MI333: Millennial Investing Book Club: The Psychology Of Money w/ David Fagan

25:42And for a limited time, you can use code stocks15 for a 15 % discount at checkout. All right, back to the show. So the next chapter I want to go to was chapter six titled Tales You Win. So I really like this chapter. Essentially, the gist of it is that you can be wildly successful based off of just a few decisions that offer super outsized returns, despite being wrong very, very often. Investing is the perfect vehicle to explain this concept, which is... Look at Warren Buffett, for instance. He said that his entire career essentially has been based off of 12 decisions. And if you remove those 12 decisions, he's an average investor.

26:23So he's made... I think someone's counted up. It's somewhere between 400 and 500 investment decisions over his entire lifetime. And only those 12 decisions really have made him into the person that he is today. If he hadn't made them, he'd be just some other hedge fund manager that probably most of us have never even heard of. I found this chapter really interesting and it made me connect to a really cool concept that God and Bade actually shared with Clay on We Study Billionaires. And that's basically, he was talking about concavity and convexity and how powerful compounding is and how it can easily carry your success even when you have some major your losers.

26:59So he gave an example. Well, let's say you have two investments. Say you have$20 ,000, so you can put$10 ,000 into each investment. One goes up by a 26 % compound annual growth rate for 10 years, and one goes down by a 26 % compound annual growth rate for 10 years. If you don't understand compounding or the math of it, you would think, okay, well, one goes up, one goes down, I just end up with the same amount of money. But no, that's not how it works because yeah, your loser goes down significantly, you lose a ton of money, but your winner goes up so high that you're actually making a 17.76 % annual return over that period of time, which is just crazy.

27:33And that basically means you're wrong. You're completely wrong, 50%. That was really interesting. And then another interesting concept was, so Pulak Prasad in his book, What I Learned About Investing from Darwin, he discussed this concept of punctuated equilibrium and how powerful it can be when used correctly. Basically tying it into this was he essentially just buys things at very, very concentrated period of time. It's not very often. He'll have years to go by where he literally doesn't buy anything. And so that kind of just goes to show you that when these events happen that open up opportunities, you have to pounce on them as quickly as possible.

28:09So I'm just going to pose a question to David here. How have you positioned your investments to amplify the effects of winning and decrease the effects when you lose? David Morgan I thought about this in contemplation of our chat. And I don't know if I have a great answer for you, but I'll try to work it through in a couple ways. If we get to it, we'll talk about in chapter 12 about market volatility. And for the most of my career as a DIY investor, I've been fully invested. And I haven't been in a position to be as opportunistic as I would have liked in key moments. Morgan has a great quote about your success as an investor will be determined by punctuated moments of tear, not in the years spent on cruise control.

28:55And I can tell you that my ability to stay in the game has been tested a few times at this stage in my career, and I've managed to do just fine with that. I haven't set myself up to be like a punctuated moment that Pulak Prasad talks about in his book. I haven't positioned myself well enough yet to take advantage of a 2008 market correction or the V-shaped correction that happened during COVID. But in terms of decreasing the effects of loss, I can tell you that I do index with part of my portfolio. I put it in the believe in the market, don't think about it too much and be financially unbreakable category.

29:35I've got probably 25 % of our family's net worth in index funds. I don't borrow to invest. And I don't invest money that I may need to run my day to day life. So I think I can prevent the downside by those three things. And I'm still working on the upside, Kyle. So in chapter nine, Morgan's talking about wealth is what you don't see. And I think this is a key concept to learn early on in life. Some of the key points that Morgan makes is be careful what you think when you see someone else. And it kind of ties into chapter eight, the man in the car paradox as well. And I'm going to read you a quote that actually comes from chapter eight that ties in really nicely here.

30:24It's a subtle recognition that people generally aspire to be respected and admired by others. And using money to buy fancy things may bring less of it than you can imagine. If respect and admiration are your goals, be careful how you seek it. Humility, kindness, and empathy will bring you more respect than horsepower ever will. And I can tell you in my role as an accountant, you can imagine what I can see into people's personal lives. It's like going to the doctor and disclosing your health issues. I mean, when you come to your accountant, you're seeing all the financial stuff, right? And I really struggle personally with fake rich, I'll call it.

31:04You see someone drive up in a fancy car and you know that they have two years taxes owing that they haven't paid for. And I really struggle with that. And I just think you have to watch in life who you're emulating and who you're respecting. And oftentimes, it's hard not to judge people. It's by nature. I think we do become judgy sometimes, but you have to really train yourself not to do it. And I mean, I had an experience when I was young. I was working for my parents. They have a clothing store and it was Christmas time and the store was really busy. And, you know, I was a kid. I was maybe 16, 17 years old.

31:45And this gentleman came in and I didn't pay any attention to this man. And, you know, I didn't think I was going to make any sales. Anyways, by the end of the night, he was one of the best customers I had had all Christmas season. And I can remember, like I'm talking about it today. hey, I judged the guy when he walked through the door. And I was young enough to not beat myself up about it. But I was old enough at that point in my life to know that I was very aware of my air in those moments. And I've never forgot about it. In fact, Chris Mayer, who was on one of our Zoom calls in the mastermind community, actually talked about meeting someone at an investment conference who was dressed up like a farmer.

32:26And I was like, yes, that happened to me exactly. So early on in life, you're going to make mistakes and you're going to learn this lesson sometime throughout the years, but maybe learn it from me. I don't know, Kyle, have you ever been in a position where that happened to you? I can't really think of too many positions where I've really misjudged someone based on their wealth. And I think that a big part of my upbringing was just you treat everyone equally. And my mom and dad both really instilled that into me. And not Not that your parents probably taught you the exact same thing, but I also wasn't in sales, right?

33:03So I didn't quite have those same types of opportunities. But I definitely observe that, especially now that I find financial independence a lot more interesting because I'm trying to live it now. So I observe things that other people do with their money. And like we said, with people being crazy with the money, no one's crazy, but you can still observe it and you can still see what they're doing. And you can probably assume that some people are saving money and assume that some people aren't saving money. And you obviously would have the best insights into this because you're seeing people's actual money coming in and out.

33:32The next chapter I wanted to do was chapter 12, which is surprise. Many people use history to help guide the near future, but history only tells us so much. History does a great job of showing us how events impact greed and fear in a variety of emotional states. So it's great for using to understand sweeping generalities. But as you get more and more focused and specific, looking at specific industries or trends in investing, for instance, using history to aid in decision-making becomes a lot less useful. So you can look to history for human, I think for human psychology and emotion. I mean, you can go back hundreds and hundreds of years and starting with tulipomania and the South Sea China bubble and all these bubble events, they happened a long time ago.

34:14They're still happening today. They're still going to happen in the future. But if you want to look at one specific industry that's brand new and try to take lessons from history, you're going to have a hard time because those things just didn't exist. So some of those generalities work really well in history. When you dive into really, really specific events, you can maybe try to use history to help guide you, but it's not exactly going to help you, I don't think, just as much as trying to learn as much as you can about what's happening right now and taking experiences that you have to help build your own thesis.

34:46So a quote I really liked from this was about historians as profits. So quote, A trap many investors fall into is what I call historians as profits fallacy, an over-reliance on past data as a signal to future conditions in a field where innovation and change are the lifeblood of progress. So I mean, yeah, this just kind of goes on to what I was saying that you can use data from the past to help you with some of your decisions, but not all of your decisions. And you have to be really, really aware of that because leaning too much on that can, I think, make you make some pretty big mistakes. So a couple of my big takeaways is that the world is really surprising.

35:21I think you need to accept that and give yourself permission to be wrong and keep your ego in check because you're going to be wrong a lot. I don't think of myself as a macro guy. I think of myself more of someone who looks at specific businesses, but even the specific businesses I choose, sometimes I'm wrong. I'm wrong often and that's okay. And then also, I feel this chapter ties into relying on experts for their opinion because even experts who should know more than anyone else on the subject are wrong often. And you can look at people who make their little macro predictions and they're right on one out of 10.

35:56But I mean, what's the difference of just closing your eyes and flipping a coin? Because that would at least hopefully be about 50 % right. I love how Morgan talks about the outlier events that really moved the needle in this chapter and how unpredictable those events have been. Exactly. And so I wanted to know your your angle on this. So you're obviously a business owner. How do you best prepare and cope with unprecedented events from COVID or whatever to your personal business? I think I'll generalize and then I'll get specific about our business. I think every business needs to operate with some sort of margin of safety in it.

36:36And whether that's ensuring that you have excess working capital, like make sure that your current assets are more than your current liabilities. It's not a complicated concept, but it is important. And you don't want to over leverage your business. To be a little more specific about, you know, my experience, I mean, at our firm, one of our strategies is to always be slightly overstaffed. As an office of close to 25, by doing that, it allows us to navigate the unpredictable nature of staff not being here, or maybe we get behind in work and just having, Being conscious of boat being slightly overstaffed allows us to meet our deadlines.

37:18And it also allows us to be aggressive if an opportunity pops up to buy another accounting firm and just have the resources available and the horsepower when we need it. And, I mean, obviously, the last unprecedented event for us was the pandemic. And, you know, as you know, as a fellow Canadian, I mean, within two weeks, people had to be out of their office. Like you were not allowed to be in a group of more than five people in a spread out office. And our systems weren't prepared at that time to handle that much decentralization. So, you know, another coping strategy for us is to have the right people on the bus.

37:57And because in those two weeks, I can tell you we hustled. And you can only do that if you've got the right people on the bus and driving in the same direction with the business's purpose. Chapter 18 is when you'll believe anything. And the main theme in this chapter is appealing fiction and why stories are more powerful than statistics. And we often focus on what we know and we neglect with what we don't know. And the more you want something to be true, the more likely you'll believe a story about it. And I think when I read this chapter and I think about it, Daniel Kahneman is all over this chapter in terms of some of the things he writes about in his book.

38:44And I'll share a quote that Morgan actually wrote in his book by Daniel on page 198. it says, hindsight, the ability to explain the past, gives us the illusion that the world is understandable. It gives us the illusion that the world makes sense even when it doesn't make sense. And this is a big deal in producing mistakes in many fields. And it just comes back to, are you making up some of the story when you don't have all the information? Are you really going through your due diligence? Charlie Munger talks about no one's smart enough to operate without a checklist. Are you getting through everything you're supposed to get through when you're doing analysis on stuff?

39:27I think it's easy to develop. I think we all have incomplete views. And then it's very natural for us to complete the full narratives around our view. So we have to be so, so careful about what we're telling ourselves. And there's a really good chapter in Daniel Kahneman's Thinking Fast and Thinking Slow about an outside view. I think it's chapter 23. And for those of you who may not have read this book or not familiar with it, it's where people maybe underestimate how long it may take them to do something without getting expert advice involved and sharing an outside view on what they know because they're experts in the field and shedding some light on the situation that they're in.

40:19And it's like running a business and thinking you have all the answers yourself. You probably don't. And to be able to get to fill in the blanks is really, really important. And I guess I'll just kind of backtrack a little bit in terms of some of the examples that Morgan gives in this chapter. It's back to the we'll believe anything and stories are more powerful than statistics. We overestimate the truth all the time. 85 % of fund managers cannot beat the index, but there's over$5 trillion invested in it as people are looking for the next Warren Buffett. I mean, I love that quote in the book. Madoff, he was the most notorious Ponzi schemer since Mr.

41:04Ponzi himself. And his returns never varied. He had an auditing firm that was unknown, yet he raised billions. And I just think what an amazing storyteller that gentleman must have been to be able to, you know, have people invest with such little due diligence on their end. Yeah, it's just, it's almost like FOMO is real, you know, the fear of missing out. So there's so much psychology in this chapter. It's unreal. Yeah, I don't know, Kyle, have you ever completed? Have you ever worked through something, only get to get to the end of it and realize that you did kind of fill in some blanks when maybe you actually didn't know the answer itself?

41:47Yeah, absolutely. And investing all the time. So I talked a little bit about, I try at the end of the year to think about what my most cherished belief was that I destroyed in a particular year based off of what Charlie Munger said. And I love it. So last year, I was thinking about that. And to me, so last year, I exited a lot of three investments I had in China. And while I still think China is a great country and will probably have some very good outperformers, I did a lot of research. I spent a lot of time trying to understand the country. And I thought I had a really good understanding of it.

42:18And I spent years essentially building up this thesis on three of the companies that I owned. And I thought I had a pretty good picture of the country. So I had my thesis. And you can kind of think of it as a thesis. It's the same thing as a story, right? You build it. Hopefully, you use as many facts and data as possible. There's some story stock investors, they just look for the story, that's it. And they don't pay any attention to any of the fundamentals. And that's definitely not the way I am. But even with using data and trying to back up my story with the fundamentals of the business, I feel like I was wrong on that.

42:53It's easy to fool yourself. And for me, it was really hard. It took me years to basically admit that I just don't understand China in terms of business as well as I thought I did. And maybe I'll continue probably learning more and more about it and And who's to say I won't go back in at some point, but it just felt like that was a story that I, to some degree, was telling myself. And I made some errors on that end. I can tell you from my own experience, I've made the air hiring before where I've read a resume and I've given an interview to an individual and they've started with our firm. And I filled in a complete narrative of that person before I really knew who they were.

43:33I mean, I think I feel like I'm a little bit better these days. But earlier on in my career, I used to do that. And it was only through experience and kind of learning my own admissions to be able to develop the skill to kind of get through that. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. Hey, it's Sean O'Malley, just popping in with a quick message. If you like this podcast, well, I've got great news for you. We've got a handful of other shows for you to explore. from learning about Bitcoin to embracing a richer, wiser, happier lifestyle. Just go into your podcast app and type in We Study Billionaires to find our collection of shows.

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47:13All right, back to the show. My last chapter I wanted to go over was chapter 15, which is nothing's free. I really like this chapter because essentially what he's talking about is that any benefit that you observe comes with a fee. And so, for instance, let's take this into the investing realm. If you're indexing, your fee is volatility. You have to pay the volatility fee in order to stay in and hopefully get the benefit of owning indexes for a long term, which are very good benefits. But a lot of people don't get those benefits because they're not willing to pay the fee. Essentially, any success that has a benefit is going to come with some form of fee.

47:51But the problem is that sometimes that fee is hidden and you don't know. So he used the example of an executive who had done a really good job. It appeared that he did a really good job, but under the veil of all the success, there was a lot of issues that he made. And there was a lot of, I guess, fees you could say that he had to pay. And that, I think, just goes along with anything. I mean, in investing, for sure, you have to pay volatility. That's always a fee. And that's whether you index or if you invest in individual stocks. Because even if you own individual stocks, look at Berkshire. I think it is the best performing stock ever.

48:26And it's had four different 50 % drawdowns. So that means that even with all the success they've had, and even though their success has been relatively linear, if you wanted to capture all that success, you had to live with paying the fee of volatility. A question I had for you on this chapter, Dave, was what fees of the market are you willing to pay in order to reach your financial goals? Yeah. I mean, for me, it's simple. It's volatility. And I know we've discussed this already. But I mean, I've been in the markets long enough to see a couple very large downturns with my portfolio. And I know I've got the temperament and the ability to withstand that.

49:03I wasn't prepared to be as opportunistic as I would have liked. But even withstanding the volatility is an experience in itself. And being able to not make a brash decision when you see your investments go down by 40%. I mean, I can share an experience with you that I learned from a client. I mean, it's great to learn from other people's mistakes. In 2008, I was in my 20s, late 20s, pretty young, chartered accountant in Canada. And I remember this gentleman panicked a little bit, sold all his investments and put it in a GIC. And I can't tell you exactly what month that was, but that had a profound impact on me because six months later, the market pops back and this gentleman had permanent capital erosion.

49:53And it stuck out like a sore thumb for me. And I've always been one who's been able to learn from other people's mistake. And that one's seared into my memory. It's really interesting because oftentimes, if you're explaining how financial compounding works, you always use simple terms and you take an interest rate without volatility to illustrate its power. right? Like you're going to say, here's$100 ,000 invested today. If you make a 9 % return for the next 20 years, this is what your investments are going to be worth. Well, the market rarely returns the average. And so you really need to be tested a few times.

50:31And I think it's important early to get tested so that as your wealth grows later in your life, that you've been battle tested in terms of volatility. And I can't tell you where, I think I read this in William Green's book, Richer, Weiser, Happier, someone calling it a learner's fee. I could be wrong on which book that came from, but I think the learner's fee is true. It's a very important lesson to learn early in life. And it will only be a fine if you sell your investments. Why don't you take off with the last chapter? And then after that, we're going to go into the confession, which I think is going to be a lot of fun.

51:14Okay. So chapter 13, room for air. The main theme in this chapter is that the most important part of every plan is your plan not going according to plan. You have to leave room for air. And just got to throw this Mike Tyson quote in, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. Have you heard that one, Kyle? Oh, yeah. Yeah, right. You've got to prepare for a black swan event. That's a key point in this chapter. And you aren't always going to know why, what or how something's going to happen to challenge you, whether it's in your investments or the business that you're running, but you've got to prepare for it.

51:57And Morgan has this beautiful concept that runs through a lot of the book about being financially unbreakable. And I love it. I say it all the time now. You don't want to take yourself out with leverage or sell your investments during a market downturn. I mean, we've talked about that. Some of the examples that Morgan has in this chapter is Berkshire leaves enough cash in its insurance claims. And Warren's been public saying, I'm not going to lose one night's sleep over not having enough cash on the sidelines. And of course, early in Microsoft's days, Bill Gates said, I'm going to have one year's cash and expenses so I can meet payroll.

52:41And it's just an unbelievable commitment to being financially unbreakable. And I think it's just so important. And we'll see if I can tell this story well enough to get some humor out of this. This happened to me with my car twice in my life. So I just get a kick out of every time I see this story. In World War II, Germany had the best tanks in the world. And in one of the great battles of that war, where they were trying to occupy the Soviet Union, they weren't successful. And Morgan writes that the scholars all agree that that battle marked the turning point in the war in favor of the Allies, the Germans lost.

53:24And do you remember what took out the German and their great tanks in that battle? Do you remember what it was? I do, yes. Mice. Yeah. Mice. Mice chewed the wires to their tanks and they were inoperable. And talk about a black swan event like who could have ever prepared for that and i love actually in morgan's new book same as always which which just came out i think in november of 2023 which which we've already uh done a book club review on in our tip mastermind community risk is what you don't see and you've got to prepare for it but you don't know what it is and it's just so important to be to position yourself to be financially unbreakable.

54:12Yeah, absolutely. And for me personally, to be financially unbreakable is probably all the same types of things that you're doing, which is obviously stay away from leverage. I mean, you have to do that if you want to be financially unbreakable. If you're using leverage, I mean, you're just exposing yourself to so much risk because bad things happen. And when they do, if you're leveraged, the people are going to want their money back. And oftentimes, all your investments or however you're looking at it is going to be depressed. And that means it's going to be very hard for you to stay afloat. And then in terms of my portfolio, I try to buy businesses and own businesses that have some degree of an ability to withstand big financial events.

54:54But I mean, let's be honest, it's hard, right? I mean, even right now, are we in a recession? Are we not in a recession? But you look at certain businesses and they have very slowing fundamentals. And this is nothing close to like a 2008, right? So I guess part of it also is being willing to look long-term. That I think to me helps me be financially unbreakable because if something were to happen to my portfolio to draw 50 % or more or whatever, I'm honestly fine holding onto it. Obviously, I look at individual businesses I have, I'd have to probably reassess them to see how the, whatever the event is, is going to affect the operating fundamentals of those businesses, but I'm willing to wait a couple of years for it to make that money back or reallocate to something else.

55:38As value investors, those events, those are the things that we hope to see, because if you have some money to deploy, that's where you're going to get amazing returns. I wanted to finish this off looking, I think it was chapter 19 or 20 that Morgan has this, it's called Confession. So he basically talks about two things, how my family thinks about savings and how my family thinks about investing. So Dave, why don't you start? Just go over a little bit, a couple of points about how your family thinks about savings and then I'll do the same thing. Morgan writes the two ethos in medicine in this chapter are that every patient wants to be cured and there is a universal right to cure them.

56:19And so if I define my business and investment ethos and kind of tie it into my wife and I's financial, personal financial situation is we are, and we being my wife and I very much on the same page, are amazing savers. And I've talked in this episode already about our savings rate. We treat wealth like a game, not from ego. I think that's really important to have some humility and kindness in what you do. My wife and I don't have elaborate needs or wants. And in fact, the older we get, it's actually the less we want, not the more we want, which is kind of interesting. And, you know, one of our ethos is to be humble, kind and compassionate.

57:09And I know I talked about fake rich in one of the earlier chapters. I mean, personally, I identify as fake poor. And I think that actually might sound funny. I've taken that quote from Chris Rock. He's used it in a comedy routine. I mean, that guy grew up dirt poor, and he's worth a lot of money and has done extremely well in life. And he says he still identifies as fake poor to this day. Right. And so, I always get a kick out of that when I hear him say it. But it resonates with me and my wife as well. And also, one of my ethos at this stage in my life is just leading by example. If you're familiar with the term ikigai, it's from an island in Japan where people try to lead their life with purpose and define that.

58:01And one of mine is to educate people on business and finances and lead them and help teach and lead them in that. So that's definitely one of my ethos. Yeah. So for me, I mean, I guess I came to this conclusion from looking at the angle of how I was raised and why certain members of my family taught me about saving and how they saved. And my mom and dad, they taught me a lot about saving. They both saved a decent amount, not as much as, I guess, not as much as they should have to retire super early, but they both have savings and that's awesome. And my mom really, she had some bad doubts of getting into debt.

58:43And so she really instilled into me how important staying out of debt was. And she helped me understand the strength of building an RRSP and savings in that end. And then my dad, my dad is, so my dad's from Myanmar and he was actually a monk when he was a lot younger. So he understands a lot about, you know, just living below your means. I mean, Myanmar is not a super wealthy country. And then being a monk on top of that is, you know, you're, you're definitely not, you're not eating very well. You're eating rice basically all the time. So my dad is incredibly good at living below his means. And I've definitely learned a lot from him on that.

59:18And so that's helped me really understand the power of savings and living below your means and staying out of debt. So that's kind of how I think about savings, how my family thinks about savings and how I learn. So do you have any other insights into how your family thinks about investing? Well, if we think about what we talked about in chapter one, about our lived experiences, accounting for so much of how we're wired, you make a good point here that not only our lived experiences, but I think our parents teach us so much about their lived experiences become our lived experiences. And I think it's really important to frame that early in your life.

59:59I mean, you might have learned amazing habits from your parents, from how they thought about money, but the reverse can also be true in terms of learning poor habits or just not understanding concepts. So, you know, if you're a 25-year-old listener today, I would encourage you to really think about how you interpret money, what has been your thoughts, what has been your parents' thoughts, and come to some agreement with yourself on what you think the right answer is. I just think that's really important to try to figure that stuff out early in life. And, you know, if you could think about that early, especially early, I think that opens up a lot of opportunities for you to start the compounding engine early.

1:00:45Because once you understand the power of the compounding, I wish when I was 10 years old, I could have started putting$5 a month or something like that away. Because the amount of money that that grows to, it's incredible. And starting late, obviously, it's not an advantage, but starting no matter what your age is, is always going to be an advantage. So if you're not saving now, now's the best possible time that you can have for saving. Warren Buffett has been quoted as saying, when's the best time to plant a tree 10 years ago? When's the second best time? Today. Exactly. Exactly. So David, I wanted to say thank you so much for coming on the show today.

1:01:25But before we go, we talked about a bunch of books that you referenced being part of the TIP Mastermind community. So would you mind just maybe sharing some of your thoughts on the investment community for the audience? Yeah. So I'm really passionate about being involved in the TIP mastermind community. I'm really thankful to be part of it. Everyone is going to internalize why the community works for them. For me, it's simple. It starts with the commitment to lifelong learning and pushing yourself to be better. And just ignoring the fact that we study and share investment ideas for a moment. I like to think of we're the product of the five people that we associate most with.

1:02:07And I like to consider this community as one of my five people. I mean, this group is made up of amazing people who at the end of the day, just want to better their knowledge. I mean, where else can you surround yourself with like-minded people who like to read, study, like to invest and share ideas on the same? I can almost assure you that it's not your spouse and it's probably not the people that you grew up with, right? So it really fills a need for a lot of people that are in the community. Circling back to the investment side, we do some cool things like share one-page stock pitch ideas that people have researched.

1:02:46If someone's done a real deep dive into a business and developed a robust thesis on it, we'll jump on a Zoom call and have that individual pitch the stock. Some other cool stuff that we do or that we did last year for me was we read the book, The Joys of Compounding. And then we were able to have God and Bade join us on a Zoom call. And we were able to talk to him about the book and quiz him about his investment ideas. And we were also able to do that with Chris Mayer and 100 Baggers as well. And so just having the access to talk to people that you wouldn't otherwise is really special to me. And Kyle, I just want to give you a big shout out and thank you for all the work that you and Clay are doing organizing the community.

1:03:33And I want to personally thank Stig for some really meaningful conversations that we've had in the past year. And just like we talked about in Chapter 4, relationships are like investments. They compound over time. And that's the hope that I have with this community. Okay, folks, that's it for today's episode. I hope you enjoyed the show and I'll see you back here very soon.

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