MI Rewind: Cash Uncomplicated: Wealth Building Mindset w/ Aaron Nannini

22:05And so I learned those lessons and I can move on and not make those mistakes again when the stakes are a little higher. Dave Ramsey, who is one of the nation's leading personal finance authorities, very publicly and strongly talks against credit cards, which I actually agree with if and only if you're paying interest on them. He says he doesn't care if you're paying interest or not. Credit cards are just bad news, period. Other personal finance experts agree with him because studies show that we spend upwards of 50 % or more by just using credit cards than we would if we used cash. Where do you fall in this debate?

22:42Do we use credit cards or should we avoid them? I'm with you on this debate. I think if anyone is using credit cards and they're falling into debt, then they should stop using them where they're having to make those monthly payments. However, if you're someone who every month is able to pay it off and that's fine, I would say go ahead and use the credit card. I've heard that argument too, that stats say that when you use a credit card, you're likely to spend 50 % more or another amount. And I can see that as being true. And I've got a couple of ways to combat that. The first is with value-based spending, of really only buying what you truly value.

23:13I think that's going to cut down on some of that 50 % extra. And then another thing that I talk about is writing down what you purchase. So I think there's a lot of power in paying cash because it's something tangible. It's something real that you're pulling out of your wallet, giving it to someone else. And that kind of hurts. It also hurts too, if you use a credit card and then write down what you just purchased. So I think writing down has a similar effect of paying cash because it's that form of accountability. There's something real about putting things on paper with a pen. And I know it's kind of old fashioned.

23:42And for the most part, I'm using computers and digitally my phone, but that's one thing I still do write down by hand just because it's so powerful. So I think those two things are ways to combat paying extra on a credit card, but there are benefits to a credit card. I get a lot of airline miles from those. I choose to use a credit card for convenience and for those reasons. I agree that writing things down typically cements it more in your mind. But what I've found works for me is I use a software called Mint. And every week on Thursday morning, I'll wake up and I go through. It forces myself to categorize each of my transactions into different budgets that I've set for myself.

24:18And one, I'm going through every single transaction. So I'm seeing every single one. And one, the more transactions I have to go through, the more time it takes me. And I'm like, man, stop spending so much money, so you don't have to categorize so many dang transactions. And then two, I'm also seeing, oh, I spent money on this. I didn't want to. I don't really care about that. Why did I waste my money there? But then I can also look at it from a category level and say, hey, you went way over this budget this month. You need to focus on that a little bit better next month. So for me, it's because I'm a millennial.

24:44I do like to write things down probably more than most millennials, but even just going into the software and being conscious about it and actually doing this every single week on Thursdays, it works really well for me. Yeah, I agree. It's great too, because it's a form of accountability. And so I think when Dave Ramsey talks about using cash, he's really saying, be accountable. And that's kind of one broad stroke approach to use cash. And that's that form of accountability. I think it could be confusing for people because I know that Ramsey works with a lot of people who are in debt and they're trying to get out of debt.

25:10So he's trying to simplify it as much as possible. So if people like five or 10 different options of instead of paying cash, I think it would be tough for people. But just that one piece of advice, pay cash. It's easy to do for people, and then they can move on and get out of debt. So I see why he says that. But like you, I don't completely agree if you're able to pay it off and you've got some accountability measures embedded into your life, like a mentor writing it down. Robert Leonard I think he just paints a big brushstroke. And for a while, when I got into the personal finance space, as a content creator, I was very against Dave Ramsey because I didn't understand where he was coming from.

25:47First thing I learned about was his snowball method and how he recommends paying down the smallest balance first. And to me, my background's in accounting, finance, my MBA's in finance and accounting. I like the numbers. And so to me, mathematically, it just didn't make sense. Why wouldn't you pay off something with the highest interest rate first? And so for me, that kind of hurt Dave's credibility with me. And so I kind of had a tinted lens when I was reading his content. And for a while, it took a while for me to understand where he was coming from. And then I actually had a listener of the show reach out to me and say, kind of explain it to me.

26:15And it was great because it really changed my mindset where I understand Dave is coming from, he's going to help probably 80 % to 85 % of people that just need what he's helping. They're not trying to really optimize everything. They're just trying to do most of the things right. Whereas I think a lot of people that listen to this show are more advanced and they want to do all those little optimizing things that they can do to make things right for them. They're not going to go into credit card debt for the most part. They're going to actually use credit cards as a tool to get points and rewards and those types of things.

26:46So I think Dave's audience and our audience that we're talking to today is very different. And so we can give different types of advice to them. I 100 % agree with that. Because like you said, Dave Ramsey's approach is kind of a broad stroke. It's for people who, and I don't want to just generalize it all, but in general, don't have that great financial background. And they got themselves in debt, and they're good people, and they're wanting to get out of it. And this is kind of the easiest method with his baby steps. And I think that's why he goes that way. And I know earlier, we talked about the behavioral component of finance or personal finance.

27:16And that's a huge part too, because with the debt snowball, you're able to get those quick and easy wins. And I think that's very appealing for people. Whereas you and I know that debt avalanche is more optimized, but if you've got yourself into that kind of debt and you don't have that background that a lot of your listeners have, it is hard to try to pay off a debt that's$15 ,000 at a high interest rate. You're not getting those wins and you're not getting the positive feedback. That's why I think he's successful and why a lot people do well with his program. Well, that positive feedback concept that you just mentioned is exactly what I discounted when I first started studying him because I didn't realize, again, I'm such a numbers guy.

27:50I typically didn't think about psychology and emotions when it comes to money. I'm pretty hardcore with numbers. So I didn't really think about how valuable the psychology piece of it is for Dave's snowball approach. And I think he's actually right. I think he hits a nail on the head when he says to pay down to small balances because you pay that off and it might not be financially the right choice if you want to optimize. But psychologically, I mean, it looks and feels great when you pay off that small balance. Robert Leonard Leonard Yeah. You feel like you're winning, right? And there's another method too that I really don't hear a lot of people talk about.

28:18It seems like it's either black or white of debt snowball or debt avalanche. I kind of like a hybrid approach too, where maybe your first few debts, you use the debt snowball to get yourself those wins, pay off the small balances, just get that out of the way. And then as you get into your last three or four debts that you're paying off, that's where you really look to optimize because you've already had the wins. Psychologically, you know you can do it. You've had those victories. So now it's time to optimize. So I think there's nothing wrong with doing a hybrid approach. I never liked just kind of a black and white approach.

28:45I like to really think about it. So that's a method I really encourage people to look at too. Robert Leonard I like that strategy too. And I really don't have a lot of debt personally, but I have some student loans and surprisingly, I do have a car loan. That's by choice just because the interest rates are so low. But when I think about paying back debt, one of the ways I think about it, and I often struggle putting this into words, but it makes sense to me logically, but I'll try to explain it in words, is I try to pay down the debt that's going to increase my cashflow the most with paying back the least amount of money.

29:14So of my student loans, there's maybe five or six of them all with different balances and different terms. And the car loan has a different term than the mortgage and my student loans. So sometimes maybe the interest rate isn't the highest and it's maybe not the lowest balance, but sometimes on a per dollar basis that you pay off, you're actually getting more cashflow back once that is paid off. So I tend to try to focus on the loans that I have the balance, the smallest that I can pay off that will increase my monthly cashflow the most. Right. You've got a super advanced knowledge of personal finance.

29:46And so I look back to what the average American has, and it's not that knowledge base. And so I think everyone can get there. And that's one of the reasons I wrote my book too, is I was writing it for someone who was making the same mistakes that I was and kind of had that mindset. And so I want people to get from that to where you are now, where you understand all that. You can optimize, you can make decisions, you can really think about things. You're really thinking about it and you're getting optimized rates on your investments and on your debt payoff. Robert Leonard Yeah. One of the other debt payoff type strategies that I like, and I've talked about it on the show, have you heard of the term house hacking in real estate?

30:21Robert Leonard Yeah, for sure. I actually do it myself. Robert Leonard Yeah. So do I. One of the things, I have no idea if I was the one that coined this name or not. And there's certainly not a lot of people that use it, but I call it student loan hacking, where I have money that I could pay off a significant portion of my student loans or probably all of them. But instead, what I've done is I've bought rentals with that money. And those rentals cashflow pay for my student loans plus some. And then once those student loans are paid off, I'll have an asset that continues to pay forever. So I call that student loan hacking, where rather than taking that money and paying it off, I'm building an asset that'll pay for that stuff.

30:55Robert Leonard Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that's a super optimized strategy. And I don't know if I've heard someone doing that specifically, but it's just brilliant because you really are getting a lot more money off that and you're having people basically pay your student loans for you. So my total student loan payments are about 400 a month or so. We'll round up a little. And I bought a rental for 15 ,000 and it cash flows just about 400 a month. The 15 ,000 was the down payment and it cash flows just about 400 a month. And so if I have$50 ,000 in student loan debt, payments 400 a month, and I can only put 15 ,000 down, now I just paid off my student loans,$50 ,000 worth for 15 ,000, and I get to keep the asset.

31:32It makes so much sense to me. There's risk. So I'm not saying it's risk-free because there's definitely risk. Tenants could not pay. It could be a bad property. There's so many different things. And then you have to pay the mortgage for the rental and your student loan. So there's definitely risk there. But if you do it right, it can be a great strategy. Robert Leonard For sure. And I think if you've educated yourself and you've got that knowledge base and you know how to minimize that risk, it is such a great strategy because you can screen your tenants and there's technology to do that. You can run their credit score.

31:59You can call the previous landlords. There's a lot of ways to get great tenants. And I think a lot of people, especially when it comes to real estate, maybe they've had one property that they messed on. They're like, oh, never again, never again. Really, when you do it right, you can really minimize your risk. And yeah, you're probably going to have something now and then, especially the more properties you get, but you can definitely minimize that. And I think your strategy any day of the week is going to be just putting your nose down and trying to pay off that debt. Especially, I mean, they're federal loans and they're pretty low rate.

32:25I just don't see how that makes sense to quickly pay them off when they're so low and my rentals earning 35 % cash on cash return when my student loan rates 4%. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. And you mentioned tenant risk, which a lot of people poo-poo single family rentals because they're not necessarily super scalable and tons of different reasons. But for me, my business partner, I've kind of found a little niche in nice single family houses where we just get amazing tenants because in apartments, you tend to get a little bit lower quality tenant because it's an apartment. It's generally not a family and that type of stuff.

32:57Whereas if you go to a nice single family house in a nice area, good school district, we're getting amazing tenants. We have very, very few issues. They always pay rent on time. They're a family. They stay for a long time. It's awesome. And it's super low risk and we're able to get some really good returns. I'm the same as you. I like single family myself. I've been really reluctant to move up into multifamily or anything like that for exactly those reasons, because I kind of have a sweet spot of just getting a nice B-class property with good schools around, a neighborhood that where you could feel safe walking around at night, just kind of feels right.

33:28And so for me, that's my sweet spot. And it sounds like you've got a pretty similar sweet spot as well. And I found too that with that sweet spot, I'm getting less repairs from tenants, I'm getting less vacancies. And so I can kind of run my numbers a little better and increase my cashflow with that. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. Hey, it's Sean O'Malley, just popping in with a quick message. If you like this podcast, well, I've got great news for you. We've got a handful of other shows for you to explore, from learning about Bitcoin to embracing a richer, wiser, happier lifestyle.

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37:00That's theinvestorspodcast.com slash tip-finance. All right, back to the show. You talk about this concept of silent killers in regard to personal finance. Tell us a bit about this concept. That really goes back to mindless spending. There's so many people, and one of the silent killers they talk about is spending money while at work. And I see it all the time where people will be at work and maybe it's not a necessity or just because they forgot, but they're going to the vending machine or the food truck two to three times during the day. And they don't realize they're spending 10, 11,$12 on that when if they brought their stuff from home, they'd be spending about$2.

37:41If you're making$20 an hour and you're spending 10 to$15 per day at the food truck or the vending machine or somewhere else, you've immediately cut your wage, your after-tax wages. So you're not making$20 an hour anymore. You're making more like$16,$17 an hour. So you're creating a self-inflicted pay cut, probably without knowing that. And so if you just took a little extra time and were more intentional, I think that you can find snacks from home or drinks from home that are just as good as going down to the vending machine. I've heard the argument too that, well, that's how I get my break. And that's what I want to do to relax and get away from the desk.

38:14And I think you can still do that. You can still walk down to the machine and just not buy it. you can go take a break, you can get away from your desk. You don't have to go buy things to take a break. Thankfully for me, when we think about value-based spending, one of the things I don't value is food. And it's funny because a lot of my friends and family do. I personally don't. I like eating a nice, healthy meal and generally try not to eat crappy food, but I don't really care what it is. It could be cheap, nice, healthy, whatever. It's just not something I value where I value other things. So for me, work, I actually just retired from the corporate world two weeks ago.

38:46So I don't have to worry about this now, but almost my whole corporate career, I never bought meals really, very, very infrequently. And I always brought food, but I'd always see my peers and my colleagues, a lot of them were buying food. And I'm just like, man, that's a lot of money every week. I'd run the numbers and be like, man, if I did that, my sub every day is 10, 12 bucks a day. Chipotle is 12 bucks a day, five days a week, you're at 60 bucks times four weeks, you're at 250 bucks a month. I'm like, so for me, it's just like, it wasn't something I valued. I just thankfully never fell in that trap, but I know you call it a silent killer.

39:16I know firsthand that it is for a lot of people. Yeah. And I had experienced that because I'm the same as you. I've always just brought my food in. That's been fine. But I witnessed someone who was doing this firsthand. And what he was doing is every day, he would almost literally complain about having no money four or five times a week. And I would watch him. And every day I talked to him, he'd have a coffee in his hands and he'd have a pastry from the coffee shop. I'm just kind of doing the math in my head. I'm like, I think that's six or seven bucks he's talking about. He's complaining about his money situation.

39:42And then a couple of months later, he comes up in a new car that's completely financed. And I was thinking, and I didn't say it to him, I was like, weren't you just complaining about money? And so that kind of inspired me to write that portion of the chapter. Robert Leonard I've spent a bit of time talking about cars, and we have today, and the impact they have on someone's wealth. I actually had a great in-depth conversation with Jeremy Schneider back on episode 78 about this. But as always, is I'd love to hear other guests' opinions on the same topic. It gives both myself and the audience a potentially different viewpoint or speaks to us in a different way that makes it actually click.

40:18Sometimes you hear something doesn't quite click from somebody, and then you hear the same thing from somebody else, and it clicks. So I like to talk about the same concept from different people's viewpoint. What is the shocking cost of cars? And what are the myths of car loans? So the shocking cost to cars is a car is just not what you bought it for. I think people completely forget about depreciation of the vehicle. So if you buy a car for, let's say, $20 ,000, right after you drive it off the lot, you're losing it since like 5 % to 10 % of the value. In that first year alone, you're losing about 20 % of the value.

40:50So you're losing money on that. And that car is not an asset. It's a liability. It's something that's going to get you from point A to point B. And a car to me, if you really value a car and you want that leather interior, you want the speed, you want everything that comes with a nice car, go ahead and get it. But just realize what you're paying for. Whereas I think a lot of people buy a car and they're not really paying attention to that fact. So it's kind of mindless. That's one of the hidden costs. And also too, we've got insurance. I ran the numbers on a really popular SUV from 2017, 2018.

41:19And I calculated that over the course of five years, that car with depreciation fuel cost insurance cost someone$55 ,000 and$55 ,000 invested over a 30-year period. You're in the millions of dollars at that point. So that's one of those shocking costs. I was stunned by it. I knew that cars were expensive, but I didn't know just how expensive. And then going into the myth of car loans, I'm not sure how this whole myth got started. I think it was started by the car companies and with advertisements, but it seems like it was just kind of inherently thought about that when you buy a car, you get a car loan.

41:52Whether you're 18 years old or 20 years old or 60 years old, you get a loan, that's what you do. I think it doesn't occur to a lot of people to pay cash for a car or just pay right out of pocket. And so that's to me the myth of the car loan. When I tell people that I pay cash for my cars, they're like, well, how do you do that? Why do you do that? Because they just think that's what you're supposed to do. And I was having a conversation with someone the other day too. And she was saying, out of college, I just thought I was supposed to have a loan. I didn't really know better, but my next car, I'm actually going pay cash for.

42:19And I just think these myths were really just started by the car company to get you to pay a little bit more. Because I think if someone's got$5 ,000,$6 ,000, yeah, they can pay cash for a car and it's not going to be as nice. But if they're able to buy a car for$25 ,000 and finance it, that's a lot more appealing than buying that$5 ,000 or$6 ,000 car. In your situation, it sounds like you really highly value cars and you know finance, you know what you're doing. And so you're optimizing those payments and optimizing your purchase. Whereas the audience that I'm really trying to target is people who don't understand that piece and just get a car on because they thought that's what they're supposed to do and everyone else does it and that's what you do.

42:57Yeah. I do value cars. That's again, going back to value-based spending. One of the things I value are things with motors. I race dirt bikes. That's probably where I spend the majority of my money. Ever since I was probably, I don't know, 14, I've had a picture of a Lamborghini on my wall, Not because I don't care what that symbol means to other people. For me, it's the performance and the quality of that car that is just amazing. And I'm 26 now, so 12 years I've loved Ferraris, Lamborghinis, that type of car. And one day I want to own one. But I think your point is great in that for people who don't value it, or again, going back to my student loan hacking example, So I got a car loan once.

43:35It was 0.74 % interest. The rate was 1.24 % to everyday people. And because I worked at the bank, I got a 0.5 % discount. So I just said to myself, how can I not finance this money at 0.74 %? And so for me, again, like you said, I tend to optimize things. So I'll take that money that I could have paid cash for the car with, and I'll invest it in something that provides return, that pays for the car itself. Where I think people fall into trouble is that they would, in that strategy, if they had cash to buy the car, rather than buying an asset to pay for the car and then financing it, they would spend the cash on something else that doesn't produce any cashflow and they go on a vacation or whatever, and then finance the car.

44:15So they're hurting themselves in two different ways. Yeah. I think you hit the nail on the head because you are consciously doing that and you actually took the money that you saved and you purchased an income producing asset. Whereas you're exactly right. Other people are taking that money they saved and they're buying something else. That's where you get into that spiral of debt. So I think it's a lot different for you versus myself back when I was in my 20s. I didn't know that stuff like you did. And I wish I did because I think I'd be a lot further ahead right now. Well, even for me, when I was starting, I didn't know any better.

44:43I made those same mistakes. I got car loans for cars that I couldn't afford. I didn't know any better at the time either. So I've definitely been there. I like to think that I'm past that now, but I definitely have been there. You mentioned the car company is bringing it up, but I think that's definitely a piece of it. You see those commercials all the time where 0 % financing or this or that, they always have promotions around financing. So I think that's a big piece. But the other piece, I think, goes back to our conversation about keeping up with the Joneses. And you see the Joneses driving a nice 2018 SUV, whatever it is, a nice car.

45:12And you think to yourself, well, if I finance this, I could drive that same car. Whereas if I pay cash, I'm going to drive a 2010, not going to have all bells and whistles, and it's not going to look very nice. So I'm not keeping up with the Joneses. And then I think it's a cycle from there. Once you finance a car, it's hard to get out. It is. I agree. And I think conversely too, once you get out of that cycle and once you're aware of it, it's fairly easy to stay out of the cycle. As you said, you have to make that choice and figure out where you're going to be in that. They're both self-fulfilling.

45:39They really are. If you're financing it, it's hard to get out of that because you have the loan payment. And then because you have the loan payment, most people can't really save a lot of money on top of that. So then when you get to the end of your loan, maybe your car is a little bit older and you may need a new car soon. And so you haven't had time to save up money to pay cash for the next car. And so then what do you have to do? You have to finance it. And then if you pay cash, you can save up cash every month because you don't have a monthly payment. And then you can pay cash for your next car and your next car and your next car and so on and so forth.

46:04So they really are both self-fulfilling. Exactly. I'm just agreeing with you. That's the cycle. And I think car companies know that, that after five, six years, the car's not as cool anymore. And that's usually the terms of a loan too. So once that loan's paid off, there's that temptation there again, where you see your neighbor driving that nice newer car that's maybe brand new or a year or two old. You're like, well, my payments are done. My car is six or seven years old. I'm getting a new one and I'm going to finance it again. I would say probably most people don't even get to the end of their loan before they get a new car.

46:34Two, three years old. I know for me, when I first started, got my first car loan, I lasted maybe a year, maybe two years. And that's where the negative equity came in because I was like, oh, I need a new car. I'll just go finance it. And then I rolled the negative equity in. And then I think a lot of people probably fall into that trap because cars are one of those things where everything looks great until you have it. And then you have it and the novelty goes away really quick. And cars is one of those things if you're not passionate about them. Yeah, I 100 % agree. It's so easy to do. And I think there's a term for that, it's the hedonic adaptation.

47:02So that's basically your levels of happiness return back to their baseline shortly within a purchase. So your example there of six, seven months after the car, it's no longer that awesome car that you love how fast it goes in the leather seats. It's like just the same old car that's getting you to and from work. And so we have a way of returning to our baseline. And then we want to get new things to get those endorphins going again and get that excitement of a new car. Exactly. And when we get that new car, to get those endorphins, it has to be better than what we're driving. Otherwise, it's not going to do anything for us.

47:32And that likely comes with a more expensive car. And there goes that cycle again. Like I've said a couple times throughout the show, the majority of the audience is millennials. Definitely not all of them. I've had some people reach out that say, hey, I'm not a millennial, but I really enjoy your show. So definitely not all, but I'd say the majority are. That being said, not everyone is married yet, but a lot of people are probably thinking about marriage or even just thinking about how they're going to manage money with their boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever their situation is. You talk about how your most important money partner is your significant other.

48:04Why is that? How can we be successful managing money with our partner rather than adding to the statistic that says money is the leading cause of divorce? Yeah, it really is money. Those money fights are just such a huge component. And so when I say that is if you look at what your goals are, and if your goals are to save some money, buy some income producing real estate or some stocks or other type of investment, and then you meet someone who you love and they're great, but their goal is really to consume, you're pretty far off base. So you're like a level 10 and your partner might be at a level one or two.

48:36And it's really hard to go meet in the middle because you're both pretty far away. And so that's why I think it's so critical to identify that early in a relationship. And I'm not saying like on the first date, you say, hey, so what are your money goals? That's not it at all. But once you get serious, I think it's really important to have those conversations because when you do get in a serious relationship or you're married, your finances, whether you like it or not, and as much as you try to keep them separate, they are together. So if your partner is totally incongruent with what you're doing, eat away at you and kind of erupt.

49:05I'm very lucky myself. I've been married seven years now and my wife's kind of on the same page as me. She's never been into debt or anything like that. And so it's just super important to have that partner who's on the right track. It's really going to propel your finances forward. Whereas if you don't have it, it's going to hold you back. You're going to have arguments. You're not going to be on the same page. And I think it's going to be uncomfortable for you. And I know that you had decided that money's the leading cause of divorce. And I think, yeah, it's those money arguments. They're real, they're big, they're emotional, they're impactful, and it can really damage a relationship.

49:34Robert Leonard Back on episode 88, I had Aaron Lowry on the show, and we talked about this concept of managing relationships and the dynamic of money for probably an hour, maybe even longer. And it was a great episode. For me, it really, really was insightful. So for anybody listening that's interested in diving into this concept of how do we manage money with not only our partner, but siblings or parents or just any relationship with people that we have that includes money, I highly recommend you go back and check out episode number 88 with Erin Lowry. Yeah, she's great. I think she has a book out as well, right?

50:07Yeah. So she has a three-part series, Broke Millennials. And the third book most recently was about all the different relationships we have with people with money. Knowing what you know now about personal finance, what would have really jump-started your wealth building if you had known it when you were just starting out? I think of two things I would really point my finger at is my mindset. And I mentioned it earlier in the show, but my mindset was so flawed in just thinking that investing was for rich people that I was telling myself that I could not do it. And so I wasn't out looking for it at all.

50:38That was such a huge part because I was satisfied living the paycheck to paycheck. I didn't know any better. I wasn't trying to improve myself or get better. Once I realized that didn't have to be the case, my finances just improved exponentially as did my life. And then the other big thing I would look back at is I wish I would have bought more real estate when I was younger, especially when the market crashed back in that 08, 09 time period. That was just like a goldmine to buy more properties. I had bought one property at that time to live in, but if I would have bought more, gosh, my finances would have been in a much, much better spot.

51:10Aaron, thanks for joining me on the show today. For those listening that want to connect with you after the show, where's the best place for them to go? The best place is cashuncomplicated.com. There you can find my blog. You can look to buy my book. So those are the best places. And please, I've got a spot where you can email me. Please reach out. I love to answer questions and hear about what your money mindset is and some of your successes and some of your challenges too. So please reach out. Robert Leonard I will put a link to different ways you can contact Aaron below in the show notes, as well as some of his resources.

51:41Aaron, thanks so much for joining me. Aaron Leonard Thanks so much, Robert. Appreciate it. Robert Leonard All right, guys. That's all I had for this week's episode of Millennial Investing. I'll see you again next week.

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