MI293: Hacking Marketing & Growth w/ Cody Schneider

22:31So imagine I have a website, I write content with DraftHorse, Search Console is plugged in, it's providing that data from Google Search Console back to DraftHorse. And so basically the content that we can write, we can learn whether it's good or not based off of, is it ranking or not? And is it getting traffic for that company or not? The thing that's further with that is we can then refresh that content based off the data that Google is providing us so that the content gets more effective at driving more traffic. And where we can then take this even further is I can give you a script tag, you put it on your website, you have a user action you're wanting, like a signup, and we can actually send that information again back to DraftForce.

23:07So then it can make decisions on top of all that data. So it's like, okay, cool. I wrote this stuff. I published it. The search console is giving me this information. Okay, I'm going to go back and I'm going to rewrite this article based on the Search Console data. And that whole process, it's the first version of this is a manual version, like where we're going and what we're experimenting with and what we're trying to like... I mean, this is the crazy part of us. It's like, we're like, can a blog write itself? Can I just plug... I'm talking to all these different companies that are in all these different verticals, like art shipping versus cremation versus...

23:38I talked to an HVAC guy yesterday who's in Florida who does certification. And for all of them, I'm thinking, okay, can you just plug your website in? And it just grows your organic content based off of what whatever your business goal is. And we think we can do this just based off of what we're saying, or at least get 90 % of that automated. And the last, the tails are the things that the people have to end up touching. So anyways, it's like, I'm over here from a marketing sample. It just seemed like this is the most insane time that's ever existed. I mean, this used to be just hours of work, like thousands of hours of work.

24:09And now it's happening in literally minutes. Today, I'm writing 3 ,000 articles for three different properties. I'm writing 1 ,000 articles for my personal website about marketing. I'm writing a thousand articles about WordPress for DraftForceAI.com. And I'm writing a thousand articles about podcasting for SwellAI.com. And all of those will be live in two hours to when they're off on the website and starting to get traffic. So that's basically what I'm thinking about it and how crazy this is in this moment in time that we're in for a great viewer marketer that has that understanding in these skill sets.

24:42That's my exact next question is when you do use DraftForce, or really, let's just assume any AI tool, but in this case, specifically DraftWars, what are you doing with the text that it puts out? I agree. It's actually pretty good. Like I said, I've used it. It's not really too, too much you have to change. But if you look at some of the best blog posts, they have images, they might have graphics, they might have videos. You can't do what you just said at scale and add images and videos and such. So what are you doing? Are you only uploading text? How are you handling that piece of it? Yeah. So how I'm thinking about it is I'm going to upload text.

25:15I'm going to get it live into the wild. And then as it starts to get traffic, then I'm going to go back and have human intervention. So that's when we go, we add photos, we add videos, we add CTAs in more specific positions. We'll maybe rewrite sections that we don't think are perfect. My view with this is that it's different for each business size. We're startups. It doesn't matter if it's not perfect. There's no repercussions if it isn't. If you're a large horde that's in accounting, it's a way different game. You have laws that you basically have to follow. And so it depends on the scale or where the scale or where the journey of the company is.

25:48But how I'm thinking about it personally is publish all of this. If nobody's seeing it, it doesn't matter if it's not perfect. As soon as people are seeing it, again, we're just looking at the data. Then we go back in and we'll touch that article up. Again, doing those improvements. We'll also do internal linking at that point. So on the DraftForce roadmap, these things are all there as well. Like automatic internal linking, automatic indexing, adding photos with the exact match keyword. All of these things are all doable. It's honestly now just like, we need more edge. It's my co-founder and I, it's still early.

26:18This thing is 45 days old. I have no idea where it's going or what's happening. We're just trying to build basically what our customers are asking for and the things that they hate doing that they know make impact. Refreshing content makes impact. Internal linking makes impact. Photos make impact, et cetera. When you were answering a question a few minutes ago, I wrote down, one of the things I wrote down was, would you do this if you had a brand? because I think what you were talking about, I wasn't sure if, you know, you said you have 18 to 24 months. I'm like, okay, this isn't going to be like a permanent thing.

26:50And then you mentioned before too, that like brand is really the big value add here. So I'm like thinking to myself, would we do something like this, this blog content at scale if we have a brand? Or would it be better to maybe take a slower path and write it yourself, add like really creative and individualized images and videos, like really specific stuff. stuff. So that's what I was wondering. But then you just said, I mean, you're doing it for your own companies. Swell AI and DraftForce, you're doing it for your own company. So I guess the answer to this question is yes, you would probably do it if you had a brand.

27:20But I guess more so, what if you wanted to build an ESPN? You had a topic, whatever the topic is, not necessarily sports, but you wanted to be a media company and you didn't have software that you were trying to sell. You just wanted to be a media company. Would you still use AI to create that content? 100%. So I'm watching company do this. I just can't say names, but I'm watching huge podcast networks do this right now where they're like, okay, we're going to basically build all of these blog posts that are all related to the niche that we're in. And then we get all this organic traffic that naturally comes from all of these posts that we write.

27:52Again, just to talk about scale, I'm talking like 10 ,000 plus articles that they all write. On those blog posts, they have call to action to either listen to their shows or join their newsletter or whatever that it. So that creates this inbound, like SEO traditionally, there's two places in it. In all reality, what you're trying to do is get the user to do something for you for free. So when we think about just marketing in general, there's two types of marketing. There's transactional marketing and there's long-term investment marketing. So transactional marketing, it's something like paid ads, it's cold email, it's something like, I'm going to do an action and then immediately later, I'm going to feel that thing.

28:25SEO falls into that bucket where it's a way more long-term investment. What I do now, I'm not going to feel the effects of that until 12 months later. So if I'm a media brand and I can go and I can spend five grand, and that makes me 10 ,000 articles that are related to my company. And I know that, okay, 12 months from now, we'll say 10 % of those articles actually provide any traffic. Suddenly, I have this massive inbound engine that I can basically tap into. So you're trying to grow a newsletter or any of these media pieces, which is like what everybody is trying to do. This is a way to create that evergreen content that's almost like a lead magnet for that media company.

29:01So when I think about it for Swell and DraftForce, what we're focusing on with this is I'm trying to get free traffic. And then I have a call to action to sign up for the software at the top of that page. And a percentage of those people that come in, they sign up for the software, that's a free lead. So if I can spend 50 cents now, and that creates one sign up in the next 12 months, it pays for itself. Of course, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this until it stops working. And that's personally how I'm thinking about it while I build these companies and build these brands out basically.

29:31So right now you have to find a keyword, whatever that keyword is, and you put it into an AI tool like DraftHorse and I'll read an article for you optimized for that keyword. What if you want to make it about a news story that... Say it's a breaking news story that just happened. And so there's not really a lot of stuff ranking. There's no specific keyword. People are searching a bunch of different stuff just to find this news story or even... It's not even really an SEO play at that point. It's more of content for social, but it's still in this niche site realm. How do you use AI for that? And is there a way to maybe use an AI tool like DraftForce to paraphrase content from another site that's already talked about the news story?

30:12Totally. So this is actually... The technology we built for Swell can do this, but Swell isn't designed for that. So Swell is an AI writer for podcasters. You upload an MP3 into it, it creates a transcription, and then you can basically write whatever content about the transcription that you want. So hypothetically, you could do the same thing. So have you seen, there's all these, it's like the chat with PDFs. I feel like that went viral recently, all these types of products. And then everybody cloned each other because somebody put an MRR graph in public. It was like they hit 80 grand in four months or something insane.

30:42So that technology is what a vector database is basically. And so what you end up doing is you upload this information in a written text format. So for a podcast, it's like I'm uploading a transcript, but it can be in any written text format. I upload that in, you put it into a vector database. So for our stacks, we use something called Pinecone, and then we use LaneChain. And that's basically how we interact with these vector databases. So imagine news happens. You go and you find all the sources for all of this news, and you're listening to this site that's trying to report on it. So you could aggregate and say there's 10 sources.

31:13I aggregate all that information. It could be in the form of transcripts. It could be in the form of, again, stuff that other people wrote, et cetera. I put that into this vector database, and then I can have the AI go and write against that information. So I'm like, okay, cool. Here's the structure of this article output that I'm wanting to have. Okay, AI, go right to this article structure using the information that I just put there. And so how this functions is basically the LLM is going and finding relevant information within that corpus of data that you've given it. So say, for example, I'm writing about telehealth.

31:45It's going to go and find every mention of telehealth. If I say, hey, write a title about how much is telehealth declining after COVID. It basically will go and find all the relevant information to that and then write that section for you based off of what you provided it. So totally possible. We haven't built a tool. I know there's somebody out there that's building something like this. 100 % it's happening. So that can be done with Swell or no? The technology that Swell uses is what... Basically, we can repurpose Swell. It'd probably its own brand, like spin it out. But like the technology that we built with Swell, 100 % could do that.

32:19Like somebody could do that exact thing. Absolutely. Right now it doesn't function for it. Like there's no way you're just going to get Swell defense. Like you can't upload anything into Swell. That's just pure text. Like we only take like an MP3, et cetera. But yeah, the idea is yes, you could do this. Like the technology exists for you to do that. So I mentioned before that I follow you on Twitter and that's what I want to talk about next. Like I said, this is an example where I don't have one direct specific question. I just want to hear all the things you have to say about what you're doing on Twitter.

32:48So tell us why you started, what you're doing, how it's going, just everything about Twitter and why you're there. Yeah. Yeah. So at the beginning of the year, I saw this arbitrage start to develop on Twitter. And it was really just like... I just started hearing rumblings from friends that people were just getting a reach that was unprecedented just for social media. So how social media typically starts out is like, they want you to get free reach and then they get you sucked in as a brand. And then they basically like flip a switch off and you no longer get free reach and they want to charge you for that reach that they got.

33:23Right. So that's the whole idea of building this massive network out that they can sell ads to. So Twitter had this moment where we started seeing, oh, like we're getting free reach. Like you would get with like a startup social media company. So again, like imagine Facebook in 2012, where they're just like, you get all of this reach. And so I saw that happening and I was like, all right, I'm going to just basically go in on this because I think I can sell these tools through this channel. So fast forward, I think I have like 400 followers at the beginning of the year. It's like at 8 ,000 now, I do 2.2 million impressions per year.

33:53I pay$5 for Twitter Blue to get those 2... Sorry, not 2.2 million impressions per year, 2.2 million impressions per month. I pay$5 a month to get those 2.2 million impressions. It's the cheapest CPM on the internet right now. And so my process to do this, it's the same process I use for all marketing. It's like, figure out a channel, turn it into a system, and then look at the data to see what's working and do more of what's working and less of what isn't. And then just do that over and over again, like a lifestyle habit. So for Twitter, to get really specific, what I do is I publish 10 tweets per day.

34:27It's straight up me just being honestly ridiculous. I'm just documenting the things that are happening. And style-wise, I made it really specific. It's like bare bones, information. I'm trying to only give you the essence of the idea. Because I think that that's the best form of Twitter. But that's when it actually thrives as a type of social media. And so I do 10 tweets per day. I sit down every Sunday. I have a glass of whiskey. I write those 70 tweets. Every Sunday, I look at all the data. I look at the past three months. I see which were the best performing tweets that occur based off of impressions.

35:01And then I write 70 more tweets that are similar, basically remixing those ideas for that next week. And so what that does is it creates this viral loop. So it's like, I'm learning the type of content that my audience is most likely to interact with. I'm then writing more content that I know they're going to have a high likelihood to interact with. And then that creates more reach. And so then it's just like, it continues. It's got that snowball effect. And so that's basically my entire process. We've been debating building this out. So I'm doing this half automated with AI right now. I was going to say, why aren't you having AI do this?

35:32I mean, I know you want to drink whiskey, but you just have AI do it. 100%. So we're doing this... My process is augmented currently, but again, we think we can actually automate this. So imagine that vector database. And I'm like, all right, robot, write tweets based off of this internal information. Now publish those tweets. Now look at the data. Which of those tweets are getting the most impressions? Okay. Go write more tweets that are based on those best performing tweets. But again, go back to that database that we had, that vector database, and find information that's similar to what we just talked about.

36:04That's doing the best. Again, create that viral loop. We think we can do that. It's one of those things where it's just like, it's eng resources. We only have so much eng time, basically. So anyway, DraftTorce is really kind of the focus right now. So we're trying to keep honed in on that. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. Hey, it's Sean O'Malley, just popping in with a quick message. If you like this podcast, Well, I've got great news for you. We've got a handful of other shows for you to explore, from learning about Bitcoin to embracing a richer, wiser, happier lifestyle.

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39:43All right, back to the show. One of the tweets that you had recently talked about how you have a very basic website that you built with just tailwind and API calls, yet that it's worth more than your townhouse because of distribution. And a common adage is build it and they will come, which is often applied in the business world to just building a good product. And then startup founders, it's said that a lot of first-time startup founders say, like, oh, let's just build a really good product and they'll come. Second-time founders know that you need distribution. So talk to us about the importance of distribution versus product.

40:17The easiest way to say it is that I see worse products win all the time because they have better distribution. NextSuite is a prime example of that. It's a terrible product. But I think valued at a a billion plus. I don't even know. I'd have to look at its market cap. And that's the idea, right? And it's always product people. This happens in SF so much and it drives me insane. They think, oh, I just built this unbelievable thing and people are going to find it. No. And it's always these founders that are like, they have this... It's almost like they're idealistic. They think that they've been like...

40:46Basically, that's what they've been taught. Good product is an aspect of it, of course. And good product is expected at this point. You can't just make okay product. You have to make good product. But the only way to differentiate, especially now when I can create software for nothing. It's so easy to clone software now, more than it ever has been. Just like it's so easy to clone content more than it ever has been before. So what I'm trying to say is that distribution is how you basically create your mode. It's like, there's two things that are going to create modes in this new age that we're in.

41:18It's distribution, having owned media that is a way for you to talk with an audience that nobody else has access to. And the other piece is in having customer data that nobody else has access to. Everything else can be duplicated, but those are the only two things that you can use, like any type of differentiation. So when I talk about like that suite, it's an AAPO. And it is like our apps are straight up. It's like, these are Tailwind components, which is a CSS library. And it's an API wrapper around OpenAI. But the value we're providing is more important than those things, right? If you take those pieces apart, there's a great book.

41:54It's called The Innovation Stack. It's by the co-founder of Square. What's that? I can't think of his name right now. Jack Dorsey? No, it's the other one, McKinley. He did actually all the hardware. I think his last name is McKinley. If you look up Innovation Stack, it'll come up. His concept is basically like, I'm going to take all of these ideas and I'm going to pile them together. And then suddenly there's this tipping point when you get to like eight to 11 ideas stacked together that a new idea forms. So when you look at the components, you're like, this is nothing new. But when you look at it in the aggregate, you're like, oh, that's a new thing that solves something.

42:27And I want to pay for that. And when we get down, just to break down the unit economics or the jobs to be done with DraftHorse, they traditionally were writing this content. And if I can come in and be like, you paid$100 before, now you're paying me a dollar and you get the same output that you were getting previously. Of course, I'm going to... That's a no brainer. If I'm a business owner, of course I'm going to do that. There's nothing that's going to hold me back from doing that. And that's basically it. You've also tweeted quite a bit about how you've helped your friends' podcasts grow. This show that you're on right now is pretty big in relative terms compared to other shows.

43:02But if I'm being completely honest and transparent, we've hit a bit of a wall in terms of growth. It grew really fast when it first started, but it's become more or less... It's more or less plateaued since then. Take us through what you're doing to grow your friends podcast and maybe what you'd recommend for us to do to grow this podcast. Totally. Yeah. So, I mean, the stack that I always suggest for people, this works mainly for podcasts that are trying to zero to one. They're non-existent to existent. And that's mainly the companies that I work with and have helped. So I've done this in the biotech space, in the marketing space, in the insurance space, et cetera.

43:39So the things that you layer together are podcast SEO, Facebook ads to iOS only devices, and then newsletters in either the form of SMS newsletters or email newsletters. So let's break those down. So podcast SEO. The idea with podcast SEO is basically how you rank internally on the platforms. So on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, that's where 90 % of the streams are happening when it comes to 90 % of downloads are occurring. So how you name your podcast, what you put in the description of your podcast, what you put in the title and the show notes of your podcast, all of that, how you basically get downloads, how people find you.

44:16So say as an example, my friends just started this podcast. They basically wanted to make a marketing podcast in the UK. It's about growth and marketing. And so for Tim, what they did is they named the show with growth in the title. And they also include marketing in the title. And they include all of these target keywords that they want to show up for related to the content that they're talking about within all pieces of the show. And again, in show notes, etc. So what that does is as you get downloads, you start to show up more effectively. So like an SEO that's called domain ranking, their DR, you basically...

44:50What it is is how many links you have from other websites. and it's a representative number of how trustworthy your site is. And can you even rank for these keywords? So when we translate that same idea to podcasts, downloads are that metric, basically. It's a factor. That is the biggest factor in you showing up within the search engine. So the more downloads you get, and if you're going after the target keywords, you get more reach from that. So I see this happening all the time. And this is actually something that we do with Swell. We'll get these companies that come in and they're like, Like, hey, I have a show.

45:21It has 500 episodes. The first 200, the show notes are terrible. The naming is terrible. They're basically dead on the vine. And what we've seen people do is they go back and they rewrite all of the show notes of these previous shows and update those, refresh those. But now that the show has more downloads, suddenly those old episodes can get inbound reach basically that's happening because of now discoverable by making these small changes. I mean, we've seen lips where it's like 30%, like week over week by just doing changes in that app catalog. So things like that, where it's just, I mean, it's apparent, right?

45:57That this is affecting it. So that's one component of it. The other piece that we pair is we do Facebook ads to iOS only devices. So why don't we do that? So iOS devices have the Apple podcasting app installed on every mobile. So when you send them to an Apple podcast URL from a Facebook ad, and the ad we're doing is straight up just a clip from the podcast, we could do this exact same thing with this, right? Like If you pull out one of the interesting pieces, you put it into a clip. And typically what I tell people is like, hey, test 20 of them against each other. Whichever one has the cheapest CPC, all of your ad spend goes into there.

46:29So when you target iOS-only devices and send them to the Apple podcast episode URL, it's technically a deep link. So when they click that ad, it opens, it prompts them like, do you want to open the Apple podcasting app? It takes them right to that episode. And they can like, when they press play, that turns into a download. So the other thing that you can do in the same vein is you can actually... It's called a podcast subscribe deep link. I'll send you this just to add to the show notes, Robert, so you have it later. But basically, it's podcast colon forward slash forward slash. You push the RSS feed of the podcast after that.

47:01And again, when they're on a mobile device and they do that click, it's going to take them into the Apple podcasting app. And then it's going to prompt them to subscribe to the Apple podcast. When they subscribe, every new episode that you publish is an instant download for your podcast. So the other piece that we layer with it is the doing newsletters. So newsletters are what we've seen recently. We did email traditionally, and that email is straight up just like the newest episode of XYZ podcast is live. And so I'm doing some work with a biotech company. We're actually scraping their entire industries, all their emails.

47:34And I'm sequencing them in to an email list. This is a gray list. And we're getting open rates of 40 % and CTRs of 5 % on these cold emails that we're sending. And because they're being added to a newsletter. So basically how we do it is I add like 200 emails per day. We built an automation that does this. So as soon as they get added, they automatically get sent an email. It's the best podcast episode that they've done just from a data standpoint. So we know that it hooks people the most. So they get that email. Once they join that list, every time we publish a new episode every week, they get an email that that new episode is dropped.

48:08So it's basically like the new episode is live. Click this link. It takes them right to the Apple podcasting link. It talks about what they're going to learn in that podcast episode. And again, this is one of those arbitrages that we've identified right now. This will be gone in the future. But right now, people are receptive. When they get an email that's like, oh, it's a podcast episode about something in my industry and I'm getting free education, they don't look at that as spam. Even though technically, this is probably a gray hat spam email that's happening. So anyways, what that does is that creates an immediate download that comes from that.

48:38You also, we're seeing people pair SMS groups. They're using one of those softwares that basically, Clavio has this, right? Where you can have a list of phone numbers and do bulk texting. It's basically just marketing, right? So they're sending emails about every time a new podcast episode drops. With again, that link, like the newest episode of XYZ Podcast is live, linked to the podcast episode. We're seeing 90 % open rates, like 40 to 50 % clicks on those text messages that we're sending. A friend of mine is starting to experiment with this with WhatsApp. He's in Europe. So that's why he's doing it.

49:09I imagine it's going to be the exact same thing from Dwork. But basically, by pairing those three things together, you can make growth happen so fast. It's actually insane. And the component of this I haven't talked about is all of the podcasts. So if you Google top US marketing podcasts, what's going to come up is sites like Chartable.com. So Chartable is just scraping all of their top podcasts. They're just scraping that from Apple podcast categories. So if you search like Apple podcast category marketing, it's going to have like popular podcasts and there's going to be 300 of them. That list that Charterball is showing you, it's just those podcasts just scraped directly from apple.com.

49:48So all of those websites, those aggregators that are like writing podcasts, they're all scraping just from Apple. So if you can get more downloads within Apple, what you get is basically like more free reach through all of these tools. You get more, again, and it's just like, we're just trying to create growth flywheels with everything that we're doing. So as we get more downloads, we get more podcasts as we get SEO. As we get more subscribers, we get more downloads. As we get more newsletter followers, we get more downloads. As we get more downloads, we climb the charts. As we climb the charts, we get more downloads and it creates this virtuous cycle in all of it.

50:21So that's how we're pairing it together. That's how we're seeing people have an effectiveness with this. So how about for a newsletter? So at CIP, basically, one of my main focuses right now is to grow our newsletter. We started a daily newsletter, very similar to Morning Brew with our own spin on it. It's a business unit that we're trying to send up. We're at about 33 ,000 subscribers. For anybody that's listening that's not subscribed, go subscribe. It's theinvestorspodcast.com slash subscribe. We have about over 50 % open rates for six months straight. rate and we're sending daily, seven days a week, 51%, 52%.

50:57And these are long emails. We have really good open rates, but our growth is pretty slow. I don't know the exact number off the top of my head in terms of how much we're growing. A couple hundred-ish a month, probably 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 100 a month, maybe 1 ,000. But I want to supercharge it. I want to go from 33 ,000 to 330 ,000 subscribers. How would you do that? Yeah. Sam Parr built the hustle off of Facebook ads alone. But how could he do that? Could you do that now? I don't think so in the same way. He was getting dollar signups to his newsletter. And so you work that math backwards. Okay. I'm going to spend a hundred grand and I'm going to get a hundred thousand people on this newsletter.

51:34How much more money can I make per month if I had a hundred thousand more people on this newsletter? And then you can basically start to do that ROI analysis and what's that payback period for this capital investment. I say that you couldn't do that, but I have a friend that has a newsletter that's in the AI space and he's getting dollar downloads from Facebook, or sorry, it's dollar signups from Facebook. And literally the ad that he's running is a screenshot of an Apple note that's like, I just found this newsletter. It's unbelievable. It's basically like wraps up everything that's happening in AI for you in a day.

52:04And it's like super easy to read. It's basically some pretty simple Jericho. And again, it's a screenshot, like the image they're using for this is a screenshot of an Apple note. That is how they're getting people to click and then sign up for this thing, getting those dollar dollars. That's one piece. There's this new company that just came out. I haven't done this personally, but again, just from what I've heard in the industry, it's called Viral Loop or something like that. Again, I'll find you the actual name of it. But basically, how it functions from my understanding is you do cross promotion between newsletters.

52:31So newsletter owners basically sign up and then they have newsletters you might like. And they add that to the end of the newsletter. And then basically, I'm seeing people add 20 ,000 subscribers in seven days, seven days after they sign up for this company. Again, I can't remember the name off the top of my head. I'll find it and send it over to you after this, just so you have it for the show notes. But I think pairing those things together, whenever I'm thinking about a company, and it depends on the level of capital you have. You're starting from either having zero money, but it's a way different position.

53:01But if you have capital to deploy, if I was in your shoes, I would be like, okay, where's the channel that we can get subscriptions to these newsletters from. And it's probably going to be one of the most recent... It's probably going to be TikTok in all reality. And it's going to be... Especially for your audience, like Millennial, Gen Z, how do I start a business, et cetera. I'm going to look for... I'm going to test all the channels against each other. I'm going to look for what's the cheapest signup. Where's the cheapest signup coming from? So I'm going to compare all the data, the signup data against each other.

53:28And then I'm going to look at that number. Okay. Again, it's costing me a dollar. And if you can get a dollar subscriber to a newsletter, again, Sam Parr with the hustle sold that 40 million. He did that in two years with just Facebook ads. Of course, you have to write good content and all of this. But if your open rates are good and your readership is good - Yeah, we got good content. Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And so what it turns into then is then you have that number like, oh, I want to get to a million subs on this newsletter. Okay. I'm getting signed ups at a dollar. That means I need to spend a million over this time period or whatever.

53:58And of course, there's knock-on effects that happen. As you get bigger, you'll get more word of mouth, to get more natural inbound, etc. But I would do basically paid ads and then pair that with this company that does newsletter cross-promotion for you within it. So those two things together, that's what I'm seeing working right now based on the conversations I'm having with just founders. Awesome. Well, Cody, before we go, I want to give you a chance to tell everyone where they can go to learn more about you. Drop your Twitter handle, drop your resources, your company, anything you want people to go online and find, let me know and we can put it in the show notes.

54:34Love it, man. Thanks for the plug. I always love it. Yeah. So I'm just at my Twitter handle. It's Cody Schneider XX. I basically am just like wide tweeting as me building these companies and everything we're seeing and learning. If you like this, you're going to like that. And then the two things that I'm building right now is swellai.com and then drafthorseai.com. If you Google both of them, they should come up. And if they don't come up, I'm not doing my job right. So yeah, those are the places. Awesome. Well, I'll put those below in the show notes for everybody that's interested in checking them out.

55:02Cody, thanks so much for taking time out of your day to join me. I really appreciate it. Appreciate it, Robert. Thanks for having me, man. All right, guys. That's all I had for this week's episode of Millennial Investing. I'll see you again next week. Thank you for listening to TIP. Make sure to subscribe to We Study Billionaires by the Investors Podcast Network. Every Wednesday, we teach you about Bitcoin, and every Saturday we study billionaires and the financial markets. To access our show notes, transcripts or courses, go to theinvestorspodcast.com. This show is for entertainment purposes only.

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