From Elite Judo to Coaching World-Class Athletes | Bobby Rich | Ep 72

0:00Bobby Rich, welcome to the podcast. Good morning, thank you for having me. How has your morning been so far? Morning's good. Morning is, there's no routine at the minute. I mean, from the minute I wake up with two kids to a one year old and a three and a half year old. So the routine is non-existent in the minute in the household. But yeah, pleasure to be here, mate. Yeah, no, thank you. Thank you for making the time. For the people who may not know who you are, you just be able to introduce yourself. Yeah. I'm Bobby Rich. I'm a I'm a dad, a father of two and fitness coach by trade, former GB athlete, judo player, almost made it to the Olympics.

0:45Not quite. And yeah, that's me in a me in a nutshell. that's incredible when um when you say judo athlete I feel like you just like lost over that then but you've been judo has been a huge part of your life right huge yeah when did it even start um started with mum actually I mean I was I was six five or six when I got introduced to the sport there was no no history of anyone doing it in our family I think it was a combination of two things I think it was now having kids I think parents look for anywhere and everywhere for keep their kids busy chuck them in a you know in an activity after school so there might have been a bit of that but I also grew up in East London in Hackney which was uh I have great memories but it probably wasn't the most savoury and safest area so there might have been a you know let's get him into a combat sport so he can look after himself when he's bigger but yeah that was five or six years old when my mum introduced me to sport and uh bless her love her for it because it's uh it's the biggest part of my life and shapes who I am today when you first stepped on to that judo mat did you feel anything like what made you get obsessed I think when I first stepped on I mean it was just it's just a bit of fun right when I was five or six years old mum used to say that I was quite like it's a bit roughhousing you know I used to have play dates, used to come over.

2:15I was like massive into WWF, WWE now at the time. So I used to get friends, come over for play dates, used to take the sofas off the pillow, put them down, jump off the corner of the sofa like you're off the top rope. So apparently I was quite physical. So there's probably the element of like trying to expend a little bit of energy as well. Who was your favourite character? It was Hulk Hogan. Hulk Hogan. Hulk Hogan all day long. The American dream. Yeah. And so, yeah, I was quite physical. um it's probably to get a bit of energy out but um yeah I just enjoyed it from from what I can remember and from what mum tells me and I was so young but just enjoyed it from day one but and it started as just like a a weekly activity once a week you know but within a month or so it was evident that I was I wouldn't say good at it but you know coaches you know you're a coach it's quickly to see how someone takes to a certain sport or a discipline so I think the coach had said to my mum like you know he can come to another class and quickly I think within a few months I was like doing two or three sessions you know even at even at six years old that was that was a thing and yeah it's the biggest part of my life and I absolutely loved it I you know I it It started getting serious when I was, I don't know, I want to say 14, 15.

3:37I won my first national title when I was 15. So then that kind of gave, you know, the confidence and sort of, you know, having something tangible in your hand that was like national gold medalist. It made you realize that it was a validation that you were good at something. And I think it was around that 14, 15. I was like, okay, I want to pursue this. And then it started getting really serious. You know, my poor mum probably, you know, questioned her choice to get me in because she kept me around like the UK. Like every week I was in some like shitty, you know, sports hall or leisure centre or somewhere around the country in Sheffield or Manchester or London or something like that.

4:19So, but yeah, it was around about 15 that it started getting serious. And when you say serious, what changed within your life? Like, did you think you had to make sacrifices? Yeah, I mean, it was noticeable because that's like, even at that age, you know, obviously I couldn't drive. Mum was still driving me here, there and everywhere. So I was kind of limited to how much I could do, but I just wanted to, that's all I could think about. That's all I wanted to do. I mean, from a young age, I was always just super obsessed and just intrigued on what the body could do if you put your mind to it and how far you could push it.

4:59I think hence why I ended up, you know, going into coaching. And how would you learn? Would it just be like in the gym or would you be kind of like studying old videos or whatever? Yeah, I mean, literally old videos, like VHS at a time, right? We're talking like this is like when I started, it was like 1986. 86 there was no such thing even to like towards the end of my career I think there was still my space at the time there was no Instagram so like it was literally you know if you're studying it was ordering videos from you know I don't know from the shops and waiting them to to get to your house and stuff like that so it was hard to get the access but it was it was literally studying but it was most of it was I was fortunate I had some amazing coaches you know even even as like even as a kid had some incredible coaches which as you know like makes the makes the difference I can have all the drive in the world and want to turn up but if you've got someone that's not invested and the coaches I had weren't just invested of when you were like on the mat doing what you're doing it was equally you know how you I don't say conducted or behaved but just like you know what you did off the mat and how that would benefit your attitude towards a sport so yeah it was it was a mixture between the two it was you know but it was there was a lot of work and sweat and injuries and done on the mat but there was equally as much work off the mat as well yeah do you feel like that's where you gain your advantage over your opponents um yeah i mean i was never you was just like naturally good no it was far far from naturally good i had to work like fucking super hard at what I had.

6:38I was like, I was given sort of stubbornness and drive and I just love the sport, but like I was never like naturally talented. And I think that was always like a little niggle that I had in my mind. I used to turn up to events like super nervous, you know, super, super nervous where I ended up having some coaching around like mindset and how I can approach any tournament because I would get super nervous. So were there any kind of like tricks? So I assume like a sports psychologist. Yeah, sports psychologist. I mean, it was a lot for me. It was just, it wasn't too deep, but it was just familiarity was something that really helped me.

7:17Like no matter where in the world I would be, you know, having the same, like drink, the same towel, same, like how I'd pat my geese. And, you know, not to an extreme where if I couldn't get, you know, a specific bottle of water or if something was out of place, it would like throw my head away. but little tricks like that would would help me but no I was I was far from naturally talented I just worked hard I mean as a junior as a junior I was doing a little bit of damage and I'd turn up to tournaments and I was pretty confident in my ability or I became pretty confident but I remember turning 18 and once you're 18 you're now fighting men right so as like a junior player I was like turning up and was you like fully grown at 18 because obviously you can be 18 I mean fully grown maybe that way that way never I hope there's still some growth this way but but no I was I was I was pretty strong and I was you know I was a bit of a brawler but um yeah I I won some medals so I won my first national title at 15 and then three three years running up to turning senior I'd won a few more and you know I was I was getting confident I was never like overly confident but I was getting confident but the first year seniors was devastating like I went from like winning winning tournaments most months most weeks or it's certainly like in the top three like nicking a medal to like the first year not winning a single fight like on the senior on the senior um uh tour but and it was just not winning a single fight and losing fights within like the first 10 seconds to a minute you know so that happened for a year so that that must be like you then go back right yeah that must be hard like traveling somewhere and then losing a fight within 10 seconds yeah it's it's tough and that's when you get like jealous of other sports that you know whether it's tennis or football or any of these other sports where it's brutal when a mistake happens and you can lose a point but you can redeem yourself you can redeem yourself or you know the team can like pull you through if it's something like football or rugby um but like yeah judo it can just be you know the best situation if you lose is this at least if you've traveled so far is that you lose on a penalty or a small score but at least you've got five minutes or at a time they used to do golden score where you can if no one scored by five minutes you can reset you go for another five minutes so even if you lost then at least you've traveled and you've done a 10 minute fight and you've lost but equally you can you can go out and get caught for a nip on which is like the equivalent of a knockout in boxing and uh you can get caught within 10 seconds and then and that's it you know it's like just traveled to Budapest or wherever and I've been here first fight 10 seconds out and uh and you've got watch the rest of the day and uh go home you know but uh you know it's it's because those lows it's because those lows that makes the highs equally as uh um attractive and obsessive yeah and at school was you known as like the hard kid yeah i was like known as like the hard kid but never actually had a fight you know i never no one messed with you which is amazing you had this like because it meant something right it's like this horror where like no one's gonna fuck with you you can say whatever you want but uh yeah no one wants to fight you but i never i never had a fight in school so as far you never I had a few scrapes and stuff like outside school but you know I never never had a fight in school how did that never never had a had never had a the throat you know never been punched in the face at school for all anyone knows and we knew back at school I had a glass chin right I could have been it was all just uh smoke and mirrors but yeah I had that had that kind of you know that uh title of like one of the tough kids in in school so yeah it was uh had its um advantages but then it just meant some of the older kids would say he's this kid that thinks he's I'm not I don't think they think that I'm tough I never I never thought I was tough but you know I'm equally to this day I'm like I I can fight I've got you know two black belts one in judo one in jiu-jitsu and I love I love the sport of judo and jiu-jitsu but i don't like fighting you know i just i'll do anything to you know not anything but like you know but did that give you confidence in like your early years because there's so many people that go through school like struggling with confidence and knowing that you could just you know you couldn't really get bullied yeah yeah for sure like to the point now being a dad like i've got my little girl she's three and a half and she's she haven't got into it yet like into like a structured class but she's been coming like once or twice a week to the dojo with me and it's a great place because it's just just matted area right so you don't have to worry about sharp edges and she just runs around and whether she gets into a judo or jujitsu competitively who knows um but i just want her to find something that she's good at and gives her that confidence.

12:45It's certainly nice to be able to, you know, back then you walk into a classroom and you have that kind of little swag. And then even as an adult, I guess it doesn't mean anything in the world of business or anything like that. But you seem super calm though. As a person, you seem like it's almost like just super at ease with everything. Do you think that comes from like the being able to back yourself in a fight and handle yourself? Yeah, yeah. I think there's, there's definitely a level to it. Like I said, is, you know, as a kid and, you know, when those things kind of mean something up to like 18, 19, 20 is like, you know, in front of your peers and stuff like that certainly doesn't mean much, you know, in a boardroom and stuff like that.

13:26And I was going to throw down and, but yeah, I think it, it certainly does give confidence. You know, I'm certainly not someone that's walks into a room or walks into a classroom when I was a kid that thought I was, I was something so it yeah it helped so with my daughter who you know I'd love her to just have love her to try and just feel confidence through awareness of her own body and ability and yeah so what else does like judo and jiu-jitsu teach you because for me I look at it and it teaches you one how to persevere and like learn a skill over and over and there's always something that you can learn like you said there's a number of belts that you can i'm still learning now yeah two two black belts in and i'll i'll take something off a lot of people say it's addictive as well oh it's massive massively addictive i think jujitsu more than judo i would say it's it's a little bit more accessible i was talking to somebody the other day and um with my mate we've got the arena is abelinka is one of our ambassadors so we work with um their team quite a lot and her coach Jason Stacey is a he's a scrapper he does jiu-jitsu um and we were able to chat talking about how to like so you've got tennis which is like judo and then maybe paddle is is like the equivalent of jiu-jitsu you know not in terms of like energy expenditure or technical but just in terms of the accessibility and how it catches people like judo or tennis like the learning curve is like is like that right it's hard to get into it's super steep and even to this day it's like you know I still coach a little bit of judo and jiu-jitsu and if someone comes to me never done anything I'll probably I'll start on the floor which is more sort of jiu-jitsu and because you can get someone to get a sweat and you can get someone to have a good time and play and enjoy it a little bit whereas if you get someone on their feet it's it's way more specific and about control and technique and balance your own balance your opponent's balance so it's tough But jujitsu, it's like nothing I've ever seen where people get like it gets their hooks into people, especially after COVID.

15:38You know, it was like it's funny. It went the other way with COVID where in my eyes, I think, you know, there was a lot of people at home working out dumbbells. And I think people came out of COVID where they might have been a little bit bored of just, you know, some fitness counting reps and doing that at home on their own. So when they came out, despite going to jiu-jitsu, you've got someone's ass in your face and smothering you and rolling you, you know, it exploded like jiu-jitsu in the last five years. You know, it's always been climbing, but in the last five years, it's gone bananas, which is nice to see because when I started judo and jiu-jitsu, it was like try and talk to someone about judo.

16:15By the way, even my partner now is like, you know, but back in the day, it was just like, you know, judo chop, you know. But now people, on Instagram, it's, you know, on socials and stuff. it's people are fully aware of it and you know what it brings just from the physical it's like you know i talk about judo just shapes who i am because it's it's like a everyone calls it it's like judo and jujitsu it's like a physical chess game you know it's like i think it promotes a flexible mindset problem solving you know all of that stuff but in like milliseconds of making these decisions and you know so it's yeah it's it's been amazing physically and mentally to me yeah no that's really good uh what about like you mentioned when you was 18 uh the kind of level just changed one how did you overcome that and two like what was the training regime then yeah i mean it was training a lot yeah loads i mean it was honestly that era was like i look back and i'm I'm impressed with myself how to, that I kept going.

17:22Because there was times in that first year, as a young kid you're thinking you're the absolute bollocks, you know, to then just getting mauled. It's just like, and I look back and it's great. And you're like, as a 45 year old looking back when I was like 16, 17, and I thought I was just like, you know, I'm going to be the Olympic champion on this. I'm like, whatever. And you just like, first tournament I went to, I bought this French guy in a team tournament and he must have been, you know, 28, 30. So he wasn't old, but he was in his prime. And I just remember him taking like, taking a grip on my sleeve and the back of the neck.

17:58And he just went, you know, he just pulled me over. And I was like, oh, so this is like man's strength, dad's strength. You know, it was just like, so, and that happened week after week for that first year. So it was just super humbling. but um yeah it just meant I just had to get my head down and and train harder and from about 18 you know when I started doing a little bit more lifting more strength conditioning and um I was two three sessions a day sort of five five six days a week um and then these sessions what were they looking like i mean it was a lot of um intensity and a lot of volume like now as a coach you know and where we are now with you know how how things have progressed from how you approach strength and conditioning you know i look back and some of the stuff we did and you know some of the things that our coaches made us do um not because they were bad coaches amazing coaches but just you know maybe you know limited to information you know I mean there was a lot of volume and a lot of intensity was it always kind of like scrapping like on the mats or was it a lot of fitness outside it was it was both at that time it was at that time I mean we would go to training camps there was one particular training camp I remember that we do every year it was up in Kendall um in the late districts and it was first of january so like you can forget like new year's eve going out and so that was like that was like the start of sacrifices right like there was no new year's eve because it you know 6 a.m i had to be in the car going up it's called up there right oh man obviously the late district yeah it's it's the one of the rainiest places in the uk it i mean beautiful anyway like beautiful parts of it right but it was just like didn't see much of it but you would do you know you'd have three to four sessions in a day at those training camps that would last four or five days and there would be you know two hour sessions in the morning of like nirwaza which is groundwork fighting and then there'd be a a fitness session in the afternoon that fitness session some of these fitness sessions i look back and i'm like just insane you know it would be sprints up hills but you know carrying you know carrying just rocks that were like 20 kilo boulders and you know in front of your shoulders log carrying and by the way as functional as it could possibly be but you know there'd be times where okay there's a lake and you know they'd have us breaking like ice in the lake to like go through and then you weren't allowed out until your head was wet and you know you'd be like looking back at that now it's just like not sure you know that's if someone got you to jump in a nice lake and then you know in cold weather and then get you out doing circuits with stones and stuff like that proper rocky stuff yeah proper rocky stuff and then you go back and you have some lunch and then you're back on the mat doing two hours of sparring and then you know questioning why what was the nutrition not getting the you know the tournament results that you should do you know yeah they're sick and they've got full of a head cold yeah uh what was nutrition looking like back then was it was it up to date or was it no it was it was super simple it was i mean it it wasn't like raw eggs and shit like no no i mean my my diet has always been pretty good i was one of the fortunate ones where obviously when you're doing uh combat sports there's weight categories right so there's um and that's you know one thing one thing i was super lucky with i never really had to worry because i there was i was under 90 kilos and i always sat like for a long time with the volume of training and it was doing and i think just my natural way i always sat around about 92 93 kilos right now 94 95 yeah still no like yeah too late to let it go no that's good that's cool though but it was right about like your healthy natural weight so it wasn't like you was craving food all the time and you was underweight or no you're trying to stuff yourself and yeah i never i saw myself as one of the fortunate ones for that like because you'd see people would try and cut you know five six kilos like in a week before the the um the tournament to make weight and depending on what the tournament was and what weight they were but i yeah I sat around about 92 93 so like a couple of weeks before a tournament I just you know I'd stop eating a little bit later I'd reduce my it was hard to reduce the carb intake or anything like that because it was just the volume of training was was was so high um but yeah I just make small adjustments meal portions were a little bit smaller just to bring the weight down which for me i i honestly i felt so lucky because like i said earlier i had i had so many nerves going on in my head that if i had to worry about weight which was another thing to worry about i think it it could have had an adverse effect to me you know but some people used it to their advantage some people when they're cutting weight that's their kind of like you know start they've got two or three weeks they lock in and they cut down but but yeah it was um yeah i i was fortunate on that front made listen I was funny yeah I made sure I got what I need my macros were hit and was always pretty good but I always had a bit of a sweet tooth as well and uh what was your go-to not sweet yeah I mean sweet but like I loved a pastry come on Emily almond get to Gail I genuinely I said earlier you guys said like do you want a coffee or something else but uh yeah I should have had my ride I should have had a rider with a coffee and all the croissants and the pastries but it It was like, for me, I just, I love pastries, like undercooked, like doughy, the warm pastries.

23:51That was my, so, you know, we trained a lot in France. The level of judo in France, it's like, it's a national sport. Is that the best place in the world? Japan is, Japan is where it originated, but there's certain countries like France, because just proximity and my coach was French. I used to train with, in my last part of my career, I trained with a phenomenal judoka called Darceau Yanzi. like incredible judo just like turn my judo was quite sort of I don't want to say eastern european some sort of more wrestling style and physical darcel came and coached me and he turned into a bit more of a traditional bit more of an open more of a um traditional beautiful kind of style of judo but and that was kind of a little bit that was his kind of style but a bit more kind of french i sort of backtracking because i know some french fighters which are just absolute maulers and they're just beasts as well so they had the both but yeah so we used to go to france quite a lot but yeah did you ever go over to japan yeah went to japan went to japan a lot i used to go there sort of most years and did you do any kind of like training camps over there yeah so i used to go like i used to do a lot of off season the season was long it was i say off season it was pretty much all year round it would start back in the day one of the first big tournaments was i think it was like beginning of february out in belgium and but then the national championships used to be beginning in december so it was really long but i used to go out to japan for like four to six weeks and where did you stay so i used to be the international residence i used to go to tokai university so if you're it's funny it's if you go um judo and japan is like college football in the u.s like you know you have the jocks and you know you have the um aspiring nfl players and they all come through the universities that's like the equivalent for judo so if you go to any of the universities that's where it all starts not all starts it starts way before but that's when it starts getting serious the programs that they have so i'll go and go and train at tokoi university amongst others kodokan which was like the the mecca of um judo in japan but um tokai uh yashira yamashita was that was the coach at the time and he's one of the all-time greatest judo players like the the david beckham of judo you know if you walk down the streets with with him it's like it's quite a big thing but you go there i remember the first time i went to um went to uh tokai university in japan And I was, I think it was 21, 21, 22.

26:30And I took myself out there. So I used to do a lot of self-funding tournaments. A number of players used to, but like we'd finish the season and then I would then take it upon myself to then go and find extra training where I could go to. And like you said, this was self-funded. Back then, was there a lot of money in the sport? No. So did you have like another job? Yeah, so I was a fitness coach. So, you know, I, I went and studied, I spent, I think at the time, I wasn't really thinking too much about a career. And for me at the time, it was like, I pretty much live and breathe in a gym, you know, and I had studied sports science and I became a, became a personal trainer.

27:14And I was, I was coaching in a gym. I used to work my first job or the first proper gym I worked at was the third space in Soho. back in 2001 and amazing job and you know I've now been a fitness coach for 20 yeah 25 years coming up to um and I love it and I've always loved coaching with people but at that time it was just like it was a job that made sense you know I loved I loved this I love people and I loved coaching but it was a job that gave me you know I could go to work finish a client and then within five minutes I'm in my gym kit doing my training so you know it was like time efficient energy efficient and I could you know but it was also flexible as a personal trainer you know and the gym they were incredible third space they were just super they were and this is early days this wasn't anything to do with like what they could get from it you know there was no Instagram and posting and tagging how they were supporting anything but they were they're incredible they They gave me so much time off, but it was purely earning enough money that I could pay my way to do things like that, like self-funding trips.

28:25So, but yeah, there was no money. There's more money in the sport today, thankfully. And, you know, there's athletes that don't have to worry about stuff like that. But, you know, the first time I went to Japan at 21 and I said no smartphones. and it was an experience going out there at 21 and not speaking any Japanese. Yeah, this was, was it, I think it was like 2006 or 2008, was it like the Rugby World Cup there or something? So they made it more like internationally friendly and put up like English signs and stuff like that. But before that, it was like - By the way, it was funny because it was either the Rugby World Cup or there was a massive sporting.

29:06I should be more up to date with my, you know sporting events such as the world cup football or rugby but i was too focused on judo but there was something like that i remember going the first time and it was it was difficult and then when i went back there was other and then there was signs and it was a little bit now it's quite easy and it's quite yeah yeah exactly but the the culture the japanese culture just incredible some of the most incredible people that i've ever met you know but um yeah I stepped on the mat at like 21 20 21 years old and um you the dojo's out there like I said it's part of a university structure and you go on the mat and it's first of all the mat's like I don't know like 50 60 meters long sprung floor and it's a proper you know if you would think like a Japanese dojo that you would think on a martial arts film or something in Hollywood it's like you beautiful like entrances you walk in and it's just steeped with tradition and respect and but there's you know the first night first night I got to training I don't know it must have been 150 200 bodies on the mat and but you're talking like the depth of the level was just insane you You know, it's like, it's just because it's part of their curriculum and part of their culture and judo is so ingrained within them.

30:33You know, it's like, I don't know, I remember feeling, I think I was British number one at the time and I was like, I wasn't even touching their like national number 10 or something like that. It was just insane. But you go out there, it was all alone and you're staying at the international residence and you go down and you do your warm up and whatnot. and you get invited out to spar. So Randori is the equivalent to sparring. And it's, they give you a red belt to identify who's out. So there's a number of people out front, like 20 odd people out front. And they give you a red belt. So that, you tied a red belt on, everyone knows you're out.

31:11And 10 five-minute rounds. And there's a big gong in the corner. You know, someone hits it. So five-minute round, how much rest in between? It's like a minute, rest in between. and um yeah i remember doing hard work right it was insane it was insane at the level but it's funny because it's like the japanese style is is intense but at the time i just remember the biggest difference i was i was a brawler and i was like in your face i would like i said i wasn't like naturally gifted had to work really hard what i what i had um so i'm going out there and like spending all this energy trying to scrap and i just remember like this japanese it was just it It was way more efficient, way more beautiful.

31:52And it was more of a mental game, you know. So I remember, yeah, the first time I went out there, I was just like, yeah, it was just eye-opening. But I remember finishing the 10 rounds with my belt on. And I was like, my hands were exhausted, you know, just from all the gripping. And I remember just trying to get this belt off as quick as I could. I couldn't get it off quick enough. And then this young lad, he was like, would you like another one? and same thing happened finished that one I've done 11 rounds and I'm absolutely exhausted trying to get off and I ended up going home to the residence to sleep after 16 five-minute rounds with a minute in between and that was day one of like a six-week camp and I was just like my elbows were like I was like swear I had like severe bursitis on both elbows from night one I was I've got six six weeks to go so uh yeah just yeah that's crazy you say that they're kind of like more skillful uh i assume when you're kind of like just sparring in a gym like obviously you're trying to match up with like weight categories and stuff like that but was there anyone that was like much smaller that you sparring with that beat you yeah by the way fighting with smaller players is a nightmare is it hard oh it's a nightmare yeah just not used to them just not used to them it's like you have different weight groups different i tell you what's funny with like so they do it at some clubs but it's noticeable they do it in japan like even with lighter weights it starts from the warm-up so you'll have like 150 200 people warming up running around and then the coach will pick someone to lead the warm-up and if they picked a heavyweight so like we were middleweight so anyone from like 81 kilos upwards you're like this is going to be a doable warm-up right with like things that are like relatively simple like as you get bigger we get a little bit lazier we're probably a little bit more immobile and but if it goes below and if someone picked if the coach picks like a 60 kilo player to run the warm-up you know there's going to be fucking handstand walks there's going to be cartwheels and you're seeing like these heavyweights just like just trying to walk down the side of the mat not being caught by the coach but you know that then goes into into sparring into Randori like it is good for you to fight different different weight categories I used to fight you know maybe one up or two down was kind of like where i would that would be your tolerance yeah pretty much because under 100 kilos so i was under 90 and then you go up it was under 100 so 10 kilos and i'd sit at you know 92 93 so between 10 you know 7 10 kilos going up beyond that it was over 100 which was like they just crush you just crush it and it becomes a little bit like it for me anyway people have their own ways of training but for me it just became a little bit not pointless in any way shape or form but like it's just too different too different to what I would actually do on on on you know game day so to speak and then but I would then fight 81 or under 73 kilos and under 73 is really light but that would then make you like switch on a little bit more be a little bit quicker your hands and just be a little bit more astute with what was going on so if you find a 73 kilo they're just running around I mean it's hard work but yeah we used to try and try and change for sure but it's uh yeah so you you go out to Japan you kind of come back do you do you feel more confident wrestling and yeah yeah for sure I mean it's like it's a long yeah i remember coming back actually the first time i went to japan and i was like again because there was no social and you couldn't really get an insight to what other um other teams were doing unless you were actually there yeah i think that's the biggest difference about today and that's why like there's the levels are so much closer yeah you you have the top athletes in the world in any sport you can see what they're doing right so certainly for you And then you can literally, as well, because of socials, everyone's been given pressure to actually post their training because people want insight and it's good for exposure, it's good for everything else.

36:08So you can actually learn what the best people are doing. Yeah, exactly that. No secrets. No secrets at all. And by the way, on that front, it goes, I kind of like that and I think you can use that to your advantage. I'll get on to that in a minute. But when I came back from Japan, I remember thinking, I've just done six weeks in Japan, like money well spent it's going to be like you know I'm going to go back and just bang everyone over at the club I came back I got demolished you know because it just takes time to adapt and adjust when did it start getting a little bit smoother for you and how did your kind of like career progress it around about 2005 2006 when my coach Darcel Yanzi came on board um so is that what it took a new coach to come on board yeah and it was it was a hard pill to to swallow because I was like I was on the cusp of doing all right you know I was like I was doing bits but it was inconsistent with it and it was the consistency that I needed but I needed to I needed to adapt my judo was quite one-dimensional um you know I was really dominant on on the right hand and but if someone pin my right sleeve like I and I couldn't get that right hand over the top so I had to I had to adjust and you know I had to make the decision of like it was an uncomfortable decision because I was getting just enough success which was getting me selections and stuff but then I was getting to those events and then not doing what I should be doing so my coach came on board and basically just strips my judo right back.

37:44And again, it wasn't as bad as that first year turning senior, but it was certainly like, you know, there were certainly times where I'm trying new stuff and you just have to persevere. You know, it wasn't pretty, but you have to trust the process. So, yeah, it was just breaking the norm, what was comfortable and trusting the process. It was tough, but it was much needed. But, yeah, that was around 2005, 2006. And then moving on to, obviously you, you then went on and just missed out on the Olympics, right? Yeah. Yeah. 2008 was like the big one that I was, I was 28 at the time. And that was kind of like different weight groups have kind of like, I wouldn't say optimal, but it depends on the style of fighter and how much they put their body through and whatnot.

38:35But for me personally, 28 and the Beijing Olympics was like the one that I was really trying to push for. But yeah, super close. How serious did it get beforehand? How serious? The preparations and everything. It's insane. Like Olympic qualifying is just like nothing you experience. Like just saying earlier, like, you know, you are just, it's just all in. and part of it I absolutely love because like nothing else really matters I say I look back and I'm like the sacrifices you make at a time you know what were the sacrifices about them like birthdays funerals um relationships you know you name it like I've probably missed all of them but like of course they mattered but like the bigger picture was trying to get to where I was hoping to get to you've got to be selfish right yeah gotta be selfish and yeah you have to be selfish did you struggle with that yeah yeah I mean it's like yeah I don't want to say like oh that was my focus and I just couldn't give a shit about any other feelings whatever and it does weigh on you a little bit you know and like I said like there was you know tough times where you know you couldn't make certain events or be there for certain people but you know they also they also got it and understood what you were trying to achieve and you know in the time there's regrets you know because you're living in the moment and you're I don't know it's not in the moment when you're training and you're in like some like shitty hotel in the middle of somewhere and you're just like and you're losing or you haven't done well and you're just like what's it all for I've just missed a birthday or I've missed a anniversary or I've missed a funeral or something to, you know, and I'm not even performing here.

40:37I think they're the, they're the tough times when you're winning and it's all going well and, you know, and you're missing those occasions. Easy to justify. Easy to justify. But yeah, those, those, those sacrifices are, you know, that's, that's the tough part and the mental side of stuff. Yeah. And I feel like that's just because you're a good person. Not that you've got to be a bad person but if you like really didn't give a shit about them kind of things yeah you'd probably be a better athlete like because 100 yeah yeah 100 but then you know at some point at some point that ends right yeah and sometimes i do look back and i'm just like there are things that if i change maybe maybe probably be different like if i was like didn't give a shit and you just switched off emotionally but genuinely i sitting here today and you know beautiful family and good friends and healthy relationships i'm it all worked out right yeah i'm not like i oh man like getting to the olympics like would it like i still wish i'd got there and like anyone i talk to you know that's been to the olympics or you know i know what it takes and i'm just like immediately there's jealousy I'm like but like healthy I'm like oh man that's incredible like you know I've been to like the you know athletes village and stuff like that so it's just all of it like when they get it games it's just incredible but I have no I have no regrets like you know there's some things that I could have done but there were some things that are out of my they're out of my comfort zone or out of my control sorry it was just like you know I was working was one of them i had to work my family lived out of town and you know i had to pay rent and you know it's so things like that that detracted from you know so time energy and you know so yeah but i have no no no regrets and then when you like decided to retire from the sport oh mate how did that even come about it's the worst worst worst feeling i remember like was it so you wasn't like done with it you wasn't like you was well 2008 didn't didn't get to where i wanted to be and i had shortly after i had um timeline 2008 actually first things first i didn't make the games and then i got a phone call like when you're in like the world of combat and judo you end up knowing wrestlers you end up knowing boxers and you end up knowing valetudo or mma fighters and um i knew this promoter for mma events and i just missed out on the games and um he uh reaches out to me and he was like listen i've got a promotion for an mma event do you fancy jumping in the ring and um i've got one in five weeks or one in three months and i was like i'll do the one in five weeks bear in mind i can't i can't punch punch for shit right um but i was like the fittest i had ever been and i wasn't ready for because like judo and my combats were that was my identity right that was like that was that was me like wherever you go like i'm sure it's like with you like whenever you go out for dinner sometimes like whenever you when are you racing next when's your next event when's it and it becomes like part of you so I wasn't really ready to stop and hadn't made the decision even after 2008 to like hang up the gi and so I was just like the fish has ever been probably you know I didn't feel like because it's not even when the decision happens you it's kind of like it's it's ongoing it's never like you can't you kind of know your performance like you'd spend 18 months traveling around the world training and competing and you're fighting the same people week in week out for that 18 month period so it's not like you know it got close but then towards the end you're like okay i just you know i'm not being selected um but yeah i did this one mma event and um i won it funnily enough like the guy was so worried about being hugged and thrown and taken down to the floor that he sort of nullified his game but i did that and then shortly after i tore my meniscus in my knee had some surgery which was probably in hindsight quite a good thing because it just made me stop rest and recover let's just see the bigger picture as well i always think of injuries as a bit of a blessing if you look at them the right 100 i mean it took me a minute to because i hadn't quite decided that i was gonna like stop but then after that injury and then you know with work was picking up a little bit and it was actually quite nice just my mindset just to be a little bit freer seeing my friends a little bit more and you know I was never never a big drinker I spent years not drinking but like if I wanted to go out and have like a beer with some mates and just be a little bit social it wasn't something I had to really think about but um it came a time around that period that I ended up deciding to retire and there was one guy that he is physiotherapist greatest physiotherapist um this guy called Kevin Lidlow he looked after me for most my career for like a good 10 12 years I still see him now so he's looked after me like 20 plus years but um we were at a party and we had a mutual friend and we were at a party and I had made the decision to in my head to retire after surgery so must have been about like a year later and I saw Kevin and bless this guy he used to work at the third space and looks after everyone and anyone like not anyone like everyone like he's he looks after like elite athletes to royals to but he's just phenomenal as a therapist and a human but um he'd deal with me he uh knew there was no money in judo and he knew i was just coaching to sort of scrape by bare minimum but if i ever needed to see him he would um tell me to come after clinic you know i'd quite often get a text at like 10 o 'clock at night saying can you make your way over i'll come and see you because that was after clinic and he uh he never charged me a penny he was just like like you just win me medals you know so I was just like he just looked after me I just felt so blessed to have him as part of my ecosystem support to keep me together but he was he was the first person that opened my mouth and I was just like Kevin and I was so nervous telling him because like I felt like I hadn't got him enough medals to justify the amount of treatment that he'd given me but um i remember saying to him like you know i've made the decision to retire and like those words came out and i was like just felt just felt awful um because it was it was just what did kevin say he didn't say much he's a man of few words um and um there's man of little judgment he knows that i would have thought about it didn't try and talk me into it but I think he knew that I wasn't really done you know um and lo and behold about eight months later I was like London's just on the doorstep you know I could just take over I was working but I was like it's like part-time working probably you know 50 working and even more than I was when I was trying to get there and then I just sort of take over and see what i can do but you know and i got close but not not close enough for london but uh but yeah so that was a tough time like talking about retirement but yeah it happens to us all yeah of course but then you obviously transitioned into becoming like a full-time coach yeah yeah how was that how was it going from like being so selfish and self-centered with like the training and everything to then putting it on to your clients and actually giving a shit more about others than your own kind of like training because I feel like that's what you've got to do when you're a coach right yeah yeah it's a weird shift it's a weird shift and it's I mean I love like I said earlier I love like I love coaching I love I love actually more than coaching I just love human connection and just meeting good people like actually you and I like we'd never met before today but we got so many mutual friends we started talking through one of them and because like and then here we are today just having a having a chat and just to catch up with ease I just absolutely love this connection so coaching for me it was it was an easy transition in terms of you know doing a doing the job I love and doing it as a full-time coach now just solely focused but it was it was interesting it was definitely it happened at a good time because I was still coaching when I was trying to get to the Olympics like really heavily you know but you know even as a coach was probably guilty just you know understanding what performance is you know I was like 24 25 and like super involved in myself and my understanding of performance and I probably pushed that onto clients indirectly but probably in a in a nice manner but like you know by the time I retired you know I was a little bit older and then made the transition fully into just coaching you know it was it was a good time and just understanding what performance actually means to different people in different chapters of their life, wherever they are.

50:41So, yeah, it was an interesting shift. What did you have to learn in that period? Did you go and do any more studying? Because I know you are really performance-obsessed and performance-driven. Like you say, you're coaching all these different people. They might have different goals and stuff like that. But yeah, did you have to study more? Yeah, so Third Space was amazing. When I was there for the early part of my year, I was in there from 2001 to 2005, 2006, and I was under two guys. There was Adam Booth and Pete Marciano, who were incredible strength and conditioning coaches. So I didn't go away and study further, but I was under them heavily to the point where Adam Booth was also David Hayes' manager and coach.

51:30so shortly after I had retired um Adam had reached out to me to get me involved with David Hay um and prepare him for his fight how did that feel when you got that call incredible I mean I've known David David and I and Adam we've known each other since 21 since the early early days um but to get that call um and to be trusted at that level with you know David at the time he was cruiser and heavyweight world champion it's funny going into a sport you know like that's my first introduction like working with with him but you know it was it was such a fortunate position working under Adam who was just an absolute beast as a coach but more than that it was his thing about coaches just you know you need the experience you need the knowledge but it's applying it and understanding what's in front of you and with elite athletes it's a totally different ball game and then you have elite athletes who are in the spotlight as well and understanding the um what that does to someone and their energy and we talked about earlier like energy emotions and that management around that as well so it becomes less about not less but say it equally becomes as much about what they're doing in the gym as they are outside the gym so they can perform better in the gym and on fight night so yeah and did you give advice on that i feel like every coach can relate to this because you're not just a coach you're also a bit of a counselor therapist probably more of a therapist than a coach really yeah i think working with David was was amazing and I think I maybe I don't know maybe he might say different but there was I think there was a level of respect that I sort of got just by default of being a being a fighter myself and having been having been there there was one instance where I had him on a versiclimber we used to verse climber is one of my I don't know if you've ever had the I've never actually done it.

53:37I mean, do it, but don't do it. It's a beast of a machine. But I used to use the VersaClimber a lot with David, certainly in the earlier part of the camp, just if he was a little bit heavier, just to get weighed down before he did too much volume with his running. There was a fair bit of respect from David knowing that I had been there and done that. But even then he had forgotten about it at one point. I think I had him on the VersaClimber and as I'm coaching I'm never one for screaming and shouting and like I think you know working with elite athletes it's a really different mindset and I took that approach to whether I was working with like elite athletes or just you know you know a busy mum busy dad or you know a high performing person in a boardroom but like it was just I was talking to that I would never scream or shout at David you just didn't need to because he he knew it was on him to perform and what he had to put in put in and if you know if you need me there screaming and shouting it's it's there's something wrong you know so we're talking and I remember just it was like we're doing some intervals on the Versa climate and I was relating something about late in the round and how we'd have to dig deep and something and he responded like what what do you know you've never been in a fight and then you could see him catch himself and he was like okay and just get on with it but I think because of the nature of our relationship where we knew each other really well but then that I had actually been there and done it to a degree but without like the spotlight and stuff but yeah probably one of the strongest part of my coaching I feel is just the ability to try and read the person you know and you know they might be standing there and telling you that David would turn up and say right I'm ready for this ready for that and I can do this but there's something in his eyes or his breathing or just things he's saying that doesn't add up and you know being flexible in what that training session might entail so yeah and sometimes would you completely change a session based on that?

55:53I've, I've told clients and athletes to be like, okay, halfway through a warm up, let's, let's just call it a day. Let's go and get you, go and get your sleep and come back tonight. And you're, you're not scared about saying that obviously like they're, whether they're paying you for the hour, whether they're, you know, sometimes you feel like pressure to deliver, but obviously you're knowing what's best for them. yeah and I think it's you know it's obviously can't happen on the first session you know it takes time to build that trust go on yeah they're like what's this guy's agenda where's he gotta be um but no it takes time but it's yeah it's you know when you work with with people you know with it again whether a professional athlete or just your everyday athlete you know there's it's a very personal thing right so it's it's it's based on based on trust and and what you give and what you give up to be there and to...

56:51And to try and get the most out of your clients. So yeah, it's, I'm happy to, it's not, it's, listen, I don't want to say it's not about the money. So when I'm, if you send someone home, you might not get paid, but it's the, it's a bigger picture and you have to think about why you're there and who you're there for, as opposed to what you're trying to impose. Yeah. You care about the people. You don't care about what they're paying you. They don't care about anything. David, I just, you care about fight night. Yeah. You know, and you've got three months, four months, five months, however long camp was to get through.

57:23And that's the bigger picture. I think, you know, something we all have to remember. And even when I was an athlete, you know, I'm talking like this, how I would coach others. But we've all been there. We've, you know, should take the advice that you're giving out to yourself. There's times where I'm just like, I knew I shouldn't have gone training because I was too tired. I didn't sleep. I hadn't eaten well and whatever. and you know then you turn up to training and you get injured you know so it's it's uh you know i had someone in my corner all the time i had a phenomenal coach that i said i was talking about but just you know on a on a daily basis you know having someone there just to be like it's okay you can go home during the times of coaching david hay was you with him like every day yeah so boxing the boxing world is a wild his hq was over in voxel under the by the way it's everything you think like like like it's so rocky-esque it was under the arches in voxel under train bridge you know and it was you know the metal shutters come up and there's a boxing ring behind and it was it was uh it was a great time but like the boxing it it's intense boxing camps are super intense how intense you're talking more than judo uh yeah i yeah yeah way more intense in terms of like i don't know if it's because like the commercial aspect where how much is put on that one fight um whether it's the the money side of things or just you know that how many eyes are on it but it's also like you know someone like david especially when you've heavy weights the risk you know of injury and serious injury can happen so it's just it's way more intense but yeah it's this from the physical sessions to the intensity of sparring to yeah it was you was there kind of like all day there yeah so i i got brought on actually i got brought on to work with david for the first first fight i was going to be brought on for was the klitschko fight

59:29and yep great come on for the Klitschko fight there was a couple of points that needed to be signed but in the meantime me and Adam and David we went to Klitschko and Chisora fight in Germany where David was commentating and Chisora put on like an incredible fight he went the distance with Klitschko and it was like the fight of his career and then we were leaving the arena and then there was like what's in there as we were leaving there was a like press conference going and we walked in and we were just at the back of the room and it was like the front of the room was a table with like Klitschko, Chisora, like the world's press were like facing all that way me and David just snuck in the back and no one knew we were there and no one knew David was there and someone asked the question was like so okay looking forward to your next fight Klitschko with David Hay how's that looking and his manager was like that fight's not happening firstly I was like I've just been brought on to coach this guy that was why I'm here to coach he was like that's not gonna happen and then David was like piped up I don't know if you ever seen it there was a massive brawl in a press conference with David Hay and Derek Chisora but that was that night and that part that that started the yeah the quite toxic relationship between David and Chisora which ended up in a fight at West Ham which I coached him for which was uh yeah I think he beat him in the fifth round so it was amazing to be a part of that was one of my highlights of of my coaching career for sure.

1:01:03With coaching obviously you've coached quite a few different types of athletes yeah who else or what other types of athletes have you coached? Mainly in boxing to be honest um under Adam and in the same HQ as as David we um I changed George Groves was part of him and then Andy Lee so all three of them world champions so the boxing world I was in for for a good few years and that was in terms of professional sport that was that was um a real real highlight just coming from as a as an ex-athlete but aside from that I coached um I worked with Guy Ritchie for a long time um which uh led me to Guy introduced me to David Beckham and who I'm working closely with now as a with IMA and I still coach David in Victoria now but yeah I was working with Guy for a long time and I used to coach him and Guy's also a black belt in jiu-jitsu in his own right so he used to do a lot of jiu-jitsu together and he used to do a lot of his fitness but then I used to have the pleasure of working on his films and then any of the talent that would come on his film you know I'd be on production working with them keeping and then fit for the film, for the production.

1:02:17So yeah, it's been a bit of a wild journey with some of the people that I've trained. And yeah, it's just, yeah, it's incredible. That's insane. How does the mindset differ from, let's say the professional athletes to then, let's say Guy Ritchie, David Beckham, Victoria Beckham, how are the mindsets all quite similar because they're all very successful people in their own right. Is there any kind of like link? yeah I think it's just the discipline side of thing which is like the massive link right just absolute drive and discipline that they all have um and part of the reason that's pretty much the main reason why these people are doing do they are they that obsessed with their fitness yeah with everything else in the life pretty much yeah pretty much I mean the only difference I'd say with the athlete is like you're training this individual for this particular thing which the physical output that you're coaching them for has a direct, like has a completely direct effect, more black and white on fight night.

1:03:22You know, so that's, that's a direct link. There is a, there is a link, obviously, like if I'm coaching someone for a film or if you're coaching guy or whoever it might be, but they, they're not having their, they don't have that fight night. There's no like result. They're performing. I mean, the result will be feeling better, looking better and being better. And then by default, performing better in front of the camera or just performing. So not taking anything away, but yeah, that was the difference of like, there was a, certainly like, you know, you're going to get punched in the face, right?

1:04:00You know, if you're going on a film set, you know, you're not going to get punched in the face. there's a difference to that. But yeah, that was the big difference. But the discipline is like the red thread through all of these high-performing individuals for sure. And do they still train hard? So like David Beckham, does he still train hard now? Mate, every morning. Even when he's traveling, I'll either have him on Zoom or I've given him something to do. So when he returns, he just picks up where he left off. But five days a week, every morning after the school run, it's not much changes. So yeah, he's, same with Victoria.

1:04:36Like the pair of them are just, I didn't say obsessed, you know, it's a really, it's just almost like Victoria said it. It's like brushing your teeth. You know, it's part of her everyday life and his everyday life. You know, he's been, he's performed at the highest level. He's one of the, you know, country's greatest football stars ever. But, you know, it wasn't, he didn't do it to become that. He just did it because that was part of who he is. And he's just taken that through into his, you know, now 50s. and he's a super disciplined and detail orientated and like as a, as a coach, like he's just like absolutely dream to coach.

1:05:12So, yeah. Yeah. And when you're actually coaching them, are you, obviously aesthetics come either way, but are you more of a performance based coach? Do you have metrics for the people that you coach rather than saying, oh, we're going to get in great shape? metrics more than shape shape for me was always by default yeah like always part and parcel like if you're doing the right stuff like that for me was always kind of like taken care of i've never done actually i say never i did one when i was working with david we had a chap called dave morton over at men's men's men's health um actually he reached out to me every year men's they do a transformation piece.

1:06:00There's like three editors and they all go off in their different directions. And he rang me up. He was like, would you, you know, do you fancy training me for 12 weeks to see where we can get to? And I was like, I don't really do this because I don't really believe in it. I don't believe in like going to extremes for 12 weeks, get you ripped up and then send you off in your merry way and then for you to put the weight back on. And then we ended up having another conversation. And I was just like, listen, I also don't think your readers are going to find this very interesting if I do it, because I'm not going to go to those extremes.

1:06:28If we do 12 weeks, you know, you're going to eat clean. You're going to train hard. You're going to sleep well and you're going to repeat. But it's not going to be it's not it's not going to be anything extreme that people are going to, you know, hang on every word and try. And he's like, OK, cool. So I ended up doing it. And it was funny because we got to about eight weeks and then I was slightly invested. and I was like, fuck, nothing's happened. But then, and by sort of week nine, you know, it all compounded everything we started doing. And he had lost a fair chunk of weight and he wasn't ripped up like the other two, but he was physically performing better, felt better.

1:07:11And then to this day, we stay in touch. And, you know, this is like 10, 12 years ago. And I think he's only put on like three or four kilos since. so it was just like implementing certain things to that he can maintain and it's more sustainable and like it's better for life right much better for life and that's the same with my guys you know it's these guys that take david for instance he's like the family is first and foremost you know like he's up and doing the school run before he comes to to training every morning um but then a schedule flying here there and everywhere different time zones so you know his inability to get like consistent sleep on a you know is is tough and then that affects your digestive system with the timings that you're eating so you know it's it's difficult so there's so many like it's all well and good me going right here's the program for the next three months this is the block of training that we're doing you have to meet this you have to meet that but like there'd be multiple times if i just stuck to that and was inflexible in this way to do he wouldn't he wouldn't be able to meet it you know and then how does that make someone feel when they can't meet what you're putting out to them and so it's it's metrics but it's it's being flexible with understanding someone's schedule yeah what's a what's the typical training session looking like for me or for for david and then we're going to move on to you strength strength training strength big focus on the strength for him and Victoria really don't do too much too much cardio with them he loves to play you know when he's out in Miami with a team he's training with a team so gets his cardiovascular plays paddle and I'm just you know and he enjoys that you know the geezer's done I can't how many kilometers on a football field running you know so he's done his he's done his fair share of um of running and cardio and obviously he enjoyed it but it's at this stage it's like what is he gonna enjoy and what is he gonna sustain so is it typical kind of like bodybuilding split not really splits i mean sometimes and again it varies because of the travel but it's it's usually compound exercises big functional stuff you know i'm a big believer of and that leads into mine again like i said about dave morton it's it's not fancy but it's your big lifts it's your squats, your deadlifts, a push, a pull.

1:09:41You know, I'm a huge fan of rotation, which takes me from my judo days, you know. So, you know, those four or five movements in variations from dumbbells to bars to cables, you know, but it's pretty simple. You know, on the odd occasion, we're chucking, you know, if there's something, we're chucking some biceps, you know, get a little pump on. So there is a little bit of that, but that's more to do with, you know, just variety and just keeping it light sometimes depending on what the session is required but yeah it's it's mainly strength and it's mainly compound lifts yeah and what about yourself pretty much the same yeah yeah pretty much same you know we're not too dissimilar in age I've got two kids and it's is that what you enjoy as well yeah I mean yeah it's uh it's it's all over the place at the minute you know um my enjoyment I was just talking about doing enjoy i still i still do judo a little bit although it hurts right it's uh i do a little bit more jujitsu now than judo it's a let it's it's it's not easy by far and you walk away like absolutely knackered and broken but it's judo is explosive you know it's it's it's tough on the body to get thrown and the impact you know but um so i do a little bit more jujitsu and i get my cardio from there my enjoyment my social that's the that's the bit i love doing um but yeah for for lifting it's it's really much the same but right now it's it's funny it's um it's a it's a real flexible mindset at the minute with kids you know and it's it's nice but it it takes a minute to adjust different priorities right different priorities you know even you know it's uh leading up to having kids you're kind of like i was training two or three times a day for years you know so even for me for a long time it was like even getting one session a day and it was like okay that was good but is there time for a second one right yeah and now is it kind of like one session a day now it's like one session a day i mean you know it's i think last week there was a i got in the gym twice last week you know i didn't get on the mat either so it was like one or two sessions last week um which is all right which is cool you know i think as you get older like me certainly I kind of like open my mind to like like you know even when I train my like David you're looking at the bigger picture and you're looking at the cycles and you're looking at peaks and troughs you know if you're doing like four or five month training camp with David Hay you know my mind is is way more like that now so it's broader so instead of like looking oh you know what did I do today or even what did I do last week it's more like okay what did I get in this month or you know it's so it's just being a little bit broader and by the way it's just like having two young kids it's it's exhausting so like picking a little man up he's like a little kettlebell and yeah so it's it's a little bit different at the minute but yeah and I want to move on to Iron Mate yes obviously it's it's pretty incredible how you're involved would you be able to say how like tell us how you're involved yeah it's I mean stems a lot from just the relationship and the work that worked so closely with David over the years.

1:12:59And how did like the actual brand come about? Because it's quite new, right? Yeah, it's, so it's been on the market now for about 18 months. I've been involved in for a little over two and a half years. So early stages, David had met his co-founder Danny Young around about that time. And to date, there's been a number of times where, you know, the team have done something within health and wellness and just asked for some advice you know what do you think of this what do you think of that um david was moving forwards with with um danny jung of im8 and um he just said we'd love you to go out and meet the team as my coach and just find out a little bit more about the um about the team and who's involved and what they're trying to do i mean he was like they were kind of in and doing anyway just kind of just look at it a little bit deeper so I find myself at a table in Hong Kong meeting Danny Jung and the team of Prenetics at the time Prenetics is like the overarching company and the team that Danny had pulled into pulled into place to build out IMA and it was just man it was amazing it was I sat at this table talk about the other day actually I was sitting at this table and I wish they'd gone this way I'm sitting next to Danny and they did all the intros going this way right I wish they had started this way because the geezer next to me he was uh James Green who was chief science chief scientist of NASA for 32 years right so but that was just the end of like just these people were just getting more and more impressive then there was me like former judo player and coach is this the scientific advisory board yeah so just like so that that was the first part of like the product was in development um there was some things that we had some input in and you know to david it was super important as an ex-athlete that the product was nsf certified and what was the product actually made to solve simplicity and complication david is you know he really he's for all the things that you see out there he's just like a straight straight up guy straight forwards guy and he performs at such a high level but he likes simplicity and we were talking about earlier like less is less is more and it's like just getting the fundamentals right and that was that was really David that he wanted to create something that was simple for people to take on a daily basis week in week out month in month out and that was that was pretty much you know the um the emphasis on the product itself so yeah they I came back you know and actually when I went out there it was I don't even remember that first trip if I got you know you've seen the product now and it's you know it's it's it's it's a good looking product and you know it's it's it's great to look at but I remember going out there the first time there was no talk about it's going to look like this this is what we're going to do you know it's going to have this feel There was no real talk about the actual physical product itself beyond what they were trying to change, what they wanted to achieve, who was involved.

1:16:11And it was super refreshing because I'm, I would say pessimistic or skeptical. It's like there's a lot of supplements out there and good, great ones, bad ones, you know. but I'm a huge believer of, you know, getting the fundamentals correct and using supplements in the correct way. Like, you know, supplements is the word supplement. It's supplementing something else. So you still need to get your sleep right. You still need to drink your water. You need to get your whole food nutrition right. You need to recover. And then you can start looking to then build on top of that for that extra edge. But yeah, just very fortunate to be involved with some very, very special people.

1:16:59Yeah. And IMA itself, like the actual core product, it's served as kind of like all your micronutrients, right? Yeah. So it's 90 active ingredients. It's like to explain it as like you think of a comprehensive multivitamin, but in sachet form. And it's got a huge focus on absorption. so gut absorption and gut health um you know yourself it's like it's all well and good sticking even the correct whole foods in your body and your and your macros the correct macros in but if you're um if your gut's not doing the job that it's capable of doing it it doesn't matter really what you're what you're sticking in it would just uh chuck it straight back out so that's that's the biggest focus on the core product on the daily ultimate essentials but um yeah it's it's doing touch wood it's it's been really well received in the last 18 months and um yeah it's yeah yeah i think just just that being so slick like the product uh i was lucky enough to obviously you send me some but uh it's uh like how it comes the packaging like everything's so like premium and like gold standard yeah the taste of it is great the simplicity like you mentioned and just the fact that you know you're starting the day with getting in your micronutrients you've obviously got to put it in water as well so you're hydrating yeah yeah and then you're just ticking a box and like you're at ease uh right and again everything you just said is literally literally everything you just said was the essence of what the brand was built from and what david wanted to create you know that that's it but you know with things like the nsf certification like you know that was super important from David as a as an ex-athlete you know it's like athletes can take it at this level with confidence knowing that if they do a drug test it's they're not as well I don't think people realize how expensive it is to get something third party tested it's by the way I am this is coming from me that's been an ex-athlete who's every year get you know you get a list like this long of all the banned substances you know so I know from that side of things but i had no idea until later in life and even further with im8 like the process and the expense and the scrutiny that you go under to get that certification and by the way it's not just like boom there's a certification and you get that you get that stamp and you're good to go you know it's it's reoccurring you know you have to get that however many it's a certain number of batches have to be tested exactly so frequently yeah so and it's it's by no no means cheap so it was you know beyond like the the packaging and everything looking great it was literally you know for one of the better terms like you scratch the surface there's actually something underneath there you know it's not just a celebrity-led brand it's you know this you mentioned the advisory board like it's it's insane you know we've got dormus and leon on the on the on the board um and then just yeah it's it's insane so and for yourself what's what's next in your career because like you say you're super busy at the moment uh do you know you've got numerous businesses yeah you just mentioned that your partner uh is obviously a business partner yeah so giovanna she is we've got an agency you've got uh agencies called owners um and it's it's uh it's me and her she's the she's the brains and the and the beauty of the operation um she was we've had the agency for about six years and we are strategic advisory so consultants for brands within the wellness industry so we support imate within the uk market um so aside from like the ambassador story and the shareholders story that i'm involved with personally the agency here in the uk heads up all sort of strategy and partnerships activation community build you know it's d2c the brand so we're now in the uk just supporting ima on how to build the community out you know and um with good people hence why i reached out and it was just like do you want some product um so that's the agency but then the other side of the of the of the agency we have a gym and wellness design company so over the years been fortunate enough to work with some of the individuals that we've spoken about like you know i've i've designed gyms from concept to, you know, zoning to just refurbing gyms and procuring equipment to now working in hospitality and building out wellness experiences for guests.

1:21:32So it's busy, but it's, yeah, life is good and fun times. But the next stage is just being a good dad, really. That's my goal. Yeah, that's incredible. For kind of like aspiring coaches out there, have you got any advice? nothing that we haven't just covered really. I think just, I think that the biggest thing I see, not downfall, I think the biggest trick that coaches miss is, is listening. It's just really, like really and truly listening and looking at what your clients need and want, you know, or what they want and what they need is is the biggest thing like you know we've all got and I'm I'm one of them and I said it earlier it's just like you know I came from a certain type of training background what I was training for what worked for me and I'm sure there was a in fact I know there was a period of time that I knew what worked for me I'm and I was like that can work with other people that's my methodology that works for me my philosophy and no doubt I was guilty of potentially pushing that on other people without like you know just having blinkers on this is what you need to do to perform well you know as we get older and have life experiences you know and just start broadening your your um horizons a little bit and understanding everyone has some shit going on in their life that we have no idea you know and it's just respecting that so yeah just honestly that's i wish i could give something a little bit more juicy and like a secret tip but for me that was that was for me was just like listening was was the biggest thing and then you know because like things like talk about kids like that's another another level right I talk about being busy I'm embarrassed now that I've ever said to a parent when I was single that I was busy you know I'm just like and that's not taken away from anyone like you know that that is busy and doing great things but like now being a parent and juggling and then so now when i'm coaching like even like with david and victoria you know they've got four kids so and they've both got incredible businesses and schedules which are crazy so you know even in the last four years of having kids i've added a layer of listening and understanding to my coaching skills and hopefully it's you know hopefully it's working yeah have you got any advice on that balance because like you mentioned there, you're juggling a lot of, spinning a lot of plates.

1:24:09Yeah. Even today, like, you know, off air, like something's just gone wrong this morning for you, but like you was like so calm about it. And it's just, I don't know, you've just got this calm aura and like this, everything's going to be fine. So there's your judo problem solving, right? In terms of like, yeah, it just, there's very little out there that, you know, if something's happening, you know that stress is gonna change it you know you just have to be solutions focused and just I think staying calm honestly that was like staying calm and problem solving is one of the biggest traits in judo that I could probably take into everyday life now you know because like you're someone trying to tear your head off you know and you've got to try and remain calm while well uh they're trying to do that and then think about what your next move is um so yeah maybe it's that i don't know there is a moment though in off air when i was like oh fuck you know but you there's you have to move forward and think about it and yeah no no it's really cool um and then last thing i want to kind of like touch on because i think it's just like a huge topic at the moment uh the term biohacking like some people are a great fan and they want to kind of optimize everything within their life and then those are the people that may see as it is just kind of like a fad what's your opinion on it kind of somewhere in between the two to be honest um and what do you rate and what do you not rate it'd be hard for me to go into because i I don't pay too much attention to, you know, the extreme.

1:25:55We were talking about extremes earlier. I'm not a fan of extremes, says the guy that was an elite, you know, trying to be an elite athlete, trying to get to that was super extreme. But that was more of a mindset, trying to get somewhere as opposed to doing anything extreme within my own training. You know, for me, I was so basic. You know, I trained hard. I ate well. I recovered well um did you sleep a lot slept loads that were that was honestly for me it's just like I know we talk about it now but we're talking at a time when like 2004 2005 when it was you know again no social media you're not taking cues from other people which by the way is a good thing to take in cues and we were talking about this earlier in terms of like seeing what other people do on one hand it's great but on the other hand and actually you were talking about you know seeing other people's secrets you know and people saw that as a as a disadvantage but i always saw that as like you can see what i'm gonna do but like i will just make whatever i'm doing this particular move so effective that whether you see it and you know it's coming i'm you're not gonna do anything about it um anyway that was i digress but uh sleeping was like the main thing that was for me just the best recovery could possibly get a sauna and i was doing ice baths a couple of times a week even back then sort of you know 2003 2004 and that was pretty much the extent of you know and then nutrition wise aside from you know protein and creatine you know i was doing creatine from when i was at 17 18 years old and uh it's nice to see that a lot of protein like protein shakes let's yeah i take 40 grams of protein per day from external source from the shake and then the rest in terms of whole foods but um yeah i mean so that that was me it was nothing fancy but each to their own but i just i like it it's old school i remember though like growing up and it was always this probably at the time for me i grew up in like my teens were like self-development or self-development was like a huge thing.

1:28:02And it was this 5am club. If you're not in the gym at 5am, you're a failure. And it's so funny because you actually look at any top athlete and they're sleeping in as late as possible because they're trying to get as much recovery and then they're hitting the gym. I think that's where I get a little bit, you know, I've got huge admiration for like, we were talking about, um, who's your previous guest that we were talking about? Oh, Stu Stokes. Stu Stokes. Um, talking about him earlier and like, he's talking about getting up at 4 30 in the morning and for for a split second i'm like you know i feel like i should be getting up at 4 30 so there is that you feel lazy but then at the same time you're just like fair fucking play like but like and i said to you before it's just like that works for him and there was nothing that he was saying you need to do this this is what you need to do that just worked for him so you know i'm up for people biohacking and for trying things that work for them but I just yeah I've just never been a man of extreme I see sort of you know protocols of recovery protocols and biohacking methods that individuals are doing that are just going to the gym three days a week which by the way is amazing I just love movement in any way shape or form but you know like yourself running two hour 22 marathons like you're probably your protocols are recovery protocols are probably half of what some of these individuals are doing and for me i'm just less is more and like you say to spend more a little bit more time like spend that time doing something more appropriate so say for example if you're spending five hours on recovery protocols whether that's sauna massage hyperbaric chambers all this kind of jazz that you know people can do um if you just spend that five hours maybe you spent three of them training yeah two of them just switching off watching tv but at the same time we spoke of it before it was just but if you are doing all of that and then you're looking somewhere for that one percent yeah that's where some of those things come into play for sure so like that's where i sit in between in between you know someone who doesn't believe it someone who does believe it and and full on but i kind of just like make sure all those fundamentals are all squared away and really, you know, if you're in tune with yourself and you're honest with yourself of the output that you're putting in, you know, then start looking about the input and like those adjustments that you think might take place.

1:30:36But you know, there we do live in a world where there's so much noise and you said it yourself, like, you know, you hear someone that is doing something that makes you feel bad that you're not doing it. And you think that that might be the game changer, but you're only sleeping four and a half five hours a night when you're having eight nights you're eating shit it's like try that first before you try whatever that might be yeah there's just a list of priorities get the low hanging fruit first get the low hanging fruit and be consistent with it and build on it and then yeah but like yeah you there's there's athletes out there like we spoke about Djokovic earlier it's just like you know and again the things that he's doing you you can't deny some of the things that he's doing and some, you see them extreme, but he's the greatest tennis player of all time, you know, and at the age he's doing performing how he's performing, those things that he's doing, you can call them biohacking or optimizing is they are absolutely working for him, you know?

1:31:34So it's, but, you know, I have no doubt that he's built that foundation on, you know, solid ground. So thank you for today, Bobby. My absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me. I feel like we could chat all day. There you go. Thank you for having me.