REI181: 400 Flips, Midwest Multi-Family, and Mental Health Advocacy w/ Jonathan Barr

25:24On public, you can put together a multi-asset portfolio for the long haul. Stocks, bonds, options, crypto, it's all there. Plus, industry-leading yields on your cash with no fees or minimums. Switch to the platform built for those who take investing seriously. Go to public.com slash TIVP and earn an uncapped 1 % bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com slash T-I-V-P. Paid for by public investing, full disclosures in podcast description. Just like everybody else, there was a time when I was a beginner investor, and I have to say, investing is particularly filled with jargon that can just make it so difficult for new investors to understand what is going on.

26:04But it's never too late to get smarter about stock investing from the ground up. At The Investors Podcast Network, we've made a habit of studying the world's best investors, and now I'm distilling those learnings into a simple course for you, or for anyone in your life who you might want to share the gift of knowledge with. With my How to Get Started with Stocks course, you can master the principles of excellent lifelong investing with valuable insights for both beginners and pros. The course covers 10 different sections, beginning with the basics of what a stock actually is and how the stock markets work, to strategies to optimize your retirement savings, how to pick great companies for the long term, what to look for in ETFs, and how to monitor your investments, plus so much more.

26:43To begin getting smarter about investing, just visit theinvestorspodcast.com slash get started with stocks. That's theinvestorspodcast.com slash get started with stocks. And for a limited time, you can use code stocks15 for a 15 % discount at checkout. All right, back to the show. When you buy a place, are you inheriting existing property management? No, we're always putting our management. though that first KC deal, the management company was in place. And that's who you got rid of or no? No, no, that's separate. In Kansas City, different managers and the Oklahoma stuff. But yeah, so that manager was there and they were actually good.

27:29So I think I just got lucky, honestly, with that one because they've been good. And another part of it is we're just super involved. We do weekly calls. We have KPI reporting. They're telling us what our occupancy at, what our delinquency is at, how leasing is going, all that kind of stuff. I mean, we're calling, we have emails almost daily, sometimes text messages with managers. I mean, we're super hands-on. So that's a big thing too. It's like, you can't just let the managers just do, you have to make sure you need to be on it too. And that's a big part of the success. And how often, so the different cities you're in, tell me again, it's Oklahoma City, Norman.

28:11in Kansas City. How often are you headed there? Once a quarter. The lucky thing is my brother is not married and doesn't have kids, so he can go more often than I can. That's nice. So you send him pretty more often? That's cool. A little more often, but I want to get out there too. So how are you guys breaking up the responsibilities between you and your brother? He does more acquisitions. I do more the marketing of our business for investors and some of the investor relations and some of the accounting stuff. But at the end of the day, we have our hands in everything because it's just the two of us and we have no employees, but we third-party manage.

28:55So that's part of it. I wanted to hear if there's anything you miss at all from the flipping days. Do you miss that at all in being in the family business or is it good to move on to the next thing? I mean, it's more good to move on. But I'd say that the main thing I miss is we did some really high design projects. I mean, we did some$4 to$5 million projects in the Hollywood Hills. And so we did some like really fun, amazing projects that some of them got awards and got into different blogs and all that kind of stuff. So it's cool to be part of that. And now we're just doing workforce housing.

29:32It's pretty vanilla stuff, but my life is better. Definitely. So the cash flow is greatly increased. As a flip, the downside is a lot of people say you're creating a job and it doesn't end. You got to keep it pumping. I heard you say you had to sell three houses a month to pay for overhead at one point. Yeah. We had to do two, three deals a month just to pay for everything. So it's like we had to do four deals a month just to make some money basically. And that's a pretty stressful and high pressure space to be in. And yeah, like you said, the flip business is a job. You have to go to the sites all the time.

30:13There's things happening. You're selling properties. It's a full-time job. When the apartment stuff is, it's still busy, but it's less like things have to happen today. It's more like you do as much as you need to do. Do you think doing flips though is a good place to start for somebody just getting started? I think it's a good way to create capital. If I hadn't been in that business, I wouldn't have any cash to do what I'm doing today. So I think it's a good way to kind of, for someone just starting out, doing a flip and maybe using part of the profits to do another flip and use part of the profits to park into something long-term and keep on doing that until you could focus more on long-term investing, I would say.

30:58But yeah, you're not going to just start out having all this money. So you need to create the money in some way. Talk about the tax advantages of multifamily versus flipping business, because there are some tax advantages. Yeah, because most flips you're doing in less than a year. So you're basically getting taxed as ordinary income, which is, depending on your tax bracket, can be 30%, 40%, which is huge. And then with the apartment game, Like I said, we did a 1031, so we deferred all those gains. And then we're also doing accelerated depreciation. So usually depreciation, which is a paper loss, essentially, you depreciate over 27 and a half years.

31:39but what accelerated depreciation allows you to do is accelerate a lot of that depreciation in the first year. So I think it's like 20 % to 30 % of that depreciation in the first year. So that basically what happens is someone invests like 100K into our deal, they're getting 60 to$70 ,000 in losses in that first year, paper losses, not actual losses. and they can carry those losses forward for 20 years. So the idea is that all the cashflow you're making for years to come, you're not paying taxes on. And then obviously, everyone's situation is different. So I always tell people to talk to their CPA and kind of do their own research too.

32:21Don't take my own work for it, obviously. Basically, we pay little to no tax at this point. The way things are structured, though accelerated depreciation, bonus depreciation is being kind of drawn down right now. And we'll see if they'll keep it going in the future. I had Yona Weiss on the show here a couple of weeks ago, and he does cost segregation studies. Is that what you're talking about? Are you doing cost segregation studies to get the bonus depreciation and the accelerated depreciation? Correct. Yeah. So it's totally worth doing, right? Right now it is. I mean, I think later it's going to be more of a cost benefit analysis as that gets kind of drawn down.

33:03So explain a little bit more about how cost segregation works. You're depreciating. Explain. It's like carpet and there's only certain things that can be accelerated on the depreciation schedule, right? Yeah. It's like an engineering study where they break down the electrical, the drywall into different buckets, like a five-year bucket depreciation 15-year, 27 and a half year. And so the cost segregation study allocates them appropriately so that you could offset those things earlier during the life of the investment, which you want to do because you'd rather offset costs earlier because a dollar today is better than a dollar tomorrow.

33:47Yona made this interesting point. He said, most people don't even know about cost segregation studies and the advantages of doing this bonus depreciation that you're talking about. He said, I'll ask even CPAs, they may have heard of it, but don't really understand it. And it seems like it's a really wise thing to do. Is there any reason not to do a cost segregation study in your mind? I mean, maybe for a small property, like a house or a duplex, maybe it won't make sense. That's the only... Because of the cost of the study and all that. And which is what? How much would you pay on a study? I think for our properties is around$4 ,000.

34:26And your savings are far more than that, obviously. The ROI on that is like, I don't know, something stupid. Yeah. So I wanted to hear a little bit about, we're in a rising interest rate environment. What's it like right now in terms of your investors? Are they skittish to do new deals? Is it harder to find new deals. Talk to me about just what you're seeing in the market right now in the Midwest. I mean, I think definitely investors are a little bit hesitant right now. I wouldn't say they're skittish, but if they are going to invest, they're going to invest less dollars than maybe they were doing a year ago.

35:01And yeah, it's really tough to make deals pencil right now when you have 6 % plus rates and sellers still want what they wanted last year. it doesn't pencil. But for example, the deal we're closing in a week or two in Kansas City, we're assuming the debt at 3.99 % that still has six months of interest only period. And that's what made the deal, even though we have to put a lot more money down because the loan amount based on the difference between the loan amount and the purchase price, we're ending up putting, I think, 40 % down, which is larger than what we've put down on a lot of the other properties.

35:36But with that at 3.99%, that spread between what we can get today and what that is, is made the deal happen. And how are you finding these deals? Do you have brokers that you've developed relationships with that are bringing them to you? Are you doing your own research? Mostly brokers that are bringing it to us. A couple of people have connected with me and we've done two deals now that people connected with me on Twitter and brought the deal to us. Let's hit Twitter. How has Twitter impacted your business? like I said, it brought those deals. I've met a lot of investors. I've made a lot of good friends that now I've met in real life at Recameen, for example.

36:16And yeah, it's helped build my business. I did a study of where our funds come for our deals. And so a third of it has come from my brother and I. A third of it has come from friends and colleagues. And a third of it has come from people I've met on Twitter now. That's wild. Yeah, it is pretty wild. You're meeting people on the internet and they're giving you money. So it's crazy. Yeah, it's really crazy. So, and it's just, they're seeing your content and seeing your tweets and they're reaching out to you by DM and saying, Hey, I'd like to get involved in your deals. Yeah. And then we kind of have like a funnel on our website where they download an ebook and some emails go out.

36:57They Doug Yet does interactions for months before. So it doesn't just happen that easy. And maybe they've been following me on Twitter for six months and then we interact for another few months and then finally they invest in one of our deals. Tell me about... You mentioned a tax strategy book. Tell me about that. Did you write it yourself? Yeah, I wrote it myself. So it's called a tax tax strategy and you could download it on our website as well. What's it go into? It goes into 1031 exchanges, accelerated depreciation, which we touched on, and then also solo 401k. So you could convert your 401k into a solo 401k.

37:39So you could self-direct into real estate deals or other kinds of investments, which is huge. And what's the advantage of doing that, changing it from a regular 401k to a solo 401k for people that don't really understand the difference? you just have more control and hopefully you're going to be able to beat whatever your 401k is doing. It's way more fun. Do you feel like in real estate, you've got way more control than do you invest in the stock market or anything like that? Or would you rather have the control that you have with real estate? No, I don't. I just like investing what I know, basically.

38:15The only other thing, and we've talked about it before, is I invest maybe 1 % or 2 % of my net worth into Bitcoin. That's about it. In case that asymmetric risk pays off, right? Yeah. I mean, so far it's actually paid off pretty well. So I'm happy. Yeah. Oh, you got in early? March, 2020. So there you go. Yeah. That's a pretty good time to buy. This is like, I think 3 ,900, maybe 4 ,000, right around there. So that's... I think it was around 6th. Maybe it was April. I don't know. That was a great time to load up if you had the foresight to do that. Hard to do though, when everything's plummeting and it looked like?

38:51I didn't have the foresight. I just happened to have a few bucks at that moment. So I was like, why not? How'd you get into it? Did you have friends that were pushing it or? I have a friend that's super into it and he's always in my ear telling me to buy it. And I was like, all right, you're a smart guy. I think I at least have to buy a little bit if you're so all about it. Yeah. Is he a real estate guy also? No, he actually is like an e-commerce guy. So we've got a show on Bitcoin called the Bitcoin Fundamentals that I started watching it like in 2000, I don't know when it came out, 17 or 18.

39:25And it kind of got turned on to the whole Bitcoin scene. So it's not widely, it's kind of viewed poorly, I would say, in the real estate Twitter community. Is that your experience? I don't think people are fans of it that much in the real estate space. it is pretty speculative, I would say, but so can real estate be that way, but it's good to diversify a little bit. Yeah. So this is a real estate show, not Bitcoin. So let's jump back to real estate. What's your longer term plan with the apartments? Is there an exit strategy? It sounds like you're just going to hold them, right? Or what's the plan?

40:04Our plan is hold properties longer term, but refinance and return most of the capital within five years and only sell if it's like an older asset to buy something newer, which we did our first Oklahoma deal that we bought in September of 2020. We just sold last October 2022, hit like a 60 % IRR, which is insane. And then we was able to 1031 that money into a property that was 30 years newer. So it was just like a win-win all around. And I had 1031 into that property, sold that property, and then deferred the gain again, and then another 1031. So I've done like, I have two instances now that I've done two 1031s with the same original cash.

40:46Does that make sense? That's wild. Yeah, it makes sense. Total sense. So is there a time period? How does that work? Do you have to hold an investment for a certain period of time before you do another 1031? Or is there no time limit on that? I've heard some mixed things on that. I think you do want to at least hold it at least a year, ideally a couple of years, which we did because I've heard some mixed things on that. I've heard the same. I'm in the middle of a reverse 1031 and I've heard the same, like one or two years, you probably need to hold it before you do anything. You started into the flip business in 2008.

41:25Do you see any similarities now, what's going on now with what the real estate market was like back when you first got started? Not really, just because then the reason why we had that recession is because people were able to get loans willy-nilly, doesn't matter how much money you made and it was just a bunch of bad loans. And now we have good loans and it's really strong. So I think the residential home space is not gonna take a big hit, but when you see the commercial side, I think there's gonna be some distress there just because there's a lot of people that took out bridge loans. And for your listeners that don't know what a bridge loan is, basically, it's a high loan of value loan that's meant to get you over doing work on a property and then doing a refinance into a more permanent loan.

42:15So a lot of the times these rates are also floating. And as you know, rates have skyrocketed over the last 12 months. So a lot of those loans are probably underwater. The loan amount's probably even more than what it's worth. And they went from having a 5 % loan to now they probably have like an 8 % loan. And a lot of those loans are coming due. So a lot of those people are going to have to do something or recapitalize somehow. And so I think there's going to be some opportunity there because of that. I think I saw Nick Huber is trying to start a bank and providing bridge loans to this kind of situation.

42:54I don't know if you saw that. I saw him he was like starting like six businesses or something which seems kind of insane yeah it's throwing a lot at the wall but it sounds like he's having other people lead it and that he's probably just putting his like marketing side behind it I think that's exactly what he's doing he's he's got an equity stake and he's having other people run the thing and yeah which which can work but you still have to do something he's actually doing a cost segregation company too. Got his hands full, I would say. I was just looking at your Twitter feed today and you talked about your why.

43:30And there's a book called from Simon Sinek wrote it. It's called Start With Why, which is a great book. I had Antonia Botero on the show and it came out last week, but she talked about her why. And I just wanted to hear what your why was for what you're up to and what you're doing. Ultimately for me is I have monthly cash flow goals that I want to hit. And those goals are in place because I'll be able to pay for the lifestyle I want to have and the freedom and provide for my family the way I want to provide and then still have some money left over to invest in other people's deals or continue to do our own deals.

44:09But maybe we become more picky at that point and only do crazy good deals because I don't really need to grow it much more. And luckily for me now, we've gotten our portfolio. We're about to close this next deal. We'll have about 420 units in the Midwest, about$35 million in assets under management, which we own more than half of because of the money that we've put into it. And I don't need to do another deal, which is a nice place to be, but we still want to grow. And we want to grow to a hundred million in assets under management. Probably end up being around over a thousand units, maybe 1200 units or so.

44:46And you're at what? 300 and some right now with 420 and 35 million, 420 and 35 million and want to grow it to a third there. Yeah. A third there. And then you think you've got two and a half years. So not bad. That's a lot of growth. You've got the deals, you've got the investors, you can make it happen. Yeah, we're on track to get there for sure. The goal is to get there probably by the end of 2025. And that tweet that you referred to, I think, like you said, the why is so important because especially in the real estate business, it's not like rainbows and unicorns all the time. It gets really tough.

45:26And when it gets really tough, it's like you need something that's higher to get you through all that. You need something like, this is my goal. This is what I'm working to get to. I know this is tough right now, but I'm going to get through it because that's where I want to get to. 100%. I agree with that. I'm going through that right now. I've got tenants that left one of my rentals and it's just like, they just trashed it. It's really in bad shape. And the first time you walk in, it's just like, oh my God. Yeah. I have countless stories like that. I'm sure. I'm sure. Yeah. It's, it's brutal.

46:02But yeah, to your point, having that long-term goal of the cashflow to fund your lifestyle, which, you know, kind of makes the tough days easier to get through. Yeah. And like, I just actually retired my wife too, which has been great for our family. She, she's less stressed. She's has time to like take care of herself, like do all the things she wants to do for our family. And, and it's just been, and we even have more because I have flexibility with my work and she's not working anymore. We've been spending a lot more time with each other and it's just been absolutely amazing. That's awesome.

46:38What was she doing? What was her career? She was in the healthcare industry, like healthcare tech, implementing Epic systems in clinics and stuff and doing some coding and reporting and all that kind of stuff. And was that always one of your goals was to be able to allow her to retire to focus on. And you've got how many kids? Honestly, it wasn't, but we just got to a point where it just didn't make sense for her to work anymore. She was just too stressed and couldn't be a good mom and be a good employee too. It was just really tough. And we just got to a point where it just didn't make sense anymore.

47:16It's really tough to do it all well. Something has to give when you're being stretched thin. I wanted to know, you mentioned the$100 million number. Do you think you'll be able to quit. Do you have a cash flow number where it's like, that's enough cash flow, I don't need to do anymore? And it's not that you're hands off, but you're not continuing to try to grow the portfolio? Yeah. I mean, that's the plan. Maybe we'll still do a deal or two here and there, but it'd be very selective and very picky or not quite sure what we'll do at that point or maybe become a professional LP while still actively managing what we have.

47:55I mean, if we have that many assets under management, it'll still be a decent amount of time that we have to put into it. For sure. For sure. Do you think you'd miss the deal and the thrill of the deals and that action? Is that something you really love? I do like that. And it definitely gives me a rush. When a good deal comes through, it's pretty exciting. But I think I'll find other things to kind of keep that going in some other way, other businesses, whatever. I'll figure out something to keep... I'm definitely never that person that's going to be able to just sit on the couch and do nothing.

48:32That's for sure. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. Hey, it's Sean O'Malley, just popping in with a quick message. If you like this podcast, well, I've got great news for you. We've got a handful of other shows for you to explore, from learning about Bitcoin to embracing a richer, wiser, happier lifestyle. Just go into your podcast app and type in We Study Billionaires to find our collection of shows. We Study Billionaires is our flagship podcast, and we've made a name for ourselves over the years by interviewing the best investors in the world, including Ray Dalio, Howard Marks, Joel Greenblatt, and many, many more.

49:08My colleagues Stig Brodersen, Clay Fink, Kyle Grieve, Preston Pysh, and William Green each hosts their own We Study Billionaires episodes and bring their own unique perspectives. A whole new world of insights awaits you. Just go ahead and type in We Study Billionaires into your podcast app and see what you've been missing out on. Seriously, go ahead. I promise you'll like what you find. Bonus points if you show your support for our work by clicking follow. If something piques your interest, just start listening. No hard feelings. I'll be waiting for you back here. Just like everybody else, there was a time when I was a beginner investor, and I have to say, investing is particularly filled with jargon that can just make it so difficult for new investors to understand what is going on.

49:48But it's never too late to get smarter about stock investing from the ground up. At The Investors Podcast Network, we've made a habit of studying the world's best investors, and now I'm distilling those learnings into a simple course for you, or for anyone in your life who you might want to share the gift of knowledge with. With my How to Get Started with Stocks course, you can master the principles of excellent lifelong investing with valuable insights for both beginners and pros. The course covers 10 different sections, beginning with the basics of what a stock actually is and how the stock markets work, to strategies to optimize your retirement savings, how to pick great companies for the long term, what to look for in ETFs, and how to monitor your investments, plus so much more.

50:27To begin getting smarter about investing, just visit theinvestorspodcast.com slash get started with stocks. That's theinvestorspodcast.com slash get started with stocks. And for a limited time, you can use code STOCKS15 for a 15 % discount at checkout. Not to be cliche, but building a market-beating portfolio really doesn't have to be a mystery, at least with the right tools. If you've listened to our podcast for a while, then you know we spend a lot of time learning from savvy investors. So why not use the same tools we do? With TIP Finance, you can. Screening for great companies, calculating intrinsic value, keeping up with legendary investors' portfolios, and more are all not just possible, but easy to do.

51:13TIP Finance was created by investors for investors. It's quite literally the tools we wanted to use ourselves when researching investments in a simple to use interface. You can get started by creating an account for free. Who knows, maybe TIP Finance will help you find your next 100 to 1 investment. Between the screener and Legend Investment Portfolios to reference, I've gotten a ton of ideas from TIP Finance. What are you waiting for? Take the next step in your investment journey today with the right tools at your fingertips. Grab your device and type into your browser, theinvestorspodcast.com slash tip-finance to get started.

51:52That's theinvestorspodcast.com slash tip-finance. All right, back to the show. I wanted to get into your advocacy for men's mental health. This is really an important area for me. I actually listened to a podcast that Chris Powers did last night, and he talked about just crashing and burning in his career and his personal life just had too much going on and just burnt out. And he was really open and raw and honest. And I think it's easy to see guys and women on real estate Twitter and feel like they've got it all figured out. And that's often... It's not the case. So I want to hear a little bit of how you got involved and interested in your advocacy for mental health.

52:39In 2015, we were still going to the foreclosure auctions. And when you go to the foreclosure auctions. Sometimes second loans go to auction. So it'll be the first loan and then there'll be a second loan behind it. And we bought a second loan. When I thought it was a first loan, I got bad information from the title company. And with the trustee sales, you can't get title insurance. So it's not like you get covered for that in a normal real estate transaction. And so when we had to sell that property later, we ended up having to pay off that first loan and there was a substantial loss there. I was working with an investor that just took it very badly.

53:19And I was in my late 20s and basically attacked me. And I just had a lot of shame and guilt from that whole experience. I went into a depressive episode for a few years where I couldn't even really get out of bed. And not for three years straight, but off and on during those three years, it was up and down. And yeah, and I just went and that's why, you know, I went through therapy, different kinds of medications, retreats. I went inside and figured out a lot of things. And that's why my why and my goals are so such the way that they are. Cause I realized like, I don't want to build this like crazy portfolio.

54:00I just want to create even it's still a large portfolio. Don't get me it wrong. It's still like, we're still reaching high, you know, we're still going somewhere. But like, for me, it's more of about a lifestyle and creating the life. It's more about creating the life that I want than like some ego trip of building this huge portfolio. And I think that as men in the business world, we're not connected. We're just like gung-ho, we got to do all these things and we don't, we're not introspective enough when we're not building, we're not like methodically building a way that's like best for ourselves.

54:36We're doing it a lot of times for what we think the world will see as best for us or something. Yeah, that's exactly what Chris was saying. Like he was so concerned about what everyone else thought about him. And it was just like completely somewhat image oriented in a way rather than just being like, what do I feel about myself? What do I think? Yeah, exactly. Like you need to build the life that you want to build. and maybe it is that billion dollar portfolio and maybe you're that special person that's gonna get it there. But for me, it's just like a living lifestyle. I wanna live in the place I wanna live to be able to do the things that I wanna do, but still challenge myself and grow and build something.

55:17It takes a lot of courage to talk about this. Were there anybody, did you have any influences that encouraged you to talk about the experience of depression? Yeah. Sean Sweeney is one person that's active on Twitter that's kind of had some mental health stuff and him and I have talked a little bit. And there's a couple other people on Twitter that kind of motivated me to talk about it more because the reason why I talk about it is hopefully my experience can relate to some other people that are struggling too so that they can know that there's hope and that they'll get better and they'll be better off in the long term because of it.

55:56And I don't think the depression stuff is a weakness. I think it's actually a strength because naturally I'm a person that will just kind of go, go, go and keep on going. And like the depression thing actually like kind of forces me to like slow down and kind of reflect and, and kind of realize that maybe I'm like going too hard. And so it kind of ends up being a good thing in a weird way, even though it sucks. It absolutely sucks. I've been through a couple episodes myself and it's brutal to go through. It's brutal for the people around you. If family has never experienced it, it can be really hard to see this guy who's ambitious and hard-charging and on the go all the time, all of a sudden just being able to be like, not do anything.

56:39That's hard to... If you haven't been educated in mental health issues, it can be tough. I do think it's great that guys like you and Sean are open about it and talking about it to get more awareness out there because it happens. Like you said, it sucks to go through, but there are gifts to it as well. And that's actually one thing, once I get to that goal, I want to hit doing something in the mental health world with men in the business world. Not sure quite what that means yet, but to be involved in that in some way, I would get a lot out of that. Yeah, that'd be awesome. That would be a good why too, like your next why.

57:20Do you have any practices that you implement? You mentioned a few things pretty quickly, but I wanted to really kind of touch on this. But do you have any practices that you do or things that you implement in your own life to not prevent another depression, but I guess in a sense to make sure that you are functioning on all cylinders and maximizing what you're able to do? Yeah, I think it's, I'm not drinking. I'm, you know, I'm keep active, ski, rock climb, do things, walks. I'm huge on walks because it makes me think through things really well. It helps me clear the mind, but it's not so taxing that it's like exhausting either.

58:04Do you take your, like, are you listening to anything when you're going for a walk or is it just you and your thoughts? I'd say it's like 50-50. Sometimes I'll listen to a podcast. Sometimes I just won't. And I'll just like let my mind do whatever it's going to ruminate in. And a lot of times I figure out, solve problems that way. But also like intense workouts help kind of solve problems because after you have those endorphins going and you could kind of really think through some things or like things pop into your head that wouldn't have otherwise popped into your head. And so just making sure that self-care is very important, eating healthy, taking care of yourself, and just building and creating good relationships and people around me that could support me.

58:48Because we all go through tough times and it's not always good and you just need the right people around you to support you through those tough times. And so you said that was 2016 when you first... 2015. Yeah. And I've kind of gone through little things since then, but I've been going to therapy regularly and just talking about things. And another thing that it's really helped me with is just like, it's made me a lot more empathetic towards other people. I was like, oh, why is this guy like, maybe he didn't sleep well. Maybe he's going through something. Yeah, I totally agree. I think it does develop a compassion that you may have not had otherwise.

59:27I know for me, in my case, I didn't have the compassion that before a depression, as I did after going through a brutal one, it softens you or I don't know what it, whatever, but it, do you think somebody asked this, Chris, like, cause he's kind of softened up a little bit. He is more compassionate. Has it affected your business life at all? Like, is it, you know, in a sense, like made it a liability that you've got compassion and empathy or is it completely the opposite? I think it's the opposite. I think people could feel it in you and they like, oh, this guy like kind of sort of cares about me.

59:59He's not just like trying to get everything he can out of me. And I think it just makes for better conversations, deeper conversations and everyone gets, it just gets more value. Yeah. It's definitely a multi-pronged approach. I think like you were sharing all the different things you do like to, to manage it. And it definitely has its gifts. Like you said, it's hard work to keep it going. You know, it's like, You got to work at it every day. You got to keep going, keep those routines, keep doing it. 100%. 100%. Yeah. I just want to thank you for sharing because I just think the more people share about it, the better.

1:00:34And it takes courage to talk about it. And hopefully if it helps one person today, we've made a dent. Yeah. I mean, when I posted that Twitter thread about my whole experience, I was over the moon how people were supportive. and I got so many DMs, people sharing about their experiences. And it's just, I think a lot more people deal with it than they admit because it's kind of has a stigma for sure. I completely agree. I completely agree. Even though it's becoming less so as you know, it's becoming more open out there. But the stigma is still there and it's still very difficult to talk about. I mean, this is kind of challenging for me, honestly, knowing that this is going out to however many people watch it.

1:01:22But it's difficult to talk about, but good stuff. I wanted to jump into the fire round here that I've got for you. Sounds like you are into podcasts and learning. And I want to hear about a most impactful book or podcast that has made a big impression on you. I really like the psychology of money because we're just talking about that. Why do you actually want to make this money and what is it going to do for you? And I think it also goes on into why certain people are good investors, et cetera, et cetera, which is cool. And I think you said you've read it before too, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's a fantastic book.

1:02:01I listened to it on Audible. There's not a lot of books I will listen to twice. There's a handful though, and that is one of them. Morgan Housel is the author And I think I've mentioned, he's a great writer. We've got a newsletter called We Study Markets. It's free, and we've covered a lot of his stuff, chapter by chapter in that book. I did one. His last chapter is called Confessions, how he manages his own money. And it's a great chapter. It's just how he thinks about his own money and manages his financial life. Another book I like is Shoe Dog, The Nike Story by Phil Knight. Amazing. Has nothing to do with real estate, but it has a lot to do with business and just kind of being, being in the trenches and getting things done.

1:02:45Isn't there a movie coming out? Scrappy. He was super scrappy. Super scrappy. Right. Isn't there a movie coming out about called error or something like that with Matt Damon? Oh yeah. About the Michael Jordan shoes, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. The Nikes. And he's, he's got to, he's got to, there's gotta be a Phil Knight in the, in the movie. So there's, I would assume so. Yeah. And I think that's another thing that's made us successful in our business is we're pretty scrappy. We get in there. Before we fired our old manager, my brother was working and leasing units on site on one of our properties.

1:03:21And that was very enlightening. And we learned a lot. And you know, you got to get your hands dirty sometimes and get in there. You know, you're not too good for any role that is being done in your business. What about your best investment? You've had several, it sounds like here lately, but I don't think you've mentioned your best investment. Honestly, my best investment was the house that I just sold in California that I bought in 2013. We put a lot of money into it, but that property I was able to sell and move that money into the property I bought in Oregon and still have money on the side to continue to invest in what we're doing.

1:03:55And the only reason why I bring that up is because a lot of times people say that your house is not an investment, but it totally is. Anything you hold long enough is going to be a good investment, basically, in the US. It's like the Robert Kiyosaki thing, the rich dad, poor dad. He says that your house is a liability. It's not an asset. That was my next question. What controversial opinion do you hold that the real estate world may not share? Do you have any other ones? That is maybe one, but I agree with you. I've done well in my own home. So. Yeah. And then what's actually controversial, not maybe not on Twitter, but just like holding, not maybe not forever, but like 10 plus years, that's like very unusual because most people, like, especially in the syndication world, they're holding for five to seven years because a lot of times on the back end, that's where they're making their money.

1:04:48But in our particular deals, we're invested so much money into the deals that we're in it with our investors to go into the longterm. kind of a Warren Buffett principle, just long-term holding, like never sell. Strategically sell to 1031 and to something better. There you go. Exactly. Right. Yeah. Keep it rolling. Keep that rolling. I love it. Keep pushing the can down the road, basically. Last one here. What does success mean to you? That one is one I'm always still figuring out, but like I said, is to get to my goals and the why and all that kind of stuff that we talked about so that I could have the freedom and lifestyle that I want to have and have the people I love and people I want to be around close and have that time to actually spend with them.

1:05:38That's success for me. That's great. I want to kind of wrap it up here. So I really want to thank you for your time and reconnecting today. This has been a lot of fun talking with you. And thanks for connecting me with your mother, Marissa Solis, that I'm going to talk to her in a week or two. Yeah, it's just been fun. Cool. Yeah. I feel like we've gotten into each other pretty well, actually. Yeah, it's really cool. So for anybody that would like to reach out to you, maybe they're struggling with a tough time, what's the best way for them to get in touch? You could go on my website, jb2investments.com or on Twitter at jb2investments, or you could look up my name and then I have the ebook on there.

1:06:20And then I also have a blog with, you know, I've kind of like downloaded my brain into these blog posts. So you could kind of learn a lot about what we're doing. And if you're trying to get started in the business, it's a good way to get, I kind of make it pretty simple too and digestible. How do you find the blog? Is that on your company website? Yeah, I just go to my website and there's a tab for blog. Oh, I'll definitely have to check that out. Moses Kagan has got one and it's great. It's like amazing education in real estate. I honestly used his sort of as a guide with my own twist. Yeah. I'll put links in the show notes.

1:06:57He's a better writer than me, but I tried. No, he's great. And it's awesome that people are sharing their, their, I guess their playbook, but just what they know. It's such a great thing that people are willing to share. Like they do on whether it's a blog or real estate, Twitter, it's super helpful. Yeah. I think it's because like a lot of people are like scared to share a lot of those things because they think they might be helping their competition, right? But I think what you get in return is much more than what you might be hurting yourself. Yeah. Just kind of have that giving abundance mentality.

1:07:28If you actually are, you probably aren't actually hurting yourself. Yeah. So I will put links in the show notes to your blog, to Moses's blog, to the company website so that people can reach out and keep their learning going. Or even like I said, if they're having a tough time, reach out to me, reach out to you. Happy to talk to anyone. Yeah, I'm always happy to chat, that kind of stuff. Jonathan, thanks so much for your time, man. Thank you. Okay, folks, that's all I had for today's episode. I hope you enjoyed the show and I'll see you back here real soon. Thank you for listening to TIP. Make sure to subscribe to We Study Billionaires by the Investors Podcast Network.

1:08:08Every Wednesday, we teach you about Bitcoin and every Saturday, we study billionaires and the financial markets. To access our show notes, transcripts or courses, go to theinvestorspodcast.com. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any decision, consult a professional. This show is copyrighted by the Investors Podcast Network. Written permission must be granted before syndication or rebroadcasting.