MI Rewind: Studying Superinvestors, Investing Checklists, & Seritage Growth Properties w/ Tom Botica

22:54How do you approach investing in the US and New Zealand, investing in other countries? Are you mostly a US focused investor or how are you approaching that? Yeah, I'll invest more or less anywhere if I think I have a good enough understanding of the culture and the business. I think the culture part is probably the hardest bit to fill in if you're not really familiar with that country. For people outside of the US, most people can get there on the US culture pretty easily, I would say. We are exposed to a lot of US companies and maybe it's not the best way of understanding the US, but we get a lot of film and media and so on come out of the US and things.

23:31So I think we get a pretty good handle on kind of what the US is all about. So that's kind of a simpler enough one for me to get my head around. And then New Zealand, New Zealand's obviously kind of my backyard and I've been to Australia a few times as well and very similar culture to New Zealand. So I can get there on a lot of those kind of companies as well. So I'll look anywhere as it stands right now. The bulk of my portfolio is actually in the US. That's more of a consequence of just the opportunities that have come up more than anything. The US has some great resources like 13F filings, for example, where we can see what great investors are buying.

24:04And that's a really good way to kind of source ideas. And that has led to more investments in the US for me. But if something came up in New Zealand and Australia, I would actually probably prefer to buy those. There's some tax differences for me between buying something in New Zealand and buying something in the US. In the US, for example, you guys have effectively double taxation when you get paid a dividend. The company pays money on the profits and then you pay money on the dividend as kind of personal income. We don't have that in New Zealand. When we get paid a dividend, we have something called an imputation credit that kind of comes along with that dividend, which is essentially like a tax credit to avoid that problem.

24:38Australia has the same thing. They call it franking credits over there. When I buy an Australian company, I can't actually benefit from those franking credits. So there's a few things to kind of keep in mind around that from like a technical perspective and taxation and so on. But I'll look more or less anywhere if I think I can get my head around it. Yeah, that makes sense. I hear of many people in the US that are looking international to try and find that additional value. There's been a lot of talk and chatter lately about China, and people are kind of hammering down on Charlie Munger on his Alibaba pick, and some other people are invested in Alibaba as well.

25:13Is China a market you're interested in at all? I'm curious what your take is on them. Yeah, I have an investment in Alibaba as well. So I take this with a grain of salt, I guess, when you hear my answer. But China, I think, is probably one of those ones that is really starting to get on the fringes in terms of me being able to understand the culture and that sort of thing. For that reason, I think investors probably have a simpler time sticking with the really large, more well-known Chinese companies like an Alibaba or maybe a Tencent or JD.com, that sort of thing. When you start getting into Chinese micro cap territory, that's basically an automatic no for me.

25:50It's just really hard to understand what the competitive dynamics might look like in a micro cap Chinese fintech company or something. So those are kind of an easy pass for me. But I think with the larger companies, you can get your head around these things. With companies like Alibaba, there's been some great books written. There's interviews with a lot of the insiders of the company, obviously previously Jack Mar, but he's less and less kind of involved with the core Alibaba business now. So I can kind of get there on those larger companies. The other thing is that, and Charlie Munger said this at the Daily Journal meeting a couple of days ago, the large companies in China are just flat out cheaper than the similar types of businesses in the US.

26:32And of course, there's risks that come along with that. A lot of people will know about the VIE kind of structure when you buy into something like Alibaba, where you're really buying a derivative type ownership of Alibaba through a Cayman Islands entity. So there's certainly additional risks, but the companies by and large are cheaper. And assuming that if you have a view that these risks aren't going to materialize, and that's something that people can debate all day long, but if you have a view that these risks are kind of a little overblown, then if they're cheaper and they're potentially even slightly better businesses as well, that can lead to better long-term returns if you're willing to swing at those things.

27:11Yeah, it really just takes the additional research to really understand the business and the environment it's in. And like you mentioned, the culture as well. Let's shift our attention to a business you believe has a ton of margin of safety, as we discussed earlier, and that's Seritage Growth Properties. This is a holding that Guy Spear and Monish Pabrai have according to our TIP Finance tool. I think this is an interesting pick that I don't think investors will find too often nowadays. Could you tell us about what Seritage Growth Properties does and how it even came up on your radar. Yeah, sure.

27:48So a slight correction there on the Monish Pabrai front. So Monish Pabrai does still have a holding in Seritage, but he's actually recently been selling out of it. So he has a large enough stake in the company to be forced to file a 13G filing, which is basically if you own more than 5 % of the shares outstanding, you have to report any activity in terms of buying or selling those shares much more quickly than something like a 13F. I forget the exact length of time, but I think it's within four or five days, something like that. They have to file a 13G. So in January, Pagrai sold about 26 % of his position in Syritage.

28:24And just two days ago, literally as we're recording this, he sold about two thirds of what he had left after that January sale. So it seems that Pagrai is on the way out, which is quite interesting. Guy Spear has a YouTube channel with another investor called Matt Peterson, who runs a relatively small fund, but with a phenomenal track record. And those guys were still talking kind of quite positively about Syritage. Both of them are in that position. So the Pabri sale is an interesting one to me. I sort of wonder whether it's an opportunity cost thing and he's maybe found just something more interesting and maybe Syritage was a kind of lower conviction idea for him.

28:59I'm not 100 % sure. I know if you follow Pabri on Twitter, you'll know he's just been to Turkey and maybe you found something interesting over there. I'm not too sure. But that's the super investor ownership in terms of the actual business. Searitage is one that's been floated around value investing circles for a number of years now, and it's been a pretty poor performer. It's basically a REIT, a real estate investment trust that was spun out of Sears pre-bankruptcy. So they currently own about 170 properties, largely ex-Sears stores. When the spinoff first happened in, which I think was about 2015 or so, a lot of the real estate was still rented out to Sears and Sears tenants were paying about$5 a square foot in annual rent.

29:39And the story at Searitage basically is they are redeveloping and even densifying a lot of these different sites. Oftentimes you have sort of a big portion of land with a Sears store in the middle and huge parking lots kind of around it. So in many situations, they're bowling those over, putting up apartment buildings or larger retail complexes and that sort of thing. And like I say, densifying it so there's more leasable area for new tenants. And the new tenants over the past few years have been paying about four times the rent. They're paying$20 a square foot, even pushing close to$30 a square foot in some cases recently.

30:12So that's the story with Syritage. They're still very much in this redevelopment phase. They're selling off some of the properties that they view as less attractive for redevelopment. They don't think they can earn high returns on deploying cash into those properties. And they're taking the proceeds from those sales and putting them into their larger premier developments and that sort of thing. So that's the process and it's very much still playing out and the stock has been getting slaughtered as I've been going through it. So I think for the longest time, Sera just kind of floated around anywhere from maybe$30 to$50 a share, that sort of range.

30:46When the pandemic hit, it went all the way down to as low as I think about$5 a share. And that's kind of when Pabrai was buying, maybe in the$5 to$7 range. Guy Spear was actually in it pre-pandemic. So he was probably in somewhere in that$30 to$50 range. And currently, I think it trades at$9 or$10. So it's still very much down there. I've recently gone through the exercise of literally one by one getting comparable sales for every address that Syritage has. So I've got no affiliation with this company or anything, but there's a website you can go on. And there's a few of them. There's one called Crixie was the one I used and you can basically take an address for a Seritage property, throw it into Crixie and get comparable sales data.

31:25So you can look for similar size properties with a similar use. Oftentimes just down the street, there's been a huge amount of sales volume in commercial real estate recently. So there's pretty good comparative sales data out there. And when I went through that process and tried to value each of these properties, I was landing on roughly about$4 billion in real estate for Seritage all up. they're quite heavily indebted. So they have about 1.6 billion in debt to Berkshire. They actually paid off, I think, 150 million of that recently. I apologize if I'm saying too many numbers here and it's confusing people listening, but we have about 4 billion in real estate.

31:58We have call it 1.6 billion in debt to Berkshire, a little bit of preferred stock in there as well. But I guess what I'm landing on after going through all that work is a liquidation value for serotage growth properties. If they were just to sell everything today, pay off the debt and distribute the process to shareholders. North of about$30 per share versus a current stock price of nine. Now, there's a few things hanging out of Seritage maybe which we can get into with the debt and the development timelines and so on, but that's the current situation. So it seems like a lot of margin of safety at the moment, although Seritage does currently have negative cash as they go through this redevelopment process.

32:38So it's very heavily shorted. There's clearly a lot lot of people that have the view that Syritage is just going to burn money right through to bankruptcy. And that's kind of how it's going to play out. But if you have a view that they can come out the other side of this okay with a lot of cashflow and real estate, then the upside looks pretty attractive too. You had mentioned off air that there's a property in Texas that accounts for much of the real estate that they own in terms of the market value of that real estate. Could you talk more about that piece of land specifically? Yeah, sure. And this is one of those developments that has a ways to go.

33:13One of my subscribers, actually, this is one of the cool things about doing YouTubers. One of my subscribers actually did a drive-by of the Dallas property the other day and sent me some photos. So it's quite cool to have a little bit of intel in the region. But yeah, so like I said, SRG has about 170 properties. Within the 170, they probably have about five or six that are really going to drive a lot of the value for shareholders, assuming that they can get through this redevelopment process. One of them is a property in Dallas. That's really the big one. There's plans that you can look up in terms of what they think that might look like.

33:45It's what they call one of their premier mixed use properties. So it'll be a mix of apartments and retail, and I think potentially some office as well. And that is planned to be about 2 million square feet in leaseable area. So if you start to try and arrive on some of the values of what something like that could be worth, 2 million square feet times, looking at market rents in the area for a blended kind of average rent across all these different types of real estate, maybe $25 a square foot. Cap rates on that type of real estate are probably conservatively 7%, something like that. You could argue it's closer to 6%, which is the equivalent of a higher PE ratio, I guess, just in real estate terms.

34:26You could quite easily land on that property being worth half a billion dollars potentially. And I just mentioned that I think the full 170 any properties are worth maybe$4 billion. And if half a billion is coming from one property, that's pretty serious for Syritage. And that's not the only premier development. That's definitely the biggest one, but there's a handful that will definitely drive a lot of the value for SRG. Yeah. You mentioned that one property itself could be worth half a billion and the stock right now is trading at something like$400,$500 million. So just that one property out of the$170, what are they developing that property in Dallas to be specifically?

35:02Is it apartment buildings or what is that there? I'd have to refresh my memory on the exact plans, but my understanding is that's going to be a mix of things. So from memory, it's going to be about 400 or 500 apartment units, quite a bit of retail space and something else that I'm blanking on as well. I can't quite recall if it's office or another use, but it's a whole mix of things. And that's kind of the theme across all of their premier developments. And yeah, like you say, the market cap is about 400 or 500 million at the moment, but you've got to keep in mind the debt. they've got$1.6 billion in debt.

35:32So the enterprise value is closer to low$2 billion, something like that. Yeah, good point. My initial reaction when hearing about a company like Certage, many of these value investors are saying the liquidation value is well above what the stock is currently trading at. My question is why? Why is the market valuing it so much lower than where it's at? The market doesn't have any free lunches according to the efficient market hypothesis. So what are the risks with seritage? Yeah, it's a funny one. I always try to take the manga idea of invert, always invert. So I actually have a video on YouTube that people can look up called something along the lines of why seritage growth properties sucks.

36:14And I just went through all the reasons, all the things that could possibly go wrong. And yeah, there's definitely some hair on it. I mean, I don't quite know what else to say. There's a lot of debt, 1.6 billion in debt to Berkshire, they have recently renegotiated the terms on that, but it is quite expensive debt. I think they pay about 7 % interest on that debt. They have an additional$400 million they can borrow from Berkshire, which they haven't drawn down on yet. And they can only borrow that if they meet certain net operating income targets. But in the meantime, they still pay 1 % interest on that debt.

36:45And previously, all of that was due, I believe it was mid-2023. And Syritage is not going to easily be able to come up with$1.6 billion in cash unless they liquidate a lot of their properties really fast. And their intention is to liquidate properties to fund redevelopment projects and so on. So that's definitely something hanging over them. Like I said, they've renegotiated that debt structure a little bit. So now 800 million is due mid-2023. So only half of that amount rather than the full 1.6 billion. And the other 800 million is due mid-2025, I've, I believe. So that gives them sort of an extra two years of runway.

37:21And the CEO, Andrea Olshin has been at the helm maybe 18 months now. She has given a lot more clarity to shareholders on what their actual plans are. There's a document you can now look up for I think it's the Q3 financial supplement, which lays out every single property and it says, these ones are going to be retail. These ones are going to be apartments. These ones are just categorized as other, which to me, that means they're going to be sold to generate funds for the redevelopments. Previously, we didn't have that. So that's very useful from a valuation perspective. There is a lot of concerns about just the sheer price of redevelopment.

37:54We see every single day at the moment on financial media about supply chain issues and raw material costs and so on. So the developments are likely to be more expensive and probably take longer than initially planned. Eddie Lampert owns about 40 % of the shares, more or less through some of his partnerships and people have mixed views on Eddie Lampert. So that's kind of hanging over it as well. And there's been negative cash flows for a long time. And I think in a lot of ways, people have kind of just given up on seritage and they've either thrown it in the too hard basket or they just maybe can't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

38:29I'm not sure, but it's certainly not risk-free. It reminds me a little bit of BP a few years ago when they had the big oil spill. And these numbers won't be right, I don't think, but it should give you a feel for the situation. I think, let's say BP was trading at roughly$40 a share kind of pre-oil spill. And it very quickly shot down to about$20 when that happened. There were a lot of people that had the view that it was going to zero. There were a lot of people that had the view that this is a short-term event, they'll pay some big fines, but it'll probably go back to$40 after that. So you have sort of people in two camps.

38:58They think it's either worth$40 or they think it's worth$0. And what we know for sure is that it's definitely not worth$20, but that's where the market had priced it. So So I think there's maybe a similar situation happening at Syritage where you've got two people on different sides of the aisle and the market price kind of just lands somewhere in the middle. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. Hey, it's Sean O'Malley, just popping in with a quick message. If you like this podcast, well, I've got great news for you. We've got a handful of other shows for you to explore, from learning about Bitcoin to embracing a richer, wiser, happier lifestyle.

39:31Just go into your podcast app and type in We Study Billionaires to find our collection of shows. We Study Billionaires is our flagship podcast, and we've made a name for ourselves over the years by interviewing the best investors in the world, including Ray Dalio, Howard Marks, Joel Greenblatt, and many, many more. My colleagues, Stig Brodersen, Clay Fink, Kyle Greve, Preston Pysh, and William Green each hosts their own We Study Billionaires episodes and bring their own unique perspectives. A whole new world of insights awaits you, just go ahead and type in We Study Billionaires into your podcast app and see what you've been missing out on.

40:07Seriously, go ahead. I promise you'll like what you find. Bonus points if you show your support for our work by clicking follow. If something piques your interest, just start listening. No hard feelings. I'll be waiting for you back here. Just like everybody else, there was a time when I was a beginner investor, and I have to say, investing is particularly filled with jargon that can just make it so difficult for new investors to understand what is going on, but it's never too late to get smarter about stock investing from the ground up. At The Investors Podcast Network, we've made a habit of studying the world's best investors, and now I'm distilling those learnings into a simple course for you or for anyone in your life who you might want to share the gift of knowledge with.

40:44With my How to Get Started with Stocks course, you can master the principles of excellent lifelong investing with valuable insights for both beginners and pros. The course covers 10 different sections, beginning with the basics of what a stock actually is and how the stock markets work, to strategies to optimize your retirement savings, how to pick great companies for the long term, what to look for in ETFs, and how to monitor your investments, plus so much more. To begin getting smarter about investing, just visit theinvestorspodcast.com slash get started with stocks. That's theinvestorspodcast.com slash get started with stocks.

41:20And for a limited time, you can use code STOCKS15 for a 15 % discount at checkout. Not to be cliche, but building a market-beating portfolio really doesn't have to be a mystery, at least with the right tools. If you've listened to our podcast for a while, then you know we spend a lot of time learning from savvy investors. So why not use the same tools we do? With TIP Finance, you can. Screening for great companies, calculating intrinsic value, keeping up with legendary investors' portfolios, and more are all not just possible, but easy to do. TIP Finance was created by investors for investors.

41:58It's quite literally the tools we wanted to use ourselves when researching investments in a simple-to-use interface. You can get started by creating an account for free. Who knows, maybe TIP Finance will help you find your next 100-to-1 investment. Between the screener and Legend Investment portfolios to reference, I've gotten a ton of ideas from TIP Finance. What are you waiting for? Take the next step in your investment journey today with the right tools at your fingertips. Grab your device and type into your browser theinvestorspodcast.com slash TIP-finance to get started. That's theinvestorspodcast.com slash TIP-finance.

42:38All right, back to the show. One of the questions with Seritage I had was, I see so many of these companies end up getting bought out, especially when they're trading at a value much lower than their current market price. So say someone buys the shares that they think it's a great deal at 20 bucks, it trades down to nine where it's at today, and it ends up getting bought out at a premium, to call it$12. Is that a concern for you at all? Or is that even a possibility for Seritage? Yeah, Guy Spear has done a talk on this exact topic and he listed that as what he thinks is the biggest risk at Syritage.

43:14He thinks that there's a chance he gets kind of bought under essentially. I don't think that anyone would have the capacity to do that other than Eddie Lampert because he owns a huge amount of the shares. So if anyone tries to buy out Eddie Lampert at these prices, he's probably going to say no, but there's a chance that Eddie could do it. So I think that is one of the larger risks in terms of the upside disappearing for SRG. Now, Tom, you've looked at the liquidation value of Seritage, but I would think they want to try and go towards the path to profitability. They've had negative cash flows over the last few years.

43:49When do you expect that to turn positive? Is it a couple of years, four years? What are you thinking on that? It's a little bit of a tough one to say exactly. I would be very surprised if it's not within the next two years. I mean, it'd be nice if it was as soon as possible, but it's sort of thinking through what's realistic. It looks like the first stage of some of the bigger developments should be online either right at the end of 2022 or early 2023. They are going to continue to sell some properties and a lot of those are empty buildings right now, which are bringing in no rent, but still do have some kind of carrying costs.

44:25So we'll drop off some expenses from that. And then the other part of the equation, which makes it kind of tricky from a cashflow perspective is they may get to a point where they're sort of profitable, assuming that they have no more capital expenditure. Like if they were just a pause or redevelopment, cashflows would be positive, but they're still going to have to recycle a lot of capital out of the properties that have been sold into funding newer, rather expensive developments. So some of the work that other investors have done on this, like Matthew Peterson is a guy that's done a lot of work on this topic.

44:55And he still thinks Syritage has about $800 million to spend on redevelopment. And I think that number involves some debt servicing as well. So it's really hard to pin down exactly. And they haven't given exact guidance on this, although they have started to be more detailed in some of their redevelopment timelines. So yeah, I'm hoping those cash flows turn sooner rather than later. But I'd be surprised if they are fully cashflow positive in the next six to 12 months, but not too long after that, we should hopefully be turning the other direction. Will they need to be issuing more debt to cover all of these construction costs coming up and redeveloping these properties?

45:35Yeah, the debt is one thing that's definitely hanging over them. They have been quite clear in saying that they want to move their finance from the overall serotage growth properties level with the big loan from Berkshire down to more of an individual property financing level. They did an investor presentation mid to late last year suggesting that they thought with their debt to book value type ratios, they should be able to get property level financing and more of the 4.5 % interest range versus 7 % that they're paying now. Perhaps the equation has changed a little bit with inflation potentially driving some higher interest rates.

46:12We'll just have to see how that one plays out. But they still do have a lot of liquidity they can make available from selling properties. So when I went through that property by property valuation exercise, all of the properties listed in the category kind of other, which again, I view as kind of properties to be sold, it looks like they have approximately kind of 800 million that they can make available from selling those properties. And of course, that's not something they can just grab tomorrow, like it is a process to sell a large number of properties, but that's definitely a lever they can pull and will likely pull.

46:43So to answer your question, I think there will probably be a shift in debt from down to the individual property level, whether the actual total amount of debt goes up or not. I would be surprised if it goes much higher than where it is now, but I don't think it's completely out of the question. And they've already paid off a small amount of debt. So they've paid off about 150 million of that 1.6 billion. So I think that's something that we'll continue to see certainly leading into mid-23 when the big$800 million in debt payments is due to Berkshire. That's interesting. Now, the stock was trading roughly$38 a share prior to the COVID pandemic.

47:23And today, like we mentioned, trades around$9 a share. At the time of this recording, why hasn't the stock recovered to go anywhere near the pre-COVID levels? Is it the markets not like in the commercial real estate it has or what do you think is going on on that front? What has changed from then to now? Yeah, it's really unusual to me, actually. I think the, and obviously all this stuff is simpler in hindsight, but the pre-pandemic prices kind of look a little rich to me. I'm talking liquidation value numbers potentially lower than where it was trading in pre-pandemic. So perhaps that's part of it that it was kind of a little rich at that stage.

48:02We have seen the likes of Pabrius start to sell and he's a big owner in the overall company. So perhaps that puts him down with pressure and Pabrai is the shameless cloner. And there's a lot of people that shamelessly clone Pabrai as well. So perhaps there's a bit of a flow on effect of a lot of people selling there. In terms of the actual story at Seritage, I mean, from my view, it's been increasingly positive. The new CEO has given us much more clarity on what they intend to do with the different redevelopments versus scaling. They've given a lot more clarity. And when I say a lot, you know, they've said they want to move down to the individual property level financing.

48:35We think we can get 4.5 % interest. That's kind of in contrast to the previous management where they didn't even say anything to do with debt. We have a loan from Berkshire and it's due in 2023 or whatever. And that's kind of all we got. So, you know, to me, I think the story at Syritage has only really improved in the last 18 months. So it is very strange to see the price kind of still at a level where it's at now. I wonder if it's rising interest rates potentially flying through to commercial real estate prices. Maybe there's some fears around that just in real estate stocks generally that are keeping SRG a little depressed and they are very leveraged.

49:13So if we have a 10 % move in commercial real estate prices, that's going to be exponentially greater for the EBITDA. So hard to pin down exactly what Mr. Market's thinking, of course, but those are a few things that come to mind alongside perhaps higher construction costs for the redevelopments as well. Right. That is interesting. Now, my final question about Seritage, I think of what Warren Buffett does. He likes to get ahold of great businesses at reasonable prices and pretty much hold them for a very long time. But I'd be surprised if that was the case with Seritage for you. So do you have a price target in mind which you'd consider selling your position or how do you think about that?

49:52Yeah, that's an interesting one. And it's funny you bring up Warren Buffett? We haven't mentioned it in this podcast, but Warren Buffett did own 5 % of Seritage. I'm not sure if you knew that or not. There's actually a couple of different share classes at Seritage. So there's the class A shares that trade publicly, and then there's Eddie Lampert's operating partnership units. So if you combine those together, there's about 55 million shares. But in practice, there's less class A shares, outstanding 50 odd million, and Eddie Lampert can convert those on a one-to-one basis from his operating partnership units into Class A shares.

50:21So when he's sort of done that conversion, I think that's diluted, or at least from a 13G filing perspective, I think that's diluted Buffett under that 5 % threshold where he doesn't have to report anymore. So it's a little bit tricky to say whether he actually still owns it or not, but I think he was certainly in there at some point. And it's interesting because he's on the other side of the equation with debt from Berkshire. So he's kind of involved personally on the ownership of SRG and then with Berkshire on the debt side. So that's interesting. But yeah, in terms of long-term plans for SRG, there's kind of two ways to value these real estate companies.

50:52So there's the comparable sales data kind of process, which I've gone through recently. And then really the best way to be doing it once we have cashflow in real estate is to value it based on that cashflow. You know, understand how much rental yield that SRG is throwing off, you know, putting market kind of cap rates on that and then subtracting out the debt, just like you might value a rental property really. And there's still, I think, well, there's still a lot of uncertainty about exactly how much cash seritage could potentially throw off. So the selling decision in the short term for me, I think it would be a little bit of a miracle personally, but if it somehow shot close to what I think the liquidation value is in the short term, I would reconsider.

51:32Longer term, I think it's once we have a much clearer understanding of what cash flows kind of SRG throws off, we can get a more concrete understanding of what it might be worth. and then I'll have to reassess. So selling is a lot harder than buying. I don't know if that really answers your question, but those are the things that I'm kind of thinking through, at least with this one. Tom, I really appreciate you coming onto the show. I really enjoyed this conversation. Before I let you go, where can the audience go to get connected with you? Yeah, I appreciate you inviting me on. I have a few different kind of platforms that I put content on.

52:07The main one is definitely the Investing with Tom YouTube channel. I post two to three videos a week on all things investing with the odd personal finance video thrown in there. I've recently started the Investing with Tom podcast, which is only a project I kicked off last year, but I had the opportunity to speak to some great guests. William Green, for example, who I know you guys are working with now and also just had Guy Spear on the podcast last week, which was a surreal experience to be perfectly honest with you. But I do have the Investing with Tom podcast as well, which you can find on all the standard audio platform, Spotify and Apple Podcasts and so on.

52:42And there also is a video version of that on YouTube. You can follow me on Twitter at Tom Investing. I'm getting a little more active on Twitter. And the final one I'll just plug briefly is I actually have a collaboration YouTube channel called Punch Card Investing, where I'm one of five YouTube value investor types that get together once a week and do a one-hour live stream on a particular topic. So we're going to do one about four or five hours after us recording this here podcast. We're going to be talking all about the recent 13F updates. And that's always fun to get some live interaction and kind of take questions from people watching as well.

53:18Good stuff. I'll link all of that in the show notes. And those two guests you mentioned, William Green, I had him on the Millennial Investing Podcast. He's a fantastic guest. And I listened to your conversation with Guy Spear on your podcast. I'm happy to see your podcast is doing well. And it's just a really fun opportunity to chat with these quote unquote super investors. So Tom, thanks again for coming on. Yeah, I appreciate it. This was good fun. All right, everybody. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Please go ahead and follow us on your favorite podcast app so you can get these episodes delivered automatically.

53:50And if you haven't already done so, be sure to check out our website, theinvestorspodcast.com. There you'll find all of our episodes, some educational resources we have, as well as some tools you can use as an investor. And with that, we'll see you again next time. Thank you for listening to TIP. Make sure to subscribe to We Study Billionaires by the Investors Podcast Network. Every Wednesday, we teach you about Bitcoin. And every Saturday, we study billionaires and the financial markets. To access our show notes, transcripts or courses, go to theinvestorspodcast.com. This show is for entertainment purposes only.

54:29Before making any decision, consult a professional. This show is copyrighted by the Investors Podcast Network. Written permission must be granted before syndication or rebroadcasting.