Eli Wehbe & George Heaton - #015

0:00Eli Wehbe. Yes, sir. George Heaton. Not again. How are we feeling? Boys are feeling pretty good today. First one I mentioned your gloves, George. Why have you got gloves on? I get really cold. It's about 75 out here, guys. Fahrenheit. So I don't know if you guys Celsius people in England. But I'm not adjusted to the temperatures. So my body's in shock. We're in L.A. Yeah, it's constantly warm and you've got gloves on. Mm hmm. so i wanted to start off the podcast by talking about your next race let's dive into it straight in at the deep end tell people we are running a 300 mile race through the arizona trail called the arizona monster 300 what's so special about it what makes it so hard what makes it a monster i think there's about 42 000 feet of climbing on it um it's hot as shit is it a point-to-point race yeah point to point okay so i forget where it starts for some reason but i know it ends in patagonia have you done this before yeah but i got hurt last year i was coming into the top five last year and i like hyper extended my knee and i tried to go like another 30 miles on and it was just it was done that was my first dnf ever in a in a long race so 300 miles obviously you've done quite a few ultra marathons before you are one of the most insane athletes that i look up to on socials that I know.

1:25Yeah, I appreciate that, man. I think the same about you. You're a beast as well and you're in your field, you know? No, but in all seriousness, like, anything here? Huh? I get it. I get it. George, you're down to it. What about me? What about you?

1:41But, no, there's a lot of people out there that have done 100 miles. Correct. And 100 miles, whether it's 100 miles, 100 kilometers, even a marathon, it's an insane achievement, but you've got to be a bit different to run 200 300 miles yeah i think you just got to kind of learn how to suffer out there and i think once you kind of start doing like these bigger races like once you do like kind of like once i first did my first hundred miler i kind of started learning how to just kind of sit out there and suffer because usually the first 24 hours of the race just sucks you're in your head like why i'm out here again what do i gotta prove and then once you lock out of those 24 hours you're just like all right i'm going full throttle till i get that finish line you're just kind of like zoned out it's just a big mental game you know like if you you can be in shape but like you have to have the mental to finish these races and what drives you to sign up to these races because i just think it's crazy yeah um i kind of like doing things that no one else is doing so i feel like if everyone started doing 300 mile races i'd have to like figure out like something new to do so i'm like it's so mental like it doesn't sound mental to me because i'm watching the other people that's doing it with me but i think like looking on the other side of things like it is pretty mental to like sit back and look at it but um I think they're dope to document I think they're super hard to do I think like you just learn so much about yourself during that race that I could never explain to anybody else out there like what you learn about yourself and like what you go through to get to the end of the finish line of those races and uh it's just different every single time it just feels like such a big accomplishment

3:06George Heaton: what what makes you go from 100 to 200 to 240 to 300 like I remember watching you a few years ago do tahoe which i think was 100 right no tahoe was 200 tahoe was 200 yeah you're doing 300 people don't understand well i even i don't understand the difference between 200 and 300 miles just think about that well the hardest thing i've ever done is a hundred mile race which race did you do i just did one in the uk literally it wasn't a famous one um flat it was rolling so it wasn't too much I think over the 100 miles I think it was about 3 ,000 meters elevation so not much at all really but still enough when you've not really done it before but that was the hardest thing I'd done and I ended up doing 160 miles but I could not like even throughout that there was times where I sat on the ground I lay on the ground and I'm like I'm giving up I'm done I don't care what happens I am done I don't know if that's No, no, I go through that pretty much so many different times during the race.

4:13I literally have a pacer with me, and I'm like, yo, when we get there, I'm done. Don't try and talk me out of it. And then a mile there, I start feeling good again. I'm like, yeah, ignore everything I said. We're good. I'll bitch at him for maybe four or five hours. And he'll just listen to me, just talk shit to him like that. I'm just done. I'm like, yo, I'm never doing this again. I'm good. And what changes when you realize you can go further? You just kind of go through a range of emotions. Like, you know, like you'll just go into a low for like seven, eight hours. And then you'll go like, you'll just be like, oh, just kidding.

4:42Like, I feel good again. Like, I'm just going to keep going. Plus, you just think like, dude, I spent so much time to work for this race. I'll be done with this thing in another day and a half. Or what sounds crazy, but like, I'm like, yo, I'm only doing three or four of these things a year. So I'm like, yo, this is what I'm doing now. So how can I just stop? Like, how can I just quit? Like, I can't do it. Like, I have to finish this thing.

5:01George Heaton: And then just kind of like, what was that? What makes you then sign up for another one? Is it the rush you get from doing it or is it you wanting to go back into the pain cave and suffering through it? Yeah, there's two things. Like, I have bigger goals this year. Like, I want to start podiuming on these races. And then there's this feeling right when you get done with the race. Like, you're like, oh, like, man, I could have kind of went longer. Like, because you get so excited once you kind of get started to the end. You're not like, as for me, like, I'm not, like, slumping through, like, being like, oh, this is the end for me.

5:33But, like, I get there and I'm, like, kind of sad. I'm like, damn, it's over. Like, the journey's over. Because the journey's like, you know, like anything else. And, like, the journey's where it's at, you know? And, like, just the whole experience of the race is what, like, kind of makes me want to go back. Like, all the highs and the lows. And, you know, you kind of get done and you're like, all right, let's just find another one. Like, it's just kind of how I feel at the end of them. But while I'm doing them, when I'm miserable, I'm like, fuck this. I don't want to do this shit again. Do you feel like that as soon as you're finished?

6:05or does it take you like a couple of weeks after the pains kind of? I'm already kind of on the map being like, yo, what's next? Like the second, like even like a mile from like the finishing Moab last year, like I was just like, all right, what am I doing after this? Because I already know there's a break because October is like the end of race season for like, you know, these bigger races. So I'm like, damn, what am I going to do now for the next six months? Do you think you struggle without a goal? I think it kind of gives me purpose. Yeah, I think it definitely gives me purpose. And I think like there's so many people like watching and looking up to what I'm doing that like it gives them purpose as well, too, to go do try and go do hard things, you know?

6:39George Heaton: Yeah, it's mind blowing. Yeah. So it's the motivation that it gives to others is the reason why you carry on. Yeah. It's for myself, too. You know, like when I was. What are them five principles of why you do it? I guess. Did you say five? Maybe five, three, five, two, whatever it is. Yeah. What are they? One is obviously motivating others. I think definitely motivating others is up there. I think just trying to challenge myself to continue to do hard things that don't seem doable. Because that's like when you accomplish something that doesn't seem doable, that's kind of where you learn and you grow every single time.

7:12That's the best feeling. Yeah. And then I love documenting these things and sharing them. I think there's not many people, like you guys said, doing two, three hundred mile races. So people like to know what I'm eating. They like to know how am I sleeping. or like all these small things that they're like wait how is he running for two three hundred miles straight and then like i like explaining these things to people yeah and i just like trip out about it do you ever look back on them like do you ever watch back your own oh yeah i'll like i'll you know i was put together like a recap of the races and i'll watch them and then like and then you know in the next year i'm like i'll finish like last year this year this past year when we finished moab i was like man i'm never doing this shit in the rain again and same with cocodona 250 50 like it rained again i like wrote like uh the owner of the race i was like yo next year if i come back if it's raining and i'm in the hotel just give my spot to someone else but like i like now if it is raining i'll still run it again like that's how miserable i was in the time though i was so miserable just because it was raining dude because it's all muddy you can't run like it's just so miserable it's not even just because it was raining it was just like it was just in sludge you're slipping everywhere like areas that were supposed to take four or five hours to get through You're taking 10 hours to get through.

8:17Like, you know, it's just you're already miserable, and it's just more miserable on top of it, you know?

8:23George Heaton: What does the cadence of, like, where you go from running a half marathon, a marathon to a marathon, and then I'll see a few people do, like, a 50-miler, what makes you go from a marathon to a 300-mile race? Like, what does that look like for you in terms of not even the volume of work, just, like, the length of time and the mindset to get from that to that? I think for me, like I started with a half marathon. Then I started with a marathon. Then I started the 50 K. And then like when I did the first 50 K, I was like, damn, that was hard. I'm like, how the hell am I going to run any longer than this?

8:55Then I signed up for a 50 mile or then I got so miserable at 50 mile. Didn't understand how to suffer that I was like, yo, when I'm done with this, I'm never doing this again. Then I crossed that finish line. Then I was like, all right, let me go see if I can do a hundred K. And then I did that. Then once I did a hundred K, I kind of started figuring out like, all right, I wanted to quit a bunch of times. Once I hit like more mile, like 40, 50. then once i got to the end i was like oh maybe i can do 100 mile then when i got 100 miler i had like the best 100 mile ever i didn't i didn't i didn't feel like shit until like mile 85 because i just played it smart and i ran a good race and like after that i was like fuck it i'm gonna put myself in the lottery for 240 mile race got in and then i was like all right we're just gonna jump in the 100 240 miler and that was it and then i threw had no direction threw a backpack on and just like figured it out while i was running honestly it's insane and i can't get across to people like how normal that is to be able to run that distance but going back to the highs and lows I mentioned sometimes you'll be in a low for seven hours how long does that high last is it the same amount of time or is it a lot less have you ever been caught in a low where you've got to kind of like a checkpoint and you're like I'm done like this is me yeah it happens almost last race I went into a pretty bad low last year at Cocodona the rain and mud got so bad i almost got hypothermia like on the mountain and like i was just shivering everywhere i'm like my pacer was just trying to like just he's yelling at me oh you're gonna die on this mountain we're gonna get down because it was getting that point no one can get me we're like in a storm and i was just shivering and i was like yo when we get down if we get down i'm done for good so we got there and i never sleep this long i fell asleep for three hours looked out look at looked outside the trailer and it was still pouring and i went like that to them i slammed the door back again slept for another three hours and then like the rain stopped and then I just got up and then just started flying and that was it and that was it I never felt like quitting again after that it was at mile 125 but I fought with them for a while I'm like yo I'm done when I wake up from this nap I'm going home and then they're like oh yeah just take a nap you'll be fine and their job is to never let me quit you know like they will argue with me to the end and they were like yo come on just put put some dry socks on and like just just go start out there and I knew we had to go in this river crossing and i was freezing and then it somehow was like the warmest water when we got there and i had like the best run when we got there and i was like oh we're back baby we just started flying and that was it and you you mentioned that you you find yourself like you find out things about yourself that you you never find in any other situation what are them things you got to run the race like i couldn't explain it yeah yeah it's like one of those things like during like a hallucination obviously i've heard like it's just it's just like the experience you go through and everything you go through through those 240 miles or 250 miles or 300 miles is like unexplainable to somebody and it's just like you just look at yourself so much different when you finish like nothing feels like doomsday to me like no matter how shitty things go in my life no matter how bad things go i've gone through enough fucked up shit in my life and then i've done enough of these races where i felt like i was just gonna die every time that i'm like yeah i'm good everything everything's good in life and if it's not good it will be like you know like that's just kind of how i see everything now it's such a good perspective yeah like once you've done

12:03George Heaton: something like that you've you've kind of got that like resource and that knowledge that what you've been through things aren't going to be as hard as that and if you keep putting yourself through it like to me to me it's insane and and can you relate to anything like that like on a different level the thing is eli talks about them all as 240 300 mile races like i remember when i I did my first, I think it was like 70 or 80K. And I'd never, I'd never ran more than like 20K before that. And I went and met Will when he was running across America and thought I'd do a full day with him. And it fucking ruined me for a month.

12:40No way, just running with him towards like the end of the race, right?

12:42George Heaton: I just did 80K the day before he finished and I couldn't walk for a month. And this was when I was talking to you and watching all your shit. and I was just like, I was, I couldn't understand what it does to the body but now when I start actually adding volume in, I get it a little bit. Like now when I go into marathon blocks properly and run the race and like enjoy the race and then two days later I can run great again. I understand how you build the volume up. Correct. And understand like how many years now on feet you've been going and going every single day and I watch your story every morning and you're doing 20 miles every single day and that shit adds up and I think like me as a young naive kid that when I went through that shit I didn't know that I thought just because I was I thought I was hard I thought I could just fucking do anything I ran 80k and I ruined my life so like I still can't fathom what it does at like a 300 mile race even when you've been doing 20 miles a day consistently for years and years it must be what about when you ran from LA to Vegas with the crew like it's still a lot of how many miles on feet was that was he with you too?

13:46oh yeah how many miles did you guys each get on feet? I think we averaged roughly around 100 kilometers, I think. Oh, it's about 60 miles each. Yeah. It's a lot fast, though. We're running. How is it on the body, though, like when you guys are stopping and going? It's tough, but you kind of get used to it. Yeah. Just one thing I love about these races, whether it's Speed Project, whether it's Ultra Endurance, is the daily bullshit and your daily to-do list, everything that you're stressing about in your life, goes and you're kind of just in this survival mode but there is that's the beauty of it like nothing else matters in this world apart from finishing correct i think that's what i love

14:29George Heaton: about it and i don't get that time away from life so much so that's why when you ask me to come on them things even though i'm not the type of person that has the endurance to be able to do it i'll still say yeah and even though it'll break my body down i'll still say yeah because you get that day or two where you're just away from everything nothing else matters it's all quiet yeah for me like even just the bullshit of like being an athlete and having to get nine hours sleeping having to stay on track with nutrition all the time having to do all my recovery like that goes out the window like you're eating whatever you feel like eating and you need which is normally carbohydrates in the form of whatever it is normally sweets and then you're not sleeping because you can't sleep and it's just a stress relief for me which sounds like the saddest thing ever but it's probably my like blowout if that makes sense no and i i like even every day when i go run like everything's quiet for me you know i took my girl today on a run and like she was like i get why you do this i just feel happy all the time like i i feel so happy after we finish i'm like why do you think i come out here every single day do you normally run on your own when you're training yeah i like you know now like that i'm getting ready for the race there's like a lot of like bigger days where i have like 30 to 35 mile days or six hour run days and stuff like that in the mountain i usually try to like find someone to come with me it's just like it's nice to have someone there but if they can't come they don't come i mean i'm in the race alone a lot of time anyway if i'm planning to lead these races i'm going to be alone unless i have a pacer with me so do you listen to music when you're yeah very low i like put on like you know a pair of shocks and like i have them on like a very light where i can kind of hear but i can still hear my footsteps and my breathing i used to just love music on really loud and now i got used to either having a little bit of music on during the races or none so it's like would you is there a specific playlist something that you're just like heavy metal and rock just fucking going in i'll listen to it yeah we me and him me and him i kind of have like the same music taste vibe um yeah there's like like i love just so much that playlist never ends as well yeah i'm always updating i update that playlist every friday so like there's always new on there and it's just like it's all fire yeah that's sick yeah so that actually moves on when when did your friendship evolve like when did you first start 2016 17 something like that dude when i always talk about the first times i came to la and one time i came out to la bro and i stayed in cat von d's house up on outpost drive no fucking ac middle of summer boiling hot i didn't know anybody i meet this guy it was game over in the city huh it was the best guy to meet in the city because you just you could literally do anything right yeah and us kids coming from the middle of nowhere in a different country, all we do is speak the same language.

17:06George Heaton: Nothing else is the same. And we come here and you're able to do whatever the fuck you want to do. And it just changed my world. Yeah. I don't know why you guys, why you in particular, out of everyone here, took a liking for us and enjoyed spending time with us. Because I loved to enjoy, I enjoyed everything we did together. Yeah, I think I was very particular with who I fucked with and liked. and I had a very good like sense of who I'd like in like the first kind of like 30 seconds to a minute of meeting them. I just read right through people's bullshit. You know, it's what I did for work. So like everyone's a fucking bullshitter in the city.

17:40And it's like you could just kind of tell if someone's genuine or not. And I just liked them and liked the brand when they were doing it. So we kind of crossed over the brand stuff. I'd come in and get stuff from Represent with him. And he'd come out with me. And then I'd do what I can. Like I would introduce them to people. I think I introduced you to MGK, yeah? Yeah. And then they ended up doing a collab together. and like, you know, just cool shit like that. I was always a good connector, you know, and I don't need shit out of it.

18:03George Heaton: Yeah, like I wasn't spending fucking 20 grand a night on tables like everyone was back then. I just need 20 % of the company when he finally sells it. I just told him that day one, I'm like, yo, I'm going to do this for you. Just don't forget me. That's it. That's all I need. And then over the years, how has that evolved? Because both of your lives have changed massively. Yeah. In that time. I think like we've always stayed in contact. Like even like when I went through all a lot of bullshit that I went through, me and him, like I reached out to him and we still talked a lot. And I actually kind of introduced him to the ultra game.

18:34I started just watching. I was like off on a hiatus for like eight months off social media. Nobody knew where I was. And like I was just watching all these like I read. I think I read David Goggins book and Rich Roll's book. And then I was like just started watching all these YouTube YouTube videos with all these ultra runners. And I was like, oh, it's like this UTMB shit. And like I was like, wait, people are running like these hundred mile races. and then I started watching and I was telling him, he's like, yo, this is fucking mental, bro. I didn't even know this exists. And then I popped back online, do my first 50K and he's just kind of watching everything.

19:03And then he started kind of diving into how this is all going and he started running. I think he always told me that I got him into running at the start when I used to run this little route that he runs to Santa Monica all the time.

19:13George Heaton: Yeah, from here to the beach, I would see him run it and post it and be like, fuck. That was a dream for me. Is that why you always do that same run? I do it every week pretty much. Yeah, it's the same run I did, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. and uh that inspired me but before that when you were going through that shit i just there was so much um hate on social media to you yeah and like people talking shit and because i'd kind of been here a while and understood that i fucking hated it so i was just always making sure like i was always checking in on you and yeah like you know like what you're doing when next coming out like what can we do together and i don't know he messaged me like the bounce i knew though i knew all along with the way you were running and what you were doing and how you had always been to me, that you would bounce back from that way better than anyone could ever imagine.

19:56George Heaton: I always love an underdog story, and I always love it when someone fucking literally turns their life around and says, fuck you, to the rest of the people. I could see that coming, and it happened. Yeah, he knew it was coming. He's full of shit, though. He wrote me, he was like, yo, rotten hell, motherfucker. He was one of the hate. You deserve it, bitch. Nah, he had my back, man. And, you know, I always remember, I always have a mental note of all those people. you know and it there was a lot of people that kind of turned their backs that came back around i never just have a mental note you know i'm not like you guys but i'm like i have i am i have a personality though like yo if you don't like me if you want to believe this believe it and off you know like i just don't care yeah that's just kind of a high roll if someone looks after you i was a kid coming here literally a kid coming here and this guy looked after me every time i came out here regardless of how much i would spend and it would be nowhere near what everyone else for spending in his club, then when something happens to him, I've got to have, like, you know, it's my fucking, it's my dues to, like, fucking pay it back.

20:54So, yeah, he owes me 20 % of the company. So 20%, yeah. Michael, bro, I'm sorry, man.

21:01George Heaton: But we had some fucking great times. Yeah, we hung out a lot outside of the club, though, too. We used to go to, like, rock concerts together, and, like, we did a lot of shit outside of the club. It wasn't always the club. No, it wasn't, bro. And I didn't know many people that listened to the same type of music as me, especially in that like club scene so yeah it was like a weird thing like being in the club scene and like now now i mean obviously like i don't give a fuck i post all like all my dumps or whatever like i'll post screamo or whatever the fuck it is but like back in the day it was kind of like uh you didn't really like post that stuff you're like oh i used to listen to this when i was a kid and i didn't really post it but me and him would be like wait we fuck with the same music let's start going to concerts and shit and like so you had to get like your it wasn't like on the low you just didn't really like post about it wasn't like a thing and then just like all the all the fucking screamo and rock shit just ended up fucking blowing up again it was crazy and i just started posting anyway i didn't give a fuck i was like yo this is my shit that's sick what's your day-to-day looking like now like uh it's just all training and recovery so like i get up like around like yeah like around 5 30 5 45 i'll try to get on the trail by like 6 30 then i come back rinse off go to the gym hit strength training session i usually switch off from lower to upper every other day and then that's the first time i saw you by the way it was oh yeah that was dude i was fucking i was way skinnier too then i didn't have size on me or anything i was i was a dweeb i swear that day wait was that before the meat huh the meat transition oh yeah yeah i was also vegan for seven years too i used to yeah i didn't realize that i got i got scammed for seven years man hey man listen look whatever whatever don't stop that i would message him every single day saying bro when you come into the meat side he was so happy pictures of eggs yeah sorry how did he get scammed i want to go into this he would go to fucking nobu and he would order fucking i think it was like i had the i had i had the fire vegan that's a fire in like the mushroom the mushroom like the hot mushroom like that's some fire that's some fire option i'll still get some of those when i go on there but now now actually i'm just getting all the meat when i going that shit's done i'm sorry so just just explain how you got scammed i was i was dating a girl i was dating a girl for a long time that was like an animal activist and then like we split and then at that time it wasn't like it wasn't like when like all the fake vegan meats and shit were out was more about like eating clean and like not not like just just whole foods and just not fucking eating fucking shit that had like dyes in it and like all this other bullshit right yeah so it's not like you weren't eating beyond burgers yeah that shit I don't even think that shit was around yet.

23:30Yeah, which is all about whole foods and just clean shit and no oils and all this shit. So I started feeling better. I went pescatarian first, then I went vegan, and then plant-based. I don't say vegan because that's a whole different culture and religion at this point. But yeah, I went plant-based, and then I got stuck in that shit for seven years. Did you feel good, though? Did you feel good? I did for a while, and then in the last two years, I was having a lot of gut issues. I had a gut level 10 inflammation. I was like running 100-mile weeks and still had like a gut. And I was like, what's going on?

24:01Like something's got to be wrong with me. So then started 2024. I was just like in the last – like when I first had eggs again in 2024 to start, I was like just craving them. So I had an egg, and then that was it. Right after I had the egg, I started eating chicken, meat, and then I ran Cocodone 250 for the first time. And then we got done with the race like at 12 at night almost. And we leave and go to the hotel room. My friends are like, yo, the only thing that opens is In-N-Out. And I haven't had red meat yet. And then they're like, yo, we're going to get a bunch of burgers and fries. I was like, yeah, I can't eat the meat yet.

24:31I haven't done that in a long time. They came back with like 10 four-by-fours, and I smashed like four of them. And I had like four animal stack fries, and I was like, man, I feel fucking great. And that was the end of it, and I was back on the meat train. Anyways, look, if the plant-based diet works for you guys, great. You know, I feel fucking way better. If you feel good on it, you guys enjoy the scam. I think it's a good point that you said it. You guys enjoy the scam. I'm just kidding. If it works for you, it works for you. It worked for me for a good amount of time. Whatever diet works for you, do it.

25:03No, I think it's good to point out that you said that when you changed, you did go more whole food. Correct. I wasn't eating, like, fake meats and bullshit to me. I was just eating, like, just a lot of, like, at that time, too, like, you know, they weren't telling us all these, like, all the grains and all the quinoas and all this shit was sprayed with all these fucking chemicals and all this stuff. Like, you know, there's all these things and all this bullshit now. So, like, I don't even eat any of that stuff anymore. But, you know. Anyways, back on the—

25:30George Heaton: It served a purpose at the right time, right? Yeah. And now I feel way better. I don't really eat meat during races, though. Like, I feel like it just—it takes too long to digest. So what we have— I'm stacking carbs during the race. Like, I'll just grab, like, 11 pancakes and just, like, just smash them all. Grab quesadillas. All you dairy. Dairy's fine with me. Wait, wait, wait. Before we talk about that— You want the day-to-day still? The day-to-day. But instead of—I know you said you wake up at 5.30 and you're on the trail by 6.30. what does like nutrition and everything look like? Because I see your stories and I only see you running or at the gym or with one hour on meal and then that's it.

26:03George Heaton: I don't know what else you're doing for the rest. Is he copying you? Is that why he doesn't eat anymore? Because you have an eating problem. You're scared to eat food. Let me in my day-to-day and then we'll get in the food. So then I usually come back. No, 5.45, wake up. No food. What are you eating? No food in the morning, yeah. And you're going straight to a trail. Sometimes before the run, I'll have a ketone IQ shot. The ketones feel pretty good. I usually try in and out in the long runs. I try to have those every 10 miles. I get a lot of energy from them. Have you guys tried them before or no?

26:33No. No? Did they work for you? They either work for you or they don't.

26:37George Heaton: Sometimes I will have one, and I will have the best run of my life. Other times I'll not have it. Yeah. Are these the ones that taste like battery acid? Yeah. Yeah, but now they have newer flavors and stuff, and they taste way better. Yeah, and then they have ones with caffeine now that have five ketones instead of ten, and then they actually taste pretty damn good. So he'll have a shot of nothing. And then what happened? The 20 miles, what are you having in the 20 miles? Sometimes nothing in the 20 miles. But lately, since I've been running the, like if I do a 30-mile run in the week, and then I try to do a 17-20, like say I do a 30-mile run on a Thursday, and then I try to do a 17-20 on a Saturday, I'm starting to feel pretty depleted by like mile 10, 12 if I don't put calories in me.

27:17So now I'm starting to take snacks. I've been literally running into the same girl on my run on Saturday. and I'm like, oh, I feel good. And then I'll hit like mile 11, 12. I'm like, damn, I hope this girl pops up because she always has like crustables or something on her bag. And I'm like, yo, I brought an extra crustable for you because I already knew you're going to need it. It's happened down the last two weeks in a row. And I normally don't need food. And I have calories on me, but I need solids because if you have too many, like there's like a trick, the thing, like if you have too many gels, like your body picks it up as like, it's just liquid.

27:49Even if you have like two gummy bears with the gels, your body will pick it up like it's a solid. It's usually the trick with it. But now I'm starting to take more calories with me on the run. So say on the day-to-day, if I go do a 30-mile run, I'll try to do like 300 calories per hour, 90 grams of carbs per hour. So that's kind of the goal now. That's going to be the goal for the next race, 90 grams per hour. It's more about the carbs than the calories to me now. Is there anything that you crave out when you're running? So in that 30-mile run, will you try and train your goals? It's up and down.

28:23Sometimes I'll crave like a certain gel. Sometimes I'll crave like I just need, I need like some sort of salt. I love fruit snacks. Anything like gels, fruit snacks, like I can just keep eating those over and over and over. There's something about them. They feel real good.

28:32George Heaton: What are you eating post-race for the rest of the day? Like post 300-mile race? No, no, no. Sorry, post-run. Oh, post-run. I'll probably like post 30-mile run? Whatever it is. So say on average, if you look at a week of seven days, you're running six of those days. Yeah. Some are 20 miles, some are 10 miles. average day what are you eating on that day um just depends so like today i just did a small hour recovery run took my girl up there i'll usually have like some sort of like protein drink or like a slate milk or something like that just has kind of protein low carb but if i do a day that's like 20 miles i'm normally on a high protein low carb diet naturally that's what i usually do is i like the way that i look that way that's so interesting because you know every endurance athlete is not all the main the main thing is carbs isn't it yeah all carbs but that makes sense why the ketones work for you because it makes you be able to digest fats correct and convert them into and i also like my physique better when i'm not eating a ton of carbs unless i'm doing a ton of cardio right so like if i get done if i get done with a 30 mile run i'll go to a mediterranean spot get like double orders of chicken i'll get rice i'll get hummus i'll get two pita breads and that's it that's the day i'll do carbs but on a regular if it's not like a big run i'll primarily do high protein low carb and like you know when you see my air one meals It would be like three pieces of chicken or it would be like cream short rib with vegetables and avocado and cucumber salad.

29:55But if I do a big run, I'll have the steamed rice in there and something like that. But, yeah, other than that, so I'll hit the run in the morning. It's either a big meal or a small meal depending on the run. Then I'll go to the gym, hit like a 90-minute strength training session, and then I usually get in a hyperbaric chamber. I just do red light. Every day? Yeah, five days a week. About five days a week for hyperbaric and red light. How long are you doing hyperbaric? For about an hour. And that bed gets up to, what is it, four, what is that? It's like a BPA or some sort. It's something with the pressure.

30:27It's a high-pressure bed or a chamber. Why are you doing that? Usually at NexHealth. Okay. Yeah. And then I leave there, and then I go to my sports rehab spot, and I get worked on, and then I run the PEMF machine on my knees. It's like an electric pulse that literally has healed my tendonitis in my knees. And then I'll have the owner of that spot. He's a good friend of mine. he works on me and does like grass in and works my legs and then this is five times a week five times a week for sure with that yeah and then i get home and i'll hit the plunge the plunge and sauna you guys made me miss that tonight unless i do it when i get back but i only like to do that four to five days a week too so if i miss today i still got another six days oh that's crazy and that's kind of how the whole day goes and then i usually have i snack on a lot of shit too i'll be grabbing like beef jerky sticks or i'll have other protein drinks or sometimes i've been kind of laying off the smoothies i used to have a lot of smoothies a lot but i just think it's just a lot of fucking sugar yeah vanilla matcha yeah yeah one smoothie at 80 i'll take the vanilla matcha and i'll be at runyon canyon why don't you just loop he says i just grow like the biggest vagina every time i grab matcha and then he goes uh bro got the same one it was pretty fucking good he goes hey he's go would you grow a vagina with that drink and then and then and then like two Two days later, he'll be like, bro, that shit was fucking good.

31:47What's your current order at the moment, Josh? Whatever he gets. Yeah. He talks shit to me first and then he writes it down and then he orders everything. You know? Just want to perform like him, man. I think making it a little bit boring this podcast, like you mentioned there that you like to stay low carb, high protein. Yeah. And, you know, have fats instead of carbs most days. like when you're running on that you're training your body to be able to convert fats a little bit more correct and a little bit quicker so later into every race that you're doing what do you like you can only the science says that you can only have carbohydrates in your system uh if if your carbohydrates uh stores are full you can only exercise for 90 minutes right yeah so obviously you're taking on carbohydrates within the race so yeah but if you're only taking on 300 calories per hour and you're burning more than that seven eight hundred yeah you're always efficient anyway you're always going to be in a deficit so you're always going to need to convert fat right so he's training that every single day without really thinking about it correct what about i know you've

32:59George Heaton: been implementing speed a lot more now and i know you do a lot more speed work than like an eli would in terms of like how you're racing are you not needing to put more carbs around those type of sessions when you're doing a lot more faster efforts anaerobic stuff what about you do you feel like you need a lot of carbs when you're doing like speed work yeah i've just faced the fact that any event i do apart from the marathon like but high rocks half marathons like all that's all under 90 minutes so i don't need to work on converting fats faster you're good so I just have high carbohydrate all the time because I can convert them.

33:36That's how I feel. What about yourself? With speed work, I'm not... I think it's more just on the longer days than I'm eating the carbs. I also think I have a body dysmorphia issue since I've been a kid. You too?

33:51George Heaton: No, but you wouldn't say. I think that has a lot to do. No, it's all good. I'm all fucked up. You should see how much this guy eats. I know, he's in crazy shape. I'm shocked that you eat a lot of carbs. I eat like a horse. Yeah. I can't stop myself either. Yeah, he's crazy. I've never seen someone go far. You're ordering us all Air One tonight, right? Yeah, but he's going to need like four. That's good. We're at least 500 bucks in the hole just for his meal, huh? I want to go back onto it. Air One. How often do you have an Air One? Because it's so expensive. What do you think? Eight days a week?

34:24Yeah. Eight to nine. What I want to work out is... I'm there every day. If you're doing hyperbaric five days a week, you're having work done to you. You're having all these short ways to ask. Where's the money coming from? I told you he gave me 20 % of the company. I get residual every month from his company. Who's the sugar mama? Yeah, you are. I'm a sugar baby for him, you know? It's crazy. It shows how invested you are, though, and how dedicated you are into wanting to achieve your goals. Because you're spending a lot. You're investing a lot. Yeah, I spent my whole day either training or recovering, and then, you know, I feel like going into this next race, like, I'm not missing shit.

35:04Like, you know, like, I told myself every week I have to at least go in the sauna and the plunge four to five days a week. I at least need to get on the hyperbaric and red light five days a week. I feel good, though. Like, I haven't – it took me two months to recover from Moab. Like, you know, you told you it took you two months to recover from the E. I was fucked up after Moab, bro. Like, my knee – I couldn't even do a squat for, like, two months. What did you do in that time, then? Did you do absolutely no exercise? No, I worked out. I just was doing like smaller weeks, like maybe like 30 to 50 mile, 30, 50 mile weeks.

35:31And then, but I was broken every run. Like I was just like thinking, I started starting to worry. I was like, yo, am I going to pop back? And then I kept telling myself, damn, I thought I remember feeling like this last year when everything got better in January after the race. And then towards the end of December, I was like, oh my God, I feel back. Like I was like, I'm feeling back. And now I'm like, just, I feel like a hundred percent out there. I'm running these 30 mile days and waking up the next day, like ready to run again. Like I'm not like sore. It's insane. And how does the strength training help that?

36:01Oh, huge. And do you feel like it does? Huge. Yeah, the strength training is huge. I think if anyone wants to run a 200-mile race, you have to be strength training. Like, you cannot. How many times are you doing lower a week? About three. And then arms every other day? No, no, no. Yeah, I do. Just abs. I see them on the abs. Yeah, I just do arms, actually, even on my lower days. Got to crawl on the mountain sometimes. You hit lower today, I'm like, yep. That's it. But yeah, three days a week on the lower. And then, you know, one day it will be like chest, biceps, and triceps. That'll be like one day.

36:35And then another day we'll be back and shoulders. So you're doing like typical bodybuilding on top of the miles and the lower body. What about the lower body? Are you doing the same session three times a week? Yeah, it's pretty much the same three things every like Monday, Wednesday, Friday, or I switch it to Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday. What are the main lifts? A lot of band work. A lot of band work. Deadlifts. Yeah. Those are probably the most painful out of all of them. I use the really hard bands, and I'm sitting there just barely going like this. Boot thumps. Yeah, they hurt. They're bad. A lot of deadlifts.

37:10A lot of squats. A lot of Copenhagen planks. A lot of... To do any core work? A lot of core work. I usually do one or two full days of just straight core work. A lot of push-ups, pull-ups. um just cables uh ab rollouts just a lot of shit yeah i had this is the i've never used a coach before and basically i'm using uh my buddy killian who won all three of the 200 mile races last year and i i'm the worst listening to anybody in direction like nobody can tell me what to do and i've been listening to him and my whole game has fucking changed completely that's insane i want to touch on obviously before i probably say looking from the outside you when you're doing these long races whether it's 250 miles 300 miles your aim was always completion and now it's kind of switched to yeah to perform i like i never because i just kind of went in there and we're just like oh fuck it whatever happens happens you know like but i'm gonna get it done it's funny because the last race i finished at the same time david goggins did and i had some weird feeling we're gonna finish at the same time but i thought we were gonna finish maybe like 12 hours ahead of we did but we got stuck in the mud and stuff somehow we still finished at that same time like I'm not finished terribly.

38:25I'm either like top 20 or max like top 30, but like I'm not going in there with like a whole game plan. Like a lot of these guys are like science nerds with running and they have like every aid station planned out and every piece of food that goes on, but that's why they do well. And now I'm going into this next race doing that, doing that plan, you know? And now like, I feel like I've already proven to myself that I can complete these hard things. Now I'm like, all right, now I want to start doing, like I want to start, I want to start fucking competing with the big dogs now. So, so what things have you started to like incorporate?

38:51Right. Obviously, you mentioned paces before. The lower body strength training, I wasn't doing at all. And actually, like, Killian was shocked that I was even doing as well as I did with not even. I never worked out my legs ever. Basically winging it. Yeah, just winging it. Yeah. And that, my feeling is a lot different. And doing a lot of sprint and stride work now. Okay. And for the actual race, obviously, it's 300 miles. When are you allowed a pacer? Are you allowed a pacer from the start? No, no. I think at this race, it's like at mile 110 or 90 something. I don't know. I got to look at it.

39:25I think she may have changed it up this year. Most races, if they're like between 200 to like 250, usually get a pace around like mile 70 something. And is that self-navigation roughly? Yeah, you put it on your watch. The course is marked. Sometimes they're kind of marked shitty. So if you don't have it, you still get lost. Even when it's on your fucking watch, you start zoning out or you start talking to somebody that's running with you and then you're just kind of like, you're like, damn, we just went off by half a mile. And then you're just like laughing about it. And if you're miserable, you're pissed.

39:54You're like, oh, dude, I'm so fucking pissed right now. Because you just want to get to that aid station. And the second you get to the aid station, you're just trying to leave. It's like all you're doing is like chasing the next aid station. You never look at the whole map. Like I always look at aid station, the aid station on my watch. I'll never look at the whole map. What's the longest you'll stay at an aid station typically? Obviously, if we take away the naps and things like that. This race, I plan to stay no longer than two to four minutes at every aid station. The last races I was doing probably like 8 to 10 minutes, which was fast for me.

40:23Back in the day, when you're not caring about what your finish time was, dude, you get sucked in there. These guys are like, oh, come sit by the fire. We've got some burritos for you. Start telling you stories, dude. And you're like, fuck, you're there for like an hour. Sounds like my time for the break. You'll be there for like an hour. Imagine this is the aid station and the fire's fucking on. And George is sitting there miserable, shivering and just eating the burrito. And then you start talking to him. and I'm like, yo, are you going to move? You're like, no, I'm going to hang out with you in another 20 minutes.

40:50And then, like, the longer you sit, the longer you just don't want to get up. So, like, I remember at Moab, I got to an aid station, and, dude, I had missed the rain by, like, five seconds. And we're talking, like, somebody hated me and just threw a fucking cloud over my head and just dumped me five seconds before, like, completely drenched head to toe, like, two in the morning. It was already, like, 25, 30 degrees out. and I just get there and it's blowing wind everywhere. The tents are flying everywhere and there's just one fire there. And I'm like sitting there with like my feet over trying to get dry.

41:22And then I'm sitting there like, yo, what the fuck am I doing? I'm never going to get dry. Let's just fucking go back out there. Yeah. And I'm like sitting here talking to another dude that's like, oh, was a good runner. And I was trying to talk him into it. He's like, you're going to go back out there? And he looks over and like, it was like, just storming everywhere. And the thing was like blowing over. It's like fucking hats flying everywhere. Like, and he's like, no, I'm a chill. And then like, I just looked at my pacer and I was like, you want to go? He's like, yeah, hell yeah. He's all fresh.

41:44He's like, and I'm like, all right, fuck it. Let's just go. And then, you know, you just deal with it. That's so sick. Because you're just sitting there drenched anyway. Like, what am I going to do? Just like, I was so miserable. Like, I was so pissed. I was just like, fuck, I want to go home. You know? Like, you're just miserable. But you just, I've done so many of them now that I've just accepted that I'm just going to be fucking miserable for like these two, three days and I'm going home after that. So I just, I just accept the second I start. Like, everything is, you just start rashing up everywhere you get like infections like everything like just imagine all these rashes coming in between your thighs you have to run with them you're all this lubes down there just can't shit sometimes for like fucking two days straight like i just like you're just you have all these gels in your body can't even process what's going on has there been a time where either someone around you or yourself has like called it and you're like no no one will ever call it like by me like no one my team will never tell me to call it one time one time i like Like, my goal was to run, like, it was a Moab last year before this year.

42:43I remember I got to, like, mile 55, and I was like, I'm fucking done. That's it. I call my team up, and I'm like, yo, I'm done. I got heat exhaustion. Remember when I was, like, throwing up everywhere on those videos that went viral? They were good videos, actually. Yeah, they were good. That was great content.

42:58George Heaton: The best thing about him is when he's actually in the race, he's also active. Oh, yeah. I'll start posting on social media. I'll be DMing him, like, where are you, bro? Oh, the views and the engagement's out the roof. Everything's out the roof. because like everyone's it's like they're watching like hunger games bro they're seeing who's gonna live or die and like it's exciting to watch you know and most does it take your mind off it when you're in it um it's great like when i'm having to hike up hill like it just kills time you know and i'll bring a battery pack with me and like you know going to this next race wanting to podium i'm probably gonna like try to lay off doing it but if like you know we have a big hill to climb and i got service and fuck it like it's not stopping me from moving any faster you know so So, like, I'll try to get some stories up.

43:38But, dude, the engagement goes crazy during the race. Whatever you do does well. Like, it's not in a – I can, like, fucking post my toenail and just be like, oh, yeah, my toenail sucks. And it's, like, fucking three million views. You know, and it's just like –

43:49George Heaton: What comes next, right? So, first of all, it's finishing the races. Now it's trying to perform, podium, whatever. Does, like, the cross-country thing excite you? Or are you just into the races? Like, what is it? Where do you go from here? I don't know what's next. I kind of like, I don't know what's next. Maybe like Badwater doing like a straight 130 miles in the heat on the road. Like, I don't know. It sounds fucking retarded to me right now. But like, I just like, I don't really love road running. I like being on the mountain. What was the one that was on Netflix? Barkley Marathons. Did you ever do that?

44:25Oh, Barkley? Nah. It's not too interesting to me. Also, like I try to do things that I can also document. Yeah, yeah. You know, like that I can document in the moment and get people involved in and stuff. I don't know. I don't know. I never say never to anything. What about the elite side? So going over to kind of like UTMB? Yeah, I actually have an interest in running to UTMB. I deferred last year doing Leadville, and then I was going to run it again this year. But I was just like, I'm not really interested in 100-mile racing. Plus, this is my lane right now, running these 200-300-mile races.

44:54I know I have a shot at podium these races. 100-milers is a whole different time of training. And for me to even podium that race, I've got to drop 30 pounds and become a science nerd at running. You know, like those guys are super fucking fast. No, no. Yeah, like I say, it's turned into a professional sport. I heard that. 100 K is coming into the Olympics? I think. Really? Oh, but it's going to be on the road, right? It's going to be flat for sure. Yeah, I think so. Those guys like Jim Walmsley and all these guys will probably, I think David Roche and like these guys will probably be running those races.

45:24They're fast, bro. You see that Adidas thing the other day where they brought the record for the 100 K. Yeah, that was insane. Was that on a track? No, I think they made like a specific. Right. I root for it. Yeah. But going back to, like, you know, not this MOAB, but the last MOAB, I got to mile 55, and I was like, yo, I called up my boy, and I was like, my boy Steven, and he's just a badass. He's got a family. He's just a hard grinder, dude. And he always comes out and paces me, and he's like, I was like, yo, man, I'm done. He goes, what do you mean? I was like, bro, I've been throwing up for, like, the last 12 hours.

45:55I can't keep it. He's like, when's the last time you've thrown up? And I'm like, oh, it's been four hours. He's like, all right, bro, just come to the next aid station. You can quit here if you want. I'm like, no, bro, I'm done. And he's like, bro, shut the fuck up and come to the next aid station. And I'm like, dude, I'm telling you I'm done. I'm fucking done. I hang up the phone, and he texts me. He's like, all right, bro, hundreds of thousands of people watching you right now. I'm just going to quit on them, huh? Just look like a loser. They don't care what time you finish. They just want to see you finish.

46:19But if you want to look like a loser to them, we'll just come get you right now. And I go, fuck you. I'll see you in 12 miles. And I ran like a 630 pace on these like 12 miles, and then I was clocked back in. if it wasn't for him, I don't know. I may be, I may be, I may have stopped. I was that miserable. I was going to ask that. Is the, so is he the guy that you look up to? Is he the guy that you go to when you are struggling? We met at Moab the year before and we had to climb like one of the hardest mountains together. And we, it was called, it was the second, it's the second hardest mountain.

46:44It's called Shane Mountain. And it was like my first, it was my first 200 mile race. And like, it was miserable, bro. Cause I just didn't understand like how this shit worked. And we went through some, like, like, you know, it would be equivalent to like world war two back in the day, you know? We just fucking battled this thing together. There was tears. It was miserable. We called each other the Shea Mountain Boys after that. We just had some real brotherhood up there together. We just suffered together. After that time, he hadn't ran Moab the next two years, so he came and paced me, and he only paces me through that Shea Mountain part, and we do it together.

47:14Now it's kind of gotten easy for us. We just cruised through it. It's not easy, but we know what to expect now. We know what it is. It's crazy.

47:23George Heaton: I always talk about it. like the best bonding with someone is when you're going through a fucking horrible time together you don't forget that i don't i don't i never forget those people bro i have like so much respect for them too and like anyone that finished moab period i have respect for even this last year i'm like yo if you finish moab in the mud like there was literally waterfalls of mud it looked like we were in like fucking hell it was gnarly bro like we had water up to my my hips and just mud throughout like we're just running on rocks and mud through the feet the whole time and just slipping everywhere, no traction.

47:54I was like, yo, whoever finishes this race, I have respect for them. I don't care how long it takes them. It was fucking miserable. To keep your mind out there to want to keep running, it was fucking miserable. I'll do it again. But, like, it was so miserable in the moment. I said, I will fucking never do this shit again, ever. Like, I was that mad. And, like, there's a difference of, like, being so hot out there and being miserable. but like when I'm hot, I'm like, damn, I'll do anything for it to be cold. But out there, I was like, yo, I don't care if it's 150 degrees right now. I'll do anything to not be this miserably cold and like wet and muddy right now.

48:29Like you just want to be able to run. You can't run. Just slipping everywhere. That's mad. That's insane. I don't know. I'm feeling up for doing an ultra. Yeah. Are you inspired now? You guys, I've never crewed anybody, but if one of you two do a 200-miler, I'll come crew you guys. Okay, so it's not going to be me.

48:49George Heaton: It might be both of you guys together. I'd do it with you. Yeah. If we did a good training block for it, I'd love to. It'd be good for your YouTube, you know? I know you're trying to grow that YouTube. You're giving away Rolexes and shit. So this is... The thing is, this guy... He's pushing anything on there. Here, I'll give you... Going to date with my girlfriend for a night. Whatever it is. Take my dog for a day. That's a good idea. Stay at my house and stay the night for a night. Listen, right? This guy, this guy is a fucking insane athlete as well. He is a fucking beast. He needs to concentrate on his high rocks, right?

49:22George Heaton: But he seems to do everything else as well involved with that. Now, what do you think would be harder? Running a 200-mile race? Or Olympic trial marathon? Maybe Olympic trial marathon. Olympic trial is what, 216? 216, yeah. What was your last? I just did 222. That's close. I mean, it's a lot. That's a big guy as well. I know. I think it depends on your structure. Because for someone who is, I don't want to put this like, but someone who's a natural runner and is a perfect body composition for a runner, like they're at the optimal weight. It may be 65 kg. It may be 70 kg, whatever it is. It's definitely not 80, 90 kg.

50:05How much are you weighing at the moment in pounds? Pounds, like 195, 200. Right, okay. So 200 pounds. He's a big boy. Yeah. So I used to, when you met me, I was like 180. But I physically look better. I have to have less body fat for now. I just have more muscle. Now you're looking good. Yeah. You're looking jacked. So, yeah, that's it. Try and keep up with you, bro. Oh, that's one of the things that he... For someone like you, obviously, in my opinion, it's probably going to be more impressive if you got an Olympic qualifier because of the weight that you are. But if you're the optimal weight for running and you are a 70 kg, then running a 300-miler, 200-miler is going to be more impressive to me.

50:45Oh, really? I don't know. They're both incredible feats. They're so different. They are so different. One's performance-based and one is more mental. It's still performance, obviously. You've got to train for it. You've got to train fucking hard. But I don't think... I don't know. This is a question for you, to be fair. Do you think you can train that dog in you that will keep going no matter what? I always explain it as some people... When you train with someone, they either have it or they don't. And you can find out by training with someone whether they have that gear to push. To push for what?

51:27George Heaton: Well, just to... Where they will go further than what I'm doing now. Yeah, just give them 100%. Yeah, I think I'm not satisfied. I'm never satisfied. But you're lining up with people and people give up and you're like, oh, they've not got it. I wish they'd just finished that race. Yeah, I don't ever quit. I have to be so injured that I can't run anymore to like, I've only dropped out of one big race. And that's because like, I didn't have anything to prove. I was already, I was already 125 miles in when I got hurt, running around 120 miles. And then I got to mile 150 and even the medic saw me and she's like, you're going to have to walk the last 150.

52:01And I'm like, for what? Like at this point I'm thinking like, I might as well just get better and then jump into another race. Cause it wasn't like I had already ran multiple 200 plus mile races. So I was just like, what's the point of this? And I was in the, I was just coming into the top five. My plan was to podium the race last year. and the race that I'm going into now in the next two months. I think if we answer that question in another way, 300 miles or the Olympic qualifier, there are going to be probably less people running 300 miles. Correct. Than qualifying, getting that qualifying time.

52:34Because, yeah, I think that's going to become more and more common over the years. What will become more common? The qualifying time. Really? For the Olympics. Sorry, I think the US, because the qualifying time only happens really in the US. Over in the UK, we don't have the qualifiers. So that's where America does amazing because they make it a spectator sport. They make it interesting. Almost anyone who's good at running can have a chance at getting into the Olympic qualifiers because it's 2.16 over here. In the UK, it's 2.08. I think it's 208 that you've got to run and then you get selected for the Olympics and the committee selects you I think that's how it works so you've got on one side there's that and then two sides there are going to be hundreds of people in that qualifier but the winner is going to be 204 that's crazy different to a 216 that's a huge difference light years difference does that mean the guys that are going to oh so like Connor Mance just ran 204 I think.

53:39So are those guys going to be more those guys are going to do better than the Americans in the race or no? I mean like No, no. It depends. It depends. I think the record's close to two hours at the time for the marathon.

53:50George Heaton: Why do like when you're in a marathon block you're running and I don't know if I'm right or wrong around 100 miles a week. Yeah. And you're running She's running 100 miles a week for a marathon block and what are you running? 80 to 100. Which makes no sense to me. You're running for a two-hour race and you're running for a 200-mile race. But I do super long days on those. So, like, right, like I'll have, like, a 30-mile day and then I'll have a 20-mile day back-to-back and then I'll have, like, a day where I just do five miles and then another day where I just do five miles, which, like, five by 20 strides at the end.

54:21So it's just kind of, like, switching up. And then once I get closer to the race, I think I'm probably going to be doing, like, 30, 30, 30, three days in a row and then having all the rest light days just to kind of get, like, more of the feel. He's putting up, I don't know, is it the same? Yeah, you're going for, like, you're building up muscular endurance. Correct. I'm doing the same, but there's other people out there that are just going for a volume-based training block, and you'll have 10K runners. You'll have 5K runners that are running over 100 miles a week. Right. 5K runs over 100 miles a week?

54:54Why?

54:55George Heaton: Alfie does that. Alfie does that. So he's a 5 and 10K runner at the moment. He'll run 180 to 200 kilometers per week. So what's that, like 120 miles to 140 miles? What's the math behind that? So volume over everything. You're building your aerobic base and efficiency over time. So he's built up to that. And with running, they say volume is king. That's what they're saying. I think there's a guy called Ran to Japan, Jake something, and he's running upwards of 240 kilometers per week. For what race? So he's just training for, I think he's training for either half marathon or marathon. It's insane.

55:41So it's crazy the amount of volume, but it's completely different to how you're training for it. You're going at it with, you're building up them long days and time on feet. Obviously, you've got a goal in mind when you go out. You say, oh, I want to run 30 miles, but you're looking at the time on feet as well, I bet. And it's probably different training. The 30-mile days are supposed to be like six hours time on feet, and then I kind of try to get around. It's still, you know, sometimes it's five and a half hours, whatever it is. It's more like, I mean, they're going to go 30 miles or I'm just going to go do time on feet.

56:12But, yeah, the runs are based on time on feet for majority of them. Whereas I'd split up the same mileage, but I might do two or three runs that day. Right. Oh, split up in the day. Yeah, so I always do doubles, and the max I'll probably be running, unless it's my long run on a weekend, max I'll be running is 90 minutes in one go. And right now you're training hard like that or no?

56:35George Heaton: Even in your marathon block towards the end, that's the max, 90 minutes. 90 minutes in one goal, but I'll have a long run where I'll do a marathon-specific session where it might go over to two hours, two hours 20. I like to hit whatever I'm going to be running for in the marathon. Like time-wise, that's what I like to hit at least once a week just so I'm building that work capacity. I'm practicing, actually working hard for that long. but I'm never ever ever going to be doing six hours on my feet right in one go too much yeah it's too taxing and it is taxing like the first the first week we did it was two weeks ago I woke up pretty good the next day other than like the tops of my ass cheeks were sore because I didn't bring poles and we were we climbed yeah that was a different pole that was yeah yeah that's why I was at George's house the night before actually

57:24his dog his dog stuck in the room but i was getting crazy i could never wait he said it was he said it was a dog it wasn't him i don't know i was i was asleep it's crazy anyways uh back on track i don't know where you are yeah i don't know um but i didn't have the poles and we climbed around like maybe 5 500 feet something like that it was just a lot of climbing. So my legs weren't that sore. Maybe two days later, they were a little sore. But then this next week, on Thursday, I ran 31 miles. And I woke up fine the next day. And on Saturday, I was completely fine. So I was like, all right, now my body's adjusting to it all, which is great.

58:00That's what we want, you know? So this week, I kind of feel, and I felt good running the full 31 miles. Like, I just fueled right. And how far are you out now from me, right? About like two months and about like 65 days, 66 days, 67 days, something like that. Okay. A little over two months. You said you're being coached at the moment, and I assume he's coaching you day by day. Pretty much. Yeah, everything's day by day. So if you wake up and you're feeling sick, you've got a cold, you're not feeling it, whatever it is, are you still getting the miles in? Or is there specific things where you're like, nah, I'm going to rest or I'll go tomorrow?

58:36I've got to be really fucking sick to not train. If I'm sick, I usually go train. I've got to be really fucked up where I'm throwing up everywhere, I got nothing in my system and I'm barely walking maybe having to go to the hospital at the point other than that like If I'm sick, I'm usually training see see for me That is the difference between training for performance. Yeah training for war you're training for war Correct. It's like yeah, you're going out there and you're battling demons No matter what like if you're feeling that yeah, if you're feeling sick, you're never gonna stop correct If you're feeling tired if you're ill you're not stopping no matter what so you better train like that in your training, whereas training for performance, you might have to be, call it smarter, call it just more specific, but if you're sick, then you might not, you're looking for an adaptation within your training and you might not recover from that.

59:29So it's better to push it back. They're two different worlds, aren't they?

59:33George Heaton: At the end of the day, they're two completely different worlds. But do you think it takes the same mentality to do either one? no i think i think personally ultra endurance you need more mental strength in one go correct and with the performance goal you need more dedication right over a long prolonged period because it's not just and don't get me wrong you have so much dedication like you said that you need consistency to do what i'm doing as well too yeah yeah you've been nailing every single day i what you're saying though and kind of the difference of it but even to the point where like a a night out will affect what you're going to be doing in six like six weeks time yeah whereas it might not specifically have the same effect with you it might even help because you you're sleep deprived you're practicing being sleep deprived correct right sometimes like if there's like an event or something and i'm out and i'm like out till three in the morning i'm like fuck it i'm I'm just staying up and I'm going to run.

1:00:35You know what's crazy? That's good practice, though. Yeah, it is. And it's crazy because, like, I don't know. I never get sore during a 200, 300-mile race because I don't rest enough. So, like, say, like, normally I'd be sore the next day if I just don't sleep much. Even if I lay down for an hour or two and I get up, I run the best I ever ran. But then the next day, my body's fucked up. But I think it's the same thing in the races because every time I race, my team's like, yo, you don't need to get rolled out or anything. I'm like, no, I'm good. I don't feel sore eating at all. I'm good. Let's just keep going.

1:01:04And then I don't feel shit until, like, a day or two after the race.

1:01:09George Heaton: so performance is very detailed and granular and endurance is very grit and determination what if you right what if my theory is now that eli lives the next eight weeks or whatever it is to this race or next year and does it for a full year lives the life of a performance athlete where every single detail matters and he's also doing the grit and the determination of running 30 miles a day at fucking six hours a day how what happens then i think he he wins like he he he gets faster over that time distance like now you've started implementing speed you've got yourself a coach correct you're gonna see an improvement in the next race or you'd hope to i don't know a lot of these races it all depends on anything on the day the weather you got it you got it yeah you got it you got to come then you have to you have to come clean to that fucking race like you can't have problems and do good like it's like it's very rare that that happens like you just have to have a fucking good day well good three days but like you have to have a good day when you get there like i gotta feel fresh when i get in that fucking race i explain it like almost like a an f1 f1 car and like a 4x4 like a 4x4 is resilient it can go over any bump yeah which we found out at speed project didn't we tommy were you there too yeah yeah so we we burst both tires on the 4 before what'd you say we burst both tires so we oh yeah yeah move but uh so you and you and uh you and george held at the back and ran when they carried off actually so george was asleep in the back at this time so we got a puncture george was completely asleep in the back of the truck bearing in mind I just drove another truck into the truck to drive the truck one of our cars was a we thought we had two trucks that were 4x4 and one wasn't a 4x4 we didn't realise we went into these fucking sand dunes and it got stuck so we were pushing it with the other car to a point where we got it out of the dunes and then the tyre popped on the 4x4 and we drove off in the 4x4 yeah it was fucked it was the funniest night ever and he just ran off on his own for like 10, 20 miles, I think.

1:03:27George Heaton: Yeah. Felt like you. Value me for a second? Just for a second. I didn't get a phone call or anything. Do you know that? Let me know. When I drove from where we stopped to where I found you running, that felt like about fucking six hours. And I was driving thinking, I don't know where the fuck you are. This is the weirdest route ever. It was a bit rogue because we ran off. We had no water. We had a phone that was on like 7%. no batteries or anything and we could see it was in the middle of the desert nowhere nothing we couldn't see any lights and I started panicking I was like shit it was also like a ride the flow was like a ride the terrain was just fucking it was batonar in and I thought I'm getting a bit thirsty it started getting warm and like just I thought oh shit we can't see any lights and then what's the maddest thing you've seen on these runs oh man I had some crazy hallucinations, bro.

1:04:25Yeah, crazy hallucinations out there. I hallucinate almost every race, probably starting around, like, mile 70, just seeing shit the whole time. Do you remember when I— Did you kind of lean into it? Yeah. I mean, last race, my boy made me, like, that's a— You know that video that went viral? I was, like, against a tree asleep. I, like, wasn't talking to anybody during the race and, like, opened up my phone, and I saw George's name pop up. And, like, I love George, so I was like, fuck it. I'm going to respond to him, you know? When I do those races, I have about 5 ,000, 6 ,000 DMs. It's fucking gnarly.

1:04:58It took me two to three weeks as I get back to everybody. I always try to respond back to everybody. You got to, and you're the same way. Those are the people that support you. I always do my best to try to get back. The DMs are crazy. I saw George's name drop down. I open it. I don't know what the fuck I said to you. I said something crazy. Now George's name is in my head. That's all that's in my head while I'm hallucinating. and I think we're like close to 200 miles into the race and I hadn't really slept much at all. And I'm just like, yo, Georgie says he's not coming. And my pacer's like, huh?

1:05:33And I'm like, yo, you missed the meeting. Don't worry about it. And he's like, what are you fucking talking about? I said, Georgie says you're not good. And he's like, dude, what the fuck are you talking about? I'm like, don't worry. You fucking missed the meeting. You're not part of this fucking conversation anymore. And he looks at me. He's like, my dude, please sit over here. He just sat me down by a tree. I hit the tree and just knocked out the second I hit it. and he covered me in like tree branches and he filmed it and I ended up uploading it once I woke up five minutes later and the video went viral because I'm just fucking out cold.

1:05:59I kept talking about him the whole time out there and I didn't know and then he's like, he's like, yo, who the fuck is Georgie, bro? And I'm like, bro, you don't know Georgie? And I started like, are you? I kept calling him Georgie too. That's the crazy part. Does anyone else call you Georgie? Nah, that's just the thing. That's me and him, yeah. I'm just like mumbling, mumbling, yeah, Georgie, Georgie, like just like talking to myself and just seeing shit and yeah you see all kinds of shit bro what about the video where like you're

1:06:25George Heaton: running into i think you're into an aid station and you your girlfriend at the time's there and you didn't even know it was her oh yeah that was funny she she came to like surprise me at the race and she like literally walks up to me i just go right past her i look right at her and i just walk past her that's how out of it you are you know just gone and i wasn't expecting her to be there so like i'm just like who's this fucking person walking up on me like this she's like walking up to give me like trying to do like a cute video you know and i'm just like i just like walk up and i just walk right back have you ever like hallucinated like in the dark and seen something oh yeah you just see shit all the time i uh at tahoe what's the maddest thing you've seen dude i saw i was on the phone talking with some girl i was talking to at that time and i'm just like having a full conversation there was service and i'm just like dude I was like there's a whole family out here barbecuing right now I was like yo am I tripping is it 11 o 'clock at night she's like yeah it is and I'm like yeah there's like uh kids running around there's a full barbecue full family like pickup trucks everything got up there it was literally fucking bushes and trees and I just got there and she's like yo you good and I'm like I'm fucking tripping and I just fucking kept running and I'll start arguing then I'm like yo do you see that old lady walking up there with a cane and she's like dude there's nobody there I'm like yes she is we're about to hit her and we get there and it's like a fucking cactus and i i'm tripping i'll just start looking at it like this and i just start laughing i just keep moving you see like you just see shit the whole time bro like i saw like another one at tahoe like i saw a bunch of people like in black hoodies throwing like nunchucks and like a bunch of black bears everywhere and then nothing was there just like you just see shit all the time do you ever stop running because of it no no it doesn't impair the running like you just see shit all the time though and like sometimes i'll have a pacer that's out there with me for like 70 plus miles and i'm like yo do you see like that couple in the wood up there and he's like yeah i see it too and i'm like i'm not tripping right and he goes no it's there and then we both get there and we go fuck we're both tripping right now but he's seeing the same shit i'm seeing so you just got to get into the hallucinations but they're almost fun but sometimes i start like tripping so hard that i'm like i just start looking at the ground because i just like you start seeing too much shit yeah imagine if he was pacing though yeah a bit freaky that wouldn't It feels like you're hallucinating But you operate completely fine I can still run I'm still remembering to eat You're just seeing shit It doesn't make you go, oh my god, I'm not going to run anymore You're just like, yo, I'm fucking tripping You know?

1:08:55And now that I've done it so many times, I know it's coming You know? Now I'm starting to see leprechauns and shit running around Like, yeah, it's coming, you know? How far are you going to take it? Do you think 300 miles is the limit for you? Yeah, what is the... The biggest race right now in the U.S., I think right now, that's kind of like a known race sanctioned is 300 miles. I mean, there's other people doing these 1 ,000-mile things and 2 ,000 miles on these trails or whatever it is.

1:09:24George Heaton: What's your opinion on that? That's what I was trying to get out earlier. Why do you go from the 300-mile race? Do you like doing races? Yeah, I like doing races. I like to document them. I like the hype on them. I like it because it's real as well. No one can say you've not done it. Yeah, and I think I'm kind of doing the hardest things out there, and I'm kind of sticking to doing things, like I said, that I can document, that I think people would like to follow along on, that I think would be cool, and also that I feel accomplished doing. There's people that do crazy hard shit all the time that get no eyes on it.

1:09:59They just kind of do it, and I think they're trying to get eyes on it, but it's not there.

1:10:03George Heaton: you know so do you think that's because you built your presence up in social media prior and during and you understand how to work the algorithms and as well like you're not a usual correct yeah you're not a 50 year old guy with a long beard that doesn't have social media correct um and you look different and you talk different and what you do is different yeah i have a back story too right so like i have a different story than anybody else that does what i'm doing there's not anybody else with my story so yeah i also i like i also try to like i go into races where i know dope people are doing it too like i'm like all right cool there's a bunch of fucking badasses doing this race i want to toe the line with these guys i know i'm not going to beat them but i still want to toe the line on them see where i even land and that's why now i'm at a spot where i'm like all right i can podium and i think i can fucking be here with these guys now yeah and that's because i keep putting myself into these races that they're all in no i don't when i see someone do something i'm like all right cool i could do that too like i don't ever think anyone's better than me i just need like all right what are they doing that's different or how do they figure this out better you know and now i feel like i'm at that point where i'm like all right cool i think i can accomplish a lot more how does it feel obviously four or five years ago reading david goggins book and then obviously finishing the last race with him yeah that was at moab right yeah i don't know that was kind of it was it's funny because he like ran up on me he caught up on me like at mile 26 and that's kind of where we had our first interaction we're kind of bullshit and talking about you know i was like oh i know cam and then and that's kind of how we started talking and then it's funny because the guys behind me like yo i try to talk to him he just like just stone cold faced me he wouldn't say anything to me and like you know it was like it was kind of it was just it was just funny and i don't like i don't like look up to anybody and i don't like fan out over anybody but he's done a lot of cool shit man he's done a lot of shit for the sport did you fun boy huh did you fun no not at all yeah kept it together even at the end of the race like i Did you ask for a selfie?

1:11:52Right when we finished. Huh? Did you ask for a selfie? No. No, and funny, at the end of the race, I kind of, like, he turned around. He knew I was right on him because he was watching my headlamp. I was chasing him down for, like, the last fucking three, four miles. He was just fucking, well, it was, like, the last 17 miles, actually. Like, he kept seeing me. My pacer was like, oh, I saw their headlight turn around. They see us. They keep trying to jump. I was like, fuck that. Let's get these motherfuckers, you know? And then I kept going, like, ah, whatever. We're not going to get them. And then, like, on the last three-mile stretch, we kind of saw him, like, maybe, like, a quarter-mile, half-mile ahead, something like that, like, around the corners.

1:12:25And then my boy was like, fuck it, let's book it. And we started hitting, like, a six-minute mile. And probably somewhere between the 530s to 6s. We were fucking – I was booking it. Like, just, like – and then right at the end, he turns around and sees me. And then I was just like, eh, this is a bitch move to, like, try to, like, pass him right at the fucking end. I was like – so he knew it. He knew, like, fucking – he turns the corner. He goes in. and then like on paper I finished eight seconds behind so he finishes, right when he hits the finish he turns around and you just see me peel the corner and then I come in and he's waiting for me to say like what up to me and then the second he says what up to me, I try to leave because I didn't want to steal a spotlight and then he kept going hey, hey man, come here come here, come over here dog my fucking knees dog, he starts going off about his knees I thought, I got a broken toe and he's like, I got a lot of spec for you bro, we were throwing down 530s dog and then like, you know, we're just kind of bullshitting and that's kind of how the whole interaction happened and it was cool man by the way huh that's a really good yeah it was on video so it was cool it was all over the internet it was fucking i'm you see me on these random pages every fucking day right like he always sends it to all

1:13:28George Heaton: of them yeah not this shit yeah yeah they're all over the internet they're it was cool man it was definitely uh you know sick moment yeah sick moment dude because i definitely talk about him in my book you know he inspired me to make my audible the way that he did his and like i said I don't really look up to anybody, but I relate a lot to his life after reading his book and the way that he moves. And I just kind of like how he doesn't give a fuck what anybody thinks about him. He doesn't take brand deals. He just doesn't care. He just kind of does his thing. And he is that way in person. He is a nice guy, though.

1:14:00A lot of people, I think he puts off that he's very standoffish on Instagram and stuff like that. But if he wants to talk to you and likes you, you can see at the end of the race, he's going to do it. So it was cool. that definitely was like a fucking full circle moment for me you know five years ago i was fucking canceled and fucking coming off drugs and you know i never thought i'd be fucking running a 240 fucking mile race you know the reason why he's he talks to you and respects

1:14:30George Heaton: you is because of you're able to show that you're doing the same shit that he's correct that's why he's going to talk to you correct yeah you've got to you've got to understand that like you've built this thing where you're able to get to get to that level of of having the guy that everyone in running looks up to every single person correct and like jake says fanboy of course you'd fucking fan but i'd fan yeah he was the god of fucking ultra running like yeah you get that respect from him because you're doing the same thing correct saying i fucking love that shit yeah it was definitely uh it was definitely a turning point into like i feel like a little bit in my running career too like it was just like like george connie's like yo i thought i don't know what you said you're like oh i fucking love you or something like under the post george would never say shit like that normally he's like yo fuck you bitch i'm usually a troll yeah he was he was he was hyped up on that you know i think everyone was shocked i think the first video i put up when i was running with him you're like yo what the fuck i did everybody in that race eli is the one with him and like it was it is kind of crazy and it was like when i went on cam haynes podcast like five days after the race like he was like yo you just you just know how to market in the moment like you didn't even fucking know him you fucking told him that you knew me and then you fucking put up a video collab me on the video you hype me up i wanted to be in the fucking race he's like and i think that was your ability from nightlife and you knew how to network and fucking connect people and you just know how to do shit on the spot you just kind of see what to do you know how to market and you know how to talk and you just fucking did it and five years ago you were nobody in this fucking sport now you're finishing with goggins you're on my fucking podcast you know what the fuck you're doing you know it's insane so and now people are going to be looking up and inspired by you correct the same way that you was inspired by goggy correct you know it's funny i want to tell you this but when he he first introduced me to you i was like oh who's this guy just fucking this guy that's a good physique doing some fucking high rock shit and and then literally following you over the years i've gained so much respect for you like i was shocked to see how fast you were running these marathons i was like yo i got a fucking lot of respect for you because i used to run marathons in my last marathon i ran like a 230 249 and that was like in 2020 when I was nowhere near had the mental or whatever I could do.

1:16:34I know I could probably What do you reckon you could do? I reckon next race if I did a marathon I could do a 239 and I think if I did that then I could drop this thing way down. Like I think I could do it. I did a 249 when I was just coming off drinking and doing fucking drugs and had zero idea what the fuck I was doing with running. You know there was no game plan. I would just get on there and just fucking run. I wouldn't even I had like one gel the whole race. You know there was no math or science to the fucking carbs of the food that I was bringing down. So, yeah, dude, you know, you said a lot of respect for me.

1:17:04I have a lot of respect for you, dude. Like, you fucking accomplished some fucking dope times. Every time I see you push your fucking medal with your shirt off.

1:17:12George Heaton: He's smiling. He's like standing there. I'm like, what is this, another fucking 3K? And then I look, and I'm like, fucking no way, dude. This guy's running a fucking 220-something marathon. Like, that's fucking mental. It's fucking dope, man. And I know that you do it now. I know that you do it now and you see other guys running that are fast so you probably don't think that highly of yourself the way that I do when I finish a 300 mile race or whatever it is but I know how hard it is to fucking running a marathon fast is a lot of fucking work you're miserable it's a lot faster than running a 300 mile race but to run speed work over and over again for that long for 26 miles, it's fucking miserable you're fucking pumping full fucking iron so yeah, I got a lot of respect for you dude like and and i told you you're just some like you know little fucking like chiseled up dude at the start you know that's fucking met through george at the gym and that was it and then fucking you weren't doing that at that time when we met you were just kind of doing high rock stuff just high rock yeah yeah yeah that's my day job we've all evolved he's always had it in him though this guy like i remember yeah when i met him bro i was like what the fuck this i've never seen anyone like this but we've all evolved you know like we've all we've all fucking leveled up you know No one stays stagnant.

1:18:24Maybe George. He's just kind of playing with his dog. And he's got this sub three. No, I'm kidding. Everyone's involved in this group. It's dope. That's why we're all sitting here together. If we didn't, we wouldn't be fucking talking right now.

1:18:36George Heaton: And enjoying it and loving it. It's fucking great. We got to get... He's got to get our money up, and we got to get his mile times up. You know? So that's where it's at. Yeah, we're coming in. We have to get a sub three on LA. I'll give you a piece of the 20 % he's giving me, so you get a piece of 20 % represent, you know? there we go it's coming in we'll all be rich yeah we'll all be able to afford well no we'll just all move in here together alright okay we'll save money we just split it three ways I like to think of it as we're all pacing each other in different ways correct that is everyone's holding each other accountable being being serious and isn't it fucking great that you can open your phone and you can see what all these guys are doing everyone everyone's stories out there and you just fucking watch it me and him do watch each other's our shit just comes up at the top of our feeds I think because me and him just bullshit so much So you guys start sending us some fucked up reels.

1:19:25He does that. He does? Yeah, I need to be. We need to start. You see our group chats are already moving. It's good, huh? That's great. Look, I already been canceled and came back from it. I'll help you guys write a book you guys want after. People want to come back. You guys are too boring right now, bro. You guys need to get shot down a little bit. They got to bury you. Then you got to come back. No one thought I was coming back. And look at me now. you know so how do you actually feel now like with everything that you've achieved over the last couple of years i feel good man like with everything that i went through like you know you i went through a point where like i'm like yo like what the fuck am i gonna do i i didn't know what the fuck i was gonna do when i went through everything that i went through like i it feels good bro like it definitely feels good it feels good to have so much fucked up shit said about you and still come out on top like it's fucking great i love it i actually i love that i have a comeback story because i think without that comeback story i'd still probably be doing drugs running some sort of fucking nightclub i might might i might be dead like i just like i feel like everything happens for a reason you know you know one thing actually about you is that

1:20:32George Heaton: i didn't even know your back backstory from before i met you till i read the book oh yeah you know what's funny is i thought this guy read my book like long time ago and like he had just read it, him and Michael read it this past, this last couple months ago, right? Pretty much after, it was either after I did Moab or it was right before, it was after Andy Farsilla's podcast. It was one of the two. No, it was before then. I think, yeah, it was last summer. Last summer. It was right after I did Andy's podcast. That was it. That's it. Once I did Andy Farsilla's podcast, he was like, that's his dad.

1:21:01Yeah, because you were talking about it. He looked up to Andy when he got into the business and he listened to a lot of what Andy said. Andy's a smart motherfucker and once I did Andy's podcast, Andy co-signed me, then George's like you know what I'll read his book that's true

1:21:13George Heaton: because Andy Koscien's fucking nobody if you get on his podcast he doesn't put anybody on his podcast he's got to really fuck with you like as a human being like it doesn't matter he doesn't he's not he doesn't need nobody he's in the top 10 podcasts of the fucking world on Apple every week just with two him and his boy talking shit that's how much people like to listen to him talk so he doesn't care about putting people on he's just got to like you like you said about Goggins before like you wouldn't fanboy and shit like that but like there's people in your life that change your life for what they're doing he's one of them for me so yeah I love that guy he asked me on the way here he's like yo when's Andy F pulling up with you we still gotta go over there yeah I gotta get you I gotta get you to come with me he likes you every day George Heaton represent guys he tell that guy I like that guy a lot I fuck with him if there's anyone listening that's going through a bit of shit what advice would you give to them look man like I think as long as you know you're a good person deep down and you didn't do no fucked up shit and whatever it is you're going through like I think like there's there's always a light at the end of the fucking tunnel and even if you did some fucked up shit and you know you can always turn your life around you know and it's just like where does it start though like you can have that's got to be belief in yourself right like you know when I

1:22:35it's just like because I get dms every day about this shit they're like yo I'm in a low my wife left me my wife cheated on me this happened i lost everything i lost that like dude i went through fucking rock fucking bottom bro and like i knew deep down though like i would figure i always figure it the fuck out that's how i think you know so i think like for anybody else out there like huh you're a problem yeah and like you know i used to always tell my dad when he was around and shit like i'll figure it the fuck out i don't need your help you know like i'll always figure it out like i think because my daddy still was he always wanted me to come move back home just to be with the family.

1:23:08But I'm like, nah, if I move back home, I feel like I'm going to get lazy. If I get lazy, then I'm not going to grind. So I just think there's always a light at the end of the tunnel. And I think that no matter what shitty time you're going through, it gets better eventually. But you have to have the mindset that it's going to get better. And in the moment, it feels like nothing's going to get better. And I remember when I went through my shit, I remember just looking in the mirror, I fucking cried, and I was like, fuck, this is what it feels like to want to kill yourself. I would never do it.

1:23:33I knew I would never do that to myself, but I felt it I was like fuck this sucks like this sucks so bad the whole world hates me right now over something I didn't even fucking do but that was my motivation right there I was like I know I didn't do this shit right so I was like I know I didn't do this shit and my story's out on the internet you want to go fucking read I wrote a whole book on it you guys can look it up and I was like I'm gonna fucking fight back and then that was it and I was like I'm gonna write a book that's gonna be my testimony and I'm gonna fucking write my book and figure it out after that I guess

1:24:03George Heaton: how do you get the motivation to fight back when you're in a low like what the the people that are dming you the people that are stuck in life or almost giving up fucked up yeah like how do you and i know i i think it's a certain personality that you've got to have where you've got to use the yeah it's like i agree with you on that i think like you you can't have a weak mentality no but how do you get to the strong mentality yeah that's i think it has to do with a personality too like you said like i think like it's such a tough one to answer because i could say like oh you have to do this you have to do that that but like some of these people they're just like they don't they don't know what direction to go right i think for me i was raised to always fight you know like my dad was that way he was a fighter he came out here as an immigrant didn't fucking know immigrant didn't know anybody and you know just fucking his dad died when he was a kid he took care of his mom his four sisters and i and i watched that i watched how my dad moved and i I was like, yeah, fuck that.

1:25:01Like, I turned out to be like him, where I was just like, fuck it. I'll do whatever it takes to make it. Some people don't have that in them. So it's hard for me if someone writes me that is at an all-time low, I can tell them to keep going and keep fighting and that, like, it's going to get better, but, like, I don't know how they think. So it's almost like, how do you answer that fully? How would you answer that?

1:25:22George Heaton: I think it's situational on how you brought up and what. there's something about having a little like a spark of something can trigger um it can trigger anything where it's like it's confidence or it's like a little compounding interest of something that works and even if that message of that guy he maybe is in the lowest of the lows he could ever be in and he doesn't have the motivation to do something your message back could just trigger something correct fuck sick i'm gonna look at that every single day and today i'm gonna go out and let's say it's running. Today I'm going to go out and fucking put my shoes on.

1:26:00George Heaton: And then the next day I'm going to fucking tie them shoes. And the next day I'm going to relook at that message and I'm going to run fucking 500 meters. The next day I'm going to run 1K. And then after a fucking few years, he's looking back and he's like, shit, I've actually made progress. And then you kind of become obsessed with the progress. And yeah, it's not going to be the 100 mile to 200 mile to 300 mile, but at least he's doing fucking something. And I think there's just a little spark, a little trigger that can help anyone get to that. Even if you've got the shittest mindset that in the world i think like me sharing my story too some people write me i'm like yo have you read my book and they're low and they read it and they're like yo this shit changed my life i'm fucking i'm back on my feet i got sober blah blah like i get dms every single day either about my book or that i i help change these people's lives like every day there's not one that doesn't miss i don't have messages and like i'm sure you get the same thing with your company and your brand and like which is why i'm saying i think just one thing can just spark it yes even if you've you're not that guy and you're fucking depressed and you're down and you've just replying back to these people like just one reply this person is doesn't have a following or anything and they write me i don't give a fuck i look at their message i see what they write and i'll be like dude find a hobby that you love to do every find something find something running i was like i fucking hate i don't love running it's not something i love to do i do it because i know how i feel i feel fucking great after it's something hard that pushes me every fucking day and it's almost like i've replaced drugs and alcohol with running you know this became an addiction i feel good after it's all i'm like yo find something that you like to do and do it every single fucking day and I always tell them that and every message is different like you said like it depends on what this person writes me but I know my response back to these people they're like yo I never thought you'd reply thank you so much I'll fucking I'm gonna listen to what you said I'm fucking I'm gonna go do it you know and that's it they'll screenshot that message sometimes I'll like take the message and tag it in their stories and be like fuck yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna fucking do this you know and it's just like takes nothing for us to reply it takes fucking nothing man so many people write me and they're like dude every time I message big accounts like this they never reply you're a fucking badass and i said on cam's podcast that i reply to every message and there's people that tested me and they're like holy fuck you do respond and it took me sometimes weeks because at that time it was fucking crazy but like i get back my shit was lagging so bad that it was like because i was trying to go to like the bottom like i was trying to get back to like right when i started moab you know because that's when it starts going crazy and like it was so laggy but every time i'd get on i would do like incline treadmill work i'd be on treadmill for two hours out of the store I spend 30 minutes a day on there just fucking trying to reply back to people maybe if I get like 50 to 100 a day I can have this done in a couple weeks you know that's crazy for me I think obviously you can have people in your circle and you want to surround yourself with people that inspire you but I think the beauty of social media is you don't actually need that circle in physical life you can follow people like you and when you're in that low you open up your phone and you're like these guys are doing crazy stuff they're inspiring every day I want to go and do that you know sometimes sometimes it's quite toxic when you you need a rest day, you open up your phone and you're like fuck this guy's running again oh yeah the worst is when I get a fucking DM and I'm like oh yeah I'm going to take it light and they're like oh man I can't wait for your run the next day I see your shit and it gets me up and I'm like fuck this guy all right i guess i'm gonna hit the three hour today instead of fucking just hitting the weights you know or like you know those dms like i'll like even if i'm like going on i'll be on my drive on the run and i'll like look at my phone and i'll see like yo man your runs inspiring me i'll start reading those and i'm like fuck fuck this kid dude fuck this motherfucker i guess i'm gonna hit the fucking six hour today you know it's like it's good though man i open up those messages and i'm like yeah this is this is the reason why this is a lot of the reason why i fucking do this shit like these guys are fucking hyped to see the fucking stories every day on the mountain like they love it so it gets them up especially my morning video i'm usually up before everyone else and i'm on the fucking mountain top of the mountain and they're like fuck this guy i guess i gotta go to the fucking gym that's good bro that shit inspires me you'll be sitting at the house you're like all right fuck it i'm gonna go hit the gym you're up now you're starting to get up before me but that's because you have to deal with work stuff over to overseas huh yeah but it's inspiring man and that's fucking that's what's so good about it and I know there's a lot of people that like to complain about social media and say it's bad for us and it's toxic.

1:30:18George Heaton: There's a lot of great shit. But at the end of the day, if you follow the right people and do the right things based on what they do and say, then it's not a bad fucking thing. Yeah. I mean, if you follow George, you get a lot of negative comments in your feed, but he does a lot of fucked up shit. But, you know. He is a troll. Yeah, he is a little bit. You can do it if you want. Look, I just like... The thing is, right, when you're a social media channel and all you do is post pictures or videos people don't know you do have fun and you can enjoy having fun on social media as well not just behind closed doors I can have fun with you I love to make sure that it's always the top comment that gets loads of likes you get more likes on your comment than I do on my post because we'd like to have a little bit of fun it makes your engagement better on your post the 30 day views are up, that means the money's up on the brand deals, bro.

1:31:15Our Red Bull's paying you 50k a month, bro. Not everything has to be

1:31:22George Heaton: transactional or like, you know, an athlete of a brand and you get paid a certain amount and you do a certain amount of posts a day. Now, for me, it's like, let's fucking have fun. Let's enjoy life together. Let's do crazy things. Me and this guy talk shit all day. Yeah, all day. You got it. That's what makes us us, you know? It can't be vanilla. Everyone does. It's just the way you do it. Yeah. What's your advice for me on social media? You're all serious, huh? Yeah, I'm a little bit too serious, I think. I don't know. It's kind of your brand a little bit. You can spice it up. Now that we've got this podcast, it's going to be the start of it.

1:31:55George Heaton: I had a chef come and cook dinner for everyone, for the team. I don't have a fucking chef. He came and cooked dinner. He's definitely not here at night. The food's empty on the fucking table. I'm actually starving right now. I've got food in there. He came and cooked dinner for the whole rap team here in LA, lad from Manchester, Johnny Marsh. And he was like, he fucking loves your Instagram. It was like Jake did. And the way he does everything, the way he posts, the way he talks. So you got to think, even when you think you're not doing enough or you're not doing the right things, everyone's looking at you and realizing you do do a lot and you do good things.

1:32:33George Heaton: And the content is fucking amazing. Yeah. Like, hand on heart, you probably got the best content of any high rocks, athlete, fucking marathon runner, whatever you have. Thank you, Tommy. Tommy's over there. I do have a few things to say. All right. That was way too much. Yeah, but that keeps your fucking engagement up. I think, like, well, like. I'm more about quality over quality. I'm a little more. I am a little more like you two, though. I want to be posting more, but, like, I think, like, your model works, though, too. Because even if, like, three posts do decent, then that fourth one will fucking hit.

1:33:14You know, it's like the other day you posted one of you running up towards with your shirt off. Those are the ones that always do good. You're half naked, you know. Your physique is, like, a 20 out of 10 compared to most men in the world, you know. I feel like you guys need to butt. Where's the butt? You need to start giving me some shit.

1:33:31George Heaton: No, I'm not. No, no, no. For me, it's just overwhelming the amount. That's all. I like your shit. I like seeing you on the feed every day. I think people that follow you, they like to see shit posted every day. But me and George are definitely, we post stories every day. I feel like that's more mysterious, though. I like that about you guys. I'm just more calculated and organized, and I think that comes from my nightlife pass. But I think engagement with numbers, like overall in the 30-day mark, do better if you post more. Yeah, really. I never look at the back end of it. I just think when I've got some cool stuff Yeah you just throw it up You post a good amount though I mean you post We're both story guys We post a lot of stories a day Yeah But I saw that last video you posted When you were running up That fucking video popped off Like you know Dude at one point You were like the only guy That was posting like this Fucking running Running videos With the trotting And they were all going viral Like every fucking time Like oh yeah this is it Seven seconds Me running Shirt off And then it's just like Fucking pops up No music No nothing then I'm like he's got it down this is it this is his shit and it was going crazy yeah and then it changed it's all right bro yeah they just they don't they put you and put you in instagram jail yeah yeah I mean that's it I mean well nowadays it's like back in the day I feel like I was just I was talking to my girl about this I was saying like if someone was doing something no one was like now everyone just copycats everything and just tries to like make it blow up I feel like back in the day like 12 years ago it's like there was only one of everything it was like somebody was good at this something's good no one was seeing someone like you i'll see you do something that's it fuck i'm gonna run that reel the next day it wasn't like damn i gotta do something different he got to it ahead and then it doesn't matter who did it everyone just copies each other and someone some go viral some don't it's just like everyone just copying each other now that thing's like really original yeah kind of got there is a there is a lot of pressure though like for myself it's more from like a brand aspect um and like you say your audience your audience correct yeah but you're also a role model and that's why i think the seriousness comes across because i'm scared if i say a joke or i'm gonna get cancelled or you're gonna yeah people aren't gonna welcome aboard my friend yeah but yeah that is your brand your brand is your brand yeah stick to what you're good at and what you know and then also use different channels to broadcast different ways.

1:35:53George Heaton: Your YouTube can be a lot more personal than what Instagram can be. You gotta have that fuck off thing. If someone even tries, fuck off. Because if you feed into any of that shit, those guys are ruthless. Cancel culture people. Have you seen what comments he gets on his YouTube when he puts a marathon goal up or whatever? It is crazy. They talk shit? Yes. That's good. Shit talking is good, dude. You want both. it gets to me I'm fucking on the edge of my bed like getting angry on your videos you used to get it before me to be fair and you put something out you actually said you addressed it I think the most successful people in life are half loved and half hated it's just like you gotta be hated and the better you start doing the more haters are gonna come around he started tagging me the other day about some guy that keeps commenting on his post saying that it was my boyfriend or something Did you see it in his close friends?

1:36:53George Heaton: What did the guy say? He keeps tagging some like fake rich guy in your fucking comments and you're like yo I think Eli Weeby's boyfriend Eli Weeby's sending this fucking bot to my fucking account because they keep like tagging and spamming him. It was funny though but yeah I think you're doing good bro. I think you got your brand on point. Like I started doing some funny stuff now with one of my boys my boy Andy. He's really good with content and like it's not really my fucking speed like i'll have like all these hardcore posts like me and goggins me and my tattoos working on the gym and then it's like me running with somebody with fucking pink hair and some pink handcuffs or some shit like you know but but like it's funny and it does well but it's mixed up but like it's good and that's what the me and him when we do content together it always does good because people like to see us together so it doesn't matter what we do but that's my opportunity to do funny stuff it's with him but i also always fucking post memes talking shit and like it's kind of my brand but he talks shit about you sometimes yeah i see his oh yeah wait what were you saying earlier about sending stuff he'll put that guy that posts a roundup of every month he's not gonna be your man oh yeah i'll say something like yo it says the last 30 days i said yo that man posting a photo dump saying goodbye to october will not provide for you you did pull out you did 20 pic dump when i'm providing and then recently i posted a that man posting his 2016 highlights will not provide for you.

1:38:12Why is that a trend at the moment? It is a trend, isn't it? It was like a meme one time and then like I start every month I do it now at the end of the month so like when fucking December when January 29th or 30th hits wherever the fuck it is the end of the month I'll put that man posting a 20 pic photo dump saying goodbye to January will not provide for you and then he'll send it over to you, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah because I'll do it. So I'm like what should I post today? It's just so good. And then I'll post a dump and I'll post a dump with like 19 and someone will post it underneath there and I'll say yep you ain't getting Don't even ask me.

1:38:40I'm definitely that guy. I love it. I love it. I love it. Shall we round it up? That's it, huh? Unless there's anything else you want to talk about. I'm good. I want to eat some food. How long have we been on tape for? 20 hours. Oh, yeah. We're good. We've got to cut this shit up to 20 minutes. Yeah, let's do it. I'm just kidding. Fast talking. Yeah, that was good, guys. Thank you. Appreciate it. Later.