MI Rewind: Bitcoin and Financial Independence w/ Jim Crider

23:32And I always heard my parents fight about money. And we didn't know when the lights were going to get turned off. We didn't know we were going to eat. Our clothes were tattered. I got made fun of because I couldn't get my hair cut. My mom would do it with a bowl. So when I was 9, 10, 11 years old, I decided I want to make sure that my kids have a better childhood than I had. And then I went into medicine and we've made a lot of money and we did it. Wow, that's awesome. So you made all this money, but you said you want to do this so your kids could have a better childhood than you had. How was that?

23:59How was having a family? How were your kids' childhood? And man, right now I want to get tears. So often, these families sit back and think about that for their first time. It's like they realize for the first time in decades why they set out on this. and they think, they tell me, I don't know how my kid's childhood was. I was so busy working and saving that I don't know, maybe they had a good childhood, but I was never present. Yeah, they had lots of nice stuff, but frankly, I don't know them. And that's really, really sad. That's why I do what I do. We're here to help you do what's important to you.

24:36That's like Stephen Covey talks about climbing a ladder that's leaned against the wrong wall. There are so many people who are successful financially. They climbed the ladder. They reached the upper rings of the ladder just to realize, my gosh, I worked really hard and I climbed really fast and I beat everyone else. That's not what I wanted. And we have to make sure you're not doing that. So yeah, I have a client right now. I have a few clients. They're in the military. They're stationed overseas. And one comes to mind. I love this family. They're living in Germany right now. They're stationed overseas for three years.

25:03And they have two girls, two young girls. They got an 11-year-old and I think 11 and 9. I might be be mistaken on the ages. But yeah, let's say 11 to 9. They went over there and they said, Jim, we've never been to Europe. We want to explore while we're here, but can we do this? Is that smart for our plan? I told them, we got some of their top destinations. I said, hey, you better go to these places before this year or else you're going to be in trouble. That's a homework and assignment for you. You'll never get these moments back with your kids. There's going to be plenty of time to save. There's going to be plenty of time to invest, but invest in your family.

25:38Let's not be goofy and go and blow money. It's all about being intentional. It's all about assessing the opportunity cost. And is the opportunity cost of letting moments and memories slip by with my kids so I can have a little bit bigger 401k? Man, I wouldn't take that trade off any day of the week. So again, there's opportunity costs in everything. We're not just looking at comparing rates of return, but really your life. And what are we giving up? So what can we go big for. You hit on a few points that I just love. The one that hit home for me was your ladder analogy where someone works so hard to climb up a ladder just to realize that they climbed up the wrong ladder.

26:14It's an important reminder to stay grounded in what you truly value and recognize if your actions are aligned with those values and determine if you're climbing up the right ladder. Exactly. That's why we don't start in goals. We peel it back. For instance, Again, my client base want early financial independence. So typically, the families I work with want the option to not have to work by the time they're mid to late 40s. It's very typical. Ironically, pretty much all my clients love what they do. They just don't want to have to do it per se. They want the freedom to not have to. So we're working with families who want early work optionality.

26:48And typically, the reason they want that is because they want to have more time with the people they love. So the goal is early work optionality. If we stop right there, I would say, awesome, work more hours, save more, and you can do it better. I'd pull that string back. Hey, why do you want to be able to be off work early? For me, I want to be able to not have to work by the time I'm 45. The reason there is because when I'm 45, my kids will be in their late teens. So they'll be before they go off the call and get married. And we love, like I mentioned earlier, we love getting in the mountains.

27:18I would love to be able to go and do the Pacific Crest Trail or the Appalachian Trail and the PCT, all these big trails with my kids while they still have time. So that's the reason why. But being informed of the underlying why, because I want more time with my kids, it would be foolish to say, hey, I'm going to work really hard so I have more time with my kids, yet neglect the time with my kids while they're under my roof because I'm working so hard. So that informs the decisions I make for long-term planning, but also the decisions I make right now. If I'm doing this so I can spend more time with my kids, yeah, save aggressively so I can retire early, but also be there to read to my kids at night.

27:54You've got to find this balance. And you're not going to be able to do that if you're running simply off of goals. You have to pull that thread further to see like, why do I want this? And you keep asking why until you actually have the thing that makes you go, huh, yeah, that's it. Then you know you're there. So you mentioned financial independence and that work optionality. Phrases like financial independence and financial freedom are really thrown around a lot. And I think it'd be good just to touch on, especially for those that just aren't too familiar, what exactly does it mean to be financially independent?

28:29That's a good question. That sounds so simple. The traditional, from what I'm aware of, and you can correct me, maybe you know this more than I do, but my views of the FIRE movement, which is financial independence, retire early. My thoughts on the traditional FIRE movement is I'm going to work really hard for X number of years, whether or not I like my job, so I can save super aggressively and then not have to work and retire by the time I'm 36. And usually, and maybe I'm putting words in everyone else's mouths, but this is my observation from the outside in. I'm going to work really hard doing this job I don't like.

29:03I'm going to live really below my means, missing out on lots of opportunities so I can save aggressive right now. So when I'm 36, I can retire and go backpack in Southeast Asia. And here's the problem with that. And again, maybe I'm really mischaracterizing this, but my thought, if that is what you're looking for, one, what are you missing out on today? What's the opportunity cost? Two, if you are thinking that you're going to be satisfied whenever you're done working at 36 and you're in Southeast Asia backpacking, you're going to get there and realize real quick that one, you're empty because you don't have community.

29:34And two, you're empty because you don't have a means of accomplishment and doing and serving and building and growing. So work optionality and financial independence to me is not retirement. My goodness, Most people who retire at a traditional age at 66 or whatever, realize after two months of playing golf with their buddies that I really don't like spending that much time with these guys and I'm tired of golf. It's getting my blood pressure up. How much more so if you do that when you're in your 30s? So it's not about, again, we're not talking about early retirement. We're talking about early optionality and independence.

30:05And again, I've had a ton of these conversations. There's three big things that come up with the reasons I want financial dependence. So I can spend more time with those I love. So I can focus on my health and wellness. And so I can pursue passion projects. That can be nonprofit or hobby or business. So it's not about stopping working. It's about, I just want to be able to do these things if I choose to. That's really important to focus on here. Yes. I really like how you brought up the reasons why someone would want to become financially independent. It's not so you can say you just retired at 40 years old and you're never going to work again in your life.

30:39We're not wired to just sit around all day doing nothing. You want to do things you enjoy, whether that be, like you said, passion projects or just lines of work that you enjoy doing, that might require some sort of pay cut, or just having that flexibility to spend more time with your family. It's something we do here. So whenever we go through a process of building a plan and talking about this stuff, we go through, we start off talking about digging into the values. We define goals. We assess where you're at current financial situation, and we discuss how we can get from here to there and the decisions and the things that are possibly going to come up along the way, the things that are lurking around the corner that we want to plan for and account for.

31:18But we always circle back before we go and create a solid plan. We define for all of our clients what we call a statement of financial purpose. And what we ask them to do is, I desire early financial independence so that... And I have them answer the question. And if it is so I can spend more time with the people I love and give more generously to the causes we care about, I'm going to press you to do that now as well. How can we make sure we're integrating those things today while being able to go bigger on them later on? That's what it's about. The independence part is not about one day I'm going to hopefully be able to do that.

31:50It's like, I don't know. I want to be able to go bigger if I can. That's what we're looking for. If someone were to ask me, what does it take to be financially independent? Two ways that come to my mind are by one, withdrawing from a portfolio of assets, such as a stock portfolio, or two, building the cash flow to pay for your lifestyle, such as through a real estate or a dividend paying stocks portfolio. Are those scenarios that you talk through with your clients? I like that definition. Not to get too meta or anything, but you could also maybe challenge that independence is simply a state of being satisfied with your situation, whatever it looks like.

32:32I had a client I work with that she was an executive at a major corporation. And in one of our meetings, one of our first meetings, she just started crying. What's going on? I mean, we were here for a long time. Found out, she said, and the last time I was actually happy, I feel like I'm a slave with golden handcuffs to this job. And the last time I was actually happy was when I was in college and I was pouring drinks at Starbucks for 20 hours a week. So we set up, all right, your definition of independence is by 45, be able to quit your nine to five, your much more hours than that. To be able to quit your corporate handcuff, massive cash cow job, have enough money to basically live off what you need, go sling lattes a few hours a week.

33:11You'll like that stuff. So is she financially independent because technically she needs to work a few hours a week at Starbucks or a local coffee shop? We could argue the technicalities there, but in her mind, she made it. She's doing something she likes. That's what we're looking for. I talk a lot of the more out there types of things. I certainly don't want to discount the technical side. So yeah, we're looking at cashflow and distribution of assets and all those fun things. So what that looks like for our client, for instance, net worth is great to track. It's a really good metric to see how am I doing?

33:40How am I progressing? But net worth is flawed in some senses. For instance, if let's say your net worth is 3 million, but you have a$2.5 million house, Like, whoop-de-doo, what are you going to do? You can't retire. You're really creative on maybe tapping into equity on your house. But besides that, you're sort of stuck. So we go beyond net worth and we look at, we call it your financial independence number. So for instance, let's say, Clay, that you desire to have$100 ,000 of annual income at retirement. That's your financial independence number. I can do whatever I want at that point. Then we look at what's your current investment assets plus savings accounts, whatever that is.

34:19So if you're currently sitting at, let's say a million dollars, and we're going to assume for a safe withdrawal rate of 4%, just for fun. So 4 % distribution rate. So that's 40 grand that we could assume that you can pull from your investments. Your goal is 100. From your investment assets, we're looking at 40 grand. So we need another 60. We have a 4 % distribution of investments. Then we look at fixed income assets during retirement. So if you also have maybe a small real estate portfolio that's pulling in 30 grand a year from real estate. So now we're at 70. And then let's say you said, Jim, I truly want to go work at a French bistro.

34:54I want to go work at a winery for 10 hours a week. That would be amazing. Say, do you really want to do that? Say, yeah. Okay. Let's say you'll make 15 grand a year. So you're getting, again, 40 grand from your portfolio, 15 grand now from the winery. And what did I say? 35 from... So now we're at 90 grand. So we look at that, your fixed income distribution from your investments, you're at$90 ,000. Your goal is$100 ,000. So you're 90 % away to your financial independence number. So now we look at, well, we can define financial independence by either saying, I really only want$90 ,000. I'm there.

35:28Or we can look at increasing your investment assets, buying more cash flowing assets, or saying, I'm fine to work a fun job a few more hours a week. And hey, we made it. Very interesting perspective. I think the topics that you're bringing up are topics that I don't believe many people understand the mechanics around it and how it's possible to retire in your 30s or 40s. You're actually working with the real people that are doing this, and it's not like they're hitting the lottery to make it happen. They're putting in the work and the time and being intentional with what they want out of life.

36:04A lot of people out there just believe that working until you're 65 is just the way life is and there aren't really other options to explore. Have you found that to be a part of your job as well? Just explaining that to people and opening their minds up to what's possible for them? Our generation is starting to become more familiar with the concept of early retirement and those sorts of things. And I think we're really drawn away from the traditional retirement scenario of like you work at a big company, you get a pension, then you're out at 65 and you watch Jeopardy most of the days and go play golf once a week and then head to Florida for a few months a year.

36:44I think that's a huge disconnect from that in our generation. But yeah, despite the fact that most people I work with don't want that, there's still a disconnect of bridging. Well, if I don't want that, really, what do I want and how do I get from here to there? A lot of this, again, you mentioned earlier, it's what I do is like working a big puzzle, but it's fun because it's not just these set in stone math pieces. The math is actually the easiest part of my job. It's the creativity of what do you want and what are other ways of getting here? That's the fun part. And opening people's mind to what's possible if we just consider other things besides you work, you save, you retire.

37:22What else can we do? Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. Hey, it's Sean O'Malley, just popping in with a quick message. If you like this podcast, well, I've got great news for you. We've got a handful of other shows for you to explore, from learning about Bitcoin to embracing a richer, wiser, happier lifestyle. Just go into your podcast app and type in We Study Billionaires to find our collection of shows. We Study Billionaires is our flagship podcast, and we've made a name for ourselves over the years by interviewing the best investors in the world, including Ray Dalio, Howard Marks, Joel Greenblatt, and many, many more.

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41:11So how can people sort through all of the conflicting information and know how to use it and how to apply it to their lives properly? A perfect example of this is the pay off your debts versus investing the extra cash debate. Okay, perfect. So let's say for fun, you run into that and you read an article. One, how does that actually apply to you? not just the dollars and cents, but yourself and where you're at and the opportunity cost again. If you have 100 grand set aside and you have$100 ,000 of low interest debt for a mortgage, and you're wanting to start a business next month and you need that money, paying off your house is probably a really bad idea considering you're needing to cash flow your lifestyle next month.

41:51So take your situation into consideration. Two, I guess, again, besides the soft, fluffy stuff, also the more analytical, actually, how do I weigh these conflicting articles? This article says X is good. This article says X is bad, and you need to go with Y. How do I actually know which one's true? That's tough. There's a lot of people out there who are, one, paid to just put out content despite the quality of it, or two, they're paid to sell a product. And it's really important. If you're reading an article, or even if you're going to a local financial advisor, you need to understand there's a difference between a financial planner and a salesman who just happens to sell a financial product.

42:30You've got to consider that. And yeah, if you're reading an article that talks about, hey, buying this whole life insurance policy, because it's going to be tax-free and infinite banking, and you're going to be super duper rich. Yeah, I think why would they say this? And are they also offering the alternatives to juxtapose to what they're saying and to justify why this is good? And that's a lot of information. Gosh, I can present these conflicting things about a million topics. So to take in all of these and then weigh the differences, that is heavy. Honestly, I forget if you're really involved with whatever your job is, if you work on cars, you forget that most people get nervous just thinking about a transmission because you're around them all day.

43:10I'm sort of in the business, but it's a fair question. It's tough to do. I can relate to that. There are definitely a lot of nuances when it comes of finance. And I see it with people contacting me on how they should be handling certain things, whether it be their investment strategy, retirement planning, or whatever. It can be daunting having to figure all that out yourself. So I'm curious, what are the most common goals you see from millennials you've worked with? Kinder and I are pretty prototypical of our client base. So that makes it really easy. I typically understand where are these people coming from, what they want to achieve.

43:48I don't know everybody, but I have a general understanding. Again, I've had about 30 ,000 of these conversations now. So I have a pretty good base case for what we're looking at. And then again, because my wife and I and our family are pretty, we're in the same situation. I understand what you're talking about. I understand the conversations that are happening behind closed doors too. Can I answer that question with a story real quick? Because I think we'll paint a clear picture of what this looks like. If you haven't picked on it by now, I really like what I do. I'm a workaholic because one, one, this is my job, but two, it's also just my hobby.

44:17I fall asleep every night reading about tax strategies and estate planning opportunities and investments and stuff. This is what I like. And Kendra, when she was working, she didn't get that. She was working at a... Actually had a great corporate job, but at that point, we had one kid and we were about to have a second. She really wanted to be able to leave her job and be at home with our boys. And poor Kendra had to hear me every night talk about this new client story or this new tax planning strategy that's coming around the corner. And one night, kids were down, we're having dinner, and she stopped me.

44:48I was telling her a story. She said, Jim, I just don't get it. Why do you like your job so much? It doesn't make sense. I can't stand what I do, and I can't imagine you loving what you do either. I said, well, what do you think that I do? When you picture a financial planner, what actually comes to mind? What do you think's going on at the office? When I think about a financial planner, I guess I picture an old guy in a big pinstripe suit and one of those white collared shirt and he's got cuff links on. I walk into this office and it's, yeah, it's all mahogany and a really big table. And I'm sitting in this massive leatherback chair.

45:20And yeah, I've got this guy on the other side of the table wearing this nice suit. And then we sit down for two hours and he interrogates me for why am I spending so much money on clothes and makeup? And how much money do I think I'm going to need for utilities when I'm 73? And what type of mutual funds do I want? My rate of return. And we talk about all these things. And then he gives me, after two hours of this interrogation, he slides across the table, a two-inch booklet of charts and graphs and rate of returns on investments. And I sit there and nod my head, pretending I know what he's talking about, because otherwise, I'm afraid I'll look dumb because everyone should know this, I guess.

45:54And then he tells me that, hey, you may or may not be able to retire in 35 years. Come back next year and we'll do this again. She said, that sounds like a really bad experience. One, it sounds bad for me. I wouldn't like that. But also, as you as the old man in the office, that sounds like a pretty boring job. I don't get it. Okay, if that's what you picture and it sounds so bad, what would actually be a good experience for you? What would you want if you could talk to someone about this? She sat back and she just thought for a minute. She said, I wish that you and I had someone that we could go and talk to together, that we could talk about what we want in our life and they can guide us, help us getting there.

46:35Is it possible for me to leave my job and actually be at home with the boys? What would it look like for you to actually leave your nine to five and go start your own firm? And do we need to work till we're 65? Or what does early retirement look like? Could we get a house in Jackson Hole or Telluride one day? Or is that only for the mega rich? Do we pay for college? Do they pay for it? Do we homeschool or private school or public school? All the things that we want in our life. And then also, I want someone to bounce ideas off of so I can get peace of mind for the things I'm afraid are going to happen.

47:06Someone else like, is this going to be okay? So I just wish we had someone to talk to us about what we don't have to look like. Someone else to help guide us along the way. I just got this massive grin. She said, that just doesn't sound like a financial planner. It sounds more like a life planner. I was like, babe, what you just described is exactly what I do. It's about your life. Your money is just a way of supporting that. And that's why I get excited. Frankly, I don't love numbers per se. I get excited when I look at someone's situation, say, hey, if we do X, you'll save$80 ,000 in taxes over the next five years.

47:37I don't get excited about$80 ,000. I get excited about the fact that that is all the more times you can go to Disney with your family. And that's a down payment on that cabin in the woods that y 'all can make memories at for generations to come. That pumps me up. That's why I get excited about this. So I tell you that, like that, in there is sminkered around some things. So typically, yeah, my clients, they're like us. Like, hey, can one spouse maybe leave work to be with our kids more? Or maybe we want to leave our nine to five job and start doing this fun passion project that, hey, maybe snowball into a big business one day, but that's not our goal.

48:12And again, what would it look like to not have to work forever? And typically, a lot of families want to possibly have a beach house or a mountain house one day. And typically, we want to be more generous with the causes and the people we care about, the people around us want to make sure we're supporting. It's a lot of those things. They just want to figure out there's an easier way to do it if it's possible. All these things sound so big. We don't know if it's even within reach and reasonable to do. That's a big problem, I think, with a lot of people desire this stuff. That's, I think, a reason that money is really the last taboo.

48:44It's not really talked about. Recently, a guy went around in New York, actually, before all this COVID shutdown. The guy went around New York asking people, when was the last time you had sex? And pretty much everyone answered that question. And then he asked, hey, how much do you have in your bank account? And people were telling him to get out of here. People don't talk about this stuff. And I think the reason is you show me your spending habits. You show me your credit card statement or whatever, and you show me your calendar, and I'll be able to tell you what you're valuing in your life. And the problem is one, most people have a disconnect between what they say is important to them and the way they're actually living their life.

49:17And I think a big reason for that is because if you say that you want something, but you don't think it's actually within reach, you're not going to actually live in line with that. That would be cool, but it's not possible. So I'm not going to make the sacrifices even to be able to do that. I don't remember who said it, but you can have anything you want in life. You just can't have everything you want. Most people don't realize that. So I'll just keep going and doing what I'm doing because really, is it possible to do that? I don't know. So whatever. I'm just going to keep living it. Robert Leonard After doing some research on you, I saw that you are a fan of Bitcoin, which is a topic I would love to dive into.

49:51So millennials today are faced with a very expensive stock market when analyzing traditional measures. And it makes Bitcoin potentially something that's attractive to investors to enhance returns on your portfolio. What is your take on Bitcoin and should millennials consider it as a part of their financial plan? Clay, you're going to get me in trouble with all the other financial planners out there. I take a lot of flack for this. So I'm a big fan of Bitcoin. Kendra and I, pretty much almost all of our net worth is in Bitcoin. I don't know if you have the disclosure before I have to show, but don't take this as investment advice.

50:27This is just anecdotal. But yeah, my family, about 95 % of our net worth is in Bitcoin and Bitcoin mining companies, just the way things fell and our convictions. Our clients, we're very big on Bitcoin. Last week, we hosted a seminar for our clients about buying, holding, custodying, securing your Bitcoin. This is something we're actively bringing up. I'm not waiting for my clients to ask me and I'm hiding from it because I want them to be in traditional assets. No, we're proactively talking about this. Our average client has 10 % to 20 % of their total investable assets in Bitcoin and Bitcoin-related companies.

51:00This is something we're definitely pursuing, we believe we have high conviction on. We make sure we educate our clients as to why we're doing this, what the opportunity cost and what the opportunity is here. Yeah, certainly the risk and the volatility. But yeah, this is something we're all over. You touched on asset allocation there. When you have a new client that would like to gain exposure to Bitcoin, what advice do you give them as far as an allocation towards Bitcoin? Robert Leonard Again, not to be cliche, but it depends. But again, going back, typically our clients are 10 % to 20 % of total investable assets in this space.

51:36And when I say total investable assets, a lot of my clients, like most of your listeners, I'm assuming have money tied up in a 401k. So let's just make it easy. Let's say you have$400 ,000 tied up in a 401k and you have$100 ,000 outside of your 401k to invest, and you want 20 % of this in Bitcoin or Bitcoin companies, well, then we've got to take 100 % of what we're able to manage and put that into it considering your outside assets. So that's where we're at. Technically, we could go in and do a smaller allocation and I wouldn't fight you on that per se, but we manage this with pretty high conviction.

52:08And again, we certainly make sure our clients are educated and aware of the volatility. But also I let them know there's a massive difference between volatility and risk and talking through that. One of the biggest compliments I got earlier this year was when, remember Bitcoin went from in the 60s to 29 ,000. I didn't have a single client reach out, not a single client texted or called or emailed or whatever, freaking out, no one. And why was that? Well, it's because there's two things. One, they had conviction. We talked to them about why this is part of their portfolio. And two, they knew where it fit in their plan.

52:39They weren't sitting there sweating it because we just haphazardly put it in there. Like, no, this is part of what we're doing. We're informed. It's a purposeful, intentional thing we're doing here. We're in our portfolio sizing in our overall plan. That alone goes to show how well you do at educating your clients as this asset can be extremely volatile and really test your temperament. With that, how do you recommend your clients purchase Bitcoin? This is a question I get all the time. So I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this and what you tell people, because I suspect that you get this question a lot as well.

53:16There's a few ways that we can handle it. If you have taxable assets, so after tax money, typically I'm going to advise to self-custody. So then we'll talk about the tax implications, but also the options and the flexibility with custody on your own and all of that stuff. I think that obviously purely owning Bitcoin directly is the purest way of owning Bitcoin. And that's what I advocate for. So if someone says, perfect, let's go ahead and put X into Bitcoin itself. Then we'll talk about what exchange to use. We're going either to swan or strike depending on their needs and how quickly we want to get money in and how much and all that fun stuff.

53:50But then also we look at other means as well. So if a lot of my clients, again, have money in retirement accounts, or even Kendra and I, we have a lot of our assets wrapped up in retirement accounts. So if we're in that, yeah, we can look at self-directed IRAs. But an alternative is what we look at generally is going to have an account that's allocated to Bitcoin mining companies. So we have a discretionary portfolio that we've built that currently is allocated between Bate, Marathon, and Riot. So that's how we're also getting exposure inside of a Roth IRA is going to be through those mining companies.

54:23But again, money that's already after tax in taxable accounts, we'd like to go and see and put into a brilliant Bitcoin. So someone listening to this, and maybe after hearing your personal allocation and how much conviction do you have in this, they want to go and learn more. What resources would you recommend for them to start to dive in and learn more about Bitcoin? Not to pump it too much, but I would go to the Investor's Podcast with Preston Pysh, no doubt. I mean, Preston has had a massive impact on my life. I think he's a phenomenal resource. I heard about Bitcoin in 2012, but it was from a dude who was pretty much always high.

55:00So I'd put zero weight in what he had to say. And then I've been listening to Preston Stig since 2015, I believe. And they're just smart guys who aren't just talking about meme stocks and YOLOing into stuff. They're actually analyzing the value of what they're talking about. So when they started talking about Bitcoin, actually had some weight to it. So I'm onboarding a couple of clients right now. Today, we're setting up accounts. And this evening, we're going over, I'm going to their house and we're sitting down, we just opened up Roth IRAs. We're maxing those out. We're going to put those towards those mining companies.

55:31Then we're going to take the rest of the money. We're going to sit down. We're going to open up Swan. We're going to put a pretty hefty lump sum. Then we're going to talk about the different ways to store it. We'll probably put in a cold card. But yeah, education, these new clients, these other clients, like I said, we just did a seminar with Bitcoin itself. I brought in an expert for our clients to listen to. Yeah, gosh, I share podcasts all the time with friends and clients and families. Typically, it's going to be Preston. I know Robert Brelove's got a lot of flack over the last few months, but Preston's conversation with Robert, I don't know, what was that, like nine months ago, roughly?

56:05I think it was the first episode of the Bitcoin-specific podcast. It's like that one. I mean, that's good stuff. That's a resource I utilize all the time. Robert Leonard Yeah. For those who aren't familiar, Preston Pysh has a weekly Bitcoin-specific show. That is every Wednesday on the podcast under the Investors Podcast Network. It's called We Study Billionaires. It's released every Wednesday. He's been releasing that for just over a year now. And I am also a huge fan of that show as well, have been for quite a while. Before we wrap up the Bitcoin and cryptocurrency talk, do you only recommend Bitcoin or are you open to other digital assets as well.

56:44This is a question I get all the time. What do you think of Xcoin? What do you think of this one? So what do you tell your clients? I'm sure you get the same question too. All the time. I get it a couple times a day from people. I'm only in Bitcoin. Our clients only invest in Bitcoin. My family, we're only in Bitcoin, run other cryptocurrencies. I wouldn't say I'm not open, but man, you better present a really, really good case and bring about an attribute characteristic that Bitcoin doesn't have. And I've yet to see any other cryptocurrency that has the attributes that Bitcoin has. Because of that, we have very high conviction.

57:19You can turn on my laser eyes. I guess I would self-identify as a Bitcoin maxi. I didn't know Bitcoin culture existed. I've been doing this for a long time. And I never had a Twitter until earlier this year. I got in here, I was like, oh my gosh, there's a whole culture of people who are nuts, who love this stuff. So it's pretty fun getting on Twitter and seeing these other guys out here. I definitely am one of the guys who preaches Bitcoin, not crypto, Bitcoin, not blockchain, all that stuff you hear. Well, Jim, thank you so much for coming onto the show. I really appreciate it. I really enjoyed learning more about financial planning and diving into Bitcoin with you.

57:54Before we close out the episode, where can the audience go to connect with you and learn more about you? One, you can follow me on Twitter. My Twitter handle is Jim Kreider TX, as in Texas, Jim Kreider TX. And you can go to my website for our firm. It's Intentional Living FP, as in financial planning. So Intentional Living FP. And Clay, if you want, I can actually just make a landing page directly for all those listeners. I'll make that. So if you go to intentionallivingfp.com slash millennial investing, I'll make a landing page for you guys. I'll have my calendar right up front. So if you want to put 15 minutes on my calendar, honestly, if you have just an easy question or a stupid question, you want to ask me, hey, this on my 401k or Bitcoin or tax planning or whatever, put forth 15 minutes on there.

58:35I'll be glad to take a stab at that question for you. Or if you want to talk like, hey, things are getting a little bit more complex or whatever, and we're looking for a financial advisor, what would that look like? Or who should I talk to? I'd be more than happy to chat with you as well. So yeah, definitely open a chat if I can help out in any way. Fantastic. For those interested, we'll be sure to link all of those in the show notes. Jim, thanks so much. I really appreciate it. Yeah, Clay. Thanks for having me again. I appreciate it. All right, everybody. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Please go ahead and follow us on your favorite podcast app so you can get these episodes delivered automatically.

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