Can You Be a Doctor AND an Elite Athlete? | Saskia Millard | Ep 54

0:00Saskia Millard, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me on. To me, you are one of the most impressive people that have come into High Rocks as of recent. I feel like you've come into High Rocks and you've just wiped the floor and dominated. Thank you. For the people that may not know who you are, would you just be able to kind of just give a little bit of an introduction to yourself? yeah of course i'm saskia i'm 26 years old and i'm from london and i am well i've come from a running background so i've been running since i was about nine years old um i'm also a full-time doctor and i've just started high rocks full-time doctor starting high rocks you've just explained that this week you've got a load of night shifts and you do a lot of shift work it's it's crazy that you've got to the standard that you've got to in such a short amount of time do you think that is down to kind of like your running background yeah for sure for sure I think I've been running for so like 17 years now so I've kind of got that base I know how to train I think I've learned so much about my body over those years as well um that I've yeah I've got a really good understanding and just I think that training base like years of training years of kind of building up the muscle mental strength as well um and then just like general fitness and i've been able to translate that into high rocks quite quickly um but obviously there's a lot of areas that i started to work on when starting out like your your running journey was you part of like an athletics team yeah yeah so i start when i was nine i think i was entered it was like a primary school um i was entered by my p teachers just in like a local cross-country race um which actually won and I loved it it was so good um so after that I just went down to the local athletics club which for me was Hanhill Harriers um and joined a brilliant group like I had the best coach he was called James McDonald and I stayed with him for eight years I think um and he kind of took me up through the junior ranks uh we had a really good training group my brother was there as well so we'd both go to all the races together do all the training together um and yeah it was it was really good so yeah what uh distance did you kind of hone in on and was the i assume it was like a middle distance group that you yeah as part of yeah so actually when i was younger i was kind of a bit more speed so i did 800s um and kind of dab with 1500 um but we'd always do cross country in the winter so kind of in athletics you do the summers track season winters cross country um or indoors and so i do a bit of cross country which i hated i wasn't very good at it the longest stuff I hated it um then coming to indoors where I'd focus on 800 and then come to the outdoor season where I'd do like 800 1500 um so yeah those are kind of my distances growing up and then when I got older kind of moved up to 5k but I think that's not too far for me so I've come back down to 1500 which is your favorite distance to run 1500 1500 out of anything um have you have you done more than that like competitively so have you done more than 5k no never so you've never done like 10k is half marathons or anything like that i think be very hard pushed to get me to do one yeah no it's interesting because uh i've spoke to quite a few people and uh like 1500 meter to 5k is kind of optimal training for high rocks yeah i would agree with that yeah and it carries over quite well a lot of people have said that um back then what was kind of like a typical week of training so when i was younger yeah when you're not like nine but like say when you was you know competing 1500 meters and going into 5k yeah like was you doing a lot of miles so actually i've always kept my miles quite low um i've had a lot of injuries and actually growing up i kind of did every sport so my my school was really good um at helping with that so all through school till I was about 18 I was playing hockey netball did loads of swimming water polo um I was like rounders you know all this kind of sport so I'd do loads of different sports and I think that helped me get that kind of like general fitness um and just like cross training um so and my parents both work in sports medicines they've always been quite keen on making sure I don't focus too early on running and also don't do too many miles because you see so many people so many people i was competing against when i was younger like kind of top of the sport um running these crazy times uh and like in a really elite elite level very early on and they burn out um because they were just doing too much bodies weren't strong enough to cope with that um or they were over training under fielding all those kind of things um so yeah i was always i was only allowed to run two times a week um and to be honest i still do two times a week yeah so when i was talking about my parents were really strict i remember the number of times i would like beg them to go on on a long run on a sunday or something with the group and they'd say no you have to go play hockey or like you know and they they're never they've never been pushy at all it's actually been complete other way so they're holding me back um i would if if it was up to me i'd do sport all day every day um but obviously can't do that and yeah so i'd train on a tuesday at the track with a group and that would be kind of just a middle distance session and then what's the typical session um back then it'd be kind of 200s to 400 meter reps um i remember some sessions were even just 60 meters like 6 by 60 meters and it's awful um so that kind of stuff like fast and particularly back then I was more of a 800 meter runner so I was like trying to work on that top speed um and then on a Saturday I'd either race or do like another kind of more of like a cross-country type session so hills or grass um and then that'd be it and then everything else in the week was just like playing sport where yeah really you are base building you're building like aerobic work but it's more in like a team setting a fun setting yeah so I did loads of hockey actually loads of water polo that was kind of one of my main sports in school um and swimming so yeah like again it's all base but it's just kind of different kind of load um different stimuli and yeah a lot more more power and speed i would say it's interesting question your school did it have like a swimming ball yeah yeah i was very lucky did you go to i got sports got it was it was um it's called allanes in dulwich yeah it was really good i was very lucky yeah it's mad our school didn't even have uh netting for the football nets they used to get burnt so they used to put them on put new ones on every year and within like a week someone had set fire to them oh my goodness yeah we didn't have like 3g astroturf or anything like that like it was like the 2g sand do you know the yeah yeah yeah if you slide on it yeah awful uh great for great for hockey but i don't think it was great for anything else um just because the ball moved fast but yeah it was pretty rough so yeah fair play fair play um but yeah water polo that wasn't even an option i don't think i didn't even i didn't even know what that was back then but um yeah that's class so progressing onto like your like i don't know obviously you've been you've been running you still run now like how did you get into high rocks like so it was actually kind of two different ways so this time last year i met holly um at a wedding so it was like a runner's wedding um and we both happened to be there and i knew of her like i think we'd probably raced against each other a few times and um i like was in awe of her basically because obviously she's very big deal in the running world um with a world silver medal european silver medal um and so i followed her on instagram and i saw her at the wedding i was so nervous so um everyone's like you need to go and speak to me i was like no more pims and then i'll go um and then anyway i did end up going to speak to him we got on so well straight away and she was telling me all about high rocks i'd never heard of it um but i thought it sounded quite fun um so we we kind of planned you know when you meet so i say oh yeah we'll do one together I was like yeah yeah um so that was this time last year and then it got to I don't know start of the winter and in my boyfriend's he's got like a group chat with his friends and they ranked all the couples in his friendship group and where they thought they'd finish in a high rocks and they put me in him last and I was like I'm not having that so actually it's like Jake Smith is in that group chat I think he was quite high up with his girlfriend I was like no I'm not having that um so I entered us and the only one I could enter was Stockholm um in December so we went and did that as a doubles and I loved it it was so much fun um I just like turned up I actually started crying when we walked in because you have like the atmosphere and the music and so many people and it feels like you walk in it's like a cult um and I loved it I was like hooked right from the start um and yeah kind of since then I think then Holly saw that result um what time did you get to your first ever one that was with you both so that was together we did 56 58 or something like that but he also um used to be an international runner um and then i also did london olympia which i entered i think that was actually the week before it just i entered it two days before just as kind of like actually it was kind of a little bit of sneaky training before i did it with him um and i'd never tried any of the stations before and it was i just remember it being i i think the first run i went out and in my head I was like oh I can do this this is easy did the first k way too quickly got to the skier I could never tried skier before so um never like touched the skier never touched skier and I remember um Gabby Moriarty was next to me and she was actually laughing at me in the high rocks like in a nice way um but she was like what is this girl doing because I think my time was all over the place and then uh got to the sled push again and never touched the sled and I barely move it what position were you when you hit the sub push uh I was in first but it was because I was like absolutely sending the runs and then got to the said pull still in first so I had all these cameras on me and like people were watching like who is this girl and I burst into tears because I just couldn't move it and I remember like turning around my boyfriend was standing right there I was like I actually don't know what to do I can't move it um and yeah so I think I went from first to like very load um and then after that it was a bit of reality check and i um slowed down a bit on the runs and managed to get through the rest of the stations i think i did 65 high something like that um not bad was it uh i assume that was a pro race yeah i i didn't know there was a pro open and she just opened just signed up to a race and it turned out to be the pro race yeah 65 for your first one when you don't know what a skier is is insane that's crazy like people train so hard and so long for that and the the fact that that's kind of like your starting point just shows like how much obviously potential you you had and you still have but yeah so after that um what was your next race uh then it was with holly so she sent me a message um i think in january this year um Just saying like, oh, I saw your times.

11:42Would you want to do one together? And I was like, oh my God, Holly Archer. Like, yeah, of course I'll do it with you. So I managed to get a day of annual leave and went up to, we went to Manchester. So I literally just went up and back in the same day. I was completely like starstruck. She turned up, she had like her videographers and a media team. I'd never seen any of that before. Like in running, it's not like that. Like I've competed at a high level. I've been to European juniors and world students and things. and I've never had anything like that so that was all like very cool um and actually we did really well there um I think we ran 56 something um and just lost to Ida and Ellie uh who were also in Manchester and we were just off the um British record actually but we'd got a penalty so I think if we hadn't got that penalty at the time it would have been a British record and after that I was just like both of us were like oh we we can do this and actually I was like this is kind of what i want to do um so yeah yeah that's uh that's an insane time and then when was your next pro like uh have you done other singles yeah so i've done four races my next one i think was glasgow glasgow yeah um i had a shocker to be honest it was i'd just i'd been on holiday a ski holiday came straight from that to do the race um and i was knackered i'd had norovirus while we were away so i was like not very well done no training for about a week and a half um and actually i surprised myself like i felt okay on the runs my warbles took me eight and a half minutes which was pretty awful um and yeah so it wasn't great i think that was 62 um so like it was a lot better um but i knew if i could just do some more warbles like i could knock a big big chunk off um my time there so actually that was quite a positive like i remember being really happy after that race um and then the next one was london um olympia that was yeah and that was um where i broke the european records that was really cool what time did you get uh then i did 57 24 so you took off it was like five minutes but i think the the problem was before i'm taking like these big chunks of time off each race and obviously that's not sustainable but yeah did you did you win that like yeah the whole thing yeah in london which was a nine-day event right yeah yeah so that's that's crazy and then have you competed with holly since um well we've done uh kind of majors uh together so we did Warsaw um and where well we've had quite a few penalty problems um so it's so funny so it's like obviously like I say they're funny obviously like they hurt but like I don't know I think you'll look back and you'll be like yeah I think it's all character building and like we're still very new to the sport I mean Holly's done it a little bit longer but still competing at this kind of level like we're both very new to it and there are so many different rules and the rules are changing so we just need to make sure we stay on top of it like afterwards the number of people that sent me the rule book like so many people so it kind of like opens eyes and it's almost like a good thing because it shows your potential yeah that's what i think that's what i think like if we can do those kind of times getting two and a half minute penalty and yeah the two and a half minutes standing in that penalty box was pretty awful um but you know we got upset after but within for me literally the next day i was like right like yeah we can do this i think it was it the day before warsaw i think obviously london had been the day before warsaw did you did holly put up something like no penalties like the number one thing is to get no penalties we made i remember we were lying in bed we made this like kind of like mean thing about about penalties and just yeah did not age well we found ourselves so funny we're like of course i'm not going to get a penalty this time like yeah so and then and then that's the one where you got two and a half minutes yeah yeah yeah i think in london because sorry we also did london the london major um and we got one and a half minutes there so that was for cutting across the sled lane um which yeah and then uh world champs how did that go actually like really good i think that was a much more positive experience um so i'd done the solo the day before and actually that was kind of the first time i'd done two races back to back um which is really tough i don't think it's talked about enough how tough that is because you see all these people on instagram and social media who are doing like a solo and then a mixed doubles and then a women's doubles and back to back i don't know how they do it it's so difficult um so the doubles with holly i i actually really struggled i felt pretty rubbish for the first few runs and got into it um and we did really well it was i think we just actually enjoyed that there wasn't as much pressure um so we weren't competing in the elite 15 which actually i think was a positive i think looking back on it now I know definitely in terms of the individual event I'm not I wasn't ready for to be competing in elite 15 um solo but I think as well the doubles were not quite ready like I'd say mentally it's it feels like quite a big step up even just the majors we've done like you're walking out into a big stadium it's very new to us and it's quite overwhelming um and I know in Warsaw both of us struggled like with our breathing and on the runs it does feel quite overwhelming um and it actually kind of puts a little bit of a negative on the experience um I don't really remember most of those races and actually the races where I've run well so like London Olympia I did Barcelona and both of those I enjoyed it the whole way through I listened to all the music I like see the crowd um and I kind of take it all in as I'm running and those majors I haven't and and like i think that's what i need to change to make it more like just fun that's when i compete yeah it is it is uh especially the first time you do it like it's so nerve-wracking yeah the elite 15 like it's such an amazing experience if you can take it in yeah also like i don't know sometimes you just black out you don't remember the race yeah and you have like all the media the day before it just feels like a massive build up to it it's usually in the evenings you've got all day thinking about it and yeah i mean just the whole thing is completely different to running you're never in a start even at my biggest races like you just kind of you have a cool room which is maximum 20 minutes and then you go out and in in high rocks you have like all the media stuff wait all day and then you come out into this like amazing the red bull start tunnel and then you're going out into these often like massive stadiums with loads of people you've got all your smoke and your power techniques and all that kind of stuff and it's like it is overwhelming yeah no it is crazy what's uh what's your training looking like you mentioned before that you still only run like twice a week obviously you've got a full-time job as well so how do you balance like the training and what is it all like yeah um so i think my training i think in high rocks firstly like no one really knows what the right training is which is quite nice because everyone's doing very different stuff and i think we can all learn from each other and yeah there's no ideal training at the moment um so my training from what i've seen looks very different to most other people's um coming from more of like a running background i think i i'm lucky because i do have that kind of base already um so now yeah i run two or three times a week my mileage is very low i keep it like well below 20 miles a week um more about about 15 12 to 15 miles so what will these sessions look like um so most of it i think is like speed speed work high intensity like lactate kind of work um and yeah so i think i'm actually coached by my dad um which is really really nice because i think he understands me he's not pushy at all but he like really listens to me and particularly with work like if I've had a long day at work or if my shift pattern's slightly changing like next week I'm on nights and my training kind of goes out the window um but he'll adapt everything to that and really listens to me um but also his training philosophy is quite different so obviously you have like your more general fitness parameters like your vo2 max your threshold pace your max power output whatever um for him it's more about like resilience so yeah you can have these performance markers and you want to whatever your best is on a day but for him it's more like how many of these days can you put back to back where you just it doesn't have to be your best session ever but like good sessions just putting them back to back and it's more about your long-term resilience and i think his training approach is more about just sustainability um because for me that's been a big problem like I can't even remember how many years um I've I've never managed to go more than a few months really without getting injured um particularly throughout university I would put in a really good block like three months get really really fit be just about to race and like I'd always say I'm in the shape of my life and then get injured and then I'd have another four months out and then go back and build up again and same and kind of just a cycle of that um and actually since starting my dad touch wood like it's been two years and i've managed to like build um so you've not been injured for the last two years i hurt my plantar fascia last year but i was playing golf so it doesn't really count um and yeah um so it's been really really good but the the whole training focus has been completely different so minimum miles and the miles i do like every basically every mile I do has a purpose um because yeah I've had a lot of stress fractures and if I'm just doing junk mile I like I've not done an easy run for years um and a lot more focus on gym strength which has all been actually this was like before high rock so he's been coaching me for two years so the past two years I've been really trying to focus on getting stronger getting that like muscle bulk to protect my bones um and just to kind of make sure my training is more sustainable um and then if i do do easy stuff it'll be on the elliptical generally or the bike or swim or something yeah a bit different so these three two or three sessions that you do per week are they all on the track yeah yeah yeah you're doing two or three track sessions and like so will be two track sessions so one like kind of top speed one like more lactate threshold kind of um thing and then so what are they looking like like what's an example session um say at the moment i've been doing like eight by 400 off short recovery so you're hitting lactate and then going again and recovery like 30 seconds to a minute yeah i wouldn't yeah yeah yeah so it's kind of like yeah i think because so much of it is that you come off a sled and you hit lactate and then you've got to run again and actually by doing loads of k reps or by doing i don't know some longer stuff like yeah it's great you need that base but it doesn't help you when you're coming off that sled and you've filled with lactate and you've got to clear it yeah yeah it makes sense um what paces so say for example you do eight 400s what what pace well how many seconds go up i'll be aiming at the moment for around 64 63 64 seconds okay so that's quick yeah i mean i'm also training for 50 so for the next month i'm just racing 1500s so um that's kind of what my what my training is geared for probably when i go back to high rocks training it might change a bit um go a little bit slower um a little bit longer distances or not again it's the my keeping the mileage low but um yeah probably yeah that's interesting so you do so one session a bit let's say eight by four hundred or six sixty seconds rest um hitting them really fast paces 63 64 seconds per lap which uh per k what's that like 230 to 235 or something like that something yeah yeah it's quick definitely sub three yeah okay um which is quick then um what's your other session your other track session it to one so probably be quite similar um more like high maybe either it will be even quicker so 200 meter reps or it'll be slightly longer like six to 800 but don't generally run further than that okay which is why when you're saying would you run further 10k's half marathon no way no way no way and then uh say if you do throw in like a third session yeah what's that looking like is it a bit of a longer faster yeah in in the past i've done that more of kind of like a progression um i do also have my like tempo i i don't know i think in in running i'd call it my tempo zone so that's like the point where your lactate um production is equal to lactate clearance yeah around there so i'd be doing some some kind of longer yeah yeah some kind of longer efforts at that pace um but again no more than 10 minutes um and then yeah or would you do like three or four efforts of that or yeah yeah you do like three by 10 minutes if it was 10 minutes maybe three by three or four by six minutes three or four by six minutes yeah or like two by 10 minutes off how much rest and would it be a jogging rest or would it be a standing still rest i do standing still rest yeah um like a minute and a half two minutes yeah so you've got them three sessions then what's the the other bits of your training looking like so i assume the rest is mainly gym okay i think actually ideally so i'm gonna go down to um four days a week soon which will be really really nice for work congratulations by the way big step thank you yeah i'm really excited um but i think then i'll have more time to kind of focus on the rest of it but at the moment it's probably quite a good thing i think it's kept me a bit like restrained um that if i have like other time for training i have to really prioritize what i'm looking to gain from that um so for me at the moment it's been gym um like strength and conditioning and so actually since stockholm i've just started doing my first ever upper body sessions which like i've never done before i'm terrible at it um but it's something i know i've i needed to add in for a while um so yeah kind of gym work is what i do in in the rest of it what what are them sessions looking like so you i assume you do one upper body session a week um all right is it it's kind of all but each one will be okay kind of a bit of everything okay okay are you doing any specific technique work uh no again that's something i need to introduce so you're not doing like any rowing or skiing um well i've just started again trying to do a little bit of like fast ski or row at the start of my gym sessions um but that was i started that last week um so before that you didn't really practice a ski or roll not not really i the thing is like i don't have very much time like i'm working my long days will be like 14 hour shifts um and you're too tired to train really um around those and then the other days i'm doing either track or like more general gym so actually it's been really difficult at the moment to fit everything in so literally at the moment or before before world champs you was literally doing your three runs a week or three running sessions a week you're doing gym work but is that like just strength are you getting out of breath with these gym workouts no more like strength max power yeah max power max strength what are you doing are you doing like plyometrics are you doing or is it just kind of like getting stronger yeah getting stronger my gym has improved so much like at at university like one day like you know just a gym session yeah so i mean at university and the whole time so when i left i was 24 never squatted more than 40 kilos in my life and actually now i'm up to nearly 80 so i'm quite proud of that um but it's kind of building up these i i'm my strength and conditioning like background is really minimal um so like yeah i'll do some squats um some i've just started doing cleans um like leg press leg extension um some kind of i've just started doing some bulgarian split squats um i don't even know the name of all the upper body exercises now do you do you do like the highest movement do you push this lead at all do you pull a sled no no the only time really i touch sleds is in no i actually sound terrible right now no no you don't sound terrible do you know what i'm thinking i'm thinking this is this is insane the fact that you've got a 57 minute pro high rocks and 57 yeah yeah 57 minute pro high rocks and there's all these things that you can work on yeah i mean i think it's really exciting like i i think i can definitely knock minutes off when i start all the training but like my dad's philosophy is like you've got years this is like a four-year project you know you don't need to be doing all of this now the more you introduce because all of the i think hyrox is so like my boyfriend's just started training for it as well and i think like the fatigue you get from even one kind of session like it's a lot and it's all these new movements new techniques new completely new muscle groups i've never used before and actually the overload if you're still trying to be doing all the running sessions and i think people don't realize actually like you don't get the benefits from the training you get the benefits from the recovery um like that's when your muscles are going to repair your mitochondria adaptation all that kind of stuff happens in the recovery and actually if you keep just beasting session after session like you're not actually your performance is going to plateau or just decline um so yeah i think i'm trying to build up really slowly and also i don't actually have access to a sled at the moment like and i've just maybe found a gym with a sled so that that'll be cool um i imagine getting into the elite 15 obviously it's for doubles at the moment but getting into the elite 15 without having a sled in your gym like that that is insane yeah without practicing ski or row or anything like that that's that's crazy but like i say it just shows how much potential you've got if i was a brand listening to this podcast i'd i'd sign you but that way i put your money put my money on you um over the next couple of years if obviously you start incorporating and stuff like you say yeah and i think as soon as i go down to part time or like four days a week and two weeks time um i'll have a lot more time just for recovery like having a line and then also yeah i'm going to try and introduce like a bit of plyometrics um and i'd like to do some more specific erg work um do you do much plyometrics obviously you're running is quite fast so you could technically say here's plyometrics i assume you do strides and drills and stuff like that as well yeah um are you doing anything in the gym that's plyometric um so because i've had a lot of bone injuries i've had to build that really carefully um and actually have you found out what that was from by the way like the bone injuries i mean i think yeah definitely kind of red s going through university definitely like red s related i was i think my training i wouldn't say my training volume was massive because I don't think it ever has been that big um but it's the red s is all about like your relative energy expenditure isn't it so I just wasn't getting enough in um and I've worked with like some nutritionists um seen sports medicine doctors um and it's just so interesting I think it's so prevalent and I think hopefully less than high rocks but coming from a running background it's such a massive problem um and there's definitely like a lot more awareness like on social media and everything now um but yeah i mean actually ideally i'd love to get involved in that kind of like sports medicine particularly females eventually that'd be like my long-term career goal that is really interesting recently we had uh jake smith on yeah and he you know he talks about kind of like his his mindset towards nutrition yeah before red s and like the things that he'd avoid water because he thought oh that that's makes me heavier it's going to make me slower so he avoided drinking water yeah i mean it's really difficult like headspace to be in particularly have you struggled with it yourself like with like the nutrition side yeah i think i mean yeah intentionally or unintentionally you you kind of so it's not been like you've been avoiding it it's kind of like you just forget about it almost i think it's always been difficult like throughout med school i was but like training and placement all day and like you're working hard revising and and it can be difficult to make sure you're doing all the right meal prep and so it's just more like forgetting because you're so busy yeah but i also i also think that as soon as you start kind of you lose a little bit of weight and then actually think oh kind of you know your power to weight ratio will increase you get this you get a performance benefit initially like a short term it's it's a very short term mindset um but actually you do see that performance benefit you get the perceived kind of like benefits and you feel better um but i know for me it's not sustainable like i've i've actually had two fractured femurs which age 26 that's a terrible thing to say um and yeah so it's obviously short term it's very narrow-minded of thinking but when you get into that kind of cycle it's quite it is difficult to break and you definitely need to work with like professionals um and it needs to come from you you need to want to make that change and realize like for me i found the best way to get out of it was actually to do more research into it myself um i think obviously it's different for different people but for me if i can see the science behind oh actually i need to feel for kind of to repair these muscles and get this adaptation after training and all those kind of things i was like oh yeah actually one of the biggest differences i've seen in my training has come from just having a pint of milk as soon as i finish any kind of exercise and it's made so much difference i thought why did i not start doing that when i was 10 like if i'd done that from the age when i first started running all the way through i think i would be so much better than i am now um from such a small thing what kind of milk skim milk semi-skimmed i like chocolate fudge milk from aldi chocolate fudge milk come on chocolate milk's the rate all the the rave at the moment in it yeah so how like say you've that's one change that you've kind of like made um you mentioned that it's like really prevalent and you think it's more prevalent than people think especially within women yeah like what other changes have you made that's like positively impacted your performance but like your health as well yeah i think so in terms of like menstrual cycles i think it's so important it's everyone's very different so it's quite difficult to like come up with like blanket advice but i think for each um female they definitely should be like understanding their own cycle and um kind of tracking it and i think i think there's actually so much research that could be done and i think it's fascinating i'd love to get involved later down the line um but i think you need to be understanding your menstrual cycle to work out if you're under fueling you know you need to know when to back off you need to understand your own body and that's something i've done over years so i've had a lot of injuries but then actually i've known like prior to each one or if my training volume slightly increased or i felt a bit more tired or i've been a bit more irritable or actually my sleep's not been quite as good i actually know they're all signs that i am under fueling or i'm over training or both um and that's the point where really need to listen to your body and back off so I think like my main advice would definitely be to listen to your body and understand your own body and that does take time and I think as hyrocs is quite a new sport it's going to take a while for quite a lot quite a lot of people who are just starting out um to have that same understanding I know it's taking me years and years and years um but definitely understanding if you can track it and even writing down like you finish the session or write write how you feel write a few comments and then if you can look back on that and you can start to see like patterns and um kind of work out from that so that's what i'd say um yeah but i do think there's so much interesting research like even like different stages particularly for high rocks so like when you're in your luteal phase you're um you kind of carbohydrate utilization changes completely your body temperature core body temperature can increase perhaps like half a degree i think um and also your breathing rate all of that changes and when you think about like warsaw was a really hot stadium and competing got so sweaty but if you're in your luteal phase then actually like you can feel it even more um and like the bc i'm sure it's the same with marathon runners if you're competing over long distances and you're hot but all of this kind of stuff is really interesting i think there's loads of research and actually if you're at that point in your cycle you might want to put more um more energy or more focus on your like hydration and your cooling before the race or during the race and yeah i think there's just a lot a lot of research that can be done yeah it's interesting i've seen like research especially for women about um you know avoiding fasting before training oh yeah i would never i think that's been quite ingrained for me actually from a young age like with both my parents in sports medicine i would never do anything fast what's the typical like pre-workout meal um or snack so like if i'm training in the morning so i'm doing a track session in the morning i'd have a bowl of cereal bagel sometimes even have milk before but with breakfast as well um and i've just started having like carbs and electrolytes um during a session which even my sessions are quite short so i'm not sure how much difference it makes but even just as like a placebo or you know um i quite like that and then straight away chocolate milk does your dad go with you to the track yeah yeah yeah every track session he loves it it's it's so nice yeah yeah yeah no that's uh that's amazing is there any other kind of like methods of either recovery or training that you do so maybe do you do any sauna do any do you sleep well do you it's that's something i think even my sleep like i know there's lots of room for improvement at the moment I kind of feel like I'm just getting by like I'll finish the session get home cook dinner by the time I get in bed it can sometimes be quite late and I'll be up really early because I'm straight back into work long day and it's kind of just a cycle so at the moment I feel like I'm just about getting away with it but I've got two weeks and then cutting down um which hopefully will make a big difference so no I don't really have time to do sauna um I think the first thing I'm going to change is my sleep like definitely a lot more focus needs to be on sleep um but I guess just yeah like working as a doctor I think I have all these other things so I've got like just the the physical stress and emotional stress of that sleep deprivation I mean there have been days like I've been absolutely exhausted and and you're still having to run around you get a met call from other side of the hospital you have to sprint and like yeah you can't someone's dying like there's no choice i can't say sorry it's rest day um of course yeah that takes priority and do you see that at the moment do you see like your work is number one priority and competing is number two at the moment i don't think i think i see them both quite differently so actually at work i haven't really told anyone about my high rocks or like my running so they're quite no so they're quite separate um like people say what do you do at the weekend yeah that was nice thanks i was in warsaw i was in stockholm yeah that's fine yeah um so saskia within work is like they don't know that you do run in or they don't know that you do there's a couple of people but no one really knows that you do high rocks no and i think actually it's quite nice because no matter how performance goes i think it takes the pressure off yeah so like after Warsaw I was obviously really sad but I came back into work on Monday quite a lot of the patients on the ward were the same patients like it was kind of like I'd never been away and you kind of just go back in reset it makes it a lot easier to reset um also I feel like it keeps me grounded um and also I think it makes me remember never to take things for granted like I'm very lucky to be able to compete to be able to go out there and push my body like I do and you're seeing all these people in the hospital who i'm sure would love to be able to do that actually it's like i'm very very lucky and i need to remember that so i think it's a good way good way of reminding myself yeah no it's interesting it's nice that you have that kind of like mindset as well um because training's hard and some i don't know it's very easy to get into kind of like the habit that like you know competing at a high level within a sport like it's tedious and it's hard and it's it's like you say but it's a we're fortunate to be able to do it yeah yeah definitely privilege definitely i mean this is this has been my dream since yeah i mean i i watch i remember watching 2008 beijing olympics and i was like oh my whole dream would be to be a professional athlete actually i thought all through my teens i was like my dream i really just want to be in a diamond league like i remember being in school and i'd be like drawing pictures of diamond league i'd be checking my watch in every lesson like you know I was like obsessed and then I went to university had a lot of injury problems never quite got to that top level like I did I did European juniors um a couple of times and I got a wild silver medal at um the university uh cross-country championships which was really cool and it's all amazing but like I'd never quite made it to that next level um and I was still quite way off and so I kind of came out of university and thought oh well I'm now going into full-time work like that's that dream over and I'd kind of come to accept it um but I'm I've always been very competitive so like I was never going to give up training and actually I moved back home as I was living at home and working and actually it was a really nice environment um like I don't know I'd still be able to train hard my parents I'm very lucky my parents have been so supportive like I'd go to work train and come back and dinner would be on the table and like I'm very lucky um but yeah I kind of thought all of that was was over and then actually high rocks has been like it's given me a completely new chance and I'm 26 which in high rocks at the moment it seems actually kind of more towards the younger age but in athletics it's quite old like I don't think I would ever be thinking about signing a contract now um but yeah i've now just signed with adidas which is so crazy like it doesn't feel real at all and yeah i've got like a whole new sports career and i can actually say i'm a professional athlete now which is just the best feeling in the world that is insane and credit to like you say yourself for showing adidas what what you can do and the potential um obviously like you say you're gonna go down to four days a week is the are you going to keep them both up if that makes sense are you gonna try and be a doctor for as long as possible or is there a potential point where you might try and go full-time athlete yeah so i'm still doing my rotations at the moment as like a junior doctor so at the moment i'm on a and e and major trauma um i'm about to move to psychiatry so like i'm still doing blocks in different specialties um so i need to finish all those and actually if i can go down to part-time i think i can manage that and then once i've finished to finish um well because i'm doing it over less time it'll now be 2028 when i finish that so i definitely want to keep going until then um and then after that i guess i can reassess but actually I did do straight after med school when I graduated um I took a year out and I just focused on running and actually it was terrible for me I initially was running a bit better I had more time to recover but I think it's actually a lot harder mentally for me like I need I think mental stimulation and I was kind of getting so in my own head getting so worked up every session would be like I'd have so much time afterwards I'd reflect on it so much that actually I was getting too much into the stats and it was having a really negative effect on my performance then I got injured um I had my plantar fascia um and didn't run for like four months and actually there was quite like minimal training I could do in that time and I really struggled with it and actually was in quite like a negative and mental place and actually then I started working and I think balancing them both alongside has actually been much better for me I think it means I don't get so focused on one thing and then if say my training starts going a little bit worse I can focus a little bit more on the medicine or like vice versa and actually it's for me it's much nicer I think I would actually perform a lot worse if I went full-time athlete but I know it's very individual but I think just for me yeah no no I see it all the time where people go full-time and they get worse results yeah um like i say i think normally it's just because of the pressure like shit now i need to perform because i've got nothing else whereas like you have almost something to fall back on which takes the pressure off so you can just like enjoy it yeah and enjoying something obviously then you get the best results yeah exactly i think that's actually the key like it is enjoying enjoying it i think even in high rocks and running all the races i've performed the best at I've one I've been on that start line excited and when I'm like actually competing I kind of lock into the crowd and the music and like that's the things I focus on when I'm performing badly I'll go like very internal and I'm I can think about oh I'm in so much pain this is so hard I block out everything else and I perform way worse so yeah definitely definitely it's much easier said than done but like if you can enjoy enjoy performing and enjoy competing that's i think the key to success yeah well it's it's really is really interesting um what's next for you because let's say you're working full-time we've got this point system now we've got to be racing a lot if you want to make it into the elite 15 what's your plan for all that where's your first race um like you say you're doing track before that yeah so actually so i came off the back of stockholm i think um i was planning on having some downtime after that but then i thought actually i'm really fit my track times aren't where i want them to be like i don't think my pvs reflect my training or the shape i've been in so i thought actually i'm now going to go into a track block get some 15s and I think I've got three 1500s um lined up after this just like some low-key ones in London but just I really want to get some times down um then I'm going to have a break um because I think it's really important to have that reset and I think actually with the high rocks calendar it's quite difficult I know a few people have spoken about this before but it's quite difficult to be able to plan your season plan your downtime plan your breaks um because well particularly for me since starting it's been like chasing races because we started so late on in the season to get to world champs get in the elite 15 it's been really difficult and you've needed so many races and now with new point system needing five races I've only done four so I need one more um to even get in the elite 15 and I think from that point then hopefully it'll be a bit a bit calmer and I can actually choose which races I want to do for me rather than just chasing them um but yes i'm doing some 1500s then i need to find one more um pro solo race um and then hopefully i can get in the elite 15 but we'll see that's the aim will you plan to do that for the first major or it's called the elite series now isn't it but uh the first major of the season yeah hopefully which is october time i think yeah maybe the cruise maybe not i don't know yeah i think it's in october yeah cool cool amazing where do you uh where do you see it all going what are your aspirations yeah i mean i think high rocks is just gonna continue to grow like i feel like it's already exploded but i think it's gonna get even bigger like seeing how many people even just walking around london the number of people with the rucksacks and like you know high rock shirts and all it's it's crazy um so i think the sport's going to continue to get bigger and i'd love to like kind of grow with it as well i think um like there's a lot of changes i can make my training i've got a lot of room for improvement hopefully um and so i'd love to get in the elite 15 and actually like podium ideally would your focus be on the singles or doubles i think yeah i think both i think both i think like i think they are quite different sports i think definitely i feel very different in the two two events um but fundamentally it's still the same training like i don't think my training would change if at all um depending on if i was doubles or singles um i think my running would still be the same uh and yeah i mean the stations i have to just get better at the stations anyway um so yeah what did you find the hardest the hardest station burpees burpees was wall balls um but i think i've run a little bit better at them now so yeah burpees what's your all-ball time now um i have no idea no idea how many times you drop bit um quite a lot like five maybe i would love to go unbroken on the wall balls i have it blows my mind how people do that yeah like come in i mean i was watching like the elites and then they're all just going unbroken and then yeah no i mean hopefully give me a year yeah but it just shows that how much time you could just take off that station yeah dropping it five times that's probably 30 seconds right there yeah it could take off yeah just fine i mean i think even in each station like i think it's still quite a new sport and i still i still think the technique is changing so much like on instagram i've seen people doing burpees in so many different ways and like some of these ways actually quite efficient like i think i think all of the different techniques will evolve quite a lot yeah um so it'll be interesting yeah and like you say I feel like you was very humble within your answer when you said that you just want to grow with a sport like you say you want to be within the elite 15 I assume you want to win it I would love to win it and I would love to be honest I would love to get a world record yeah that would be my dream but I've got a lot of work to do before then and I do think like the times some of the times from some of the courses have been so quick that it does make it quite difficult and I know we've now got the well in the elite 15 it'll be the grid format which I've never done before um so that'll interesting i think actually it will feel more like an indoor track so that's just a 200 meter course a 200 meter um it does slow it down a little bit we we did it last year hamburg and melbourne were both kind of like the elite 15 grid where it's basically a 200 meter track with the stations in but in the middle um obviously the grid is a little bit slower because you've got more turns yeah uh and then like you said the runs as well you've got more turns like they're quite they're tight some of them corners like i know a couple of people have actually been practicing like turning oh really yeah oh that's interesting yeah yeah which obviously if you if you run indoor then you don't need practice doing that i mean i actually love indoors so hopefully hopefully yeah they'll sue me yeah what's um where do you think people are going wrong with high rocks and what i mean by that like whether it's a training whether it's the actual stations like when you look at people like is there a gap anywhere where it could like massively improve um i mean to be honest i don't have that much knowledge on the station so i can't really comment on that um but just from a running perspective um i think i almost think people are it I'm not overdoing it I mean I don't know and I think for some people I know there are some athletes who come from because lots of the elites have come from being elite in a different sport so they'll have built that base they'll have their bodies will be like strong enough to deal with that kind of load um so for them maybe it's okay but I think coming into it it's a big toll on your body I just I mean I know I'm struggling a lot with like the fatigue of like the gym stuff it's all new to me and all these exercises are all new and it's it does take like a big toll on your body um but then kind of doing back-to-back hard days like i mean some some people do maybe like threshold and one day the next session a track the next day a track session then the next day high rock session and actually your body doesn't have time to recover like you're yeah you're you're getting all this training in but you're not actually getting any of the adaptation because your muscles can't recover you're not getting any of that like protein synthesis you're not getting your glycogen stores can't replenish then you're going to be going into competitions feeling like exhausted um so yeah i mean on that like performance graph initially yeah obviously you're going to get some benefit but then it's going to platter and then actually at the point where your recovery isn't isn't quick enough the amount of training you're doing you're just going to go off a cliff and like i mean i've definitely experienced that so this is talking from experience um but sometimes less is actually more so I think that's one of the big areas um but then again I see like quite a lot of the elites are doing a lot of training and a lot of training hours at high intensity and they're still performing so I mean it's very individual and I don't know I think my training is different so I don't want to say other people are doing it wrong but um yeah I think that's one one key thing and I know there's been a bit of talk and i've seen a bit more athletes talk about like altitude camps as well um so that could be another another step because i mean it's a very big thing in running like and i've actually been to um font remote a couple of times which i love um and it does make you fit if you do it right it can make you very fit so that's probably another step interesting yeah didn't um i didn't consider like you say that you think people are overdoing it like oh well sorry actually i get what you mean because like in the male field i can't talk females but you've got some people doing 30 hours a week and some people doing 12 hours a week and they're the times are the same yeah but obviously like there's two ways to get there yeah exactly i think i do think it's very individual and i also think that people don't know what the right training is it's a lot of like trial and at the moment and i know for me my dad is coming up with all these different ideas he's like i think there's a lot of chat tpt and a lot of like reading around um like he spends a lot of time reading um but so he's come from background he was a professional rugby player so he's got like a good sports knowledge particularly with strength and conditioning so he's been really helpful with that but before he started coaching me for running he had no experience at all and i think he'd just seen me come away from university having had repeated injuries trying to do too much and too many miles that i couldn't handle um and i i think at the start it was more just like oh i'll just get involved in her training she's living at home it's to stop her doing too much i think that was probably why and then actually he's hopefully started to really enjoy it um and yeah he's been great so um i don't know yeah don't really know what's going on have you got have you got any other hobbies outside of fitness and outside of doctoring um well in my very little time um i mean i love all sports so i play quite a lot like paddle and tennis and just start playing with golf which is fun i'm not very good at it yet but like pretty much any sport i love um do you cook your own food yeah yeah yeah what's your nutrition looking like could definitely do with some improvement i i eat a lot of chocolate i'd say that's like my big um yeah my big weakness but actually then i started i did one year like a few years ago i cut out chocolate for lent and i made it three days and then i just couldn't do anything i like couldn't function so i think yeah around that like uh if you have decent meals yeah yeah hitting your protein yeah i mean i don't track anything um actually i never have but i'm i make sure i think it was actually after one of my stress fractures um i worked with a nutritionist and she was like you're not getting in enough protein and i just didn't realize how much protein you actually need and actually how difficult it is to get that in so i aim for two grams per kilo um of body weight which is a lot like you know not every day though probably not but i'm trying um and i'd say now i eat a lot so like i definitely getting like enough calories i'd say um and yeah i mean i drink a lot of milk so at the moment i'm drinking i drink nearly like two or three pints a day I'd say um have like a lot of yogurt um I'm yeah very wary of my bones uh and then sometimes at work though it could be quite difficult so I'll try and have a big breakfast because I know I can get that in before work try and snack regularly throughout the day so I'll bring like chicken wraps just to snack on um get lunch from the canteen but quite often lunch can be at like six and you'll realize you'll get to like five o 'clock I've not even drunk anything all day and like that's that's the tricky bit i think on weekends or days off like it's it's much easier i can definitely hit all my like getting enough protein have three big meals and three big snacks a day it's like what i tend to aim for um and yeah but sometimes i work it can be very tricky yeah have you got any advice for anyone that does like shift work because i know a lot of people struggle with you know balancing the sleep and the training around like shift work yeah is there any kind of like and nutrition to be fair but like is there any tips that you have like yeah yeah i mean i think it can be quite difficult to get in a routine so i think most people who work like a nine to five would say oh getting in routine going to sleep at the same time it's very difficult to do that um so quite often let's say on a long day i'll finish at 11 and be back in the next day at seven actually that's not enough time like you get home eat sleep and like so i think it's not really about routine but about just being organized so if you can meal prep definitely meal prep as much as you can and if there's someone at home who can make sure like i'm very lucky i'll get home and i have food on the table for me which makes so much difference and actually if i didn't have that i don't think i'd be able to manage um and also just being flexible with training so I'm on nights next week which I know for me really has a big big effect so I know actually racing around nights I have to be really careful it will have to be quite a while after so my next 1500 I think is a week and a half after um and then just being really flexible in my training so if it means I take four rest days in a week I take four rest days like and that's why I'm quite lucky that my dad is so good at listening to me and changing my training based on that um because i'm not going to lose i know i'm not going to lose any fitness like i think it takes over two weeks of nothing to actually lose any any fitness so if i just have a week off i think actually you've got to weigh up the benefit versus the risk and for me the risk is a lot a lot higher by trying to train when i'm so tired like sometimes i'm coming off these night shifts feeling like a zombie and the thought of then having to train you one you I don't think well for me I definitely don't have like um the psychological reserve to actually try and push myself at all after a night shift so I don't actually know how much I would gain from the session anyway um so yeah if I if I was gonna try and train advice for someone if if you're feeling tired if you're struggling after a long shift either just have have some time off um don't do anything that day you're actually probably going to get more benefit from that than trying to do a session or take it really easy um and monitor your heart rate and that like keep your heart rate low and that kind of thing yeah have you got any bad habits um i've got plenty of bad habits i'm sure um i'm i'm not very good at sleeping to be honest i'm i'm very good at procrastinating um what's that just like on the phone before bed usually talking so now i've just moved out actually i live with my brother and my boyfriend which is really fun but we'll stay up like quite late and chat and i don't even know what we do but it tends to get quite late quite quickly um so i'm bad at going to bed um again my diet i think i hate to think how many kilos of m &ms i've eaten this year like it's a lot um obviously it's it's fueling your workout pepsi as well another weakness um yeah and Well, not really a bad habit, like, but I know I've been bad in the past at, like, trying to keep pushing through stuff when I know I need to back off.

1:03:08It's like injuries or just feeling tired. Just like stubborn. Yeah, yeah, very stubborn. And then, final question. If there's something that you could tell your younger self, what would it be? Oh, that's a good question. um I think probably just to like keep at it and be persistent and enjoy it all because if I'd given up when I thought initially that I'd run out like I wouldn't be getting a pro contract which was my goal for so many years then I wouldn't be here right now um and actually like I still can't believe that this is my life right now like I'm so lucky I'm so happy and yeah just like stick at it and enjoy the process I think if you don't enjoy I love training like it's always my favorite time of the day I love pushing myself and I think you have to learn to enjoy that feeling um but enjoy the process and then it means you can enjoy competing and actually if you go into a competition there's so many things actually I would say to myself um but like enjoy competing I really struggled with nerves growing up like the number of times my parents said actually you don't want you racing anymore like we can't I was I would get so nervous even park runs like because I'd go against my brother and I would pay my brother not to beat me like I'd pay him actual money or I'd given my iPod touch for a week or whatever it was like I did not want him to beat me so so competitive and before any race I wouldn't talk for about three days like I was horrible and I don't know how my parents felt I was really bad and I don't get like that anymore but I've had to work with quite a few sports psychologists over the years um and I still get really nervous um but but I think with high rocks so with running I still struggle a lot with nerves with high rocks actually i just i just enjoy it i get excited to race and i think that's the big difference so i think big get excited to race like enjoy being there it's a privilege and it's fun and enjoy the process and just stick at it like who knows what's going to happen and yeah enjoy it and always have at least a pint of milk after every exercise yeah i love that thank you for today saskia thank you so much for having me