First Woman Sub-60 in HYROX: Training & Injury Comeback | Meg Jacoby | Ep 53

0:00Megan Jacoby, welcome to the podcast. Ah, thank you. I've been waiting for this invitation because I've been following the podcast and I thought, oh, I hope I get invited. Well, here you are. It's an honor. It's been an overdue request. Oh, well, thanks. A lot of people have wanted you on this podcast, including myself. Obviously, we're on different sides of the planet most of the time, so it's hard. But we're here at World Champs in Stockholm. So you're competing tomorrow. Yeah. How are you feeling for it? I'm really excited because it just feels like a huge win just to get to line up and just make it here.

0:40It's been a tough road. So, yeah, just like feeling healthy, feeling strong enough to race, I think, is just like an overwhelmingly positive feeling for me. So it's been a lot of diligent patience, I would say, to get to this point. So, yeah, we'll get into that in a minute. For the people that may not know who you are, would you just be able to summarize yourself? So I am Meg Jacoby. I am a professional High Rocks athlete, the 2024 Elite Women's World Champion. First ever woman to break 60 minutes in High Rocks. I'm a mom. My partner, life partner, Benny is here with me. I live dually between the US and Cyprus.

1:28And I'm just like a really hardcore fitness lady. Yeah. And you are a hardcore fitness lady. I think for me, when I think about High Rocks, I think about you. Like you are the face. You're one of the first females to dominate the sport, I'd say. Thank you. um obviously last couple of years you've been suffering a couple of injuries and stuff like that but uh it's it's crazy to think like even even now like how big you are in the sport oh thank you and uh yeah i need that no genuinely like i've looked up to you for so long i remember watching um you at nice world championships um and it was incredible like it was it was so good to see how like you say just dominant you were in that race and then even following uh i think hamburg the first um elite 15 of the next season the major um i think it was hamburg was it amsterdam amsterdam sorry amsterdam yeah close close um but uh yeah it was great um but where did it all start did it start with high rocks your fitness journey no no no um so i've been a runner for what I would say is the vast majority of my life.

2:44I started competing in cross country and track and field when I was 12. Um, and I went distance. Well, back then we only had maximum of one mile or 1500 meters. So at the time it was short. Um, then in high school and college, I ran division one in college at UConn. I ran the steeplechase and the 3k and the 5k and cross country as well. And then in my 20s, I got into longer distance, focused a lot on the half marathon for a while. But I've also always been a gym lover and a strength athlete as well. So I feel like High Rocks kind of came around in a time where it was filling everything that I love to do.

3:32Um, and I just naturally with the background I had built over the years kind of had a really sound, you know, core to basically be able to come in right away and really succeed in it. So a little bit of the, it was a little lucky with the timing, um, because it was post COVID. My first race was 2023. I think that High Rocks was around obviously before COVID, but kind of had some dips. And then by the time I heard of it, it was kind of starting to really gain a lot of traction. So, um, yeah, just kind of found it in the right moment in the right part of my life where my fitness was very high as well.

4:14Yeah. I remember like that era of, like you say, early 2023 is when it blew up, especially in Europe. Yes. Uh, and then obviously later down the line America. Yeah. Um, but, uh, yeah. So your first race was 2023. Yep. how did you do in that race so i won but i had a lap penalty by two minutes but my first race i qualified for the elite 15 your first race my first race and then my second race which was four weeks later was the first time i broke the women's pro world record so it was pretty immediate yeah so just to get this right your first race you got a two minute penalty and you still won Yes.

4:58And you qualified for the Elite 15? Yes. Although that's insane. That is literally crazy. And then you break the world record four weeks later? Yes. Wow. So what race was that where you broke the world record? It was in Chicago. Oh, I'm sorry. It was 2022 Chicago. Yeah. It was 22-23 season. And I almost didn't even go because at the time I was a full-time single parent. I was working two jobs. Like, you know, my life was tricky. My daughter was only eight. And so I even thought, I don't know, like I have to fly there and spend like a couple of days. But a friend of mine was like, listen, just do it.

5:40You know, I was on the leaderboard for the Elite 15, but I was still worried my time wouldn't keep me as far up as possible before the first major. there used to only be two majors um so i was like oh maybe i should take another chance and just get a little bit of a better time just like secure me and then i ended up breaking the world record so i think that thankfully secured me pretty well so and then back then the qualification system was it was it just off one time one time yeah which was a lot easier yeah that's so much easier than what But it's now racing five races that we're going to race for the next season.

6:19Yes, for sure. So fast forward, you obviously break the world record. Next up, is it the world champs right here for 2023? So I had two majors. Okay. Where were they? One was in Maastricht and one was in Chicago. And this was really when the Meg Jacoby-Lauren Weeks kind of rivalry, I guess, started. because that's when we first started to race each other. So these were the first experiences. And back then, Michaela Norman, I don't know if you know of her, she had broke the world record right after me. So this was kind of a really new height for the women's field because we started to see us getting closer to 60 minutes.

7:03So this was kind of a new wave, I think, of where it was like, wow, this 60-minute mark is coming, and it's coming soon, and we're very close. So coming in then and kind of helping set the bar, I think, was really special for me, but also for the whole women's field in general. And then later on in Anaheim, four weeks before my first world championship, I did finally break the 60-minute mark. And so that's a really cool thing because now this is the biggest goal of, like, the whole community. like the sub 60, it's on our Puma shoes, right? It's in writing, sub 60. This is kind of a really, really big milestone and a really high achievement.

7:54So yeah, it's been a cool journey to kind of be one of the first to ever do it. Yeah, and then your first world championships, Manchester? Manchester, yeah. First of all, what did you think of Manchester? It was fun. Bad weather? The weather was actually nice. Um, and, uh, it was a party town. That was for sure. Yeah. It was a lot of, a lot of clubbing going on in Manchester. Yeah. So that's obviously where we're from. Uh, yeah, it's a, it's a great little city. It's, it's nice. Obviously, uh, we just don't get the weather, but like I say, if you do get the weather, it's pretty good. It's pretty cool.

8:35Uh, but yeah, I remember I heard a lot of stories about, uh, I actually came to watch that race that you did and it was like incredible. but uh i remember hearing about the stories about kind of like the after parties and stuff uh apparently they got a bit loose with the high rocks after parties i don't know don't know you didn't go i don't recall speak the plead the fifth okay well i was fine yeah you was fine but apparently it used to be a lot more wild but then but um it most definitely was but again And at the time, this was still very much amateur. Yeah. Very much not at the level of professionalism we have today.

9:15No one was sponsored. You know, there was no money in it. It was kind of like everyone is doing this for a hobby a little bit and hoping maybe it could get somewhere. I mean, at least that was my goal. It was like, I don't know. These German guys are telling me it's going to become something huge. I have no idea if that's true or not. I'm going to ride it and see what happens. But, yeah, we were still all working people. So you go on a trip overseas to do a race, I think it was a little more natural to then want to enjoy it and have a little fun and let a little loose after. Now it's a much different, much different tale.

9:51I'm way more worried about my recovery and, you know, how my sleep is going to be. And we're all often racing multiple times. That was not the case back then. So it's a totally different world. in just four, three and a half, four years, I've been a part of it. Completely different sport. How have you found that? Like the change, maybe from a pressure point of view, from like say gaining sponsorships and things like that and people, especially you dominating so much in your career. Like, do you feel pressure? I think, you know, those famous words like pressure is a privilege. It's very much perceived.

10:33It's something I would say, though, you have to work on constantly mentally how you're going to handle that, because it's not just the pressure you put on yourself, but it's obviously it's a lot of coming from the outside and expectations of you from the community. So obviously I've competed and performed at a very high level, even coming off an injury. You know, everybody's like, go win it tomorrow, Meg. and it's mixed doubles and we're here to have fun and be a part of it. There is always that kind of expectation of excellence from external and obviously it's internal as well. That's the most important to me.

11:14But having the sponsors and the opportunities come in and the sport grow, it's changed my life because I was able to quit my job and become a full-time athlete when I was 32 years old. I mean, that's pretty crazy and definitely not what I would have. If you asked me what my life would look like 10 years ago, I probably wouldn't have been saying that, right? What would you have said? I just was like a woman who did fitness like a crazy maniac, but like still had a real career, you know, like outside of sports, like sports not being a career. I worked for an engineering company for four years before I was a full-time athlete.

11:55So I think originally I was thinking I'd be retiring there working for like the department of defense. And now here I am roaming the world, going to different countries and competing in fitness and inspiring others too. And I think that's been a really amazing thing that the sport growing has done for me in my life. Do you ever have to pinch yourself? 100 % all the time, all the time. It's a dream to do what you love to do for a living. It really is. It doesn't feel like work. You know, I'd be doing all of this anyway, I think. Maybe not traveling as much, but the training, which is the number one thing I love, I'd be doing this regardless.

12:37So I think to then be able to make a living from it, support my family from it, like I said, inspire others from it. I think that's been so rewarding in so many ways, like just the fulfillment of something you started when you're a young kid turning into something like this. That's certainly unexpected and not the norm. So I always have to remind myself like there's probably less than 0.01 % of people who get to do fitness like this for a career. um so yeah it's it's pretty special yeah and I love kind of like your mindset on it as well because I know we've had prior chats and what intrigues me is like your approach and and your mindset behind it is like this is our job yeah you've got to train you don't take feelings out of it it's you've got to train you've and you get to train yeah and it's this is a privilege and you're in a privileged position and you should want to look forward to everything and uh i kind of love that thank you it's it's really strong and it's really uh i just thought that's one thing i took away from like our prior conversations is you know you get some athletes and i can't wait until it's the off season i can't wait until i don't have to do this anymore and like you say you've got to pinch yourself because this is one of the best things that we could do like for sure Did you ever think that you would be doing this?

14:09No. No. No. And likewise. I didn't even believe them when they told me this. I remember my first time I broke a world record. I'm out to, you know, dinner and I'm with the founders and the whole team and everyone's like, this is going to be huge. And I'm like, I don't know, guys. Doesn't seem like it's that big, you know. But, of course, this was in America and it was 2023. And the New York City race, my first race, just to throw numbers out there. There were, I think, 900 people. The last two weekends in New York City, there were over 50 ,000 people, and it was a 10-day event. So, like, these guys are telling me it's going to be big.

14:47I'm in a small, little, tiny convention center in New Jersey with only 900 people throughout the whole day. Then now seeing the growth of just that same event is insane. But at the time, I was like, I don't know. Should I believe these guys? Like, what are they talking about, you know? I bet you're glad you did, no. Absolutely. You know, for some reason, I just, my boyfriend's German. I don't know. They just speak with such confidence. I was like, okay, you know, I guess we're going to give it a go. So I just kind of held on faith that maybe something could come from it. And I kind of felt like I can change my life, you know, and my daughter's life.

15:30And I think that was a huge part of my why for like really going all in and really giving myself an opportunity to see what I'm made of. And yeah, it's obviously paid off, thankfully. Touching on training, and we'll talk about obviously your kind of like career, but when you was back like competing and obviously you're back competing now as well. But what's like a traditional like week looking like? oh um and i know how it's how it's developed over the years as well because it's interesting i've been seeing like some of your recent stuff and like a lot of injury prevention a lot of rehab yeah have you always done that or no absolutely not so i wish i did yeah i wish i knew better back in you know 10 years ago that longevity was going to be more important i wish i had a little more forethought with that but um yeah the training the sport has moved in a completely different direction than when I first started.

16:28And I think when I started, I was one of the few people coming in with a running background. Most were coming from CrossFit at the time or CrossFit and this or a lot of strength and a little endurance. And now it's completely the opposite. So it's all endurance. Everybody that's really succeeding in the highest levels of the elite are primarily coming from some type of endurance background in a very good one. Not just like, you know, hobby jogger. Like, I mean, Alyssa, who just won, runs a 234 marathon and is qualified for the 2020 Olympic trials. Very high level. Sinead Bent, I know I'd posted a 16 low 5K recently.

17:15So it's no surprise to see them succeeding at the level they are at right now. and early in their careers because this is definitely the way the sport is moving. So my training is very endurance focused. I definitely came in the early days with probably more of a 50-50 split, strength and endurance, strength and running. We weren't cycling back then much. We weren't doing as much work on ergs back in those days. And now it's complete opposite. I would say 90 % of my training is aerobic endurance focused. So very little overall strength, just what I need. And I think that's where the whole sport is moving.

18:01We're figuring out that you only need a specific and a certain amount of strength. Not a crazy high level strength background is needed. I had that when I came in. And I would say probably I have still some of the highest strength numbers without training it so much. But you really need to build that aerobic capacity. And I know I talk about it all the time. I do so much low intensity, two to three threshold days, usually a morning run, and then an afternoon type of erg threshold workout to maximize but also stay healthy. and yeah that's kind of been the focus a ton of rehab work obviously not just because of what I've gone through recently but also just longevity in sport is going to become more and more important and I'm 35 so I have to you know take age a little and I'm not old but I'm not a spring chicken like you know Joanna's 22 there's a few of these girls that are in their early 20s barely out of university.

19:09Um, so, you know, you have to take care of yourself and look ahead too. So that's kind of what it looks like, I guess. Are you taking, for example, like the Norwegian training method and put, turning it into high rocks version? Yes. Is that what you're doing? So very much so hard days, easy days. Yes. Do you have specific days of the week that you have as like your, your double thresholds? Yes. Every Tuesday and Friday, Tuesday, Friday, and then something on Sunday. Yeah. And it's the same every week. That's the hardest part, I think, for most people who aren't used to endurance training and endurance backgrounds.

19:45It is extremely repetitive. Every week looks almost exactly the same. Okay. Very minimal adjustments. Could you talk us through one of your running sessions? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think with running, everybody has their kind of specialty. what type of running training they like or the duration or, or whatever. Um, I do a six by six minute, um, pretty much weekly. Um, and I love a longer, I love a long grind. I'm a long grind queen. So I love a three by 10, three by 12, three by 15. So that's kind of how I separate it. So one is a little bit more sub threshold. One is a little true threshold or a little over threshold.

20:30And then I do like an LT1 high end longer aerobic session on Sundays. Threshold is the name of the game, especially for solos. So I think that's where I invest the bulk of my intensity is threshold. And we test, we get lactate number, you know, we're doing all the science to know exactly what I need to do. This is also very important for the recovery. If you're always over training it, always above what your threshold is, your recovery also becomes much harder. So as someone who's gone through some injuries, this is something I really, really take very seriously because I need to get the volume in and also stay healthy.

21:14So monitoring the intensity and keeping the intensity controlled, I think is what most people don't get right in the equation. And that's something I'm very, very focused on. Interesting. Do you do most of your running outdoors or a mixture of treadmill? Right now, a mixture, especially with the knee, I'm using a device currently called lever movement and it's acts like an anti-gravity, like the bubble. The alter G. Yes, exactly. So this is helping me offload. So the days, I'll offload weight onto my knees so I can get more volume in running. So I alternate that with free running on the track.

21:56But typically in the past, free running and outsourced running on the track, that's the most important for me. I like to feel the pace. I like to understand what my body is doing, how it's responding to the environment. All of those things I think can be important to understand yourself. when it comes to race day, treadmills can be very helpful, but when it comes to race day, you have to be able to feel and understand what is going on. And I think that comes better from, you know, free running outside. Yeah, no, I agree. Um, are you doing, how many miles are you doing a week roughly? Right now it's, I'm not even, I don't know that I've really been counting.

22:39I go more, I don't count typically by miles. I go more by minutes. okay so you have a certain number of minutes at threshold exactly do you ever do like faster sessions or strides or anything where you always yes strides at least two days a week after an easy runs i think that's very important um i mean for me it's like funny to hear people talk about strides because i've just been running for so long that this is just like what you do i'm just like oh you know easy 60 minute zone to run and then we do you know five by 15 second strides at the end like it's just kind of like part of the equation but yeah working on a little bit higher turnover working your ATP system a little bit I think is also uh an important tool yeah I found just incorporating strides like it kind of opens up your body so much more than stretching yeah and it's like improve my mobility just by doing strides yeah I just feel so much more freer when running like even at an easy pace yeah it's down to strides but yeah uh no that's really interesting So do you have like a number of hours that you aim for per week when it comes to training or you're not really?

23:47Yeah. I mean, roughly we're probably 22. So high, very high. Yeah. I do a lot of cross training. I do a lot of cycling. So again, even though I do high hours, a lot of it is very low impact and that's intentional. I've incorporated cycling now for nearly two years. and I'm on the bike probably eight to 10 hours of those 22 hours. So it's a lot. And this has been a great way for me going through some injuries to maintain a lot of that aerobic fitness. And when you get used to cycling, which takes some time, different muscles, different body adaptions. Like when I first started, it was hard to hit high watts for a long time.

24:38Like my muscles would just kind of gas out. But now we're at a point where I've been doing it so often that I can actually really benefit a lot from it because my output is significantly higher. So I can really get, I can get into zone two much more easily, um, and really hit the correct heart rate stimulus. So I really, I really emphasize how important the bike has been for me. yeah no i again with the bike it's so great just to be able to add it in um when sometimes you like you say you you either add up the miles or you you're doing so much but like the bike is just just a little hack to like add more exactly yeah and sometimes you feel fresher coming off definitely like it kind of like is a great recovery method absolutely with recovery like what do you focus on sleep is the number one thing um so i'm i'm tracking always every night my sleep my sleep metrics again when you start going through some injuries and you're kind of assessing yourself you you have to kind of look really deep especially at this level at what contributing factors there might be to why you're going through these things is it volume probably a little bit yes.

25:55Is it past training volume? For me, I think that's a big part of it. So going deeper into how can I overcome these things using recovery metrics like sleep, like your nutrition, I think those things matter a lot. And I think that early in my career, we weren't even focusing on those things. So now being able to use them as tools, not always Bible, right? But tools to maybe say, hmm, I've had some pretty bad sleep for a few days. Maybe I shouldn't do that. Maybe I should move this hard effort day and not overstress the body. I think that has become very important for me, for me especially. I'm taking more full rest days, you know, regularly.

26:41They're scheduled in. How often? Seven to 10 days, a full day, not an active recovery day. I take an active recovery day every week, but a full day off, no training at all. This is something that our community struggles with mentally. But when you treat it like it's a part of the training plan, it changes how you think of it. So a lot of people feel like they didn't accomplish anything or, oh, I was lazy today. But for me, it's like that is intentional. So being intentional about sleep. how many hours I'm getting, looking at the metrics, was it good sleep, was it good quality? Is my body ready to then handle the next session, taking the full rest days without feeling like I have to?

27:32I think people wait too long, right? Now I have no choice. I have to take a rest day. I feel so bad and beat up. I'm planning those in so that then I'm optimizing the days that I do go hard. And I think that that has been a very different, that's a very different Meg than the Meg who started High Rocks. So growth, which is great. But if you want longevity, you have to do that. You have to be open and adapting, and especially with the level that the sport is growing to. Do you do like saunas or ice baths or any of that stuff? We are building a sauna in our new house. So I can't wait. That will be a daily ritual for us.

28:11At the moment, none of that. But very soon we will have a regular sauna day. It will be my date with Benny every day. 20 minutes in the sauna. Yeah, a little date night every night. That'd be cool. It's hard with two busy people, so. No, of course. You was one of the people that actually intrigued me about heat training because I think before Nice World Championships, you spent a lot of time over in Cyprus. Yes. And I remember talking to you and you was like, training in the heat, training in the midday, suffering. Yeah. That helped then your performance in Nice because it was so warm in there.

28:52Like we all remember back to 2024 world champs. And I think a little bit more with the age groupers, but there was people like passing out because it was so hot. I mean, even some of the, I remember Camilla Massa was struggling to even see the target, you know, at the end. And so many of the women crossed the line and were immediately talking about that. And the funny thing was I had not that was not even in my mind. I didn't even notice it, if I'm being really honest. And a lot of that came from training in very high heat for four or five weeks. I raced in Doha four weeks before that world championship.

29:34Also incredibly hot. But and yeah, just training your body to be able to cool itself in those environments, I think, was obviously massively and massively humble for me that day. Definitely gave me a leg up. I think it just I just was not impacted the way that, you know, everybody else was. So I think it's important. and we're seeing people in sauna suits now on the bike and using cooling vests and you know we're really seeing more people in hyrax dive into kind of the science behind a lot of that stuff so yeah it's hot in cyprus right now so um this will feel amazing tomorrow in this cool sweden venue for me but yeah i think it was a big big game changer yeah and obviously like more research has come out about heat training not only like you say you can adapt to being able to perform in hot conditions but the red blood cell production and everything else that comes along with uh yeah just training the heat and being in the heat yeah absolutely yeah heat's great um uh and like i say you you again was one of the people that uh inspired me to like say start wearing a sweatsuit and start doing them cycling sessions well if you want to come to cyprus you are welcome anytime so you can also just join us you don't need a sauna suit there you're just you're just baked no no of course which uh it saves on the washing about yes yeah yeah um going so moving on obviously uh 2024 nice world champs and then you competed in Amsterdam yeah did you get injured after that Yeah.

31:21One week after one week. What happened? I was starting to change a little bit of some training. Um, we did a few baseline tests to kind of plan the next block. Um, so I did a 10 K time trial on a track alone. I did a five K ski time trial, um, a five K road time trial, time trial, burpee time trial. You know, I basically in one weekend, this is a little over a week after Amsterdam, kind of hit a bunch of baseline tests and woke up one morning shortly after and just knew something was wrong. And I had radiating pain down my leg, went to the gym thinking, okay, I'll just mobilize myself a little bit, do a little mobility.

32:10Did not go away. I tried to run, you know, a day or so after that, and I could not run a single step. So I knew this was bad. This was my second herniated disc. My first, this is, my back is a long time. This is not high rocks related at all. My daughter is 11 now, but when I was pregnant with her, when I was 23, I slipped a disc very, very badly during my pregnancy. struggled with it for two to three years after, um, had a surgery two years after. So I was 25 when I had my first back surgery. So it's been a lot of ups and downs with that. As you know, I know you've experienced that as well. When you're back, it can be great.

32:56Then it can be horrible. Um, so I went basically six, seven years of it being really good. And then one day it was just like we've had enough and it was basically one disc higher on the other side. Um, so I had a left side, then I had a right side. Um, so it was so bad that there was no therapy that could really help me. Um, so we kind of had no choice. I was going to physical therapy. I'm doing all the stuff. I'm doing all the rehab. I'm, you know, doing the spinal decompression machine. and I would leave therapy in more pain than when I came in. So that got to a point where also with a career of sports kind of also on your mind, what am I going to do?

33:51I'm the current world champion. There was a lot of pressure to try to figure out something quick. so um we ended up having a surgery which was really hard um but i can say that a little over a year later my back has been actually really amazing so i'm i definitely don't regret doing it but the the pressure of that at the time felt really overwhelming because i had the absolute highest moment of my higher X career, what I bet everything on, what I bet, you know, quitting my job, I'm going to be a champion, I'm going to do it, I'm going to, you know, become a full-time athlete doing that. And then literally only four months later, having the lowest low, that was such an emotional roller coaster and so mentally tough.

34:49Now I'm worried about finances all of a sudden. Now I'm worried about partnerships. I just quit my left. You know, I took such a huge chance. What is going to happen now? Thankfully, my partner, Benny, has been my absolute ride or die because I would not have gotten through that, I think, without him. But yeah, it was a tough time. And I'm sure you've had those kind of moments in that mental stress of, you know the ebbs and flows that come with injuries as well yeah what what keeps you going like in them times like because you know yourself like rest with a bad back especially like rest doesn't cut it sometimes obviously you need rest but you need to do the rehab yeah you need to be getting up every day you need to be moving you need to be like so consistent and sometimes you can be doing rehab for one two hours a day yeah it's like a full training session yeah what when you're going through them lows like what keeps you motivated i think for me it's my daughter and just showing her that like you can just get through hard things and when you voluntarily put yourself in hard things where you're going to be pushed not just physically but mentally emotionally on every level to grow and change and you're choosing that i think in life it makes when it's involuntary it makes it easier to get through those things because life happens and it lives and there's no avoiding it.

36:18You know, you're going to lose people that you love. Things are going to, bad things are going to happen, you know, all of that kind of ups and downs. And so showing her, you are resilient, you are strong, you can get through anything. If you are willing to work hard enough, if you don't quit, um, that's a huge part of, I think, what I wish to represent as a mother, but as an athlete too. Um, And so that's really kind of the driving force for me. And also the second part is I want to prove to myself. You know, I think for me, early on, I would say that there was some external pressure and also validation that I sought from the sport.

36:58And I think a lot of athletes maybe won't admit that. You know, there was things in my life that were missing that I needed this sport to feel whole from. than going through injuries. I had to completely reevaluate myself because I'm not getting that validation from external factors now, right? I'm sidelined. So how am I going to overcome this as a person? So I did a lot of that kind of deep internal work. And I think for me, the biggest thing is like, I just want to prove to myself that I can overcome anything and that I can better my best and I can still be 1 % better and all of those things, that's a huge motivator for me right now.

37:40And now going through a second injury, I think that's, I just want to see what I'm capable of, you know, and just keep pushing myself to achieve what I, you know, the highest I could possibly be. Do you ever feel like sometimes you've got it in your mind, you're so highly motivated, you want to push you want to train hard but your body's just not keeping up and it's kind of giving up on you almost yeah there was definitely times where i was like the heart is there you know the passion like i think i'm probably one of the most passionate about what i do and then it's like my body is failing me you know it just feels like come on like can i catch a break and you feel like you're the only one going through it and i remember saying that to benny like why me why why is this only happening to me?

38:33I just said this probably not very long ago. And he was like, Meg. And then he names like 17 people. All pros. Way bigger, better athlete. Jakob Ingebrigtsen. Chris Bumfeldt. Like all these amazing endurance athletes. I'm watching the Rafael Nadal, you know, documentary. And every athlete goes through these things. Every single one on every level. um injuries are a part of sport so i think when you can just rationalize that and not let the emotional side overtake you you can accept it okay this is just part of the game i just got to get smarter i gotta learn what i need i gotta adapt i gotta change and so when you can kind of focus on that instead of the dwelling on the negative part that's what helps me you know keep going.

39:23But I would say these last six months have been the most difficult motivational wise for me. Interesting. Yeah. Just going through a second injury, you know, having. And this injury was. My knee. So I have a third degree meniscus tear still. Didn't have surgery. Just rehabbed it for the last six months. Going through the back injury, I came back in early 2024. I ran two of my best races of my entire career. Then I get hit with another injury. So the amount of time I've spent training and kind of fighting for this career versus the opportunities I've had to showcase my fitness and compete drastically different.

40:10So to then be unsure again, am I going to get over this? I'm going to make it out of this. I already had this long one year whole battle with my back. Now it's my knee. You know, that really leaves you very uncertain. And I think with uncertainty for me comes that kind of struggle with motivation. Like maybe I'll never get to race again. Um, so this last six months was extremely reliant on this is just my daily habit. Training is my daily habit. Consistency is my middle name. I just show up and I just get it done and I just do it. It was most of the time, not amazing, not spectacular. Very just checking it off the list, checking a box, got it done, hit the paces.

41:00That's it. No excitement. But then when you, again, step back and when you really think about it, that's just what training is most of the time anyway. So you have to rely on habitual routines, consistency, discipline, because it's easy to be motivated when things are going great. It's really hard to be motivated when it's not. And especially when it's not consistently for a long time. when you're on a downtrend very hard to to stay excited and hungry yeah no that's uh that's it's so good that you like you say you take all the emotions out of it all your personal feelings set that aside and then just focus on the tasks at hand get them done are you self-coached at the moment um i am not you're not no who coaches you benny has coached me for the last uh one and a half years.

42:00We decided that after my back injury, and I know you've experienced this, going through a surgery especially, it's very difficult to find coaches who can really understand physically what you're going through. We also know who I am as an athlete. If you put it on my sheet, I'm going to do it. 100%. There's no winging around. There's no, if you don't feel great. Don't do it. I know myself. If I see it, I want to do it. And if I don't do it, I feel like I didn't do my job. So we knew based on my personality, probably we need to take this on ourselves. So it was a lot of Benny, most knowledgeable sports science person that I've ever known.

42:50This comes from all of the research he's done with ESN, of course, and just years and years and years in sports. We really took it on together as a team. And that was hard as a couple. Sometimes we had to separate coach from boyfriend, but I don't trust anyone else more than him. So it felt like this was what we needed to do to help me kind of overcome this and not having a person in, you know, a coach in person, which is not the reality of our lives, right? We all live in different countries and whatnot. Most coaching is online. Not having someone seeing me physically all the time while going through an injury like this could have been very detrimental to my longevity.

43:38So we knew this was the right move for us for, you know, the last one and a half years. and he helped me get to my best level ever. So speaks for itself, I think. Yeah, I think the gold standard of any coaching is in person. If you can get it, in-person coaching. Obviously, like you said, that's not the reality, especially for most people, to have someone as great as, like you say, Benny. I've got my coach, Jonathan Buller, who luckily lives 20 minutes away, and he can come and he can check how I'm feeling before a session. He can see my movement patterns. He knows if something's up. If I'm, say, my hips are shifting in a squat or whatever, he kind of, like, stops me before something bad happens.

44:25Yeah. And sometimes it's very, like you say, hard to do that yourself. And especially if you're online, they're not seeing how you're moving every day. Exactly. They're not seeing how you're feeling. Like, if you're so, like you say, I'm going to use the word stubborn, but like in in the way where like you'll do what's ever in front of you yeah and like you say you might feel like a failure if you've not done that but sometimes that's not the right decision right and uh yeah I was just interested when I asked about being self-coached because uh I think a lot of people think especially within the high rocks space more is always better yeah and I think sometimes that can result in the injuries and that can be the problem I know um myself with injuries like uh it's probably due to overtraining most of the time and if you look at the research it is only about two percent not related to overtraining most of the time yeah so it's it's very very highly related to overtraining or or the wrong training too much intensity i this was maybe my issue in the past um and again a little bit of that stubbornness like you said i've grown a lot since then now i make better conscious decisions on my own but i needed that guidance from him to say hey listen if you don't mentally feel this session you're at such a level you sometimes need to not do it yeah like that's actually going to move the needle more for for me at the level I'm at than forcing that extra training session.

46:08And that's what I've really learned to understand in the last year and a half, two years of my career and learning more and getting, you know, more internal with myself. There are days where I have to make the right choice for me, not just physically, but for my mind, because the mental burnout is now the habits have been built. The consistency has been built. The level of volume that I can handle has been built. The mental side is always the struggle because that changes all the time. So you have to take the days when you're like, listen, there are days we should always go just do it. And that's important, too.

46:49But there are days where you got to just not because you need it to stay mentally excited. And I think this is a part that probably a lot of elite athletes should listen. listen to what I'm saying. You need that. You need that. And we all tend to push more and need more and want to do more. And that tends to be the trend. But sometimes backing off a little once in a while is just as valuable. Yeah, no, 100%. I'll just go in easier instead. Like you say, three hard days a week. Like that's great. And that's the gold standard. But two hard days a week, you're still going to make progress one hard day a week you're still going to make progress exactly and it's it's one of these things that i know a great marathon runner uh mitch ammons from texas 214 marathon does one hard running session per week yeah or every 10 days i think something like that and uh all the rest is just easy miles and that's incredible yeah the the fact that you can get to that level um just by just means it just shows to me that like sometimes like if i've not done three hard days a week i feel like a failure yeah but it's definitely not the case and um yeah it's sometimes let your body rest which is it's good how do you uh how do you structure balance obviously you're a very busy person obviously you're a mother you're an athlete um girlfriend like how do you how do you manage it all girlfriend to a very busy businessman entrepreneur guys that's not for the week, let me just say.

48:27There is no such thing as balance. I'm flying at the seat of my pants every day. And I think if you want to be, we try to control as much of the variables as possible. What I've learned being a parent in how to adapt, I think has made me a way better athlete because I've learned how to do what I need to do and get done what I need to get done under stressful situations, which in my opinion has made me a very strong competitor because when the stakes are high and there's a lot of stress and there's a lot of pressure, I just handle that. It's just, I'm used to it. I'm used to, I got to pick her up, got to drop her off.

49:06I have one hour to train. Then I got to do this and I got to do that. Then, you know, like having a lot of obligations where not everything is perfectly smooth, that it's not optimal all the time. I think that sets me up well in situations where you're going to face difficulty. But in a general, you know, I have a general kind of schedule I try to follow and abide by. And now we're in a position where we are able to thankfully outsource more. I can have a physio come to my house, things like that, that make the time management much, much easier and much better. and I'm very blessed that I have that opportunity because it was not like that at the beginning.

49:50I was like 4 a.m. in the basement on a crazy old rower, my daughter sleeping, then getting her ready for school, then going to work, then coaching on my, you know, writing a few programs on my lunch break, then picking her up. Like it was absolute madness early on. But yeah, I think when you try to make everything super perfect, you will never be satisfied because that's just not how it's going to be. Yeah, no, I completely agree. And then like them early times, they make you so grateful for now. When things are a little bit easier potentially and you have, you know, you can make things more convenient.

50:30Like you say, getting someone to come to your house to do manual therapy or whatever. Like it's so much more convenient, but like you're so much great. You're grateful for that as well? 100%. Yeah, no. And let's say it makes you a better athlete under stress. Definitely. Yeah. No, I agree. So looking forward. Looking forward. Obviously we're racing tomorrow. What's the goal tomorrow? Racing tomorrow. I love my community. Y 'all really want, the texts I'm getting are like, we want to see you win. You know, it's really, really sweet. But we are here to enjoy the weekend, be in the community. of course, push ourselves.

51:12It's, you know, a great race and we're in the 30 to 35 category. So it's like the most competitive, of course, mixed doubles age group. But for me, it's like, I just want to get to the end, healthy, strong, feeling fit. Um, I busted my butt rehabbing. And so it's really a celebration for me that like, I even feel capable to get back out there. Cause not that long ago, I was very unsure if I was going to be able to line up here. So it feels like a big win just to do that. So we're just, you know, if we can be close to our PB or break it, that would be amazing. But it's really just building confidence too.

51:53I think that's one thing. Overcoming injuries is not just the physical side. It's also the mental side. And I still am injured, right? So I'm going to have to go into the next phase of my career. Even if I am still chasing elite level, I am still dealing with an injury because I didn't have a surgery. It's just rehabbing and trying to stay healthy. So racing tomorrow for me is also kind of showing myself the subconscious, like, hey, you're strong. You can do this. You're fine. Your knee is good. And, you know, it's a lot of the subconscious work for me. And building that confidence. Yes. What do you see the next kind of 12 months looking like for you?

52:37Guys, listen, you know me. If you know me, you know me. We're going for it, of course. For me, just participating is not enough. And I think this comes not because I can't lower my expectations or just be humble, but it's also like I know what I'm capable of I've reached the highest level before so I would love to get back and be in the mix in in the elite 15 that's obviously the goal and will always be my goal um and does it mean I want to win and have to win and no of course not the level is incredible right now and so I just want to like show I'm in there and and hey I'm still here and I can do this and, you know, for myself and just see what else I can do.

53:26So the goal is to, you know, see what we can, see if we can get back on the leaderboard. No, that's, are you putting kind of like timestamps on it or anything like that? Or are you just like, no pressure, like it'll happen when it happens? Because you're definitely going to be back in that Elite 15. It's just a matter of kind of like when in my opinion. Yeah, for sure. I think this is going to be the challenging part for me is knowing how to space it out. Giving myself enough recovery time between races is going to be very key to me staying healthy. So we have a few things planned upcoming. Because if you've been around High Rocks or if you're learning about it, the season never really ends anymore.

54:13It just kind of keeps going. so there are some opportunities late summer that i'm gonna try to be prepped for and and see you know put my feelers out see where i'm at and um you know my goal is to be maybe ready by the first or the second major in london yeah in london because the first one's on a cruise ship it's on a cruise ship yeah i don't like boats so so you're missing i like boats i don't like cruise boats let me just be clear so like a a yacht is okay a yacht is a okay a yacht with me and a very select few of people is very good just just not a bigger boat with no listen i love you guys i love this hyrax community but i don't know if i could be trapped with you on a ship i don't know if i can do it just kidding i'm not trying to get sick either you know no that's that's true it's going to be an interesting concept i don't know what they've um i think they've got to announce it or like send it off for like approval in the next couple of weeks i think that's what matt lock was saying um but uh it's going to be interesting i think they're they're trying to figure out if it's going to be like a time trial thing or if they might just have to dock up and we do it at a venue somewhere interesting so i'm not too sure because i think they're struggling with health and safety i think probably wise based on some of the recent uh events of illnesses going around on ships i think that might be yeah yeah might be questionable for the athletes but you know yeah hyrox is always doing something big so there you go what's uh what hobbies do you have outside of being an athlete?

55:55I'm so boring. No, I love to shop. I mean, I'm a girly girl. I like to get my hair and my nails done. Honestly, though, I'm half kidding there, but honestly, I just spend time with my family, just my daughter. Every minute I'm not training when I'm with her is about her and prioritizing her. And then, of course, just spending time with Benny. we're very fortunate we live on an island so we love to be at the beach and be outside um we have some mountains right behind us we've run through some trails things like that but basically fitness is kind of the number one hobby so we're kind of boring outside of that yeah you do you think you've got to be obsessed to be at the top 100 you have to be you have to live and breathe it you really do um i think anybody who disagrees or says otherwise is maybe not being super truthful with themselves or maybe they just haven't realized that truth yet but i feel like you it's if you're not and you're investing this much time in it that's a question mark for me because it's so time consuming and it takes so much sacrifice in other areas like i said life is very unbalanced.

57:13I don't do a lot of social things. I have some really close friends that I've had that are in the corner and they always are. They understand who I am and what I'm doing. But we don't, you know, I'm not investing so much time outside because every ounce of energy you do is taking energy away from something else. And so when you have really big goals, you learn you need as much energy for that to make it happen as possible. So for me, it's, is this benefiting my career and my life, you know, in my way I can support my family, or is this about my family? And if it's not in one of those two boxes, it tends to be a no.

57:56So that is the kind of sacrifice that you're willing to make? For now, yeah. And I think that's why a lot of athlete lives are kind of shorter lived in general, especially at a really elite level because it takes so much and you really have to love it. You have to love what you do so much. And that's where I think that obsession comes in is when you really love something, you are obsessed. That's the way it kind of works. If you don't really love it, you won't make it long because I mean, look at what I'm going through. Two years of ups and downs and barely racing. I've really only competed in the last two years, three individual solo races.

58:39That's not very many, but I still get up and believe and grind in because I live and love what I do. So I think that's a huge, it's an advantage for me because I do have that passion for it that I can keep fighting. Um, but it takes a lot, you know, it takes a lot of mental grit, It takes a lot of resilience. So yeah, you really, when it's, again, it's easy to love something when it's going great, but it's way harder to love it when it's not and when all the chips are against you. So that's where you really find out how much passion you have for it. Yeah. It can definitely tell that you've got that passion and you've got that grit.

59:22And it's just going to show like when things do start going your way again. Thanks. Because obviously they will. and uh if you've gone through all these tough times now like it's just going to make you stronger and stronger um i want to finish with a couple of quickfire questions first one if you could only run or lift for the rest of your life which one you're picking shit because i would probably pick running instinctually but i don't want to look like a runner i love how i look now you know i still have muscles you know no offense to the runners love y 'all i've been in your community for a very long time don't hate me for that but i love my body type and like i love how my physique doing both so that's really hard but i would pick running yeah yeah there's something just to buy like it's in my dna at this point yeah yeah no um favorite pre-workout meal before this is a secret before i raised niece in one i had two donuts two donuts yeah where from i think they were just from starbucks honestly we were struggling with food in nice a little bit and uh like just finding convenient food items was not super easy donuts or like uh no they were just covered in chocolate chocolate chocolate donuts it was amazing and i won so i'm just saying maybe it's a secret by quite a bit i remember just uh just a few minutes yeah it was like two minutes two three minutes through almost four almost four minutes i had 96 ball ball's done when second place came in wow that's yeah i will say i am proud of that because that was a dominate that was yeah but again the field that has changed it's way tighter everybody's much you know so it's it's a different thing now but it was nice to like really dominate it i have to say i had a great it was very enjoyable for me maybe not for everyone else but i was having a great time.

1:01:25Do you have any bad habits? Uh, Benny could probably tell you 80 million things that I, that I do. Um, yep. I don't drink enough water unless I'm like, I'm a coffee. I'm the classic girl where I'm like, I have a headache. And it's like, I had four lattes and like one water. So I'm really, I have to be very mindful of my hydration. This is not good for me. My other bad habit is I love sweets this is my kryptonite like dessert I'm a dessert chocolate queen so I have to really is chocolate your choice oh yeah if it doesn't have chocolate it's not dessert what's uh what brand are we going with it doesn't even matter I mean I love a chocolate peanut but I love a Reese's I love a chocolate peanut butter combo I love anything kinder I'm intrigued I love Nutella yeah because like obviously you're from America so like over in the UK and Europe like we're like huge like Cadbury's fans okay but like do you like Cadbury's chocolate I mean no is it okay it's not really a thing yeah sorry really think yeah sorry guys send me some just kidding don't know I think just kidding don't don't don't feed into my addiction it's like Hershey's over yes it's like Hershey's and in the U.S.

1:02:41yeah in the U.S. yeah but Cyprus where uh what are you eating over there because they don't really have Hershey's do they no but But I mean, they have Kinder everything. Kinder. Kinder's everywhere. So Kinder's your choice. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah, but I switched. I try to just eat the ESN designer bars because they're like kind of close, right? It's almost a candy bar. There we go. There we go. A little sneaky trick. No, no. And then last one. What would you tell your 16-year-old self? don't ever confine yourself to the limits that other people place on you when I was told you're just a mom don't forget I hated how this made me feel because I'm so much more than just that and so I think when you don't allow the constraints of anyone else how they, because it's always a reflection of them on you, right?

1:03:40When you don't allow that, you will live a fulfilled life and you will be super happy because you will reach your full potential. So I really think that there's nothing you can't do if you are willing to work hard enough for it. I firmly believe that. I agree. Thank you, Meg. Yeah. That was great. Awesome.