Imogen Boddy - #45

0:00Imogen Boddy, welcome to the podcast. Thank you, thank you for having me. For the people that may not know who you are, would you just be able to sum yourself up in a couple of words? I'm a British ultra runner, I'm originally from Yorkshire but now based in London. Incredible. I want to take it back to kind of like where it all started. For you, how did you find your love for running? i'd say i found my love for running through sport rather than directly kind of free running i've always been really sporty really competitive loved team sport team sport is definitely my like pride and joy i love love team sport um played hockey netball at school at county levels regional levels all that kind of um the progressions when I was younger and then in my last year at school I um went to a school in Cumbria which was in the lakes which was basically fell running and was like their main main thing fell running in rugby whereabouts in Cumbria Sedba oh nice um so not far from Lake Windermere and I continued team sport but like slowly started finding my love for running purely because the school was kind of that was the direction of the school and in my last year at school I a lady came to the school and did a talk um and she had done something called the arch to arc which is when you run from London to Dover swim the English Channel and cycle from Cali to Paris and at the time I had done competitive sport played it regionally paid um kind of national netball and never kind of pursued it any further and I think I had an itch I wanted to scratch and after this lady doing this really badass challenge I was like well if I can't get it through team sport and through kind of the what ifs I'd had previously through sport why don't I try and enter the endurance space and do something so I raised money for charity the school charity and ran from run a marathon around Lake Windermere swam 10k in Lake Windermere and then cycled back from Lake Windermere to Sedba and that was yeah what I thought was kind of an itch I wanted to scratch raise money for charity do something while I was at school and then it kind of spiraled from there that's incredible and uh you said that like you know obviously like you've come on to achieve so many different things but like that's how old were you at the time when you that's insane was you into like triathlon before that no not at all and I actually hate swimming and like haven't been in a quarter since um so I think partially one of the swim was like the main thing and I used to do like how far was the swim 10k it was far it was far and i used to do two or three sessions a week my i was very lucky that my teacher used to drive me to the lake she'd sit there she's a labrador she'd like walk up to labrador up and down there um by the side of the lake and i'd be in there with a teacher and a kayak um swimming practicing head down the water honestly haunts me i hated it but it was one of those things that i think i was so scared of it that I wanted to like achieve it um but yeah well what is the thing that like kind of puts you off it I think it's what's underneath you I remember I'd like have my head down and then you'd have a boat that came past and you'd have like the oil fumes of that or you'd see like oh whatever's underneath the fish and the black eels and oh I hated it I hate water I'd wear these like little booties as well just to like make sure that I didn't touch the weeds I love that I'm not gonna i think i've been exactly the same yeah i've actually tried open water swimming a couple of times and i don't know swimming it's just what's underneath like you say could be a huge fucking monster you never know i think it's like all the like when you're younger all the tale that you get told it's just like haunts me yeah yeah open water terrifies me i feel like i'm uh whenever whenever i do it i feel like i'm in like uh have you seen harry potter no i actually haven't seen you've not seen harry potter although the fourth one like there's a challenge that they do it's like this cup thing and they go swimming under and like there's yeah it's weird they go swimming in scotland somewhere but um disgusting yeah yeah yeah completely um so i'm like still so proud of that achievement because it just like it haunted me so much um but yeah that's how i got into the endurance space that's pretty insane what like you say obviously you you had a role model but what like made you go so big so fast because that's like say it's pretty pretty big for a 17 year old to go and do something like that i think at the time it didn't feel that big and one of the things that i think previously i guess has been one of my biggest strengths is well i don't know one of my strengths but a strength that i've kind of played to is being like naivety and actually just not knowing what you've got coming up and also like not overthinking it when you're younger you have like zero fear and i think at the age of 17 i was still at the stage where i had zero fear so it was just like oh let's just put this idea together i'll train for it like i wasn't an academic i did a b tech rather than a levels so i kind of it was all coursework rather than what in sport oh cool um so i had the time to put training between lessons and like after school and i just kind of made it work and didn't ever think it really so from there what kind of happens uh i left school and didn't had a place at university but just before i went i was like what am i doing i went to a school that the kind of path was just like it was like go to uni or go to uni there was no other kind of option so i had a place at oxford brooks and was it was the summer before and i was like what am i doing i like don't want to go to uni like I don't I had a place to do sports next high science but I was like I love sport but why don't I just use it in a different way became a personal trainer um lived for a bit in Newcastle of all places why Newcastle my sister was at uni there and I think I had this idea that like socially I wanted to be at uni to make new friendships and that was the way of kind of making new friendships after school and so I kind of went there thinking that was kind of a thing to do but it was the worst a couple of years it was I was working in a gym trying to pursue my passion which it was my passion very much is my passion while also trying to pursue something that I thought was kind of like the social thing to do and go to uni but not go to at the same time kind of managing that like gas situation um it was really difficult but did that for two years how was uh personal training loved it i loved it it was it's so funny and i was actually um so i do only run coaching now and i love doing that but when you are like immersed in it you i'd coach like clients on like whatever time obviously you do early mornings because that what's what most that what's works best for most people you really like you then lose the love for your own training like your training becomes a burden because you're just so focused on training other people um so it was weird it was like two years of while qualifying and properly going all in on kind of being stuck in the gym I like lost a lot of love for my own training because I was so focused on like just being in the gym helping others but it was cool it was a it was a stepping stone and I'm very like grateful for those two years before moving to London but it was um yeah weird why did you decide to move to London um why did I decide to move London I don't really know I think I didn't really know where I wanted to be next um I knew London was kind of great for work and it was a I'd been in Yorkshire kind of late district for school but Yorkshire kind of all my life and I traveled a bit and um done some time abroad but um I just think thought it wasn't you know a progression a progressional move to move to London um so worked at a gym called won london and fulham and that was an amazing like i'm so pleased i did that and it was a yeah definitely a big move in my career for kind of where i am now and meeting people was was that the the reason for kind of like meeting people uh i think i actually i don't know my sister was living in london and i was just kind of like it's good work opportunity i was a personal trainer and i think kind of back then there wasn't that many faces within like social media and the space and I remember looking out to a lot of personal trainers or kind of faces in the space and being like they're all based in London they're all being really successful maybe that is the kind of move to make um maybe that was an influence I don't really know why I did it but so was it was the aim to kind of like grow social media um no kind of like personal training or just kind of like gain knowledge of these amazing people that were in the I think it's getting knowledge and I just initially I worked as a front I did half personal training half working as a front of house and at this gym in Fulham and yeah I didn't really I didn't really know where I wanted to go with it um I just kind of stopped running after I did this challenge back when I was at school and I was just doing exercise and enjoying exercise and I think there was definitely something a part of me that I missed because exercise and team sport had been such a big part of my life and kind of my identity so I was kind of using fitness as kind of like just a way of being rather than having it as my purpose and kind of a career I was helping people rather than using my performance as well and then yeah I don't really know and then it just kind of I have a really good friend called Josh Patterson and he was a member at the gym I remember seeing him training on the treadmill and I was like I didn't know that much about Josh before but I remember being really inspired about how he was just like head down on the treadmill and I went up to him and I was like you know what are you training for x y and z got chatting and I think at the time he was doing run for nations maybe he ran a marathon in every in England Scotland Ireland Wales I think that's what he was training for um and he was like I'm doing this and I was like I want to do something again I was like I miss it I was like I've got more to give like whatever and then I ran seven marathons in seven days in 2021 and then from there I was like okay maybe this isn't just an itch I want to scratch maybe it's actually something I want to just keep doing and keep seeing what I can do with it how did you find the seven marathons in seven days like back then it's funny I was actually chatting to um someone earlier about it because to that day like you always like I'm so proud of that achievement and at the time it was I thought it was so hard but like I guess my training age my like durability it was all obviously so much less so you're always proudest of those like you look then look like looking back now I'm like oh seven marathon days all relative I completely appreciate it if you listen to this seven marathon days is an amazing achievement but like I look back now and I'm like oh that was easy because of what I've kind of gone on to do but at the time I was like it was brutal like it was so hard um I remember being like kind of riddled and riddled an injury um well niggles rather than injury but um yeah at the time it felt like you know like a huge achievement and really quite difficult but so that was like your one of your first tastes of like just doing like running specific uh multi-day things uh how did you feel after like you achieved the seven marathons in seven days and was it was there a time during that seven days where you wanted to give up no not in that seven marathons in seven days um I was really proud of it and it's something that I'm massively working on now and I think within this space it's like doing what I'm trying to work on is even more important because we look at people we look at ourselves and you're always wanting to better yourself and you'll be proud for a couple of like even so a couple of two months ago just over two months ago I ran this B project from LA to Vegas so I'm completely jumping here and I was so proud of that achievement and I said I'm so proud of that achievement but then like three days later I was like yeah but what if I could have done that better or what if I could have done that better or that person had a four by four vehicle we didn't have four by four vehicles like etc and it's so easy to nitpick your achievements and so one thing I've massively working on is being proud of the achievement you've done and like not always having to think about the next like next further thing and i think it's difficult i think we're wired like that to you know it's the be working of a sports psychologist and it's like the chimp in your brain wanting to kind of you know better or improve or nitpick at something but um it's something like one shouldn't do as we know yeah definitely uh separate celebrate your wins yeah completely yeah no matter how small as well i think i think that's important but um yeah let's uh let's move on so obviously since then you've done some tremendous things uh seven mountains in seven days after that was it joggle yeah yeah how was that amazing john o 'groats to land's end i ran from john o 'groats to land's end yeah i did 60k a day um at the age of 22 took me 22 days um that was an adventure of a lifetime and i think that still is like an adventure i absolutely loved like it was the bubble of being in like with your crew and in a bubble of like thinking about nothing in the outside world I'll never forget being in we went through the lakes and I ran past an office window I can't remember which town it was and there was someone doing some photocopying and I'm looking in the window being like oh my gosh that lady's just living her life normally she's just doing her photocopying at work and I've just run from John the Groats and I'm now in the middle of the Lake District and it's so funny that like when you get in those bubbles that you think about nothing apart from putting one foot in front of the other and getting from a to b um yeah that was an adventure that was so cool it was um yeah a huge experience and huge learning curve but a real adventure and you got the record for the youngest ever female yeah still holds still stands um i'm sure it'll be broken soon but it still stands that's it that's insane so yeah and then after that what uh what came next what came next was the three peaks around the national three peaks um two years ago just over two years ago now um would you just be able to explain for the people because there's a couple of when you say three pizzas kind of like a walking one where you travel in between and then what what did you do yeah so traditionally you um do ben nevis scarfell and snowden you can do it from like snowden ben nevis so snowden scarfell ben nevis or the other way around um via a car and you do it in 24 hours which um is an amazing achievement a lot of people do it and it's a big charity goal a lot of people um but i ran from um fort william um kind of harbour pier um to ben nevis ran then ran from bennett to scarfell from scarfell to snowden and then finished in carnavon and wales um one hand in the water there um which was seven just over 700 kilometers 10 000 meters of elevation so that's just the hardcore way to do it you just said fuck it i'm not gonna drive i'm not gonna be like normal stupid way to do it yeah i'm gonna run and was it like a challenge before uh you did it like was quite a few people done it before yeah a few people have done it um there's there was two variations doing it from the foot of Ben Nevis and finishing at the foot of Snowdon or doing it from the sea level variation so we did sea level variation which is now kind of the known way of doing it and I don't think anyone will ever do the foot variation again um it was broken the last time it was broken was in 1970 by an Olympian called Anne Sayer um who um yeah which was quite cool she was yeah I mean an Olympian inspiring athlete and it was like an honor to break a record i guess i did it in six hours five hours six days sorry five hours 45 43 minutes that's insane so yeah how was that whole experience amazing brutal um yeah brutal i think it was incredible it was i didn't i didn't realize so it was the first time think that moment was the first time that i realized like maybe i could actually do it professionally and have more of a kind of um future with it and kind of um bigger performance goals with running itself um so it was definitely a career changing moment but I think the one thing that like I loved and again all I was thinking about was putting one foot in front of the other I like didn't realize that people would pick up on it and that was never kind of the primary goal but the amount of people that inspired was like so touching and I loved that because it was just like you obviously do it for yourself you do it for your kind of well I do a lot for myself and for a lot of kind of inner achievement but um whether well previously it's been for charity and this one was purely for myself but the fact to inspire people was like a really just like amazing moment within it because it was just like the people the messages that I get now being like oh I've you know I've done three peaks now because of you or whatever that That was like a really cool moment, I guess, as part of it.

17:30But it was brutal. It was a really hard challenge. It was really tough. What were the hardest parts? I think it was like, so we had, so we did finish every day, kind of whether it was at like 2 a.m., 4 a.m., midnight. We did try and have like a cut-off time for every day. And I think when you finish that day and you're like lying in the van or camper van and you're just lying there, and I happen to be project as well, you just like bolt upright thinking, oh my gosh i've got like an hour here to rest until i have to go again and those like moments like they'll forever haunt me like i will keep returning to i would do endurance sports um endurance distance and ultra running for the rest of my life now but those moments haunt me you're just lying there thinking i've got like however much recovery until i have to go again those i hate that do you ever get used to that i don't think so i just can't i don't know how i don't know even on the speed project i'd be like lying down i'd be like someone like have a two minute nap now um but I don't think you'll ever get used to it I think it's just like and you you're like you just push yourself harder and harder don't you so it's gonna haunt you even more and more um but they're hard moments um there was one moment when so speed project was when I kind of fully nurtured power napping and having cat naps but before then at three peaks there was one moment and I had a huge breakdown in the middle night on the road and it was the first time a cat nap was um explained like suggested to do so cat nap for references like wherever you are whether you're on a trail where you literally just lie on the side of the road or the trail and have like a two minute three minute nap to like give yourself some quick refresh and then go again and for me I just couldn't get my head around the like idea of doing that like I thought if I had to sleep I had to sleep in a bed or have to sleep on like somewhere soft um but yeah i'm now fully embracing it that i think that three peaks moment would have been less daunting if i had um adapted to it but it haunts me that breakdown i had on that road in three peaks it's interesting and like you say the experience you gained from that and the knowledge that you gained from that going into the speed project which i want to talk about like in depth because yeah just just somewhat what what you did and what kind of like the the speed project speed project is for for the solo race yeah so the speed project is an unsanctioned race you run from santa monica pier in la and finish at the las vegas sign in las vegas um the race is unsanctioned so you do all the planning yourself um relay or solo so relay you can do it teams of six you don't know relay yep and then solo you do it solo crude or uncrude there were actually three people that did it uncrewed I did it crude um but it's everything I love about um running like it was the planning I've never previously done so much of I've kind of had um help with for both joggle and three peaks so a big goal of mine for this race was to do the planning myself um my coach Robbie like looked over it and very much kind of gave his opinion but I was the kind of sole well sole person doing it which I loved it was like definitely a challenge and definitely things I would have done different we'll do differently next time but um that was the kind of beauty of it and making those mistakes are the only way I'm going to learn so yeah and you it's basically the quickest way you can get from A to B on foot and um what route did you take by the way because there's quite a few different routes and you did do the planning you just mentioned but um so so say for example uh we did it as a relay and the main decision was do you go off-road oh we did and you do power lines where where it's kind of like a little bit sandy or just stay on road we did half sandy so half half road half power lines right um which was the kind of um the big change that i'd make if i did it again so we did power lines however i didn't realize that if you did power lines you wouldn't get vehicle well i did know you get that wouldn't get vehicle access but i didn't realize to what extent you wouldn't get vehicle access so if you do power lines you can have a jeep you could have a quad bike a motorbike anything that goes off it's got to be a four by four a four by four that's the one whereas i kind of did realize that but didn't realize the kind of impact it would make not having a four by four um so we did probably about I'd say we did about just under 100 miles worth of power lines and didn't have 4x4 access for any of that um so there was a very dark moment that we had on the top of the mountain just before we came into Prim Prim is the first town before LA before Vegas and um it was super cold very very windy I'd completely run out of energy and I was very depleted I remember lying on top of the mountain like shivering I did have a crew with me I had two people with me and they were kind of blocking the wind one person was so fun to me one person to the left they put their pack their running packs on top of me to try and keep me warm and I remember having like a two minute sleep just to try and kind of rejuvenate myself and if I had a vehicle I think the experience would have been very different um and yeah it was a very dark moment I was very very depleted but I think that would be a change I'd make in the future with definitely to be having a 4x4 vehicle and particularly when it was hot and during the day um not having water water access for long times it made it very difficult yeah I know um and particularly we were following the leader who was a guy called BL and I remember seeing his vehicle tracks the whole way and I was like oh my gosh at least you know that he was on the right route because uh especially at night I remember when we did it we hit the power lines at night and it sounds so simple at the time you've got to basically the power lines route and it's called the power lines route is because there's two sets of power lines and you've got to stay in the middle of them and if you stay in the middle of them you're on the right track um but for some reason like that there are places where you don't know which way to go yeah completely yeah um so at least you had them tracks to kind of like i remember getting lost when i was top of the depleted in a very bad state i remember we actually got lost at the top and i remember um johnny and tom being like we're on track i was thinking i know we're not on track you're fully lying to me my watch was like beeping being like off track i was like we're off track i love that so um how important is it to have a support crew because a lot of the things that you've done you've had a big support team and i know that you've said it on prior podcast like how much it means to you to have other people there so much um I love having a crew I think it probably comes from my like my team sport background and one thing like a lot of people say to me would you ever go back and play netball I'm like I'd love to play I have not the time to play it but I think that's one thing that I've always loved about sport is the team element and one of my friends who crewed me for speed project we actually didn't know each other that well before we saw we met on a start line of um UTMB Nice about three years ago and I remember looking at her we were both unsponsored both at the like relatively at the kind of front of the start line I remember looking at her being like she's my rival for this race because we're both unsponsored we both look kind of similar standard x y and z anyway um I actually had a really bad race and she had a really good race but we kind of friends each other afterwards on Instagram and anyway she ended up crewing speed project and she is literally like one of my bestest friends now and she is doing UTMB this year and I'm crewing her and I think for me like having that partnership with someone or with a group of people being able to support each other back in different ways is like the biggest thing for me and I think I'd definitely have some different learnings if I did a solo race and I'd 100 % want to do one at some point um just to experience it but the whole point like i love running because it's i love running because it's fun i love running i love the adventure i love everything it brings and i think i think one of like it's one of the biggest things i love about it is having a crew and the kind of journeys and stories you make and the giggles that you have along the way so it means so much to me to have a crew i love it yeah that's uh that's cool like you say you can celebrate the wins with them yeah you can look back in years to come and say i remember when we did this crazy shit like say running from uh la to vegas it's uh not every day you do that yeah well you probably experienced it when you did what you would have experienced when you did the relay from like LA Vegas you like the memories that you have well literally one of the best times of life yeah completely it was sick um yeah no no that's really cool um what were the highlights of the journey like from LA to Vegas do you remember like any points because I feel like everyone goes through like highs and lows what were the high points i think one of the i think one of the highest points was i say this and we've actually done a small documentary on it and i say in the documentary this is so hard so many times but i think i enjoyed and the whole thing like yes there were some dark moments i was the first time i properly hallucinated and that was pretty scary but i loved the whole thing and last year I started doing 24-hour track running I started two races and pulled out them both I put all my worth on those races all my worth my worth on getting my first GB vest and I thought that's would like validate me as a runner like I thought I had to get my GB vest then people would respect me as a runner they'd think I was worthy of it and they think I had a place in the space and I hated running last year because of it I didn't think I had a place in the sport and it was so tough and I think it sounds really deep but I guess when it's your passion in your career like it is deep and speed project I put zero pressure on myself like I genuinely like breaking the record wasn't even like in my vision like it wasn't even like considered and I think the biggest hype on it was just like loving the whole thing like just enjoying it all like yeah that was hard but i loved it like it was such an adventure like america is wild it's so cool everything is so big and it's crazy did you uh along the way i don't know if you you saw any signs but uh for alien jerky no no so i don't i think you i don't know whether you actually go through the town but bar stalls along the way no um and uh obviously like well i've driven it as well hopefully not um but um yeah so between there there's like a lot of alien sightings and then area 51 is like close to nevada i don't know where it actually is but um yeah it's huge for like alien culture out there which is a bit mad but you didn't see any of that no so like any any kind of like town or anything like there's there's all like souvenirs and it's like everything's like uh might have been dark when i went through yeah i was quite ahead i was quite the word I'd make it so I had to be like, in my lookup because you're like, look around.

28:42Maybe you just... Maybe I missed that bit. Yeah, you were just, you weren't fucking around and you was like actually doing your job of getting a record. Maybe that's what it was. Yeah, I definitely, I didn't see anything about that. So go on then, you brought the record. Yeah. What was the time? 77 hours, 54 minutes. And what was the prior record? We broke it by just under five hours, I think. That's incredible. When did you know that you was on track to break it with like a hundred miles to go um we were like oh actually or maybe a hundred k to go we were like actually this is possible and i remember we this is a really silly moment we were it was after i'd had my very low depleted moment in the top of the mountain and i had really bad this is quite tmi but anyway who cares i had a really bad chaffage like all over my legs and i remember being like oh it was the middle of the night and I was just like so done anyway I took my shorts off took my pants off ran in shoes socks and a top and I was completely like bare underneath I remember being like having the freest moment basically pantless running down the mountain Johnny who was like um just a bit in front of us um he wasn't with me and my boyfriend Tom was there next to me and we were going on chat GPT and I was trying to work out the timings and I was like this is one of the weirdest moments i think i'll ever have in my life wearing my pants in the middle of the harvey desert trying to work out chat tpt timings to break the record so that is a bit of a cool memory yeah well i say you'll never do that again i don't think i'll never do that again um i remember johnny being like obviously didn't want to like look at you so he was like basically think like working out my pace by my footsteps so every time like my foot footsteps were going a bit faster he'd start running and every time they slowed down he'd like walk but just a bit in front of me that's so funny that's so funny um so that's when we knew we're using chat tpt and then my friend poppy was like if you do this pace you'll hit this target if you do this pace you'll hit that target so did that just like like give you like endless motivation to to kind of yeah then we locked him yeah with 100k to go we were pretty locked in and what pace were you kind of like running at this point so obviously like you say you've ran 300 miles um the final 20k i was probably doing it like five and a half minute k's but the 80k before that i was probably doing like seven to eight minute k's yeah yeah but you feel like you're running so fast there's seven to eight minute k's and like my body can not move any faster but i think i'm super solid right now no but it's crazy isn't it like let's say when i don't know when you know the finish lines in sight like how you just pick up oh my gosh yeah and all the pain goes and then when you stop the pain hits you like no tomorrow how was it like finishing underneath the uh vegas welcome to vegas sign it was funny because it's such a tourist trap and all the tourists are like stood there obviously waiting to get their photos yeah they're queuing up all day all night there's people like queuing up to get the photo with them we like charged in having this very like emotional like moment and everyone was just kind of staring at you obviously not realizing what you've just done um but it was really cool it was everyone was like when you went into vegas you'll because everything in vegas because everything in america is so big you think and it's but you can see it from so far away i thought i was going to come like over a bravo hill and see vegas but you don't do that like i remember being like where's vegas where's vegas and then we kind of went down the hell and we saw it but i was expecting this like a huge like city but i mean it is a huge city but it did take a bit longer to find it than i thought i thought like 50k out i'd see vegas but no what does what does the training look like for something like that um training looks like how does training look it kind of well i'm racing on saturday um 100 miler and my training since finishing america to saturday has been not what not the optimal training for 100 miles it's just been recovery but training for um this b project i probably did like between 100 miles to 200k weeks um as like my peak peak weeks and then um particularly being a female and like nurturing hormones health all that like i we definitely are slightly more well we are more considerate but um peak weeks are yeah between 100 miles and 200k but there's only so much your body can you know handle and i think my longest runs would never be longer than six hours um you're saying that like uh six hours is uh well when you're running 300 miles that you know but um so how far would that be in one go it depends when i did my track running i did a six six hour track run and I think I covered like I think about 70k 75k but um if I'm doing it's not so much depends 60k 65k depends on what pace I'm going um but it's training like it is full-on but I think also I do full-time run coaching alongside my running and I'm trying to grow more of the kind of community collective side that I do work so it's managing it around all that as well but um they're the kind of peak weeks what's uh so so that's kind of like your volume what's the typical week looking like are you are you still doing speed work are you still training like a say a marathoner where they would do two hard days a week or is it more just about getting the time on feet long runs are always easy um maybe there's sometimes a marathon session but like rarely it's usually the long run is easy might be it might be progressive so just like working hard at the end but generally it's a long run easy long run but then i do two sessions a week still um which i really look forward to it's nice to kind of keep those sessions in what are they looking like them sessions they're longer they'll be always longer efforts they're never short reps so they'll be like the shortest probably would be 10 minutes um and then they're between like they'll probably about 15 25 minute marathon pace effort sessions when you do like two or three of them yeah in a session so you might be out for two hours with your open cool down yeah exactly yeah um which are fun because like they go super quickly as well it's not like particularly again all relative but obviously your marathon pace is something that you can hold for a reasonable amount within reasonable amount of time it's not like a 10k effort or 5k effort so they usually are like relatively comfortable enjoyable sessions um which i like because all relative but i'm not the speediest i'm not like i don't like i'm not the speediest of runners i prefer um slogging out for long times yeah you're just a beast which is insane let's say and we'll move on to kind of like mindset in a minute but um what strength work are you doing and do you think that plays a massive role when you're you're doing these ultra endurance events do you need to be strong definitely i think i do two strength sessions a week um strength i don't particularly enjoy like it's very much a tip box like i know it's important but I don't enjoy it like it's I do it because I need to do it rather than I do it because I enjoy it um I'd say the biggest learning that I've learned is like my nutrition and just eating enough and fueling like last year I um was working with different nutritionist to who I work with now and I was eating like super clean I lost quite a lot of weight and I got quite injured towards the end of the last year and this year i i literally love food um talking through like a typical day of eating when you've got a high training volume um so um oh it depends say i was running like a three-hour day i'd wake up i'd have at least two pieces of toast banana with jam butter on my toast then i'd go out for say three hours i try and aim for at least 90 grams of carbs during a run so throughout the three hours 90 grams of carbs no power sorry per hour yeah yeah um so i'd do that i'd come back i usually have like a yogurt bowl with fruit berries and like granola then i'd have lunch which would be eggs avocado toast usually and then i'd always have something sweet after that like a banana some banana bread or like something like that and then you have an afternoon snack of hummus pita carrot sticks something like that and then before dinner i'd have probably have another snack maybe some like nachos or some salsa or something and then i'd have dinner which would be like pasta or something and then i'd have chocolate pudding love it so super carb heavy uh but like seeing food as fuel rather than like yeah focusing on aesthetics whatever like you're training for performance yeah and then like how you look is just a byproduct of that yeah essentially yeah and you feel like you said you you're more resilient you're not getting injured as much uh you're feeling like happier within yourself by kind of like allowing yourself to eat the things that you want to eat definitely i think it's hard i think like i think one's relationship with food people obviously do have their complexities i've had mine in the past with kind of finding the right balance at all but I think like I have the best relationship with food I've ever had and I think it's purely because I have seen the poor like the benefits to when I have fueled well and when I am fuel I'm definitely I'm heavier heavier or relative than I have been for a long time but I'm also you know I had a great result to well a result I'm proud of two and a bit months ago and I thought i'm standing on a start line to run 100 miles yes i'm not gonna race and have my best performance i've ever had because it's only two a bit months away since i ran 300 miles but the fact that i'm strong enough to even stand on the start line again like i guess shows something so yeah what do you think makes you different uh i don't think i don't think there's i don't think anything makes me different I think there's I think there's a lot of I think oh god that's a very difficult question um what I think makes me different I don't think I think everyone has has I think everyone has it in them but it's how you want to apply it I think I talk about my sister a lot who is she's a great runner but she works in finance and she's incredibly intelligent incredibly work-driven and incredibly successful a very big inspiration to me and she applies her motivation determination to that that is her thing exercise is a massive part of her life and a big way of her keeping healthy and living a healthy lifestyle but her sort of drive goes towards that so i think it's just where we all apply our determination yeah that's incredible um what about the the the dog in you the the dog in me maybe not the best way of asking that question but like what what makes you push deeper and harder than anyone else like i say how much of it is mental and like how do you like build that mental resilience uh i think a huge amount of it is mental I think 80 90 of it is mental like I think I actually watched we did a video of my 24-hour run last year and I watched it um yesterday and I honestly didn't even recognize myself as that but that that person in that race back in April I don't even recognize myself like it was a really hard watch and I was like I was so uncomposed I was so stressed I was so all over the place like I was so scatty and I think that was wasn't me as a runner I think I don't know I think there's I mean there's some incredible athletes out there I'm far from the best but I think like it's just showing up isn't it and like I have my doubts and like I definitely question like I say to my coach the whole time I'm like oh that person's doing this training or that training or you know it's easy to compare but i think you just it's just trying to channel that like showing up and just keeping going and i think also just like not putting your worth on your performance and just going through those motions has really helped um for me anyway this year how much do you rely on like the others around you like are there points say in the speed projects where you wanted to give up no not on this b project there was not a single moment no no that's insane so 300 miles running 300 miles and there was not a single point where you you had a low that was like big enough to like oh like i just want to give up no not on this one i think i wanted that i needed that race so much to just redeem myself and show my like redeem myself for me and just to remind myself that like how much I love it and like I'd love to get back to that race and put the most things that we went wrong not went wrong but improve on other things and like go faster and see where I could go if I kind of nailed those other elements but yeah no I loved I like it was hard it was really hard but there wasn't a moment I wanted to give up and there wasn't a moment I wanted to give up in three peaks but in 24 hour running there was a lot of moments I wanted to give up and that's why i did give up um but no what what was the difference on them days then like is it do you think it is just the pressure what you put on yourself completely yeah and with you like if you have no pressure you just perform better yeah i completely i but i've always had that like i've always been i think i'm so competitive so i think i've like i remember when i was younger okay i didn't run but i did okay i guess i did but i did cross country but just like for fun I think that's cool I remember being stood on the start line we had those um so when you didn't really I guess why would we know much about fueling we were younger but it wasn't such a thing fueling then but I had those Dextrose energy tablets and I remember stood and sat across country in my like old spikes and my Dextrose energy tablets and I'd have one and honestly I'd like almost wet myself I'd be so nervous and I was like 10 11 so I think i just like i'm so competitive that i've just i put a lot of pressure on myself but i mean this year i feel that i feel very differently towards it all but um yeah like i was the 24 hour stuff i just put a lot of pressure on it and that's why i didn't enjoy it no that's uh yeah it makes sense really like when you speak to a lot of athletes and you do like you study like all everyone's best events and best performances are when there hasn't been that much pressure yeah completely when they're actually just like enjoying it completely but I think it's um it's funny as well like I was actually talking to my sports like about this and when I like have played team sport before like you play team sport and either you win or you lose like it's you know there's two teams that come together you win or you lose yes if you lose you have takeaways from it and you know team spirit will still be high but generally like the morale is a little bit lower because you've lost and the team that's won they've won and they've got things to take away from it but they've ultimately one and with running or I guess you have high rocks well with definitely high rocks you get first second third fourth 100th 200th how many people are in the race and it's reframing and realizing I guess you can do pairs and high rocks so you've kind of got your partner to carry you or not carry you um but it's reframing it to realizing that it's an individual sport in some senses in the terms of place placing rather than a 1v1 and like like transferring your mindset into that and then you know thinking of your a b c outcome and your a outcome should be i guess you know to have enjoyed like your primary goal should be to enjoy it um but i think i've just had my previous team sport mindset of win or lose um so yeah no it's it is really interesting like when you go into it like there's so many things that you could go into a race thinking like say just having the simplicity of having them a b and c goals first one being enjoy it yeah i'd never even think about that i thought you was going to say win i know that used to be like and you know and it still is it like yeah so like you've got but then even like getting a pb yeah it sounds weird but you can't control who you're racing against they might be in the form of the life and you might just not be on your day.

45:43So it's kind of, but you might still get a PB or whatever. I think to be saying that last year as well, the 24-hour stuff, it was the first year I've ever had sponsors. So that, I mean, completely changed it. How's the world changed since you've become a little bit more well-known in the space? Like you say, you've brought sponsors' attention. It's completely changed, to be honest. it's again this year I'm feeling a lot happier about it all but um it's completely changed I think like my proudest moments of like seven marathons and seven days of juggle was that like I was a personal trainer and I funded those goals and ambitions purely through my own work my own earning and I managed training around that and I loved that like I loved that was one of the I guess that was the part of the challenge like to make sure like if I financially do it there's they're expensive challenges but I worked extra hours and I you know I made it work and that was something I was very proud of achieving and I'm very grateful to be in a position to even have sponsors but I think as soon as you have in your contract like oh you know you need to achieve x or your contract is so you can achieve x it's like completely flipped this narrative um this yeah I've realized that you know it's all it is your sponsors will like you for the ups and downs that sports bring and if they don't then they're not worth it basically it's nice that the sponsors are a little bit more understanding to that and at the end of the day like being someone like yourself like if you don't have a good race that's actually probably more relatable to the people if i pull out everyone's like i get so much more love yeah it sounds weird but uh yeah yeah but like people like are more relatable and they they look up to you even more like yeah because they you may not be you you're human yeah and that's what that's what people want and uh i think brands are starting to realize that now which is is nice and i think they support people not just for the the podiums but for what other things they bring to the table which which is really nice when um when running like 200 mile week oh sorry 100 mile weeks back to back like what does recovery look like a lot i love sleep yeah i sleep a lot um which is mad because like when you're actually doing your events you don't sleep yeah yeah how do you even like train that as well so i've done quite i do i do sometimes do night running for training so um like running through the night just in order to stimulate the race um but that would mean i start running at like 11 o 'clock at night and if i did a four or five hour run i'd finish at four or five a.m depending how long i'm going for um would you do that on your own like when training uh no usually my dad's done a few of the cycles next to me oh nice or my boyfriend tom's done a couple next to me as well um yeah i wouldn't do it by myself particularly i remember i did a training when actually on my birthday last year I was in Portugal and I thought so the training ones previously they're usually obviously no one's out at night I do them in I've done quite a few in Yorkshire me my dad just on the country where it lanes head torches on doing our thing but we did one in Portugal last year and it was my birthday it was a day in August and I remember going it was like we think we started at midnight this one I remember running along it was really quiet and then we got to a town and it was like everyone was obviously out clubbing and we were in this like city town and the algarve and i was like this is not how i planned to simulate my run running past the nightclub everyone's awake as well it's like the whole point is that i'm supposed to be like by myself like in the zone um so that was quite funny that wasn't um the kind of one i expected to have but yeah usually there's kind of me and someone with me and the dark night and all head torches and do you ever listen to music or do you just chat i don't really listen to music um I usually pick like a song of my rate like for a race um so um speed project was not it was not giving in for when I ran the link for the UK it was proud like what have I done today have a small it's a really good song um and then what was um three piece oh unstoppable that was that one so I usually pick like a song and if I'm in a dark moment like I put that song on and like lock in for a bit but generally if i'm tired music annoys me like i like to just have nothing there and just like lock in yeah just crack on yeah exactly but when it like comes to recovery like every day are you sleeping yeah sleep i like to get like eight nine ten hours if i can um ten hours would be a really good night's sleep um but eight hours are like minimum do you kind of like track it or anything uh yeah on my both my my amaze fit or my aura ring I wear both of them I'm not like super strict on data I do go off a lot how I feel um but I do like to have the data there just to kind of check on it um if I need a nap depending on kind of like my cycle during the month then I will have a nap in the afternoon um but yeah sleep is like sleep and food are like I mean obviously you know better than anyone but like they're just like second to none my favorite things no it's good that they are is there anything else do you like to do cold baths do you no i keep it really basic i keep it really simple um if i'm doing a race and i need to do a heat training block i'll do a hate training block before and that's not recovery but i'll do a heat training block in terms of um doing sauna um and do sauna progression um usually after a run um and then yeah sleep eat obviously i stretch as much as i can i don't really enjoy stretching but i do stretch um but yeah no i keep it and i have a physio weekly massage all right okay um and then i see a physio if i need to see my physio but i have weekly massage um but i keep it super simple i think um like people over complicate it like i think and i think that also is kind of what scares people to even get started with running or whatever sometimes because you think you need all these other elements that are pricey and I think if you can nail the basics as you get into running or into exercise in general like I know appreciate it's difficult particularly when you have a busy life and a full-time job and work and kids or whatever you might have but I think if you can try and even nail one of the basics you can't nail your sleep try and nail nutrition if you can nail if you can nail sleep but not nutrition like i think if you can try and nail the basics then that's like the best way to get started even just for your general person wanting to get into it yeah the free the free things are the most valuable definitely yeah and um let's say i the one thing i love about running is the fact that you only need a pair of shoes yeah yeah i love it in your case literally just a pair of shoes but um yeah no it's really cool um so you've got this 100 mile race on saturday you said that you're just going to go out there enjoy it are you going into it kind of pain free feeling good uh so so yeah um i definitely don't feel fresh um so my question is like why if you don't feel fresh is it kind of literally just for enjoyment or is it because i'm in i'm loving running at the moment um this was supposedly my a race of the year it's called the south downs way 100 miler which is a centurion race and it's a western states qualifier western states is a big race in the us which is happening in a couple of weeks um one of the kind of renowned most renowned races in the kind of um ultra running trail running history books um and it was a big goal of mine to race this race show up like fresh and how it's my a goal um this b project opportunity came around and i know it sounds crazy but running 350 miles excites me far more than running 100 miles so um I kind of switched my goals around and did this project um and had a place for this still and was in two minds about whether to do it quite literally until like last week um and I'm really I'm just really enjoying running and I think um I used to stand on a start line and think if I didn't win and it was a failure of a race and I just want to go it's a really competitive start line there's some amazing athletes and even just being able to be with them and chat to them and just have a good day out in the South Downs is, like, just my goal.

54:27So, yeah, that's why I'm doing it. So the plan's just to enjoy it. Are you going to try and keep with that front pack for as long as possible? I have, like, relative time goals. But, yeah, I mean, I honestly have no idea. I might turn up and, like, feel amazing and have a really good race or I might have a really bad race. um but I'm just looking forward to yeah the the um record is I think just over 16 hours for this one um but I'd be happy with like 18 17 18 hours um on a good day um particularly after this if not 20 hours I don't know I honestly don't know but it's funny because like the competitive side of me usually would be like like so like frothing at the bit to do really well but I think I'm just really satisfied and happy with how my year's already gone but it's just gonna be a bonus if i do do well that's amazing and then have you got any other plans for the rest of the year or looking forward um yeah i have a race at the end of the year i'd like to do um i've got unfinished business with um what i started last year so um i'd like to do that and then yeah that'll be the end of the year though take a bit of time off after saturday tomorrow and tomorrow is saturday two days time gosh um i'm gonna spend some time in chamonix in the summer um do you tend to kind of take big chunks of like downtime like per year like will you and what does it look like say for example you do this race at the weekend are you then not running for a while uh i will not run for a couple of weeks yeah if i can so completely off yeah hopefully um after speed project i wasn't able to run for like two weeks i was in a wheelchair for like three days after wheelchair wow i mean but i kind of partially built it because we were in vegas and i wanted to explore vegas um so you're going to all the casinos in a wheelchair also vegas is really wheelchair friendly really wheelchair friendly um so yeah i couldn't i couldn't really walk to balance i was so swollen and quite a lot of pain um the hot sweats were sweating it's a big thing i don't know if you've ever got it after big races but like the hot sweats when you finish a race and you wake up in the morning and your bed is like wet and sweat um I had that for about yeah about two weeks um so yeah I didn't run for two weeks which is actually the biggest amount of time I've had off for a very long time after the project um and I would like to take about two weeks off after this race as well I wouldn't need to take that much time off but I just think after the year I've had a need to do that and then I'm gonna get a bit more cross training I purely just run and strength train in the moment um I'd like to do a bit more cycling just to mix things up but other than that just easy running for a couple of weeks after and then back into it have you got any goals further down the line like any kind of like bucket list things um there's a race called cocodona um which is a 250 mile race in arizona and actually a bit of a funny story so um if listen to this um i so the um race director i emailed him last year being like um hey i um would love to do um coco donor this year and he basically applied saying i didn't have enough experience so i emailed him the other week being like hey i've now done a speed project can i get a place anyway he sent me an email basically quite an aggie email being like um we're just sorting things out because i think obviously there's been so much interest this year um rachel and she can break the record last this year sorry for it so it's been like the race yeah she'd be everyone right overall that's that's incredible incredible so the race is like booming but um I have like this like burning desire just to now like really show up at Cocodona partially because like the race director I'm sure he's a lovely guy but he said no to me like once now and then has been a bit kind of hesitant about this start line um and I feel like that Cocodona would really suit me like it's long it's well it's very long it's um yeah it'd be right up the tee so I'd love to do that one and then I'd actually love to go back and run the length for the UK again and do it a little bit faster than I did last time oh interesting what would your the goal be there I'd love to break the record the female what is a female record uh it is oh I can't remember the specific I think it's 11 days 11 days so you'd literally do it in half the time yeah but you did it last time um but I'd love to go back I think I'd be a very different athlete if I did it again um so it'd be a bit of a moment for myself how would you tackle that would you kind of try and split it up evenly and run i think i'd probably like top end it so i'd run further the start and then yeah like naturally deplete so how many k's a day it'd be a lot you'd be doing like 100 miles 100 miles so 100 160k a day yeah wow but i'd love to go back i think it's just one of those things that um i love like i've done a lot of road running as well while i prefer the trails i have done a lot of road running so um we'll see and then in a couple of years but um yeah they're two races well one race and one challenge i'd love to do again yeah interesting and then this is a pretty out there question but if you there was no money that like like money wasn't an issue like everything was funded is there anything that you'd like to do like is there any kind of challenge that you'd like to make up have you ever thought about that it's good if money wasn't an issue gosh um

1:00:00oh gosh i don't know i don't know i'd have to think about that okay i'd love to go um i think i'd love to do something like really i don't know i actually don't know it's funny because i have like there's like two minds winner it comes i don't know i don't know future thoughts yeah have you um what's the female record for the transcon by the way you know uh running across america would you ever i must say i've really been drawn to america like i really liked america i loved america i'd love to do some there's some huge races in america the competitive races that i'd love to do um yeah western states hard rock um would you ever do moab yeah i'd love to do moab um could do that yeah next year i'd love to do either um yeah kagodona potentially moab one of those um but we'll see yeah incredible no no i thought yeah you'd throw me off there yeah and obviously at the moment like you're so young within the ultra running space like you're 26 at the moment like where do you see yourself going with this like who do you want to be in like five to ten years time within the space um I'd love to be well I'd love to keep showing up I'd love to win some big races and hopefully break some more records but I think I'd also love just to be like a face in the sport but like a responsible face in the sport like I appreciate what I've done isn't always responsible but um I'd love just to like I love I really love going to schools and doing tours a big thing of what I do and I think I didn't go to uni and I very much kind of like always like just kind of followed a passion and done that and I think it's a really strong I feel very passionate about it and I think just being a face in the sport is something I feel very passionate about and getting more people into trail running showing more people like that you can just go for it and give it a go and if you fail yeah sometimes it feels shit and relationships and running go up and down but I think I'd love just to continue or to be a face in the sport and make an impact and yeah I think that side of things performance aside just kind of be a responsible hopefully um influential how would you be responsible within the ultra running world because uh i say it's not the most healthy of sports like let's be honest like going running 300 miles isn't great for your body like you said you had the hot sweats for you was in a wheelchair for three days you had the hot sweats for two weeks like you know people would say like yeah because it's like self-inflicted as well like obviously it's incredible achievement but it is pretty stupid as well like we can like it just is kind of what ultra running is it's crazy um yeah i think taking the recovery seriously and the things that i did mention like nailing the basics of nutrition sleeping hormones are a big thing i monitor like um like i make sure i have my period if i don't have my period then i do tailor back training and make sure that you know there's so many other things that you can monitor your personality whether you're feeling a bit aggy whether you're feeling happy like my natural personality is that I'm relatively bubbly I'm a very happy person I'm a smiley person if I feel that I'm not wanting to see my friends and I'm feeling a bit aggy and grumpy that's a sign that I'm over training um yeah if I have my period then it'd be a sign that I'm over training um and then you'll literally scale back training yeah and and you don't have a problem with that no I think I used to I used to be like I'm not progressing but you're progressing more if you're listening to your body um so I think while I do do these crazy challenges and push my body to the limits in that sense like I want to have longevity in the sport like I'm you know ultra runners prime in their late 30s 40s 50s and I want to be able to you know I'm 26 hopefully in 25 years time I'll still be doing this and still hopefully breaking records and achieving bigger things than I've ever thought I could achieve and in order to do that you need to be responsible so I think that is what I want to keep um sharing the message about that's really cool and I'm just intrigued like you say you go into schools you do talks and stuff what what do you share like what are your kind of like three things that you like share to people that are looking up to you um I want to believe in yourself which I know it's like a really cliche like cringy thing to say but I think not enough people do it and as soon as you start doubting yourself it's when like you don't then do well I think and also in like in whatever it is like I referred to my sister earlier like even if it's in academics if I'm like just believe in yourself I find I way before going into school I do a few corporates people as well but I find that difficult to relate to them because I'm like a load of like you know people that older me men female female it's not as easy to get a message across whereas if I'm younger I'm like I can make more of an impact in how they're going to progress their life whereas the other people like kind of already set a stone in what they're doing with their life um so yeah believe in yourself like kind of be your own person just like embrace being you um which I think in a world full of when social media is a big thing it's harder to be you because you you know you're following trends you're being influenced by whatever you're seeing online um and i kind of just yeah i guess it's just believing yourself do you like that's kind of the main the main things kind of just yeah it's incredible and it's fun doing it to like little people and showing them yeah it's cool because they'll remember that forever hopefully and i remember this is a bit of a side note but when i used to play netball um we used to train at the english institute of sport in Sheffield and Jess Karenis used to train at the English Institute of Sport and we'd do six hour sessions on a Sunday and we'd do three hours then we'd have a bit of lunch and then we'd finish the sessions for the day and in that bit of time we were having lunch we'd sit in the stands in the indoor athletics track and watch Jess Karenis train and for me that is like such an impactful moment of seeing her train seeing the commitment the dedication and just like I remember she'd like walk over and we'd be like can you have a signature and we'd always ask for photos like even if we'd seen her you know week in week out and I think even if I can do that with like a couple of people and just like have a moment that they're like oh I remember when my body came and she showed me doing her running the length for the UK or whether like if I can share a little thing like that even just a couple of people there's like what Jessica Renner said to me well she's a completely different scale athlete to me like you know like in some different capacity I'd love to be able to do that so yeah that's kind of it that's cool what uh do you have any hobbies outside of running yeah um yeah I do I have I like I love having my like running friends and then my normal friends I call my normal friends the ones that don't run um so I guess my hobbies outside of running are just like hanging out with my normal friends um I like I do really enjoy a drink I like I'm not sober I like while I'm racing I won't drink before big races and stuff but I do really enjoy a drink so if it drinks with friends um if it's winter I really like skiing I love just being outdoors generally um but yeah hanging out with like my normal friends I guess is like a big hobby of mine that's a hobby um I like having I like having them I like not talking about running and I like like switching off from the running personality and just being like the giggly like kind of laid-back personality because they were very different personalities um and how is your partner because he seems like amazing like you say he's supported you throughout everything that you've been doing um yeah how what's the relationship like he's good he's so funny the other day he was like our life is ruled around running i hate it um no he is good he's very relaxed he yeah puts up with a lot he has seen a lot um a hell of a lot um probably a lot of things that a boyfriend shouldn't see um i'll never forget last year at my 24-hour track race tmi again but i'm being pretty open i pooed myself around the track and he had to sort it out oh so he has seen it all just like a toddler he has seen it all yeah um no he's amazing he also um when i had my first trailed cat nap he very much just sat there i was like do not move i was like if a snake comes near me i will like lose it so he just sat there with his head torch and like the silence while i had my cat nap um yeah he's seen it all he's very supportive um he's also a photographer which is very handy for um races and social media stuff um but yeah he puts up with a lot and our life is very much ruled around running that's incredible um do you feel like you've got any bad habits um i would say i am probably quite selfish but i also think you kind of have to be selfish to do to achieve things which rightly or wrongly is the way it is um i probably could give a little bit more but i have really big goals with my running so it's yeah if that's the case like how do you maintain friendships relationships with the people that you love whilst also being selfish like how do you manage that it's quite difficult and I actually had a I went to my coach lives in Italy and I went to Italy in February I think it was March this year for a training camp with Robbie and the big goal was to have like a week or five days of big training it was supposed to be a week of training and then one of my sponsors amaze fit um we're doing an event in majorca so the trip got now then shortened to five days initially and two days in majorca so at that point robbie was already like okay we've now cancelled down the trip to five days in italy two days in majorca we'll have to the fifth day initially we'll have to like manage because you're traveling that day so you'll be in majorca so we won't do such a big day then you're majorca so you won't be training so then that was like three days of training or four days of training three days of that week being kind of messed up um and then I actually got to Italy and I was really ill so I did I think I went for a run that afternoon and then I had to spend the whole day wrestling the following day and then I think I came out that next day and I think we did like a four hour run and I found the whole run really hard I had a bit of breakdown on the run and I was like I was there with another athlete and I was like he's finding me so easy I'm usually fitter than him I'm usually faster than him had a bit of a moment and I think it was that point Robbie was like well your training's going great but it's your external life which I obviously mentioned that I do take really seriously but it is really hard to manage everything and I think like I also have my friends I do have a boyfriend I have family I also work run coaching full-time and then do like other bits on the side and it is it is really hard to like so I try to be I am selfish but then I try to not be less to be less selfish and then it you know that fires and a hard thing to balance then you get ill um so Robbie's kind of he's he's like why don't you do a thing that if you want to see a friend unfortunately you like you run to either you run to I sometimes I quite often will run to see a friend so like if it's a if I meet them on a weekend and I've got a long run I'll say let's go for brunch and I'll run to brunch and I'll do a couple of hours or have many hours and get up early before brunch so I try and fit it in like that or if I'm going for dinner usually I like to go to a friend's house for dinner if I'm in a training block or they come to me rather than like eating out so I'll be like I'll run to you for to eat um but it is hard to manage it all um and I think I am lucky that Tom is very who's my partner boyfriend who's my understanding about it because I think otherwise yeah but it's hard and yeah I've definitely haven't got the balance with it and Robbie says it continuously he's like um the lifestyle needs to change but yeah just think that's the way that you you improve is by getting that balance right or do you think there's other things that you could kind of optimize within your life uh I think the balance the lifestyle is definitely sort of a holding back factor but then it's also like I also I absolutely love running it's my life my career my vision my passion but also life is too short like I don't know like I'd hate to look back and be like oh I missed out on that because of running and I would never want that so it's just finding the balance of it all um and sometimes you do have to say no and then sometimes you have to say no to running and for example cocoa donors next year is around the time of my sister's wedding I'm not going to miss my sister's wedding if I do cocoa donor but that you know it's finding that balance about um yeah but it is hard oh interesting interesting um thank you for today i really appreciate it thank you for coming on and best of luck with your race thank you on saturday i'm sure you'll absolutely smash it and then best of luck with uh redemption shall we set call it let's call it redemption um later later in the year but um i'm sure like you say you've got great things coming your way you've done some super inspiring things you've inspired me i think you've inspired a hell of a lot of people out there and uh i'm just excited to see what you can do in the future inspired not scared even so i think uh it's a bit of both but yeah no it's insane what you do and uh yeah just really appreciate it thank you