Joe Wigfield - #014

0:00Joe Wigfield. Hello, you alright? How we doing mate? Yeah I'm good thanks, how are you? Yeah, how was the travels in today? Yeah, it was alright. It only took like 45 minutes to an hour to get into Central so pretty chilled. Trains were nice and quiet because everyone went in a little bit earlier so yeah pretty silent. so have you trained this morning i went for a run yeah um had work came back went straight for a run six miles and then yeah came into here we'll have another five miles to do later so a bit of a double day so for the people that don't know you obviously you're a professional runner how would you describe yourself um well you could say now that i'm the equal british record holder over 10 000 meters um on the road that was sick that to watch that was it yeah it was sick to watch yeah so yeah i'll say you can call me that now um i've kind of a jack of all trades from all over the distances i like doing track and then i like doing roads and i've done cross country before as well so yeah i like doing doing all and obviously since doing valencia like i'm buzzing though i'm on a proper high from that as well so yeah it's pretty cool so things kind of took off from there obviously i've known that you've been a great runner for quite a while and obviously it's taken a long time to get to this point but uh since then you're newly signed with nike so congratulations thank you on that much has that how has that kind of like changed your life um or has it not is it are things still the same things are kind of still the same obviously what it means now is that i've got security um obviously financial backing is obviously really good um but i don't necessarily want it to change my life too much um i feel like how i've got here and how i've got to the performances i've kind of kept like a structured um a structured day structured work day structured training day and like i just want to continue that and maybe try and encourage myself to be a little bit more focused in the training um with the backing of obviously now you can hopefully i can just keep on you know performing in races and i don't necessarily want it to change too much but if i can put a bit more focus onto my training days that'd be great do you feel like it puts a little bit more pressure on yourself i would say no purely based off the fact um i have previously been in a professional contract before and i was on a one-year contract there whereas this one's a multi-year one and i kind of knew that at the end of well midway through that contract i could potentially not have one at the end of the year and which turns out i didn't anyway even though i pb'd in all my areas but then last year when i wasn't signed with anyone I would say that was where the pressure really hit and like I'm 26 years of age I was 25 then like you know life starts becoming a bit of a reality there and now that I've signed this contract for a few years like the the pressure's kind of off really like I know Nike they're good backing me um getting well with them even like it's only been like a month since I've signed um like I've gotten well with them really really well and I don't feel the pressure with them like they just want me to go out and perform and that if that's what they're encouraging then there's no reason why I should have the pressure on me no that's uh that's cool to hear that a brand is supporting you so much that it actually takes the pressure off uh you mentioned there that you was at work this morning what'd you do for work yeah so um I go into primary schools and coach.

3:56It's mainly running, but it can be like, you know, discus throwing, throwing. Like it is primary school, so you are kind of limited. But yeah, I go into primary schools, do the after school clubs there for like an hour. It's like kids club. And then this morning is kind of like one of them gifted and talented sports clubs in the school. So they kind of just get them all in or like the, you know, your topper. your top athletes in years three and above as much as you can call them top athletes and just kind of get them training get them encouraged running running doing throwing and yeah it's just a bit of fun really but if they enjoy it and that means we enjoy it and then it's actually nice you can see the progression of them from like we've had some kids that have been there from year one all the way through to year six like i've been doing it for like four or five years now and it's kind of cool to see where they've started and how they're ending up now it's yeah it's pretty nice that must be fulfilling yeah it's nice like you know i kind of go to the same schools every year um and like i do it five days a week and you do get on well with the kids and like they kind of look up to you as well and like they always ask like how did your races go and like they like really enjoy you like telling them how you did and like they're like wow that's amazing like it is really quite cool to have that yeah that's uh that's so cool my question would be how do you balance obviously the training load with the work uh is there any conflict of interest there or do you feel like you actually benefit more because you're not constantly thinking about training all the time you've got something to take you away from that and you know you're devoting your time to other people helping other people whilst making a living yeah so i'd say like for some people like they enjoy just running and that's it and that's fair enough to them but for me like i don't actually enjoy the like constantly being focused on running obviously i'm switched on from a training like i know what i need to do but i like actually having that break away from my career and doing what I need to do and like I help like I enjoy providing like you know whether that's advice or like going into these schools like I do enjoy that and like it does take your mental state away from what you're doing what you've got got on for the next couple of days say if you've got a hard training session coming up and you know you people would probably be worried about oh I need to make sure I hit these splits but if I can take my mental state away from that then it definitely helps and like one thing i have definitely learned like i learned the hard way through injuries but like what you see in your training plan like you have to accommodate what what else you're doing in your day or in your life like obviously you've got stress you've got like say if you've got a busy day and your coach has set you like a double day with a big training session in the morning and then you're up on your feet the whole whole day and then you've got to go do another session later on in the day like that's actually not sustainable and that's probably one of the like the biggest causes of injuries is because what you're seeing on paper is like yes obviously it's the training plan but you've got to accommodate what else you're doing like if you're on your feet you're exerting the energy and there's more you know training load going through your body the more load throughout the day is going through your body and i kind of figured that when i did have my injuries that i was doing too much in the day and trying to you know do the all the training's been set as well as doing everything in the day and yeah i think obviously learned that the hard way but it definitely for mentally it helps so for someone who is in that position and you know they've got a tough day whether it's the day set by the coach and they've also got a busy day like how do you change it so you don't end up getting injured or risk injury because you're overworking because at the end of the day stress is stress and i think that's what people struggle to understand like the training stimulus that you provide on your body is almost the same stress as an argument that you have with your partner or whether it's a heavy work day or whether it's you stressing your body out with nutrition or not sleeping properly like these are all stresses and they all add up and that's kind of what you what you talk about there is pushing yourself over the edge and it can result in an injury being tired not feeling the session when you have got a busy day how do you like get over that and still either get your training in or do you make your training easier or what do you think about um i think well for me obviously i've got my coach and i think it's about being transparent with your coach as well um like make them aware of what you what you're doing or make them aware if you're comfortable like what what's going on in your life and if there's stress going on like they i'm sure like my coach definitely he's like accommodates for it like if you're not able to do that double run he's he's completely understandable if if that's what you've if that you've been busy in the day and it's just about actually taking a bit of ownership in your own running or own training doesn't have to be running but like you if you know that you've got a stressful day ahead like you've got meetings and like you you've got this training plan that you're working towards like it's probably doing you more harm than good for going out and maybe doing that second session or if you're doing a training session like yeah it's a crucial training session you don't have to hit the top end splits you can take a step back and at the end of the day you've still got it done and you've accommodated what's going on in your life and I just think it's just finding that nice balance and like it's hard to find the balance because obviously you're shooting for these goals and like everyone's got their own individual goals and you want to do what you can to achieve it but it can actually have like a bit of a negative effect on you by overdoing it and that's where you need to take the ownership and like you know what i can miss that second run uh i can take a step back in the training um like whether it's like you know what i'm knackered i need to get an early night tonight like because you know what you got on the next day it's about taking the ownership and being a bit transparent with your coach or being transparent with the people you've got around you whether you haven't got a coach but your partner your family and like you've got a lot of stuff going on like i feel like they need to be made aware of what you're doing and what's going on in your life and that just definitely makes a massive difference in your performance and also in just in your training performances as well yeah that's uh that's really interesting i struggle with that a little bit like when when i've got something set or if i've said i'm going to go and do this and you know shit hits the fan that day you know something out the ordinary happens there's something in my head that's like i still need to go get that done and like you say sometimes it's more harmful than not how do you kind of have the confidence it's almost a confidence to say no i'm gonna rest i don't need that session it'll be fine tomorrow i'll actually be better if i don't train yeah um i think like is it through experience do you think of definitely for myself it's through experience um but like say it is confidence and like you just need to take a step back and look at the long-term goals and like yeah it may look good on paper that you've completed x y and z but if you know that like for me from the experience that if you know that what you're actually doing could be a bit harmful like you don't want to risk it and you can overcompensate for it and that's definitely like what I've learned is you don't want to overcompensate your training or overload the back end of the week because you've missed some of the stuff like it's just is what it is really and like like you say it looks good on paper but you don't necessarily have to always do it and yeah it can be a mental thing of where you're wanting to complete everything you can everything you get set but yeah you just you don't necessarily have to and yeah it's definitely just a confidence thing and I think you learn and you mature like as you go further on in in your career and like it's probably the same for like just in the working environment as well like you know everything like there's been a big emphasis on like your mental health and work and all that and like if you know that you've had a stressful week and if you speak to your boss and you just go oh do you know what like kind of maybe just have it take a step back and maybe like have an extended weekend and like that's the confidence that you need to kind of progress in any way any way of your life i think yeah where did this all start well the confidence just the the confidence the the confidence in your running abilities um as so i've always knew i was like pretty quick so if we're starting back there like i was playing footy i was playing on the wing like i would always be able to run past people so i always knew that i was pretty quick and that and i could keep on running throughout the whole game but the confidence sides of taking a step back from training if things getting hard or I feel like an injury is coming on or anything like that came from when I've had a few stress fractures um that happened in my second year of university like I made the GB team GB juniors team in my first year and I really wanted to take a step forward in my career and try and progress but and in a way of doing that I pushed up my mileage, pushed up my training intensity but I was also doing a lot more work outside because you're in university you need to make the money so I was just constantly on my feet, touring and throwing everywhere and I got a stress fracture in my sacrum so that knocked me for 12 weeks out and it leaves you a lot of time to reflect because you're not able to run, you're able to do other things but you're not able to run and running is really what I truly enjoy I enjoy going on the bike when I can but you can't always do that but I then tried to within that first injury I kind of overcompensated with my training like the cross training so I was trying to make sure that I was coming back fit well trying to come back even fitter than I was when I first got injured and then I rushed back and basically refracted the area so that allowed another 12 weeks out but I actually took 16 weeks out because I wanted to ensure that everything was sorted and I learned from that experience of the whole time reflecting what I've probably done wrong is being constantly busy and just then took a slow progression back rather than rushing back I kind of allowed myself like six months rather than trying I do it in three months to get back to somewhat good level of fitness and that's where I learned like do you know what if I need to skip a day I can skip a day if I've been chockering the week and like I can only fit in one run like that's fine like it's not gonna be the end of my life by doing too much but like it can cause some somewhat issues so yeah that's that's just essentially where i've learned it from and yeah and that's kind of what how i've been recently like i've touched wood been injury free for quite a substantial amount of time now and i've been a lot smarter in my training and that's just kind of how i'm looking at it from now on and at the moment obviously you said that you're uh kind of like a jack of all trades in the running space so track star you run obviously you've just ran the the 10 000 meter equal to british record which is insane um what's your training looking like what's like a typical week like let's just talk about mileage does it change much depending on what kind of season you're in and how does your kind of season look as well like if you're still doing all these things or do you kind of focus on one goal for one year at a time and then move on or so you kind of have like multiple goals throughout the year um with running it can kind of be split up into like split in half essentially you have your summer season which is normally track and field um and then so that's literally from end of april let's say till mid-september that's where you're doing all your short distance stuff like your 5k on the track your 1500 meters your miles and then the other part of the year is your winter training where that tends to be until this year was i was predominantly doing cross country and some indoor racing um but this year i've just decided to stick on the road and it's definitely benefited me by doing that but why is that by the way like do you think it's better than cross country or do you just want to mix it up or um i i basically figured out that i was a lot better at road running than i was at cross country like i was always within like the top 10 in the uk for cross for cross country but you need to kind of be in that top six to make the teams um and on the road you kind of there's one financial benefit there is like there's a lot more prize money for races which back when i wasn't sponsored i was kind of chasing just to kind of get that added bonus of money um and you can get to another reason is like you can travel a lot a lot of cool places do these big races like uh obviously it's good to be in Europe um you got the Copenhagen Copenhagen half marathon um I just did Barcelona half as well I've never done a marathon but like you can go do your 10ks your 5ks and it's just cool to kind of travel there and it's just you also know as well like from these races you're getting a time rather than a place and like a lot of people look to get them times whereas cross-country is purely based off placing and like you do want to place as high up as possible but you know that in these big races you've got your like your kenyans the ethiopians who are probably going to be at the top of the race and if you know if you can run with them for as long as possible you're probably going to be dragged along to a good time and a good position as well almost like pacemakers yeah essentially and like you do know like they are going to probably run away from you like that's why they are so good and like they are just pretty mental in that but yeah i just much prefer the roads but with training um like it can't kind of keep similar like volume wise is kind of the same but in the summer i'd say there's a lot more higher intensity because you want to be that little bit faster just to be on the track um but for me i'm not someone who can smash out a load of miles it may seem like a lot of miles to some people but in the grand scheme of things like i've run like 70 to 75 miles a week um some weeks are down like almost at like 50 if i'm recovering from a race i think the last week i did like 30 miles because i raced barcelona half and i was knackered so i just kind of took a few days off and yeah got back into training um later on in the week but yeah 70 to 75 miles and you look at some people they're running 120 miles like almost double what i'm doing but i just can't hack it like my body doesn't enjoy doing that i just feel constantly knackered i love how you're not looking at other people's training though and thinking i need to be doing that because they're improving or they're getting better like i feel like people have got to understand that what works for someone else might not necessarily work for you yeah absolutely and again it comes back to that confidence i think because i catch myself doing it within high rocks or whether it's running and it's almost like this insecurity that you have that you don't feel like you either deserve where you are or you kind of you don't feel like you're as good so you need to be doing more and more and more and i feel like you've got that confidence where you don't need to do that and you benefit from that and like you say it's probably took years and years to learn that and like say the injuries and things like that but no it's really cool like it's nice sitting down with someone who just has that aura and has that confidence to be able to this is what i do it works for me i'm going to keep doing it yeah it's not fixed then what's the what's saying if it's not not if it's not broken don't fix it yeah yeah that's the one that's it but yeah like that's what it is like you got to try and find what works for you and like like same with your high rocks like if you've been able to perform well off doing what you're doing then it's actually much better to stack weeks and weeks and weeks of doing the same training because you know that works for you and like yeah there's many videos out of what you need what people are doing like it's always good to kind of explore these like new training methods but if you believe that's what works for you then just like you say if it's not broke then fix it like it just it'll benefit you more by being consistent than trial trial and error so what's the typical week looking like so let's go monday through to sunday obviously like say it probably change yeah well yeah it does change but like the kind of structure is still there so my monday is would be six miles in the morning five miles in the evening just super easy just yeah nice and chill probably around like seven minute mile and um don't know what that is in case but yeah seven minute mile and just nice recovery pace and then tuesday would be like a vo2 session um either on the track or in the local park bushy park it's like a typical workout for that so on i was based off what i did on tuesday um we did two sets of 2k 200 jog 1k and so you had two sets of that and then some eight eight by 400 so that was one that was a bit more intense rather than volume based um what was the rest periods in between them 400s 60 seconds so after the 2k 1k 2k 1k we had like five minutes worth of recovery and then went and did that's where you're going like anaerobic almost yeah just borderline like i think i was doing the 2ks in like 520 so that's like 240k pace right so you're shifting yeah so even and that was just with the 200 jog after yeah so it was 200 jog but it was like 100 meters walk right it's like 90 seconds two minutes yeah two minutes more like like we wanted to emphasize on the pace this one rather than just getting the volume in which some sessions like are just get it done can be b plus standard whereas on tuesday wanted to be like an a plus standard and then yeah the 400s were done in like 63 seconds down to like 58 seconds wow um just off 60 seconds like stationary recovery essentially um and then i would go do some snc work in the afternoon after this after the session so i've gone back had some food went back to the gym probably spent like an hour hour and a half in the gym which kind of just like some basic gym work but that's something i introduced like recently and it's definitely definitely helped me and then Wednesday I'll be looking at like eight to ten miles of running um just a single easy run again just kind of flushing the legs out from Tuesday session Thursday like today would be again similar to Monday just six miles in the morning five miles in the evening and then Friday would be a double threshold day where i'll do like six miles in the morning and then some sort of reps that kind of equate to 10k on the track just off short recovery just keeping it nice and chill kind of like what would be my half marathon pace the six miles in the morning would be again would be even more chill than the evening i think it's called like lt1 and lt2 yeah so you're almost doing in the morning you're obviously you're hitting your lactate threshold session but you're at the lower end of threshold for the morning session yeah a little bit longer reps yeah so six miles continuous all right okay so six miles at threshold or low end threshold and then you'll do the snappier faster stuff yeah yeah i think yeah like i haven't really looked my coach knows a lot about it i kind of just trust what he says um obviously i know it's like a trend this training method the newegian training method yeah it does definitely help and have you benefited us like incorporating it i definitely yeah i think but what a lot of people get wrong with it is they look at it and think that i'm just going to always do this training and i'm going to get faster but the reality is you do that training and it's there to benefit you for you to be able to hit like these vo2 max sessions like doing these double threshold days is great and you're getting a lot of volume in but it's actually there to benefit like my tuesday sessions yeah so you don't have to do like as much on tuesday it can be more intentful yeah and like that's where you can notice the benefit of it like i see there you've got two easy days after after the tuesday session you've got two easy days you've got the recovery on the wednesday and then a super easy day on the thursday so yeah whereas normally traditionally it probably you go three hard three times a week or four times a week yeah you have less recovery in between sessions yeah essentially and then saturday is a complete day off um completely yeah completely for me so when we when we're saying like completely because people you know people bullshit about like active recovery oh i'm gonna do like a day off an hour on the bike it's an easy run it's this is it anything at all nothing at all okay nothing at all definitely nothing at all in the winter maybe in the summer i might go out on a bike ride but that's literally just pure enjoyment um i'm not looking at heart rate there just kind of want to go out cycle for an hour maybe but in the winter yeah absolutely nothing um obviously i go out and like go out with my girlfriend go out with my mates and like it's not a day of like sitting on the couch and doing nothing like that's a day for my normal life I like to say and then on a Sunday is my long run where it's kind of like a bit of a session as well um so recently I've been doing like 50 miles on the Sunday with a bit of a like a tempo pickup at the end just to kind of increase the intensity of it a little bit and like by doing these half marathons like i'm running for 13 miles like i need to be able to run further that and feel comfortable doing it so yeah it's more like with a five mile pickup at the end but that's kind of how my week structured and like i do like having them easy days just because it just actually allows your body to recover yeah i like that so in regards to how many hours you're spending training a week what are you saying uh with everything that you've just said have you added it up before i haven't added it up but about 14 15 yeah i would say 14 15 hours because i did yeah i'd do a gym session on a thursday as well so i do two yeah so two gym sessions and what's that what's that obviously you said that since incorporating strength work that which you've started doing recently it's really helped what talk us through like a traditional strength session that you do yeah so it would be like obviously you got your warm-up in there like um s &c coach who's based at st mary's university like he he kind of sets all the program like and it would be year standard like warm-up bit of um like plyometrics um some technical lifting like he's got he's got cleans in there but i'm not i can't get my shoulders nice my elbows high so it's a bit bit difficult for me and then like you kind of like your squats your rdls or like and then bit of court at the end so it's nothing like outrageous nothing mental but it's just good way of like actually building a bit of muscle but a bit of strength and it's actually there as well for a bit of injury prevention as well like you need to your body needs to be able to tolerate the loads and like it's something like your calves need to be able to tolerate three times your body weight so it's a way of building do you do any specific calf work um yeah just like kind of like soleus calf raises seated seated um some isometric calf raise well isometric um holds yeah stuff like that just kind of i'm sure there's people that do a lot more technical but but the fact about me only starting it really in september um we can't just keep it basic and like we have some areas that kind of like are my weaknesses in my body and that's kind of my glutes in my lower back so we're kind of like encouraging building the strength around them areas because they're the areas that kind of give up the most give up quickly in the races interesting so you're doing let's say about 15 hours a week of training how much time are you devoting to recovering and like doing specific as people would say recovery methods so obviously aside from sleeping like do you do sauna do you do ice bath do you do massage once a week what yeah so i get a massage um once a week maybe if i've had like you know really hard session so i'd get massage either on a wednesday or a monday or wednesday sorry um and i'll maybe get another one if you know like after barcelona i got two massages that week just because my legs felt battered um just because you can yeah just on a half marathon yeah um so i do do use it sometimes it's more just kind of just to just chill really like i just go to my local gym um it's quite a small one so if it's busy won't go in but i've never really looked at it as a training method it is something i have wanted to incorporate but i was going to ask you about that actually so heat training yeah do you do any form of heat training at the moment um we when we go to training camps um we go to some place in south africa called potter's room um you call that heat training because some days are 30 degrees plus um but it's not like i'm in a lab where in like a heat chamber um obviously it's known as like the poor man's altitude isn't it um there obviously has benefits to it but i've never like actively gone to a heat chamber and done a session there it's only really when i've gone training camps there i'm getting their them level of heat adaptations and like there obviously is evidence that saunas do help and like that is something i want to do but it's just about trying to incorporate it into my day or into my life there i've got to drag myself because i go to two different gyms i go to my local gym and the uni gym which is where i do my snc so if i'm going to the local gym to the sauna like maybe i do one on the treadmill and go there but then it's like at the end of the day i want to finish have some foods um like as well i can be bothered and most of the time i can't be bothered yeah interesting uh going back to recovery points before yeah i forgot anything else that you kind of do apart from massage the occasional sauna no um you're a fan of the cold no i can't do ice baths i've tried it it's just not enjoyable and like again there's obviously studies to show a house but i just can't bring myself to do it like like say if you can't like if it makes me feel better some people love it i just can't do it i last about 30 seconds uh ice bath and that's it like i'm out there it makes me feel sick i'm not i'm not surprised to be fair but uh no stress is stress at the end of the day if you're stressing out because you're like oh no i don't want to go in and like it's physically stressing you out because you've the thought of going in an ice bath or it makes you feel sick then it's probably not going to be beneficial for you no not at all it's yeah it's just really not enjoyable like i don't like it so why force myself to do it yeah anything else um i've got them normal tech legs oh yeah um i feel like they're quite nice they're like how often do you use them probably once or twice a week um if i'm on a training camp i tend to use them pretty much every day because sometimes you don't always get access to physios out there because um they're they're not based out there but yeah if i'm on training camp i'll probably use them pretty much every day but once or twice a week mainly just to kind of like on a sunday afternoon while i'm watching the footy oh chilling them for about an hour it's just a nice way of just relaxing legs and if it mentally makes you feel better then it probably does and probably blacks his legs even more but other than that no i don't really take i don't even take like protein shakes or anything like that to help me recover i just kind of rely on getting the getting the food in to actually aid me in recovery that brings me on to the next point which nutrition like by the way with all this i'm just trying to find out where is your secret in all this i don't know i don't know if i come across it but uh yeah interesting so we touched on recovery there nutrition how do you see food i just say it's fuel um like i i enjoy eating i enjoy going out for food picking stuff up and like i'm not someone who would you know actively look at the macros and micros of it like as long as you're not eating like a mackey's every day like i'll say it's anything you're eating's fine like you want to be going to sleep like knowing that you've had a good meal and that's it as long as you're not waking up starving then that's probably going to help because obviously there's so many issues within running and within sport which is a shame like people have bad relationships with food but I think I'm quite fortunate where I'm able to just see it as as fuel at the end of the day and like I wake up have a bagel and jam for breakfast before my sessions sometimes have um some yogurt and granola but like i don't see and like actively count my calories just because i know how much training i'm actually doing and when you're trying to look at the fact of what you're doing how much calories you're being you need to actively look to put this amount of calories in if you know you're having three or four big meals a day then you probably are going the right way with it and yeah i just think that's probably like you're saying you're trying to dive into my the reason why i've been performing i think is it is the stress element and like if you can be nice and relaxed about everything that's going on with your training and your your lifestyle then that's when you're going to be forming like yeah like the saying is a happy athletes is a performing athlete i think something like that and if you're not if you're stressed then that's just going to take a massive toll on your performance but food for me is just fuel i'll eat whatever really just knowing that i've i've done the exercise to allow me to take it yeah no that's a good way of looking at it and like you say there's so many people out there that are using fuel and macronutrients for body composition and they're trying to get to a certain body weight or look a certain way and that's great if that is your goal and that's your primary goal but if you're trying to perform as well you've got to you've got to see food as fuel and eat a little bit more otherwise you are going to suffer some consequences whether it is stress fractures whether it is low energy uh poor sessions injuries all these things potentially could happen just because people don't eat enough so it's really cool that you uh look at it like that yeah like if you think about it like obviously i'm doing it purely based off running but if you're doing it for high rocks where you're doing loads of other exercise like you're probably going to have to top up and probably more fuel than i would because your body's working in loads of different elements here you're looking at a different like anaerobic aerobic performance like each and gym work like you need to build that muscle build that strength and like yeah like with the high rocks like you are doing all the different elements so everyone's going to be a little bit different but if you can view foods as fuel like i think that's just the best way of looking at it i think one struggle with running though in particular is the power to weight ratio and if you're lighter you're more than likely going to run faster yeah i've noticed it within myself when i uh i ran a marathon i trained for a marathon and i was like i'm i'm quite fit the effort for me to get fitter is a lot the effort for me to just drop weight and run faster is a lot less like all i have to do is essentially starve myself and that is one of the most unhealthy things that you can do yeah but it's the way that you could knock minutes off your time but it's not sustainable and i try and preach now because i learned so many lessons from that um after i did that marathon i was battered i went uh and got checked out physio said i was borderline stress fracture in my foot my nabicular i had signs of like red s so a relative energy deficiency syndrome yeah i think or in sports yeah i think relative energy deficient in sport i think it is but basically where you just don't give your body the nutrients that is needed and then your your body stops producing everything that you need so like certain hormones uh were down health was down and i was just feeling like shit all the time and this was after i'd started eating again and i was like why do i feel like this and it's one of them things like you just you can't just things take time your body takes time to kind of like rebound from stuff and if you're dieting for a long period of time like you're not going to see a massive benefit if you just have a couple of big meals you need to like eat calories and eat well for a period of time before you you start performing well um and like i said the the best thing to do is always fuel your sessions and i think studies are actually coming out as well where the most common occurrence of like injuries and the reason why injuries occur is because people are under fueling within their sessions so on your long run I assume you're taking gels yeah or some form of food I've only started doing that recently but I've noticed a massive difference like not only one when you're running but just afterwards like you do feel like you're not dying at the end of the end of your long run like I used to come off it knackered and not want to do anything for the rest of the day whereas now like I'm taking a gel like I've had a carb drink beforehand um and then you are finishing and you you're tired because you've you've done 15 or so miles but you feel like you know what i've actually had the fuel in my body to to be able to complete it and you are going to be knackered but like you just feel like you've got a little bit more energy and like that's what it is like it's a shame like how people have you know got like these eating disorders from like red s and whatever because they they don't view it the same way as i do and like you wish that people everyone could understand it but that's not how people work and like it is a shame and like i feel like there's been a massive push and like saying like the studies are coming out of allowing people to be knowledgeable about these areas um but yeah it's just you do have to fuel yourself and like being like in running obviously not always being lighter is better because you are putting a massive stress on your body and also with running like it's gonna affect you later on in life by like sacrificing a bit of a bit of food for the like the immediate to try and perform better like it might have long-term health effects and you don't want it to be like that you want to you want to try and be successful now but you also want to be successful later on in life and that's just like they say like you've obviously learned it and like may have learned it the hard way but it's good that you come out the other side and actually want to talk about it and because a lot of people don't want to talk about it but also just be able to understand how it all works yeah no it definitely did have an impact on me and i got off lucky like you know i didn't have a stress fracture yeah there's a lot of people walking around with stress fractures and it's due to not feeling properly or overtraining or just not not kind of taking on the warning signs that your body gives you because i think you're probably i think every elite athlete is probably really in tune with their body yeah like you know if something feels off and you'll probably stop what you're doing and assess it you won't just push through and keep pushing through because you know your body is suffering and it will show in some other form um do you sleep much yeah uh funny i was actually saying this to my girlfriend last night i was like we always get like nine hours sleep a night um love being in bed by half 10 asleep by 11 and then up up it just before eight and like pretty much nine hours sleep um it's kind of got that into our routine and you know we just i just really enjoy being in bed and being asleep because you just kind of switch off and like actually i've always been a very good sleeper as well so i fall asleep quite quick and don't know whether it's something that i've always from very young been able to do but like kind of like control my breathing a bit with that like to kind of just help me switch off and like fall asleep nice and quick because i also know that i've got training to do the next day and it's just a way of doing that um have you got any tips how do you what's your breathing routine to fall asleep because i know a lot of people struggle with falling asleep i so it's funny i start sleeping on the left side when I first go to sleep try and just slow down my breathing whether that's I don't counter just try and like force myself to slow it down and then I turn over to my right side try and get a bit comfortable there and then I switch onto my back and then tend to try and fall asleep within five ten minutes um just by having that little routine of switching from left to right and then right to up um on my back sorry just that's just kind of what I've done but it kind of just helps you switch off because otherwise you've got like if you don't do that you might have some thoughts going around your head keeping you awake and if you can kind of just keep relaxed and I I know a lot of people tend to switch off their phones before beds and try and switch off I've never been into reading books so I don't do that I just read articles about footy on the athletic and that kind of sends me to sleep as well and then yeah do that little routine and then end up falling asleep quite quickly that's cool i've never met anyone who is a pro athlete and like at the top of their game that doesn't say sleep is important i think that's uh that is one thing across the board like people especially in like fitness and endurance sports whether it's running whether it's cycling triathlon everyone's like sleep is a must why do you think that is i think that's just where mostly adaptations come from um like that's where if you've done your hard day hard day training and you're just able to be nice and relaxed like lie straight and just all your training can then start to absorb um and that's just where all you've also where your recovery comes from as well like i i take my calcium tablets and my magnesium tablets just because they help my bones and um i take my vitamin d in the morning um they're the only supplements that i do take and yes just it just allows you to switch off as well um but definitely i think that's where the recovery and the adaptations come from the most and if you can do that and just let your legs like fall asleep nice and quick then you're kind of set for the next day interesting um and do you do much mobility like stretching mobility what's your opinion on that it definitely definitely helps um the only time i would really do it is before a session or before the gym work i don't i've never never enjoyed it i've never done it so i feel bad like saying like i don't do any of this don't do any of that but it's like gone back to thinking if it's not broke don't fix it um yeah if it's not broke don't fix it but i don't really do the mobility stuff the only thing i'll tend to do really is uh a few car phases in the morning just to kind of wake up the achilles just because obviously they're like one of the areas that does take a lot of the battering um but other than that are they stiff when they wake up like a little bit so yeah just purely based off just doing the track work and a bit of speed work like i find most runners do tend to have a bit of tight Achilles and it's just in the way of the shoes are now there's a quite high platform so you're always going to have some sort of like rolling of it so it's and the achilles they actually i think it's the case for most tendons like they don't like the rest they actually like being loaded so if you can continue to just load it a bit like it does just help keep them healthy i think and that's what my physio has told me so i'm believing her i love that what's your opinion on treadmills i again recently started doing it because i didn't want to go out in the dark and obviously this winter has been a bit crap so i've started going on the treadmill for my double runs and i think they're good like whether it's made a massive difference in my training i don't know because at the end of the day you're just going for a run but i i do use them now i think it does has helped my training performance i think it does take off a percentage of load as well i haven't looked into a study but you just feel like you're running on a bit of softer landing anyway um but i just kind of use it a bit of time to listen to a podcast and switch off and kind of if you know you you're setting the pace to a certain thing you're not changing it throughout like it's just a way of just keeping a bit more chilled and like zoning out and just get the run done more than anything yeah i love a treadmill especially for um i use it a little bit for threshold sessions yeah just because you can keep the same pace especially like obviously you mentioned that you do you train when you go to the track you train as part of a group yeah as a group yeah so it's a lot easier to hold paces when you're in a group yeah but when you're on your own i don't know if you've tried it but it's quite hard yeah i hate it yeah it's horrible so i think in that situation a treadmill potentially could be a little bit better just because you can hold paces you're not setting off too fast you're not slowing down uh you just literally not even thinking about it you just got to keep up the treadmill and that's it yeah not fall off yeah and like you say you can have your drinks there you can have your gels if you need it if you're doing a kind of like longer session but uh yeah really fine and like i said there's no wind element there's no there's no you're taking out all the factors that piss you off when you're you're running around a track or or do you know in in the english weather that is obviously if you're somewhere else uh and talking about somewhere else you mentioned that you like to go on camps training camps yeah so altitude how do you find them do you like going to camps does it do you enjoy being in a different environment or are you a better performer when you train at home um i think i enjoy the camps because one i'm obviously i'm not working out there so that's kind of just pure focus on the training um there's we go as kind of a group of maybe sometimes there's it depends if we go with like the uni group if there's a uni group then there's probably about 30 plus athletes if not then there's probably only a group about five to ten athletes there with alongside my coach and like it's just a good training environment where you just kind of like for one month you just focused on purely training you're not like you're trying to like do unbelievable sessions you just kind of there you're you go to a place like either go to South Africa or Fontenot in France which both are at altitude so you know you're getting them sort of training adaptations there but it's definitely just like allows you to be a little a bit more focused compared to like when you're like training back at home but not necessarily all the time like I wouldn't like to necessarily make my life a training camp like going from place to place because I like being settled and not having to worry about where I'm moving to next or anything like that like I've got living in a nice flat and tense and like I enjoy the people that I live with as well and like it's kind of like the home comforts there so the training camps are really good for you to be just purely focused on the training and a different environment and like i'll probably still go on a lot more training camps as well now that i've got like help financially but yeah it's just it just helps being in different environments i think different sort of way of training and obviously you know that with the altitude it's you are technically getting body adaptations as well with the altitude do you notice a big benefit when you come back and you you kind of compete like if you're going away for a month say you're training altitude obviously your training isn't as it still is effective obviously you're still getting the training stimulus but you're not running at the same speeds yeah you're running a little bit slower maybe that is less stress on your body but obviously sleeping at altitude like there's negative effects of that as well obviously you get the adaptations from the altitude but then it makes your sleep poorer there's kind of a conversation that goes on an argument for and against altitude what's your opinion on it do you think it helps i think it does help yeah um and that's why i like i like going but i don't like always going um i wouldn't like to be there for a substantial amount of time because yeah i do notice a difference when i come back um when he's dropped back down to sea level um you do just feel like you're able to breathe a lot easier obviously you've been living out of two for a month it's gonna you get used to it but then you come back down you like fresh air but um yeah i do notice a massive difference for me i think it's it's weird because some people go to altitude and like they notice a massive difference being up there in altitude and i've never noticed like a massive difference going to altitude i only notice the difference when i come back so the the adaptation phase isn't like difficult for me but coming back is where it feels like you know what it may just be the accumulation of the training as well but i've noticed that yeah i definitely feel like you recover a lot easier after sessions you recover midway through sessions and you go to races and you feel like do you know what like everything was worth it so it does definitely help and i didn't know there was studies about the sleep not being as great because i've never i felt like i've slept bad only in a couple of nights where you know it can happen like it can happen here where i've like struggled to sleep but like yeah i've always been able to sleep quite well out there so i found altitude quite beneficial for me but i wouldn't like to be there all the time definitely not no interesting well with the with the sleep at altitude it's just about obviously the lack of oxygen yeah uh and oxygen that's why people use like hyperbite chambers because it speeds up recovery yeah so i think at altitude you tend to sleep for longer to make up for it so your body is naturally kind of stay in bed half an hour um so i've heard anyway um but uh no that that's really interesting a lot of people say altitude like the benefits of altitude only last like 30 days afterwards do you think you i don't know do you feel like the benefits last that long or do you think it lasts longer or once you've been to altitude do you feel like you you kind of reap the benefits or when you go back to altitude again do you think that you don't need as long as altitude because you've you've kind of experienced it before almost like you you train you've already trained that stimulus and it's kind of like muscle memory yeah so i think um i think it is right that You only accumulate 30 days worth of benefit.

56:33But I think the whole strategy with how people use altitude is that it's kind of like the accumulation of time you've spent out there. I know a lot of people go to altitude for X amount of time and then come back for a month and then go back at altitude. And I know it's like your red blood cells, that's where it has the massive effect on. but um i would say yeah definitely only lasts like a certain amount of time but if you've been able to bank the training and you become fitter there then you come back and yeah yeah the altitude benefits let's say are only lasting 30 days but you're able to continue training to a good level then you're still going to be able to continue your training benefits for for longer because you've had that time that 30 days after altitude to keep on pushing and training and then you're going to be fitter for continued amount of time yeah if that makes sense like you use the altitudes and then you come you come down you train keep on training all your race and you're just going to be constantly getting fitter throughout the whole time because it's not about pushing yourself it's just about the accumulation of it and i think that's what it is and why people go on like the multiple training camps or multiple altitude stints because they just rather than going there for a specific goal and the targets in the race at the end end of the camp they just kind of use it and use it as a bank and store there and then utilize it when they come back but utilizing isn't a way of training not for racing and when you're at altitude are you living high training low for like your speed work do you come down in elevation are you doing all your speed work at the same elevation that you um we're doing it for for where i go i've never gone somewhere that's like really really high so i've never had to drop down for training sessions it's always just kind of been where i think font and mo is like right on the cusp of altitude again um where like you start like you do reap the benefits of being up there so you if you drop down you're not dropping down to sea level um but yeah we can just stick there at the same altitude throughout i know there's obviously other places like i think people go to flagstaff in america and they live really high run really high but when they do their training sessions they drop down to a little bit lower altitude so they're able to do like their more hard training sessions and not be absolutely dead at the end of it yeah i was just about to say that i uh had the luxury of uh going checking out flag stuff nice um last month and when i went i bumped into rory link letter okay canadian half marathon holder and we were discussing that americans seem to go and live at altitude yeah and therefore they need to come down for their sessions because otherwise they're all their training would be at altitude whereas obviously you're only there for a period of time so you're probably not losing that much fitness doing your sessions at altitude but you said like english guys and european guys mainly do camps and that's like the main difference between american runners and european runners um but yeah what's your opinion on that would you would you ever like say training camps the the one because like you you like your life in london um or would you would you ever like kind of like move out uh maybe not to the places that you've you've mentioned because there's not much there but like like you know do you see it ever see yourself like flagstaff or anything like that where there is a town where there is a place where you could actually have a family and um i mean if like obviously the right opportunity came up and like that would be something like awards have to assess and like obviously it's proven that it does work so like that would be something but I do enjoy my life and like I enjoy going on the camps and enjoy like spending time at home as well but yeah if there was the opportunity where we could I could live there and then like maximize that then yeah 100 % I would give it a crack yeah kind of uh mixes it up though doesn't it like like you say you have an interest in life if you're doing a couple of altitude camps yeah and then you're competing you know traveling to all different places uh and then having london as kind of like your base as well like uh it's pretty cool um how how do you find being a runner in a city if that makes sense like why like do you think it's easier to train and live in the surroundings of london compared to where you grew up in the world um i think definitely like where i live now in tenzen like so fortunate that we've got bushy park richmond park and like the thames loop um thames path sorry where like they're just massive parks and you're able to do like all your easy ones there do your training sessions there and like for running that's that's great like and you're obviously not too far away from central either it's just like 45 minute train journey and i think um but compared to home like obviously the willow like it's quite a small place um i find it funny like when i look on strava like i've gone to bushy park and i've done like a six mile loop around the park and then i go back home and have to do six miles like i've run around the whole of wallacee where my town is and like i'm just like how is one park bigger than wallacee the town um i just find it that basically where tenneton is that's where i enjoy training the most and when i go back home like obviously you've got the river mersey there and you've got the seawall where you can run along which is nice but i just find it so much easier to train in london compared to the world and like i just think as well like i've surrounded myself with people who are running and like you've got the whole team around you at saint mary's university which like all like encourages you and like my mates at home they all encourage me to go and do what i need to do for my running like they're all all happy to see me do well and everything like that and like i can drop in and see them whenever but it just has that different stimulus i would say of being in london is just so much nicer for the training compared to being at home yeah no i uh i get that obviously having huge parks is a massive benefit but um i suppose it depends where you are situated in london really um but uh no it's interesting uh i'm from uh horwich uh bolton area and we've got uh rivington pike so rivington which uh is i think it's like the tallest place in one of the tallest places like in the between us and you guys in the world like liverpool way um so there's some rolling hills and stuff like that and i love nothing more than getting out into kind of like the countryside and i think that that was one of the reasons we moved there from a little bit place which was more urban um but but yeah i think uh it's definitely important to have a bit of greenery yeah massively like i i feel badly because my mum's obviously she's at home and like how often do you go back by the way so it started like I would go back quite often maybe like once a month and now I've been the last time I've been home was I actually went to a Liverpool game which was at the start of February Liverpool Newcastle but the time before that was Christmas and it's probably now once every three months I'd say i'll go home because my mom's tend to come come down here a lot um come down to london to visit so like we've been to valencia or been to barca like she would come out there so i feel it feels good like being able to see her and them races rather than having not having not having to go home but like going home and seeing her because it's like always just like kind of like a drop in visit whereas if she comes down like she can see what the area is and like we can spend time with like my girlfriend and my mom and i all like enjoy that element of it like it's nice for her to see where i live but yeah probably once every three months now i'd say i go home yeah that's that's cool and do you moving on to like how do you let off steam like is there obviously racing year-round because like you say you do track in summer you have a cross country or road racing in the winter are you okay with just the love of running and the love of competition or does the pressure build up to the point where you kind of need to let off steam do you ever go out have drinks with your mates and you know go on holiday with your girlfriend or anything like that and when do you kind of plan that around your season um so i've always been someone who like enjoys pints like i would say like now i wouldn't i don't drink no one there's like often as i did used to like when I was first in university or whatever but like if I was say like having a base I wouldn't go out for it wouldn't go for drinks like probably like let's say like two weeks beforehand um I was always kind of like stopped that before um with the season I tend to have like a week or a week and a half off at the end of summer where completely no running no bike and no level of exercise so tend to try and go on holiday around then um or maybe like even right before i've gone on a training camp like last year i went to new york for a couple of days before i went off to font and i was kind of like i still train there but it was nice to kind of just have that bit of a way time um but yeah i can just i do enjoy going out with my mates i enjoy going out with my girlfriend um i enjoy going like when i go home from see my mom like i don't always run when i go home um that's why i kind of use that time to kind of relax as well so I do like let off steam in a lot of different ways and like whether that's just going out seeing my mates for a little bit on a Friday night or Saturday night like that's absolutely sound to do for me like that's where I kind of am at I'm more relaxed with that and like my coach understands that as well like he knows that I have to like I need to be relaxed to to end up performing how important is the off time you mentioned there you know you spend almost a week and a half two weeks off uh per per year after the end of the season where you don't do any running how important is that to you why would you not just do a week of easy running yeah i think it's a way of like i think it's just how track season kind of works as well like you there's such a long build-up because technically you're building up over the whole winter and then you're kind of racing throughout and with track racing as well like you you tend to doing like maybe three races a week sometimes so and you kind of feel like towards the tail end like you are trying to peak for your performance there but you can kind of notice yourself like it's becoming a lot more harder effort to try and maintain it.

1:08:18And sometimes you will have a couple of aces right at the end of the season where you're not anywhere near your PB or you're not feeling anywhere near as good. So it's actually a way of completely resetting and having that time off just allows your mind to just completely stop and not focus on your running. Have your time for your body to kind of just relax and you know that coming the other side of this week and a week on week off um you can just start gradually getting back into running and then you've got the whole year build again it's just a way of having that mental reset and allowing your body to completely reset so i say it's massively important yeah interesting because i know a lot of people again probably comes down to an obsession with training like just will never take an off season i'm almost like that i've always got to have something planned you know as soon as the competition's over as soon as the season's over i'm always looking what to do next what to do next and i feel like i'm not progressing forward i think it's probably the self-development culture that we we see ourselves into in today where like everything's about how to optimize our life um you almost feel guilty by not having a goal but like you say it's better for the long run if you take time to relax because then you can put more effort into your season you have more drive more motivation and you get more shit done basically within your season um but uh yeah that's that's really interesting and like i say what comes across is like i say just the the aura and the confidence that you have and belief that you're doing everything right and i think if you believe that then it's it happens and it's you know with with your results everything's uh everything's coming into play especially like say this year by matching that that record what is what is next for you um so next is i'm doing bath half um it's actually the trials race for the world road winning championships which is in copenhagen i think in september the start of september maybe be august um so the aim is to come top two because i've now i've recently run the standards for it in barcelona so yeah next is bath half and then with aims to get to the world road running champions is that a flat course bath i think from what i've heard i've never done it but i've known people that's done it because bath's quite a hilly place and it's like in like a little bowl isn't it so the first mile is downhill and then it's flat and then the last mile is uphill so it's going to be pretty brutal that last mile but hopefully it'll be all right and then i kind of need to assess what's what's doing in the summer because anything now i do on the track i want it to benefit me on the roads kind of looking at a little bit longer distance yeah the 5k yeah and like obviously we've got two home games of the commonwealths being up in glasgow and europeans being in birmingham so they are the two half um two home games so i do want to try and achieve to go to at least one of them come with commonwealths will be cool obviously it's like massive events europeans will be hard but i don't see if i can put myself in the mix like i should be able to give it a good crack but yeah definitely one of my main goals is the world road running champs so that's kind of like main focus now obviously you've got the talent you you've matched that record obviously you want to break it i assume uh but uh that's that's where you see yourself going for the next couple of years yeah definitely more on the road more on the road and do you think uh the half marathon will be kind of like the the top distance that you run for the time being yeah you don't want to get to that marathon not just yet no it ruins you everyone everyone's kind of saying to me when you move into the marathon but i've only i've only done three half marathon three half marathons so like race half marathons like i did a training one and then manchester half and then barcelona half so i don't want to do anything further for the time being like i've kind of heard once you go up you don't really come back exactly like you just gradually get slightly slower like you know the if you once you can't keep up on the track you then like you say you go to the road and then you progress and the distances go up and up and up not that you're getting slower obviously you're not getting slower because everyone's getting faster and that i know what you mean though like it's i kind of see it as a bit of like bit of an end goal um end goal way like i've always done track racing and i still want to continue that and i feel like marathon you've got to respect it and like you've got to put so much training in to do it like and i don't want to give up on the shortest distances just yet whether like i'm just doing them as like training efforts and races or whatever but yeah definitely unless there's like a complete natural vision of progression where it looks like i'm going to be able to go run a mental time over the marathon but i just can't see that yet so i'm not looking at it i'm sticking to the halves and 10k is definitely on the road for the next few years oh that's cool i feel like they're uh they're much more fun and probably a little bit less taxing as well yeah you probably like you say a couple of weeks to recover rather than maybe even the top guys they're not hitting many marathons per year are they three or four max isn't it that's that's max so uh no racing more regularly would be would be definitely more fun um i want to move on to like just some final like quick fire questions um what's your kind of go-to carb meal like you know you've got a big you've got a long run on a sunday you've got a race or whatever the night before what you're having um i always have chicken and pesto pasta okay is this like a religion tradition i've just always kind of had it before races yeah like literally just bog standard chicken and pesto pasta or like if i'm having to make it yourself yeah i make it myself um like fry the chicken myself that's kind of just what i've always relies on just because i know my stomach works with that um recently with before manchester half i had an ando's just because you know it's like going to be decent food and he's going to get the carbs and yeah and obviously you won that i didn't feel to win that by the way we didn't touch on that yeah it was quality like that was my first like proper half i did training one beforehand but it was quality like i i knew i stood a good chance of winning it but i would have thought the race had to be a bit slower for me to win it so and i wasn't like looking at my watch for the paces or the times of what i was going to run it was more just like rely on what other people are doing in the race and just kind of utilize my track speeds at the end and that's what i did do and so what do you just stick with the front runners until the last bit yeah literally stuck with the last you just smoked you're fast as fuck stuck there for i think it was till like the last 800 last k to go and then just managed to pick it up yeah i felt confident throughout the race but i'll say at 10 miles into the race when one guy johnny who i know quite well like um he ran like i think he ran a 208 marathon in valencia um and yeah he he made a move at like 10 miles so three miles to go and i stuck with him and i was just like i knew then that i was confident i was going to win as long as i didn't do anything stupid or try and do anything spectacular just rely on the tactics of waiting till the last 800 meters and you'll be able to sprint off so yeah it was quality and like i would say that before valencia that was probably the biggest win of a race i've ever done yeah and uh how did it feel to be in manchester obviously grow up around the corner like was it was it cool yeah it was cool because like obviously because it's a big half isn't it yeah it's big half and i say probably the fastest half in the uk as well if you get it on a good day obviously manchester it can be dodgy weather but like it was sound like there was a lot of people there like from my club back home as well who were racing like and like there's up parts of it where like you kind of run past each other i can hear them all cheering um and i knew a lot of people from home from school from the area that went and did it and like although i didn't know they did it until after the fact they were all saying like oh we saw you run past like it's quality so yeah it was quality to win it there and like it's always nice to do something like close to home because you're always going to have a lot of people watching you yeah now uh if you couldn't be a runner and you didn't do the job that you do now what would you do uh what what if you could do anything in the world like what um don't know because i've never really looked at doing anything else i've went before i came to uni i was a tree surgeon um tree surgeon yeah did that for summer how did you find that it was good fun honestly it was very good like summer like out in the gardens like i enjoyed that i enjoyed it was long it was hard hard work and i wasn't really running at the time anyway before uni so it didn't have a negative effect on that but yeah i'll do that i'll probably be playing footy because i just love footy i've always played footy i've obviously can't play it now but up until uni i played it um but i'll probably just have like you know yeah average life of working or as a tree surgeon or i was quite interested in being a state agent as well so probably do something like that and they're pretty too like contrasting yeah but it's just the fact of i was doing tree surgeon before i came to uni like i did enjoy that and i could see a future of it if you needed to as well that is amazing um but yeah no thank you for today mate i really appreciate it um do you think there's anything else that you can think of that people could if you was to give like one piece of advice to someone who's into running they want to get better obviously let's say you said your secret before was um just kind of trusting in everything what uh what would you give is there any other piece of advice you give to people um just being like consistent with your training don't try and try anything special like it's a lot better doing 12 weeks or eight weeks of consistent training rather than trying to do two weeks of really high intensity training and then you're being absolutely knackered for the next week so you have to drop back like it's a lot better doing it that way and just take note of what you're doing in your day i would say like that's where a lot of people can go wrong and like like say if you need to miss a run that's that's fine because you've had a stressful day obviously it's nice to go out if you've been stressed but yeah it's i'll say just be consistent rather than trying to push the limits too much because that's when it can go wrong no that's that's awesome and uh i wish you best of luck thank you the upcoming races because uh yeah i think i think you're going to do special things thank you cheers bro thank you nice one thank you