Clayton Young - #004

0:00Jake Dearden: Talking about podcasts actually, just before we get into it, is there any podcasts like you watch?

0:11Clayton Young: I'm mostly in the running space, so I'll do Des and Kara Linden. Not Des and Kara Linden, Kara and Des Linden. They have a good pulse on it. I love the Coffee Club podcast as well. I don't know if you're from North End, but they're part of the On Athletics Club, and they're in Boulder. And they, yeah, three professional athletes, two from Australia, one from New Zealand. And they just are themselves on the pod, and that's really fun. And they know the nuance of professional running as well as actual running. And so they are really good at talking about the nuances of what is the latest thing that people are talking about in the sport.

0:59Clayton Young: Those are probably my biggest two. And then... Do you try and keep it running focused? Or do you have any that's crazy out there? Do you know what you wouldn't expect you to listen to? Yeah, I do do a finance podcast. Okay. Because as someone that's self-employed, that's always trying to make your dollars go further. Like I'm always looking at ways to, um, and, and also like being self-employed, like I'm in charge of my retirement, like for myself and for my family. And so I do listen to like a financial podcast to like make sure that I'm investing correctly and just in a safe way. So that way, you know, I have no 401k waiting for me and I have no like trust funds.

1:37Clayton Young: So it's like, I gotta make sure. And, you know, as you know, like we're only athletes for so long and hopefully I become a voice in the sport for a long period of time. but ultimately who knows like with this injury like I think I'm going to get better and I think I'm going to be fine but in five ten years I don't know if I'm going to be able to compete at a high level and so I got to prepare for the future so I look into a little bit of finance podcast as well

2:02Jake Dearden: talking about your injury we can start off with that actually yeah how how did that first come about and secondly like how have you found it being injured because this is oh yeah pretty well it's been pretty serious obviously yeah yeah I think I'm

2:21Clayton Young: finally accepting the reality that this is maybe the worst in terms of longest injury that I've had in my entire career uh all the way from you know high school till now and And it's a hard reality to accept, to be honest. And I often talk about how I go through the stages of grief multiple times. Like, I feel like I get all excited and I get all motivated. I do my rehab, rehab. I meet with a doctor. Like, I see light at the end of the tunnel. And then I'll go through this plan and this process. And then all of a sudden, like, I'm back to square one. And, you know, then I'm angry. And then I'm sad.

2:57Clayton Young: And then I'm frustrated. And then I'm, like, feeling all of these emotions. and then I'll, okay, come back to reality, kind of get a new baseline of, okay, where the injury is at and start from the bottom again. And I've probably been through that cycle eight times, which is really, really tough. And it's kind of funny because like the first four weeks, you're kind of in this stage of denial, right? You're like, I'm not really injured that seriously. I can keep training through, you know, I can keep getting ready for whatever event I have next. And at that time, I was getting ready for the Valencia Marathon, and I was just like so excited to get after it there because it was like kind of this goal that I'd sent a long ways out.

3:42Clayton Young: Essentially, you know, I was going to go race the world championships and, you know, hopefully get on the podium. And I ended up taking ninth, which was kind of like this bittersweet. But I was like, it's OK, because the other half of the plan was, you know, Connor Mance, my teammate, was going to set the American record in Chicago. and then I was going to set the American record in Valencia and that was the plan and so to for it to kind of not go to plan was frustrating I mean it's not surprising as an athlete like we always have to adapt and you know goals are really only there to motivate and I've I've definitely learned that I shouldn't get disappointed when I don't hit my goals but man And that was a big one that's been on my radar for a long time.

4:29And the injury itself, what have the doctors diagnosed it as?

4:34Clayton Young: Yeah, so initially we thought it was just a really, really bad inflammation of the posterior tibia tendon. So posterior tibia tendonitis and, you know, my ankle would swell, you know, double in size after hard sessions, especially in super shoes. and as we kind of continue to kind of dive into it more after a couple more injury cycles we noticed that the the ankle joint was playing a lot into it so like the tailor navicular joint and and the navicular cuneiform joint can just get really swollen and aggravated and so now what we think is happening is the joint gets really angry essentially and then I start to compensate with the tailor or with the posterior tibia and and so then it both of them just get really, really bad.

5:23Clayton Young: So we've, we've done it all. I mean, we've, we've done, you know, half a dozen different types of shockwave, um, from really cheap end to, you know, the most expensive shockwave equipment you can find in the United States to the state of Utah. And, uh, you know, I've flown to different doctors and had a PRP shot and it was hard because initially I was really trying to

5:51Clayton Young: not do too much because I wanted to still compete at Valencia right and when you do some of these procedures to get healthy you have to take a week off of training or two weeks off of training and I was just so invested in running fast at Valencia that I was like no we're gonna we're gonna rehab our way through this like we're gonna I'm gonna train alongside this injury instead of let it define kind of where I'm at um and not have to take time off but then about halfway through this process essentially you know five to six weeks into the injury I I I had to admit to myself that essentially like Valencia's off the table I just need to get healthy and that's the number

6:35Jake Dearden: one priority what did that feel like when you you admitted to yourself that you can no longer do Valencia was it a sigh of relief that was like building up because inevitably you probably knew

6:51Clayton Young: it or was it like I am so gutted or was it both yeah yeah you're an athlete I can tell like we've all been there right as there was you know we pushed it probably two three weeks past

7:08Clayton Young: maybe what would I should have called it off sooner but there's just like that little bit of hope in me and you just you kind of get in this mode of like self-denial and where you're lying maybe to yourself and but like everybody you know I am so open and so what that invites is so many people asking me like how's training going how's the injury going how's your fitness for Valencia and you know the race directors following up sponsors are following up and you're just like it's pressure yeah you're you you're trying to paint reality for them but in the most positive light and so to finally just admit like okay it's off and what's I think you realize um maybe for better for worse one um people are so supportive like they they all they want to do is they just want to see you healthy right and so like even though i i feel like this incredible weight especially with like these race directors that i've essentially negotiated with to be on that start line and like they vouched for me and and then i'm having to say hey i can't do it Like I, like I have this deep amount of like, I'm sorry, essentially, like, I'm sorry, I'm not going to make it.

8:27Clayton Young: And to see their response, like I know it's part of the game. And they see a lot of athletes that end up not getting on the start line. But I don't know, I still take it very seriously. And like personally, because, yeah, I don't I don't want to be the athlete that cries wolf too many times. Like I don't want to. I don't want to be the one that can you know make these big goals and big dreams and like

8:49Jake Dearden: make all this hype and then just say yeah just kidding yeah no I completely do know some people if you do that too too many times yeah people can say oh you you're just talking the talk so you attract sponsors so you attract the you know the fans and then they start to see through it after you do it the boy who cried wolf is a perfect example you do it three times and then people are like i don't believe this guy anymore yeah uh and i understand that from just the insecurity of you think if i don't race sponsor is going to drop me yeah yeah i'm not going to be relevant i'm not and i know we shouldn't care about relevancy but at the end of the day when you you are going to yeah and it's your job it's your job if you're you know if people aren't talking about you then you're not selling stuff for the brands that you're working with and then you're not going to get paid and then like you say you've got a huge pressure on that because you're not just supporting yourself you're supporting your family and it can be tough so yeah i completely understand yeah yeah and i'll almost even say that like

10:01Clayton Young: one thing i did realize is yeah those sponsors they do care but one thing that has been nice is as you know as i've been able to tell the story through content the highs and the lows and the injuries like you you realize that you can still provide value beyond even more value yeah people

10:24Jake Dearden: get injured all the time the amount of effort you go to for injury prevention the everyday person probably isn't going to go to the extent they're not going to have access to the latest shot weight when they do get injured or whatever it is so these guys are going to get injured so seeing that you're relatable and you get injured as well and you go through these tough times like almost makes it yeah i love clayton for this yeah yeah but it's like it's hard to remember that

10:54Clayton Young: right you think you think it and i guess the other hard thing that like we're still trying to figure out it i mean it's not all about content like as as people know like i've been very open and honest about this whole process and throughout my whole career. But then it's also remembering that people are not only going to follow you through the high moments and the races and those buildups, but now we're trying to figure out, okay, do people, like, I guess I fall into this trap. Like, are people really going to follow if I share a video about my injury and my rehab and, like, the boring, mundane stuff, like me on a boost treadmill for 20 hours a week?

11:27Clayton Young: like how much how much can we really show that without like uh boring people yeah for sure yeah

11:35Jake Dearden: i think you almost open up this new audience though the the audience that are suffering an injury yeah because there's going to be people that are watching that uh in the best shape of their life and yes they might not find that appealing when you're talking about injuries constantly but the people that are injured they can relate even more and like i say it's easy me saying this to you now yeah because i'm not injured but i've been in the exact same position to you and i'm like yeah like it's it's the worst thing ever um but for me personally always looking back at injuries there's almost a little bit of a blessing because you you learn so much and it allows you to take yourself out of the intense training mentality and you kind of look at the bigger picture is my question to you would be are there any blessings that have come out of you being

12:32Clayton Young: injured yeah I think you're not an athlete if you're not looking at like the positives or the blessings that are coming from it um yeah I think the first thing is like realizing how supportive of your community is and how like they're there through the highs and the lows right they they do care and and that's really special both both like yeah family my wife Ashley coaches athletic trainers like like so many people are reaching out and just saying hey I've had this injury this is what I did or I'll get random emails that are just like essentially fan mail that are just like hey like we see what you're going through or even just when I post the most you know dismal lame activity on Strava people are just like stoked about the fact that I'm like trying and trying to get out there and run and and that's like really inspiring for me because it can be really easy to get like self-centered and self-focused and think it like what was me and it's yeah nobody cares or I don't know I find myself to be fairly intrinsically motivated and like pretty independent but then it's through this process that I realized no like I I do care a little bit about the community around me and how they support me and it does mean a lot to me when when somebody does reach out and kind of gives me some love so I think that's a big thing and then from a physical side point, like I should say this, like I have had problems with my left foot since like 2017 and we've, for the longest time I just kind of ignored that pain.

14:08Clayton Young: It was essentially like an abutment between my cuneiform and navicular bone, navicular bone for those nerds out there that care, but that injury used to kind of cause me a lot of pain throughout my injury, my like I guess my builds and my cycles and and I just had to make sure that I was always pronating through that foot and making sure that I wasn't compensating anywhere and what this injury has forced me to do is to like really look into that to look into that abutment and like all of those

14:43Jake Dearden: joints within the foot bone so now you're probably an expert yeah like yeah how can we like solve

14:49Clayton Young: this problem so that way it doesn't become like this is finally how it's showing how it's manifesting like this this essentially this injury that i've buried for a long time um and you know this year is important but what's really important is the 2028 olympics for me right la 2028 and so catching this now getting it right understanding my body rehabbing through it um so that way this doesn't happen right before the Olympic Games or the Olympic trials, in a way, is a blessing. So that's, I think, of the community, and I think of just everything I'm learning about myself that's going to make me a better athlete.

15:31Clayton Young: It's hard to realize in the moment, like, yes, I've given up fitness and strength, but hopefully what I'm learning is just going to add and double down on that fitness and strength. And I think there's also a deeper sense of gratitude for health. Like the last time I was really injured to this level was in 2023. I had knee surgery on my left knee and I came back from that injury just so hungry.

15:57Jake Dearden: Did it light a fire?

15:58Clayton Young: Oh, just like, and you just learn to appreciate literally, like it sounds dumb, but like every mile, every meter, every run and you like crave it. and expectations are off, right? Because you've hit the rock bottom and so you can only go up from there. And so every run ends up fueling this flywheel that just like starts spinning at an unreal rate. And that's what really like essentially sent me on this trajectory of these last two years. And there was a moment after I got injured and I was gonna miss Valencia that I reflected back. I reflected back and I finally did the math And I was like, wow, when I look back, I've actually ran six marathons in a two year span.

16:43Clayton Young: Like I went from.

16:45Jake Dearden: That's crazy. Considering the buildup and how much effort you put into every single one of those, like six marathons in two years is insane.

16:55Clayton Young: Yeah. Yeah. And that was in like high level marathons too, right? Like that's world championships. That's Olympic games. That's Chicago. That's New York. That's Boston. and like when you think about like those like I performed I was top 10 in all of those races I PR'd and almost like I guess my trajectory was better on each one and anyway I don't know if I would have realized that I don't know if I would have realized that if I didn't get injured right I wouldn't have seen how good it's been well I'm excited for round two of

17:27Jake Dearden: that after you overcome that injury you get that fire and like you say right now is the best time that you could have got this injury because the main goal is the 2028 olympics yeah so the fact that you can look forward to that and you're at rock bottom so when you do start getting out and you're doing miles every that progression is just so nice and you see your fitness like evolving almost i know you've been maintaining your fitness like we've got to kind of appreciate 20 hours you know running yeah indoors with the the zero gravity what's it called yeah we call it a boost treadmill yeah anti-gravity treadmill there's a lot of different brands that is hardcore that is the people that is the thing that people don't see yeah the amount of work i was actually going to ask do you have more time to spend with loved ones now that you're injured and have you like appreciated that obviously you said that you've you've got a beautiful family you've got a daughter it's actually her birthday today so happy birthday yeah happy birthday to lucy yeah happy birthday lucy but uh have you been able to spend more time with them whilst you've been injured it's you know

18:37Clayton Young: it's an interesting paradox like there is this moment initially after your injury where you're like okay like i now have like freedom in my time and flexibility like you think that and then honestly the rehab takes up so much time she takes up even more than training would yeah because now instead of getting out the door in like five or ten minutes with it takes me like it takes me like 30 40 minutes just to go through all like my prehab exercises and then and then it like then I'm having to drive in to go to the cross training equipment right whether that's at BYU or somewhere else and then I'm having to like rehab afterwards and then like you're trying to maintain fitness so you're like you're wanting to make sure that your sleep's on point and your nutrition's on point.

19:20Clayton Young: And like that, like those are things that I focused on while I was an athlete, like in not injured, I should say, but like, there's just this added measure of detail essentially. And then you're meeting with doctors and everyone has their opinions and you're trying to, yeah, it's like a false reality. I will say that there's been two times in this injury where I have been able to, like, for example, I got a PRP shot and then I had to take three days, four days off And no cross-training, like very minimal movement. And so, yeah, those two or three, four days, I do get to savor a little bit. But other than that, it's been more time.

19:58Clayton Young: And it's a little bit harder when you're doing it all by yourself. Like I'm lucky to have training partners and teammates and coaches that, you know, we're meeting at 8 a.m. practice, you know, every day. But when you're injured, you know, it's up to you to maintain that accountability. and sometimes I'm just like what's the point like I'm sleeping in like I love that and

20:21Jake Dearden: sleeping in like you're also thinking oh this will help my recovery yes to an extent but uh one thing that I found when I was injured was just making sure my my personal trainer or whoever like I actually relied on them more yeah just to bring that positivity to the session totally yes she might not be doing much because it is really, really boring mobility stuff, prehab stuff, but just having someone to have a conversation with while she's going through that stuff and keeping the energy high, you know, we could be talking about what, you know, what he's going through or what, you know, just things that we, you know, it keeps you accountable.

21:04Jake Dearden: You turn up every day and you go in to do it because you've one paid for that session, but two, like, and that's, that's the thing. Like it's, it's so true it's a cost but like if that keeps you accountable like for me that was like one of the best things and for him to see the progress as well and because sometimes it's hard you can't see the progress and it might be the slightest thing like your hips might be moving just a little bit freer or your ankle joint might be a little bit freer when you do a front foot elevated split squat for example and you your knee over toe is a little bit more free one day but you might not see that you might just think oh this is the same as it was yesterday and but having an external opinion looking in they can see that you're improving and you're on the right track yeah rather than you know just thinking in your own head oh this isn't working let's just not do it it's so true it's so easy to spiral no it's cool so i want to take it a little bit back yeah i want to talk about a little bit about your story and when you realized you had this talent of running when was that moment where you was like i can take i can pursue this and this can be my career

22:23Clayton Young: yeah i think as a runner

22:28Clayton Young: you um it's by degrees right it really you know early on I just was like oh well I want to run fast and this is fun and then it's like oh I want to make the JV team and then it's like oh I want to make the varsity team and then oh I want to go to college and then I want to go to a good college and then I want to make it to regionals and nationals and uh like every goal came step by step. It wasn't like, yeah, there was the dream maybe that I could be an Olympian one day that every kid has, but it...

23:01Jake Dearden: When was that dream? When did you think about that dream?

23:05Clayton Young: I think the first time I ever was like, oh, this is the Olympic games and I want to be part of it was actually in 2002 here in Utah. The Olympic games were here in Utah. I was actually didn't live here. I was living in Washington. And I remember being in Washington and watching Apollo Ono, a speed skater, you know, there was a big crash in the race and he gets to his feet and it's in the last turn, he gets to his feet and he essentially dives across the line for silver and like my second grade brain will forever remember that moment. Like watching that, like that's my first Olympic experience and then that's when the Olympics were like, oh that's a reality and then it wasn't until, you know, later as a runner that I got to actually like meet some of these olympians like these dreams at these national meets um you know these brands would bring in these professional athletes and we got to meet them and get their signatures and

23:57Jake Dearden: that was really cool for me how old were you at the time for this that was through high school

24:01Clayton Young: like these high school ages and it's really funny because some of those athletes that i met like abdi abdiraman and dayton ritz and hein like these big time marathoners uh you know obvi was a five time Olympian, Dathan probably three time. These were guys that I essentially like

24:25Clayton Young: knew as a high schooler. And then as I eventually became a pro, I actually ended up racing them. And so it was kind of like this weird thing where like I'd always looked up to these guys and then I became a professional runner. And I was, you know, at the Olympic trials racing, and Racing Day Thin Ritz and Hein and Abdi. And like these are guys that I have, you know, their signatures on my walls for years and years and years through high school years. But like when did it become a reality in terms of like as a pro? I think my senior year of college, you know, that's when things really started to click and I kind of doubled down on some things.

25:03Clayton Young: And there was something with the mindset essentially that coupled with an accumulation of a lot of training that, you know, in the NCAA in indoors, I essentially kind of popped off and ended up setting the school record in the NCAA, in the 5K.

25:25Jake Dearden: So is that the distance that you kind of pursued? Yeah, I was a 5K, 10K guy. From early on though?

25:33Clayton Young: Yeah, I was always more of a distance guy.

25:35Jake Dearden: Yeah, yeah. And I'll say this, like, you know, in indoors, you can only run up to 5K.

25:44Clayton Young: And so once I did really well in the 5K that indoor season, I set the school record. And then I think I was third at the NCAA, like, national level. It was then like, oh, okay, what can I do outdoors in the 10K? And that's when things really became a reality. But even then, like running is such a fickle sport and there's not a lot of athletes that have the opportunity to go pro. And so even then, like I maybe wished that I could go pro, but it wasn't until I won the NCAA 10K that like it was like, oh, like that was a moment. I can now maybe reconsider my mechanical engineering degree and and go pro if I if I want.

26:22Jake Dearden: And did, at this point, did you have sponsors reaching out to you when you won or was that further down the line?

26:30Clayton Young: Yeah, I mean, this is a time before NIL and like before big brands could invest into college athletics. You know, maybe that dates me a little bit. But yeah, it was, there was no such thing. Like you couldn't even, it wasn't even possible. And so it wasn't until after I even, you know, I talked to one agent before I won the NCAA 10K. and then I talked to a couple others afterwards before deciding which agent to go with. But yeah, we didn't get into brand talks until after I'd won.

27:00Jake Dearden: Interesting. And then after then, how did you transition from the 10K to the marathon? Yeah, so... And that's kind of like a natural progression for most runners, in my opinion. You start shorter and then you build up and up and up.

27:17Clayton Young: Yeah. Yeah. Most athletes do move up in distance as they get older. And it's like a matter of time for better, for worse, to be honest. I don't know if I could go back and I could stay like a miler and be as competitive as I am.

27:28Jake Dearden: Like I would take it. Right. I think there's a quote. I don't know who said it, but they were like, uh, everyone, every runner dreams to be a 400 meter champion. But they're not fast enough. So they just move up and up and up until it gets to the marathon, maybe ultra distance. And that's getting more popular, but that's how it kind of goes. Do you agree with that? Totally.

27:49Clayton Young: Yeah, I think, yeah, you run the distance. You don't run a step further than you have to. I love that. But at the same time, like, I was kind of lucky. Like, my college coach is at I-Stone, and he's my current coach. And he was a two-time Olympic marathoner. And so knowing him and what he did, and he kind of, like, talked about the marathon in this mystical, like, the marathon way. way right and so as a college athlete like you're just like yeah we're all gonna be marathoners like he kind of sold it to us in a way and so when I went pro it was it wasn't a matter of if it was like when like and and we'd seen you know the longer distance work that I did like my long runs and obviously the 10k was my best event and so okay if the longer stuff is is treating me well what happens when we get to half marathon and marathon.

28:43Jake Dearden: And when you was in college and this was happening, how many people did you train with? Like how many guys were there on your team that were kind of at your level at that time? And maybe not at your level where they're winning the 10k, but at your level with like, you could see potential in them.

29:02Clayton Young: Yeah. Yeah. I, this is what's actually pretty amazing about that year. So at the regional level, there are 48 athletes that qualify by time. So take the western United States, western half United States, the top 48 times go to regionals. And of those 48, we then all race in one big race in the 10k. There's no heats. It's just one 10k.

29:29Jake Dearden: And that's on the track?

29:30Clayton Young: On the track. No way.

29:31Jake Dearden: 48 athletes.

29:32Clayton Young: 48 athletes 25 laps it's unreal like it like the ncla 10k regional race is like one of the wildest races you'll ever be a part of because it's it's jostling like you're just like fighting for position the whole time and here's the thing only 12 athletes make it to the national level so you have to be in the top 12 so that senior year when we were at the ncla 10k do you remember the qualifying time to get in um oh it was it's it's much faster now it's probably like probably like 2850 wow um yeah probably somewhere around there 29 flat it's usually right around there my freshman year when i made it it was much slower it was maybe a minute slower but by that year it had gotten a little bit faster that's when super shoes started to come out.

30:24Clayton Young: Not super spikes yet. But anyway, of the 48 athletes, my college, BYU, had 12 of the entries. We had a quarter of the field were athletes from BYU. And of those 12 athletes that were from BYU, six of us made it to nationals. So a quarter of us were in the field, half of us made it to nationals and so six of the 12 athletes that made it to nationals were from my college and and that was like that's a that's an NCAA record like that's like no no other university has had six athletes make it in one event to the national level do you think that push you and

31:12Jake Dearden: drove you to become better and stand out amongst them six or 12 athletes because I assume when you're training when you're here training there's 12 top guys as you know if you're having a bad day someone's someone's pulling you along totally and that's how like my question though would be what made you stand out what did you do different from them 12 athletes that that made it and qualified and then you could even say them six athletes that qualify for nationals what do you feel like you did different or did you just react to the training better or was it just look and you probably get asked that question and I don't want to offend you by saying was it look but uh I want to I want to know yeah if I could if I could take it back and think about

32:09Clayton Young: you know what why yeah why did i win the ncaa 10k because it is interesting like i had other teammates i remember sitting in the sauna this race was actually in austin texas where you just were it was hot and humid it was maybe 80 90 degrees and 100 percent humidity for the race at 9 p.m. like it was hot and um in a way we so we were doing all this sauna preparation and I remember sitting with some of my teammates in the sauna and and just having this conversation of like we don't know who it's going to be but we feel like one of us is going to win the title like one of us is going to do it and you know that speaks to like these athletes that were able to push me for sure so like why did I why did I end up on top I think I kind of had this underdog mentality you know I had a teammate that was second two years prior that you know had a lot of pressure it felt like he had to perform at a high high level um so the limelight wasn't on you it wasn't like I was a contender for sure like and people knew that but I just I I just found a way to kind of brush it off and then I think the other thing that I did really really good at that meet was so at the national meet, I qualified in the 5K and 10K.

33:29Clayton Young: The 10K is the first event, the first night, and then two nights later is the 5K. And in a way, the fact that I'd run the 10K and the 5K, I qualified for nationals the three years prior as well, just gave me so much more experience to handle the pressure at that meet. So you think about, you know, sophomore year, I raced the 10K and the 5K, I made it to nationals. That was like a feat in and of itself as a sophomore. I was like, man, I made it to national level. Well, it went okay. And then junior year, we kind of crashed and burned. And so senior year, like I had had all of that experience of year after year after year, and it finally culminated in this race.

34:10Clayton Young: But then I think the last thing that honestly, I did really, really well is, like I said, it was really hot and humid in Austin that year. And I run, I respond really, really well to the humidity relative to other athletes. Like obviously it slows us all down. It just slows me down less. And I had done like some really specific sauna protocol that really made a big difference. And I think, you know, everyone out there was grabbing cups of water and like, you could just see it on their faces. For some reason, I was the one athlete that didn't grab one cup of water the whole race and I like it just came all it all came together and I I kind of had this mentality as well throughout that whole season you know I had teammates and I had other people where their kick was what how do I say this at the NCAA level like if you don't have a kick you're not gonna make it like it it's these wind-up races especially in these hot and humid races where you just have to be able to close so fast and I wasn't known for my kick and so all year I just kept telling myself I'm a kicker I'm a kicker I'm a kicker like and I worked on it specifically from a mental side and a physical side like I was closing you know sessions in practice super hard and I was like trying to close with teammates was there like a specific session

35:28Jake Dearden: that you do or would it be just like a specific procedure you do after a track session where you you'd focus on the kick yeah i think or did you do sprint training yeah there were there was quite a bit of like um closing every interval session like okay we're going to do kick simulation so

35:47Clayton Young: 250 to go 300 to go and like i'd kind of have these things where you know get me on the last lap of the track in any of my interval sessions and i'd be like okay i i kind of had this thing where i'd count down from five so five four three two one and i just and how far do you obviously it depends on the distance but how far do you generally kick like especially like if it's 5 or 10k on the track yeah it's usually you can start to squeeze as much as a k out but like for me like a kick is you know max is 300 300 and and so you go back watch that race i move with 400 to go someone matches me with 300 to go we we kick to the 200 meter mark because i know that i have to hold him on the outside we get to the the curve and i'm holding him off holding him off holding him off and then he has to run the extra distance and and then i i luckily hang on the last hundred meters and i pull away from him and and so it's just it's replicating that in practice over and over and over again it's okay you know we're doing three by mile today on the track yeah i'm going to be very conservative and measured with those first couple miles but that last mile like 400 to go like I gotta find a gear and I'm gonna go five four three two one gear five four three two one another gear five four three two one where's the other gear like you gotta try to find those gears and and find uh and and just tell yourself I'm a kicker I'm a kicker and I I was really lucky that I had teammates to practice kicking against in practice too

37:16Jake Dearden: did you did you always talk about before saying like this is what we need to do as a team or were you were you being smart about it where you're you're getting someone just to run that last 400 like they're fresh and they're running and you just have to keep up with them and they're running i don't know what what pace you're running that that last 400 in yeah how many how many seconds

37:38Clayton Young: roughly are you trying to weigh in yeah i ended up closing the ncw10k in 55 seconds 55 so 340 mile that's insane so yeah like after 24 laps to pull out a 55 second lap like it was it was unreal i don't think i could do that fresh yeah i don't know if i could either right now to be well especially with the injury uh it was moving yeah yeah i feel like in practice though there's kind of like this unspoken agreement like either like okay you're going in the last interval and you're all kind of like you're measuring everybody up like how you feeling how you feeling how you feeling and usually whoever's feeling the best um ends up leading the last interval but then it's like okay 400 to go there's maybe a little bit of a fun you could say like that's when people try to test their kicks and and play tactics and so if you were the one that was feeling fresh you got to figure out okay how we have all these you know teammates that have been sitting on you and they're going to want to make their moves how am i gonna it becomes a tactical game as much it is and it's fun and i think as long as there's expectations to not like pull a hammy the last hundred meters i think it's good and you know some athletes are just getting through the workout and

38:48Jake Dearden: some just want to practice that kick you mentioned heat training within all that whether it was sauna training back then was this kind of cutting edge technology where were you getting your information from because heat training is the rage at the moment everyone's obsessing about it i was listening to someone a triathlete actually on youtube and they were talking that it's nonsense and it doesn't work whereas you see and it's just like a fad but you see so many people doing it me personally i think it's it's gold it's golden i think it's incredible especially if you're not one of these people that has access to going to altitude yeah and i just want your opinion on it and like what was it like you know preparing it and maybe the reason you came first was because you stayed in the sauna a little bit more and you you valued it a little bit more so like on the day you was acclimatized and you was just smarter with your preparation for that race yeah yeah

39:51Clayton Young: heat training is fascinating i feel like back in 2019 when we first kind of really started doing it you know it's not like chat gbt did it and you're right like nobody else was really doing it it was just the fact that oh the national meet is in austin texas this year and we got to get ready for it and you know i'd heard stories and like legends of you know my coach at eyestone uh like taking a stationary bike, putting it in the sauna and biking for 30 minutes in, in the sauna and, and just thinking like, oh, okay. Like this is how he got ready for his Austin, Texas NCAA championship, you know, 30 years ago or whatever.

40:28Clayton Young: But for me, um, I, I did, you know, I have this engineering background, right? I'm a mechanical engineer. I'm kind of a nerd. And so like peer reviewed research was where I, I, I got diving and, and big shout out to one of my teammates, Rory Linkletter. He also had done some research and kind of sent it around to us as athletes as we were getting ready for Austin, Texas. And it was like, okay, like, you know, if you read through this one, you know, research article, not only does it say you'll be able to perform better in the heat and humidity, but like the immunity, the health benefits, the VO2 uptake, like the, the like you know the changes to your hemoglobin and hematocrit and you knew about this oh yeah oh yeah and it was interesting to see like what it would target right like i feel like there's um you can target different things in the sauna like you can target recovery and like feel good and sleep and being able to like maximize that side of of the sauna but then there's like a whole performance side of the sauna where if you really do go in right after your run and you go in slightly dehydrated and you don't drink water and you push your body to like you know 30 35 minutes at least in the sauna that i use like you'll put yourself in such a deficit in such a hole that your body's like okay we got to change something and so then like your plasma is going through the roof you then end up having to create more red blood cells you end up creating these heat shock proteins.

41:59Clayton Young: There's just like so many things that you can target. And so, you know, people often ask me, well, how long do you stay in the sauna? And I will say, well, what are you targeting? Like, are you targeting performance or are you targeting recovery? And I think that changes your protocol. But I definitely believe in it and think that it makes a big difference. You know, if I had to choose between an ice bath and a sauna, I'm sauna, hands down. Like I don't remember the last time I've been in an ice bath. And, you know, I've had brands reach out to me saying hey we want to send you a cold tub and I'm like show me the research and yes there is some research for like pre-workout and like but like from a performance standpoint and a recovery standpoint I don't think there's a better tool than sauna yeah I've started uh

42:43Jake Dearden: stepping away from the the ice and the cold yeah as well it can the studies that I've seen it can actually mess up your heat adaptation as well yeah um with the heat training last question just because i'm a nerd yeah yeah what do you think is more beneficial the the passive straight after a session in the sauna or do you prefer active if you was to choose one or another would it be active heat training where you're doing the cross trainer you're doing the bike you may be running in a sauna suit or a sweatsuit and you've got layers on or just going out doing your session performing and then after the session you're then jumping in the sauna or do you like to do both

43:28Clayton Young: great question i mean it is different like passive there's nothing how do i say it's really really hard to simulate you know what tokyo in september at 80 degrees and 100 humidity feels like in a sauna right like they're it's different than just sitting there and actually like having to run through it and so i would i would say if i had to choose i would choose sauna like just because it's a lot more consistent but i feel like you know that's just because i have more experience with it like it i've only primarily used sauna the first time I started using you know active heat training was before the Paris Olympics and you know Paris Olympics went well and the world championships went well and I think that like my active training did take a role in that like my active heat training but I feel like you can do most of it with it's just easier and um with with sauna instead of

44:31Jake Dearden: for sure and it's it's more hygienic like who wants to be sweating put all the floor especially if you're in a gym with other people yeah you know your toilet suit starts sweat smelling and like you're just like it's and then what you you're trying to wipe everything and you're just sweating more and more because it takes about 15 to 20 minutes to stop sweating after you've done the yeah it's very tough so true but uh yeah sometimes that like you say it's it's nice and like you say you're getting the recovery benefit of sitting in a sauna it's not added volume because you guys are running so many miles yeah if you've then got to do so the protocol that i use is uh five times a week active and it's like 45 to 50 minutes and i do it on the bike yep but that's extra volume of exercise and you've got to think that that might be beneficial but it also might be taken away from the recovery from the running yeah so it's an extra five hours a week on top of your training sometimes you're overdoing it and you're over training by doing

45:30Clayton Young: that i agree and i guess and you have to be really careful about you know those active heat sessions like you want to keep your best sessions quality yeah so there's no point in in coupling like they a lot of the protocol from the u.s olympic committee will say hey like you know shed all the layers keep your like interval sessions your hard sessions your long conditions, but then maybe your supplemental mileage, you know, your, your bike riding, whatever, that's when you want to do the heat training. So that way you're not taking away from the physiological adaptations that you're getting in your heart sessions, right?

46:07Clayton Young: You want those to be, you want to be moving fast and efficient and like going the distance and you don't want heat inhibiting that. You need those adaptations essentially physiologically more from like a muscle tendon cardiovascular than just heat yeah yeah i like that i like that way

46:25Jake Dearden: of thinking about it moving on to your training yeah and i want to talk about like your training when you're not injured when you're preparing for a marathon what is a typical week looking like yeah and i know it will be different but do you have like uh most people i speak to especially from like a running background like tuesday thursday saturday days and everything else is

46:52Clayton Young: easier what what's it like for you and does it change yeah as a marathoner i'm def i'm still on a seven-day cycle i think a lot of marathon a lot of marathoners end up moving to like a nine day or even like a what 11 or 14 day cycle but because um we're heavily associated still with the college team here and they're on a seven-day cycle it just makes sense for us to also be on a seven-day cycle and then also from like a religious standpoint like I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and like Sunday for me yes is a day of rest but it's also a day of church and so for me like having that day off is really important even beyond training so it's it's just nice to stay on a seven-day cycle for me personally I love that.

47:42Clayton Young: So, yeah, when I look at like what my what those other six days look like, you know, Monday, Wednesday, Friday are easy days. And usually I try to get a little bit more mileage on Monday because it's the start of the week. I'm coming fresh off of no training on Sunday. And so I'll do a little bit more. And that's usually like a 12 miler in the morning and a six to seven, five to seven miles in the afternoon. and usually then I'll do maybe some like strides you know you're coming off a day where you haven't trained and so you need some strides to maybe get the engine turning so that way you're not so stiff on Tuesday so I'll do some strides and some hurdle mobility drills strides how many we

48:24Jake Dearden: talking and what's the distance how does it differ yeah I think it's I would definitely

48:31Clayton Young: recommend more to feel but like something that I've been doing even since my high school days with my good coach, Timo Mostert, is he would do, we would do strides where we would jog the turns, and then we would, you know, accelerate through the straights, and I know people that, like, accelerate right off the gun for, like, the full 100 meters, but for me, it's, like, I just like the mentality of every step is more powerful and faster, and so by the, you know, 70 meter mark, like, I'm at, I'm at top in speed, and maybe those last 30 meters, I'm, like, all out, but I like to progress into it and make sure things are feeling good before I really like find that next gear and I'll usually do you know two to three laps around the track so that ends up being anywhere from four to six strides on the on the straightaways and are you

49:16Jake Dearden: just finishing that long run at the track so it's super easy and yeah so you're going out on the road or wherever you like to the trails if you like to do your easy run and then you're just finishing up the track so it's super convenient it goes straight into those strides yeah i usually

49:32Clayton Young: it's towards the end of my run and you know sometimes i'll have to like do my strides around the track and then jog the last half mile to the school right um but other than that do you

49:43Jake Dearden: recommend that like not finishing with strides because obviously that can build up lactate in your legs would you like to do that like mid mid of session of that kind of like second long run of the day or that second easy run of the day or would it be at the back end of the session yeah

49:59Clayton Young: all the start i like to put it towards the end simply especially in college when i was on the track a lot um there was something about kicking and practicing that turnover on tired legs right like you have to find that gear after you've run 24 laps on the track you have to find it on the 25th and so for me there's something good about doing strides towards the end of the run but yeah I would recommend saving a little bit of mileage to kind of just make sure, like almost like a body check to make sure that things are loose and you're not tight the rest of the day, especially if you're hopping in a car right away.

50:37Clayton Young: I have the luxury of like, you know, you know, doing and, you know, walking around campus, going to the shower. Like I'm not I'm not commuting right away. Like I know a lot of people have to get going. Got more time.

50:50Jake Dearden: Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Okay, moving on to Tuesday. So this is going to be your first hard session. Are you doing a double hard day, single hard day? What's it like as a marathoner?

51:01Clayton Young: Yeah, for me, it's interesting. Like, I have kind of been able to see how trading has changed over the last 10 years. And, like, double thresholds didn't exist in my time in college. And, you know, they started to kind of exist through my time as a pro. and you know i've done a couple of double threshold sessions and i wish i could do more like i really actually do love it um but as a marathoner i think there's value in putting all of your hard volume essentially take the double threshold volume and put it in one session right there's something about just building that work capacity yeah like time on feet for one session and and really making sure you temper the legs for large amounts of volume you've got to you've

51:46Jake Dearden: got to work hard for just over two hours yeah yeah you've got to get used to that if you're Just letting it up into two one-hour hard sessions, like, yeah, that's great, but it's not specific to you.

51:56Clayton Young: Exactly. So, like, anything shorter than a marathon, I would, yeah, if you've got the time and the ability, double threshold obviously has shown great results. And there are times to do it maybe in a marathon build really early on when you're building fitness and you're still getting your marathon legs under you. But those later, like, eight weeks, the last eight weeks of a marathon build, I think, should primarily be all-in-one session. And so, yeah, Tuesday mornings, typically, if the weather's nice, you know, we like to go in the mornings to kind of get it done with. We'll be our hard volume sessions.

52:28Clayton Young: And then we'll immediately go from our workout to the weightlifting where we'll do.

52:35Jake Dearden: So you're doing strength training straight after this. And how long would that running training session be in the morning? Are you refueling after, like on the way to the gym, are you refueling? Yeah.

52:47Clayton Young: Yeah, it depends on the session, but like we're usually taking carbs throughout the session. Fueling is such a big part of marathoning now. Like I feel like it's the new frontier coupled with heat training and into terms of like what you can do to be better as a marathoner. And so fueling, you know, there used to be Tuesday, Thursday, like I used to never fuel on Tuesday, Thursday sessions, like during the session. And now it's like you have to be practicing that. And so, yeah, I'm getting maybe, you know, three, four hundred calories throughout my session. And, you know, what, 20 minutes warm up, you know, anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour of of like specific training.

53:27Clayton Young: And then, you know, another 20, 30 minute cool down.

53:30Jake Dearden: So you're on your feet for two hours. Yeah. Yeah. And then straight to the gym. And then straight to the gym. How are you feeling in that session? And is there a reason you're doing it? Yeah, the gym session. And how, like, are you, is there a reason you're doing it straight after and not giving yourself time to recover properly and go in with full energy? Yeah. Is that part of the marathon training and, like, thinking, like, we need to get used to doing long efforts and then finishing it with strength training?

54:02Clayton Young: Or is it just to get it out of the way and that's just routine that you've done for years and years? I think it's, you know, I do think that maybe there is something to be to look into for this idea of like doing weightlifting after a hard session to kind of continue to build this marathon fatigue idea. But the primary reason we do it is simply to keep our hard days hard and our easy days easy. You know, if I'm working out on Tuesday, lifting on Wednesday, am I going to really be recovered for that Thursday session? whereas instead if I can put all of my hard on one day and like couple that soreness essentially then I typically find that I can be recovered by Thursday and instead of like putting Thursday's workout in jeopardy and so that's kind of the mentality so there is definitely some fueling that happens like on my drive I'm like pounding food and I'm getting my protein and I'm like trying to get myself in the best state possible for that weightlifting session and I will say like our weightlifting sessions are like 30 minutes, sometimes an hour, but we're not like Jake weightlifting sessions, right?

55:09Clayton Young: Like we're, I'm a marathoner, like a pure marathon runner, right? So weightlifting is more so for running economy and injury prevention and yes, some muscle recruitment, but we're not, we're marathoners.

55:24Jake Dearden: I love that. I've actually changed my mindset around the gym. The gym is to build you up, in my opinion now. Whereas before, the gym was you've got to go in, you've got to break your body, so then it gets stronger. Whereas now, I'm leaving every session feeling better than when I came in. And it's almost building rather than, like you say, I don't want to leave a gym feeling absolutely trashed. Yes, there are some workouts that you need to do that, whether it's running workouts, whether it's conditioning sessions in the gym for high rocks. but uh like you've got sessions that break you down that you need to recover from but then most of the stuff in the gym should be building you up in my opinion and it should be priority most like muscle activation is everything functioning correctly totally are you moving right if you are stiff why are you stiff and figuring that out and then secondly injury prevention like you want to leave feeling symmetrical in my opinion especially for running if if one leg like your hip flex is really tight or your your quad sore or your one calf sore like address that in the gym and then hopefully when it comes to your next hard day there is no uneven balance because uh injuries do in my opinion injuries are building for a while yes there's one point where you get injured yeah but they do build and you're ignoring the signs in your head or maybe you might not even be aware of the signs in your head but they're there um so that's my like take and feel on it but uh my question would be to you with that so going straight to the gym obviously you're fueled and stuff like that but you are still probably a little bit fatigued why do you not rest say six hours and then go to the gym in the evening is it just because you don't want to be training all day and you want to get it over and done with so you have more time to recover yeah yeah i think there

57:25Clayton Young: is like a little bit of like let's get it all done like let's rip the band-aid off let's let's like let's just stack this now so that way i don't have to worry about it later you can you

57:35Jake Dearden: can actually chill out you can spend time with loved ones yeah there's yeah and most of the

57:40Clayton Young: times when we do our you know our afternoon sessions of like you know my easy five to seven miles or whatever you know those are from home like i don't have to go into the gym i don't have

57:50Jake Dearden: to go back to byu i don't have to so you try being in that professional setting just maximum once a

57:56Clayton Young: day yeah and then for sure yeah for sure and you know those are long days because then like right after you know this is where we've actually kind of been trying to reevaluate this to see if this really is ideal because then we'll go straight from the gym to the sauna oh so really you're

58:11Jake Dearden: talking you're talking three and a half hours with travel like if you if you are you know 10 minute drive like you're four hours of solid work yes at least at least yeah and then you you might have phone rolling before or after whatever yeah so yeah they become really long days like those

58:28Clayton Young: days and then you've got to run at night as well and then yeah another hour yes so yeah though yeah tuesday thursdays are especially when you're in the thick of marathon training they can become Like it's really, you know, wake up, train, eat, sleep. Like I'll nap and then I'll wake up and I'll do my double and that's it. That's the day. And then I'll eat, I'll tuck my girls into bed and then I'm out.

58:54Jake Dearden: That's insane. I didn't, genuinely, I didn't realize that was the amount of work that was in one block. Yeah. yeah and but that like you say it keeps the hard days hard and then you then have mentality oh tomorrow's gonna be easy yeah right and when you're struggling you think tomorrow's gonna be easy i can push through today yeah it's only it's only a day yeah there is something to be said like

59:20Clayton Young: okay yeah we are going into the sauna after a weightlifting session so is it as ideal one we're in a deficit calorically like are we really are we just should we be fueling sooner like more substantially like yeah we're putting down carbs we're in bars we're drinking protein but like should we be fueling and putting that sauna session somewhere else or that way the thing session somewhere else you know because yeah from 7 30 a.m to 1 p.m is a really long time to be just like going hard going at it um so moving on to wednesday another easy day yep yeah pretty standard day um i'll typically do double run day eat both easy yeah yeah and then strides again um yes we usually i try to do strides twice a week so sometimes if i'm like not really feeling it i'll push it to friday uh that strides and and hit mobility but i try to get it in wednesday so that way it can kind of feel a little bit of pop for Thursday.

1:00:25Clayton Young: Typically what ends up happening is Tuesday is like our threshold session, longer intervals, um, marathon simulation workouts and Thursdays are kind of more of our track workouts. So doing a little bit of strides on Wednesday will get me ready for that track. Like that speedier stuff on Thursday.

1:00:42Jake Dearden: And what's the importance of doing track whilst you training for the marathon? What's your opinion on that? Because obviously the marathon is going to be on the road yeah you see a lot of people now doing treadmill work yeah and doing thresholds on the treadmill but you're a big fan of the track and is that just because you've always been brought up like say you used to do track meets where you were doing 5 10k and that's what you know and that's what as well when you're with the group it's so much more fun on a track yeah yeah can't really go and do a treadmill session with with uh you know just other people so yeah

1:01:19Clayton Young: Yeah, I think it comes from, it's almost the way that Coach Eyestone trained back in the day. Like he was kind of a 10K athlete and he just found that there was always value and staying on the track throughout your whole career. I think it also comes down to this idea of, you know, if threshold is the floor and VO2 max or track workouts are your ceiling. Sometimes if you do so much threshold work, And you'll eventually run into the ceiling and you just you need to boost the VO2 max before you can raise the floor. Essentially, you need to raise the ceiling before you can raise the floor. And so staying on the track at least once a week, I think, helps you keep that ceiling really, really high.

1:02:10Clayton Young: And as.

1:02:12Jake Dearden: And this is going to be like a VO2 max session, like you're sending it on the track, you're typically you're pushing it. And that's probably because one, because you're in a group and you're all competitive. yeah but uh what what's a typical track session are you staying short are you staying you know you see some people and they're doing crazy volume on the track but i always got taught from a young age that you want to keep the volume on the track relatively lower but yeah yeah it's

1:02:42Clayton Young: definitely lower than our like our more threshold sessions but i think you know when we think about common track workouts i think of like um eight by eight hundred six to eight by eight hundred at like 5k pace uh maybe 10 starting at 10k pace and getting down to 5k pace and so we'll start at like 2 8 to 2 10 um and then we'll get down to like two flat so so that's for for me 6.4k

1:03:07Jake Dearden: uh on a track how what's that that's uh four four miles of actual volume so yeah so so four four miles of actual volume obviously you see people doing a lot more than that like do you and people would say probably oh you're running a marathon why are you only doing four miles of speed volume yeah and they probably don't understand the intensity of what you're doing but do you value that session better than say you know 12 by a k that's a traditional a traditional like marathon session on the track that totally you see some people do are you thinking you know eight by 800 is so much better than 12 by a K or yeah is this different like when I think of 12

1:03:51Clayton Young: by K on the track that's more at like half marathon down to 10k pace and it's only with 60 seconds rest right so it's it's something that's like you're right at that threshold zone you know you're doing it all day you're just like and you're you know for us we're usually we used to do a lot of our thousand meter repeat sessions actually on like grass and like some like a slower surface or even the road where but we have moved to the track more lately more so because coaches having to orchestrate you know the women and the men and different paces and different workouts steeple chasers and we'll usually do those in lane like eight or nine just so it's kind of got more of a threshold feel like it's not about ripping it on the track and um but yeah for us 12 by k is more of a threshold workout.

1:04:37Clayton Young: And while it's not a lot of volume, it's just, it's more of a more of aggressive threshold. It's that half marathon pace or even down to 10K that is a finer line. Yeah, and yeah, the eight by 800 is more like flush out. Let's rip it. Like, let's get some turnover and keep that ceiling really, really high.

1:04:59Jake Dearden: Is that the only session you're doing on a Thursday? Like hard session? is that yeah you're not pairing that up thinking oh i've only like with your warm-up cool down you might have run eight miles for that session yeah so are you extending your warm-ups and cool downs because you're only doing four miles within the session yeah we'll sometimes do a little bit longer uh warm-ups and cool downs just to get the volume in as marathon runners like if

1:05:26Clayton Young: i'm running if i'm going to run 120 miles a week like i have to try to be averaging close to 20 miles a day yeah and so if i'm only getting eight miles you know then we'll we'll try to extend to get maybe to 10 miles and then but that ends up meaning that my my afternoon run will end up being you know closer to seven or eight miles yeah um and then i'll make up some of that mile mileage on on the long run day yeah yeah i like that cool are you doing another strength session on that thursday yep big strength session by the way with your strength sessions like you said it's very

1:05:56Jake Dearden: running specific is it two lower body or full body sessions do you do much upper body training

1:06:02Clayton Young: at all really yeah there's there's a little bit of over body but not much it's mostly lower lower leg and core and core and um yeah we'll do like essentially two plyos we'll do one main lift um whether that's like back squat front squat um split squat um uh romanian uh single leg um and then from there it's kind of more auxiliary and like more injury prevention and you know you'll hit adductors abductors hamstring everything all the stabilizing yeah stabilizing

1:06:38Jake Dearden: cool cool and then friday another chill day another chill day what's saturday looking like

1:06:45Clayton Young: saturdays are long run day um and that's we'll typically try to to pick a route that is similar to the marathon we're training for so you know if we're training for something like boston we're on a hilly route and if we're training for something like chicago then we're on like pancake flat and uh yeah that's that's what our is it is it a progressive long run do you start out easy

1:07:08Jake Dearden: are you doing it all easy are you doing it all at marathon not marathon pace but uh close to marathon pace or is it like somewhere in between i think it's i think our group is a

1:07:18Clayton Young: little bit unique in the sense that a lot of marathoners will do simulations within their their, you know, their long run. And for us, like we'll keep in a pretty honest clip for the entire marathon, maybe even more than faster than most groups. And then we'll usually target anywhere from two to four, maybe even five miles at marathon pace down to half marathon pace towards the end. We call them pickups. So, you know, for example, if I was going for a 20 miler, I would do what you know 14 miles at you know a pretty aggressive clip what's your heart rate so that's a good point generally for like a marathon what's your heart rate sitting at or average for an entire marathon for a marathon I'll be I'll start at like 150 and get up to 180 okay 150 180 so these first 14 miles yeah it'll be anywhere from like 130 to 150 okay so it's not

1:08:16Jake Dearden: you're definitely not chilling you're definitely working for sure it's kind of difficult but

1:08:21Clayton Young: manageable yep yeah and then and then that pickup you know we'll start off at five four fifty per mile and then get down to you know four thirty really fast so it was you know

1:08:38Jake Dearden: 108 180 beats per minute like are you warming up and cooling down for this session because or are you kind of easing into the session and then you're cooling down is still part of that 20 miler so if you say you're going for a long run 20 miles the first two miles super super easy so you're kind of getting into it or you're doing a warm-up before that and then getting into it

1:08:58Clayton Young: yeah we will we'll progress into all of these and so we'll we'll do like a mile maybe warm-up and then at about a mile we'll get up to our pace where it you know for us that's typically about 540 per mile. And then we're, we're, we're there at 540 per mile for, you know, 14 miles and we'll, you know, it'll ebb and flow depending on, it's not as prescribed. It's a little bit more how we feel uphills, downhills, whatever it may be. But then we'll go straight into the pickup and the pickup's like, okay, we're, we're going at, we're at least hitting marathon pace, if not faster. And for us, that's like, like I said, 450 to, you know, getting down to sometimes the 430s.

1:09:38Clayton Young: um and we'll you know like i said we'll do that anywhere from two to four or five miles depending on the day and then we'll cool down usually a mile or two and we'll go back to that you know

1:09:47Jake Dearden: six flat 540 pace well so what's the environment like in the group have you got like your coach cycling along is the music playing is uh like do you try and make it as enjoyable as possible or is it just monotonous where like i assume you're at a pace where you can say a couple of words but you You can't say full conversations. Is it just you're just hearing footsteps or is it you're trying to make it as fun as possible and as enjoyable as possible?

1:10:16Clayton Young: Yeah, it's, you know, vibes have changed over the years. Like before our team was a lot smaller and I'd just kind of be going out and maybe have a, you know, a teammate or two. And, you know, we'd be carrying our gels or we'd stash bottles or, you know, we'd be doing loops so we could get our bottles. We've now our group has grown and we have a lot of support now. And, you know, our coach now comes out on Saturday. So Coach Eyestone will be out there on the bike. And we have a good friend, Todd Garner, that will come out. And he likes for us to call him our bottle boy. But he's big time. He's got a big boy job.

1:10:52Clayton Young: He's a CFO. He does much more than being our bottle boy. And then, yeah, our groups have grown to be massive. We kind of call it our community day, where if you can hang, you can come. how many people so yeah we've had as much as like you know 30 people 30 40 people that'll show up and like that are you running around the streets yeah we'll we'll be on the streets i mean there is is there quite a lot of locations around here where you can run and i'm just thinking about

1:11:22Jake Dearden: like a group of 30 people like with cars coming past and stuff like that obviously it's stringed along like i assume yeah but uh how are you managing that around the streets are you picking roads are there specific like routes that the coaches have like figured out beforehand or are you like today let's go somewhere new or is it everything is planned we've got like pretty much

1:11:44Clayton Young: three main routes we've got the murloc canal trail which is uh no roads like we're we're crossing roads and but it's you know a paved trail that's eight feet wide and and that one is nice except for in the summers it can get really crowded and when we're moving at the clip that we are like we seem to be always dodging bikers or joggers or walkers which is okay like they we've got to share the trail um but then the other big place we train is is called lake loop and and those are just kind of country roads a little bit but we still get quite a bit of traffic on some of those roads and so we just we just have to be careful and make sure just deal with it it's got a good shoulder though and there's a paved part of it that's got a trail and then when we do like boston marathon hill specific training we're more in these neighborhoods that have hills and and you're Just doing loops.

1:12:30Yeah, we're doing loops, and people are, luckily with neighborhoods, like a car can get around us, and we might take up a whole lane, but they can get around us, or we'll try to move over.

1:12:40Clayton Young: But, yeah, we are kind of a crew, and we've had the police come out and kind of tell us to get out of the way and to keep our cool. But, yeah, it's a good crew. like honestly by the by the time saturday hits i honestly feel dead from the week even though it should be the most important session i'm just like oh man like let's just get it done i would just want to get the box yeah but it's always nice to have the community there because usually there's some weekend warriors that'll help like pace it out the first you know 10 to 15 miles and then when the pickup hits like yeah we got to do our work and and we'll go off and and do

1:13:19Jake Dearden: our own thing as the pro runners but like it's not it's not like completely if you want to run you know 10 seconds per hour slower on that first 14 you do yeah yeah it's it's fun to catch up and

1:13:31Clayton Young: honestly a lot of it is alumni like people that old teammates right that have nine to five jobs

1:13:36Jake Dearden: yeah yeah that's cool that's a good time and then sunday is sunday like you mentioned a complete

1:13:42Clayton Young: rest day yeah yeah unless i'm like at a high stakes race like i i try not to choose races on Sundays too, to be honest. And in fact, I kind of lucked out in 2025. I don't think I had a single Sunday race because Boston was on a Monday and the world champs were on a Saturday. And so like, I kind of lucked out. That's nice. But by and large, I'm, yeah, I'm off.

1:14:06Jake Dearden: That's good. Is there an importance to say, for example, if your race is on a Saturday, is it the importance to do a specific session on a Saturday every week to kind of prepare you so your body knows that you go into war on that Saturday almost? Yeah, it's something that like... Or does it not really make a difference?

1:14:29Clayton Young: I know training groups like adjust for that. Like they will adjust so that way, you know, they know they're always going to war on that day. Like if Boston Marathon is always on a Monday, like maybe I should be always going to war on a Monday. we will adjust about two weeks in advance um so like i will run the sunday before a monday marathon um because i feel like i need that blood flow and like we'll put our long run on on monday a week out but other than like i know people that adjust the entire training block but for us we usually

1:15:02Jake Dearden: only adjust a week week and a half out oh that's nice no no that's cool the olympics yeah what was Was it like, was that the ultimate dream kind of ticked off? Like, what did it feel like?

1:15:22Clayton Young: Yeah, it's so hard to describe. I think the thing that is the most shocking that people don't have a peek into is the Olympic Village. I've heard crazy stories.

1:15:36Jake Dearden: Yeah, the craziest stories ever I've heard from the village.

1:15:39Clayton Young: Well, I think the thing that people don't realize is that first there's 10 ,000 people in the village. Like it is a village and you can get everything from ironing boards to, you know, any food that you want to like laundry to saunas to like they they've thought of everything. Gaming, haircuts, salons like there's just just it's everything. They've got bikes. They've got transportation within there. It's really, really neat.

1:16:08Jake Dearden: um that's good to hear because i've heard it's not always been like that there's granted i've

1:16:13Clayton Young: only been i'm a one-time olympian hopefully we'll be a two-time paris did a phenomenal job and yeah our quarters our living quarters were really tight like as team usa we were given like five suitcases chuck full of stuff like too much stuff like really nice i'm really grateful but like our rooms were small and so like you've got one bed you got another bed and and like were you sharing

1:16:36Jake Dearden: with other athletes sharing yeah sharing you have yeah you're you have to share and what was the bed situation like because was it was it not paris where there were some people refusing to sleep in the bed and they must be bougie people they must be but uh there was there was like sleeping out on the streets instead of something because the the quality of yeah the room was so hot or

1:16:58Clayton Young: something like that i don't know it's true like a lot of the units didn't have air conditioning And so that was a big concern for like a late Paris summer. Like would I be able to sleep, right? And then the other thing, like I said, like the frames were cardboard and people were making a big deal about those. I don't care if like a frame is a frame. But like the mattress itself was a little bit thin. Team USA did give us mattress toppers. Oh, there we go. Like we kind of were spoiled, to be honest. but like they were really tight quarters like stacking all of our stuff and staying organized was really tough luckily I didn't spend a ton of time in the Olympic Village like I came in did the opening ceremonies which was unreal and then I left to Switzerland to train at altitude because the marathon is like last to last yeah we were on the second to last day the women's marathon was on the last day.

1:17:57Clayton Young: And so we came in back to the Olympic village. We came a little, like five days out because I had some teammates that steeple chasers that we decided to all travel together back together. And they had some prelims that they had to race. But yeah, the Olympic village was really, really cool. What's really interesting too, you know, here I am in Utah and in Utah we don't have a lot of diversity you know you get a lot of white guys like me and so one of the coolest things honestly about being at the Olympic Games is like I felt like I was the minority for once and that was like you walk around the Olympic Village and there's every race every color every person like it was like and it was really cool like it's something that I don't get to experience very often.

1:18:47Jake Dearden: Did you get chatting with people from different backgrounds?

1:18:50Clayton Young: In fact, the night before the race, I had dinner with the Kenyan women's marathoners, which was really fun. And like, yeah, yeah, you sit down and have meals with all different types of athletes. And it's funny because you all, you know, all the athletes from a distance, like, you know, from socials and like news and media, and there's all this hype. And so you get to know all the other Olympic marathoners from a distance and you know them just like I know you, right? Like we've never met in person and I've seen you from a distance, but like, and then, and then you get to sit down with them and you're, and you get to actually see what they're like and you get to share a meal with them and, um, you get to know them beyond the facade of what is social media.

1:19:30Clayton Young: Right. And that's really cool. And really, it's really special. And, and what's really cool too, is there's like there's like a ranking not a ranking there's like a hierarchy to olympic athletes and so yet team usa basketball walks in and everyone's like whoa there's lebron and there's steph right and like everybody wants a picture with them even though that even though you're an elite athlete in your own right and you can perform at a high level you're like you're fangirling yeah you're fangirling a little bit yeah fanboying like it was really and even for track athletes like oh yeah like there's you know fred curly and there's like these other big time athletes that you you know and respect from a distance and and you're trying to keep your cool you're like yeah i'm a i'm an olympian too but like at the end of the day inside you're like no that's like a big time athlete and that's really cool to be with them that's cool yeah

1:20:23Jake Dearden: we get to race day race day on the olympics how do you deal with that pressure this is what you've dreamt of since you know being a kid yeah since 2002 2002 yeah since 2002 you've dreamt about this it's race day how do you deal with that pressure and you have specific things that you go through in your head or that kind of dissipate that pressure and take it away or does pressure

1:20:50Clayton Young: make you better perform yeah i mean by this stage of my life i definitely have learned to manage with pressure at a high, at a big stage. But I think for me, it was kind of going back to that freshman mentality. Like when you're a freshman in college or freshman in high school, you know, it's like, it's, it's this idea of like, oh, I'm going to beat up on the upperclassmen. Like I can't lose, right? Like, you know, I went into that race ranked 64th or something out of 80 plus so in other words it was a feat enough even to make it to the olympics for me and now it was

1:21:29Jake Dearden: just did you acknowledge that at the time did you acknowledge like you've won by just even getting here you have won or is it in your head you just always want more and you always yeah there's a

1:21:40Clayton Young: balance in that mentality like there is a naive mentality that is nice to have that like there is no pressure I've already made it like I just need it like in a way that kind of unlocks your ability to take risks and to you know wander and to dream and to be curious about what your performance may be but you've got to also be careful that like um that you just don't be like oh I'm just happy happy to be here right and it would have been really it's a balance between that mentality I should say and then the other mentality of like no I'm gonna get a medal and like medal or bust and I'm gonna feel the pressure and like in a way that can inhibit performance right um but at the same time like I think we kind of struck a really good balance where yes I was ranked 64th and yes I was you know really happy to be there um and that enough was a feat in and of itself but I had a really good teammate, Connor Mance, that, you know, we really did dream and think about and plan.

1:22:47Clayton Young: And like, it wasn't enough for us just to make the Olympic Games. Like, we didn't want to be the headline of like, oh, yeah, they had a good time at the Olympics. We wanted a headline of, you know, even through our training cycle, like, we are going to do everything that we can to get on that podium. And it was a very hungry mentality, a very naive mentality. And even it was interesting, like walking out to the start line of the Olympic marathon, you know, I was standing right next to Elliot Kipchoge. And there's this really cool clip on NBC live television, you know, of him and I of walking to the start line side by side and I'm thinking like like this is Elliot right like this is a guy that's the only guy to ever break two hours in the marathon this is a guy that I've dreamed about and looked up to and you know done research reports on in high school and and college about and um so there's like you got to kind of keep your cool a little bit there too um but you You know, just the honor to line up next to some like him and Bekele and, you know, Tamrat Tola and like these other big athletes that I, you know, I'd scoped out and that I've been following for a long time was really neat.

1:24:08Clayton Young: And I think one thing that I did throughout the race that was really important was I put myself towards the front of the race. because if I was maybe in 30th place and I looked up and I saw, you know, Patrick Tiernan, an athlete that I've looked up to a long time, Australian athlete, and I saw that he was in 20th place, I would have maybe felt like, oh, I can't pass that guy because that athlete is really good. But because I put myself in the front of that race, I've just, I guess this naive mentality just kind of kept me in it.

1:24:43Jake Dearden: Sometimes that's what you need. You need to believe in yourself. yeah you do you do need to believe in yourself you can't lock yourself in that you know i'm not and i i'm so guilty of this and i think i think it's a uk culture thing where like you're a realist and you're like that guy's that guy's done better in training he's yeah fitter than me he's he's stronger than me i am never i don't deserve to be ahead of him yeah and when it comes to race day you've got to kind of almost block that out and think i i have a shot here and if you don't think that then you've never got a shot yeah oh for sure for for someone who's listening and struggles with pressure yeah whether they're at their local uh 5k race 10k race or marathon and they've done all the hard training they've done the big block and it comes to race day what advice would you

1:25:36Clayton Young: give them to just settle the nerves a little bit yeah yeah there's one thing that you you're kind

1:25:45Jake Dearden: of thinking on that start line that for me for example i try and think about everyone else is in the same position as me everyone else on the start line is feeling the same totally and i try and take myself out of my own head yeah i'm like what what are they thinking like i'm i'm probably gonna i'm probably in a better position potentially or so i'm not gonna struggle as much as them and that kind of like settles the nerves almost yeah i don't know yeah i i feel like like you're all doing it together that's what i'm trying to get across like we're all doing it together and that way you shouldn't feel pressure it's just a race it's just a

1:26:29Clayton Young: celebration almost yeah for sure and in a way some athletes are feeling that more than you because they do have that expectation and that pressure and yeah because i was on that start line rank 64th and not with a long shot it was like yeah these guys are feeling all the pressure and i just get to beat up on them and but yeah i like knowing that everybody's feeling it knowing that that's a good feeling like like pressure and anxiety is your body's natural response to perform at a high level it's the flight or fight it's the it's the way that we go out and we hunt those years we get those balls we yeah we we uh we fight we go to war it's almost like someone explained

1:27:07Jake Dearden: it really like you feeling the pressure and feeling nervous is so close to excitement yeah that's you can't really tell the difference like the so if you just even if you're telling yourself i'm not feeling nervous i'm feeling excited yep like that just switches the mentality a little bit yeah yeah

1:27:27Clayton Young: Yeah, when I, I think, so maybe something that's a little bit unorthodox that, you know, people talk about, yeah, how do you deal with pressure and, you know, mindset and all these things. And, you know, I'll share something about that. But the first thing I'd share is I had a good coach in high school that would say, you know, if you're feeling anxious, feeling pressure, you know, especially like when you're in class all day, like you're in class all day and then you got to go perform. You got to go race, you know, this local track meet. He said, you know, go out into the hall or go outside the door of the classroom of the high school and just like primal scream.

1:27:57Clayton Young: like just scream as loud as you like, like, did you do this? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And just like, get it, like, just let it all out. And then just like, go back in, close the door and go back to class. Right. Like, and you know, that was something that was that you will never hear anywhere else. Right. Like, and that's something that to this day that, you know, sometimes when I'm, you know, the days leading into the race or the day morning of the race, I'm not saying do this on the start line. I'm not saying do this, you know, when you're in the definitely shake up your competitors beating your chest yeah screaming uh but like primal scream like let it out and and usually you'll feel better like let let the nerves flow and um but like when it comes to being on the start line itself like when when it's the peak the pinnacle of all that anxiety and pressure what i will often do um is i will i will i will try to go through my body language You know, I often talk about how the mind and the body are so related.

1:28:57Clayton Young: And so on that start line, when your mind is going a million miles an hour and you can't calm it down and you can't, you feel like, you know, the world's going to end and you don't know what's going to happen. And what if and what if and what if and what if is what you're doing. That's when you need to rely on your body and you need to, you know. Inhale eight counts. Exhale seven counts. Relax the shoulders. Close the eyes. Relax the face. shake out the arms shake out the legs um puff out your chest like your body controls the mind and the mind controls the body and so when your mind's out of control you can do it by controlling it with the body and um that's what i do and that's what i love and i i'll often um you know try to find some way to get my swagger i think swagger is just a good way of just showing confidence uh there's a there is a fine line between being swag like having swag and being cocky and so i try not to be cocky but i i try to find my swagger you know look good feel good race good right it's that mentality uh so that's that's something else i do on the start line

1:30:11Jake Dearden: it's cool that's really cool i like that i like uh there's a lot we can take away from that yeah i want to touch a little bit on nutrition well what things do you like to do nutrition wise uh yeah yeah i want to see what your nutrition is like day to day like are you worrying are you stressing about it obviously there's so much out there there's so much research so many bad things there's so many good things are you listening to that or are you just yeah eating what you want

1:30:45Clayton Young: i would say my overarching principle something that i kind of had to embrace through my college years you know in college i'll say this like i i was getting a little bit hyper obsessed with nutrition and uh hyper obsessed with you know i shouldn't eat that candy or that bar that dessert or I should watch what I eat, you know, before I go to bed. And I eventually had to kind of embrace this mentality that I'm known for, which is rule number one, eat. Rule number one, eat. Rule number two, eat good food. But never let rule number two get in the way of rule number one. In essence, like, you need to fuel the body first.

1:31:32Clayton Young: and I don't care if that's cookies, cake, ice cream, candy bars, like carbs, like whatever it may be, especially as a marathon, especially as an endurance athlete. And then once you figure that out, like once you're eating enough, then maybe you can put a little bit of mental focus on eating healthy, eating right. sometimes we wait for the perfect quinoa avocado kale chopped vegan organic salad when really all we really and you know it might take two or three hours to either prep that or go to the store and buy that or get it when really we just need to be eating timing is more important oh especially after hard work yes after any workout for sure like get it in the body and like i said if if that's a candy bar that is okay like that is like you need to replenish those stores immediately and quickly and efficiently and sometimes the mental stress of preparing the right meal the perfect meal gets in the way of just fueling the body and the time that it takes so have you seen

1:32:36Jake Dearden: a difference by just kind of like letting go of that everything that i eat needs to be a certain level of whole foods healthy to then just relax in a little bit and if you have let's say a candy bar in your bag are you and you have that like have you seen a difference in your performance

1:32:55Clayton Young: totally 100 i think like like what like we said earlier like i think one of the frontiers of performance endurance athletes is nutrition like in in competition nutrition like the gels the fluids the carbs like it is so important and so if it's so important during why wouldn't it be so important afterwards to like replenish that and so for me like as i've like kind of like i said earlier, like Tuesday, Thursday sessions, I used to not fuel during at all. And I used to maybe like eat a little bit before and then like, I'd kind of be lazy about my nutrition afterwards. But now when I make sure like I'm getting a certain amount of carbs before my work sessions, I'm making sure that I'm practicing my carbs during the sessions.

1:33:39Clayton Young: I noticed that I'm recovering far afterward or far better afterwards. And this also is really more prevalent in long runs. Like we used to go out for 20, 25 long runs with a single gel. and we'd get halfway through our run we'd pop down the gel we'd run back and then i'd be a zombie the rest of the day and i'd be like in this caloric deficit but now that we like you know i get my bottles on my long runs every 5k and not only am i like getting enough fueling but i'm like trying to push the boundaries of it i'm trying to see how many carbs i can get in how many grams of

1:34:10Jake Dearden: carbs are you having like per hour we'll go up there because that's what everyone kind of can relate to yeah typically trying to push um you know i'm trying to get to 100 grams of carbs per

1:34:22Clayton Young: hour but like more and more research is saying more and more so like yeah um i feel like a lot of the research is done on the bike though and you can you can maybe manage it better digest it better you're not bouncing up and down yeah yeah i think if you're getting 80 to 100 like that's good that's really really really good and that's usually what i'm hitting maybe like 70 to 90 in a race racing is obviously different than like the long run high heart rate you just don't want to get that stitch you don't yeah but that's that's what i'm trying to target but like i've had a couple competitors that are really pushing those limits and i think like we've seen in cycling the more the merrier so that's that's kind of the goals that i have for in in competition and in training nutrition um but uh harder said than done are there any kind of habits that you have

1:35:14Jake Dearden: nutrition wise like is there a certain cut off before bedtime that you're avoiding eating because it improves sleep or are you eating right up until bedtime so you feel comfortable falling asleep

1:35:26Clayton Young: are you strict on it are you not strict yeah yeah kind of like i was alluding to before like there used to be a cutoff in my mind it would say like okay at 8 p.m like i'm not eating anything past that, which is, I know, late based off of the new science that's coming out, but I used to think that that was good, but now I've, like, you know, I used to think that that was good, but to me, I think

1:35:53Clayton Young: waking up in the middle of night hungry or waking up in the morning, like, hungry is not a good sign as an endurance athlete. Like, yes, if you're trying to manage, you know, weight or other things and, like, trying to cut, like, I understand that. But as an endurance, like, cyclist or marathon runner, like, that is a bad sign that you're not recovering enough for your next session. So now I've actually flipped it. And often what I'll do is, like, if I'm feeling hungry or, like, if I feel like I've had a really big session that day, I will do protein right before bed, especially because growth hormone is typically released within the first couple hours of when you're sleeping.

1:36:35Clayton Young: And so it needs fuel, it needs protein to rebuild the body. And I think sleep is the best form of recovery. And so coupled with nutrition. So if you're missing one of those, like you have to fuel it. And so there are no limitations to my diet. I've had to remove all limitations because, like I said, rule number one, eat. Like I need, if anything, I need to be eating more and more frequently, more often. And I'm a three meals kind of day sort of guy. Like I don't like to snack, but I'm trying. I'm trying to push the limits of my snacking and even add in a fourth meal. Like I'll do, you know, early morning breakfast.

1:37:11Clayton Young: I'll do right after my run breakfast. I'll do a late lunch and then I'll do dinner.

1:37:14Jake Dearden: Well, we're looking out for the meals. what typically a typical day of eating what what we have in yeah for the listeners like big shout out to my wife she she runs an account called feed your runner oh okay and she is the brain and

1:37:29Clayton Young: the work ethic behind all of my fueling and she she is not a nutritionist but she essentially is she knows her stuff oh she's a certified nutritionist by this point more than most yeah and you know she she puts out a weekly letter that actually details all of my nutrition weekly for a marathon build uh for a marathon build it's called feed your runner and so like going into marathons um people can follow along and they can see yeah i think i'm gonna sound to this straight away after yeah i didn't realize and she's put out she recently has so for boston last year you know for all i don't know 12 to 16 weeks weekly she would release all of our dinners and and grocery lists and that you could pop in and do and she's now compiled that um she teamed up with a nutritionist.

1:38:15Clayton Young: And anyway, so that's where you can find the nitty-gritty. If you want to find the nitty-gritty, go follow Feed Your Runner. But beyond that, I would say like for me, it's simple carbs in the morning. So like banana, simple bar, maybe a gel and something. And then like during, like we've talked about in training nutrition. Afterwards, when I'm getting home, like in between, I should say, between my session, my running session, my weightlifting session, I'll do like a core power protein or a protein mix and then some simple carbs as well, like once again, like a bar. Or sometimes if we're on top of our game, we'll do like overnight oats or like PB &J sandwich or blueberries.

1:39:03Clayton Young: And then once I get home, like that's when Ashley pulls out the works. And so she'll do breakfast burritos, breakfast sandwiches. She can't pull me away. Like, I really, really love Rice Krispies and bananas, even though it's like cereal is like, okay, maybe you shouldn't do cereal. But like I said, rule number one, eat rule number two, eat good food.

1:39:23Jake Dearden: Yeah, I think people demonize sugar. Yeah. I don't think you should be as stressed about as what people think. I think at the end of the day, if you're burning so much, sugar is one of the best things that you can absorb.

1:39:41Clayton Young: Yeah, it's your primary fuel. It's glucose.

1:39:43Jake Dearden: It can get straight into your system to recover them and replenish them glycogen stores. Yep. 100%. Yeah, I think I'm a huge fan of cereal.

1:39:55Clayton Young: Huge fan.

1:39:55Jake Dearden: So yeah, I'm glad that you said that.

1:39:58Clayton Young: Yeah, I love it. Cereal. And it's so simple. But like from when you're at the end of a session and let's say Ashley is not there and like I'm brain dead, like I'm beat. Like I I'll first go for the cereal and I'll get that in my body. And then maybe I'll make eggs and burritos and hash browns and whatever it may be. But like I will often pull out the cereal first just to get it in me and get my mind going. It's an easy grab. Lunches were like a turkey sandwich sort of people. Sometimes some bowls like, you know, rice, spinach, salad. potatoes sweet potatoes dressings yeah and then dinners that's where Ashley shines like she'll we'll do anything from like like I think my favorite is probably like a pesto salmon with breadcrumbs encrusted it's so good we do a lot of bowls as well like just pick your grain that way we can feed the girls like what they like and what they want like we can be a little bit more choosy ashley can do a little bit more like um you know green based like salad kale based and then i can like load rice and quinoa like crazy it must be that struggle because like obviously

1:41:09Jake Dearden: you've got you you're a family and you need so many grams of carbohydrates but realistically everyone else would be a whale if they ate the amount that you ate so they've got to they've literally got to uh eat less or eat different things so that that's cool a cool way of doing it yeah having having options um just hearing about your diet then it seems like you have a real priority for protein yes over other but over the traditional endurance athlete a traditional endurance athlete i feel like would be super super high carb yeah and then do you know trace trace amounts of fats trace amounts of protein obviously protein is becoming more and more important but uh you you feel like you i feel like you've got it nailed and you're almost um your diet is very isn't very different to my diet which requires a little bit more strength

1:42:07Clayton Young: training and stuff like that um why is that yeah i would it's interesting when you look at the science i think they've endurance athletes used to be afraid of protein because they were afraid of bulking up but studies have now shown that endurance athletes need more protein than your typical weightlifting athlete yeah um and so is there a certain uh grams per pound you know that you're going for i should know this and i should like uh dial this in a little bit more but it's just like getting as much as i can no i love that and so um i think the studies say for

1:42:43Jake Dearden: for endurance athletes you want to aim for very similar to bodybuilding uh you if not more but uh you you want uh a gram per pound okay so um that's roughly where we're looking at i think yeah that that checks out um i you know there was some initial things where i was like okay

1:43:08Clayton Young: they were like, okay, you can only absorb 25 to 30 grams of carbs per grams of protein per hour. And so I was like, okay, I should only eat this much and not, and then like spread out my protein essentially. But I think there's been some recent research that shows like, oh no, you can push that limit further. And, and so for me, it's just, you know, making sure I'm getting protein right after my session. Obviously we're always having protein with my dinners, um, and then having another shot

1:43:37Jake Dearden: of protein before bed cool cool i think that's simple and something people can can definitely take away yeah i want to kind of move on and finish with some quickfire questions if that's okay let's do it i wrote some down before um first of all you mentioned that your wife is an amazing uh chef whatever you want to say she does it all but if you was to do you know she wasn't around or if it's a date night and you're trying to impress her what is the meal that you would make what's your what's your specialty what's my special um

1:44:16Clayton Young: um i would go for a steak with sheet pan veggies um i think ash ashley how we cooking the steak uh it depends yeah i think ashley ashley doesn't like anything that bleeds and so we're we're doing it a little bit more on on the well done yeah for ash and the thing is like she while she is a saint and she will do like a lot of meal prep and stuff she hates raw meat like she she hates prepping it right like yeah yeah just the germs the the anyway making sure it's cooked all the way through and making sure it's like she's not gonna you know poison me or whatever like she just everything about it the cleanup um and so like if i could take on a like a high raw meat day like she would she would love that right um because that's not what she likes to do yeah and then she she's she's a veggie fanatic and so like a sheet pan veggie

1:45:19Jake Dearden: would be something that she would love um and then and then chocolate she's like chocolate as dark as you can get it um get her some chocolate amazing amazing yeah this one i don't know if it'd be tough but if you could only do one for the rest of your life compete at the olympics or at any world major so you can only do one like you could never compete in a world major again or like the olympics oh man that is really tough because they only come once every four years i

1:45:54Clayton Young: And so, yeah, the prestige of the Olympic Games takes the cake, right? Like if I compete in Olympic Games for the rest of my life, like if I'm a five-time Olympian, like I'm set. Both from like a prestige and from just the rest of my life. But it's so hard to turn down the culture and like the vibes and like the celebration of what is a world major marathon. Like there is. So, yes. This is supposed to be rapid fire and here I am dissecting.

1:46:24Jake Dearden: So many people out on the streets, though, like, you know, it is a celebration. Every world major is a celebration. Everyone that I thought, any marathon, to be fair, like. It's true. It's just so cool that people.

1:46:34Clayton Young: It's becoming so big. Any marathon.

1:46:35Jake Dearden: Yeah. People come out onto the streets. It makes so much effort. They've got banners. There's kids with, what's your opinion? Right. This is a little bit of a trade off. What's your opinion when you're doing like a world major or whatever, and you see a child holding a sign that says tap for a power up or something like that. late and do you go do you tap it are you super locked in or like because i've when i'm struggling and i'm in the gutter if i tap that it actually works oh totally totally i what's interesting like

1:47:04Clayton Young: we talked earlier about like the mental and the physical side of standing on the start line for me the first half of a marathon i try to i try to lock out the mind um and not get too emotionally charged because to be like to be on that emotional high for me for two hours it's just like you'll be spent by the end but that should be the easiest part as well the first half like you should be yeah yeah and so you know the second half of the race heck yes i'm tapping that power up and like i'm getting a high five and i'm like i'm fueling off of the crowd because that's when i can you know run with the heart instead of with the mind and so crazy the power of that though

1:47:42Jake Dearden: oh yeah like it drives you like that pain that you're feeling like it suddenly goes when someone

1:47:48Clayton Young: smiles or shout your name or whatever it is it makes a big difference and in a way like because people are shouting my name the entire race i have to shut that down the first half so i can pull from that the second half yeah so anybody that's ever cheered for me the first half i'm sorry if i'm like kind of like blocking it all out because give me the second lap and uh yeah i'll give you all the love in the world because i feel off of that cool so back to the question

1:48:14Jake Dearden: are you picking majors are you picking olympics or is it too hard olympic games like yeah for sure for sure have you a question have you got the olympic tattoo are you not not a fan or like would you yeah it's funny um i haven't got the

1:48:30Clayton Young: olympic tattoo yet um yeah i i for me like i'm so intrinsically i i don't need anybody else to know that i'm an olympian i kind of like flying under the radar to be honest that's that's cool but if I had to get it someplace someday it'd be pretty subtle even like inside wrist my wife wants one though which is kind of funny

1:48:55Jake Dearden: favorite strength exercise to help performance so like best bang for your buck say it one more time favorite strength exercise in the gym best bang for the buck for a runner

1:49:06Clayton Young: one exercise

1:49:12Clayton Young: oh man man um it would have to be an olympic lift because it's more full body so like an uh a back squat nice i like that favorite pre-workout meal

1:49:29uh rice krispies with a banana yeah i like that um and then i wanted to this is a little bit more deep now but uh yeah you've mentioned i don't know if it was on

1:49:46Jake Dearden: camera or off camera but you mentioned you're a professional athlete you don't well you can't physically do it for the rest of your life yeah so what does after being a pro athlete look like for you is the is the Jake and High Rocks let's go let's go we'll go but um is there like a a hobby passion that like you know some people say oh they they love just to sell like the family-run restaurants or something like that is a is there anything that you see yourself doing as a career after yeah commentator like you know there's a lot of options like

1:50:30Clayton Young: commentating has been really fun like I was able to commentate at both New York and Chicago and just being able to be that close to the action and then still enjoy what is marathon weekend was incredible and I that I definitely see like if I can continue to commentate and be a voice in the sport um that would be amazing uh if I had to go back to like my roots a little bit you know I do have a mechanical engineering background that's what I got my master's degree in and and I always dreamed of okay if I'm not if I can't become a professional athlete if I can't make it to the next level I always thought maybe I could convince a brand to you know allow me to develop product for you know 20 hours a week you know the next super shoes you know the next performance apparel whatever it may be but then allow me to run for 20 hours a week and to to see if I can perform at a high level.

1:51:26Clayton Young: That was kind of the old dream. And so I could see me come full circle when I'm done running pro and I'm no longer competitive to go back and to do shoe design, to geek out, turn it out, to put it to test. And then from my professional experience to be able to know what does make a fast shoe and really elevate a brand in that regard.

1:51:50Jake Dearden: Well, we're putting it out into the world. hopefully someone somewhere someone's listening and they they give you that opportunity because i think that's the coolest thing and no one has got your experience yeah yeah and yeah i just think you that that suit you so well and the attention to detail that you have with everything in your life if you could come like transfer that into creating a shoe i think that yeah that would you'd make moves in the shoe world. So that's really cool. That's really cool. That was brilliant, mate. That was brilliant. I really enjoyed listening to you. I've learned a lot.

1:52:36Jake Dearden: I've honestly found this like one of the best chats I've ever had, I think.

1:52:39Clayton Young: I appreciate it. Thanks for pulling it out of me. Thanks for asking the right questions and having the similar experience to be able to do that is really important, right? Like, it's important to be able to, yeah, relate with what the people want and what they need to get to the next level, but then also being able to have the athlete mind to be able to pull it out of me. Like, what does it take? So I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on.