MI Rewind: Infinite Banking with Chris Naugle

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24:18And for a limited time, you can use code STOCKS15 for a 15 % discount at checkout. All right, back to the show. So why would anybody pay it back? I guess that's my biggest question based on what you've said so far is if we're going to just essentially net it against our life insurance payout at the end, why even pay it back now? It makes good sense because every dollar you pay back is money that goes into your account that you can use again, right? And remember, the insurance company is charging you interest. They're paying you 6.2 as of 2020, but they're charging you interest. So right now, MassMutual charges 5 % on those loans.

24:51So if we take the money that you free up over on the right side from the student loans and the debts that you're paying down, and we put that back as a loan repayment, what's happening is every single dollar that you put back into your policy as a loan repayment means you have more money available the next day. Also means you're paying the insurance company less money. So if you were paying them 5 % on 10 grand and you pay back$1 ,000 every month, the next month, you're paying 5 % on nine grand, then eight grand, then seven grand. But your money always continues to go up over here because it's compounding.

25:20And that's the magic. And it's very difficult on a podcast without drawing it to show this, but it is literally something that most people don't understand. They don't understand how compound interest works. And Albert Einstein did. He called it the eighth wonder of the world, the greatest thing. And he also said, those who understand it earn it. Hence the people that use these vehicles, they're making uninterrupted compound interest. So they understand it and they're earning it. Those who don't pay it And that is everybody over here who's paying their debt every month, just keep doing it just because we think we have to.

25:48So why would you pay those loans back? Because it just makes logical financial sense and it's mathematically going to work in your favor because the more you pay back, the less money you're paying the insurance company and the more money you're making and keeping. If you had it, if you freed it up over here paying off your debts and you were used to giving that money to these debtors, but now all you're doing is you're just putting it back in your plan and you have access to that money immediately the moment you deposit it there, why wouldn't you? Well, I guess for me, the way I would think about it is just let's assume there's a million dollar payout upon my death, just say as a round number.

26:21If I owe, say, $100 ,000 in debt total, that's a lot of money in today terms. That's a lot to repay. Whereas if you just net 100 grand against a million, you're like, oh, well, I still have 900 ,000, right? That's not so bad. I'd rather just not pay that back now and then just deal with my heirs getting 900 ,000 instead of 1 million. So why even pay it back? Robert Leonard Oh, it's not about paying the death benefit back. Who cares about that? Actually, in a perfect world of infinite banking, if you could do this, it's not possible. But if you could, you would make it so that nobody gets any money on your death.

26:51That would be the perfect world because you want to use all your money. I've never met a single person in my life that cared more about the money somebody's going to get the day I die than they do about the money they have to use today. So you're getting off the main goal of why we're repaying these loans. The number one thing, and we haven't got into what the wealthy they do different. But the number one thing the wealthy do and that they understand is they understand that to make and build wealth and to keep wealth, your money has to move. It has to be in motion. So think about it. Let's take it back and talk about a bank, right?

27:20What does a bank do? You go to the bank, you deposit money in the bank. And what does that bank do immediately when you deposit it? Aren't they lending it out? There's those little cubicles right behind you. They're lending all of that money out the moment you're making those deposits. They don't take your deposit and put it in your little box in the back with your name on it. They take your dollar, even if it had your name on it. And they're lending it out to Jimbo over there in that little cubicle. And they're lending it out at between 400 and 1 ,300 % more than what they're paying you. That's how much banks make in the money you leave there.

27:46But in order for banks to make money, they have to move money. Their money has to be in constant motion. Well, okay. So now let's take that same principle and apply it to you. If you have money, the number one thing you could do with your money to make more is to move that money. So you found a better place to park your money in to put it, right? Because now you're making 6.2 versus less than 1 % in your regular bank. So you're like, that's a win. So you figured that part out. That makes logical sense. In order to make that money grow, we want to move it because I wouldn't be happy making 6.2%.

28:16There are people that would be fine with that, but to me, heck no, man. And if I'm making 6.2, but I can take it out and still make 6.2, I want to pay off the things that I'm going to get the biggest return on, student loans, credit cards, car payments, or lend it out or buy real estate. So I take it from this side and I put it over on this side and I pay off things. If your credit card is charging 19 % and you just pay your credit card off and you're making money over here at 6.2, your credit card just got paid off. That was 19 % you were giving them. But you can't recapture that 19 % unless you take the money you were giving the credit card and put it back over here in your account.

28:52You have to move the money. It goes from left side to right side, back to left side continuously until all the debts are gone. Then what do you do when all the debts are gone? Some people listen to this and when I teach this, they're like, yeah, I don't have any debt. Great. Now we can have some real fun because now we can buy real estate. Now we can go learn how to be a lender and do exactly what banks do and start lending money. I lend my money for my banking policy at 12%. But I mean, all of this stuff that we would basically talk about doing, you see, remember we get back to the process. When I found out what you're doing with your money, when I asked you those questions and you showed me, the next thing I would do is I would design a custom plan.

29:29I would engineer and design one of these banking policies because there's not one that's the same. See, a lot of people, here's the big misconception. They think that this is just any other whole life. So they run out and they go to their life insurance store and they buy a whole life off the shelf and they're like, oh, and they get the illustration. They're like, this is nothing like what Chris was talking about on Robert's show. Nothing at all. This is a scam. That's because you didn't listen. This is not a regular whole life. This is not designed like a regular whole life. It's completely different.

29:54So we would design it for your needs. Now, once it's designed to solve your problem, then we got to get you approved. Not everybody can qualify for this. So we get you approved. And then after you're approved, you make your first deposit. That's when the fun real step really starts. Because then we've got a whole team. It's called the mapping team. The mapping team is going to meet with you and design that plan to pay off all your debts or that plan to basically move this money for you. Because most people don't know how to do this. And that's the biggest problem we found is when we set these up for people, we gave them the magic machine right here that could move their money, but they don't know how to move it.

30:26So that's what we do. We build the map for you that shows you step-by-step how to basically take this money from the left and the infinite banking plan and move it over to the right, which is your life, your situation, your debts, and how to then move that. And we show you two years into the future what this will impact, what the impact will be for you. So when we do that, you all of a sudden will see very quickly why you would repay those loans. Because by repaying those loans, you're going to make double or triple the amount of money you would if you didn't pay those loans back. So what I like about this so far is that I don't know anything about this.

31:00So I'm asking these questions that are a little bit out there probably. They're a little bit off the beaten path, if you will. But I think it's a lot of the same questions that the audience is probably thinking themselves because I think they're in the same seat that I am. So one thing I want to go back to really quick, there were so many questions I came up with when you were just talking about that, so much good information. And one thing I want to go back real quick and not gloss over, because I think a lot of people probably heard it and their ears perked up and were probably like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a second.

31:24You said that banks were earning over, I think, 13 % or 1400 % on your money. Where are those numbers coming from and how is that possible? I think a lot of people, and myself included, are saying, well, they're only lending it out at 3%, 4%, 5%, 6 % on some consumer debt. So where are you getting these return numbers from? Robert Leonard It's factual data. Go to bowerfinancial.com. You can pull up any bank for any timeframe and you will see there isn't a bank out there that makes less than 400 % on the money that you leave there. Now, when we talk 400 to 1300%, what am I talking? So people are like, no, no, no, they're not making that much.

31:58I said 400 to 1300 % more than you make. So it's not how much they're making, it's how much more they're making than you. So it's very simple to understand. If I drew a circle and I showed you depositing a hundred grand in the bank. And let's just pretend that the bank pays you 4 % because you found yourself a really, really good bank. Well, the bank has to pay you that 4%, but the bank is going to go out and lend it to your neighbor to buy his house. And they're going to charge your neighbor 6%. And then your neighbor gets the keys to the house. He now exchanges that mortgage for monthly payments.

32:27So the money gets deposited back in the bank by the seller of the house. So it makes that deposit. The bank immediately loans that money back out to you to go buy that BMW M3 and they charge you, I don't know, let's just say 8 % on that loan. So then the car dealership deposits the money back in. Then all of a sudden the bank loans that money back out to someone to do a house remodel, a new kitchen and bath, and they charge 9 % on that home remodel loan. Contractors deposit the money back in, and then that money gets loaned back out to, let's just pick on your other neighbor who's a gambler and lost all of his money in Las Vegas and racked up his credit cards.

32:59So he needs a debt consolidation loan. So they charge him 12%. Now, if you took the 4 % minus all those numbers, right? Because you're making four from the bank, but the bank lent it out at six, at eight, at nine, at 12. And I think I did my math right there, but that would basically work out to be a difference of roughly 20%. So that's how much money the bank made. 20 % is how much the bank made on your money that you deposited there. But that's not right. The bank's paying you 4 % and they're making 20. So did the bank make 20 or did they make five times more than you made? The answer is five times more, which is 500%.

33:34I'm telling you, the banks make 400 to 1300%. It's factual data. Just go to Bauer Financial. Dan, don't get mad. Don't get mad at the banks. It's just, they just have learned how to do this and you can duplicate exactly what they do. Well, you can't borrow other people's money and do this. Maybe you could, I don't know, but you shouldn't. You could do it with your own money though. So that's a great question. And a lot of people get tripped up with that because they're, like, no, no, no, the bank's only charging at most 10%. So how do they make 400 to 1 ,300 %? They do, but it's 400 to 1 ,300 % more than you.

34:07Robert Leonard Yeah, that was exactly what I was thinking. I said, no, banks are only charging 6 % to 10 % to 12%. So how can that math work out? But how you just explained it makes total sense. Robert Leonard A lot of this stuff, when I presented, I draw pictures and I show that little wheel of how bank works. So it's tough to explaining it, but hopefully that helps. Robert Leonard Yeah, totally makes sense. You also mentioned that as we pay back this loan that we get, more money becomes available. Sounds like to me like a revolving line of credit, if you will. You use it, as you pay it back, becomes available again.

34:36How does that amount become available in the first place? So does somebody buy a whole life insurance policy and now they have a hundred grand they can withdraw and essentially do whatever they want with? Or how does that work? How does that money even become available in the first place? Think of this no different than what you do with your bank accounts. You make deposits in your bank accounts. You go out, you earn a living, you make an income, and you deposit that money in the bank. Well, we're going to change one thing, and we're going to change where that money goes first. So instead of it going to your bank or to the 401k or to your IRA, we're going to change where it goes first.

35:07And that's it. We just want the money to go over to this specially designed and engineered whole life first. Once it gets there and it gets deposited, the interest clock starts. You're making 4 % plus the dividend. Now, once it's over there earning that, we can take that money back out. Now, a lot of people will ask, well, how much can I take out immediately? The answer is 60 % to 90 % of the money you deposit can come out immediately. And when I say immediately, I mean in the first 30 days, as soon as your check clears. So what's the difference between 60 and 90? Plan design. That's it. It's just the way we design the plan for your needs and goals.

35:40So don't get hung up on the 90 % access. That's only the first year. It gets to be more and more after that. Literally by the third year, if you deposited, I don't know, let's just say you deposited$1 ,000 every month into your banking policy instead of your bank, that$1 ,000 becomes available immediately and you can take that money back out. So it's not fake fictitious money that's just appearing out of nowhere, it's your deposits. So you deposit the money in the account and then when you want the money, you take a loan, which is just literally you go online, you click a button or you call us and we do it for you.

36:10And then that money comes out of your account because the insurance company loans the money to you, and it just gets deposited into your account. This takes 36 hours. That's how long it takes for you to get your money. If you need it the next day, pay for a wire just like you would with the bank. So that's kind of how that part works. So you're essentially saving the money up front and then using it again on the back end. You're doing the same thing you're doing today. You're just changing one thing, and that's where your money goes first. Because your bank, I can guarantee you, is not paying you a guaranteed 4%.

36:38And even if some of you back prior to COVID were in like Ally Bank, you might've been making, I think it was about 2.something percent. What happened when COVID hit? The interest rate plummeted and now you're at 0.8. And I bet you that will drop even lower. Overnight, that happened. The insurance companies guarantee you 4%. The dividend can change, but the interest rate cannot. Robert Leonard And you also mentioned that not everybody qualifies. What does that look like? What is the qualification process? Who qualifies, who doesn't? The insurance company wants to make sure you look as good inside as you do on the outside.

37:10So it's medical. So they're going to qualify you based on your medical condition. Now, I know this is the millennials, so most of you are healthy, but let's just say you're a 70-year-old and you want to start a banking policy. You can't, but if you're insulin-dependent diabetic or you had cancer, you had a stroke, there's no way you're going to get qualified. But that's okay because if you don't qualify, you can still be the owner and then you just find someone's life to insure. Could be a spouse, could be a child, could be a grandchild, someone who you have an insurable interest in, you basically go and you borrow their life.

37:40Let me unpack that just a bit because this is very important. So let's talk about banks. Remember I said banks are the number one purchasers of this? Banks use tier one capital, which is their most secured capital, their capital that they can't risk. And they need to find a place to make more money on that. So what they do is banks basically find lives to promote or find lives to insure. Because a bank is an entity, a bank can't just go out and buy one of these. They have to have a human life to insure. So who do they insure? Well, have you ever walked into banks and not seen a bunch of different vice presidents running around?

38:11Seriously, like little black or gold badges? How many of them do you see at the bank? A lot. So why is there so many vice presidents at banks? Well, the answer is very simple. The bank needs to have somebody that they can insure and they need an insurable interest. When they make them a vice president, they become an insurable interest for the bank. That way, if the bank lost that vice president, they hypothetically lose dollar denomination. They lose some type of monetary value by losing that employee because they're an executive. So the bank says to the vice president, we're going to give you a raise.

38:42We're going to give you a fully paid up life insurance plan for a hundred thousand. And we're going to give you a deferred compensation plan, Mr. Vice President. That means that you don't have to put any money into this deferred comp. And someday later, 20 years down the line, if you actually make it that long at this bank, we're going to start paying you an income for the rest of your life. The vice president's like, oh my gosh, this is so great. I will never leave this bank. And the bank says, great. And then what they do is they go out and buy themselves a big old fancy, specially designed whole life policy, which is called a bully, bank owned life insurance on that employee.

39:14That employee lives their whole life, retires, gets their deferred comp. The bank's been moving this money the whole time. And then all of a sudden that vice president dies someday. The insurance company pays 100 ,000 to his family. They're so grateful. But then the second check gets paid. And who do you think it goes to? the bank. And how much is it? 1 million, 2 million, 3 million. I don't know. It's a big old payout. So the bank literally had this money. They moved this money the entire time. They made 4 % guaranteed on that money the entire time that this employee was there. And then when that employee died, they got all their money back and then some.

39:47You know who else does this? The Rockefellers, the Rothschilds, every wealthy family you've ever seen, probably right down to the Bidens, the McCains, they all do this. This is why they get wealthier and wealthier as time goes by, but yet nobody ever asks the question of how do they do what they do? They just think, oh, these people, they just have so much money, they can just keep making more. No, they just use things different than you do. I get so passionate about this. Robert Leonard So I want to dive into what the rich do and how they do it a little bit differently, more tactically, and more in-depth.

40:19Before we do, I have another question about the loan that you're receiving from the policy or the mutually owned life insurance company. How does it impact your credit report and your credit score, or does it at all? Not at all. You don't have to qualify for the loan. They're never going to ask any questions. You don't fill an application out. You click a button, or you call them if you don't want to log into your account. There is no credit check. It doesn't ever hit your credit. You're the bank. It's your money. You're just basically using your money. But the thing is, is your money never leaves the account.

40:49So your money that's in your account is just collateral for the loans that the insurance company lends you. But then the insurance company lends you these loans. They call them loans so that you don't have to pay tax on them. And then those loans are just subtracted from the death benefit. That's all it is. It's literally just the ultimate way to move money. That's why we don't even call it a whole life. When we talk, we call it the machine because that's all this thing does. Don't make it out to be anything it's not. All we use this for is a machine that will move your money the most efficient way possible.

41:20And if anybody ever came to me and said, I have a better way to do this, I would be all ears. And if they truly had a better way to do what we do with this silly, specially designed whole life, I would change all my presentations, all my YouTube videos, I'd change everything. But the thing I can say that for is because there is no other vehicle and there hasn't been for hundreds of years because this has been the only vehicle that works this way and probably always will be. Robert Leonard So before we get into the rich, let's talk about the typical middle-class person who's going to use this policy.

41:52Because I read this in your book with Brent Kessler over the weekend, like we were talking about before the show. And through our conversations in the past, both on the episode and offline, I've heard you say that people can use this strategy to get all their money back for their purchases. And the biggest example that I've seen is using cars. People love finance cars in America. And some of our audience that is outside the US, they send me direct messages on Instagram and they say, I can't believe you Americans borrow money for cars. We would never do that over here. So it is an American thing.

42:20It seems like a lot of us like to do that. So how can somebody use this strategy to get their money back after buying a car? Robert Leonard Robert Leonard I mean, you can see me, so your audience can. I'm lit up like a Christmas tree smiling right now, because this is my favorite thing. This is the one thing that got me so fired up when I learned about this. Somebody told me, you can get all the money back for every single car you will ever buy driving on. And I'm like, I like cars, and I like getting all the money back. So how? It's so simple. And we've already explained most of it. So remember, all we're doing is changing one thing, and that's where the money goes first.

42:50So if you were going to buy a car, there's three ways to buy the car. Number one, you can pay cash for it, which means you take money out of your bank, which stops the interest earning potential if you're using a regular bank or investments. As soon as you take it out, you stop that interest flow, and you go and you buy this depreciating car. That's cash. Number two, you could lease a car. In that, you just exchange monthly payments for the ability to drive the car, and then you have to give the car back at the end. So you literally gave the car company all the money every single month of every year you lease it for, for nothing more than the ability to rent a car.

43:20Terrible idea. But anyway, the next way you could take a loan out from the finance company, pay monthly payments to the finance company, and then own the car after five years. So what if there was another way? And that other way is what if we went to your bank? What if over three years you decided you wanted to buy a car because your car is getting old? So you started saving the money that you You were already saving your bank account, but you put it over into this infinite banking policy. And then three years later, you took a loan from your infinite banking policy and you went and bought your car.

43:46And then instead of just saying, okay, I'm done, like you would if you paid cash, you said one additional, you added one step. And instead of just paying for the car, you said, well, how much money would I have paid the finance company if I were to have taken a loan? Well, let's just say your monthly payment would have been$483. That would be 6 % on a$25 ,000 car over five years. Take that 483 that you would have been okay giving to the bank for the car loan and take that 483 and put it back into your banking policy. Essentially, what you're doing here is now you're paying yourself first by changing where the money goes first.

44:17Number two, you're paying yourself back with interest like you would have done for the bank. And then number three, you're recycling and recapturing all of the money that you used to give away. If you did this for five years, I will tell you the numbers. You will have gotten for your very first car you bought, you will have gotten 92 % of every dollar back that you paid for that car. But then after five years, your car gets old. You got to go buy another car because you want that new car smell. So you go, you do the same thing. You take money from your banking policy, you buy the car. Now your other car is still in the driveway.

44:46You haven't sold the car. You buy the next car and you do the same thing. Instead of making$483 payments to the bank, you make them back to yourself. Nothing's changed. You would have already done this anyway. And now after the five years of owning that second car, you will have gotten every single penny back for that second car that you ever paid for. You will have also made, I think the math and the one we do shows$10 ,000 a year deposits. You will have made, I think,$11 ,000 for buying that second car. Plus you have two cars in the driveway that you could sell for value. I'm so passionate about this because I buy my cars this way and I don't drive$25 ,000 cars.

45:19I had to work up to that. And I bought cars this way for a long time. So I started with used cars and I've kind of graduated through. And most recently, I bought my wife a Porsche. She always wanted this car. I did exactly that. I took the money from the banking policy. I had some fun. Let me explain how I did this. So I went into the Porsche dealership and we found the car we wanted. We did that negotiating thing that men love to do. Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back to the finance manager, slide the paper back, say, that's not good enough. Go see if you can do better. And then you just play this game for hours.

45:47And then finally they slide the number over and you look at it and you're like, all right, that's pretty good. All right, well, let's do this. And he gets all excited and he goes and gets the finance paper. I said, no, no, no, I don't need the finance paper. Well, what do you mean? Why did you have me do all that? I said, well, no, I'm going to pay cash for the car. Well, why'd you have me go to the finance manager for all this? My answer, because I needed to know how much to pay myself back. And I wasn't going to do the math when you guys would do it for me. So I literally took the money from my policy.

46:10I paid for the Porsche. Okay. Every month I paid $963 from my bank account to my banking policy. And that is a rate of, I think, 5.63 % on it. So I'm literally getting all the money back for that car. I had a ton of fun doing it. And folks, I want you to really visualize this. When you're hearing me say this, how much fun would it be of all the checks that you write every month for your car payment, if the checks you write to the credit cards, the checks you write to your student loans, wouldn't it be way more enjoyable if you wrote those same exact checks, but you deposit them in your bank, the bank that you own, the bank that you make interest on?

46:45I'll tell you something, if you're thinking in your mind that that wouldn't be more fun, because it is a blast, because every payment I make back into my bank means I have that much more money in my account. I literally love it because every single month I have more money than I did the month before, not just because of the money I'm depositing, but also because the money I'm recapturing that I used to give away. Plus, my money never stopped earning interest. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. Hey, it's Sean O'Malley, just popping in with a quick message. If you like this podcast, well, I've got great news for you.

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50:27That's theinvestorspodcast.com slash tip-finance. All right, back to the show. So when your money is earning interest, are you technically still having more become available over time? Because every month you're earning an interest. So technically the amount you have available, even if let's assume you didn't pay anything back, say you had a hundred grand in there that you could withdraw, say you earn, I don't know, a thousand dollars that month in interest, you'll take what, 90 % of that. So you now have an extra$900 that you could withdraw? You just said it. I mean, it's just mathematics. So think about it, right?

50:58You put 100 grand in the account. Let's say you're in the third year, you took 100 grand back out. You're making 6.2 % on your 100 grand because now you're three years into this. So you've capitalized your system. What I want you to understand is there's a capitalization phase. And in just any savings, there is this. You start with zero and then you capitalize your system, whether it's your 401k, your IRA, or your bank account. Well, you have to capitalize this too. So for three years, we're putting money into this account and we're building it up. Then once it's built up, let's just say this is the third year.

51:25If you deposit a hundred grand in the third year, you're going to have more than a hundred grand you can take out. So you put the hundred in, you take the hundred out. 6.2 minus 5 % is what? 1.2, right? You're making 1.2 % on money that you just took. So would your bank pay you 1.2 % on money that's not in your bank account anymore? Would Wall Street pay you 1.2 % on money that's not in your account anymore? No, but that's how this works. And it only gets better over time because if you understand how compounding works, that 100 ,000, let's just use your number, every year makes 6.2 % with dividend.

51:58So next year, you're not making 6.2 % on 100, you're making 6.2 on$106 ,500 or$200 because it's compounding. The next year, it's compounded on top of even a higher number and an even higher number the next year. You see what I'm saying? So it's the old thing. Would you take a million dollars or a penny doubled every day for 30 days. People have already heard this. So if you took the penny doubled every day for 30 days, you'd have about 5.3 million, which is far more than 1 million. That's compounding. That's what Albert Einstein understood. That's why this works. So if you did that and you took that a hundred grand out, you never put that a hundred grand back, you would continuously make more money.

52:34Let me do this because this is a podcast and just people are just listening. I want you to envision this. I want you to all take a second and I want you to visualize what I say. In your garage, you have a vending machine. You walk out to your vending machine for the first time. It's old, it's beat up. And you look at it and you're like, all right, let's see if this thing will give me a coffee. So you take your dollar bill and you put it in your vending machine. And then it gives you your dollar bill back and you're like, damn, thing's broken. But then all of a sudden you hear the cup drop and it pours a beautiful cup of Starbucks coffee.

53:00So you got your dollar bill back, you take the coffee and you're like, wow, that's a cool vending machine. But then all of a sudden you're about to walk away and you hear cha-ching, cha-ching, and there's money that falls and you grab the money. What would you do? Well, you try it again. You take that same dollar, you put the same dollar in the vending machine, and it gives you a dollar back. You're like, all right. Then you hear the cup drop, and it pours your coffee again the next day. And then all of a sudden, instead of that, then you're just, you're like, all right, is it going to give me money?

53:22All of a sudden, it goes cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching, more money than the day before. And you do this every day, every single day for weeks and for months. And every day you do this with this vending machine, it gives you a dollar back, you get your coffee, and more money falls in the change thing. You would think you found the holy grail of vending machines. Well, you know what you just found? You found the infinite banking policy that I'm talking about because there isn't a day that will ever go by that you won't have more money than you did the day before. It's impossible mathematically for it not to have more money.

53:50That vending machine is what we've been talking about this whole time. The dollar bill you're getting back is after your plan is capitalized, every penny you put in, you're going to get more money back than what you put in. The coffee is what you're basically, that's the benefit of what you're going to use the money for and the change is the compound interest. Robert Leonard I keep wanting to talk about the next step and what the rich are doing to build wealth using this. But we can't go there yet because I keep thinking of all these different questions that I know that the audience is thinking of because I know I'm thinking of them and I know we're all coming from the same point of view.

54:19So what happens if this insurance company fails? We think back to 07, 08, we're going through some turbulence right now. I'm not saying banks are undercapitalized or poorly capitalized or even insurance companies or anything like that, like 2007, 2008. But we saw AIG and that wasn't necessarily a mutually owned. Publicly traded. Yeah, right. So it's a different type of organization. But let's just focus on AIG for a second. AIG fell. Did any of their insurance policy holders lose money? Not one. Nobody that had money at AIG lost money. Why is that? And this is a publicly traded company. I don't like AIG.

54:52I'll be openly honest. It's a terribly run insurance company. If you put your money there, you're just begging to lose it. But they didn't lose money because insurance companies have, they're backed by state and the federal government. Insurance companies, if they go down, it's worse than banks going down. In 07, in 08, they let Lehman Brothers fail. They let a bunch of banks fail because they can let a bank fail. You can't let an insurance company fail. If an insurance company fails that insures just about everything or everyone, wouldn't that create a massive problem? Yeah. So number one, insurance companies are solid all on their own.

55:24I'll give you an example. MassMutual did a study, and I might have the numbers off a little, but they did a study recently because of COVID and the pandemic. and they said, if we had to pay out every death claim on the books, how much money would we have left in surplus? And I bet you people would give all different answers. There'd be some low and some high, but the answer was right around$40 billion. That means everybody that they insure dies. They pay out all the death claims. They have 40 billion left. So then I don't know how they'd fail, but if they did fail secondarily, they basically would have state insurance that would basically back them up.

55:53And then the federal government also has some type, which I don't know what it's called. It's kind of like FDIC, but way better. But the thing is, I urge any of you, go online, go to the Google and ask it. What mutually owned insurance companies have failed? If you find any big mutually owned insurance companies that are over 100 years that have failed, I'll give you five bucks for each. I'll give you a 50 bucks for each one. You won't find any. They don't fail because they don't do what banks do. They don't use fractional reserve banking where they only keep 10 % of your deposits on hand at any time to back up all the money.

56:24You see, insurance companies have always operated on a thing called Austrian economics. You guys can look that up, but it basically in the simplest form means a dollar is a dollar. So if they promise you a dollar, they have to have a dollar. Isn't that a novel idea? Holy cow, Robert, I'm going to make a promise to you for a dollar. And wouldn't it be nice to know that I have that dollar sitting somewhere in surplus? That's what insurance companies do. They have to because they do Austrian economics and that's why they've always been safer. But if they did fail, state and federal. Look at AIG. It's the worst example because they're not even close to what we use, but they failed.

56:58They failed miserably and they got rescued. So how does a mutually owned insurance company like this guaranteeing that rate of return that you're saying 4 %? Really good question. You got to remember insurance companies, they don't invest like we do. They don't invest like banks do. They don't invest like Wall Street does. They invest for hundreds of years out or 30-year blocks. So 30 years ago, insurance companies were buying 30-year treasuries, US treasuries. And they always are buying treasuries into the future because they can go further and further into the future than we could ever dream of doing.

57:29Because we'll die well before the bank's investments ever start to pay them dividends and royalties on what they've done. So insurance companies just hedge their investments for very, very long-term bets. And insurance companies also do a ton of lending. They lend a lot of money. They lend large chunks of money out in first secured positions. Insurance companies are well known for owning lots and lots of rental income or rental properties and big commercial buildings. And insurance companies also don't take risks. They don't go out and roll the dice like Lehman Brothers and do risky stock or mergers or anything like that.

58:02They're just old fashioned. The slow and steady, the turtle wins the race is how insurance companies invest their money. And insurance companies literally print money because think about it, they're in the risk business. They can tell Robert and me within a group of people when we're going to die with a very finite science. They literally know when we're going to die. It's freaky, but that's what actuaries do. So if they know when we're going to die, they know exactly how to price their products, how to price the cost of insurance so that they never, ever have a mistake. The only mistake they can ever have is a pandemic like COVID where mass amounts of people die, and that insurance company had to factor that in, but they factor those numbers in too, which is why they do these stress tests.

58:40So very unlikely that large, big, big mutually owned insurance companies go belly up. Banks will all go down before the insurance companies do. All right. So let's take the next step. We've been talking about getting our personal finances in order, paying off debt, getting that piece taken care of. And I think that's really good. I think that's where it's going to be really beneficial for a lot of people listening. But now let's take the next step. Let's look into the future and see what we could do with this going forward. So what are the rich doing with this type of strategy or policy to really build wealth once they're done with securing their personal financial position?

59:12Preston Pysh And that's where we can really just start using some other names of people that used it. So Walt Disney, okay, Walt Disney World was created using a loan from his life insurance policy, not just a life insurance policy, a whole life policy, because back when he was starting that, there wasn't money, he couldn't get loans from banks, so that's what he did. How about Ray Kroc, McDonald's? It's very well noted and documented, and you can Google it. Ray Kroc used his whole life to launch the Ronald McDonald marketing campaign. He also used it to help pay employees. Who else? Pampered Chef, Doris Christopher, She started Pampered Chef, which was later sold to Warren Buffett for some, I was disclosed at some couple billion dollars.

59:50She started that with her whole life. Foster Farms in 1939 started from a whole life because during the Great Depression, people didn't have money. J.C. Penney's or James Cash Penny, J.C. Penney, was started during the Great Depression using the whole life policy and also used that whole life policy to support and pay his employees during those hard times. So when you look at all these different people, and I could even go into Stanford University and Oprah, they're all using this. Biden, McCain, all these people, they're using it to fund their campaigns for their political things. McCain's no longer with us, but openly used his whole life policies to fund his campaigns.

1:00:26Biden, the same thing. I wish I knew if Trump did, because it would be more of a level playing field. He probably does too. So what these people are using it for and what the Rockefellers used it for is far more than paying off debt. Those guys aren't paying off debt, man, they're using it to start new businesses. They're using it to lend money, right? They're going out there and lobbying with the money. I use mine, because I don't have debt, I don't pay off debt with it, to buy my wife, Portia, or my wife's Portia. I also loan a lot of money to real estate investors. So the ultimate in real estate is to be the bang.

1:00:55Well, to be the bang, this is the ultimate tool to use to lend it. Because now when I'm lending it out at 12%, am I only making 12? No, I'm making 12 plus the money my policy is making. I'm making money twice. If I'm doing a flip, I can make money three times. I can make money on the policy. I can make money on the flip. And then I can also loan the money to my LLC at six or 8 % and make money as a hard money lender to my own real estate deal. You see, there's so many ways to use it. It's why it's called Infinite. There's no cap on what you can do with this. A lot of people don't like paying quarterly taxes if they're self-employed.

1:01:25So why don't we use your policy to pay your quarterly taxes? You can get all the money back for that. How about boats? People like boats. What if we you get all the money back for all the boats we're ever going to buy. Buy, drive, and float. There's no cap on what you can do. I focus on real estate. That's my thing. That's what I do. So I use my plans primarily for real estate, to buy real estate, to gap fund rental deals when the bank won't give me all the money, to lend money primarily lately because I'm not buying as much real estate because I just think it's too overpriced right now. But those are the ways that you can use this and the ways I'm doing it.

1:01:56There is no wrong way to do this. Heck, my mentor, you know what he uses his for? Every month, he uses his credit card to pay all of his bills, all of his household bills, and he lives a pretty good life. And then every month, he goes to his policy, takes a loan, pays off his credit cards. He flies for free, clearly, because he's got airline points. And he's just using his policy to fund all of his expenses. Now, I don't want anyone listening to be like, okay, I'm going to start one of these and pay my rent. No, he has had his plans for many, many, many years. So they're capitalized, they're efficient.

1:02:25In the beginning, these plans are not as efficient as what his are. So you wouldn't want to use them for that, but you can. It just goes on and on. Robert Leonard I put a poll out on Twitter after our first conversation on the Real Estate Investing Show, asking people if they thought that there are secrets that the wealthy know that the financially educated non-wealthy person, so somebody who isn't rich yet, but they're well-educated on personal finance and investing, so they know a thing or two. Are there things that the wealthy know that they don't know? And almost everybody said that there is not.

1:02:57And I put a similar poll out on Instagram, same results. Why do you believe this concept isn't more popular in the financial media? Why aren't more people using it? There's a two-part question. Let me go back to the Twitter thing. The Twitter and the Instagram, you put that out there and most people truly believed wholeheartedly. They didn't even think about it. They all said, no, the wealthy don't do something different than we do with money. They are completely wrong. And it doesn't surprise me in any way that that is what the poll came back because every single person is trained really well to not be in control of their money.

1:03:28So therefore, when they're posed with a question that says, do the wealthy do something different than you do with your money? They said, no. Well, the easiest way to sum up that question is literally a famous quote by Will Rogers. And Will Rogers said, the biggest problem in America is not what people don't know. The biggest problem in America is what people think they know that just ain't. So who are you getting your advice from? The people that all said no, who are they taking and getting advice from? Is it their banker? Is it their financial advisor? Is it their circle of friends that do nothing but complain and complain about the world that they live in because they can't find positivity in today's world?

1:04:02Who are you getting your advice from? Are you getting your advice from the people that are living your perfect day or living the life you want to live? Probably not. So therefore, it doesn't surprise me at all that every single person that was asked that question doesn't think that the wealthy do something different when in fact and in reality, they absolutely do. So then the second part of that question, why is it that this is not more popular in the financial media? That is the easiest question to answer. It comes down to follow the dollar. Why is it that if this is such a great concept that not every banker that you speak to, not every financial advisor you meet with isn't talking about this?

1:04:37And I'll tell you exactly why, because I was that guy for 16 years, high level financial advisor, never once learned about this and never once talked about this. Even if I did know about this, let's just say I was gifted and I learned about this while I was an advisor, which I did. Why wouldn't I have gone out and done this? Because I would have made 60 to 90 % less money than I was. So in order to do this, the way that I just described, the way that we've been talking about this the whole time requires the advisor, me, the IBC practitioner to take 60 to 90 % less in compensation in commissions from the insurance company so that you can benefit more.

1:05:15So in other words, if you had access to a plan that gave you access to 90 % of your money immediately in the first 30 days, why would that be? It's because I gave up 90 % of my commission. So you have access to 90 % of your money. Folks, listen, the biggest thing that most people will never understand because they want to sit there and put that barrier up and say, oh, that sounds too good to be true. Oh, that's a scam. Oh, that's not real. Great. You fit right into what Will Rogers said. And that is exactly why he said that. Because the people that actually did one step deeper learn that, that in life, it's all about if somebody gives, they get.

1:05:49Well, to do this, somebody has to give. The banks use this because they don't pay advisors to do this. So it works for them. The Rockefellers didn't pay advisors for this. They had so much money they didn't need to pay commissions. But you and I, and most people out there, they have to use somebody like me and I don't work for free, but am I willing to give up 90 % of my commission so that you have 90 % of the money? Well, ask our 3 ,300 members and you'll get the answer to that. The answer is absolutely because we believe that the power of this comes in numbers. And the more people we can help, the more money we can make.

1:06:20It's about volume. And I'm trying to think of the quote, but if you help enough people get what you want, you get what you want. Zig Ziglar. Exactly true. We are wildly successful with what we do here, but that's because we've helped a lot of people get what they want before we got what we wanted. That's the answer, man. There's no other thing I can tell you that is more true than that statement right there. Robert Leonard So outside of the infinite banking or money multiplier concepts, there are two other personal finance or just general money management concepts that you talked about in your book that I want to spend some time talking about.

1:06:54The first one is this idea between the difference in interest rates. We briefly talked about it before, but I want to dive into it a little bit here. As you noted in your book, people often think that just because they're borrowing money at 6%, and earning 4 % in a savings account that they're losing money. When in reality, that's not necessarily the case. Explain how this can be. I do this all the time and I do it from stages of thousands of people. And I say, is it possible for you to make more earning 4 % when you're paying six? The entire audience immediately will say no. And some people will probably be thinking, man, you're an idiot.

1:07:27I thought you were America's number one money mentor. Six minus four is negative two. I'm losing 2%, you dummy. Well, that's because you simply just don't understand how math and money works, period. So what is the difference? It's very simple. We've been talking about it this entire time, compound interest versus simple interest. See, but if we took$100 and you made, let's just do 4%, you made 4 % on$100, okay? You have$104 next year. So that 104 then earns 4%. So 104 times 4 % is what? And then we keep doing that. So that number just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger. That's compound interest.

1:08:04You can do any math with that, right? The rule of 72 is all about that. So if you're in 7.2%, your money doubles every 10 years. It's compound interest. Simple interest. We take that same$100 and we charge the same 4%. Every single year, it's going to be that 4%, which is$4 on every year. It's never going to be more than$4. So when you have a loan that's 6%, you're paying$6, okay? At 6 % every year. I think if I'm doing my math right, I'm pretty sure I am. $6 every single year. But then over on the other side, you're earning 4%. So that 4 % isn't just 4 % the next year, it's 4 % of what your company just keeps going up.

1:08:41So eventually you can make significantly more earning 4 % compound interest when you're paying 6 % simple interest. I do a really cool example of this that just blows people's minds. And it is just math. Robert Leonard And the other component is usually you have a declining balance. So therefore, your interest rate that you're paying, which may look higher on the surface, is actually on a smaller balance as it's declining. So that's also playing into the component of it. Robert Leonard You're paying attention. But that goes right back to remember earlier, you were saying, well, why would I pay the loan back if I don't have to?

1:09:13You just answered your own question. Why would you not pay that loan back? Because now you're decreasing that loan balance, which is being charged simple interest, while your balance is going up, you're just making more money. Unless you don't like making money, well, then fine, don't pay the loans back. Because you think that paying a loan back is a bad thing because you hate paying loans. This is your bank, your money, your loan. You're just paying your bank back, that's all. It doesn't matter anything else. It's just a way to make more money. If I showed people the math on this, which we can't do it, people would fall out of their chairs.

1:09:43They would literally not even believe it. I would show them a plan, my plan, which I'm putting$10 ,000 in. I'd show them in the fifth year, I made 11.6%. And they're like, that's impossible. You said you're only making 4 % plus dividend. Correct. Compound it. In the fifth year, I'm making 11.6. Want to take a guess at what I make in the 10th year? Drum roll. 96%. Shall we keep going? Because the further down that line I go, the more time that elapses. And remember, I didn't just park my money and leave it there. Every year, I'm taking that money out and I'm making more on it. So I'm only talking about the money that my plan is making, not what I'm making on the outside.

1:10:18I'm loaning that money out at 12. So that's on top of all this. That is the power of what we're talking about. And unless I can show people the numbers, they understand it, concept, but they can't really fathom it until they actually see it. Robert Leonard Chris has some great YouTube videos that go over this. So I'll be sure to put links to those in the show notes. So I highly recommend you guys go check that out. Check out his website, read a little bit more about this. I think this concept, I don't think it's overly difficult to understand. I think it's something that a lot of people can understand.

1:10:42They just don't put in the time or frankly, they probably just don't even know that this discrepancy or dynamic even exists. So that's why I wanted to bring this up because I think it's important for you guys to understand and learn. And even if you think you know finance and investing well, this might be a concept that you just haven't heard of yet. And so I wanted to bring that up. And another one that's similar is this idea of the rate of return, the net return that you're actually receiving on your investment, and the average rate of return. Provide an example and explain why it's important to look at the net gain you earn rather than just your average rate of return.

1:11:14And this is where I can really kind of teach people that what they've been taught is really one big lie. Because as an advisor, we are always taught about the average rate of return. This mutual fund pays an average rate of return of 25%. So if I showed you an investment that paid you an average rate of return of 25%, you'd probably be like, man, that sounds awesome. Get me into that, right? Everybody would be like, that sounds great. Well, how about I just dissect that for you? Because let me pull the curtain down and take you behind the scenes to show you what that actually is. Let's just say I'm your advisor and you give me$100.

1:11:45So Robert gives me a hundred bucks and I'm a good advisor. So I make you a hundred percent. I invested in Apple or something, right? I made you a hundred percent. So your$100 just made a hundred percent. So it's 200 bucks. You're excited, right? Yeah. You're like, all right, man, Chris, do it again. But the next year I just bet on the wrong one and I lost you only 50%, but I made you a hundred percent the first year. I lose 50 % the next year. How much is in your balance or how much is your balance? 100. Okay. But then you're like, well, that sucks, but Chris, do it again. So I make you 100 % again.

1:12:13Okay. So now you're up to 200 bucks. But then the last year that you have me as your advisor, I lose only 50%. So I made you 100, I lost 50. I made you 100, I lost 50. How much money do you have left? $100. How much did you start with? $100. Plus you had to pay me a fee. I charged 1 % or I did when I was an advisor. Plus you had to pay tax on all those gains if it's not in a deferred account. So did you actually make money or did you lose? Well, you lost, but not according to the average rate of return. How much did you actually average there? 25%. Folks, take off the rosy colored glasses. I had to.

1:12:48When I learned this, I was so mad because this is what I was fed as an advisor. This is what I was taught to talk about. This is what I was taught to sell. And there's nothing wrong with that. That is actually the math behind that. That is an average rate of return, 25%, but you made nothing. You have to understand how money works. And unless you do, then you are doing nothing but conforming with what they want you to know. See, the wealthy, and I think we're going to go there, but the wealthy don't conform. They create. And in creation is wealth. So we've talked about the infinite banking policies.

1:13:19We've just talked about these two personal finance concepts that I'm assuming the wealthy probably know and take advantage of. So what else are the wealthy doing that we might not be doing? Well, like I said a second ago, the wealthy create, they don't conform. So we've been taught to conform and just go along with the flow. And that's basically created the destiny that we live. But if you really were to dissect the poor, the middle class, and the wealthy, you really have to understand what they do with money. So this is interesting. The poor make money, but then they spend the money on expenses and there's very little to save.

1:13:49That's what classifies that. The middle class is different. When I say the middle class, I mean people that make millions of dollars. They make money, they spend money on expenses, and they in turn then turn their money over to advisors or banks and put their money in retirement accounts. Essentially, what they're doing is giving up control of their money. Then you got the wealthy. The wealthy do something totally different. And this is kind of the one thing. So wealthy do make money, they have income, but they take that income first and they change where that money goes and they put that money into assets, assets that create passive income.

1:14:18Now that might be loans, that might be real estate, that might be these infinite banking policies. The wealthy don't work for money. Their money works for them. They have found ways to make their money work for them. Most people work for money. They haven't learned how to make their money work for them. The biggest thing wealthy people do is they make their money work for them. And they understand the velocity of money. They understand how to control their money and how to always have their money in motion. They also understand how to create things, whether it be businesses or opportunities. That is the single-handed, the biggest thing.

1:14:49And if you just change your habits, you can change your results as well. Robert Leonard, Ph.D.: Chris, thanks so much for coming on the show today. Just like our last conversation, I learned a ton throughout the episode, and I'm looking forward to diving in more myself. For those listening that want resources to study the concepts that we've talked about today, and they just want to dive in further, or they just want to connect with you directly, where should they go to find these study materials and where should they go to connect with you? Chris Bounds, Ph.D.: I'm a firm believer in giving everything away for free.

1:15:16So if they just go to my website, chrisnoggle.com, they can go in there and they can get my books for free. They can get all these trainings for free. They can learn about everything we discuss, but see the videos and the visuals behind it. It's all free. Just go to chrisnaugle.com. Those that want to communicate with me, Instagram, thechrisnaugle on Instagram. That's the best place to find me and I'm very active. And if you guys follow me on Instagram, I have a similar username, therobertleonard. And I post about Chris. I post about his book. You followed me over the weekend. I was posting all of my story about different notes from the book and all kinds of different information there.

1:15:48So you guys can follow us both on Instagram. I'll be sure to put links to all of the resources to connect with Chris in the show notes. I'll also put links to all the different topics and concepts that we talked about throughout the episode in the show notes. You guys can go read up on that as well. Chris, thanks again so much. I really look forward to doing this again. Chris Hustle Me too. It was my pleasure and I can't wait to, would that be go round three? Round three. All right, guys. That's all I had for this week's episode of Millennial Investing. I'll see you again next week. Thank you for listening to TIP.

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