REI186: The Power of Zigging While Others Zag w/ The Duke of Dirt

26:12This is a tough question. And I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. There are tremendous benefits of having an MBA. I'm not going to lie. And a lot of it is perception. When people see MBA from school that they know or respect, they just immediately put a label on you that, oh, suddenly this person knows what they're doing. It's the same thing with working experience. Well, that doesn't always mean you are better or more knowledgeable about doing something. And real work experience trumps everything. And like you said, mixing the real work experience with the content that is widely available across internet is a recipe for success.

26:58But you have to put in the work. You can't just hope for it to fall in your lap. You have to go out and do it. With the MBA, I mean, it kind of, you have to put in the work, obviously, to get into the school. And there's, you have capital investment potentially. But I'll be honest, it's been tremendously helpful. And if I were to redo it, I don't know. I'm certainly proud of it. And it's been tremendously helpful. Now, look back and say, all right, if I know now everything and I use those two years that I demand to get real world experience, would I be in the same place? I don't know. That's a political question that I'm not sure I can answer.

27:36But I think you can succeed in both ways today. That's my best answer. Both things work. Yeah, it's a tough answer. I interviewed Kevin Clark, who got his MBA in real estate finance at NYU. And at the end of the interview, I asked him what his best investment had been. And without a hesitation, he said his education. Because he was in commercial real estate brokerage, he was able to go in and work with the seller and really look at the financials and really understand them. And just having that MBA gave him credibility that a guy that didn't have it just didn't have. But then there's the opportunity cost of what you're spending on an education.

28:21Yeah, I've had different answers to this. So it's just kind of interesting to hear people's thoughts. Look, Kevin Clark may have had a different, better experience than I did, but I think I'd probably be better off going in and looking at financials of a piece of an asset in real estate or a company, doing it, doing the actual work with somebody who is an expert as my mentor, as my boss or something, I think I would be better off doing that than going and doing, sitting in a classroom and learning out of a book. But that's just me. I learn in a unique way. That makes sense. I wanted to get into the topic of advice following.

29:01We kind of touched on this a little bit. I wanted to get your thoughts on just the dangers of following conventional wisdom. I mean, you were in an environment where a lot of people were telling you to whatever, go get your law degree, go get your MBA, go whatever, get kind of a more conventional path versus what I find a lot of successful real estate investors are contrarians. They go out and do their own thing. They do not follow conventional wisdom. Talk to us a little bit about that, going out on your own and doing what you think you should do versus doing what you want to do. That's a tough path and a tough struggle, I think, for a lot of younger people.

29:36Talk to us about just how you think you can navigate it. Any advice you have for navigating that journey, I guess you would say. Yeah, that is an interesting concept with following conventional wisdom and going down the path that people tell you to do versus doing what you truly desire to do. And I want to caveat this by saying, I personally am in a situation that has enabled me to be a little more bold with taking action of going out on my own. And I am grateful for that. And not everybody can do that. But when you look at your life in the bigger picture, at least here's what I did. I go to work and I say, this person who is a few steps higher up than I am in the hierarchy.

30:26Does this job intrigue me? Is this a job I would be happy doing in 10, 15, 20 years? And the path to get there, am I going to be building something on the way that I can look back on and be happy I spent 20 years doing it? And for me, the answer was clearly not. I was certain that I did not want to be the people who I was looking up to and I was starving to go build something for myself. Growing up, I was taking advice primarily from people who have followed the corporate structure. They all tell you, education, corporation, just follow the leader. And even I just had this thought, even with your dad's situation, there's still a hierarchy of working your way up the football coaching hierarchy, you know, like, and that's a, not that it's a well-trodden path, but it's somewhat laid out.

31:23Yeah. You fought, you work hard and you go up the thing and great. And many people succeed and live great lives and I am happy for them, but I'm not one of those people. And I think there's a lot of other people that probably align with me. And some days I would wake up and look in the mirror and say, what's wrong with me? Why can't I just be like that? Well, I haven't figured that answer out yet, but I can tell you, I'm not going to force myself into being a corporate warrior. It just was never going to work for me. And it was very clear early on that I didn't want to, I don't want to say waste, but I didn't want to live 20, 30 years of my life just to retire and do nothing and look back and say, oh, what did I do?

32:06I want to do something that I'm proud of, that I'm passionate about. And that means I needed to go out on my own. Again, one little caveat. It is extremely important for me that I felt that I had the requisite training and experience to be able to execute on a strategy and succeed. and I'm at the point now where I feel that, but that wasn't true. And I put my head down for a couple of years unhappily. It was always that carrot at the end of the road saying, all right, we're working towards something and then we're going to go. Was that your thought process rather as you were at this institutional real estate firm that you were just trying to learn as much as you could, build your skillset?

32:52Was that how you thought about it? Yeah. If I'm being frank, yeah. I mean, it's not something an employer wants to hear and it's a little bit shallow, but yeah, I was a paid fill-in for a couple of years in my mind. I was there to do my job effectively. I certainly wanted to do my job well, be thought of highly and do great. But I was certainly there to learn as much as I possibly could, make the connections with the necessary people and build a foundation to jumpstart my real estate investing outfit. This is kind of a common theme I've heard with several of the interviews that I've done of people that have followed a traditional path.

33:34I interviewed a guy, Raleigh Williams, who got a law degree at Chicago, University of Chicago, got like a top law job right out of college, but he was, you know, absolutely hated it. Came from a family of lawyers. And that I think can just be, and I had a similar experience in my own life, kind of following traditional advice. And then you hit this point where it's just like, crap, this hasn't worked out for me. I have what I'm supposed to want and I'm still unhappy or I'm still like, this just isn't doing it. I think that can be a hard realization for people. And it's like, all right, what's next then?

34:07If this path hasn't done the trick, how do I segue into doing whatever the next chapter is? And I think that can be a really tricky road to navigate. And you're kind of in the middle of that right now. Talk to us a little more about that, like how it's been for you, the transition. You've recently gone out on your own. So can you talk to us just about leaving more of an institutional job and going out and doing your own thing? Yeah, I'm happy to. It's been that carrot at the end of the road for years. And I can tell you, I was certainly scared to wake up those days and weeks after thinking, oh my gosh, I've made a tremendous mistake.

34:44I'm very happy to say I wake up every morning jumping out of bed so happy and invigorated and passionate about what I can do today to move the ball forward just a little bit. I'm as excited and really invigorated as I've been in my professional career ever right now. I were to look back and if I were to do something different or I don't think I would, I just advice I would give to people trying to do the same thing is you've got to work really hard side of your job to set the framework so that when you do make the move, you're not just, okay, what do I do now? Have things set up, make those relationships, communicate to people in the realm of the industry you're going into about what you're going to do.

35:34For me, that was brokers, lawyers, accountants, people like that. I mean, I've been working on this for a couple of years now. And now it's like, okay, call each one of these people. Here's exactly what I'm doing. Here's the criteria I'm looking for. And do you know anybody that is doing anything in the realm of that? I'd love to meet. Cool. So tell us what you've been up to, like since you've left your company, what are you been focusing on? Talk to us about the niche in real estate that you've focused on. I'm looking to acquire multifamily, Class B in particular, I mean, I'm not, I'd look at some class C plus, let's call it class B, anywhere between five to a hundred units on the main line.

36:20Let's call it a tier one city. And the thesis is you can take a lot of these assets, which are owned by a large portion of them are owned by the baby boomer cohort, and they are sub-institutional in nature. They are often self-managed or managed for occupancy's sake. Their interiors are not renovated or they're outdated, I should say. And oftentimes the rents are under market. Now, this is the perfect storm. You don't find these assets and they don't trade hands often. But this cohort of people is growing older. And when people grow older, oftentimes assets trade hands. So I am looking to acquire those assets.

37:02And how I'm actually doing that is trying to establish relationships with as many people as I can, oftentimes those owners. And I'm playing a long game here. I fully expect to sit back and maybe I won't acquire something for a year. But over time, over the next 10 years, these properties will trade hands and I hope to be the one to acquire them. Can you talk to us? I've got several questions here. Are you bringing in outside partners for capital? Are you bringing in any kind of partners with a different skill set? Talk to us about that. On the capital front, I am raising capital from a couple sources.

37:37I mean, there's going to be a large family and friends portion of it. And then from an institutional LP side, I mean, that's still in the works. I don't know on that front where that's going to be. In terms of operational partners, no, not yet. I'm open to it, but you're looking at it. I'm the show. So have you made your first investment then? Have you purchased anything yet? I've got some promising. I don't have anything tied up yet, but I hope to report back soon that I do. Okay, great. We'll have you back on the show and kind of get an update. But how are you looking for deals? Is it primarily through brokers that you're reaching out to or what's the best way you're finding to find these deals that are baby boomers that are tired of managing their properties?

38:23Yes, there's the brokerage, which the brokerage community provides tremendous value. In my particular instance, what I found with broker deals is the asking price is wildly off from the price that I'm willing to pay. and I am going to stick by the fundamentals that I've set out. And I'm looking for specific metrics. And if they don't hit, I'm not gonna throw in rent growth that I hope to happen. I'm just not gonna do it. That's what I've seen with broker deals. I've had more success with talking to people and getting warm introductions to owners. That's where I've had the most success. And having conversations with these people who are oftentimes, I wouldn't say, there's no fire sales going on that I'm dealing with, but there's reasons these people are selling, whether it's repositioning capital or they have a bigger deal and like this deal is just too small, it's not worth their time and they need to get it off their hands and put the money back into this bigger deal.

39:28That's where I've had more success. So yeah, direct to seller. And I'm not oftentimes cold calling. I know everybody loves the cold call, not hating on the cold call. but a warm introduction. Now that, now you're playing with fire. It's really good. Yeah. I am glad you mentioned that. I did an interview with AJ Osborne who does self-storages and he had an interesting strategy where he would just ask, let's say in his case, it was a self-storage mom and pop owner out for a coffee or just take him to lunch, just saying he'd like to just learn a little bit about the business. He would never say he wanted to buy their property.

40:05But what he would say is like, develop a relationship with them, develop rapport, some trust that's involved, and then just ask if he knows of anybody that is interested in selling. And a lot of times, maybe they wouldn't be at that point, but they'd still keep him in mind. And he was able to generate a lot of deals that closed because using that method, which I thought was... And I like your idea too, just a warm... What did you call it? The warm... Warm intro. Warm intro. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're not coming out of left field and saying, hi, I'm calling about one main street. I was like, are you going to sell?

40:39I'm going to sell for 10 million. Okay. Well, it's worth 1 million. No deal. No, a warm intro. Hey, I have a friend that's looking to buy X in this area. I think your property fits. Would you like to meet them? And I'm not the way I'm at. Usually a friend's making the intro and then I'll take it from there. I found success. I mean, you obviously have to be connected or have a solid network, which is something I'm always working on. And I'm not coming in hot. Hey, let's make a transaction. You're making friends here. This is all, we're playing a really long game. I'm not looking for a quick buck.

41:11I'm not looking to screw people over. I'm trying to make connections and make deals sometime down the road. Yeah, your reputation doesn't go away, right? So it's something you want to maintain and develop. We mentioned, I mentioned early on, like you and I became friends through real estate Twitter. I just wanted to hear how you just first got involved in the community. why you chose to remain anonymous, kind of the pros and cons of that, and then just the benefits that it's provided you so far, just being involved in real estate Twitter. I am an advocate of real estate Twitter, as you probably can understand.

41:45I was one weekend trying to learn as much as I possibly could on - How long ago was that? Just how, like a couple of years ago or - 2018 or 2019, but I didn't start with my actual The Duke of Dirt account until the summer of 2021. And this is when I kept telling people, there's real value here. There's a lot of smart people that are sharing tremendous information and I want to be involved. But for me, issue was always my job. You work in a antiquated, let's call it what it is. Real estate is mostly an antiquated industry with a lot of rigid rules. And most of the times when you work at places that are a little more institutional, that have reporting standards and stuff, social media, you can have social media, but once you start talking about real estate and opinions and stuff like that, it gets dicey.

42:40For me, being a young person, it was a complete no. I couldn't do it. And I kept telling myself, you're making excuses. You're just not getting involved. You're making excuses. Well, I said, we're not making any more excuses. We're going to make an account anonymous, and I'm not going to tweet anything that I wouldn't say myself with my name. But there's that layer of, I don't want to call it safety, but there's just like a layer where if you search my real name on Google, it's not going to come up, which that was my solution. And it's been, I mean, the connections I've made on real estate, Twitter, people that I have somewhat quick access to is remarkable, really.

43:22I mean, I've had conversations with people that if I would have sent them a message on LinkedIn with my real profile, no thought, no way I would have gotten conversation. Well, I sent it from Twitter. Oh, sure. When do you want to meet? I mean, not always, but I've gotten responses where it's sure, whenever, what's good. And that's powerful. That's really powerful. Yeah. I've experienced the same thing with Twitter. I'll invite different people that I follow to be on the podcast. And everybody, I don't think I've had anyone say no. So it's just like that power of the relationships that you can build has just kind of blown my mind.

43:59And it's just been wonderful. I've really loved it. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. Hey, it's Sean O'Malley, just popping in with a quick message. If you like this podcast, well, I've got great news for you. We've got a handful of other shows for you to explore. from learning about Bitcoin to embracing a richer, wiser, happier lifestyle. Just go into your podcast app and type in We Study Billionaires to find our collection of shows. We Study Billionaires is our flagship podcast, and we've made a name for ourselves over the years by interviewing the best investors in the world, including Ray Dalio, Howard Marks, Joel Greenblatt, and many, many more.

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47:21That's theinvestorspodcast.com slash tip-finance. All right, back to the show. I wanted to talk a little bit more about the Twitter threads. That's kind of what you're known for is the threads that you do. And we talked a little bit before the podcast started about just what goes into them. So I wanted to talk to you just about the amount of work that goes into it. How do you go about doing it? The research that's involved. Go into a little bit about your process for writing the threads that you do. Okay. You ready? I'm ready. Get your notepad ready. I got it right here. I sit down and I figure out somebody who I would like to learn more about.

48:00And when it started, they were the obvious big names, Sam Zell, Steve Schwarzman, guys like this. And I go on to Spotify or wherever, and I type their name and I queue up as many podcasts as they have done. Okay. For my week, this is when I used to commute a lot and I'm listening on 175 times speed. And whenever a little tidbit of information where I think is valuable comes up, I'll look at the timestamp and I'll write it down on a notepad or in my notes. If I'm driving, I'll try to scribble it. And at the end of the week, I'll sit down with my timestamps and I'll put it on paper. And that's really it.

48:45I mean, doing that takes a lot of time and it's not always podcast. Sometimes I'm going on YouTube and I'm queuing up a list there. Sometimes it's a book. Sometimes there are news articles. But the point is, I'm really trying to understand these people and then taking stuff they've said and using the same first tweet. That's the most important part because if you don't have the first tweet that really says, whoa, I want to read that. If it's not, you could say I'm giving away 10 bars of gold in the fourth tweet and nobody's going to say, oh, I'd like that. No, you just won't get it. Pretty much what I've found something that works.

49:27And if you look at my tweets, it's mainly the same thing. You say the person's name, you say they're worth an ungodly amount of money. And you tell the audience that they have so much experience. And then you tell them, well, they have all this money. They have all the experience. They must know something. Well, I've gone out and I've curated 10 golden lessons from them. And here they are. And usually they're pretty darn good. I think, I mean, I like to say something. They are. They're very good. So anybody that doesn't follow you, follow the Duke of Dirt for sure. I think the one that caught my attention was the one on Sam Zell.

50:01And I love Am I Being Too Subtle? The book was, I just think he's a character and enjoyed reading that. But do you have any favorites that you've done of the threads that you've done? What are some of your favorites and some of the lessons that kind of stand out? Yes. I would say the first one that I ever did and how this all started was kind of have a rule for myself now that I am producing content on Twitter. It's hard. It's not easy. I've come up with ideas. Whenever I consume content, I have to produce at least one piece of content. And so it's the weekend and I'm just on YouTube listening to John Gray of Blackstone who headed their real estate.

50:39And now he's the president of the whole thing. And he's dropping, I like to say, bars of gold. Just tremendous pieces of knowledge. And I'm writing all these notes and I finished listening to two or three YouTube videos. And I said, what? This is like 15 tweets. I might as well put this into a thread and then cherry pick parts of the thread for the rest of the month. And that's what I'm going to do. I said, oh my gosh, I have so much content now. This is amazing. Well, I did that for the first time and obviously it went great. So I said, okay, I'm onto something. But he, to answer your question, he is, one, he's very wealthy, but he's relatable and he doesn't speak in, I may have said some big words to make me sound smart.

51:22He doesn't do that. He's obviously very intelligent person, but he is so eloquent with how he presents an idea and explains it and talks through an investment thesis. I think that's, for me, that's a sign of just, I like that. In very simple terms, like just the way he explains things. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you look at some of his lessons, they're gold. One of my favorites that I've taken or that I tell people he tells people when they take their first job two things. You want to look for a culture of meritocracy, somewhere you can go, work hard, be great, and be rewarded for it, and a culture of teaching, somewhere where people are happy and enjoy teaching younger people because this is how you're going to grow and become successful.

52:10He always tells people that. I've always taken that one. I mean, a few other lessons, And there's a lot. Yeah, there's a ton of them. Definitely. Like you said, read some of these. They're really great. Sternlich, Barry Sternlich, too, is not opposed to an interview. He really likes it. And I think that's one of my better threads just because he's spoken so much. He's CEO of Starwood. Is that right? Yes. Yes. Yeah. He's on Squawk Box a lot, correct? Yeah. You've got it. Yeah. He says, find the freight trains in your life and get on them, not in front of them. That's not actually his direct quote.

52:43I remember he said that he was told that by a professor in college, I believe. But I think that's pretty basic, but it's very true. Look in the world today, and I'm sure you could see a handful of things that maybe wouldn't be something you want to get into. I could think in real estate, I mean, I'm going to listen to this in 10 years and say, oh, what an idiot. But you look at office sector, you say, that's an interesting sector. I don't know what's going to happen there. and I could be totally wrong and it could boom. But that's one where I don't know I would get in front of the tree. Now, I could be totally wrong.

53:20And that's just an example there. Another Barry Sternlicht is hope is not a business strategy. And I like to think that, you know, you see people acquiring assets and today I do the numbers. I really look at the rents. And I say, how in the hell are these people getting to that number? And the only thing that I can come up with is their assumptions are entirely based on hope. And that is not something I am interested in investing on. That's kind of one I fall back on. And then just two quick ones. Steve Shortsman founded, created Blackstone. He likes to tell people, write or call the people you admire.

54:02You never know what can happen. And Steve Schwartzman's famous for writing presidents or big time people. And this is before he was who he is. And he said often he would get invites to go to houses and interesting things happen. And I think that's kind of relatable to Twitter a little bit where you don't know what's going to happen. And somehow you can get a thread and all of a sudden you have Sam Zell in your DMs. That's not what's going to happen here, but it's just cool. that one. And then Sam Zell just says, when people show you who they are, believe them. I think that's my favorite. His. His main takeaway that I took from his book was like, always buy below replacement cost.

54:39Yep. And don't buy with negative leverage. Correct. Right. Any other qualities that kind of stick out for you of all of these investors that you've focused on for your threads that have made them successful? What are some of the commonalities that you've seen? There's one that every single one of these people has. It is they have a tremendous belief in themselves to accomplish what many thought they could not accomplish. It starts with you. And if you don't believe truly about what you can do, I mean, I'm not going to say it's not going to happen, but these people don't exhibit that quality. When you look at Steven Ross, who he was working for a company, he was fired from his job because he went out with his boss one night and I don't know, punched him.

55:25That's the story. And he went out the next day and said, I can do this better than you. And guess what? He did. So he, obviously he had some help. He had his uncle, but these people really truly believe in themselves. Yeah. They're also independent thinkers, contrarians, it seems like to some degree. anything else that comes to mind of some of these guys? I would say yes. The contrarian thinkers, Ira Lubert says that often. He's another thread that I've really enjoyed writing about. He doesn't talk publicly very often, but I wish he would. He has tremendous mind. Okay. I wanted to kind of segue into your newsletter.

56:06I think you may have mentioned that a little bit. Talk to us about that. What the content is you're producing? Is it kind of the threads that the newsletter is, or is it totally unrelated? No, it is. I read a newsletter that I've, you know, selfishly, I like to tell people, when you write, when you put things on paper, you really grasp them that much better. And for me, it's been that. I try to take the reader from zero to one, and it doesn't have to be this broad, crazy topic. It's how do you do something better in your real estate operation or if you're part of the real estate community? And so that's kind of the general thing.

56:45And does that involve doing lessons from famous investors? Yes. Does it include how to make sure that you're going out to market with the right rent on your apartment unit? Yep. Does it include my tech stack? Every part of my real estate operation that I'm using? Yes. All things that I pretty much try to look back at myself four or five years ago and say, would this have been valuable? I look at my Google search history. If I can go back, I don't think I'd go back then, but there's just any of these types of things. That's what I try to provide. Yeah. And how often does it come out? Try to do weekly, but it just hasn't always been that way.

57:26Yeah. I shared with you earlier that we do a daily newsletter called We Study Markets, and it's hard to come up with and produce a bunch of content on a weekly or daily basis. Yeah. And you want it to be good. You want it to really provide tremendous value. And some days I don't read it and think that's tremendously valuable. And maybe I should just take my own lesson, just hit send. And somebody probably could take value from it. I listened to an interesting podcast yesterday with a guy named Kevin Kelly, who was the founder of Wired magazine and fascinating guy, kind of a futurist technology kind of guy.

58:01But he was talking about just how everybody should write. And for himself, he doesn't really know what he thinks until he starts writing. And I think the practice of writing is something that anyone at whatever level could get benefit from for sure. I wholeheartedly agree. I think writing is a tremendous resource to anybody to conceptualize your thoughts and better understand a concept. let's jump into a fire round here real quick we're uh we're kind of at the hour mark and i wanted to i know that you're a big reader researcher that kind of thing so what have you read recently that you think i should read endurance shackleton's incredible voyage this is a book about a group of english explorers that went to the arctic and experienced let's call it a tough voyage and if you're looking for perspective, if you want to feel a little more resilient in your life, this is the book for you.

59:02I'll check it out. This is totally unrelated and this might get edited out, but I met a guy in Asheville, North Carolina who did, you've heard of the Iditarod, right? The dog sled race, which is a thousand mile race. Well, a week before the Iditarod, there's a week before, a week after there's a human powered Iditarod race. So it's a thousand miles by yourself. And I met this guy in Nashville. He was working at a running store and his boss came up. He's like, has this guy told you who he is? Like, Oh, no, we're just kind of talking. And he ended up winning this race. Like he won the Iditarod foot race and he wrote a book about it.

59:40He's like a motivational speaker now and went through a bunch of personal hardships in his own life and got into running and just a really interesting story. And I love those. I'll definitely check out Endurance and give it a good read. I've heard it mentioned a couple times, so it's time to probably read it. It is the best book to gain a little bit of perspective and be just a more resilient person because you read what these people went through and you say, holy smokes, I might not have it that bad. Good perspective. Next one, where have you traveled to? You've done a bunch of traveling. I know that.

1:00:15Where have you traveled to that I should travel to? San Sebastian, Spain. It's where I studied abroad that junior year. It is, if you enjoy great food, if you enjoy water sports, maybe surfing and you like good wine, this is the best place in the world. I'm not biased, but... Is it in the Rioja region of Spain? It's in the País Vasco, which is Rioja. Yes. Okay. I will check that out. I've been to Spain, like Madrid and the airport, but that's about it. I've not kind of gone out and ventured around. You got to go off. And then my special edition here, Rio de Janeiro. Great city. Beautiful, beautiful city.

1:00:54Definitely on my list. Best purchase under$250. I think this was one of your questions. It was, and I'll do you one better. How about under$100? It is a Josephine number two universal wine glass. I really enjoy wine and drinking out of this wine glass, you know it's going to sound odd to many people who just drink to drink but it is really an experience every time i have a glass of wine and it is delicate it's fragile but it is it is an experience so josephine number two wine glass yes i heard that right okay yep i'll check it out i'll check it out my parents are both big wine drinkers i'll i'll have to get a great gift yeah if you're looking for a gift for somebody that likes wine or something two of these oh primo Well, last one here.

1:01:41What's your best real estate book that you would recommend? I would say Steve Schwarzman, What It Takes. I really found tremendous inspiration from reading how he started Blackstone. And he was in an enviable position at his firm. He had the world. He could have sat back and extremely successful. He said, I want more. And he did. And he built something more. Very cool. that's one I haven't read either but I've read your thread on it which was great often I got a lot of reading to do endurance and then what it takes so Duke thanks a lot this has been a lot of fun I've enjoyed talking with you getting to know you a little bit better do you have any kind of words of wisdom or like a takeaway one big takeaway you'd want for our listeners who've been listening today yeah I think two things and Patrick this was quite enjoyable I'm appreciative of the invite and I hope I've provided a little bit of value.

1:02:35Two things here. In life, effort requires no talent. You don't need to be smart to show up every day and make something. In fact, in real estate, the hungriest people often outperform the sharpest. So that's one. And then two on that is hungry dogs run faster. I mean, if you truly want it, go make it happen. No excuses, just do it. Love it. So Duke, a lot of fun here. Definitely have enjoyed it. Definitely you've provided some value. I encourage our listeners to check out your threads. Ton of knowledge there to pick up. What's the best way aside from Twitter or on Twitter? What's your handle on Twitter and what's a good way for maybe another way for people to reach out to you?

1:03:19Yeah, at the Duke of Dirt on Twitter. That's really the best place. Direct messages are open. I enjoy hearing from people. I love going back and forth. And then there's the newsletter on the profile of Twitter. That's probably the easiest way to get to it. Thank you so much for your time. This has been a lot of fun. Thanks, Patrick. Okay, folks, that's all I had for today's episode. I hope you enjoyed the show and I'll see you back here real soon. Thank you for listening to TIP. Make sure to subscribe to We Study Billionaires by the Investors Podcast Network. Every Wednesday, we teach you about Bitcoin and every Saturday, we study billionaires and the financial markets.

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