Jake Williamson - #011

0:00Jake Williamson, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm very honored. I appreciate it. We've been training all day. We did. I know. I know. It's the end of the day. Well, it's at quarter past seven. We've been training this morning. We did a high rock sim. Then we did a track session this afternoon. It's been a full on day, but I can definitely tell that you've been training. You're definitely fit. I just wanted to start with you introducing yourself, what you kind of do. Obviously, our audience, a lot of them are High Rocks, a lot of them are runners, and I think you're credible in both of those spaces.

0:43Yeah, I never actually know, I've introduced myself many times on podcasts, but I never know where to start. I'm Jake Williamson. i god high rocks elite 15 doubles uh probably best known for my race with hunter and phoenix as of late i feel like there was a bit of a shift i went to istanbul and there was a lot more people asking for photos so i think i had the the honor of winning a race in in the elites which was pretty cool um prior to that proud gay athlete um that's kind of where my profile started and And then obviously came High Rocks and it kind of created a bit of an X marks a spot moment and then grew from there, really.

1:25Running background, football background or soccer for American audience. And not like not bad either, but not world class or amazing either. Like just good, good football. Loved it. Played first team at uni, Coventry. and then running I did since I was a kid and it was like a probably an outlet like looking back like just a like pent-up energy aggression of like suppressing the sexuality side of things more than anything but my I wasn't like academically crazy bright so I just like was basically told look most people like not everyone's good at maths or English or whatever like some people are just born to be athletes or to run and i just kind of took that and ran with it literally no i love that you uh you said that you was just good at running but uh you've got some decent times um i think for i think you're one of the fastest if not the fastest within high rocks definitely what's your over short i would say anything over a k i'll probably lose but so go on just take off a couple of 400 800 450 flat 800 154 15 needs work but i've only actually done one of them so that was a 404 but i think i mean i can't say i think because i haven't done it but i work i reckon at least sub four mile 423 this year and this is all impressive but how much do weigh 90 90 kilograms 198 pounds so you are shifting some serious pounds but annoyingly i don't look it which everyone's like no you don't like the biggest thing i get on socials and you get it a lot in terms of like weight and stuff everyone's like nah you don't you don't weigh that i'm like i literally stand on the scales next to hunter in his house he's like two pounds more than me and then we stand up next to each other and he looks absolutely massive when uh when people meet you in real life do they say oh you're taller than what you look like on socials taller yeah but how tall are you six one six two yeah so yeah but i don't i feel like i should look bigger than i but yeah definitely i definitely used to be a skinnier runner um but all of those kind of times were in the last three years which is pretty cool but when i say i wasn't good i mean i was good as a kid but I was never like the top in terms of anything but the biggest thing that that I've done is just I never stopped like I just kept running and playing football and things when everyone else went out and partied and did whatever else it was and do you think that's what's got you to the level that you're at today um whether it is just you know like you say working hard over having like a natural talent obviously I feel like everyone to be an elite high rocks athlete you've got to natural talent yeah anyone at the top has to have an element of genetics or or whatever like pure just gift i don't think i'm gifted personally like i look at my just like i say natural strength like grip strength or like a to b strength just moving objects and i'm not anything special um but I've just spent years and years and years putting in work, whether it's, it wasn't necessarily to be, obviously, it wasn't, High Rocks wasn't really a thing for any of us five, six years ago, but it was an opportunity for me to just be, I don't know, express something in a form of, I guess, talent.

5:05And I wasn't necessarily doing it to impress anyone else because I didn't have a social media, well, I had social media, but just for friends and family and then as you know it's like a not necessarily an overnight sensation but a period of kind of like okay now my life is gone from just working in a gym or doing whatever I was doing to now basically full-time athlete influencer creator which all kind of merges into one because Hyrox doesn't pay necessarily the bills so we have to create content and and we like doing it like don't get me wrong it's something that we we love to do we love to storytell we love to engage with people in the audience and we all have different stories to tell but it's definitely uh yeah an interesting shift from being someone who just did it behind closed doors to now basically everyone knowing everything about your whole life yeah but that is the crazy thing especially about high rocks like say it's not been around that long so anyone that's like got become well known within the harock space has had it happen to them over a very very short period of time which is pretty mad but i want to take it back to the first time i actually met you and bumped into you it was actually a competition in birmingham called fodders and i think this runs every summer yes for the strive yeah for the strive so they do a winter one sometimes but that's pretty that's for the the hardcore yeah but yeah it was a beautiful day in birmingham and uh it was on this gym that was kind of like a farm kind of literally in the middle of yeah in the middle of nowhere on a farm and it was the craziest kind of gym layout ever they had an indoor gym they also had an outdoor gym like in some stables yeah there's like three different gym spaces within the gym and then you've got a big loop of the whole gym space and then another 1k loop um out of it so anyone who's in the uk higher space in particular probably knows or has heard of forwarders in some capacity for sure it's kind of probably the hardcore training mecca for hybrid fitness i'd probably say where people train there's 40 to 50 people if not more training every day out in the cold um all year round all year round that's yeah yeah I'm a fair weather.

7:29I'm fair weather. I'm off. But Jay, you stood out to me. And this was before I'd even had a conversation with you. I think one of the workouts, it was teams of four. And you basically, one of the workouts was 200 meter sprints. So it was a relay race. You did 200 meters. Then you passed the baton to your teammate. And then you all did two lots of 200 meters. And I remember seeing you. First of all, you set off. in the first group and you came back before everyone else almost to the point you were so far ahead and it was only 200 meters like literally granted it was up a hill so it probably would take a little bit longer but you came back and you were so far in front of everyone else i was like is this guy like for real or is he like cheating or has he gone the wrong way or what uh and it turns out no you're just that fast and I think obviously a combination of uh your size and strength as well allowed you to to kind of explode up the hills and down the hills but like you won every single workout I think that you've entered that day yeah that was pretty mad you made me blush um no that was a that was the first time I'd entered like the hybrid fitness space for sure and that was literally a conversation that I say to a lot of people was the first time I met Hunter as well and I literally had a 15 minute conversation with him and we had that conversation and I he basically said at the end of it was like quit like quit your job go all in this is like not made for you but after the conversation that we had my social media was growing through the sports space but also like the the gay world that that I've discussed already but he uh he said quit go all in and I went into work the next day and I quit my job and I had you spoken to Hunter before this or you just met him all the day?

9:21I knew who he was because I'd obviously been in, I think I must have done a few High Rocks races by then. But I remember being in Barcelona when he raced and broke the world record. And that was my first ever High Rocks race. So I must have known who he was. No way. Was you watching him live? I think I was in like the wave after. So he was running as I was running because I went straight into men's pro. Because I was actually there at that time. So we wouldn't have actually known each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah. but I was there watching Hunter and I remember him breaking that world record so I would have been watching you as well I didn't get to watch him but I obviously saw him warming up and Faisal was there and this is like so early doors I was like this is pretty cool like I can see that this is like a thing but it wasn't there was no sponsors there was no like there was nothing really in it it was just doing it for the sake of competing and I guess winning and yeah so I that was the first time I knew of kind of who Hunter was I think I must have seen him on like Broken Skull Ranch and things because I remember watching that as a kid um but not really putting the two and two together and then I quit my job the next day and then I text Hunter and I said what like what now and he was like what you doing next week and I was like nothing um and he was like why don't you come out to LA and train and I was like okay so I literally booked a flight out to LA didn't know him like said to Paul my partner I was like I'm going to LA to do this like training camp with this guy um and there was a few other people there but that was like that was my exposure to like what this life could be and from then on I was like this is this is it and that was just over three years ago that's insane so in the time span of three years obviously you quit your job going full time to what you've become now let's say you've just won your elite 15 doubles major and you're looking to try and win world champs this year uh that's incredible and in the time you've you know made appearances within the elite 15 singles as well like you've been in and around the elite 15 now for what 18 months two years two years two years which is crazy so you You know, like you say, starting and going full time three years ago.

11:42It's crazy how fast everything. Yeah, it's definitely getting harder to stay there. That's for sure. I think that we've discussed quite a lot about doubles and singles. And I've never, I've been okay at the singles. Like I've got respectable times, but I'm hoping to put things right this year and do a few good solo races along with the double side. But I am suited to the doubles. My training and things has kind of leaned towards that now. since obviously going and speaking to Andrew and being like, look, are we doing this? Are we going in? Obviously, we can touch on the partner situation, which caused a little bit of drama.

12:21But I think ultimately it was the right decision and our race in Phoenix kind of proved that. For sure. When you even spoke about, you were thinking, for anyone that doesn't know, the controversy was Jake had already qualified for the Elite 15 World Champs with another partner. And then Hunter asked him to race. And Hunter, obviously, personally, I think he's a better athlete. I think he is stronger. I think you're one of his best friends. And he asks you with confidence. So I feel like when you take into the full... you've taken every kind of like aspect of it. I think you made the right decision because, and then you went out there and absolutely crushed it.

13:12You wiped the floor. You beat everyone by like two minutes. So for me to say, do you know, I think Hunter's the better athlete out of your two partners that you race with. That's my personal opinion. And I think definitely for the doubles, Hunter is a better athlete. Like he is a power athlete. Yes. He's unbelievable at the singles, but I think he's naturally just so good. It's a freak, isn't he? There's no one like him in the sport. So at the end of the day, just from like a performance point of view, you want to win. And you see that clearly with Hunter. That's one aspect. Another aspect is you as best friends and you've been out to his house and trained with him multiple times.

14:00You've done multiple training camps out there. you know you become really close um he's someone like you say he has a tight-knit circle and you're in that yeah so it's kind of a bit of a privilege for him to it was not an easy decision like there was like sleepless I don't have much stress in my life I'm very lucky but it was a very stressful situation in terms of it wasn't my place to give up essentially like we'd earned that together yeah so it was really and i love alan like he he is one of the best blokes in high rock so to to make that decision and message him and have to say look i'm really sorry it also didn't help that it was after melbourne and which was then the christmas period so there was not many opportunities to race for him um which meant that he couldn't then get into phoenix with someone else so that kind of was another thing that made me look not great but um on the caveat he had raced with someone else in a pro race to try and like not necessarily cover his back but to to try and qualify with someone else um but their time wasn't fast enough so that that's my only defense other than that i am very sorry and i and i i did have a lot of discussions with a lot of people and at the end of the day this is my full-time job and i also want to be world champion and the best way to do that was to to race and beat with hunter so i'm i don't regret now you're the favorite like at the end of the day like you are the favorite i think just by the staggering amount of time you beat everyone else um like we raced against you me and james kelly and granted uh james had raced the night before yeah there's a few variables you had just done yeah i just done a marathon but uh we did not see you after the sled push which is crazy when you think about it the sled push is the second station and you was i've watched the race back and i'm like i don't know whether we were obviously really fast i was like why we were really slow like i felt great the whole race and i was like what is going on like why are we yeah but i think we just had a game plan we had three weeks of just insane training and just went into it and was like look if we're going to do this let's break the world record and annoyingly we didn't get it you can argue and say judges and war wars and whatever else and there was obviously a few no reps that were clearly no reps from like not hitting the target or the sensor the sensor in the elite race for example is really really sensitive so or lack of so you have to hit it with conviction where there was a few where we hit it but it was so sensitive that it didn't touch and I think Roncovich had the same in his race but at the end of the day we put down a performance that was that was pretty impressive so I'm really proud of the performance I would have liked to have had the pro doubles world record to go along with the the open doubles world record which would be cool and then I could argue that I'm the best doubles athlete but um yeah it's well I think we'll get it in in Stockholm to be fair my question to you then like you mentioned there what difference does a good doubles athlete consist of compared to like a singles athlete i think it's the the wattage like what you're able to put out like the the ski in the row i think i was looking at i watched it back and you can it tells you like how much you basically won a station by or how much time you put into the other teams or vice versa and i think the ski we were like nine seconds and the row we were like 10 15 seconds which on an erg is is crazy so that that is kind of what makes or breaks and to beat teams by a minute plus in doubles takes at that level like you're already at the top 15 so i think that's and like the sled push the pull it's all power over a really short period of time so if you can have that power like what hunter does and and what i have now it's it's great but then you also have to be able to run 310s 315s so a lot of the guys like i'll use john win as an example like he's incredible at the individual stuff but you tell him to run quicker than 330s or 320s 315s he's not going to be able to do it like he like him and Bo both 55 athletes ran together in uh where do they run katois I think like running 51 30 which is a good time but when you're two athletes running 55 and you're only four minutes quicker that's crazy like it's crazy that the difference like my solo time my best is 57 and my best doubles time well my two double two doubles times a 48 so 48 30 and 48 48 that's 11 minutes difference oh no nine minutes difference that's crazy so i i think that like power wattage output on stations and on on obviously the runs is is the biggest so i don't think what about actually like communication between you and your partner you mentioned with hunter you spent three weeks before like actually training so was you training like transitions were you training kind of communication yeah i think dialed i think also like the ability and experience to be like my partner is suffering here like we had a game plan and hunter because hunter is a better athlete he was meant to do seven and i was meant to do five burpees but because he took more of the load on the sled pull it meant he was more fatigued than he probably should have been going into the burpees so we were like okay i'll do we'll do five each so it's that adaptability I know it sounds so minor and it's like oh you're only just you're literally just saying one thing to the other person but it's able to read the room and be like okay I need to pick up a little bit more of this slack so you can recover a little bit more and it's almost just rather than even telling me I should know so I'm able to be like okay Jake's tired here let me we might be doing 300 400 300 and you might be doing the 600 meters and I'll be like okay let me do the 600 so you have more time to so those little things like it's not it's not rocket science but it does make a difference and then the transitions like as i said the race in london when me and alan qualified and charlie and ollie won there was nine seconds between first and fourth and there was only three spots so like if you take an extra two seconds on the sled push transitions again not minor not major but like over the course of 16 stations with the runs and the stations if you're taking two seconds every time it's 30 plus seconds isn't it so it is a lot like everything has to matter yeah no and i can vouch for the power that you have just training me this morning doing that simulation like you're holding like 129 130 per 500 meters on both the ski and the roll just like with ease it doesn't even look like that's the thing that not it doesn't annoy me but like with the things i like when i run everyone's like you make running look so easy i'm like i am trying like i am dying here so yeah it's maybe just smiling too much yeah yeah maybe yeah enjoying it too much practice your pain face yeah um i want to take it back to like you say the first time that that uh the summer's drive yep fodder's summer's drive uh where you met hunter you quit your job and you then went out to visit Hunter.

21:34Did you learn anything from that whole experience of like almost like go after your dreams? Was that one of the best decisions you've ever made or did you regret it? Best decision I've ever made. I think physically I realised I was nowhere near where I needed to be to be the best. But then I also realised that I deserved to be in the room. and I think that was that's a big thing like imposter syndrome is a big thing for a lot of people and it's like when you step into a room do you deserve to be there and it's that narrative of like when I first went I was like I am way out of my depth like I was a nobody essentially like I'd never really done anything in running high rocks football whatever so this was this was almost like a final chance to be like okay can I be a professional athlete within this sphere or whatever it kind of was and it wasn't really like it didn't feel like you could be a professional athlete but there was definitely kind of a what is this space like how can I how can I navigate and create and turn this into my lifestyle rather than working 45 hours on the gym floor so I think that was a big part of being like I I am here and I'm here for a reason and that's kind of the the mindset that I take into a lot of the rooms that I step into like even when I come and train with you people are like oh my god you're training with Jake Dearden I'm like yeah but like it's it's just a another another room and a another like you're a friend that I now train with and people are like oh my god so it's sometimes i'm like oh that is pretty cool but then other times it's like that's like that's normal everyday life but also like jake is training with you yeah so it's like on the on the contrary so it's yeah i think it shaped a lot of who i am and the type of athlete that i wanted to be and like the ability to be like okay i know what i need to do to get this as my lifestyle so i i basically just used hunter as like a mentor to be like what's he done and what did you what did you kind of think of because there'd be so many people like that and now in that position where you know they're sick of the job they potentially want to go full-time as the athlete they feel like they've got the talent but we can't make a living off just having a talent especially if you're quiet about it if you're like what kind of i don't know avenues did you go down like did you ask hunter for advice when it was kind of like how how do i make money out of this thing how do i make it possible i'm pretty good at asking questions like if i don't know the answer i'm gonna find a way to find out and if you don't know the answer then i'm gonna ask the next person sort of thing so i'm i'm quite inquisitive in terms of how how did you do this like how have you turned this into your life when this isn't really a thing for anyone else like yes there's professional footballers there's professional runners there's whatever else but he seemed to have this kind of lifestyle that was like more than that so the biggest thing at the end of the day is like content is king without a profile and a presence you're going to really struggle to kind of bringing revenue through brand deals um like if you want to sell programs or like the different avenues of like what you can actually do for for making money in this space so that was a big thing of like okay i'm doing that and i'm doing it really well but how can i execute and elevate what i'm doing and take it to the next level i think a lot of people think that like hanging around with hunter is going to automatically give you like 20 000 followers or things like that but it doesn't work like that like this weird content space is so strange so you have to be creating good content that's based around you like that there is a framework that you can almost follow and and be like okay this works in certain ways and this works in certain ways but you look at everyone who is sustainable at the top of the content game and they're all storytellers and they all have their own narrative and path so like look at them see what they do but you have to be authentic and and that's what essentially sells but it's hard like it's a saturated market and there's a million people that and I was one of them there's a million people that would want to be sat in this chair or at the seat of the table sort of thing so it's there is an element that is luck but there's also an element of hard work sacrifice and and just keeping keep grafting one thing that has always struck me about you though every time we've had a conversation is how knowledgeable you are in every space every space where you know you'll know the latest training methods you'll know the latest kind of brand deals you know what brands are coming through you know what kind of things to post about in terms of content and stuff you seem to be so kind of almost ahead of everyone else and that's how I'll probably describe it probably described it a little bit wrong but like yeah I feel like you're you're on it if that makes sense yeah I think and you know your worth I don't know I don't know where that comes from I think that probably as we kind of came from that experience of like how do I create this as a as a lifestyle and a career and it sounds bad but like knowing what rooms to be in and where because that's at the end of that it's who you know like what you know is great but how can you execute and and people please and be essentially be a good human like I do I do believe that if you are a good person who works hard you will be successful in whatever kind of remit that you want to be um that only goes so far and it comes from an element of also privilege so i think yeah i just i realized that there was a big opportunity within this high rock space and i think i love fitness i love sport i love like not necessarily storytelling but just brand basically brand like it's such a broad thing but brand what people are creating what they're doing how it's impacting other people's lives and how fitness can change people's lives essentially and i just encompass all of that um you kind of take it all within your step and you enjoy it all whereas i think a lot of athletes because the stereotypical athlete comes from a different type of background to us like we're like you said we're in a sport where we can't make money off just being a high-rocks athlete so we've got to do all these other things we've got to storytell we've got to whether it's youtube whether it's instagram whether it's um working with brands doing activations you know standing in front of people consulting or doing run clubs or like you say consulting or doing online coaching like you're walking the walk and then you coach people to do the same uh it's you can either hate it all or you can like take it in your stride i think you take it in your stride and you kind of like enjoy it i try not to be that i'm not that stressed or pressured by things and again that comes from an element of i am i am quite successful now within what i've done so that does help like i it allows you to be a little bit more carefree but i've always been a little bit kind of not not aloof but just a bit like oh okay like if something bad happens i'm just like okay you're always positive like yeah like i've never seen you like in a really bad mood yeah i do feel i do feel happy like i don't i just think that comes from it like i love what i do i make good money doing what i do i have a good home life good dog good partner like it's kind of all you can all you can ask for really you mentioned before and i want to touch about it like it may have not always been like that you said running was kind of like an outlet um maybe from you know not revealing your sexuality and stuff like that like how how did how did you find that like earlier on before yeah you came out i come from the world of football and just being they use the word like straight conforming so like you wouldn't know i was gay essentially um if you saw me unless you see me on certain days of the week um but no I think like it was I can look back on it now and I can I can digest it and can be like and joke about it but like genuinely the hardest thing I've ever done and I think that can also shape you as an athlete and whatever else but when you like you you know what it's like the amount of times that you're basically told that being gay is something that's bad so when you're that 16 year old kid who wants to try and fit in wants to be cool wants to play football wants to be a professional footballer um having to kind of go through that and do it all on your own for like five years so around five years it was before i knew when i was like 14 15 as soon as things became like sexual essentially like as soon as you start watching porn and discovering and people are like oh i'm going out with this girl and and then they're all talking about who they had sex with or whatever what their girlfriend is whatever and i was like hmm something doesn't feel quite right so like i i just i just knew and then you just you just suppress it and and like complete denial so that's in this period like when you were suppressing it was you still like seeing like how far was you going with the extent of like keeping up this image was you like seeing girls and stuff i was i was it's so in denial that i was like okay you can almost like you can just like get over it essentially or like maybe this is what everyone feels there's so many different thoughts you're like oh this is what everyone feels like this is like just how it's supposed to feel essentially and because i was like always attracted to older guys i never had anyone in my year group that was like i was attracted to so i was like okay like this is just like yeah you're kind of almost like asexual almost so i was like okay i'll just do what everyone else does and it's like sleep with girls and and then you can go back and tell stories and it becomes like a a thing um but I always knew and then I had girlfriends and then I was like yeah this just I tried and tried and it wasn't from a it wasn't from like a oh I I'm like I felt you feel bad essentially because you know that you're not like in love with this person but you're just trying so hard to be like this is this is what's normal like do this so yeah that's something that eats away at you and causes a lot of I was never depressed but there was definitely elements of like why why is this happening to me sort of thing when like you're basically told that like this is a terrible thing so that did anyone in this time period like suspect it or anything not really because like i played football had girlfriends like even throughout uni was kind of like seeing girls so it was just more internal and suppressed denial that i would just i wouldn't even i couldn't even tell my best friends like i've lived i live with charlie who who does all my management stuff now for three years at uni like we're best friends didn't have the courage to even have a conversation to be like oh i might like so yeah you can imagine how much that kind of eats up at you and becomes a thing and then when I stopped playing football COVID happened um and that's when I was online and was on tinder and swiping and that's when I matched Paul my partner now so we had like a six-month period where it's like it wasn't wasn't really sexual at all it was just like I need help like I'm like I'm fucked basically uh so it was a period of he works in cricket like works in sport and i was like oh my god like someone who's in sport essentially a role model and understands it yeah like gets what i've been through so it was almost like it sounds bad but it was almost like a form of therapy and then and then we basically just like fell in love and it was it was like oh my god so i remember we met up for like one of the first times and i literally just held his hand and it sounds so stupid but i was like fucking hell like that's crazy like compared to any any form of like interaction i had with a girl and all i'd done was hold his hand i was like oh shit i need to start telling people now but you actually like really felt something yeah like it was ridiculous but you can never felt anything like that you've had sex with other girls never felt anything nothing it was it was it sounds so like ridiculous to say but it was like it was crazy and i was like oh like i'm in a i'm in trouble with it And I was like, this is bad.

34:42So then that was like a long year and a half window of like, that was the hardest part was actually - Did you keep any of that like secretive? Like when you first started meeting - Oh yeah, it was so bad. So Paul lived in Birmingham and I lived with my parents because it was COVID back in just North of London. And I didn't have my own car and I shared my mom's car. And obviously you only have a certain amount of miles like on your insurance or whatever a year. And I kept saying, oh, I'm playing golf with my friend Ed. so Ed's another another one of our uni friends that that um sometimes comes to the high rocks races with us and uh I was like yeah I was just playing golf with Ed like it's 18 holes so it's like a good couple of hours and I would drive up at least halfway to Birmingham and we'd like go for a walk or whatever and uh I remember one day my dad saying to my mom was like why is the mileage on the car like gone up by like 5 000 miles i was like oh shit um so yeah that was there's there's things you can laugh about now but at this time it's like like one it's almost it's quite dangerous because i hadn't told anyone like this could be like a random person like it's happening at the moment in uh in sydney which is actually really serious like people being going on like grinder and meeting people and like luring them into places and just like beating them up essentially as a form of like hate crime so like there's still that's in sydney australia that's crazy so like there is there's still a huge bigger picture and that's essentially yeah that's when my my instagram almost took off was when i actually kind of came out officially and then i used it as a form of a form of therapy and it's it was a lot easier for me to like talk on stories reason answer questions that people had and it really helped me to just like almost verbalize it because I'd never verbalized it to anyone before and then over time it just kind of picked up traction because obviously so many other people are going through the same thing um how did uh telling your parents go were they super supportive at first were they took back my mom struggled I think there's an element of like they grew up in the time of AIDS and And she has this like idea of like a utopian life that she wanted like kids and like grandkids and a perfect kind of like bubble sphere.

37:05And it's like, well, that's not really the reality of life. But she almost tried to curate that, which I get. And as you can imagine, it took me five to six to seven years to actually digest it myself. So I can't instantly expect them to be like, oh, amazing, like sort of thing when that's not. they don't have gay friends they're not exposed to that lifestyle so she struggled my dad was good because i told i actually told him first um and that was that was a moment in which it was like oh my god like this is like looking back it was if i could be a fly on the wall or you could record it it was where did you do it like did you just sit down or did you go on the kitchen table and i said dad i need to tell you something and i was like like shaking and i i genuinely like two minutes went by and i just started crying i was like like i need a minute to just like and then and then i was on the floor crying like it got to that point and then it got to a point where he was like are you dying and i was like no dad i'm just i'm just really struggling i'm like with my sexuality blah blah blah and he was like I never want to see you in that level of pain ever again so that helped from an empathy point of view like I think he had a lot of things to process but he saw it and he was like I don't ever want to see you go through that um so that really helped in terms of his understanding of where I was currently at in my mental health and life and stuff so yeah that was that was telling him and then I say to everyone who kind of speaks to me about telling their parents it's like time heals like it's not going to be an instant unless you're really lucky and your parents are pretty exposed to it and they're pretty liberal but um it's not going to be instant understanding and oh my god amazing we love having a gay son so it's um it's something that takes time and you have to work on it like my mum was pretty bad to be honest like I had to really like work with her to be like look I'm exactly the same person like I just happen to be attracted to men like that's the only difference so that was a process but something that it hardens you and turns you into someone that's I guess able to go on now and help others who are going through the same situation and you've become kind of well you have become one of the faces and a huge ambassador uh within especially sport but i'd say outside of sport as well um of like you say advocating it if uh you do want to come out and you uh want to like you don't want to hold it in anymore like you've created um obviously your brand yeah that's yeah that's a thing that we're trying to work on is we've got a charitable organization in which it's small scale at the moment but we're hoping to to get some some funding and create space around opportunity for people to either just come in like um anonymous and speak to people around their sexuality and things like that so got a bigger picture and we want to go in and do some like youth club stuff and go and speak in like sports teams and things so what are the kind of statistics on and you probably know these this is what i'm going to ask uh people that like are gay and then people that are gay in sport that have come out like what was the difference you know the ratios we don't know is the answer because there's not many that are out in in any any professional sport um at all there's a few sports that are a little bit more feminine like gymnastics or diving or a few others that are a little bit further along and progressive than than others so there's definitely more in those sports but that's yeah that's something that's become a hot topic is like the football side of things is like when's the first premier league player going to come out i think statistically there will be less gay players than obviously in sport in particular because of access not wanting to be in sport because they are gay bullying other aspects so there will be a smaller proportion and obviously cultural stuff like if you look at the premier league a lot of the players are from muslim countries which will obviously suppress that even more if they are um so there's a lot of there's a lot of factors and I think I'm pretty proud of myself to be in a position where I can sit here and sit on the high rock stuff and and talk about it quite candidly like I'm I'm pretty chill to be honest like if if people like jokes and whatever else like it does happen within within life and society and stuff I think you're actually the first person to to say a gay joke yeah like we're out it also helps like not break the ice but allow other people to feel like they're not like saying something inappropriate or whatever so you kind of you kind of have to set the tone within certain spaces because some people feel uneasy with what they can say what they can't say um so not hunter he'll say whatever he wants to be honest but yeah some people do so it's nice to be able to be like look like this is a safe space like we can we can joke and we can say what we like but as long as you're supportive and whatever else to not only me but to other people that might be what i say to people essentially is are you the friend that someone would want to come out to and that's that's all i'll say to people is like are you that friend and if not why not like that's a good point yeah so like would someone feel safe coming up to you your best friend or a friend or your sister or your brother would they feel safe coming up to you and saying i'm really struggling i'm gay and if not then do something about it essentially that is a really good point and i think something that everyone can think about yeah um how has all of this like affected if it has affected like your performance within hierarchs obviously like you said like you started to grow a following did that then in turn put more pressure on the performing side of it because people were watching you no matter whether you did bad or whether you did well like people yeah you can't have got expectations you can't you can't go to a race and someone's go oh that's that's jake williamson they can't say oh i don't know that guy over there everyone knows who you are within the space yeah it's tough and you you probably experience it as well like you have to almost if you're going to a race you have to be able you have to perform well that you can't go to a race now and not and just be like 50th or whatever so i did actually do that in phoenix i knew i was just feeling really rough after the doubles and i just went out and had fun and that was the best race or most fun i've had in a race because there was no pressure I think the biggest thing is probably because we are elite or elitist or want to be at the top of our game.

44:26The biggest pressure comes from here or here rather than anyone else. Like everything else you learn is essentially just noise. It's hard to say that or it's easy to say that it's hard to kind of block it all out because sometimes it does come in and have an impact. but I think yes it puts an element of pressure on you to perform but I think as people who are striving to be successful or be the best in the sport whether it's singles whether it's doubles whether it's whatever you're you're trying to achieve you put that pressure on yourself first and then the external pressure then piles on top of it and makes it worse but no I think yeah I think the the internal pressure for me is is more and I think I don't think I think being the gay athlete or someone who like I do think that has an element of okay I'm doing this for it adds a reason it adds a why it adds a factor but I definitely I think I do it selfishly first and I'm aware of that like I am quite a selfish person with what I do and I think that's why I'm I am successful because I have put myself first in a lot of situations um saying that if someone in my close circle needs anything I'm there but I do have a very small circle and I am very kind of tunnel vision around what I what I want and what what I need yeah I think that's what makes every top performing athlete great is the the element of selfishness but being I think there's a right way to go about it yeah and you arrogance confidence arrogance that kind of situation yeah and just like explaining to people in your circle like look this is my goals i promise you i'm i'm doing i want to do everything in my power to achieve these goals will you help me it's a much better way to put it than no i'm doing this i'm not going out with you tonight i'm not meeting up with you i'm not doing anything because i'm doing this yeah if you just explain to them like that or like even if you've got a friend and they're all saying oh will you come to dinner and you're like oh well i don't want to stay up late i don't want to train and instead of that you say oh do you want to come for a run instead or do you want to meet in the morning for a coffee so it doesn't interrupt your sleep or whatever like there's ways to go about it that i think um you're very good at and i think uh that's what makes you great but do you think the the pressure has made you a better athlete does it do you ever think about like days when you don't want to get up and train are you thinking well i'm in the elite 15 i've got a partner that i can't let down um i've got a huge following that want me to do well does that kind of go through your head or is it just as charlie as charlie would say pressure makes diamonds.

47:28I think I'm pretty relaxed. Like if I miss a session or if like something happens where I can't do something or I think if it happens over a long period, then I would, I get pretty angst and stressed, but I'm pretty good at being like, sure, whatever, like, oh, that's fine. But if it's a long period of time where I'm, which is why I go in and doing like training camps where you're just so hyper focused on that one goal is so good like i don't think you can replicate that because there's there is other distractions you have to go and walk the dog you have to go and see these people you have to do the house viewing that we're trying to sell the house for like when you're away in that in that mountain you don't have any of that you just have those four walls and you have one other person who has a goal that's just as big as yours so that's why i think that's super important but then that also comes with sacrifice you're away from home for four weeks or in my case three months when i went to dallas then melbourne and phoenix and whatever else so um i think sacrifice is a big part and do you feel like you sacrifice a lot when it comes to training like i always feel like the more and more serious you get within the higher up space and let's say trying to stay in that elite 15 it's getting tougher and tougher every year you've got to make more sacrifices almost i or do you not see it like i don't see it too much as sacrifice because i fucking love it yeah like i'm like i am obsessed like i don't love training ridiculous volumes and i don't like i don't enjoy that but i enjoy the process i love running with other people running on my own sucks i don't i'm not i'm not a fan but like that track session today i was just like this is fucking awesome like i was like i could do this forever if i could so So that, those moments and the thing, like winning that Phoenix race, like ridiculous, like the way we won it as well, just was, you look back and you're like, what sacrifice?

49:24Like that was unbelievable. So I think there's definitely, I'm very lucky that Paul works in sport. So he's very understanding and he gets it. But there is also an element of communication and whatever else. So that's the biggest form of sacrifice. But I never like drinking or going out anyway. I like to be in bed by nine. So I feel like I'm pretty lucky that I can use it as an excuse to say, oh, sorry, I can't come. Do you do anything out of the ordinary that you wouldn't expect an athlete of your caliber to do? Do you ever drink? No drink, just sweets and lots of them. Yeah, lots of sweets. Chocolate and sweets is my advice.

50:08Are we talking like every day or like? Pretty much. pretty much every day yeah and what's your opinion on nutrition then because that's it's a massive factor but it's more i think it's more training for uh fueling for the sessions and then fueling straight after i do think obviously you're the nutrition is a massive part don't get me wrong like i'm not downplaying it at all but i do think those there's key moments where the fueling is really really really important and i look at anything i eat as a form of fuel so i joke and say i eat sweets and chocolate and whatever else but they have a place and a purpose they're always like in and around training or to make up your calories at the end of the day it just makes me happy yeah like it's how much because like i said you're a positive person you're happy how much role do you think that plays into account when it comes to performing and recovery like do you think you'd perform and recover as well if you was depressed i think i think it's a bit of a spiral of decline and i think both play a role i don't think there's like a i'm actually going to work with a um mindset i have i did before phoenix actually i was really really anxious before that race there's a lot of pressure there was a lot of pressure yeah so i was I was pranging a little bit and so I got introduced to a good psych but my plan over the next six months is to do a lot more of that psych work because I found it really helpful but I do think yeah I think there's a definitely a catalyst of like and you see it within the high rock space with some athletes it's like are you happy and are you getting results and then you get results and then you have like it's like a bit yeah so it's a i do think being an elite athlete is a very very fine line and a dangerous a dangerous place if you're not like stable within that mental mental state like it's it's got a we spoke about it today like you've got to remove yourself from from it sometimes otherwise as much as we love it it is very all-encompassing like you see someone go and run a time you're like i'm a better athlete than them and then you see someone else go and do something else and then you see these guys do this and then you see that and you're like oh I need to get points now and whatever else so it's definitely you do have to stay in your lane and if you're good enough you will get in is what I keep saying to to other people and I say it to myself like if you are good enough like you won't see Tim Ronkovich Hunter complaining much about these point systems because they know they're going to go and win so like if you are good enough and you are absolutely good enough you're going to go get back in that elite 15 space so I do I mean I moan as much as the next person but that's the reality isn't it like if you're good enough you will be in that elite 15 whether it's this year or next year because of points based system or whatever so that's the mindset that i've got i like that and i've also like assessing kind of like last couple of years uh of knowing you quite closely you like to also take time off take holidays whether when you take these holidays are you still training yeah full intensity or you just like training for enjoyment i think you went to cape town did two weeks in cape town yeah two weeks yeah i train i mean more than anyone else would on holiday yeah but i'm not as you say like when you have when you're on holiday you're with your partner or your whatever else and if you've got a day trip plan to go and climb the mountain it's like a lot of it is a mindset shift to be like okay this is a mountain that i'm climbing this is basically like a stair master for two hours or whatever so you have to that's what i do anyway i i i find a way to change the narrative in my own brain rather than being like okay i'm going to do this climb and then i'm going to go to the gym and do two hours of erg work or whatever so i um yeah i'm pretty good at that mindset shift of being like there's more to life as much as it's all encompassing there is more to life and and be present when the opportunity to be present is like paul works a lot i train a lot So as much as we live together and do everything together, there's also not, weirdly, not that much time where you're actually present and seeing each other.

54:26So what things do you do outside? Like what's your downtime looking like? The theatre. We go to the theatre a lot. I tend to just do this slowly and fall asleep. And it's an opportunity for me to eat more sweets because you need a bag of sweets at the theatre. And then we've got a darts board in the bedrooms. So we just got up and played arts, which is pretty cool. Another perk of being a gay man is you get to do sporty stuff. Not like girls don't do sport, but you get to do all the fun things with your partner as well. So yeah, but yeah, holidays. But yeah, pool works a lot. So those opportunities, like we did four weeks in Australia as part of the Melbourne race.

55:07And then he had some time off and we watched the Ashes, which is the cricket. so it's nice to have those holidays and you've got a you have got to be present when you can because then the other time of the year you really switch on and obviously we train today today was a hard day uh you was talking about how you tuesday thursday saturday uh quite intense days and then you have easier days what's kind of like a typical week of training looking like for you at the moment got a bit of crossfit fix um i'm enjoying that work i think it's good for me it makes me a like stronger harder athlete um so i'm doing the crossfit open uh waiting for the workouts to come out um but yeah monday so i'll go through the week essentially monday easy runs um could be anything from five to 10k in the morning maybe some like a lot of the easy runs i do i'll try and if it's not like a rest day or a recovery day i'll try and put some form of pickups or speed within it so it might be like 20 minute easy zone two stuff and then like five by two minutes or whatever like put some speed half like won't be hard hard it'll just be like half marathon marathon pace just so i'm getting really used to that 320 330 pacing um and then monday evening if I feel really good I might go down to forwarders and do like a high rocks type session um if not just ergs and jump go to the gym with um my coach Mike Tuesday's the hard day so I'll do right now what I'm doing is um I'm really struggling with the back half in the solos in terms of like mindset and attacking it so we'll do like a big 25 minute 30 minute amrap um of like echo lunges push get real fatigue within your within your body probably put some pull in there just to uh stimulate the back a bit and then i'll do the back half including the burpees so i'll do basically just push hard from burpees till warbles um which i'm finding quite useful so that should hopefully come into play and then that's a hard session and then a tuesday night will be another hard track session so that's like a real hard day and then wednesday will be like just jog if i feel good if not just swim or bike or move essentially mobility stuff do you ever take full day right now no like when i'm not ready for competitions yeah um or if i just feel cruddy like last week i took a full day off because i was like i'm knackered like i woke up and i was like i am beat so yeah i think body awareness is important uh and then thursday kind of similar to to tuesday essentially i get real specific um and then some more like what the running session we did today was so like the tuesday track session would probably be a little bit shorter like 1k's to 400 repeats thursday will be like the three two k's to three k's and would it always be on a track or would you not the thursday the tuesday's always track because there's the good athletes in birmingham are always down at the track on a tuesday so you just jump in with like yeah 30 lads and you just run around and it's just easy to hit pace because you're just either you just say there's five of you doing at the end of the session and you've got five more reps to do they'll take one they'll take one they'll take one they'll take one and then it's the session's done so it just ticks a box it's nice and gets it done when it's like real hard um and then yeah thursday run friday easy saturday at the moment's just been park running just like nice hard tempo efforts and then do a little bit more afterwards so warm up 2k tends to be 1k because i'm lazy and i don't get up early enough to get more than 2k in uh 5k hard like 16 30 ish so like 320 pace roughly just a bit 315 um and then depends how i feel and then a bit of a session afterwards so maybe like 3 by k or 3 by 5 by 800 or whatever um just to add the volume at that intensity and then if i feel good on Saturday I'll do some more if not I tend to take the weekends pretty chill um I also just like it's nice to just be as I say be present like Paul's not working on the weekends at the moment so it's have those those days to just do the little things like clean the house or whatever else and then Sunday's always long run for me um 90 minutes usually with another group of super easy or do you ever pick up uh to be honest it depends what they're doing I just jump into their session like it's quite nice to be quite free and they'll if you if you turn up and they say okay we're doing this session it's like all right like i'll always have my easy shoes and my my race shoes ready to go so um now that they're getting close to manchester and london marathon these guys are all marathon people so i'll usually see what their session is and then i'll be like okay i'm going to do this portion of it and get my stimulus and then do my 90 minutes and then run back and then get a iced coffee after yeah pretty uh pretty big week do you ever look at your week in terms of like obviously everyone at the moment is obsessed with like training hours and stuff like that are you are you fussed with that are you all about kind of like session quality quality and i like i think it's good to observe these other people that put all their training mileage out and whatever else but i also i don't know if it's that healthy to be honest i'm not a massive i'm not a mass i like i like putting my sessions up and saying what i've done in the day but i don't think i'll ever be like this is my training block this week or whatever i don't i don't know it doesn't it doesn't it just feel i don't know it's not braggy but it just feels a little i don't know it feels a bit no i i don't know what i don't know what it makes me feel but i'm not i'm not a massive a fan of it going out there and people trying to copy it um so yeah I don't I try and just stay in my lane to be honest I've got my coach who does my program and we discuss it each week and we're like okay this works this volume works my back saw today I've done this what why is my back saw how do we load it better next time like all those things so I do I do try and stay in my lane um as much as we're all chronically online and we've fucking seeing everything that goes out I do try and stay in my lane and just enjoy it as I say like enjoy my training and my process and what's going on like there's a it's annoying because we we want to be successful and we want to be successful now and like I'd love to be a 55 solo athlete right now and I might go and do that this week I'm fit enough to do it I just haven't done it yet but it's there'll be there'll be people out there and as you say the pressure of performance and whatever else that are like what like oh great race jake or whatever um and i'm like okay cool but there's a long process around it it's not just this race that turn is me as an athlete like i'll go and do that over here in my doubles race like this one race doesn't define who i am as a person who i am as an athlete sort of thing so yeah it's uh it's an interesting one for sure oh it it definitely is is a and just touching on that point like it's so hard with social media like you say everyone posting everything everyone posting their their run times and i'm guilty of it as well we're all guilty i mean i've i've i've definitely i've done a weekly roundup i've definitely done it it's funny how like even myself like i'll only do it on a good week yeah or a week where i like i think yeah i've trained a lot i'll put out my week funny enough though like when you put i put something up about like our zone to run like this zone to run was really hard or like basically just showed an element of vulnerability within training and i had more messages from that than i have from any track session that i've ever put up where i think oh i'm so sick here like this is unbelievable and then i'll i'll put up like oh like this was a crap session basically and people are like thank you so much like for showing an element of vulnerability throughout i think that goes back to racing as well like if you can kind of have that mindset as an athlete that if you think you're a role model to anyone or everyone's a role model and there's you know there's someone looking up to everyone yeah so if you have a good race whether you have a good race or whether you have a bad race you're showing that that can happen to everyone and 99 % of the people following online will have a bad race within their career like so you showing that you've had a bad race and how you kind of overcome that and come back it's probably more inspiring and more relatable to them people than just having yeah the journey's going to be great after they're on a 54 when i've been running 59s for the last however long or not even finishing for some of them so um yeah i'm excited to to race and and put it all together because it's hard work it takes time like say like if you look at the amount of people that have come in and out of that elite 15 over the years uh it's been a lot of people and i think if the athlete has a mindset of right i might not be in it this year but i aim to be back into it next year or the year after um they're going to be the ones that are successful within the future because this sport also is it's only 15 spaces that's considering it's like everyone and their nan doing hyrox now that's not a lot of yeah it's very yeah it's stacked so i think uh there's a lot of pressure on ourselves and stuff to be there but being in and amongst it is a big enough achievement yeah on that note with hyrox do you think the hyrox solos is always going to be the main event or do you think hyrox doubles is a little bit more entertaining i think it is more exciting the doubles yeah like it is it is a spectacle and it is really really cool i think both are like i'm i am a massive fan of hyrox and the sport itself and and watching it like i'll go back and watch all the races because i just love watching it and it's exciting to me i do think there's it's tough when it's constantly changing like i'm obviously and yourself are well aware of like who certain athletes up and coming are who are the athletes who are getting into the elite 15 but there's so many changes as you say over the last like six months to a year that it's really hard to keep up with who's who so unless you in my opinion anyway and within sport I do think unless you know who the athletes are or you have a personal relation in some way to the to the athlete I think it's hard to buy in like I do think it's like okay that's that's cool but like I'm not bothered whereas if you're a fan and you support a player or a team it's a lot easier for you to buy into that sport so i think we need to be not like it needs to be a set 15 for the year but i do think that would make it better from a like sporting perspective i don't think it should happen because it's it's just not the way that the sport works but i do think that's going to be the big dictator of who watches what and i think you could see it without being big-headed you could see it with the way that when me and hunter went and raced like the hype around it beforehand the messages that i was getting the stuff afterwards that we got like that was a big moment that attracted people in to watch the event so i think more of that needs to happen whether it's a car it's a very good at the media stuff like they they do produce and you can't knock them for that but i think as athletes we almost need to probably do more as well um or have the support to do more so there's obviously it's great that we're putting stuff out on the high rocks page but can we do more to elevate elsewhere and things um and then another thing i think we need to have better um marketing around tickets for those bigger events like phoenix was it was a huge stadium so it felt a lot quieter than it was but like you need to essentially just everyone who's this that stadium fills out for nfl so there's obviously there's people that love sport and want to see live sport so how do we then get them to get their bums on seats to come and watch a new sport that's um a little bit different so but yeah to answer your question i think solos will always be the pinnacle of like what an athlete wants to do and that'd be be the world champion but I think the doubles is a more exciting prospect of an event to watch for people interesting and then obviously the relay is the other one fuck the relay now I'm out it's fucking bullshit so Hyrox have changed the rules on the relay where basically you're not chosen anymore so you can't choose your team normally it would be someone gets to be selected as a team captain and that team captain can pick whoever they think is the best relay team relay team which a relay team is completely different to a hyrox like essentially you're just running well it's one one k run into one station so it's seven minutes of work yeah seven minutes of anaerobic work whereas the hyrox is like say 50 to 60 minutes so it's completely different event uh and the great thing that i found about the kind of captain thing is the captain gets to choose but he or she doesn't have to be involved within the team so bowels yeah great example and credit to him for doing this he opted out he was like yes i am an elite 15 athlete i am one of the best in the world but I go around a three minute kilometer he's like I am not a sprinter and he held his hands up and he picked a better team which credit to him I don't know many people that do that but now it's completely different it's just off your high rocks time so top two males top two females and like I say it's probably rightly deserved but I don't think it's going to create the optimal team for a relay especially when we have people like you who like say you've got a 154 800 meters there is no no one in that elite 15 that's got anywhere near that even a sub two 800 meter really um so maybe it may be luke grier but uh yeah it is it is interesting um moving on so obviously we talked training recovery tactics is there anything in particular you do out the ordinary is there anything you rate i like my recovery boots yeah I would like to do a bit more red light um I've never really done it but I've seen like people say that it's that it's pretty good so I'd like to try it and see for recovery I've heard it's good for eyesight and stuff like that I think recovery like if you look at um well basically one of my coach's dog has like arthritis and he'll put the red light on him and he before putting the red light on he won't be able to jump in the car and then he'll put the red light on the dog and the dog will just like get up and jump in the car.

1:10:54Shit, I need some less. So yeah, so my back, I'm thinking, I'm just going to absolutely laser it. Not really, I'm very good with sleep. Yeah? I love sleep. Like I'll wake up in the morning and be like, I'm going back to sleep. So you'll never, unless you need to, set an alarm. I mean, like this morning I'm set at 5.40, I was up. And if I need to get up, I'm sweet. I'll splash my face with water and I'm sweet to go. but I do like how many hours talking I would say my average is like nine sick yeah get I'm in obviously things come up but I'm in bed by ten sleep by half ten latest and then I'll wake up at eight do you sauna cold punch any of that stuff more so I would sauna more but just access yeah is there anything that you ever do do you have like a hot bath or anything yeah bath with salts if I'm really tired.

1:11:53But again, few and far, only if I'm like, or if I can be bothered essentially. I know it's not a hard task, but run the bath and put salts in. No, nutrition, sleep, all the basics to be honest. What about stretching, mobility? Pliability. So I stretch, I try and stretch every day. Normally I'll do it pre-session. So what I'm good at is do it when i do like a two-hour training session the first 20 and the final 20 will be warm well maybe not the final because i'll just go home but the first 20 i'll try and do my key yeah it's actually it's actually cool the playability app they uh they've started doing that one routines i don't know if you're seeing so you my my stretches are on there now it's so funny because you have someone you have like tia and she's got like the most perfect mobility and then there's me and i'm like so i think it's quite good though because most people were probably in the same boat so yeah no i like it i especially like it how it makes you it forces you to hold stretches for a little bit longer than you would i normally i'm 10 seconds 10 to 30 seconds guy.

1:13:11Yeah. That's not just stretching. Yeah. No, I'm joking. But sometimes it's like two, three minutes. Three minute holds. Yeah, I never know. Pigeon poles. I never, three minute. That's what was on my plan yesterday. So yeah, but no, I think it is helping, which is good. Anything else out of the ordinary?

1:13:34Not really. do you have any kind of rituals that you do before racing or anything like that nah i'm pretty i've tried i've started trying that um seen that nomeo oh yeah broccoli yeah i do think it works you know so i've tried i love the taste of it to be fair i actually i don't mind the taste of it i mean it's a little bit it's better than beetroot that's yeah beet it tastes that's horrible but i've done bicarb and i've not really i don't know but before phoenix i did bicarb and nomeo and i felt great so now i'm like any hard hard session i didn't bring it today but any hard hard session i'll take a shot of nomeo now because i'm like i can't not yeah but who knows little half of it's placebo anyway isn't it but if you if it does help you placebo effect then why not so what is it is broccoli sprouts broccoli sprouts i think i don't know what the science behind it is but it's it's all it's all like lactic buffer and stuff isn't it that's what like by car well worst case scenario like it's probably good for you as well it's a shot of greens so yeah and some lemon juice yeah so no no that's cool um i want to finish with some quick fire questions first one is was i meant to prep for this yeah sorry you didn't see them uh probably because it's just in my head yeah but uh do you first of all do you like cooking

1:15:08um i'm a little bit impatient with like like i like to do things rude like even though i have nothing else on afterwards i kind of just want to rush to get and sit on the sofa like it's so bad but i do i am quite a good cook actually okay so so if you was uh chefing up for paul do you know you was cooking a nice romantic meal yeah what would your meal of choice you know it used to be this used to be a controversial thing that i used to cook for the boys at uni and the first time i did it they were like that's disgusting as in like not the taste but like i told them what it was and it was the chicken tikka lasagna so chicken tikka lasagna yeah that's unbelievable so you cook the chicken tikka as if you would just chop up the chicken and put whatever you'd want in onions whatever else um fry off as if you would like if you were making a lasagna you would with bolognese type the mincemeat um and then you literally layer it up as if you were making the lasagna so you do bitter chicken lasagna sheets white sauce uh chicken lasagna sheets white sauce chicken lasagna sheets white sauce and then you're done and then top it where did What are you doing on that?

1:16:20Just curious. I think it was just something my mum did when she was just cooking for us once. I think it might have been in a cookbook or something. That is pretty rogue. But it's good. I'd give it a try. It's good. I think we're going to have to come around to yours. Mate, I haven't done it in years. Or just a good old roast. Homemade roast is, to be fair, Paul's the king of that. So he can make that. Next one. If you could only run or lift weights for the rest of your life, which one are you choosing? Run. interesting any reason why exploring the opportunity to like whenever you go somewhere new I always run and I would also I think that is actually a sick hack yeah for like just like yeah exploring a new place yeah like exploring a city as soon as you get in like that morning get out for a run whilst your other ass in bed or whatever you come back and you look like a genius yeah like you've got everything you're like oh this coffee shop's here we just got down the road we go to that coffee shop we're going there for lunch uh you know the cathedral's over there and you know where everything is and like how are you so clever and you're just like listen i'm just gifted i'm a genius if i even when i retire from any form of like competing i think i would like to live in the mountains and just run around and take the dog out and run and whatever else so yeah i think i think run but i do like i like both i do enjoy lifting weights as well any bad habits that you've got i feel like someone else needs to answer those for you i think i'm perfect you must have one i I don't know.

1:18:04I am pretty untidy. I'm not dirty, I don't think. The surfaces and things will be clean, but my bedroom, because the amount of clothes and things that I go through, and I'm also pretty ADHD, so I'll forget that I've left things. Before I know it, it's like, how is the washing there and this there and whatever? So that's probably my bad habit. Untidy. Are you harder? are you pretty good at getting rid of stuff when i say hauler i mean like obviously you get a lot of clothing no i'm pretty good i've got a lot of people that i can i can lend or give clothes to once it's yeah had its cycle so i try to be i don't have enough we're moving house because of this literally this is like the main reason why we're moving house because the amount of stuff that i have um but i don't have enough wardrobe space to be able to be a hoarder so i think if i if I gain access to the hoarding opportunities, then maybe.

1:19:04If you couldn't do high rocks and you couldn't do any sport, what would you do for a career?

1:19:14So we're taking out like online coach as well. That's cheating.

1:19:23Maybe like,

1:19:28like a tour like a nature it's kind of sport but like a tour guide or something for like a ski resort or something or like a mountaineering but that is sport isn't it or like a sherpa no more like more like just like knowing the mountains and then people would come to you and just like pay you to show them the cool trails and things that's pretty cool where do you go that happens well I do it sometimes when if you go skiing you can pay someone and they like take you up touring and then you ski down is that like off piece yeah off piece so you've got to be good enough to do that I'm still on like green and blue slopes I'll take you out there we go do you do a lot of skiing I haven't since Covid we used to ski a lot yeah I love it but I just need to find a time to go when I'm not going to potentially break anything so that yeah I can get out That job that you just mentioned there, that suits quite well with your retirement plans of sitting on top of the hill.

1:20:30Six months of the year. Running. Six months of the year. Yeah. Is there anywhere in the world that you'd particularly look at living? Would it be the UK? Do you want to stay near Birmingham forever? I don't know. I'm pretty nomadic. I could live anywhere, I think. I do. I love... Has anywhere caught your eye? Being up in the mountains in Malibu is special, but I don't think I would live there. So I quite like having the base in the UK and being able to like go to Cape Town or do... Yeah, I think Cape Town is a big one. You've got the same time difference. You've got unbelievable mountains and scenery, good living.

1:21:11Like it's a pretty good spot. So that could be an option. And then maybe, I don't know, somewhere like Mallorca or somewhere where it's hot and you've got good biking and trails and things. And then final question, if there's one piece of advice that you could give to someone that is currently training for High Rocks, they've done a couple of races, they want to get better, is there anything they'd say? Let's do this. One thing to start doing and one thing to take out, like you think. So one overrated thing, one thing to they should pay i think depending on what what you want to achieve is a big kind of variable within this but if you're wanting to be like elite or really good it's so it's annoying to say but patience is a massive factor like no i said it to tom like know your training age essentially and know where you're at and where you can go to and be realistic like if you're two years into your journey you've got another five-ish years probably to really build and create that like a lot of us guys have been doing this since we were like six years old running like some form of real capacity-based training whether it's running whether it's from football and being super fit through that whether it's gymnast like gym work or whether it's crossfit or whatever you've had anyone who's in that elite sport now within higher ox has an elite level or very high level background within some other capacity-based sport ronkovich swimming luke running tim i think cross-country skiing or some some form of capacity um a few of the other guys triathlon so like their training years are so advanced i've been doing running since i was like eight years old cross country and track and whatever else and i'm still trying to climb little tiny mountains within it so know your training years be realistic and be patient and build a solid plan but then also the the best thing is build that plan knowing that yes you can get there but also enjoy the process because success isn't just being world champion or winning so um the process of training and having good people around you in your corner don't like cut off the world just because you're because you're training like still have good people around you and and hopefully they'll make the sacrifices for you to be able to to grow and be in the sport and space but yeah enjoy the process be patient and then hopefully you do well sick i think we can uh end it on that that was sick pleasure thank you jake appreciate that