REI192: Building an Empire w/ Nick Huber

21:21And then you go a little bit more niche and you find content and you produce content that interests a smaller portion, but more valuable portion of the population. These are the business owners, these are the investors, whatever. Then you go even further down and you have a podcast where people can get on and listen to the way that you think about life and listen to your voice and get to know you in a more intimate way. Then at the very bottom for me is my email newsletter, where every week, I spend about two or three hours writing 1 ,000, 2 ,000, 3 ,000 words on management, hiring, real estate, hiring, business, entrepreneurship, wealth.

21:49And that's where people really get to know me and how I think about business and life. So social media for me is a big funnel. And at the top of it is like, okay, yeah, we have some goofs and engagement and some funny posts because I have a weird sense of humor and I can't help myself but pick on people who get really angry about nothing on the internet. I can't imagine being a grown human sitting in an office or a room or a house or outside or doing whatever they want to be doing at that moment, and they get upset about what somebody else posts on Twitter, that's not a direct insult to them. I cannot wrap my head around that.

22:19So I just poke it. I can't help but poke it. But yeah, you got to cast a wide net. And a lot of my content is just about living a better life because I'm pretty passionate about living a balanced, better life. Well, I also feel like you use it too as a way to challenge your own thinking, to have really smart people. You talked about that you have strong opinions loosely held, you'll put them out there and then you're open to changing your mind. So I wanted to hear about that a little bit. Have you had any, whether it's business or real estate or self-storage, any strong opinion that you've had that you've put things out there and somebody's changed your mind about?

22:53I think just a bigger picture. I think a lot of people do what I do and they tweet about business, entrepreneurship, whatever, and they get more entrenched in their own opinions because people start to battle them. They hunker down, they put their heels deep down and they fight back and then they become a little bit more radical. You see it all over the place. You see it in politicians, you see it in celebrities, you see it all over the place of people getting more entrenched in their opinions when they tweet about it or they talk about it or they preach it or they make content around it or whatever it might be.

23:22I think I've become oddly a little bit more balanced. I've understood more points of view because I grew up in Southern Indiana, a very conservative Christian family. I had never interacted with Jewish people. I didn't have an African-American until I went to college. I mean, this is who I was around and surrounded by and shaped growing up. Went to college and I went to a very liberal school in upstate New York, an Ivy League school. And that changed, that was radically different than where I grew up. And then as I go about and form my opinions in entrepreneurship, wealth, whether or not it's for everybody is something that's really shifted.

23:56And one notable, very serious way that I've changed my mind on is, you talked to me five years ago when I first started creating content, I thought entrepreneurship was for everybody. I thought if you weren't an entrepreneur and you weren't starting a business, you were lazy, you weren't driven, you didn't want to take any risk, and you were afraid. That is not true. Most people are not cut out for the chaos. Most people don't enjoy it. And most people don't need to have super high powered, crazy career to live a fun, enjoyable life. The majority of the population, over half of us, go to work every single day, do the bare minimum to get paid, and then find joy in other areas of life.

24:32We come home and we have hobbies, we have family, we have friends, we have other things that excite us. So I'm a little bit different in that way. And just understanding that not everybody's like me has been pretty eyeopening. I wanted to shift gears a little bit. You mentioned my co-host, Robert. You guys did an episode a while back, but he recently had a guest on. His name is Ken Rusk. He's actually an Ohio guy up in Toledo. And he wrote a book called Blue Collar Cash. A lot of ideas and principles are similar to your sweaty startup ideas. I've got a son who's, he's a senior, he's going into a senior year.

25:02He's not a college guy. Like he's, it's not going to be his route. And I'm trying to encourage him to go more into the trades. So I wanted to get your thoughts about, I know you've got what, two boys and a young daughter, right? I wanted to hear a little bit about just how you think about how you're going to advise them in terms of education and going to college versus like, you know, doing the sweaty startup blue collar cash kind of route? I might be speaking out of two sides of my face here, because I am going to encourage my kids to go to college. I'm going to be, if things go well, I'm going to have a high net worth.

25:33I'm going to have a lot of resources. I'm going to have a lot of connections. And I don't think that my kids necessarily need to start out working with their hands. I think that they can skip that just because they'll be privileged enough to have my mentorship and my background. That said, that's not the case that most people are in. Most people are not in that situation. And way too many kids are spending 60 grand a year on liberal arts degrees when they could either not go to college and start working the same jobs that they're going to have access to with their liberal arts degree, or they could go work for small businesses in the service sector and do really well for themselves.

26:04And when it comes to entrepreneurship, that's where I have a pretty strong opinion of, hey, there's two ways to go about entrepreneurship. There's what most people think that entrepreneurship is, where it's Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Shark Tank, new invention, new idea, big idea, raise money. If you walk by anybody on the street and say, hey, what's entrepreneurship to you? That's what they'll talk about. When in reality, the wealthy people in my town, the rich people that I know, the people who have done really well for themselves, the people who have bought back their time, they have more freedom.

26:31You ask them what they do, and it's normal, existing, old fashioned businesses where, hey, there's a problem out there. Something needs clean, something needs cut, something needs maintained, something needs built, somebody needs help with something, we're just going to go do it. We don't need to be spectacular business. We don't need to have a moat. We don't need to have a new idea. We don't need to raise venture capital. There's customers here. There's businesses here. All we got to do is get a little slice of the pie. So when I hear entrepreneurs say, hey, go follow your passion, chase big dreams, big goals.

27:02It makes me sad because the best way to have a smart person end up with a job is tell them to go chase what they're passionate about because they're going to chase things that other people are also passionate about. There's going to be a ton of competition. And the world is a sick place and it doesn't care. The world does not care about you and what you're passionate about, period. The world could care less. The economy could care less what you love doing. Okay. It exists. People are paying money all day, every day for things that they need around their houses and their lives and their worlds.

27:32You can decide that, hey, I'm going to find a way to go get some of that, or I'm going to do what I'm passionate about. My advice every single time is to do whatever can set you up to then later in life, do what you're passionate about. Totally makes sense. I wanted to shift gears a little bit, real estate show here. I wanted to talk a little bit about just your market views, what you see going on in, whether it's self-storage, commercial real estate. Have you done any acquisitions lately? I think I listened to a podcast you did with Chris Powers maybe three or four months ago about things just weren't penciling.

28:02So I just wanted to hear a little bit more about what you're seeing right now and what you're looking towards unfolding in the next three to six, nine months? Yeah. Another one of my side businesses is a property and casualty insurance business. And we're seeing just another industry where you look at what's piling up against real estate right now, the list against real estate is getting longer and longer and longer. It's interest rates going way up, insurance costs going way up, property taxes going way up. And finally, we're seeing a world where rent growth and inflow tenants is not just a given.

28:37It's not just something that has happened from the post-COVID stimulus. So real estate for us in the self-storage business is not fun right now. You could hear different things from other people. I'm not having fun in real estate. It's not fun at all. We are not making big chunks of money. We're not transacting. We're not selling. We're not refinancing. We're not putting hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in our pocket like we were in 2021, 2022. 2021, we bought$50 million worth of storage. 2021, 50 million. 2022, 38 million. So far in 2023, we're halfway through the year and we bought one deal for$1.2 million.

29:10I have 45 people on my payroll. We're spending more money on deal flow than we've ever spent. We're underwriting probably 20 deals a week, looking at hundreds of deals a week and seller expectations. They want too much money for interest rates being 7.5%. Well, how do you see things unfolding then? What's going to happen with all this? I mean, there's going to be some kind of reckoning. I just kind of want to hear how you're preparing for it. Yeah. We now have a portfolio. We now have something to lose. And I have to do my job, which is protect my investor capital and my own capital. So I spend a lot of time thinking about the downside and managing risk.

29:42And that's another thing. If you're listening to this show and you haven't made it yet, you got to be careful who you're getting advice from. If you're getting advice from a bunch of people who are already wealthy and already rich, they're going to have a totally different mindset than you are trying to make it. If I were brand new with nothing to lose, I would be risk on right now. I'd be going around looking for opportunities. Instead, I have a big portfolio I'm protecting. I'm thinking about the downside. I'm thinking about, hey, how can I get through the next couple of years, no matter what happens, and make sure I don't lose any buildings?

30:06It's a really important part of all of this. So if I was a gambling man, I'd say it's a 50-50 shot, right? It's a 50 % chance that total chaos hit and there's blood in the streets. There's a 50 % chance that rates start to drop and And this goes down as just another mild recession. So I'm not smart enough to predict what could potentially happen. But I know that inside of my company, we're worried and we're protecting against the downside, which is loans that are maturing and cash crunch from investors and a debt crunch from bankers and protecting from that trifecta of horrific situations for real estate investors.

30:40When the banks slow down and they're not lending as much money, and when the investors slow down, they're not giving you as much money, and the tenants slow down, they're not moving into your properties as fast as they were, those three things can create a snowball of destruction. You've been putting out a lot of content, like PDFs, I think, to get emails, to get people signed up for the newsletter, a lot of great content. One of them was what real estate asset class you would be interested in if you weren't into self-storage. So I wanted to hear a little bit about that. I've actually, I've gotten some of those PDFs, which I really appreciate.

31:09One of them on the business, the 20 steps or the 20 tools that you use for business, super useful. Talk to us a little bit though about asset classes though, that if you were just starting off, we've got a lot of beginning intermediate investors, what would pique your interest right now? What asset classes would you focus on? So this is another thing that if you only listen to people who have built massive wealth and have big portfolios, they're going to feel a lot differently about real estate than you are as somebody who's just starting out. My advice would be to go towards an asset class that has more operational moving parts, something that's really harder to scale.

31:42Start with something that's hard to scale instead of going after, okay, multifamily, 300 plus unit properties where yes, you can buy$500 million with a multifamily in one year. Yes, there's a very scalable model to do that. There's no private equity firms going around buying$500 million worth of RV parks or daycares or single tenant industrial where you got to do a lot of work to run these as small businesses. So I love it. I love it. There's a lot of moving parts. Imagine an RV park. You can cost seg the hell out of it. It's super, super tax efficient to buy an RV park because of all those ground improvements.

32:15And there's a lot of moving parts. You got to move in RVs. You got to keep the place clean. You got to keep the utilities maintained. People hit stuff. People have problems at these properties. All that spells opportunity for me if I'm a beginning real estate investor, because I want headache. I want it to be non-scalable. Because when it's not scalable, I'm not competing against big money. I'm not competing against nationwide companies. I'm not competing against everybody. I'm competing against one region. And if I can buy a small small business that's disguised as real estate, that's a win for me.

32:44Self-storage checks that box. A self-storage facility, people think of it as a real estate investment, and yes, it is, but it's a small business inside of it, coupled with it. Same applies to many other asset classes that I love. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. Hey, it's Sean O'Malley, just popping in with a quick message. If you like this podcast, well, I've got great news for you. We've got a handful of other shows for you to explore, from learning about Bitcoin to embracing a richer, wiser, happier lifestyle. Just go into your podcast app and type in We Study Billionaires to find our collection of shows.

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35:44You can get started by creating an account for free. Who knows, maybe TIP Finance will help you find your next 100-to-1 investment. Between the screener and Legend Investment portfolios to reference, I've gotten a ton of ideas from TIP Finance. What are you waiting for? Take the next step in your investment journey today with the right tools at your fingertips. Grab your device and type into your browser, theinvestorspodcast.com slash TIP-finance to get started. That's theinvestorspodcast.com slash TIP-finance. All right, back to the show. So things are slow right now. Real estate is not fun for a lot of people.

36:24Is that why you've been focused on scaling these other businesses and getting those off the ground? I wanted to hear an average day for you right now. How are you spending your time? Is it on the businesses that you're... You're throwing a lot at the wall right now. And I'm sure a lot of them are going to stick and do really well. Talk to us about just how you are spending your time. Because I read something like you work in what, 30 or 35 hours a week, but yet it seems like... And you do, not it doesn't seem like. You've got a lot going on. So talk to us about just how you spend your time. Yeah.

36:55I have a team above all my companies, a team that's helping me run my companies, an operator, head of marketing, content person. We have two video editors. We have an HR person. So the company above the companies is growing. I can flip a switch and get my individual operators at these companies what they need to run these companies. But no, that said, it's still stressful. Like there's nothing more stressful than a three month old company. From month three to month 12, it is not fun no matter how good of a business you're in because you are hiring, you are building processes. The first three months is fun.

37:27It's exciting. The website's coming. The first customers are coming. Everybody's excited. Month three, you're like, wow, I've been working hard for three months and the problems are just starting. So it's a lot to get all these companies off the ground. But I have my model is that I partner with operators. Like I partner with people who are already really good at what we're trying to do and what we're trying to offer. And they can actually help and they know how to run teams and build teams and delegate. So it's not like I am interviewing candidates at each individual company. I am working closely with my operator and they're growing the businesses.

37:55So I spend probably half my time, 15 hours a week on content, whether it's Twitter, podcast appearances like this, my newsletter, and the other 15 hours a week are on working with my individual operators and giving them the tools they need to build and grow these companies. Robert Leonard I wanted to jump to the newsletter. You mentioned that. I think you've grown from what, like 40 ,000 subscribers to like over 100 at this point in the past three months. I want to hear about that growth. I want to hear about your producing and writing your own content, correct? I think you're not farming it out to anybody.

38:27It's your voice. It's your ideas. I think you view it almost like a diary. So can you talk a little bit about how you think about the newsletter and its growth? Yeah. I think about the newsletter as a list that I own, one of the only lists that I own. I don't own my Twitter account. I could get deplatformed at any time. I'm just a cog in Elon's Twitter machine. So I know that if I rely on Twitter to be a long-term business development tool, then it's sort of risky. So I focused on building an email newsletter list of people who want to get a look in my mind and I can reach out and touch their inbox every Monday or every Monday and Thursday if I want, or go a whole month without doing it if I want.

39:04I mean, that's the big tool as grow these companies and as I grow my personal brand and reach is that email newsletter. So I write it. I don't delegate the writing. I cross all the content. It's kind of a flywheel, meaning I write my newsletter and from that newsletter comes several tweets. From those tweets comes several small videos. From all those thoughts comes the things that I can say on podcast interviews like this. So it's all a flywheel, but I don't delegate the newsletter writing. I think it's really tough to build trust and build an audience if you're going to farm out the writing piece.

39:35I think you follow Justin Welsh. He's got a really great model for content creation and then how to... I forget what he calls it, but it's kind of brilliant. He's the solopreneur guy. I believe you actually reposted one of his... I'm a good friend with Justin. Yeah. He's a great guy. Yeah. Can you talk about that a little bit? Do you remember what he calls that? Because he'll create a ton of different Twitter posts and threads just from a single newsletter that he puts out. Yeah. So Justin, he's elected to have a small team. And I think that's amazing. Solopreneurship can mean a number of different things.

40:08I think he'll end up with some employees, especially in the Philippines and Colombia, to delegate some small tasks. But he sells coaching and courses. He writes his newsletter and he is a very good copywriter. He can write very well on Twitter and LinkedIn. And he's grown. I mean, he's got, I think, 800 or a million followers across Twitter and LinkedIn alone. And he's grown a great business. I mean, look, this is why business is so amazing and so exciting to me because there can be two people with two different goals. His goal, make great money and with a small team. My goal is to build an amazing, a big team, make even more money, hopefully if things go well.

40:43But I love interacting with the people and managing the people and enabling and empowering the people. You can still do really well in business without that goal. And that's why it's so fun. There's nuance here. There's decisions that you make every single day as an entrepreneur, and there's no right decision. There's no playbook on how to make the decision, and there's no right one. You can make a different decision and still win each way. Kind of making it up as we all go along in some ways too, trying to figure out what works. It's an exciting time for sure. I wanted to hear a little bit about your why.

41:12I forget what your cashflow is right now per month. It's like a ton. You've magnified it quite a bit here. What's your long range goal? What are you trying to push towards? and is there an end game? There was an investor, Nick Sleep is the guy's name, and he ran a company called Nomad Partnership, Investment Partnership. He retired at 45. He had an X number. And once he hit that, he was going to be done. And he did it. I think that's really hard for people to do because the number keeps moving. I wanted to hear a little bit about your why and what the end game is for you. I'll let you know when I figure that out.

41:46Now, it's really easy for me to say, like, I'm going to tone it back when I get to X or when I get this number in my bank account, I'm done. But an amazing thing happens is that when you make more money, when you start more businesses, when you get a bigger reach, when your distribution grows, more opportunities come your way. The level of opportunities grows. So I say no almost all the time now. People approach me with potential partnerships, investments, ideas, businesses to buy, all these different things that I could do to start, spend my time in different areas. The answer is almost always no.

42:18because I have to be protective of my time and what I'm going to go after. But look, I love this game. I love it. I'm going to try to prove everybody wrong that I can do this. I can build an empire without working 80 hours a week. And it's almost like me preaching to myself. I write this content all day. I write this newsletter. I talk about delegation, and I am really preaching to myself. People think like, oh, Nick is such a great teacher. I'm just reminding myself of what I should be doing. I'm not perfect by any means, but I'm also a pretty balanced person. I love playing golf. I love fly fishing.

42:48I love travel. I love hanging out with my kids. I love hanging out with my wife. I like all the different things that come with it. So I really think there's three different levels of wealth. The first level is that you can actually pay your bills without stress. You can survive. You can feed your kids and you can survive. The second level is that you can go in a restaurant and not worry about the price of any of the dishes and you can order what you want to order. And the third level is that you can just travel anywhere you want to go without worrying about the cost of the travel in the hotel when you get there.

43:15Beyond that, there is no difference to 250 grand a month of cashflow or$250 million a month of cashflow. The boat's bigger, the plane's bigger, the house is bigger. That's it. That's really it. Yes, I would like to get an airplane. And then it's about building awesome memories with great people. And part of that is business. I think an amazing thing about entrepreneurship and business is that I can create millionaires. I can turn other people into millionaires. That's a really fun thing. And I'm going to do that to a lot of people, which is great. I mean, my long-term goal is to, yes, I have a certain amount of cash flow per month.

43:48Right now it's$250 ,000 a month. I want to get that to a million dollars a month. I want to start buying businesses. But right now I'm starting these companies and I'm surrounding myself with operators, people who are operating these companies. I'm getting to know them. I'm seeing how they think. I'm seeing where their strengths are, where their weaknesses are. And I'm getting familiar with them and comfortable with them. We're growing these companies. Several of them will be shut down and not work. Several of them will be big companies and great companies. I don't know which ones. That in itself is fun.

44:13The fact that I'm making decisions now and I don't know the outcome, that makes it so fun. The other half of it is when I get to know these people and my reach has grown and these businesses have grown and I have a Rolodex of amazing operators that are on my team. And look, right now, all I'm doing is surrounding myself with great people. That's it. I spend my time each week collecting talent and I'm getting them in my ecosystem and I'm working with them and I'm getting to know them. And then five years from now when the cash flow is here and we have the bankroll and we have an even bigger network, it's okay.

44:41Instead of go start an agency, we're going to buy a$10 million company. And we're just going to do it. I'm going to put my money in and I already have the operations team that we're going to turn this business around with. That stuff seems really fun to me. I look at business as a puzzle. It's a challenge. It's exciting. It's stressful. It gets me uncomfortable. It makes me grow as a person. I think I'll always want to do it. I'll never, hey, I'm going to check out and go to the beach. It's of course, I'm going to work less. Of course, I'm going to have leverage other people to do more and more of the work, but entrepreneurship is just fun.

45:10It's a game and I love playing it. So I think I'll do it for a really long time. Some of what you're saying reminds me, I watched the Arnold documentary on Netflix. I don't know if you saw that. It's a three-part series and first starts off with his bodybuilding career, then acting career, and then political career. And along the way, he was basically, when people told him no, it just gave him all the more impetus to prove people wrong. So in some ways, it's like you want to, I don't know, I kind of like what you're saying. I was really inspired by the documentary. Some of what you're saying is kind of rings true to what he's saying in terms of, tell me I can't do it and I'll show you that I can in some ways.

45:45There's a lot of people that are telling me that I can't grow a real estate empire at the same time as build companies at the same time as be a good husband and be a good dad and be fit. And I'm going to try my best to do it all just to prove them wrong, maybe. You got a couple minutes here for a quick fire round? Yeah. All right. Your main superpower, what is it? I'm charismatic. I can get people to follow along in my mission. Favorite real estate conference? I'll reconvene with Moses Kagan out in Los Angeles. Who's the smartest guy you know that's made the biggest impact on your life? Chris Powers.

46:20He's the real estate guy in Dallas, Fort Worth. He's the one who taught me to build my real estate private equity company the right way. He's also a flawed human like me that is working every single day to get better. He's humble. He's just a great mentor of mine. Yeah. He did a podcast. It's been a month or two ago with Brent Bishore. Yep. Brent's amazing too. It was a fantastic podcast where Chris really opened up about his own journey in a way that I thought was very authentic and real and really touched me. There's a mentor of Chris's that made a huge impact that I had on the show named John Marsh, who I'm not sure if you're familiar with, but he is really another incredible guy that I think Chris actually kind of looks up to and gets a lot of advice from.

47:02So really good stuff. Last one here real quick. Most impactful purchase under 250 bucks. Under 250 bucks. I got some insoles for my feet recently. They're called PowerStep and my foot pain went away and that's been an amazing thing. But I also, once a week, I have a personal trainer come to my house and work with my wife. That's a great investment. I have a tonal on my wall that is, okay, it costs 3 ,500 bucks, but it's 50 bucks a month. And I love it to get 15 minute workouts in that get me sore. And I only have to do it twice a week to feel strong. A nanny for my family has been the best investment that we have ever made.

47:36We weren't sure if we would use all the hours. We weren't sure about the stress, what our family would think. It's been incredible to have that. And I think ultimate life hack is a private plane sitting 15 minutes from your house where you can get anywhere in a time machine, but I'm not there yet. Nick, I really appreciate your time. I know you got to run here. For the people that want to find out more about you, I know you're on Twitter, but any other ways that people can get in touch with you and learn about what you're up to? Yeah. Go to sweatystartup.com and sign up for my newsletter. Get a look into my brain every week.

48:02And if you buy real estate and you want to look at my cost seg firm, recostseg.com or my property and casualty insurance company, it's titanrisk.com. We have some amazingly hardworking brokers over there at Titan Risk and Bolt Storage paid 380 grand a year in insurance for our 63 properties. We found a new carrier and got that down to$280 ,000. So I'm pretty excited about the flywheel of me being a customer of these companies is pretty fun too when it kind of saves you money or makes your business better to be a customer. Yeah, no doubt. I'll put links to all the businesses, RE Costs, and all the different things, Titan and some of the web, what is it, Web Run Labs and all that stuff.

48:41I'll put in the show notes for sure. Patrick, thanks for having me. I'm a huge fan of what you do. The audience that you all are building is huge too. So you're going to be able to have a lot of fun and impact a lot of people. So I'm excited to do more of these over the years. Yeah, cool. Thanks, Nick. I appreciate it. Have a great day. Thanks, Patrick. Bye. Okay, folks, that's all I had for today's episode. I hope you enjoyed the show and I'll see you back here real soon. Thank you for listening to TIP. Make sure to subscribe to We Study Billionaires by the Investors Podcast Network. Every Wednesday, we teach you about Bitcoin and every Saturday, we study billionaires and the financial markets.

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