TIP750: Generating Alpha, Digital Payments, & AI w/ Deiya Pernas

24:50Even in a recession, we see M2 growth fall off. There's a whole lot central banks have learned to do since 2008, stimulate to print, and that M2 growth is going to just pick back up. But if it doesn't, just like they did during COVID, they'll just start handing people money. So you can be pretty convicted over, just from the historical record, that M2 growth is going to continue. So if you have a company that has a scrape on M2 growth, that's obviously very attractive given their take rates can remain stable. And if you find the right kind of payment company, like if you caught Stripe early, for instance, or adding early or something like that, it can be enormously profitable.

25:27There's a few payment companies we like, but that's really the broad strokes of it is that, look, there's going to be more and more money that's out there. And if there's a company's lever to just a little bit of that, it can be enormously beneficial, especially since that incremental investment when it comes to a payment company, the cost needed to support an extra unit of revenue growth is very, very, very low. So it scales wonderfully and the tailwinds are amazing. So it's one of the reasons why we like payment companies. Obviously, there's a lot of them. Some of them are decent, most of them are not, but that's a whole kind of gist about why we find payments interesting.

26:05Robert Leonard The other aspect of payments that has made it a bit difficult for me to get comfortable with some of these payment players was the rise of stable coins. So I was just looking at a couple of stable coins this morning, and it just seems like the market cap of some of these is just only exponentially growing. So for those not familiar, stable coins, a cryptocurrency that's pegged to a reserve asset such as the US dollar, and it allows people to transfer these tokens, we can call them peer-to-peer, without necessarily needing a third party. And part of the issue with stablecoins, I think, though, is that if you're in a developed country, you probably don't want the stablecoin.

26:41You want dollars or your local currency or whatnot. I'd be curious to hear what you're seeing on the stablecoin front. Yeah, I think stablecoins right now are really the domain of the crypto world. And if you look at the usage, it's overwhelmingly like people were buying crypto, and it just facilitates it a lot of e-sign exchanges. Even being able to send and being able to hold your money in stablecoin and then trading for crypto and then going back in a stablecoin and so on. And the US government, I think, through the Genius Act is going a long way to regulating those reserves to give investors confidence in something like a circle that those reserves are intact.

27:19And obviously that benefits the US government because it creates a sustained demand for treasuries, which those reserves are placed in. So it's in the interest of the government to provide this type of regulatory framework. But if you look at the data, there's limited use of stable coins in the real economy. It really hasn't happened at all yet. There's some situations in some frontier markets where just the banking system is totally ruptured and people are using stable coins to pay each other. There's a few countries in Africa like that. But other than that, there really hasn't been any penetration at all.

27:51I'm not saying there's not going to be. But the market seems to think that remittances are going to be the first to be affected, remittances being people sending money to others, typically cross. And when I say remittances, I'm talking about cross-border remittances because they tend to be more expensive. But that hasn't happened at all yet. And I personally think that you're going to see stablecoins as an alternative payment method first before you see remittances, primarily because the cost of remittances have come down significantly. And as long as people are continuing to use fiat in their local economy, it's hard for me to suspect, given the cost of remittances, that people are going to start using other methods to send money to friends and family or whatnot.

28:34So until their friends and family start using maybe stable points to pay for things in their local economy, we believe that traditional remittance providers are still going to be completely relevant, just as they were in the past. And those are the services that can be used to transfer money. So we don't think the remittances will be the first to be affected. We think just payment methods will, and it'll start to show up as an alternative payment method. Much like you can go in and kind of use Venmo to pay for something at your Walmart or your CVS or something like that. You're going to see that, oh, okay, maybe I can use my stable credit to pay for something.

29:08And then I think that's where it'll start. And once that penetration starts to happen, And then we can start to talk about maybe how it's going to impact remittances. But I think we're a very, very long way off. And if you look at just how sticky payment methods tend to be, like historically, payment methods, even if they're not exactly optimal, tend to stay intact for a very, very long time. So it tends to require quite a sense of urgency for people to switch to a new payment method. So I just don't see that changing anytime soon when it comes to payments or remittances. I think it's going to stay in the crypto space for a considerable amount of time.

29:45Since you mentioned remittances, let's dive into Remitly, which is a share gainer in the remittances space. So remittances is just a, whether people might not know this, but it's a massive market. So the World Bank estimates that just over$800 billion in remittances are sent per year. And this brings us to discuss Remitly. I've been learning about this company through some of your write-ups. And then my co-hosts, Sean O'Malley and Daniel Monka also did an episode on this company on the Intrinsic Value Podcast for those interested in learning more. How about we start with what makes Remitly well-positioned to capitalize on this big growing market?

30:26Yeah. So I think regarding tailwinds and trends and why remittances continue to increase and the number's closer to a trillion now, why the number continues to increase. If you look at just demographics. I know the political climate is quite charged. There's been a rise in nationalism. And as far as immigration, it tends to be a topic on the top of every politician's list and trying to, quote unquote, limit immigration. But if you look at median ages for a lot of the developed economy, Japan, Italy, Germany, I mean, Germany, the median age is 46. Italy is closer to 48, 49. And even the US is 39.

31:08It's not exactly young economies. And the fertility rate other than the US and most of the economies that I mentioned are significantly below the replacement rate. So once you have that dynamic, the only way to stop a population decline is through immigration. There is no other way. So unless you're saying that developed economies are going to let their kind of hold demographics go upside down and have all sorts of issues supporting retirees, immigration is going to continue in mass. And that's why you're seeing global remittances continue to grow by 5%, 6 % every year. And it's now outstripped foreign direct investment when it comes to emerging markets.

31:48So that is a megatrend that is going to continue to persist. And it's something that we really like, obviously, when looking at businesses that operate within that ecosystem. And Remitly has the best-in-class digital solution. And their ability, I think, to compete with legacy players and their focus purely on the remittance space, I think it just gives them an edge. When you look at the other players involved in the space that are pure remittance providers, like MoneyGram, Western Union, Aria, and even some of the regional players, and on end there's Wise, kind of is in that space a little bit, but not exactly.

32:24Their product is solely optimized for remittances, and it's digitally native compared to a lot of the legacy competition that is still sending cash. And that cash is starting to... That's another trend where a lot of their cross-quarter remittances being sent are cash, cash to cash. So you still have over 100 billion or so that Western Union MoneyGram sends that's in cash, and that cash is going digital. And Remitly is going to be another beneficiary there. So there's a couple trends that we really, really like. They have the best digital solution. It's totally optimized towards migrants. They're doing a lot to build mindshare with migrants.

33:03Their marketing engine is really second to none. We don't have many holds in our portfolio that we think are generational holds. And we would hate to say we were ever wedded to a name, but if there's any name in our portfolio that we think we're going to be holding for a very, very long time, it's Remitly. I just think the economic surrogate will work really, really well. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that I think is really interesting with a name like this. Remitly's market share looks to be in the low single digits. And as you sort of alluded to earlier, payment solutions tend to be pretty sticky.

33:36And I think one of the reasons for that is just trust, right? Once customers get acquainted with a way to send payment. They tend to stick with something that they trust, especially as something as important as remittances. The CEO of Remittly has highlighted this, and I think he understands it. So say if someone's making$20 ,000,$30 ,000 in the US and they're sending$200 to another country, let's say India, for example, they obviously want to work with a brand that you trust, even if you have to pay maybe a little bit more in fees. That trust is really important because that$200 payment might be what's needed to put food on the table for your family, for example.

34:16Yes. I think just when it comes to financial services in general, banks, if you agree that banks, it's very important for banks to build trust, then why can't a remittance provider? I mean, it's very much the same. Somebody walks into their bank, they want to feel secure, their money is safe. And it's the same exact thing with a remittance provider. They want to have that trust. And the brand is extraordinarily important. So I think there's a lot of people who will try to say, well, remittance providers is kind of a commodity or a race to the bottom. But any sort of finance company that's B2C, that trust element is going to be huge.

34:52People want to feel secure about their money. So if that brand, if that mindshare with that customer, if those emotions are of that of trust and security, and we're going to do whatever we can bend over backwards customer service-wise to make sure that your money gets from point A to point B. Yeah, I think that goes a long way. I think it's very interesting when there is a business that is more complex than it actually is, and people think that it's a commoditizable business, and you know that it's not. I think that's a source of area perception. And I brought up the example of In-N-Out in California, which is a burger chain.

35:30And from my perspective, and obviously there's some subjectivity to this, but I know there's a lot of Californians that agree with me. There is almost no other burger chain that has been able to produce a quality burger for as long as In-N-Out has, just bar none. I mean, there's a couple that came up, I think, had their Smashburger or even Shake Shack, but the qualities, it's not been consistent over time. So here's something that should be the easiest business in the world. It's like, oh, you're producing a burger, but clearly it's a lot more complicated than just a cursory glance would tell you.

36:01And I don't know anything about the burger business, but I know that it has to be complicated because there hasn't been a competitor to do it as well as they are, not even close. So to me, it's similar with remittance providers where it seems like it'd be easy, but when you peel back the curtain a little bit, you realize just how complex certain quarters can be, the makeup of certain receivers. You obviously have to have a cash distribution network. You have to maybe disperse money to wallets or maybe have some sort of way to deliver money through just mobile payment or through even on demand or in the Philippines or something.

36:39You can send money and a courier will go to somebody's house and deliver the money. So being able to optimize for just the different ways people receive money in these different corridors is quite challenging. Obviously, there's the regulatory, the intermediaries you have to have, the licenses and so on. And then there's fraud prevention and all sorts of KYC stuff that needs to be correct and totally above board at all times. So once you start thinking about all complexity, it makes you realize that Vermintly's focus is very, very special. I think another example that really spells out just how complex it is, is that PayPal in 2015 or 2016 ended up buying Zoom XOM for about a billion dollars.

37:21And it was part of their foray into remittances. And it was like, okay, Zoom's growing with leaps and bounds, and it's going to help us to plan other remittance providers in the space. And what happens after they acquired Zoom is a couple of years later, they totally stopped mentioning it. Their growth has been anemic. It's a total nothing burger. They're trying to sell it that they can't. So clearly, if this business is that easy, Zoom would not have been so disastrous of an acquisition for PayPal. But there's something more there, obviously. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors.

38:21and captures the conversation and hands me back a clean, searchable recap. And so the key points, the follow-ups, the things I usually want to act on, it has all of that. And that allows me to stay present in the room instead of scribbling notes that I won't be able to read back later. And I notoriously have very bad handwriting. And so it's changed how I prep and how I follow up with investors. It's also built for people who take conversations seriously. Enterprise-grade security. So if you're recording calls with clients or industry contacts, that's covered too. So if you live in meetings, calls, and interviews, well, give it a look.

38:55Go to plod.ai slash WSB and use code WSB for 10 % off. That's plod.ai slash WSB, code WSB. And always get consent before you record a conversation. They say every day your business is late to AI. You fall two days behind in the competition. they're only moving faster. Fortunately, there's NetSuite Next. You probably already know NetSuite, the AI-powered business suite that securely connects all your data, financials, inventory, commerce, HR, and CRM all in one source of truth, trusted by over 43 ,000 customers. NetSuite Next is the next huge leap because now AI is built into everything you do.

39:40It surfaces custom insights throughout your day. AI agents work alongside you on the routine stuff, And anytime you've got a question about anything, you just ask, like you're talking to a colleague. And I use it. And really, I think you should too. For the first time ever, you can try NetSuite Next for free. If your revenue is at least in the seven figures, go to netsuite.ai slash tip. Built for every industry, ready for every boardroom, netsuite.ai slash tip. Curious about online trading, but haven't taken the first step yet? You're not alone. and plus 500 futures is a great place to start. The futures markets are moving fast.

40:19And with plus 500, you can explore popular assets like oil, gold, S &P 500, Bitcoin, and more. From crypto to commodities, there's always something happening. The platform is super easy to use. So you can trade on the go right from your phone. You can get started with just $100 and jump into the action. See something interesting. Once your account is open, you can trade it in just a couple of clicks. And if you're not quite ready yet, you can practice with a free demo account. No risk, no pressure. With 20 years of experience, Plus 500 makes trading more accessible than ever. Check it out at plus500.com.

40:56Trading and futures involves risks of loss and is not suitable for everyone. Not all applicants will qualify. Plus 500. It's trading with a plus. All right, back to the show. What I also find appealing about the Remitly story is you have this legacy player in Western Union, which based on my understanding, you know, has all these physical locations, whereas Remitly is uniquely well positioned because they're a digitally native product, right? So it's a bit of an innovator's dilemma problem where Western Union has substantial share today, but they're losing share to players like Remitly. So yeah, I think it plays well into that dynamic you mentioned earlier where Remitly is a share gainer, and they're benefiting from the growth in the broader remittances market overall.

41:41Yeah, absolutely. You have this giant Western unit, their payment volume is about 120 billion or so, where Remitly run rates around 80 or so. So you have this giant player in the space that's going to just very steadily continue to seed share. They've had to make an acquisition recently of a regional player just so they can kind of show, boost their revenue inorganically. But yeah, they're going to continue to seed share and Remitly is the direct beneficiary. So you have tailwinds, you have a huge player in the space that is just going to be consistently seeding share. You have just a better product.

42:15I just think there's a whole host of reasons just to be really bullish over the long term. So I have no idea what the stock's going to do the short term. But yeah, I think the fundamentals and their ability to create just robust revenue growth is going to continue for structural reasons. We're recording here on August. 19th, 2025. And I believe it was last week that Remitly released their quarterly earnings. Just prior to that, you guys added to your position. And one thing that stuck out to me was that, I guess I should also mention after the earnings release, the stock jumped something like 15, 20%, something like that in that ballpark.

42:49But one thing that stood out to me in that update you guys shared was that you said the PE was 17. And I'd be curious just to hear you walk through the valuation a little bit. That definitely sounds appealing for a company that's growing 30, 40 % a year at the moment. So yeah, how about you just touch on the valuation a little bit, given that this name might be a little difficult for some people just to wrap their arms around? Yeah, it's trading under three times revenue. And I think that it's a company that has really not reached its potential profitability-wise. There's so much growth ahead of it that you would almost feel fine if they'd continue reinvesting and trying to build that growth for the future and so on, which is what they're doing.

43:30They're not really pulling the profit labor as much as they can. But even in that situation, yeah, you have a forward PE of close to 20. You have a revenue multiple of under 3X. So I think that from a valuation perspective, if you say that, hey, this company is going to continue to grow revenue for 30 % plus over the next several years, given their growth profile, I don't know how many stocks out there are trading at a similar valuation. And if you just look at that cohort, I would say they're pretty much going to be top decile as far as from a valuation perspective. So valuation is clearly important.

44:06You want to make sure you're not overpaying. And if you're right about the future of Vermintley and their growth profile, you're getting it at an extraordinarily attractive valuation today. So yeah, it's really that simple. This asset should be trading at north of 5X sales, and it's trading right around three. So that's kind of how we look at it. Before we move on to our next theme, I know you follow several companies in the payment space. Are there any others you think that are worth highlighting here? I know Wise is one that's also in your portfolio and you follow some other names as well. Yeah, I think Wise is a very interesting company.

44:44A lot of people think it's a competitor or a but they play in a much bigger space. If you look at just payments in general, or just cross-border money movement, remittance is just a small part of that. You have businesses paying businesses, you have banks sending a lot of money. The space is 50 trillion or so, and then you have remittances that are around a trillion or other measures cited at two or so on. So WISE is not optimized for the migrant remittance TAM. It's optimizing for another TAMP that is much bigger, which is businesses paying overseas suppliers or neobangs having to send money around that don't want to go through correspondent banking.

45:24So it's really focused on a much bigger markets. And that's why its send amounts are so much higher. It's medium send amounts where Remily's around 300 or so. And you have Wise that is significantly over 10x that for as far as their median send amount. So they're completely different businesses. and anybody who's used the Wyze app and the Remitly app can understand how different they are. Wyze almost feels like a neobank compared to the Remitly app. The Remitly app is just remittances. You have your contacts in there, it's very, very easy to send, totally optimized for that space. But I do think Wyze is doing something very interesting.

45:57The potential there is quite large. The challenge for Wyze is that instead of being more intermediary heavy like Remitly, where Remitly can go anywhere and pretty much just very quickly find the right intermediaries and set up a corridor for people to send certain marketing to people who associate with that corridor and get the ball rolling. Where WISE takes some more heavy lifting with respect to integration into country's local rails. You need a certain membership. You need certain licenses to be able to be a remittance player. So they're like, hey, we want to reduce the amount of intermediaries.

46:34We don't want any intermediaries. We want to plug into their banking system directly. And then that way we can cut out all sorts of costs and stuff, which I think is great, has worked in some corridors, but getting that regulatory approval is very, very difficult in others. They've already done a whole lot of work and they've already had a whole lot of integrations. There's just a long way to go, which is also one of the reasons why Remitly sends to maybe, I think, around 170 countries and WISE is less than half of that or so as far as the different countries you can send to. That being said, I think WISE is very, very interesting.

47:05WISE doesn't have anything to do with the Visa network where Remili, their structure is really built on the Visa network and their migrants send money using their debit card and where WISE tries to influence you not to use your debit. WISE is bad for something like a Visa because WISE continues to grow and grow and grow. Core networks will feel a bit left out where with Remili, it's not the same. Anyway, maybe that was a bit technical, But the whole part of it is that Wise is doing heavy lifting to build out actual piping infrastructure, which I think is very, very useful and can leverage them to a very, very large market if it continues to make progress.

47:41So the upside with Wise is quite large. That being said, you do have regulatory obstacles. So I feel like AI is all a lot of people want to talk about nowadays. It's clear that it's going to be impacting so many industries. And what's interesting about AI now is that many of us can see and experience just how fast some of these things are moving, given the progress of ChatGPT and other LLMs. And you and I can probably see this progress on a weekly or monthly basis, just using it day to day. I don't think it's common for value investors to become well-versed on AI because it's an industry that's just constantly changing, has a lot of capital pouring into it, and it can be difficult to determine who the winners are going to be.

48:27Similar to how in the late 90s, people knew that the internet would be huge, but very few people would end up determining who the winners would be. So how about you talk a little bit about why a decent amount of your research has shifted to this area of the market? Yeah, I think that part of it is existential of sorts. It's affecting so many industries, you want to know how it's going to affect you. Similar to if you were an employee somewhere, you probably want to start learning about AI and how it might affect things or how it might help you and so on. So part of it is just understanding the gravity of the moment and understanding just how huge of a general purpose technology AI is.

49:07So this is also true. If you look back, I remember reading some transcripts from like 1999, it was Coca-Cola. It was, what does Coca-Cola know about the internet in 1999? But they were even talking about like, here's how we're going to leverage the internet to improve our marketing efforts and so on. So you can't avoid it. Every company is talking about how it's affecting them or how they're trying to reposition XYZ or so on. The latest on the hyperscalers is close to half a trillion has been invested in training models and data centers and so on. Anytime you have that level of investment going on, it's kind of important to ask, who might be the beneficiaries there?

49:43Are there any companies that are taking advantage of this? And we've had a lot of success with especially smaller companies that have been pivoting towards providing some solutions for some of these bigger data centers, given their energy needs and so on. So I think that you want to know how the world's changing. It's having such a massive impact on how everything's changing. You want to try to understand how things are changing, whether or not it has any direct investment implications. As an investor, you always want to know how your world's changing. And we tend to be more attracted to dynamism.

50:15We like it when there's a little bit of complexity or people may not know how things are going to, but there's a bit of a fun and war situation. We like to try to analyze the, to be in that area and do some analysis there. And a lot of times you're not going to be able to gain a full understanding and that's fine. But I just think that there has to be more opportunity where there's more dynamism. Robert Leonard You initiated a position in Meta in March of 2022. You're a bit early in the drawdown, but definitely captured a lot of the upside as you closed your position at the end of July this year, representing over a 300 % increase in the stock price over that time period.

50:52And with big tech making up a substantial amount of the S &P 500, many are asking what sort of returns they're going to be getting on this ever-increasing spend on data centers. I'd be really curious to hear your take on how these investments could potentially pan out for them going forward. Yeah, I think that it does seem to be a bit of an arm race at the moment. And I can understand how investors might think there's a lot of capital destruction going on. And I'm sure not every dollar is going to be spent as efficiently. That being said, if you look at maybe Meta's clear example of this, where you alluded to in 2022, we took position and there was also the people thought TikTok was going to eat Meta's lunch and Zuckerberg was going crazy investing in VR.

51:38And there was that Apple data change that also affected things. So just a confluence of we think narratives that promoted selling, promoted just that rapid price decline. But then you can also see that Meta's response to the competitive TikTok pressures where Reels started to massively increase active users and engagement. And it was clear that, hey, they're responding to whatever the market thinks this threat is. And there's actually evident, you can actually see the progress being made. And with respect to meta, they're using AI to make their ads better. It's already helped increase their top line.

52:12So that's probably the, out of all the hyperscalers, I think the best example of how that's improved their return on investment, where it's actually helping businesses, just give us the criteria, what kind of ads you want to make. We'll use AI to test 100 different versions and see which one gives you a better return on ad spend. So that's been an honestly beneficial for Meta. And for most of these hyperscalers, their revenue per employees increased dramatically. You just need less developers to produce the amount of work you do. And obviously, they're all trading their own models, and it's having an impact already.

52:44Whether or not how something like Microsoft, how that's going to affect their top line, or how that's going to help them increase revenues, I think that remains to be seen. but you're already starting to see mass efficiency improvements for all of them. And when it comes to some of the applications of AI, which ones have you found to be most useful and interesting to dive into and take a look at some of the companies that are developing these new technologies? I think there's a lot of areas. There's robotics is one that comes to mind. We basically have the hardware for robotics, but we don't have the brain yet.

53:21And I think there's rapid progress being made there. It's quite similar to how they trained models to play chess or Go, where it was basically unsupervised. You give it the rules of the game, and then it just plays itself trillions of times. It comes up with these really, I think, unique ideas. It knows how to play things very, very efficiently. It's similar to what's happening at Robotics right now. They're testing them through simulations. They're using physical sciences to provide just the rules framework around that simulated reality. And they're optimizing for a certain outcome. And then it's running that simulation trillions of times.

53:58So I think that brain is coming and we're going to combine that with the hardware. That's going to have a massive impact. That's going to be, I think, a very, very exciting future. And that parallels a little bit to defense. I think there's applications in energy. If you look at data centers, at the end of 2025, about 2 % of the electricity being used is going to be used by data centers. So that has a lot of questions for the grid and alternate power sources. And there's a lot of companies that are positioning themselves to provide alternate sources of electricity for data centers. And then there's nuclear that hasn't made the headway that I think a lot of hoped, but that might be in the discussion more and more later.

54:38So there's a lot happening in energy. It's really, really interesting. Okay. Biotech, we haven't dove into quite as much as we'd like to yet. Just the speed of drug discovery and using AI to iterate on how different molecules are binding together and just speeding up drug discovery, I think is going to be very, very interesting. So there's so many, I think, applications that from an investor's perspective, it's just the best time to be alive as an investor. I mean, we're very, very fortunate, I think, especially just the changes in all these technologies and how it's going to impact our lives.

55:11I'm very, very excited for the future. But yeah, those are just some applications that I think are going to have some serious relevance for all of us in the future. Yeah, it does certainly seem that robotics is going to be more and more prevalent. Even Amazon is utilizing more and more of that in their filament centers and whatnot. Tesla is making big investments into that and even have uses outside of manufacturing use case. Are there any companies in your portfolio that that play into this theme of researching and better understanding AI? I think that a company that's using AI to facilitate manufacturing, industrial manufacturing, and that's Xometry.

55:50And I think the more robotics and these prototypes, these short runs that produce these different types of robots to help facilitate any never-ending human needs, Xometry is going to be a huge beneficiary of that, because they provide a platform that enables any sort of manufacturer to submit their CAD designs or whatever those specifications are, and through kind of an AI quoting engine, pick the exact manufacturer to help them to produce these parts. So I think that the more and more robotics are being produced, given that a lot of these robotics are prototype, I think that fits very well in Xometry's hands, which is really a leverage on digital manufacturing.

56:32So we're very excited. That would be one I think that stands out in our portfolio. I have one more fun question before I give you the handoff and close it out here. What is something that you think AI will be able to do in 10 years that would be totally crazy if we saw it today? I think the real breakthrough in AI would be if it helps us solve something that we scientifically that we couldn't solve. I mean, really, if you look at the physical sciences, there hasn't really been a huge breakthrough in the last, since the turn of the century. So are there breakthroughs to be made? And is AI able to do them?

57:08Is it AI more than just a regurgitation of data? And can it create something actually new? It's already done it in certain games where I talked about chess earlier, or Go, where it's made a move that no human has ever seen. It almost doesn't make sense from a human perspective. Is that going to happen with something like science? that remains to be seen. And I think that that would be the next huge breakthrough. It just takes the human race to an unbelievable next level. So I mean, is that going to happen in 10 years? I have no idea, but that would be pretty exciting. Yeah, I'm reminded of a book I just finished on the story of ASML and ASML and building these lithography machines.

57:47These are some of the most complex machines on earth and no person understands how they work, but I think eventually AI is going to help them figure out how to continue Moore's law and think in ways that humans just can't possibly even imagine. Yeah, just some of those advances on those techniques are unbelievable. Getting down to one nanometer or something, I mean, it's crazy. That level of technological advancement in that arena has been so impressive. So yeah, if AI can help us there, I'm just very excited to see it. All right, Dea, well, I really appreciate you joining me here today. For those that are interested in learning more about you and the work that you do, where can they go?

58:25Very happy to be here too. Thank you very much for the discussion. Anybody that wants to learn more about our business, visit us at pronostresearch.com. We produce actionable stock research for professional investors and RIAs. So anybody that wants to take a look, that's where to go. Excellent. Well, thanks again, Dey. I really appreciate it. Thank you for listening to TIP. Make sure to follow We Study Billionaires on your favorite podcast app and never miss out on episodes. To access our show notes, transcripts, or courses, go to theinvestorspodcast.com. This show is for entertainment purposes only.

58:59Before making any decision, consult a professional. This show is copyrighted by The Investor's Podcast Network. Written permission must be granted before syndication or rebroadcasting.