an ego boost to know that you can give a guy a higher pay than a woman. It's just like, mentally it's like, oh, it's normal now. This is the balance. Why would I give you, why would I give this guy 10 naira and I'll give this girl 10 naira or give her 20 naira for what?

16:55Nkechi Ogbonna:She has to prove herself.

16:56Yemi Alade:How are you able to demand your worth? Because some women are just looking for that opportunity. To that young woman who's listening to you and saying, you know what, this is my daily struggle. How are you able to

17:07Nkechi Ogbonna:demand what your worth is? You have mouth. Demand now. You use your mouth and you say what you want And while you're doing it, back it up with your work. Demand. Ask and it shall be given.

17:17Yemi Alade:And personally, are there certain obstacles that you say you have faced that have shaken you? And you're like, you know what, I'm not even sure this music I'm meant to do it. Maybe I'm meant to be a teacher or something. Has there been that incident that has been like a huge challenge?

17:31Nkechi Ogbonna:I feel like if there's anything that's made me feel like I wanted to take a break, I think it would be more of like internal tiredness. because the industry takes a lot from her contributors. That's the creative. Especially in this world where we don't only make music now, we're now TikTokers.

17:50Yemi Alade:Speaking of that, I see you cooking. These days, I'm like, she's in the kitchen. Okay, she's not in the studio. She's not in the studio. She's in the kitchen. I'm like, okay. You just took your song. I will get you later. Don't worry. But you know, I want to cook now. You're still mixing something. Speaking of structures, because a few artists who I've spoken to have said, you know what, there is no structure. The enabling environment is not there. This is an industry that is powering itself. So is there something that African governments are not doing right?

18:22Nkechi Ogbonna:In the past, one of our biggest problems was piracy. As creatives, our creations, our legacies, they are our bread and butter. And sometimes there are some people who only get one stroke of genius for their entire life. But we are robbed of that in Africa because we don't have systems that protect the artist, preserve the artistry and elongate it, longevity. So we tend to have artists who are big for a period of time and then they disappear. But they're alive. What happens to their work? Their work has been pirated. There's plagiarism everywhere. And then there is no way to even fight the corrupt system that is eating the rot.

18:59Nkechi Ogbonna:because we don't have a government that sees the value in our almost intangible industry.

19:05Yemi Alade:How is the identity of a passport a barrier or an entry into, I'm entering uncomfortable zones, but yeah. How would you say that is impacting people like you and your ability to do what you love to do? Especially young up-and-coming artists who may not necessarily have that clout to break into certain markets.

19:27Nkechi Ogbonna:I feel like the struggle and stigma of the green Nigerian passport has been passed on from generation to generation. And in my generation, I also have to face the bias that I did not have any hand in. To be on a queue at immigration with other nationals and you see other nationals going through immigration easily until your green passport comes up and then the official sits up. Suddenly now work has started, you know, because you're coming with a Nigerian passport. and they want to know why you're here, what you're looking for, who's going to be there. And at some point, they'll even say, you don't even look like your picture.

20:02Nkechi Ogbonna:Go to the back. We need to do more information. Yes. Have you experienced that? Oh, yes, I have. Because I travel a lot. They're like, why did you land in London today and you're going to Paris tomorrow? I'm going to come back to London tomorrow. You are up to something. Get the customs. Unfortunately for you, the customs is a fan of me. So he knows that this girl is on tour. What you talking about? You know, but like the stigma of just having an African passport, specifically a Nigerian passport, but it precedes itself. And I find myself fighting battles that I did not start. I've always had this dream where Africans didn't need to pay for any visa to go to any fellow African countries.

20:38Nkechi Ogbonna:And it's not just the idea of it that I like. It is the endless possibilities that we will be opening to ourselves as an economy. We will be able to better our economies, increase inter-African trade between African countries. I feel like that's something that is lacking because why should I be trying to do business in Nigeria with an East African company and we're talking dollars. We are the motherland. We have the value, the actual value.

21:04Yemi Alade:Okay. So Yemi, I want to take you through a very quick fire round. Okay. So very short answers. One word if you prefer. Talk to me. One, who's still on your musical wish list when it comes to collaborations? African, original or global, whichever.

21:20Nkechi Ogbonna:Bruno Mars.

21:20Yemi Alade:Three African artists everyone should listen to.

21:23Nkechi Ogbonna:Yemi Alade. Duh. Obviously. Obviously. One can hear you. Anjali Kijo.

21:31Yemi Alade:Okay. One stereotype about Africa you're tired of hearing.

21:35Nkechi Ogbonna:Oh, you mean you have lions in the streets? Yo.

21:41Nkechi Ogbonna:Simba, is that you?

21:44Yemi Alade:Rafiki. Duh. I know, right? If you weren't a musician, what would you be?

21:52Nkechi Ogbonna:I will be working in the aviation sector. I wanted to say a hostess. Perhaps. I really wanted to say a hostess. But not a pilot. But perhaps. Perhaps. It's very possible that my two legs would have led me there. One African meal you would never say no to. Afang soup. Afang soup. Ah, can I say two? Afang a hoha soup, please. Oh, dear. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

22:15Yemi Alade:What are you talking about? Okay. What are you talking about? And the biggest myth about success.

22:21Nkechi Ogbonna:When you're successful, it becomes easier. That's a big lie. harder than it ever was.

22:28Yemi Alade:Before I let you go, you mentioned something about the girl child. You're very passionate about the girl child. Now, I want you to just imagine for a second that there is a young 19, 20-year-old girl who says, you know what, I love music. There's this burning desire to launch out and do what I love to do. I think this is what I was created for. But sadly, her environment would not let her thrive in that space as a woman. What would you say to her?

22:54Nkechi Ogbonna:Wow. I would say to a certain young girl out there, teenager, who has the dreams of becoming a super mega star in the music industry, yet confronted by the disadvantages of her environment. I would say to her that the beautiful thing about dreams when they meet action is that there's nothing that can stop them. Continuous action gives results. A lot of things will come your way. What's important is that you continue to deliver action after action because inaction is the only thing that can be detrimental to your dreams. Having a dream is really crazy because normally you're supposed be in your sleep while dreaming, right?

23:42Nkechi Ogbonna:But the minute you take that dream and you bring it to reality, that's where the work starts. If you believe you have the backbone for this, get up and start working towards it. We human beings, we like to focus too much on disadvantages because we feel we know a lot. Oh, this is against me. That's against me. That's against me. You spend your entire day labeling and pointing out the things that are against you, forgetting that if only you put that aside and focus on what you have, the sky is your starting point.

24:12Yemi Alade:Thank you for listening to the interview. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can find many more episodes of the interview wherever you get your BBC podcast, including ones with Gugu Zuma Nkube and Tuli Zuma, executive producers of South Africa's Netflix hit show, The Polygamist. Until next time, bye for now.

24:43Yemi Alade:Hello, Greg Jenner here. I'm the host of You're Dead to Me, the BBC comedy show that takes history seriously. Every episode, I pair up a top historian with a fantastic comedian, and we have a lovely, funny, fascinating chat about a different subject from world history. And in this new series, we're beginning with an epic voyage through the story of Homer, the Iliad, and the Odyssey. And that's with Kyle Smith-Bino joining us. And then we'll be learning about Francis Galton and the racist, discredited pseudoscience of eugenics with Desiree Birch. We'll meet many medieval saints in their bone boxes with Rachel Parrott.

25:16Yemi Alade:So if that sounds like your sort of thing, listen to You're Dead to Me wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. Bye.