Hugo Fry - #012

0:00Hugo Fry, how are we doing? Very good, thank you. Thank you very much for having me. No, it's sick. It's an honour to have you on. I've been watching your journey now since... It's so funny, I still forget that I have been putting myself quite a lot online recently. And so when you messaged me first time, I was like, I was like to my girlfriend, I was like, babe, Jake Dearden's messing with me, what's he doing watching my stuff? And she was like, Hugo, you do put videos out every day, people will see you. and i was like yeah but look that's insane but uh i feel like i know you and today is the first time we met in person yeah yeah like you say because of social media uh i see snippets of you every single day yeah apologies for that um let's say there's not many people in the running space that have a great personality and i won't comment on that yeah that's without criticism but you've got a great personality oh thank you and it's you make it fun um i want to talk about first of all your insane half marathon time oh thank you just yeah 103 103 103 35 it's it's getting annoying though because i think now i don't know when you switch from your chip time to your net time but because i was a couple of rows back my time like chip was like one 103 30 but it took me five seconds to cross the line right so you don't get that that doesn't oh yeah and then it was the maddest start i'm i've never done a high rocks but i can imagine similar vibes small pen people just like like going for it but i had like two females in front of me who i was kind of confident i was going to go quicker than and i was like i don't i'm gonna have to like run through through you like yeah and so a guy literally fell over just in front of me and there's a video of me literally hurdling this guy on the floor and you wasn't stopping funny enough he um he was training with ben is running and the guy dropped a one uh a 101 20 after falling off after falling over after like five people proper hurdling him it was a it was just a mad start and then like there was so much jostling and it's like you're you're meant to keep calm obviously in the beginning of the race and i've just like smashed a caffeine gel already hyped up and then people are like falling over your heart rate's already at like 180 it's like the worst possible start yeah all the best you're like fighting for your life yeah at the start yeah you're running not to get troubled on yeah yeah you're just like gotta go it's just it was the same as valencia as well like these it was the valencia 10k again everyone around me is running low 29 28s you can't have a bad first k so people are just like gunning it they don't care who's in front of them they'll just go through you i feel like everyone's getting so quick within the running space it's crazy but uh how have you done it because i've watched you get pb after pb whether it's in the marathon whether it's in the 5k 10k and now obviously the half marathon i i opened up my phone saw that time and i was like what has hugo been doing yeah yeah and obviously you've just taken on a coach yeah has that had something to do with it i think um so i started in covid um did the hour a day of exercise so is that where you first started like you didn't do much running before that no running i did boxing at uni okay um i wasn't very good that's it actually there's um my last fight i had i broke my nose really badly and i was like it's time to hang up the hang of the gloves how many fights did you do uh three or four um i lost uh two uh one was like a split decision thing pretty sure i lost that i think the judge was like looked at my face it's just blood everyone who's like give them something and then i won one which was like a charity boxing one um but the last one i had there's images of my nose like up here and then he punched it back into place so luckily this is what i'm left with oh that's good yeah i can't tell that yeah exactly so i started did some boxing and then yeah uni i left uh left the boxing behind and then because i i did like a grad scheme in london and you know you're going out like two three times a week minimum proper boozing I like got out of shape like really badly um and I was trying every kind of fitness trend I did like crossfit for a bit um which I really enjoyed but just really hard to find a good box in London um so I just I then started doing f45 did Barry's name of fitness class orange theory did them all and I wasn't really finding anything that I really liked and then COVID happened and um I'd done a couple of like run-through events in the past so i thought let's i'm not doing burpees in my bedroom you know i'm just not i'm just not doing that refuse to do that like just like in the corner of my room doing these like burpees and press ups i was like i'm just not doing that i'm not doing joe wicks so um i started running i did wings for life was the first like proper event i did but i did the virtual one so you had the like car in your ears how far did you end up getting i did like 39k for people that don't know wings for life is a race that happens basically the start happens at the same time around the world and you're chased by a car until a car overtakes you and then you stop yeah in 39k yeah and then i was at 39k so i'm like i know a marathon's 42 surely just just got to finish it off at this point so yeah that was my first marathon and that was like in may june 2020 maybe something like that um and then i did my first marathon in 2021 september which was brighton um and between kind of starting running and then i did know there was no structure there's nothing i the only thing i did was just run a lot and it was a lot of like zone two stuff what time was that first marathon the brighton marathon 303 303 so pretty pretty good for your first month yeah but like i did no interval sessions my long runs were just oh and i didn't know zone two training the whole idea around that either um so I was just doing easy miles for about a year like a year and then did Brighton and I was like to be honest I didn't really think I was going to do another one and I got really lucky my mate at the time worked for a sponsor at London Marathon and someone had dropped out so I got a place and it was that year where they switched to October so I got given a place and somehow I did a 252 um and then again I was kind of like what more is there left in running like sub three was the thing and then I wasn't I didn't think I'd ever be pro so I was just like oh I don't know and then everyone was like oh you should do Boston that's a fun one and so I was like sure I'll go and do that and I qualified time qualified and so I did that in the April and then since then I guess it's just snowballed and now I'm here like four years later and I'm like what what is my life it's pretty crazy um but between like that and then I did 219 in Berlin the year you broke 230 yeah um and honestly between the first marathon in Brighton and then I didn't do anything specifically that special I think the the majority of what I did was a lot of easy miles um and then slowly over time I integrated big like marathon sessions that was kind of my thing I did a lot of so like the four by five k's three by ten k's didn't ever really work on like proper speed I wasn't ever going to the track and doing 400 meters um but you know for two three years I was probably doing on average 140 k's a week year round you know and it was just consistency and I got injured a couple of times but I got pretty lucky and then over the last six months I think the key has been I'm now running I haven't got injured for a year I'm running 160 to 180k's a week every week and now I've got a coach who sets me like really challenging workouts and having that like accountability as well has changed the game i think like tuesday for example i had four by 800 at 10k pace into 12k marathon pace i was i would never if i wasn't didn't have a coach if i didn't have someone looking over my shoulder there would be no way i was doing that and so i think it's a combination of i've been very consistent and now having someone who's like you're doing this yeah yeah it's almost like you've got to uh you can't let them down yeah yeah yeah yeah i feel so like um every time i don't hit a workout or like specific paces right on like cheese that was a bit off with my marathon pace and i messaged me like i'm so sorry oh like just wasn't my day all these excuses and he's like it's it's fine like you're not gonna hit it you're not gonna smash it every time like you can have a couple of days where you know a couple of sessions it's not there's no hero workout nothing will make or break your marathon block it's the consistency yeah i think that's what the difference is with especially marathon training like you mentioned there we talk about covid only being a few years ago but it was quite a few years yeah yeah yeah like you say 2020 2021 uh so you've had a good three to four years of base building yeah say where you've been hitting 100 mile weeks for uh you know the last three to four years uh and that's obviously made a difference what are the if you could give me a couple of things that you've really changed over the last kind of like six months yeah that have got you to being good to being great because i'd class you as great you know you're on that brink of being elite now yeah thank you um I think I'm I'm very consistent with everything to be honest like I definitely portray online that I'm very laser fair but like I do try my best to I'm really trying to improve my sleep at the moment um so that's like magnesium always before bed I like I love a hot bath and that like dumps your that's like a real good way of like cooling your body down to get some deeper sleep then I'm like mouth tape nose tape eye mask earplugs girlfriend loves it um I'm like time for bed now turnover um so sleep's really important I try my best to get like eight nine hours every day um so that's like the first I think pillar and if you I think 10 o 'clock 10 to 6 o 'clock every night I don't really I aim to not have any social engagements that go past like nine um so i think that's super important i think one thing people overlook for sure yeah i think like you say they're touching on the eight hours sleep but having the eight hours sleep the same time yeah going to bed at the same time getting up at the same time each day yeah it's really important as well it's probably just as important as the amount of time as well for sure um but but yeah so that's one thing that's one thing i think we'll say look i'm super lucky i have a nine-to-five anymore i don't know when did when did you go full-time uh october incredible congratulations yeah it was um it was such a leap of faith i was like 20 000 followers and i just hated my job that's why i quit i it wasn't because i thought i was gonna make i i had a couple of small smallish deals and i thought if now if not now when like give it a full go i'd used all my annual leave to go to kenya um in the in the march yeah so i thought you did that yeah how was that

12:08um it's not for everyone i don't think it was for me and why is that i love running i love running don't get me wrong i love running i need other things in life and it's it's there's nothing there is nothing there but running like there's one petrol station where you can get a mass bar and that's it that's it there's nothing else it's lovely it's beautiful lovely scenery people are lovely out there i just like and when i when i have nothing else to do i overdo it so i was every morning i waking up i went for a swim then i went for my run then i had breakfast then i like hit like a gym session then i got on the bike then i go on another run i was doing like three three and a half hours every day for four weeks and like i just broke myself because there was nothing else to do the wi-fi was terrible she's like there was nothing to do how's the food like to be honest it was people like say it's really bad it's not it's actually pretty good like it's very simple um you stay in these they're not hotels they're kind of like kind of camps but um they provide everything kind of buffet style it's a lot of like lentils rice like one you get eggs in the morning lunch is like very much veggie then dinner it's like mutton or sometimes rarely chicken but sometimes chicken very like simple stuff russians there was a lot of food it was just not a lot of variety right okay yeah um and so like like it's just very monotonous and if you're very monk-like and like you have a rigid plan then I think it's great and if you enjoy that but for me I was kind of just making it up every morning I'd wake up and go like what should I do today um and also like you're at altitude you're what 2 ,500 meters in altitude it's still like mid-20s so it's pretty warm you you're sleeping worse because you're at altitude and it feels like you're breathing through a straw every workout kind of sucks because you're at altitude and so like you're hitting these like long 35k runs and you're way way off so your head's kind of going a bit as well for me at least and so I was doing like four by five k's and I was going for like a 217 at London to in prep so that's why I out there i was running like mid 320s and everyone's like yeah that's fine but you're 10 seconds off marathon pace even for a 4x5k and i know your altitude but like for me that was kind of because i love like hitting paces in sessions and when you're kind of so far off it and it feels so hard it was kind of just a bit your mind's kind of going and so i was just like hammering the training and i got home and everyone's like you look terrible you look so burnt out and i was like yeah did you find the altitude helped i have no idea to be honest because then i did london and um i completely flopped i did a 108 first half and then second half was 130 so i walked probably about 12k a bit yeah and i like passed out over the line there's a video of me um just like getting carried away by paramedics yeah so it was a real it was a real tough pill to swallow because i'd used all my annual leave for it i spent thousands going to kenya all in preparation for london get to london and just like tank it was really so hard not to mention probably hating almost every moment you was in kenya yeah yeah i mean it was it's great because i met gabriel out there yeah um and i dormed with him and now we're literally moving in together on monday oh yeah so we're renting a place in teeting yeah that's a full circle moment that no that's really cool um but like you say i feel like if training is not enjoyable you you don't progress as much yeah and if you're not hitting paces if you're feeling like crap in your workouts and like you say you can justify it because you can say that you're at altitude but yeah it's not it's not the same yeah i always say like so for us now i guess training is sort of how we earn money so we really have to take it seriously and like now I'm a lot more focused and I think when I had a normal nine to five sitting at a desk all day does not help but also you've only then got what if you're really militant you're waking up at 5am I was probably waking up at 5 36am you've got two hours in the morning then you go to work then at night you've got two three hours again where you've got to eat you know relax a bit and then put your training in if you're not enjoying what you you like you're how you're training then you're just like you're miserable at your job unless you really love it which is rare and then you're miserable in your training which is something you're meant to be having fun at like that's meant to be your time where you're having fun you're decompressing from your day so if you're not enjoying it literally what's the point of doing it um and that's what i've always kind of said and that's how when i had a normal job that's why i didn't do the speed work because that's not why i joined i love going out for like an easy long run that's so fun for me um so that's what i kind of prioritized when you're out in the long runs do you listen to a podcast or anything your own thoughts i'm big into um spotify dj at the moment yeah he likes to choose some weird vibes this morning the guy was just in my ears being like i'm gonna put on um some songs that really want to make you bake i was like what not the vibe i was going for and then also like the songs he chose i was like i don't want to make a victoria sponge right now that's not what i'm going for like what is that um but yeah no i'm a big um it just it's so much easier as someone else to choose your music i find with podcasts i miss something because my head will like go somewhere else yeah and then i have to like rewind i used to be a big audible guy and then i just missed a chapter because i was just like my head was off yeah also i find it a really good time to think about content ideas especially on easy runs so i'll just like listen to some music and just think what am i going to post about today yeah and going back to the point so that was one thing obviously building mileage focusing on your sleep yeah uh have you started incorporating more speed work yeah yeah so now we do one or two sessions a week and what do they look like um so very different uh to what i used to do so it's like we did the other day it was like two four hundreds eight hundred and then times that by four um so like you do like those sets so 400 400 800 times that by four um at like 5k 10k pace which is my coach sends it to me and i see it like written down and i'm like that surely is not my 5k face it's like 250 per k and you're like oh that's gonna be horrible yeah anything below three yeah spicy and i think one of the like things i've really changed in the last probably six six weeks to two months now is every time i have a like a proper session i like intentionally like do my race setup like how i would fuel for a race so that's like waking up making sure i'm eating at least like two hours before um which is usually rice which i was going to ask that then so what would you have pre-workout yes pre-race um usually just like one of those packs of rice sounds like 250 grams yes 250 grams yeah i've cooked rice um and then with honey then i have a nomio experimenting with that again i nomio and beetroot i have so i on race day i usually so you kind of look with beetroot you load up so you have like usually just one shot a day and then on race day you have two but in training i'll just have one um before a session and then uh like a bottle of nomio both of those i think are one percent if you're just the average joe i don't necessarily think it's needed needed but if it's placebo every time i've taken them so far they make me feel good so i did the exact same i think beetroot one if it doesn't help it's probably good for you yeah how many purple things do you have in your diet exactly yeah obviously it's really good for circulation and then the nomio is it is broccoli broccoli sprouts yeah broccoli sprouts again that helps with the black tape buffering yeah yeah right yeah um but yeah so yeah smash and also like the first because obviously nomia you're meant to have two to three hours before you work out it's the first thing you wake up kind of groggy the first you have to have is one of those broccoli shots and you're like do i love it this much do i really love running this i actually like the taste of them i think they're all right they're better than the beetroot really the beetroot for me i've had that maybe for a couple more years now so i'm used to beetroot but yeah nomia it's pungent i really get it but But I think also because it's unpleasant, you're like, this is going to do something good for me.

21:27Yeah. So do that. And then, yeah, a coffee or an energy drink. That's not a great habit, but they do get me in the mindset. And sometimes I feel that's helpful. And so, yeah, that's what I have like two, three hours before. Then 15 minutes before my session, I'll have a caffeinated gel. if like usually for a marathon i'll only do this for a marathon but if i'm doing a 5 10 or half i won't but an hour before a marathon i usually have one of those like 60 gram chews from precision um and there again quick carbs um to like load up and then yeah caffeine gel 15 minutes before and then head out and depending on the length of the session anything over an hour i'll start like properly like having gels intra and so you train that so when it gets to race day it's there's nothing different yeah you're kind of used to everything you're not changing anything up for a race day exactly and also i like i remember so many times like doing sessions feeling really bad and thinking how am i going to do this on race day and then realizing i'm just not feeling properly for those sessions and actually yeah it seems like a lot to do on a tuesday morning however a you say you don't change anything up on race day you're used to it your gut's used to it and also if every workout you do is like just a couple percent better over time that really adds up and so like yeah the one percent might seem a bit extreme for a tuesday morning but actually if i go and smash a session and do some paces I never thought I'd do every week for the next three months before my marathon on race day when I'm doing something hopefully crazy it shouldn't feel too mad.

23:21No it's really interesting I've seen someone Josh Kerr I don't know if you've seen any of his but he practices his race day to like the T so often within training so he'll just it'll just be a regular training day and like today we're going to mimic yeah the entire race day so whether he's got to wait around for two to three hours before yeah a race he does exactly that ah nice and he mimics the entire day so when it gets to race day like no stone is left unturned yeah he he knows everything that he's going to do um i think that's for someone like him as well it's probably a bit different because for like for me i know my race is going to start at like 8.30 to 9 a.m every like every time like a marathon i've never seen a marathon not start at that time yeah it's kind of perfect yeah i remember doing when i did houston it started at quarter seven in the morning so 6 45 in the morning cim did that as well and i was like this is way too early but it was also kind of great because you was done by 10 i don't know i kind of like a marathon is like a full day like i like oh do you like it yeah i like a whole build up you know also i don't really want to be waking up at 3 a.m to smash yeah true but maybe i'm just the american ones start early yeah they do i think i don't know whether it's because it gets hot or just because they're early rises i bet you it's something to do with the road closures they have to pay yeah a lot of money and they're probably like cheap yeah you're on yeah it's probably easier to close the road off at 5 a.m yeah yeah so if you close it off at 5 a.m it's probably a lot cheaper than doing it at 10 a.m yeah makes sense that but uh i think i'm used to high rocks and just the dread of high rocks starting at 7 p.m it genuinely kills me off because every time we have a race and sometimes you'll have two days back to back you're just waiting around thinking about the race all day you're trying to nap you can't nap because you're nervous you have to think about eating right all day yeah and you're like what do what do i eat at 4 p.m before my race and like it's it's super simple you know you're just carbon carbon up all day but you don't want to eat too much so you feel super full you need to be hydrated there's just so many more factors that come into play yeah when you prolong that day and then not to mention the caffeine at night i because i the first ever proper race i did at night was the bpn one and that was a 50 miler i had no idea what to do that day it started at 7 p.m i think it was at 6 p.m from i woke up at like nine and then i don't know what you did i don't know how you eat i didn't know i didn't ask anyone i probably should have messaged you be like hey uh what do you do like tell me because like i just yeah like when you wake up it's so much easier also your bowel movements are super easy like then you you know you're not feeling like heavy whereas i got to the start line of that race and like i felt heavy i was also like caffeinated up to my eyeballs at like 6 p.m at night like oh i've got the shake so i don't know how you for high rocks do that well you just don't sleep the night so you finish your race the race might finish at nine half nine and then you're not going to sleep till like 4 a.m which uh is a bit of a nightmare when everyone around you is asleep yeah yeah and i hate lying in bed and not being able to sleep and you're just like oh this is so frustrating and then thinking about you've got to you've got to race that following evening yeah you're not going to get the sleep that you need for the next race it is a little bit of a nightmare but it is what it is and you attack yourself pretty high is it hard as well yeah yeah it's only like what 50 minutes for you now that's easy what is it it's just 50 minutes it's just 50 minutes it's not it's not marathon uh but and that is one thing i don't know about you but and i don't know how you do it because you've run so many marathons yeah so like frequently in my opinion like you're almost running marathons more than the pros run like regular marathons yeah yeah how do you bounce back because i really really struggled it's probably taken me a month yeah until until i'm feeling back right and i've got like no niggles everything's kind of settled down my hip flexors were like super tight yeah i swear i might have actually done something to a hip flexor like you know severely strained it yeah just casually yeah but yeah it's took me a long time to get back how how do you kind of speed up that process and get back running i i actually don't know to be honest i think i've definitely i think my body's very good at handling volume do you think that's just because you built it up over time yeah i think so i did i think i think what people miss out now is that when a lot of people start running and they go i'm gonna just run a marathon that's the first thing they do they sign up to them like the number people I see online being now like oh and I'm just gonna do a marathon have you ever run before no so it's like I started in COVID so I couldn't sign up to anything it forced me to have a good year and a half of base building and so I built that up and then I signed up to an event and I think people miss that so much and so I spent a year before I did a marathon really just working on volume and like building up slowly like you know doing going from 50k a week to 100k a week doing the like 10 a week kind of volume adjustments and then for the next four or five years i've just slowly creeped up and up um and i think you so you've been sensible yeah i'm well i mean to an extent i'm actually smiling because uh to my left of me i've got my videographer tom and he has signed up to an ultramarathon he's never run a marathon but he signed up to an ultramarathon yeah tough well my point more was around that is that if you um like just then go and do a marathon right and you've never run one before your body's gonna be so wrecked and like if you're not used to like week in week out doing like high volume it's gonna be hard to bounce back but i think because i like have done so much volume in the last couple of years in like for california international marathon i did um 217 i think maybe three days i felt really bad but and that's it yeah and then i was back to and then i did a t100 the week after oh yeah i saw that yeah it's crazy that was actually the worst experience of i don't know had to travel like 24 hours it was like literally the other side of the planet it was so bad i like got on the plane um in california in um san francisco and i was like oh my god i've got to be in qatar in like 24 hours this is a nightmare with a bike and like actually the t100 took it out of me more than anything else has ever taken out of me because i think again it's because i'm not conditioned yeah for the cycling and swimming so like i remember getting into the water in qatar and just being like what am i doing what am i doing and then i got onto the bike and I was about 60k in and like my glutes and hamstrings were just like screaming at me and I was like I wish I'd done some more training for this this is so stupid but I've done a and I will be doing a back-to-back this year marathon so I've got Boston which is like the A goal and then I'm going to do London the week after and I like I couldn't do two full marathons back-to-back all out but i think a race and a yeah and a b yeah and i think for london i'll just have fun yeah yeah and hopefully i'm gonna i'm you say that now and then we'll we'll see the time yeah yeah it'll be seriously impressive yeah probably like a 230 i think would probably be uh would be nice still some going yeah but i think yeah just i don't think i have a a good kind of answer for that i just think no i think the the bottom message is there is you've got to earn your stripes yeah like you've spent years and years building up to that mileage yeah just gone straight in and that's what i did i just i think i i finished high rocks training december the 15th i think our final race was don't get me wrong i was still building up my mileage before that but then i did literally four weeks of marathon training yeah and then went and did a marathon and that's probably the reason i'm battered because a normal prep would be at least 16 weeks well i think you say that though but also like you're incredibly conditioned right like you're not uh you're not above like you have you you've conditioned yourself like you also don't loads of strength and conditioning so your body is very well conditioned so then i don't think you needed to do a 10 to 12 week plan like yeah i don't think most people need if you are if you're consistently running doing a 16 week plan is correct like it's crazy long yeah i'm curious to see do you have like an optimal time of your plan that you'd like to kind of prep for because I find my sweet spots between kind of like eight and ten weeks yeah if I get past ten weeks I almost when I'm starting the plan it feels too far away that yeah I'm not really that serious yeah or I kind of get bored or if I train for longer than ten weeks like strictly I probably end up over pushing it over training yeah and then I've not peaked so for me it's probably my peak is between eight and ten weeks i'm completely i i when i um when i got my coach mario we started officially like january 1st um and all eyes were like boston but that's like four months away i was like i i when i need like things to break it up and like make it exciting like so we had barstle in there i'm doing bath half as well in a couple of weeks and if you don't have that like breaking up I just don't know how people do a 16 week block with no kind of nothing to look forward to in that um it just so it's mentally draining to just be battering out session after session with nothing also I think it's really good to have check-in points to see if you're progressing and like to see if it's working like doing a half marathon or a 10k because if you don't then it's actually hard on race day you get there you're like well i put all this work i don't actually have any reference reference because also in your sessions like you'll never get it's for me i always can get a second or two quicker per k in an actual event just because you've got that the hype the crowds and so actually doing like events within your block mean that you probably push yourself a little further as well yeah you touched on the do you want um ultra yeah yeah obviously you went was it november time yeah november 1st november 1st uh and you went out there how was it obviously you won yeah yeah it was um it was an interesting event i don't think i'm not sure i'm gonna do it again i don't the format is tough it is tough as we said like it starts at 6 p.m it's meant to be like survive the night um but it started at 6 p.m and how long did it take you to run it's 50 miles yeah yeah 50 miles it was five hours 47 which is 415 per k which is like it's just a sub three marathon close around that that's crazy but for two marathons yeah and then two and a bit marathons the train was um interesting it wasn't meant to rain and so all the comms had been like you can probably wear carbons because it was meant to be like a relatively it wasn't like there was a couple of bits of elevation but it was pretty flat and so i came and i had like these like the fluoro pink um adi pro fours and i was like yeah i'm gonna wear these and it just started pissing down rain and it's obviously a ranch on like dirt track and everyone was like oh no so i had to like get out these like really old trail shoes i brought with me just in case um and then yeah i had to be honest i had just a terrible time in my stomach well i remember listening to a podcast and you was mentioning that you wasn't happy with your result even though you won yeah yeah yeah you wanted to run faster yeah and you like you say you had a couple of issues yeah i was i was for the first 30k i was stopping probably every kilometer or two to go to the loo and then i because and then during that i was really trying to fuel because i knew how much i was losing especially in like electrolytes because also when you've been out to use that to austin it's like muggy as well it's super humid so you're sweating loads so i was trying to replace the electrolytes and the like fueling as well and i just got to a point where i was like nothing is staying down literally nothing so for the next 50k i'm just gonna have to raw dog this nothing nothing in nothing out just like let's just completely shut down and um yeah so then after that i just didn't have anything pops a couple of imodium and just like head down so from 30 kilometers to the end yeah so 80 nothing nothing at all nothing couple of sips of water bit powerade so unadvisable do not do that anyone watching don't do that it was actually hell and i finished i just remember just being like that was such a bad experience when you get to that 30k mark and like you say you you realize that nothing's staying down you're having a bad day yeah how do you stay in the fight i was like i sent a voice note to my girlfriend being like i don't think i'm gonna do that i actually think i'm gonna have to dnf this i can't i just i can't carry on i'm i've never been so unwell um and uh but i did just think i was like it's so bad but i'm sure you've had this experience before but i've put so much out online about how i'm gonna go and do this and how i'm gonna win and I was like having all this fighting talk to like build up some hype so then and also I spent loads of money flying to Austin spending like a week out there like just I had a really good time it's such a cool city but I'd come to like do well also I look like a tit I was dressed full precision head to toe like at a BPN event I'd really like put my colours to the mast like I was really all in and if i quit i don't look like such an idiot so i was just thinking the whole way around i was like i've got no choice here just gonna have to really suffer through this i just can't not carry on and did the pace slow down yeah oh quite a lot yeah yeah and my first loop so it was 10 five miles yeah so the first five miles was at 345 okay and then just slowly went down and down and then my body started to like really hurt at like 65k i think my knees sort of sort of went yeah this is this is a lot today when was the point where he was like thank god this is over but you still had a little bit of time left like do you know there's always that time it might be 40 kilometers into a marathon yeah when was it you know what i don't know when i do a marathon i don't i it's not over until 41k for me 41k yeah 41 because then then i'm like if i get cramped now i can 1k i can do but until 41k i'm like anything can go wrong how funny is it that like all you're thinking about in a marathon is please something not go wrong you're not thinking about let's push the pace let's do anything you're like i'm holding this relatively comfortable pace yeah because i've trained for it please do not cramp hamstrings please do not cramp yeah or don't need the bathroom or don't get a stitch or don't get and that's all your thing i don't know yeah no i'm the exact same every every kilometer i pass i'm like yes don't have anything wrong with me yet i get to 32 and that's usually the point where i'm like this is this is where you really like this is where things can go wrong if you're feeling at all bad before 32 kilometers it's going to be a long day in the office for you because something will go wrong but if you're feeling fine at 32 my one thing i always say to myself is um you just need one good day because like no one can take away your time when you've done it so if everything's going well at 32 you're like okay one good day that's all you need one good day i keep saying that to myself and you just start ticking off the kilometers and you go okay 35 now 36 nothing's hurting yet just one good day one good day because it's all you need and then for the rest of time you're that you've got that time that's such a cool way to look at it with a marathon when you're thinking about like pacing strategy and stuff like that are you thinking about going the same pace for the entire marathon do you set out the same like you work out how many how fast you want to go yeah no i have a plan always always have a plan never stick to it what what is your plan normally i i usually so i've got a marathon pace in mind so like for cim for example i was like i really want to get a pb so i needed to break 219.58 so i was like what three 18s three 19s per k first 5k looked down and i think i was i done a 16 minute the first 5k and i was like just again i go out way too hot i get carried away it's so hard not to um and so every time i've really done a good pb i've always negative split so i should learn from that but i know in my next event i'm gonna go out way too hot and like Barcelona I did the first 5k and my coach had literally said Hugo go out at 305 paces so that's a 1525 for the first 5k look down lap it at 5k 1509 oh no and then lap it again at the next five because I only lap every 5k is there a reason behind that yeah i just it's so mentally so much easier for me um i like to get in a flow and then if i check every kilometer if i'm slightly off it will get in my head so i just think 5k is a good distance it's a good metric of how you're feeling and then you can kind of check in with yourself have you ever looked down and you realize shit i'm like 20 seconds off yeah london marathon yeah I'd got to 28k.

41:36But did you know something was up when that was happening? Or have you ever done it where you don't feel like anything's up? Yeah. And you've looked down and you're like, oh shit, I'm still slower than what? No, I usually kind of know. Because you're putting so much effort in and you're... I've done it a couple of times where you just feel like you're maxing out and you're like, please be at like marathon pace. And you click and you're like, oh no. Like you're so far off and you're like, this is so bad. at london i had it like i checked it i think it was 25k and from between halfway and 25k things had started to feel really really bad and then 3k later um i lost my hearing you lost your hearing yeah so you know when you're like an airplane and your ears go and like you feel like there's loads of pressure and it turns out um if if that happens in an endurance event it's usually because you've had a massive drop in blood pressure and so you're like you're about to faint essentially and so I'm running along and suddenly I just like hear this massive pop in my ears and I'm just like you just feel really out of it and like kind of dizzy and like in London there's like a million people watching you and screaming and then I just couldn't hear anything and I started looking around I was like this is this is not good this is not this is this is gonna go badly for me so yeah that was um that was and this happened a couple of times since but um so it's just when i just maxed out too much i think yeah do you ever struggle maxing out is there any days where you you really struggle to hit the paces or like just the the kind of the effort required so most most like i really really struggle like mid i'm usually pretty good on the weekends when i know i've got a big marathon session i'm i'm pretty good i usually can kind of focus like lock into that like session midweek intervals i every week it's just such a chore i feel like it's like it's going to be hard and i think that mentality is not good because if you go into something with that the headspace you're usually probably not going to hit it but yeah like really struggle with the the really fast stuff and how do you how do you get over with that do you just drag yourself to the track or like you say if it's on the road yeah anything i always say anything is better than nothing consistency is always gonna out you know you can if you i'm always going to beat someone who does five or six hero sessions in a block but doesn't consistently do the easy miles doesn't consistently kind of do the one percent doesn't consistently eat well doesn't consistently sleep well if you're just consistent over everything you don't need every workout to go well so i'll just go and do it if it doesn't go well it is what it is then don't let it ruin your day yeah that's a good way of thinking about it and how do you manage in your head or it might be a conversation with your coach just that bordering that line of training hard and over training yeah or do not some people potentially say they don't believe in overturning yeah i was about to say like i don't know i think if you are smashing everything else if you know you we have the luxury of being able to recover pretty hard now so like if you're sleeping well you're eating well and enough you know you're getting into the saunas you're doing some stretching you're doing some mobility you're doing some strength and conditioning there shouldn't really unless you're doing crazy crazy mileage if your body can like my body's good at the volume i think i think i can handle it quite well so there shouldn't really be a point in a block where i can't the only reason i can't hit a pace or can't do something is because that day my head just wasn't in it i think that's really for me like tuesday for example my i had to do 12k marathon pace i did it around a track that was a mistake it was incredibly boring my mind wandered a bit slipped up on the paces it wasn't anything to do with my body feeling bad or anything i just didn't mentally have it on that day and i told that to my coach and he was like yeah sometimes that happens next week i love our chilled your coaches yeah i think i think you need someone like that really that is relaxed and isn't stressing about too much over the pace and stuff like that um what's just for reference let's go over your pbs so 5k 1442 which actually now seems like i'm sandbagging the 5k to us because my 10k is relative to my yeah which is 29 37 29 37 and then you'll have marathon it's 103 35 yeah and then the marathon is 217 52 so which ones do you want to bring down you want to bring down your 5k kind of yeah i need to i hopefully should be down in the 14 20s or something yeah yeah it was funny alfie messaged me a bad thought messaged me after the um after barcelona and he was like it looks like that 10k you were kind of sandbagging now after that half marathon and i was like thank you so i should probably be bringing everything down now um i want to do a i want to take a couple of minutes off the marathon for sure this year um have you got a time i i do you're not putting out there no not not because i'm doing yeah yeah yeah i'll tell you later but i'm doing boston and like if you get a headwind at boston you're screwed it's like it's a one way it's a point to point so it's just bad the whole way um and it's it's a tough course i think it's i think people over egg how hard boston is you know i did new york two years ago now and that was honestly the hardest thing i've ever done those bridges there's five bridges in new york and they are savage they're so tough and like there's one around like 32 33k and new york's amazing atmosphere and you like people love a cowbell there so they're just like ringing these cowbells like you can hear it your head's just like exploding with the noise and then you get onto this really long slow uphill bridge and the side it just started silent and um i think i can't remember where i came in new york marathon but i came like 30th or something so there was two people ahead of me i could see on this bridge and one guy behind me and all you can hear on this bridge for like at least two kilometers was just the alpha flies like clip clopping yeah they're so loud it's so loud yeah and you're just like on this bridge and it's just dead quiet apart from this like clip clop and you're like and you're going uphill really slowly and it's like really it just drags and drags and i was like this is one of the toughest moments i've ever had in a marathon and then it's quite relenting and then the final 2k of new york you're going up into central park and that again is like oh sadly that's this absolutely this massive german guy i'd run with the whole time and we just get up to the the first like part of central park and he just looks up and he's like not a fucking other hill he's like guy like you could just see his face just like drain um and then for the last like 500 meters of maybe a kilometer i just had the worst i get these really really bad like ab cramps so it feels like my whole stomach's like ripping i don't i don't know i've never talked to it like i don't know how what it actually is um because it's not like stomach cramps it's like my actual abs like really hurting and like they feel that they're pulling apart um and i don't get cramp anywhere else it's just it's always been here you know maybe it's just where i hold like get my cramps so like there's these photos of me like just like holding my stomach at the last 500 meters like trying to like move around to like stretch out but like it's not really like a hamstring you can stretch out yeah no it might i don't know what like the psoas muscle the hip flexor muscle literally feels like like your actual abs i've done i was just cramping cramping it's mad and i like i've sometimes like take it like lift out my shirt to see if there's anything and you see them just like wobble like moving around really weirdly so weird i was just like yeah new york was so i think to us out of the majors i think new york is one of the hardest ones because i don't think it's probably the hardest one because i don't think people go into it thinking it's going to be that hard yeah and obviously boston like you mentioned isn't the fastest course no yeah why are you choosing that to try and run a pb um i'm kind of i'm not really going to do a pb i just think a symptom of me training really well is i'm gonna get a pb but i originally chose it because i think especially at the moment in running everyone is just chase chasing times yeah and just want to do the flat races but actually some of the best parts of running is competing you know i love i'm so competitive i love racing you know it'd be fun to to go out there i i have a time goal sure but that's not the main kind of focus it's like let's see how high i can place in new york not new york in boston i mean that would be super cool to come you know top 20 top 30 of like one of the hardest races in the world and there's some absolutely massive names in there and it would be cool you know for some of them to have a bad day and we have a really good day and be competing with them and that having that challenge and I thought I'm always in my comfort zone I'm always choosing flat marathons I'm always wanting to do the Blentiers I'm always wanting to you know see IM's net downhill how about I go and do something that's like really out my comfort zone it's going to be a different type of training to it as well like at the moment I'm doing all my long runs around Richmond Park you know that's getting 300 meters of elevation it's not comfortable at all but it's just a different challenge and I thought it'd be fun to kind of change it up no that's that's interesting and have you got like you said that you want to get down these goals boston is going to be the marathon have you got any other major events this year that you want to try and achieve to be to be honest no i don't like i kind of not play it by air but i think my last six months have been my life has changed like just so much it's crazy um you know i quit my job yeah like six seven months ago now i never thought i'd be in that position in the first place and then now you get such cool opportunities i think there's no point really looking past may um for me at the moment i'll probably do a marathon in september something berlin would be cool again like that's a great i mean you've done that one it was yeah i think i might try and do that one this year it's such a cool event as well yeah um but again you know i think those races everyone is same with valencia is very very serious and it's very everyone's very intentional with it whereas you go to like a london or i mean people are very serious at those kind of events but the the crowds are so different um everyone's so much more like up for air it's so much loud like new york was just a crazy experience and so i definitely think as fun as as good as like doing a valencia is you've got an experience doing like a london or if you did london i've never actually done london yeah i can imagine if you did it people would lose their minds of course you know like the support you'd get would be crazy and i think that like effect would also just like be a really fun experience for you because how big are you in germany you've got some fans in berlin not really no yeah i don't think so whereas i feel like if you did london like people would be getting banners out it'd be super cool um so yeah i definitely think you should do like one of those what do you think makes you different from everyone else because you like you say yeah the times that you get you're you're on that elite level or bordering the elite level and like you said you've not been training your whole life you started in lockdown i think um i'm pretty uh i've got an addictive personality so it means that when i do something like i'm gonna do it and then also i do think like i do have a very strong mind to be honest like i can push myself into some pretty terrible places where did you first like realize that um boxing yeah i mean that was a symptom i think you know i had a really amazing upbringing but we had some kind of family issues when i was um in my late teens and like just going through something quite like life-altering at like a young age I do think everyone who I've met who can put themselves in the bin and like really push themselves they've all gone through something like no one's had a perfect life and I think especially for I think that's the the best thing about running is it's a great way to a like clear your head I think that's why I started running like it's an amazing like mental health I don't know it's a happy pill essentially um so I think that's why I started running and then also if you've been through something that's pretty you know life-altering that if you can get through that I'm always like I've got through way worse than it's a marathon this is chosen I'm here because I've chosen to be here it's chosen suffering if it goes badly it's not going to change my life so you know if I've got that extra one percent I can push it you know it's really not it's there to there to be had and I think I can really tap into an extra level especially over the longest stuff like I always say the five and tens are like my worst nightmare because that's a different type of pain but for that like long grindy effort like I can definitely push myself into other places and then also because I every race I start i it's you know monday is going to be monday no matter what it's not going to change my life so i'm always very chilled going into events it's I've chosen to be there and I think people put so much pressure on themselves and they get to the start line and they're just like so anxious and their heart rate's already spiking and they're like so worried and they're like once if something goes wrong or whereas I get to the start line I'm just like it it I've I'm here because I want to have some fun and it would be a disservice if I you know I've had got this amazing opportunity to go and run a race that I know loads of people want to do.

56:43it would be insulting if I was so nervous I didn't kind of appreciate my surroundings and especially when you do one of those majors but I know millions of people enter each year like have a good time like I'm so privileged to be able to get an entry if it's going awful like London last year I was walking at like 35k and I was like my race is over that's fine you know I'll have another opportunity in six months to smash another marathon out it's you know it's a it is what it is let's go reload go again you know and i think too many people just so pent up on race day so if you just kind of take a step back have a bit of fun with it and that's also goes with training as well like i'm i am intentional and i'm quite serious but i do like to have a bit of fun with it not to you know especially online like i think i always try and say to people if it doesn't pay your bills it's it's really not that serious have some fun with it do what like do the movement you enjoy i think it's such pressure now you have to do a marathon you have to do a high rock you can also if you enjoy pilates go and do that if you enjoy like f45 go and do that if you enjoy a barry's class go and do that the key is to move and enjoy and enjoy it you know um and try and fitness is there for longevity as well as also building a community like some of my best mates now are all from running and i've built some amazing friendships through it um and i think people often think running's like a solo you know activity and actually without a good team around you and a support system you're never going to get anywhere like some of my biggest supporters you know who swore my running journey are the reason what reason for where I'm at and I definitely think now having a coach as well like having someone to talk to it's such a team like if I've got something that's come up and I have to change my plans he's always up for like discussing it oh what can we change how can we move around and like having someone to talk to especially after a bad day is so helpful to then kind of reset you know change the plans a little bit and also just have someone who's there to tell you you're not going crazy because you know when you're by yourself something's gone wrong and you're like oh no like my life's over and actually having a coach or someone to like give you some advice really helps just like ground you so yeah sorry that was a long-winded way of explaining it's a really good mindset that you have yeah um do you do much outside of running so do you have any hobbies or anything do i have any hobbies yeah you're saying yeah uh nowadays to be honest like i when i had a proper job i spent i don't know seven years in it on a desk doing excel um so i worked for the zone which is the sports streamer um and then previously i did i spent five years at bt and i was just like living in excel and i lost all creativity there was nothing in my life that was creative like I I never had any like original thoughts really it was just a lot of spreadsheets and then so it was original thought like no original thoughts just excel in my day and then running it's not like the most creative you know you you get you've got 16k to do you go and do it like you've got a four by 5k that's what it's very like regimented and so I like looked up one day I went I can't remember the last time I did anything that was like creative or fun like or not you know I love running but fun in terms of kind of let like doing something creative or trying to use that part of your brain and so that was one of the key reasons I started social media because you can kind of not that I'm particularly creative on my like what I put out but I spend hours a day on like cat cart and like try and think of how to make a good story and how to make a an interesting 90 second video um and that's what i'm you know now i've gotten to youtube a bit and trying to do that longer form stuff and that's been really fun and like trying to find a kind of doing something a bit more creative um but then yeah outside of that i like baking yeah i've seen that you're a good yeah chef i a baker yeah i think people misunderstand how much i love rice as well people just think all i eat is is plain white rice and that is not true i i did apply for bake-off one year um got through to quite a quite a fast stage and didn't find didn't make it into the tent but if uh if anyone's watching this celebrity bake-off i'm not a celebrity yet so maybe just normal bake-off i can apply again that would be fun um what would you cook if you was to cook was uh a nice little cake or something yeah i to be honest um i haven't baked for like good two years it's a bit of a shame i've really fallen off um since i got rejected from bake off it's kind of yeah gone on strike yeah gone on strike from baking um that and ss who dares wins is the only other show i'd go on i think that'd be quite fun you would you'd be class at that i don't know i like my sleep too much yeah yeah i think uh yeah i think i'd suffer just because of the sleep but they for me the ultras that last more than i think 100k is great yeah anything over 100k i've done 100 miles before one of you know what no one tells you doing 100 miles is 100k is nothing on 100 miles when you get to 100k and realize you've got another marathon and a half yeah it's so bad it's horrible it is it's the worst thing like 100k is a day yeah and you just think no matter what i'm gonna be in my own bed tonight or i'll be in our bed tonight i'll be able to sleep and i can get through this 100 miles that's not the case no longer i credit to anyone that does you know extreme ultra endurance events because it's so much different and i just suffer with the lack of sleep yeah i just get super moody so i don't want to do anything i'll sit in a i've literally sat in a field saying i'm not moving i'm giving up right now that's what that's what my experience with the 100 mile i was i did end up finishing but uh the um it was tough the reward can't believe it's honestly no shade to bpm but this was the worst reward possible for winning the 80 the 50 miler well done Hugo you get an entry into go one more last man standing I don't want that give me some supplements or something I don't know like give me anything don't give me an entry into something that's worse like everyone's message being like are you gonna do it and I'm like no I don't want to do it like it sucks like it's it's not it's completely different as well people were like oh you do so well i would do i'd get to 24 hours i'd be like this is the worst like how did those guys like kim and kendall doing they're gonna do like four or five days this yeah how do you how do you even train for that i don't know i think you just do you go out to nightclubs and just stay up all weekend how do you train yeah i have no idea also it's like it's such a different you're doing what is it a 6.4 k loop yeah yeah every hour and it it doesn't matter how fast you do it i think that's the that's the issue i have with it is it's no longer like skill or performance yeah it's just how long can you go which is super impressive when it within itself yeah but but i just know i do terribly i like i get to a day and be like i don't even think i'd be i'm bad with sleep as well and i'll just get moody and i think my stomach would go but i just would get like it'd be just so i don't know how people do it for four days like i'd lose my mind so you've not got oh god no no no no no more like backyards nothing like that what's the what's the longest you've run i did um 100 miles in june this year i ran from philadelphia to new york oh right i didn't even realize yeah it's very weird i did it through work so at the zone they were they were doing the club world cup um and it was in america and they were like they were trying to look for like weird fun activations to do and I was like oh ever thought of like running between two cities to watch two matches so there was one game at like 4 p.m in Philadelphia it was a Chelsea game and then there was another game the next day in New York and it was like it literally is 100 miles between Philadelphia and New York literally exactly between the stadiums so we um we're like sure let's do it and so I had a a random videographer and the head of like social media for DAZN and like a Tesla and just they filmed me and I had a water cooler and yeah they started running ran through the night through Philadelphia then like mostly on highway it was so dangerous it was crazy and then um yeah into like the midday sun in New York in like June it was so hot it was like 35 degrees and I got to 100k and i've done a couple hundred k's before and so i was like oh i'm sure it won't be that much worse that last 60k was honestly the worst i think it must have taken me like four hours it was just it was just no not four hours it's like five six hours probably and it was just grim still pretty fast yeah i think i did it in like 14 and a half hours what you did you did 100 miles in 14 and a yeah that's quick and it was um it was proper graphic by the end and then they get they they were like they got to go to the stadium and then oh hugo do you want to watch the football i was like no last thing i want to do is watch this terrible football game it was also the worst game it was like some random like south korean team versus like a south american football team because it's the club world cup and we got in and i had to sit down there for like 20 minutes and and i just looked over at the team and i was like guys and i got to bed i'm gonna die here like can we please like get me some food like i'd spent like the night basically having precision gels um squares bars and just like power raid and stuff like that and like just a ridiculous amount of caffeine as well it was the worst diet i didn't have any solid it was just all sugar it was horrible i want to i want to move on to some quick fire questions sure sure um obviously you said that you love rice you know what last night this is such a weird story so i was doing i had last night rice pasta please explain yeah it was um it was actually for an ad but um like basically every night i have rice salmon and broccoli it's just the classic my girlfriend was like please can we just like change it up so i was like let's let's see if i can play this and i found this like you know game yeah yeah they do this pasta that's actually made out of rice flour okay yeah and it's basically just rice in the form of pasta and i was like this i've gone too far with this rice game i'm i need to change my uh my niche a little bit here i'm relying on rice too much it's quite good though you should try it i'll give it a go have you ever tried rice and pasta together like in a in a you You know, we were talking about Lindsay, the sports scientist at Precision earlier.

1:08:10And he was like to me, we were talking about carb loading at CIM. And he was like to me, oh, no, I actually like your rice thing. It's actually really good, Hugo. Like, it's great for your gut. Like, it sits well. It doesn't have gluten. And I was like, oh, what about pasta? And he was like, pasta to carb load? No, you wouldn't want to carb load with pasta. I was like, Lindsay, mate, you're taking it too far here. Like, surely. I was like, what is wrong with pasta? he's like there's far too much fiber in it oh wow well so everyone i'd like be like what yeah what you've been told to eat pasta pasta makes you faster yeah that's the saying yeah literally yeah um apparently too much fiber oh there we go so obviously you have rice yeah before yeah what should you go to post celebratory event meal after you've run a marathon so lame i can't this is embarrassing but like especially for a marathon you've carb loaded for two three days probably like heavy carb load you're trying to get what's like 10 grams per kilo body weight maybe maybe if you're pushing even higher so what you're having 800 grams of carbs a day it's like heavy and it's all like really processed stuff and so i'm usually like dying for like a salad you know it's some freshness like something that's not and also after something that's not bland yeah bland also you've just spent like the last two and a bit hours smashing like really sugary gels like your stomach's in bits like actually i don't want a pizza or like i don't want like pasta pizza or a really good curry or anything i'm like i just want something fresh um because yeah i've just spent the last like four days just pounding carbs i don't know about you yeah i think uh we actually went for a barbecue we was in houston so was in Texas we went for barbecue the barbecue's great oh my god I think it is my favourite food yeah I think I'd choose brisket over steak I could see that yeah especially when it's done right yeah yeah yeah I hit up quite a lot of nice places in Austin Austin have some unbelievable joints where did you go?

1:10:15I went to Terry's oh god I can't now off the top of my head did you go to Laurel? yeah yeah that was right by where I was it's like a Japanese smokehouse I think yeah yeah um uh johnny davies took me there a couple of times he was obsessed with that place um and then yeah there was a couple of others and just every time i went like a it cost a fortune but b just the i don't know how they make it so good um even the turk did you ever get turkey there uh yeah yeah yeah turkey even though yeah it's the driest me ever somehow they make it unreal it's so good i love yeah to be fair i could do barbecue after yeah but um yeah i'm not like i don't have anything that i'm like religiously stuck stuck to i do do you have a drink or anything yeah yeah yeah so that's you i um yeah addictive personality i think uh i can't have one you know so you get leathered i get absolutely yeah after bars are half we is that like the only time you let off steam like after a race yeah i'll if it's like a marathon i'll give myself probably like three to four days to a week of like having fun um and i'll pack all my social engagements into that week like every night we'll be having like i'll have a good time but for like a half maybe like a day um and then i just like i enjoy it but i do not enjoy the day after yeah so i'm like i'll have a fun day fun couple of days but i miss the routine when i'm not in it so um yeah i'll usually it's a couple of beers maybe a couple more and then um the next day regretting it we uh yeah we had a big time in barcelona which ended like on the month on the monday it was the first time i've had a rest day in a long time a long time and my coach was like oh is it your body like after the hard effort and i was like no it's the booze yeah just can't get out of that i'm not i'm not running on this hangover like i can't be doing this i love that when when times are tough in a marathon is uh do you listen to music when you're running i do but i'm not not in races not in races i was going to ask what's like you go to either a playlist or a track yeah there you go to when you're in training uh you find it tough is there something that you throw on yeah but i'm a big eminem fan it's a bit embarrassing to admit that but yeah i love a bit of eminem i don't know 10 years ago yeah 10 years ago it would have been you would have been the coolest guy yeah not not not new school eminem old school eminem when he was like having some real issues and he's like real some of those songs though are like they need to be veiled like they're so bad i'll be on a run and sometimes he'll like some of the lyrics you'll like how how are you allowed to say you're not allowed to say this surely like they're horrible but they get you hyped up the other guy i really like is ed f nf all right yeah yeah yeah he's got some absolute bangers um a bit more pc than m &m um i like a bit of old school hip-hop yeah um and then sometimes like that like fred again style kind of music yeah well what would you class that what is it electronic techno i'm not good with my niches and also i do easy days i'm a big like country guy all right i kind of chose you out yeah yeah it kind of helps me up a bit as well do you end up going too fast um to be fair i've seen your easy runs your easy runs you're still moving yeah yeah um it's actually depressing nowadays like i have to like when i'm running my heart rate i'm easy days it's like 130 to 140 and that's usually four to four tens four fifties if i'm still clipping along yeah and that's like knowing that every day i have to wake up for that it's like oh it's a bit of effort but um and then the only time if i want to get like really hyped up um have you ever heard of um m83 no yeah they know they know it's unreal it's like they do songs like outro and i think outro and intro and then like midnight city trust me put one of those on and just i i don't i i've recently realized i might be um i never thought i'd say this i'm a big like manifesto and like visualization and i always like visualize hitting times when i'm on runs especially easy runs and stuff i'll just like visualize because often no one's motivated to get out every day and so i'll often like not really want to be doing it but then i'll visualize me doing some crazy time at boston and it really helps and then you put one of those songs on specifically m83 and like you are you are so hyped up it's unbelievable how how powerful is that like the the power of visualization and i don't know i never used to be you know i didn't think i was like a crystals girly but like maybe i am maybe that's what i am maybe that's what like i i think it's super powerful because the whole time in that month between leading up to barcelona i was telling everyone i was going for like a 64 half marathon in my head the whole time i was like i'm gonna cross that line it's gonna be like 63 minutes 30 something like that the whole time i was like i'm 100 going to be dropped doing that and then i did it and i remember finishing and being like you know i could do that i had it in me so i'm that's what i'm hoping for in boston i'm just like properly visualizing yeah i'm gonna do something crazy i think it works yeah genuinely i think it works uh if you couldn't do what you do now what would your dream job be this was never my dream because i never thought it's possible yeah if i'm being honest uh i better than a dream or worse than a dream um different from a dream different i just signed up with an agency and my agent um phoned me the other day and was like oh you know it's really weird like you're essentially like your life livelihood and like revenue kind of just determines like you running fast doesn't it and i was like thanks thanks for that she's like don't get injured i was like thanks that's a real motivator like i hadn't realized that yet um but no pressure but no pressure but she's like just don't get injured because then you know we're all losing and i thought thanks thanks that's great yeah you sure you want to go with this yeah yeah great thank you um real supportive agency there um but um i think it's i think social media is amazing and it is giving me more opportunities there's very few downsides like my life has completely changed for the better and it's it's awesome i think i'd i'd love to be an actual sportsman i think that'd be quite fun i think that was always the dream where i don't have to wake up and make a reel about my day that would be like it would be fun but so basically do what you do now but without making the reels but be better be better be better at my sport would it be running or would it be they would definitely not be running yeah i'd like a leisure sport i think i'd love to be good at golf like i know they work hard i know they work card i know i like look you look at rory mcclellan that man lifts weights but also like you're hitting a ball and walking around it looks absolutely amazing on like the nicest places in the world in the world and like you're not you're not you're going to like crazy you're going to south africa us playing all these unbelievable the weather's always nice where they're playing yeah i i don't have any like i don't know golf at all no but i always put it on just because it's grim outside side and i can sit in and look at the sun and it's amazing yeah really far also the paychecks wild like they're getting paid millions if you win one of those you don't get that in running so also like it feels more painful um i used to be i played a lot of cricket when i was growing up so that was the a goal becoming a cricketer um which kind of like really went downhill at like 16 i was like the dream's probably over um what position did you play um it's cricket i'm not gonna fucking i'm not gonna lie if i'm up north i don't i don't think they play cricket so you don't have like positions so like you just like when you're a fielder you're just out there yeah yeah yeah someone points and you just go yeah right so there's no like you're not on the base or anything no no you got like guess there are like i guess because you got like a yeah yeah you've got a bowler and batsman and then there's like i guess positions but you don't stick to one you know you're not known for being like a fine leg you know um i feel like i've offended a lot of cricket people out there yeah paying attention to this but i don't know i think a lot of uh ex-cricketers run quite far though to be fair i get i am very niche but i have on the back of like my in my bedroom i have uh this thing called wisdom cricket which is basically it's so niche it's a cricket almanac which is basically every result that year in cricket is in this little book like every result schoolboy cricket everything crazy right um and they're like oh and they produce one each year and then you like line them up on your wall i've got like every year i buy one and they look you next time i've sent you my reels it's proper niki it's so nerdy like it's so nerdy and i get so many people commenting be like that's a lovely wisdom collection you've got up there it's it's a it's a niche for sure but the northerners are pretty good are they yeah i don't know i've got a lot of england cricket players who are northern yeah maybe i was just brought up in a school that was too rough to play cricket yeah you never know you could have had an absolute talent i think our grass was too long i don't think it got cut i'm convinced like endurance sports were created for people who are like dyspraxic who couldn't actually do anything a real sport so they would like definitely go and run definitely lift weights like you just go yeah it's so hard to fuck you can't mess up you just run in a straight line definitely that i think that's why hyrox is made as well hyrox is very little skill there isn't there's just hard work there's no skill in any of it it's just graft yeah um i i'm i'm keen to try and do one one day we should do one yeah i was invited to do one um but it was just a bit too close to boston yeah um i think it was the end of march it was like a london one yeah which would have been i think really fun i i know like my hips just aren't made for burpees so i know that would be a real pinpoint you've got something against burpees yeah twice yeah they really get me they really do i hate them those jumps would be do you think they're a little bit cringy the sled um pull yeah i think would be would be fine i do a lot of swimming so i guess like yeah i've got all right lat development the push i think i'd struggle um i'd obviously my main go-to excuse would be the the mat issues i know sometimes people people about them yeah yeah so perfect excuse so that's fine no one really that's that would have been fine the wall balls would be tough like they look really horrible from an outsider's perspective like when you get to like 80 surely that's not fun um if you're doing singles as well mad and then the skier it feels like a all-out 800 meters yeah okay or maybe about 1500 how long does it take three and a half minutes uh three and a half minutes yeah that's punchy yeah three and a half to three forty normally and then yeah the rowing i think it wouldn't it's cardio though so i think i can probably just like get through it the ski erg i i'm confident on um when i'm injured it's a it's a i use it quite a lot i've done i've done a half on a ski erg which was no way yeah see a lot of hyroxes have never done over like a 5k really and i always try and get people to do over that yeah because obviously like i say it's building the base but you've done half marathon yes it's good mental yeah how are your hands after did you wear gloves not too bad actually yeah i'd like maybe you've got uh another career yeah i think yeah the ski egg's a good fitness builder as well it does like it hurts for sure um and then i was gonna i wrote i did it because i was injured so i was like what other cardio can i do i did that and then i was tempted to see if you could do a marathon on one um but then i got back i wasn't injured anymore and i could run and i was like that's a stupid idea have you done one no i think there's some guy he's actually gone to you as well i think he's done 100k on a skier he must hate himself yeah that's real tough what's the furthest you've done you've done more than me i think i've done like 15k oh yeah get on that half get on that half yeah i'll see if i can find the further later i'll send it to you i don't i think i i don't know what pace i was doing maybe like what is it what's the 500 500 i think i was or something i think i did an hour and a half yeah yeah two or seven per 500 yeah it's not bad yeah it was uh it was a good time yeah really i got back and my flatmate was like oh how's the gym i was like how's good he's like what you're doing i did a half marathon or skier you need to look to me it's like you're not okay are you you've got something wrong with you and then what else is there in the high rocks um the farmers curry oh you're fine with that shopping i wouldn't be great yeah but i'm sure yeah i'll just carry some shopping bags i don't have to put them down quite a lot um well that's why you do doubles you can just do all the work yeah but then i've realized also you've got like i if i did a doubles i have to choose someone who's rapid yeah because they have to do because they have to do the same pace right yeah so i guess my main advantage wouldn't i mean i would have to do a singles to like show off the running side unless i was doing it with yeah someone who's like but then because i'm weak if i was doing something like you you'd have to do so much more work on the oh we do 50 50 but it would probably knock you for the runs yeah exactly so yeah how do you work that out when you do one uh you've just got to practice to be a partner yeah yeah because you've got the you had the world do you have the world record yeah we had the world record uh at one point it's been beaten now but we got that last last 2020 April so we won world championships myself and Mark a lad from Wigan so two northerners we won world championships a little different out there I think it's the weather yeah for sure and then I then partnered with someone from Australia yeah and we got the world record the year after now it's been beaten so we're going to try and claim that back nice yeah but yeah that's the plan um weird role question do you believe in any conspiracies um i'd say something so rogue you're not allowed to say that one no no that one uh no um do i believe in the conspiracies i think the world's too mad as it is i think i love the like saying where it's like no one like no no one's imagination is good enough to think to create this world yeah like some of the stuff that happens on the daily you're like what so you're saying that we're not in a simulation i just think this world is just crazy every time i look on the news i'm like what is going on it's so yeah no conspiracy theories uh the moon landing looks pretty funky no i'm joking i'm joking um no conspiracy i don't know what about you come on you gotta have some come on say something crazy and i'm sure i'll come up with something equally no i think the simulation theory yeah uh is an interesting one i think i don't know do you think there's any people out there who just npcs non-playable characters they're just because i'm sometimes like i don't know how some people just like just go through life like just every day like specific like jobs or like no just just generally i'm just like i don't we've all conformed to do just the most normal like normal stuff and sometimes i'm just like we have free will and i'm sometimes like why don't i express it more you could do some crazy stuff if you wanted to but i don't know i think i feel like people yeah yeah i feel like people like the safety yeah yeah yeah that's what i think about social media like the first couple of months it's just humiliating you're like putting stuff out there and you're like all your friends are seeing it they every you all know everyone's watching it and you're anyone who puts stuff out on social media and goes oh i'm not trying to be an influencer stop lying stop like like you no one puts this stuff out without trying to be an influencer like that first couple of videos you do you're technically everyone has influence anyway so everyone is an influencer yeah and whether you're an athlete whether you're not an athlete whether like yeah yeah yeah it is but you sometimes you put those first videos out and i'm not i'm not trying to you are trying like but everyone's like so like they don't want to be embarrassed or like they want to look cool yeah they want to look cool and i'm like i i'm like i'm not a 13 year old boy anymore why do i care what all these people think but yeah i remember putting out the one of the reasons i didn't really start for ages was because i was so scared of what people would think and so that's why i started properly doing it in kenya because i was like i'm literally so far away from everyone someone could send me a text but the actual effort of sending me a text saying you're real was stupid they're not going to do that so like i was like i'm so far away from people i'll just start and hopefully by the time i get back in a month be used to it i'll have an enough of like some momentum that it will be less embarrassing now but like yeah those first ones you're like sweating posting it you're like oh my god what are gonna people think and like no i can definitely relate i think when we started youtube yeah trying to speak on camera in public as well like you're you're going to the track there's people doing the track sessions and you're like hey guys we've got a track session today and you start talking and you're like all these people are watching me they're not watching they're just running around on track no one no no one actually cares like also even if they do right they'll think about you for maybe a second or two max and then they they'll never remember it again like half the time they're not going to go home and be like i saw the funniest thing this person was filming themselves it's like it's quite normal now isn't it yeah it's like what's funny about that yeah um also like i think if obviously you know in yourself like why you're doing it and what you you're also like a very good athlete so that you know when you're filming yourself you know you're you're providing value and like you've you're but if someone's just running past you and you're doing it you're probably thinking they don't know that they don't know like what i i'm trying to provide here so that they'll probably think you'll probably think they're thinking oh look at that idiot like and that's what i always used to think when i was filming in public and i still get it like you're walking around and i often do a lot on my iphone i'm just like filming myself out here and like people are walking past me i'm like oh this looks so embarrassing like i i'm trying to justify it but then i'm like yeah i think you get used to it yeah i don't really care youtube also is a different beast i find like i'm much more nervous to post on there i've you found that yeah the comments as well people are mean people are mean on youtube really i think it's because they've chosen to click on your video and watch it whereas if it's instagram or tiktok no one has a profile yeah like no one puts like no one puts their picture on the profile so you don't know who anyone is yeah and everyone's commenting and yeah it is people and also somehow they know how to like really hit you in the feels like they get they just they hit you in the places that hurt and they're like like it's probably like a 13 year old boy behind his computer but he knows how to hurt you like he knows with button to push and you're like how did he know that that's so right no no i love it but um no i think what you're doing is really good i i love how like you say you're expanding onto youtube now you're doing more long-form content because people need to see how much of an incredible athlete you are oh thank you yeah i think um like you say you only see snippets yeah on instagram and you like to show that you have a good time yeah which is equally important but i feel like people also want to know the extent and the kind of extremes that you go to yeah to be in the best athlete that you can be i also if i'm a youtube it's like creating a 90 second really of your day and trying to find something that's kind of entertaining and quirky and that you know gives puts a smile on someone's face is pretty not easy but it's definitely doable but i was looking at my youtube being like i'm filming a whole day here god i'm boring like it's routine and i think that's what you kind of maybe miss on like instagram especially and tiktok it's like most of our lives it's very routine it's very similar every day and that's like the consistency is why yeah instagram good instagram and sitz are like the best of yeah yeah yeah yeah the highlights you're running the quickest you're showing the best parts like you're going out to an ice meal you're doing x but the the real work i guess is most of the time that you're not filming yeah i want to finish on if we could give three pieces of advice yeah to someone who's trying to improve their marathon goal i feel like at the moment you're probably most well known for anywhere between that 10k and marathon distance probably just the the spikier end i think i think like you said now maybe yeah great you've got sub 30 10k uh but uh if you could give anyone a piece of advice what uh what are you going to give them i think uh first of all initially if you're just literally just starting out running don't sign up to a marathon build a base do do a couple of shorter stuff and then go go into the marathon i think there's a difference between doing a marathon and going to the ultra space i think for ultras that's a completely different challenge i think a lot of people go into a marathon with a time goal a lot of ultras is you're going to go you actually you're finding a lot you're finding a lot about yourself in that race in an ultra i think that's why people do ultras like you're you're trying to go to a place that you've maybe never gone before trying to challenge yourself in a different way and also most of the time if you're doing like a really long ultra you can't really train for that like there's not much you can do to train for a hundred miler you it is interesting because people think oh how many 70 kilometer runs you go for none none you can't you just can't like i did an 80k to prep for doing the hundred miler and i did that around pattersey park and i mostly did that because i thought it'd be quite a fun experiment to see if you could do like 40 laps mostly for your mind right it's nuts it's crazy but it's crazy i think there's a difference between doing an ultra and doing a marathon i think marathons are very time orientated and if you're really focused on getting a time and it's your first you're i think at higher risk of really messing yourself up unless you build a base and probably dnfing yeah so many things that can go wrong with the marathon exactly and i think you need a good amount of experience behind you before you jump into that first marathon um and i think if you want to do well like if you actually want to hit your time goal and also just not do it i think a lot of people now don't respect the marathon distance and don't do it for the right reasons you're just seeing a lot of people sign up because they know all their mates are doing it they know they'll get some interaction on social media it seems like the thing everyone's doing um but if you I think because a marathon block for most people is like three two three months that's such a commitment if you've got a job if you've got a family you you really have to to really do a good marathon block you have to sacrifice a lot and I think a lot of people don't realize that and so you've got to be happy to really sacrifice I take time away from you know your family or other things you enjoy especially the social stuff like you can't be going out and getting pissed two three times a week when you're in a marathon block you know you can't be doing that in your so if you're in your early 20s you know do a couple of half marathons do some 10s do some 5ks and then still enjoy your time outside of running unless like running is your like passion you absolutely love it then go for it but you don't need it you don't need me to motivate you but if you're just starting out you know i think too many people want to jump all in and actually it's like new year's resolutions right you'll do it for two three weeks maybe a month and then an injury will come up and then you and then you're just back to square one you get back to old habits because you've basically gone from zero to 100 so quick so like my first thing is don't necessarily jump all the way in um build up that like base first I think especially for a marathon don't focus on the one percent I think there's so much on like online you'll follow your favorite influencers who you know I if you look at me I would say just like don't follow me because you enjoy like the entertainment side see kind of how I work but don't follow what I actually do because I do a lot of one percent you don't need to do and also like don't go out if you if you're just starting out you don't need the normio shots you don't need the beat troop they're the stuff if you're the basics right get the basics get 100 get the basics right get your nutrition right um also i think this is really i think not enough men speak about it but you know i think the eating side of things is super important i think you watch a lot of the like i think the lighter is faster approach is still very much in running and i think it's girls now are very comfortable speaking about a red s for example i think a lot of guys have it and don't want to speak about it and them under fueling and i've definitely i'll put my hands up and say i've spent years previously under fueling i spent i think in kenya i was training so much there was no way i was like eating isn't enough and initially you get quicker you lose a bit of you get quicker but over time unless you're doing it very safely you can't be doing calorie deficits you're you know also again i'll bring this back if it's not your paycheck if you are in a big calorie deficit you're running 100 care week you are you're gonna be dead and miserable miserable and not nice to be around for anyone else you're gonna be miserable you're gonna be like anytime you're on any diet let alone running with a diet you're miserable you're always thinking about the food noise is crazy if you've got a partner like there's no libido there's like you know i've been there it's horrible and like no i don't think guys speak about it enough like red s and that stuff is a huge thing and if you're not careful it's a slippery slope and it's so easy to fall into and you look up one day either you've got a stress fracture because that's the classic like injury you get from being in like a deficit and running that much or you're just a miserable bastard to be around and everyone hates you but you know so i think again look out for your nutrition make sure you're feeling enough and also like my biggest piece of advice is like just train initially how you enjoy the movement if you like doing loads of hard intervals do that twice a week and just kind of like do a couple of other easy runs as you can but like focus on doing the stuff you love if you love an easy run just easy run don't do the intervals yeah like you you can you can make mad improvements by just building a base so i feel like people don't realize that how fit you can get just by just doing easy runs you can get mad like crazy fit and also just like i think yeah really focus on just move how you want to and don't like stress about missing a session or if you wake up at five o 'clock in the morning and you've got a program that says do 10 by 800 and you really can't be bothered to do 10 by 800 don't do 10 by 800 no one's gonna no one's gonna punish you just go and do what you want to do and then you know when you get better and better that's when you have to start focusing well you said before something's better than nothing 100 yeah just getting out and moving yeah for sure that's the greatest way to swim at all yeah but uh no thank you mate thank you again that was very long that was very long-winded no but um yeah thank you thank you for coming on is there anything else that you want to mention or anything no just thank you so much for having me it's been sick i've learned a lot so thank you