Jonny Davies - #013

0:00Jonny Davies, welcome. Thank you very much for having me. How's training going at the moment? It's good, it's tough. But I've definitely said it's like the most enjoyable training block I've gone through, whilst also being the hardest training block I've gone through. One of the big things we started at the start of this year, back in the last year, I chatted with my coaches, was about focusing on enjoying that process as much as we can. It's hard to enjoy the program when you're training in London in January, February time. Every day it's grey and raining. but um it's been really good really enjoyable and like getting like seeing that progress being made like week by week as we get closer to the race um yeah i'm uh in a good spot for it so you're training for the g1m ultra this year you did it last year how were your experiences i mean it was an incredible experience because again as you know in austin first off it's like running through soup there it's so humid and we were hit last year with a bit of heat wave in during the race so we got up to like 39 40 degrees during it so knocking out 102 miles in that under those conditions i was so happy like to go through that experience it was horribly disgusting and like again just learned so much about um strategy nutrition hydration just what what i need to get through to that place so from an experience standpoint like incredible um was it the first year they did that race so it was awesome to be just involved with it also didn't realize like how big it was so i wasn't looking at my phone throughout it i was just like there's um one of the lads was just holding out the live the phone for the live stream and he's like yeah we've got a live stream going i was like oh cool like thinking like no one's really watching it well after i finished i checked it it's like 30 000 people every hour on the live stream i was like oh man i said some things to that live stream i shouldn't i'm just like just joking around thinking it's probably like 20 people watching this thing um yeah man it's such an awesome experience and you know definitely amazing place to learn going into this year yeah so the people that don't know uh the ppn ultra it's a last man standing event what exactly is it so simple terms like a backyard ultra marathon but it is a backyard ultra marathon back ranch we call it um at the bear ranch in just outside of austin so 6.7 kilometers or 4.2 miles circuit every hour so you have to complete that and the remaining time is your rest time the race carries on until only one person is left or in last year's case two people left and a giant storm hit and they had to abandon the race course after two and a half days and there was just two lads running kiv and kendall who are back in this year unfortunately um so no it's gonna be it's gonna be good there's some there's some absolute savages racing this year and last year it went viral because these two guys were just battling it out for i think they went on 100 miles further than third place yeah third place was mitch amos uh he pulled like 120 um something miles and then these two lads just went at it the whole way and it was crazy because i like went back to my b &b i had to sit in a cold bath for five hours according to the medics to like because they thought i had a heat heat stroke so i literally was just sitting there watching the live stream being like damn these guys are these guys get at it and then i had a sleep and then i woke up and they were still going at it and then i went out for dinner that night and this storm hit and i was watching the live stream i was like they're still going and then there's a storm here i was i i've never seen a storm like it because i was downtown austin having food and like the restaurant staff didn't let us leave the restaurant it was that bad like this this i've never seen a storm like it the amount of thunder and lightning and just sideways rain but the streets of osuza were flooded of that much rain coming through so i was thinking damn like must be pretty bad up at the ranch yeah i didn't realize how because like you say you think oh a storm hit it and we think of storms over here as just a bit of rain this is what it's every day really yeah it is but like people actually die out in them storms like i think a couple of people actually died sadly in in the storms in texas like that time yeah they had it it was like that and that great texas plane like the weather systems through there are crazy like but good example the other week in tech the other week there it was minus seven celsius it's 30 degrees today like that the shifting weather patterns there because you get these big fronts come down from the north then you also got the gulf of mexico coming up it's like it's the weirdest weather i've ever seen because you've been out there like it's always humid no matter what time you go then every now and then it would just be throwing it down my brain so obviously not really hard to train for that when you live in like well manchester or london like it's not it's just so not british weather yeah and so you did it last year like you say you did a tremendous effort 102 miles like you know brought the 100 mile barrier which i assume was your goal uh yeah i mean it was it was definitely wanted to hit that and take that off the list there but it wasn't i wasn't being like right let's get to 100 miles and that's my finish line i was like let's just go to this open mind figure out what you know what if i was to do this again what would i want to have done better i trained really hard for that race um did a lot of i remember i remember watching you like you was doing you was mimicking like the race like you've done this time but i feel like this time you've been a lot more locked in is that the case oh yeah for sure i mean last time i was coming off the back of a challenge of the year but prior and i still had some lingering issues from fatigue to you know some issues in the body so i wasn't able to really like go go and like again i kind of just felt that i i had too many events in between i you know i did the austin half and i had a london marathon because when call opportunities come up sometimes like hey this would be amazing to do whereas this time i've just gone like absolutely nothing else like no other races no other ultras no other half marathons nothing at all just everything is geared towards this um i think when you when it's something that big you want to go that far you have to take it that seriously um and i think again with like if you're running a hard half marathon or racing marathon like it's the two-week tape beforehand then there's the event then there's like you know week or two after to recover really that's like a that's four weeks taken out of where you could be building towards some of that and again because there's such a specific thing to do like it's a weird distance to run 6.7k on the hour every hour you're running then you've got 15 20 minutes of rest rinse and repeat the whole way through then you've got to do it sleep deprived like it's a really unique sort of race to train for and so again like my coaches sort out other coaches who could be like hey how could what's the best way to program this and again there's a whole field of people who have different ideas for this you got guys like phil gore who just the absolute goats of this now who just seems to absolutely nail it um sam harvey as well and you know and they will have slightly different training methodologies um and again it's just figuring out what works for us because what works someone else might not work for me being the size i'm at so we have to tailor things around that way um but no this year we've just been since since like november we've just been really focused and dialed into it and again like doing our homework doing a research fixing any ailments in the body any mismatches on um or like the lack of symmetry on the legs we picked up from issues from the year before.

6:27And again, just really, just taking it seriously. And then going, right, from January until that race, no trips away, no holidays, no nothing. Nothing that's going to take me out of sync that's going to potentially prohibit me from doing my absolute best. So again, it's like 9.30 is your bedtime, get 10 hours of sleep in every night, eat this every day, and like tracking absolutely everything and being really on top of it. So that way, just got no leaf unturned. no leaf unturned no leaf unturned yeah um and just allow us to really just give it everything because again i would be so annoyed if i didn't give everything and i get there and you know i do really well but i'm just falling short if i give it everything in training i don't get the outcomes i'm not fussed about because for me it's like i've given it my absolutely everything i'm really proud of the work i've put in and i always say as well like the win is the work like that's that that three four five month period wherever it is you're building towards that's always the most important part because that's where you pick up your skills your habits your disciplines that you carry with you the rest of your life a horseshoe that says you got first of dnf it doesn't really do much for you in that sense you know yeah yeah so you've you've literally you're doing everything that you can yeah like you say limiting every single distraction you're getting maximum recovery in your training every way that you can like and training every element of it so how's the training looking by the way so like you like you said you're running 6.7 kilometers every hour yeah you have 15 to 20 minutes rest yeah are you is that how you're training for the event by like mimicking that are you going out for ultra distances just on their own are you are you still doing your speed work like what you how's it looking how's a week a typical week looking so at the moment it's weird because we hit i'd say there's a typical week the next week is the most untypical week we're doing um so we simulations are really important as we build up forward but also being aware that like simulations do carry with it extra fatigue into the system you know you're gonna need to then have a deload week after that so we're kind of doing three weeks of steady work so 100 120k weeks plus all the gym work plus bike work and then we'll do one interval session one tempo session within that and medium-ish like 20k run then a longer run 30k and then then we'll build so for 100 120 maybe 130k a week and then we'll do on the back of three hard weeks we'll then do a simulation so really got fatigue in the system we do these simulations the last one was a 10-hour simulation monday morning just woke up got left left at nine o 'clock in the morning and yeah every hour just went out and ran six seven k what we did though was really important was um when we're working with the sports psychologist he wanted me to write down my how i felt at the start of each round and even just a couple words and when i come back in after each round write that down and then what do i think about just because the hardest part of these races isn't running six or seven k it's starting a race every hour coming in feels great when you're running it feels fine i want you moving you're good it's being somewhere comfortable and then look at your watch when i've got to stand up in like three minutes time and go back out and start another race and also you've you've cooled down like i've had loads of layers on because it was a really cold wet monday and like all that sweat had like just cooled down and i had to go back outside basically really soggy and where and go like right let's do this again like where did you that for me it's like tapping into where where does my headspace need to be so that i don't start with that negative conversation when i'm lying there and it's two minutes to it's like cool right let's get let's get going like what training that process and just having that locked in because i'm doing it when i'm at home in london and i'm feeling fine i'm surrounded by you know my stuff it's very different to doing it you know say it's 30 hours into a race and i haven't really i've had a couple of five minutes sleeps that's when the negative talk's gonna start to creep in a little bit and just being aware of like okay where do i need to like we call them triggers like what do the triggers need to say what i say to myself what's that conversation look like and again big part of that is like writing down if i do have any negative thoughts coming in or any like compromising thoughts being like ah fucking you know there's no one really around watching it you could take a few more minutes here like really just being militant on that again that that's a huge part of these sort of races because again you can train yourself to run 100 100 miles you can change up all this stuff but if you don't have that belief built in and you don't have the mental preparation done for these sorts of things like it's such a head game you know you've you've run out of that before you're aware of how much of it is such a mental game and like coming into it with a level of self-belief is such an important factor because if you don't believe you can keep going hour after hour day after day you're not gonna same way that if you do have that level of belief going into it that you will like you're gonna your attitude towards it is going to be so different um so yeah we're just focusing really heavily on every third or fourth week is a simulation but next week we're doing one but instead of to get myself fatigued enough we're just going to go go out run a 30k come in and then start you know hit the rounds in the evening so let's do that at 6 p.m that way i can go through the night for 10 hours practicing after you've run 30k in the day yeah we'll just do 30k in the evening get myself tired so at least there's some fatigue in this is and rather than doing six percent six percent just like let's just get to the point where we're you know yeah hypothetically like six hours in and just it's a bit easy because those first few times when you're coming in these laps you're just like yeah i just feel like i've just been out for a jog and now i'm just chilling in my kitchen it's like no let's let's go for 30k let's fatigue the system and then on the back of a big week of training as well so we'll do you know i'll make sure i hit legs the day before i have a speed session they will really like fatigue the system and tax the body just so i'm going into it feeling a bit like oh i try to make it as hard as fast as possible and then we'll go and do that okay come in take 15 minutes and then just start with a 10-hour simulation there and that way we'll do it through the night so we can start practicing our sleep work because the sleep work is so important to be able to run well day two day three you need to sleep well night one so talk talk us through because you just said sleep work yeah you get 15 minutes rest yep and you're expecting to sleep in that time as well so so what what sleep work are you doing so it's it's i actually met with a sleep specialist who is familiar with this race format he's coached people through this before um it's fantastic so we basically have to mimic the worst thing is it's in my apartment and i can't use my own bed i've got a basically set up a little camp bed on the floor in the living room and whatever but use the same pillow like even like scented set on the pillow that is stuff that i would have in my bed at home which is upstairs at this point um and basically what side do i normally sleep on let's get into bed how can it's really comfortable how's that going to look in texas okay what kind of we you know underneath our marquee we need a little tent for me that's pitch black so i can get in there turn the head torch off five minutes before we get to the end so i'm already getting rid of light um stuff i listen to when i normally go to bed i usually have like a bit of white noise on yeah or all the rings um and so we'll again soothing stuff get in no like nothing that's going to keep us energized everyone in the team is really calm i get in get into the bed i always asleep with a little bit cover over so again put a little cover over and even if i don't fall asleep just the act of getting in that relaxed state is enough to kick you over and then i mean if you're tired not people fall asleep but doing the best you can like to just be able to fall asleep i'm quite good at falling asleep quite fast in the nighttime anyway but i really suck at having naps so i've got to i've got to treat it like i'm going to bed and then three minutes before the start of the next round someone's got to gently wake me up and what's the rules is the rules that you've got to be on the start line there's a start finish corral basically you have to be in there when meow turns so like last year there was i remember i think on lap three a girl was literally just standing behind the line and they go and literally the clock changed and she didn't realize she was on the wrong side of the line and the team like yeah sorry you're out like they're these they they are so strict to the air they're so strict that yeah even though she's there she wasn't actually in the side she walked up to it a minute before and she just blessed her she just wasn't standing there on the lines like yeah so they are really really strict with that um which must be because she would have trained really hard for that whole thing ready to go really far like three hours in where like i think she i think she's like one of the first people to drop which felt so bad but they are again that this format is known for being so strict there's no gray area rules the rules the rules that says you can't have help on course you're not allowed to pass anything to your team your team can't pass you anything when you're in the course once you enter that course that is it you're self-sufficient until you finish the loop once you come back in to your aid station where you've got your team your little 10 foot by 10 foot area you've also got like your three crew max three crew only as well um that's it are they allowed to run with you or anything no one's not allowed a pacer so the way the unique thing about these races is the people you're racing against are also your pacers and you're also to a degree helping each other out so i had times where like my head torch like would go on course and like i had to kind of wait for someone to come up behind me and i just run with them for a bit because i couldn't really see where i was going because of course course is pitch black like there is nothing out there you're on ranch in texas and there is like all you can hear is like ranchy sounds and it sounds weird like i've been i've been out there though there's like there's like snakes there's like uh there's some wild animals out there cicadas these little flies that just had this like it's a horrible sound and like you're just trying to like and you're just trying to zone out just listening to music like it's fine i'm just imagining i'm running around batsy parks it's all good but um yeah just being careful with like snakes there's like wild boars out there um yeah things like that so you are like you are quite conscious when it's pitch black and your head torch dies like you can't you literally can barely see the hands of a funny face like trying to run like a pretty loose course like it's not really a course per se it literally just like a trail a dirt trail surrounded by dirt like you know you can easily fall off it um so yeah things like that you're not allowed to be past anything even when the two lads were just the two of them at the end or the last night they were running both of their head torches went out on the course and there's a section where you cut a halfway point you actually do go past the start finish and they're both being like hey both of our head torches have like failed can can bpn give us a head torch like no and so they had to like use the one of the garments as like a light function so they're like guiding themselves around the course of the light uh from the watch but yeah it's like they're pretty strict and i think just upholding standards like the rules to make it officially like a backyard ultra marathon are that you have to but there's no ifs or buts that's kind of how it is and so knowing that like when i'm doing these simulations and training it's like three minutes before the turn of the hour right let's get up let's go on our feet let's get ready two minutes to get to my door and i'm just then standing there for two minutes being like right and then as soon as it turns out the door going like just back into it and again just just ticking through that over and again it's it's nice to do in during daytime when you're fresh doing that when it's dark and doing that when you get tired and you're fatigued you haven't slept and like the caffeine's wearing off and you really just are like that that aid station becomes so damn comfortable it's like what really is that could be basically a lawn chair in like a little marquee my thing that's not that comfortable it's like when you've been running for like 16 17 hours like it's really comfortable especially when like that's why it's the 70 of people i think 70 80 of people quit in the chair so because of that like i understand that when i when i first heard that i was like what do you mean people quit in the chair like you've been running for like that far and you quit in the chair and then i remember i remember one point i was like 19 hours in i was in the chair and i was like i can see why people quit the chair like this is really comfy and like my legs are so stiff i'm so tired it's the tiredness that messes with your head like the running the running 6.7k is not that hard it's a flat course there's not much undulation to it it really isn't that difficult it's just it's the running of anything is the nicest part about it because you're away from your team you're moving forward there's a little breeze as you you're moving through the air like it's actually not too bad the hard bit is where you're not running and you're sitting there and you can go i don't have to go back out for another round i could just stay here and call it a day like that that's the sort of thoughts that creep into your heads it's like how do you train that out because also you could you could then go okay well let's say i'm going to set a distance i'm going to go for what happens if you hit the distance most people hit the distance then go all right i've hit distance i've done that's my finish line there yeah i kind of saw that quite a lot yeah watching the the documentary back yeah a lot of people like i've set out to do this and then once they achieve it they might go one more after yeah after that it's it's not the mindset doesn't change fast enough to how far can i go to it's just like i've done what i've set out to do yeah i'm not gonna because you're in pain you can't really change your goals when you're in pain like it's not gonna happen but this is where i think it's really important having a team so the team you've got with you because i had like uh two friends from austin both accomplished 100 mile ultra marathoners and they were great and we that distance and i i said to them because i was i was medics were like like i was so even at that point i could even water wasn't even staying down i was like yeah i'm not in a good way here um and they were like we you know it's understandable but i think when i got my team's bringing everyone from the uk who's been with me on these other challenges before and they are horrible to me during the challenges not horrible but they're not nice is that you're gonna bring this down yeah yeah but the whole whole crew coming out who've been with me on running the london underground running the capitals and again they always have little meetings before these challenges and their meetings are like you we cannot like feel sorry for him at any point yeah the rules the rules like i remember during the capitals challenge like there was every hour every 10 kilometers i was like to sit down in the chair for five minutes outside the rv not even in it it could be raining they're like yeah you're not allowed in the rv until you finish the day and then i'll be sitting in a little like foldable camp chair outside and they're like yep time's up out the chair you go like come on we've got 90 kilometers to run today and there was no like love lost in there i could even if I was like not in the best of ways they give me my food they give me my whatever I need whatever treatment's going on quick rub the legs alright sweet five minutes is up see ya and I'm like you motherfuckers but even at the end of that challenge I remember chatting and they were so emotional they're like mate we're really sorry like they found it really hard because I was out there like battering my body like really like not in a good way and they had to they had to be like that because if all of a sudden I started being like oh yeah I wouldn't mind I let it lie down for you know give me 30 minutes give me an hour and all of a sudden you start negotiating with it and it just doesn't work a big thing a big challenge like there are rules to it and like that's the them's the rules and when you got a race like this there's no if you're not at the start of the start line on the hour you're out that's it there's no no negotiating that i suppose that's what you need you need the people around you to just be as hardcore as you are and yeah when you're feeling sorry for yourself they're not feeling sorry for you yeah they're gonna push you but if you've not got that like last year like you said you said that you've got your two friends from austin they were amazing they're probably a little bit too friendly oh yeah that situation if you want to stop you can stop like kind of to a degree yeah i said let's let's go into this attitude let's see how far we can go yeah and go from there and like it was one of those uh they were they were great they were lovely but again like they were being very they were being friends yeah they've been really good friends and in those moments you don't need a really good friend you need a really good crew and like sometimes well like a lot of times i speak to people who are doing big big enduring challenges i'm like you don't really want your friends crewing you you want people you know who are there to do a job who are going to crew you i mean i'm obviously really good friends with everyone from from my team we've done this a few years now but still like there's friend mode there's crew mode once we hit the distance of the day on those challenges yeah that's sweet we're friends then but realistically like when it's when we've got a job to do we're going for something like you i need to trust that they're like not gonna fold in even if i'm like even if you're begging i've been there i've literally been there like um my girlfriend she'll uh emily she'll uh vouch for me she's we've been to hospital i did uh 10 marathons in five days like this was years and years ago and we got to the last day yeah and i had like an allergic reaction i think it was just my body's way of saying i came out in hives yeah uh they they had to call an ambulance we went to the hospital they had all the bloods done and everything and then we got back from hospital and emily was like you've got to finish this thing and i was like emily i've just been to hospital like i'm not finishing this thing i'm done yeah and she was like no have a nap and then we're going out again yeah and you're finishing it and i had to run like 60 okay that night and that was like that was like when uh it was probably when like running one marathon a day was like the hardest hardcore thing you know 30 marathons i'd only looked at ross edgley i think doing uh 30 marathons in 30 days yeah that was like the only thing that i'd like heard of um so back then it was like you know 84 kilometers a day it was but now people are running that for fun oh it's crazy how like the ultra endurance world has just like yeah gone crazy like i remember obviously like like you say the the challenges that you've done in the past like they're obviously they're incredible challenges and now i feel like people are doing something similar like almost every week and it's like yeah i always always find that like it's sometimes it's not even like the distance is there's the story to it and then the person who's doing he's on that journey because there are some there are some psychos out there doing some crazy stuff and like it's i love seeing anyone of any level giving a go at a challenge because again it's such a step out the comfort zone no matter how good you are this stuff is always a step out the comfort zone it's always one step up from where you have been in the past um but i know i i find it fascinating and again like ross edgy was someone who i used to watch stuff and we did the uh the iron man with the tree trunk yeah that was one of the things i remember i've never seen that being like who's this jack dude with a giant tree trunk did a full-length iron man with this thing with it and i remember just seeing that and being like wow okay like you can be like super really yeah i think did he pull like a car around the silverstone yep and then now with the crazy distance swimming yeah obviously swam around the uk as well which is like that was just something that topped everything i think that's wild yeah yeah great um but uh yeah i i do i find it fascinating i mean i think it's just a case of like you almost i remember years ago it was there was it was just a small world of people doing this sort of stuff i think as well because it wasn't that much appetite for people wanting to do it like i remember mark beaumont when he he solo cycled the the world um like unsupported in god he was like 22 and he did it and that was back in 2008 i remember seeing that and thinking wow because he made it he self-filmed a documentary which is something and then in 2019 he did it again supported around the world in 80 days he didn't think 78 days doing like 450 kilometers a day on the bike and it's just wild i remember watching that and that was like 16 hours and the second he was off the bike he was in bed and like he was just eating sleeping going to the bathroom all on the bike it's averaging i think it's averaging like 25 kilometers an hour bear in mind that's going through like some parts the world where like there aren't really roads um and he was just in that like aero position the entire time and seeing that sort of stuff is like the levels of it and um but the old thing is what the really important part is like you know the why behind it yeah definitely that's that's what i think really captures people's imagination this sort of stuff and you know gets people behind what you're doing which for a fundraising for a fundraising cause that matters to you you know how you build momentum towards a challenge how do you get other people involved i think as well how do you make other people feel with it you know if you do a challenge where you know you're not really speaking to the camera much or you're just quite like i'm just doing it because i want to do it you know it's it's not you know people sometimes surprised when there's not like much more of a noise about these certain things but i think it kind of respects it more though like when people oh god yeah because they're doing it genuinely because they just want to see how far they can push themselves 100 but i think i was thinking as well like that's that's the athlete and you seeing that like not everyone's wired like jay did and you know in that sense where they're seeing like someone just wanted to do like something purely athletic in that sense i think with most a lot of challenges especially if it's like to get like the noise behind it or to get people supporting in that sense they're like again you there is an element of storytelling that has to come along with it so you know your journey to the start line of doing these things um and also as well when someone trains properly for this stuff it's awesome to see well i sometimes i see stuff like people just you you see when someone hasn't really trained for it and they're giving a go and their body's just falling apart and they're like i find it really hard to watch it's like man if you just spend six months training well i i find it really fascinating like you say you you did uh the ultra last year yeah obviously every event that you've done i feel like you've got more and more serious now you're looking at every single way you can optimize your chances of literally surviving as long as possible in this course like you say you're speaking to a sleep specialist you've got a sports psychologist you've got all these things like you would have never gone and researched any of these things bear in mind you're documenting it as well so other people can see it and they can get that education as well but you would have never gone to that if you didn't sign up for the challenge in the first place so it's like you're learning so much i think that's the thing is like every every time you set up on something like you say what are you what are you learning what are you getting out of it um you know it's not you know the the real benefit for me getting these things is like it's great to finish the challenge it's great to take part in them but that journey to the start line the becoming is so special and so wonderful i also i over index massively when i talk about content like that is the thing that's actually so special and that's where people can learn from what i'm doing and there's also what i'm learning as well i was thinking if i'm learning something that's there's stories in there there's there's stuff i can share with other people and that's that's me going through an experience i can then go okay well damn i used to think this and i think this like there's that state of change that is it's quite interesting for people's you know who are potentially looking at doing something maybe not on the same scale but it's a really interesting look into all this because again a lot of this stuff is still new for me like i hadn't really worked with sports psychologist before i definitely hadn't worked with a sleep coach you know all these things i'm finding how is that is it so like the sleep coach you mentioned before which you you just said like five minutes of rest with your eyes closed yeah maybe a nasal breathing whatever it is in your relaxed position might be the same effectiveness as five minutes of sleep yeah um was that from your your sleep yeah we had a proper sit down he was asking me like you know what's my normal sleep habits when i'm going to go to bed how long time do you usually fall asleep um you know do i am someone who like wakes up the same time every morning do i sleep in a little bit like what's my gym my normal process um how often do i nap all these sort of you know general sleep health questions and then we kind of had to build build around he's also where like he's like everyone's quite different with this like you know there's this different subcategory some people are they get into bed at 9 30 and they just fall straight asleep i don't i generally get a bit of work done in bed like i like to catch the rest of the day i also find it really hard to wake up consistently early like for me i'm i'm i'll never sacrifice sleep for miles yeah i'm a big believer in just like it's also one i've never had any serious injuries because i'm like always been like no i'm sleeping eight eight nine hours a night no you you definitely need that i think every every athlete that i've spoke to like parasizes sleep yeah i think it's the the number one thing huge um it's the only time you get to recover really the worst the worst thing is now is because of all the wearables and tech it's all linked in through to training peaks so now my coach can see like how much sleep I'm actually getting or like before he was just like oh well you know how are you sleeping and I'm like yeah I'm sleeping fine and like I maybe had like one or two nights sleep that week that were like not maybe bits that far whereas now it literally is like from the 8th sleep feeding data into the training peaks and he's literally like mate like you've averaged like 6 hours sleep last 3 years in a row he's like go to fucking bed at 8th because it tells you what time you get into bed and what time you fall asleep as well and he's like I was like yeah I couldn't follow the seat goes mate it says you're going to bed at like 10 30 i'm like says you've got netflix on here yeah what's going on um it's like why an activity morning um no so it's stuff like that that's like you can't really hide from data and you're accountable so i think it's massive accountability but i think the other other really important thing is when i'm learning about myself with these training blocks the whole thing is really interesting and it's really fun like i always think you've got to find joy in the process if training becomes really boring and mundane your attitude towards it's going to stink a little bit more i would say the only two things you can control is your effort and your attitude and again giving a lot of effort is one thing but if you're doing it and your attitude starts to slip and you're like fucking i've got this session to do here you're looking at you're looking at the week and you're thinking oh god and there's some weeks you look at it and go wicked like look at that week that's a massive week i'm going to go out and crush it i'm going to go and smash this i'm going to do this session here and i know it's going to be tough but i'm going to give my best effort like that sort of attitude is so important and go into them so for me it's like how do we find joy in each session so a lot of the time it's like changing up my roots but to run the same little circuit i mean on the simulations i have to run the same route every time so you hit the right distance but things like swapping up my roots constantly running with mates um right even just like because i live in central london just like oh i'm gonna go run past this like historic building and i'll stop for five minutes and have a look at it or maybe i'll learn and listen to podcasts about what this thing is here just just try and find little ways i can enjoy enjoy that sort of session um so that there is joy within it because the thing as well it can sometimes feel a bit too much like work you must you must get this as well sometimes where you're like oh it's not that i'm really excited this session is i kind of have to do this session yeah for sure i think probably like uh 50 % of my sessions are like that sometimes and that's probably yes it could be a sign of overtraining like when you've done a bit too much you you know if you're not looking forward to your sessions that could be a telltale sign normally as soon as i've had like a day off that resets me and i'm like i can't wait to train again yeah but uh yeah i think you've definitely got to remind yourself on like a daily basis maybe a weekly basis that you get to do this yeah and you should be grateful for the sessions because at the end of the day like we're living in other people's dreams like we get to exercise for a living oh my god every time i catch myself like feeling so a bit sorry for myself being like oh god i'm knackered here i'm tired here i'm like hang on a minute a little pinch myself moment like i'm sorry i'm a bpn i'm training for these awesome races like i'm doing what i wanted to do years ago when i was working in like my corporate job i was like hang on a minute no i'm sorry like i just gotta take a little step back in reality here like you know every time i go up for a run someone will be like yo what's up johnny like this is this this is a really special thing i get to do and like some often i'll catch myself i'll find myself on runs catching myself being a bit like you know a little down the dumps and someone i know will be like come over like yo johnny what's going on just like chatting i'm like it's such a mood lifter it's such a such a lovely experience when people do that um also yeah any anyone anytime you see me anywhere just come up and say hi i absolutely love it um but no it's one of those things that there's so much to be grateful for and i think as well purpose and reason behind doing these things is super important so by sharing that story and there's a level of vulnerability within that you know to talk about things that drive you motivate you it allows the people to connect with what you're doing and i think the most important thing you can do with all this stuff is like it's great to go after big goals and ambitious goals and big challenges but along the way lifting other people up and inspiring and encouraging other people is such a fundamental part of doing this and again for me it's always like that has to be at the core of doing all this stuff it has to be coming from a place of like i want to encourage as many people to push themselves hard to put themselves out there to give it a go that for me is everything and that's why it's like the run club they're starting all these initiatives because like for me it's all about me saying like yeah go after it and believe yourself it's like well i almost have to back it up and you know so whenever every time i go anywhere around the world i just like host like a pop-up run club and i was just spend time chatting to people and again it's quite strange how there's a lot of people out there who a part of them wants to give something a go but they're so they're so concerned and so worried about what the world or what other people around them might think that they're nervous to put themselves out there and give something a try or post that video or try not for a marathon and for me it's always like no guys trust me like the great stuff in life happens on the other side of just giving it a chance and giving it a go and so the big purpose plan everything i do is like listen if i can do this and put myself out there and give this a go and sometimes fail flat on my face it's okay like trust me like life is better when you give it a chance and start putting yourself out there and you never know where it ends up i love how that comes first like you wanting to inspire other people you wanting other people to be pushed outside their comfort zone is where you started and then you're kind of backing it up with walking the walk and doing the things and like trying to prove to people that it is possible go after your goals no matter how big they are like go after them and even if you fall short you probably would have done a lot better and learned a lot more than if you hadn't tried at all 100 you would have that's just fact yeah i mean like look failing is a fundamental part of success you want to be successful anything there's going to there's along the way there's gonna be so it's me listed with failures the entire way through and it's just like you can call it a failure or you can just call it trying like that's all trying is like falling short is trying like that's a part of it the only true failure is just not giving it a go and then looking back years later being like oh damn i wish i did that and i wish i did this and you know i always find it's always like people the the saltiest people the people are the most negative the ones that deep down they wanted to get something to go and they just didn't so whenever i deal you know deal with people you know and then i'll push back up putting yourself on the internet it's always some guys who you know what they just didn't give it a go and it just it's such a pain that there's like a level of resentment that sits a lot of people that they just they wish they gave it a go i never want some people to live with that and i always want people to at least at least they tried because damn you learn something about yourself along the way and you know and then they if experience is the goal then there's no thing as failure because you've experienced that you've tried it you've gone for it and you also realize that hey this shit's hard i don't want to do this anymore that's fine you can realize that that's a realization and that's completely fine as well um you or you might find that hey this is you know what there's something that i really wanted to do and you never know who you're going to meet along the way and i think what's the thing as well when you start putting yourself out there you start opening yourself up for so many more opportunities within life and it might not be in the thing you're trying it just be it could just be the case that you're building yourself into this person that does just put themselves out there more and maybe that builds you more confidence maybe that's how you end up meeting your partner or you miss whatever it could be just by putting yourself out there and uh and you know not being too worried what other people think no that's a great way of looking at it and like you said you don't know how many people you might think you know signing up to a 10k run or a 5k run um isn't doing much but you don't understand it might be obviously you might be gaining all the benefits of it but you signing up to that will be inspiring just the people around you in your circle whether it's the guy that you sit next to at lunch and you bring in a healthier lunch because you're training for something yeah and he's like ah i might go to the gym tonight the guy next to me is uh eating healthy you might spark something in him and then it's just like this uh kind of like conveyor belt of everyone around you conveyor belt's the wrong word i don't know what the word i would spiral yeah yeah a spiral of everyone like basically bettering themselves and i feel like that's probably a positive thing of social media because like you say we could sit here and say it's crazy how endurance events have just got more and more difficult and everyone's like doing the next craziest thing yeah and everyone's bettering themselves but that's evolution that's everyone's evolving everyone's getting better which is cool and it's creating a positive impact yes it might be i don't know though it might be making things like for example i was having a conversation with a friend the other day and people are now thinking that a marathon's not a big achievement marathon's a massive it's a massive achievement but because so many people are posting about it and doing it sure like they're then thinking oh there's no point doing that like i it's it's not a huge achievement which it still is and it's it's crazy it's just the standard of some people is like crazy now yeah i mean i think i definitely think you know endurance training in that world has definitely been a bit more normalized through social media yeah normalized that's what i think i think normalized i think it's one of those things that like it is you know a marathon is is a hard distance no matter how good you are at the marathon you know hugo you had hugo frighton here earlier again like an absolute savage who again he'll even say he'll always say like he's he runs what two is it 216 he just ran or is it two yeah around that cim and again like you see at the end of any marathon he's spent well the other guys the other end of the spectrum running four or five hour marathon they're spent no no one finishes a marathon feeling good like it's such a cruel distance to run um that's why it's such a big achievement i think as well people to normalize it or to talk down about like it's not a big achievement oh my god it's also it's my least favorite distance because it's so awkwardly hard i'd rather run 50k than a marathon yeah like this it's it's a it's a brutally tough distance that no matter which way you shape it or do it that last 8k you know is is is absolutely brutal and it's just finishing up with uh with houston there like you know how was that last that final that final stretch were you it was it was tough i was spent and i've been in the bin for the last month so yeah it it just depends on how hard you push yourself and like you say uh it's going to be hard for for anyone attempting that but uh no i i definitely think like people should really like it also depends what starting point they're at yeah like if people run marathons all the time then them setting up to another marathon might not be as impressive to you yeah but if someone has never run before and they're signing up for they're doing couched 5k yeah that's seriously impressive and that will be inspiring other people 100 and again i think because again it depends where your starting point's that where you are on that journey like i get i one thing i get really frustrated by sometimes people come to the run club they'll be like oh well i've actually it's my first marathon like oh it's not you know it's nothing like what you're doing i'm like no it's your your first marathon it's your perspective like that's a massive deal i remember how i felt running my first marathon it was a it was i was scared i was nervous it was one of those like even though i'd run 100k before i'd run a marathon which technically means you've run a marathon but it's a different race system i was like the actual marathon itself it was a big event because it's not just you know ultras there's not that many people who's there you start by most ultras there's a couple hundred people you go to the start line for marathon there are thousands of people and it means something to all those people they've all trained so hard and just to get to be there and experience that even if it's not a major just standing at that start line around all these people who've trained really hard for it it's a special experience and then you're surrounded by all these people who've worked so hard to be there no matter what what time you're going for whatever it is like it matters to everyone doing it because again because there are limited space at marathons you know then the annual annual events in your city it doesn't matter it's a big thing it's you know something you're going to remember the rest of your life like what you did that day and you have a phone your medal to remember it and that journey from who you were when you started to train for it to who you are when you cross the start line that's a huge thing that's a big that's a big shift in someone's life that training book for your first marathon is filled with so much uncertainty a doubt of growth as a person you're picking up these habits of consistency discipline like that's a really that's a life-changing experience to go through to go from so maybe someone who doesn't really run too much or maybe they're pushing out there to jumping up to a marathon fuck that's a crazy experience for people it's always like to say to people like who try and reframe me like oh it's nothing what you're doing i'm like no it is a serious thing you're doing and like appreciate that you're going through a state of change and it's a really wonderful thing to do because again you're changing but those are people around you are changing and like you're going to live without the rest of your life that you said hey i'm going to give this 12 weeks 16 whatever it is i'm going to give this a shot and give it a go and give my best that's such a great attitude for people to have yeah definitely And it's good that you're kind of putting that message out online.

41:06It really is, mate. Obviously, you've been in the ultra space for quite a while. Talk to me about your other achievements that you've done. So obviously, you ran the capitals. How was that? Fucking terrible, mate. I'll be honest with you. That was so hard. And would you be able just to explain? So just for context, so I decided to run between all the capital cities of the UK and Ireland. Technically, it was a fast known time because no one had done it beforehand. So we're just going to put this out of the way there. So it was 960 kilometers. I did it in 11 days, 12 hours, 25 minutes. So you started in Edinburgh, run across with the Scotland to get to Stranra, ferry to Belfast.

41:46I don't count when the ferry's moving. It doesn't count for the distance ran. It was that's the actual distance ran. So ferry to Belfast, run Belfast to Dublin, ferry from Dublin to Hollyhead, run the length of Wales and then Cardiff to London. and so that I did 11 days 12 hours 25 minutes and that was brutal I had a flare up with um something on my right leg on like day three and like my whole ankle I had a single tina sonovitis unless you ever come across it oh no I've never heard of it Ned Brockman got it doing the track run as well right okay you can't move your foot your foot's basically hanging there and it's the membrane around the tendon that flares up tendons fine because I had a guy come out with an ultrasound and he's like wow you got really your tendons look great they look really strong unfortunately the membrane that goes around it is almost like chafed through it that the membrane's basically got inflamed because of that tendon movement through it this is one of the things that there is nothing you can do about it so he's like yeah he's like i recommend you stop but ultimately you're not really going to do any lasting damage because your tendon's actually okay it's gonna be really painful and really swollen so it just was a case of like every couple of hours just pushing through it yeah so i lost the capacity to basically push off that foot so that point we just had to lock the foot in dorsiflexion and that was it and just use all the other muscles around you to overcompensate basically compensate for the lack of push off on that foot um which then has a knock on effect your other leg which then ultimately by the end of it it was just everything everything from the knees down was just so swollen like i'm a size 13 shoe i was running in a size 15 at the end and we had cut to the sides of it to allow my foot to just fit in it just because it was that swollen it was that bad yeah it was like it was there'd be no there was nice moments in it where like you know you're just you're just in the zone like i just change up my stride to like increase my cadence shorten up my gait a little bit so there's constant little moments of like let's try try this and try this and it's just constantly changing how we're running change the stride change the shoe change it or maybe the same shoe with different profiles we put like a heel lift in it we're just constantly playing with things to just even in my just to keep my occupied to be like right we've changed this this might work now i'm running i'm just like legs still really swollen really painful um but that's why having great team around you is is is like that you know there was so that's day three what stops you from just giving up like you you've said that you literally could hardly run yeah after day three but you've got another seven eight days where you're you've you've got to run and you've got to run what on average 80 to 90 kilometers a day yeah 90 90 a day average um what stops you from stopping like good question I think it was a combination it was oh like stopping and thinking we're going to retry this in three months time when you're back healthy I just you know what it is I was I had a rule before the challenge with my physio agent he's with me on everything he's an awesome guy so he comes with you on the trips he comes with me and all this other stuff yeah he's great and I have a rule I say I'm not allowed to stop unless I'm doing something that's going to give me permanent damage if there's something that's going to give me permanent damage that could be serious health so if I all of a sudden start pissing blood i got wrapped like that's a pretty serious thing because you're affecting your kidneys there or if i'm doing something that's going to permanently affect my ability to run and live a healthy life he has the power to pull the plug it's not only those things i'm not allowed to stop and we make that deal with each other beforehand you know we just we outline under what circumstance do we have to stop um one of them is if anything happens to a crew member so anyone in the team if anything happens to them because bear in mind we're doing stuff on the side of the road there's other cars going by there is an element of danger involved this um if adrian says i'm doing something that's going to cause myself some sort of lasting damage it's kind of it really we just kind of say hey if one of those two things the only way this ends or you finish it that's it i go yeah they're they're they're the terms of the deal it's almost like we basically it's basically a verbal contract i look in the eye and shake his hand and say that's the deal like that's it and that i've made that i've made the him that promise but it's also making a problem to yourself like i'm going to push myself to as far as i can go and also in my head i've spent six months training for this a little bit of pain for a few days i could put up with that i always think as well like you know a bit of physical pain when you're running like it's hard there's so many things out there that are harder in life there's so many difficult things you know that people are going through and i think to be able to do something like that and push yourself through it and it is i'll be honest it's really fucking painful like it wasn't it It wasn't what I'd describe as a fun experience.

46:12But I look back on that and be like, it was really hard. I didn't quit. Like I wanted to. There was moments I wanted to. There was moments I thought that when there's no one else around and I'm like running through the valleys of Wales and I'm just like, I'd sit by the side of the road for a minute on my own. I'm just like, you're like halfway through this thing. You're so cooked. It's like now, well, you know what? Let's just get to the end of this road. Let's get to here. And just that capacity and ability. And again, it's something that by doing hard things in life, it does build your resilience.

46:38so now when i whenever i get through a difficult phase of life i go well fucking hell if i managed to finish that and i felt that bad i'm pretty sure i can handle most things thrown at me now again that that's uh that's what real confidence is you've you've stacked all the evidence in your favor and so whenever you know people say oh why are you a confident person because all these things are like you know i'm really tough and again that that's i think that's a you know for anyone listening to this who maybe lacks a bit of self-belief with confidence it's like taking action towards that by doing things you then have that stack of evidence there you know it's not that it's like chris william always says like no not about shouting affirmations in the mirror in the morning it's like just build the evidence that you're a confident person by doing things that you say you're going to do and like i'm so happy i didn't quit even though it would have been so easy and i could have turned to adrian and like he was it was it was getting close but he was looking at my ankle and look at my leg being like i'm running out of ways to wrap this or strap this or do something with this um and again we just just kept on plugging away and you know it was it was unfortunate that happened but you know in the ultra world there's so many things that can happen that you just are so out of your control and again tina's anivitis it's it's not yeah i mean after after a week or so i was able to walk again and like the swelling went down but yeah for about the week after that i just had to literally lay in bed and like let my legs drain and it took it was about a week before my feet looked normal again because they were just so swollen has there ever been a time where you've said to your crew i'm done and they've persuaded you to carry on uh halfway across wales there's a point where the i'd done 30k in the morning we had 60 to go and it was like a real hilly day as well we started off um it started the day started with a downhill which made it worse because all of a sudden it just like the it's i'm fine with uphill because i get the poles out and just grind out and there's not there's just not much impact it's fine also i'm using my upper body which is something yeah um so on the down it's the other way around it's it's every step is so force and weighty and i could just feel that i was like that i felt myself slowing i was throwing up a little bit as well i felt like i was just being i felt like i was allergic to running because my face was so puffed up and like almost like swollen i was i was trying to see out my eyes i'm looking like i look terrible i feel awful i was like surely this is five days in surely in another five days i'll be so much worse and I was getting in my head a little bit over that and we hit the checkpoint at 30 so third way through the day I went back out again and I just couldn't I was just finding it so hard to actually run and all of a sudden I was just walking and I was like wait a minute, what am I doing?

49:12I'm walking on the side of this A road in Wales I just laid down on the side of the road for a bit and I was like yeah, I'm really good here and then they came and picked me up in the van and at no point did anyone on that team be like done because even in my head I messaged my agent being like I'm fucking struggling here I think I might be done and then i remember i put my phone aside adrian just looked at that just grabbed my phone and slunk down the other van and goes shut up and just literally just got to work and he like packed packed some ice around my leg got in the air goes right fluids built up so much around the tendon going all the way up now what we need to do is try and get as much of this off as possible 30 minutes we're going to keep this on here get try and drain it down as much as we can i'm then going to wrap it i've got another idea for a wrap and his attitude was just like oh no we're fucking here like we're committed to this like what do you what do you think we're doing here like i'm we're here with you to help you do this like just instantly that all that negative attitude i had was just out the window because their positivity just like overrode that and also they they weren't even like that i was there like basically like semi-upset almost like about to have a little cry and like they just didn't even acknowledge it and they're just like having a laugh at each other like kick it there we had a football with us as well they were like while i was getting iced up they all just went outside was doing keepy ups and just like having a laugh and i was in there being like all right yeah this is not you're not having a moment here mate like just just just yeah and to be fair it's stuff like that and then later that day that would be that we had to finish that day uh the brecon beacons and we had to get to the top of penavan was literally that days that the road took us up to penavan and where the distance was the end of the day i remember like considering how bad that day was we get to 60 something k and there was a group of lads from the british army who were based there who've been waiting for us and they're like right our job we're taking over we're getting you to the top and so we spend the rest that evening um with these lads they just marched me all the way up one was um a guy who races like 200 mile ultra marathons um the other another one's a guy called sam who's he may see him in social media he was really big he's now run like 66 minute half marathons like he's absolutely lethal and like got to me then their their energy got me up the rest of that and then i was like nah there's no way in hell we're finishing this now like so yeah it's definitely allowing like the people around me to lift me up that's such an important factor because again there's nothing we do as much we be like yes me doing all this work and grinding away it's like it's a team effort there is so many people around to make these things happen um and their absolute belief in me and that but how how that that they bring that across you that that such positivity i'm like well fucking hell they believe in me i better believe in myself and when you're in those moments where you're catching yourself low that does really help so knowing that going into this last going into last man standing i'm like oh having them there and when i know there's gonna be moments say we get into day two and i'm just absolutely good i'm feeling sorry for myself because on that course you're in your own you know you can't come back in i could be like i think i'm done guys i know exactly what they're going to be like yeah they'll almost take the piss out of me for thinking that and be like laughing at me and i'll be like yeah i'm going back out for another round aren't i like i just know that's how it's going to be and like i'm smiling about now because like i know i'll find it funny because i'll start running i'll be like this you know i'll be running i'll be like it's kind of funny let's be fair like they like the situation is hysterical like i'm running straight for 200 miles now and like they're just not letting me quit like i do i find this i think in those those scenarios that are so ridiculous i think it's really important to find humor um obviously it's a little different bpm quite a serious brand a lot of lads running are quite serious i remember last year me not there was moments where i found it really tough i just turned to humor and like you know trying to find trying to find the air i feel like people get through pain in different ways and like say if you're if your way of getting through it is having a bit of a laugh like yeah for me like if you're smiling or laughing laughing it takes all the pain away yeah like it still does hurt don't get me wrong but like you you might as well you're doing it anyway you might as well laugh and smile about it rather than be serious and you know think that you're going to war but uh yeah like it's it is serious but it's also not that serious yeah i would say like take what you're doing seriously just don't take yourself too seriously like yeah that's a good way it's like i'm i'm committed to these things of course take it seriously like i'm i'm training you know you're doing everything to do all this stuff here like i'm so committed to it at the same time you know i'm not i'm not i'm not storming the beach in normandy i'm not a viking like you know it's it's a little bit a little bit different here um it's it's a privilege to be able to get to do it and i always remind myself of that and like what a what a wonderful thing i'm gonna be able to look back on in years time to be like talk about like stories to grandkids and yeah all these like i've got some pictures being made up at the moment from like different challenges and stuff like that that like i've never kept much i've kept memorabilia but i've never put on the walls anything i've got on the wall is bloody horseshoe i got last year that's the dnf that's the only thing i've got on the wall because i was like because it was really easy to put the wall there's already a hole in it so i've moved to my new place there's already a screw i go horseshoe goes on there so i'm getting a few things sorted at the moment it's like it's really cool to see i went to a shop framership the other day and i had like the original map for the uk that i just drew all the routes across and just the distances and then when i finished it i wrote doubt me now on it and i gave it to him and he's like he's like asking me questions like what is did you cycle this i was like no mate i ran it and he's like i'm telling the story and just like things like that it's like and again through through that sort of storytelling you know brought me closer to him and like you know there was a bond over that i just think all these amazing experiences how great it would be to be able to look back on this in 10 20 30 years time and tell and tell my kids or grandkids like i say that's why i love documenting it that's one of the reasons why we do youtube because when all this is over yeah you have something to look back on and it's kind of like a dear diary yeah but in the video format but what what got you into all of this like was there something that inspired you was a like for me getting into the ultra marathon stuff uh i feel like i'm a classic davy goggin's got me yeah into i've listened to him on joe rogan then i i listened to his book and i was like i'm gonna run a marathon yeah and then after that he was like i'm gonna sign up to an ultra marathon and then it kind of pushed me what was it like for you i think there's a few few elements because i got into like strength training first as like my first big background like i was i can tell by the way you are looking pretty skinny at the moment but uh i'm i'm sub 100 kilos at the minute all right i'm actually feeling a bit well what are you normally walking around at like 100 yeah around that um i'm 90 and how much how tall are you six foot four so 194 centimeters yeah so you're a big ultra runner i'm a big guy yeah yeah you've But you've got a lot of load going through them legs.

55:31There's a fair amount. That's also my fueling is the most ridiculous. I did a metabolic test the other day and it was at zone five for an hour. I burned 1800 calories. 1800? Yeah. No way. So I can't do it. I can't sustain. There just isn't enough. If I had to try and sustain, like even zone four is like 1500 calories. Like my zone two is a thousand calories an hour. Oh, a thousand calories an hour. Yeah. That's crazy. So when... Sorry, we'll go back to another point. No, no. So how many calories do you eat in a day, roughly? Oh, mate. I'll be losing weight at 5 ,000 calories easily. Like, oh, yeah.

56:05Even like I posted the other day, I went for a 30K run. I had eight gels, eight go gels with me. And someone's like, bit of overkill there, mate. And I was like, that's actually me under fueling. Yeah. Because I did it at like a zone three as well. So I was like, that's... Realistically, I should probably have had a... I mean, I hammered a couple before. I brought them with me and yeah, like going, going through them. So my, my problem is marathons is the only way I can run a marathon is literally like zone two, zone three. Cause if I'm going zone four, I just, I, I can't digest it. Yeah. I can push myself to about 180 grams of carbs an hour.

56:34180. Yeah. Right. Okay. More than that. It just falls right through me. So do you think, obviously the science says that it's anywhere between at the moment, 60 to 90 grams per hour. I know the people are pushing it to like 120, 150. Yeah. but would you being a big bigger person say from experience yeah that if you're a bigger person you i assume your digestive system is bigger it's bigger yeah and you can take on more 100 you've got um your small intestine is bigger there's ways that you're absorbing things through there are larger different uh your glucose receptors and you've got more of them like you also you just are naturally used to eating more food and processing more food like there is that that does scale and you can train it obviously like you say you've been training it and i think ultra running is definitely a hack whether it's ultra running where you do one day events or whether you do probably more so when you do multi-day events when you're eating so much and you've got to eat anywhere between kind of like six and ten thousand calories a assume you was eating on these big days and we did ten every day and ten thousand every day i woke up hungry every morning yeah yeah and you're training the gut throughout all that so you're training for it and you're eating whole foods it's not like you're having 10 000 calories of just carbohydrates or gels you're probably having meal deals you're having sandwiches you're having anything that you can get your hands on pizza whatever it is those days those days are crazy like the boys would make me in the rv like a big the bowl normal bowls weren't big enough to make these like chicken pasta things that i wanted so they literally just use like a salad tossing bowl and it literally it literally looked like something that was for like a family of eight and then i just for the last like 5k of the day i'd like walk with my giant bowl of pasta and chicken and like it's like a tomato mascarpone sauce it's also a pack full of calories absolutely banging and i'd just be there walking on the side of the road my giant bowl of pasta people pulling up being like what is this doing happiest man in the world only got 5k left of a 90 kilometer day eating pasta hammer two like the only first time since i was 16 years old that i had mass gainer shakes those things are insane because you can literally have about a thousand calorie plus in a shake and it's like the sweetest you know like most protein shakes you can kind of taste it's a protein shake yeah make these things are unbelievable like it generally was just i was like that is the thickest thing i've taken that take that then i'd have like some greens powders i remember looking at like the ingredients list for the mascanism it's got like it's got like wax maize and all like basically it's all like full of obviously it's got as many carbohydrates shoved into it but then it's got all the oils in and everything else everything and i'm not gonna lie it's fucking delicious like it was honestly just so tasty especially after like you spend like 14 15 hours on your feet all day like you know and again it goes down like just stuff that's easy to digest it's like um oh i said sorry um welsh welsh bloke who had broke like the consecutive iron man records um rob ginger guy which you know his name will come to you in a minute he told me the hack he was doing he was basically he'd blend every meal and he'd also drink pints of pints pints of uh double cream just to get the calories in he's he did 100 i think 115 consecutive iron man a row and yeah he would he's like anyway i can i can eat this and what calories is i just have to blend everything so you blend like a roast dinner and just drink it and then how it goes i don't think i could do that a roast dinner a roast he'd blend a roast dinner and then he would just drink on the bike he'd not run he's running because it's a churn too much but on the bike he could drink pints of double cream and because he'd be I do not recommend doing that when running because you guys trust me that will come up.

1:00:04But anyway, sorry, we deviated. You went from... I'm just intrigued with how much you eat, to be fair. No, yeah. What inspired you? Two things. When I was... I had a really shitty incident when I was 16 years old. I got jumped when I was 16 badly. So it's one of those things I never really talked about too much. But on my face, it always looks I'm a little bit tired. I got bags of my eyes. There's not. I got like the shit kicked out of me. And so I had these like scars under my eyes there. and i remember this happening like i was out with my mates got me pissed up got separated from my mates and basically some lads from another town whatever it is we had a bit of a kerfuffle before saw me and like i made gone absolute hiding i remember that happening i wasn't i played rugby at school when i was like playing club rugby but i wasn't particularly big or particularly that strong i was also only 16 years old so i hadn't like fully developed and i remember that moment being like oh i don't want that to happen again so i was like right from that moment onwards i I decided like two weeks later after I recovered, because like my face was fucked up.

1:01:02I got properly into weight training. I was like, this is the start of how it's going to go. And that I stuck with all through 16, 17, 18, 19, 20. I would go gym pretty much every single day. I became like so into it and like getting stronger, getting bigger. And that helped then with rugby, which went back to when I was at university. And that and then boxing as well. So I got proper into it because I was like, look, now I'm a bit bigger. yeah you need to learn how to fight now you're gonna need a fight and i everyone thinks they can fight and i remember to this day like the the most embarrassed i've ever been is like rocking up from first of a session like cambridge abc shout out arby road um and just absolutely school like these run most of these uh two like cuban old boys and mate i was i've literally i've never been more confused in my life just how i was like how they move that fast like how is how is anyone doing any of this stuff but that was also the first time i learned how hard you can actually train because they're lads have been thrown up left right and center i've never really seen that rugby people throwing up maybe if they're hung over and like you're playing the game the next day but like at the boxing gym just from round work or from the just just just how you had to operate in order to look after yourself and defend yourself um i was heavy lad so i was a heavyweight um and a boxer and like the the only other bloke in my club who was a heavyweight was like the nastiest man i've ever met in my life still to this day i've never met anyone meaner than him um and so yeah so my aspiring partner was literally like the biggest piece of shit in the world and it was really good because he told me like i was like this guy said he was actually horrible it's cool he's in prison now so like i've kept tabs on him he's probably not listening um no he was he was horrible um and yeah he would like he would just say the most fucked up things but he would also do things like we'd be sparring he'd knock me down and then he would just lump me on the ground and i mean he'd be like that's how it works in the real world i'm like yeah but mate we're boxing this is a sport so literally like bullying basically trying that but so i was like i was like wicked um uh but you know he was after when you get back up and he's like no that's that sound mental like completely insane like but that also taught me you know how to handle yourself give you a bit of confidence and also what hard training looked like i thought i knew what hard training was by lifting weights to the gym then you can do that and it's like i there's little little bit of weight is that fuck all for my ability to like to push myself hard to sit at that like zone five and like still be able to throw punches and move around and like even like things like how to move your body properly how to be light in your feet so like getting to skipping i mean i wish i filmed myself doing this when i was like 18 19 years old like you've never seen i've never to this day seen a worse video of someone skipping as how it was the first six months because i just i just didn't have that bounce or the rigidity within my tendons and my feet so i'd be able to just like effortlessly move up and down it was a proper like yeah and so even to this day i always i chuck in a bit of rope work a couple times a week just to still because it helps with running as well it's like coordination and balance and movement um and it's just so that was such a wonderful time to build up strength build up courage to build up um a bit of self-belief as well but one thing i hated with rugby training and with boxing was running like it was the thing about i just hated it i was like i would rather do anything i'd rather do rope work absolutely fine this idea of going out and running i think it's because i was a bit bigger it was always the thing i found i was weakest at my top mc was absolutely fine with rugby because he has so much like so much high-end work but it's also i think it was because in a lot of sports running is framed as the punishment so with rugby if you like in training miss a tackle drop a ball whatever it is you have to run to the post and back as fast you can it is a punishment for that and my attitude towards running was oh it's you always just do it as fast as you can giving absolutely everything you've got and it's also drilled into you like it's the negative thing to do like yeah you've messed up you go run whereas um it took me until um a knee surgery in 2017 from rugby um and when i was recovering from that i got into cycling because it's the only thing i could really do cardio wise i couldn't run i couldn't do anything change direction i'm getting into cycling was really cool because i was like oh this is this is quite a like you know a bit of an engine going now like this is maybe maybe i should probably at some point transition through i probably don't want to be playing rugby anywhere near into my 30s because no no one i mean it's a young man's sport um and got to 2020 i was uh i was i went to a work trip just before covid happened to vancouver and i fucking read david goggin's book and uh it's exactly the thing happened and i remember reading this i was on this uh i was out in vancouver in january and um i remember went out i didn't have a seat my bike with me all i had was a pair of like little rugby shorts it was bloody minus two outside i went so i was like you know what david goggins can run i can run i went out for a run i went around the sea wall in vancouver beautiful beautiful spot in the summertime not so much in this time of year um and i was just like now this is i don't know i just went out because i remember him in the book being like talking about like going out slow like not pushing it too hard each run and i did that and i was like nah something to this i can i can then hope it happens the gyms are closed i was like might as well keep running here and that's literally how it came about it was not a uh i had no like great desire behind it it was also a case of trying to rewrite that story in my head being like running is like i'm not built for it it's like something it's like it's not whether you're built for it or not it's whether you practice it or not whether you work it or not and again like i think it was also a case of like being a little not being so confident around it i think by everything in life you want to gain confidence you stack some evidence behind it and for me it was like if i go out three or four times a week and just trot through the motions and just keep it easy i think i did like a year of easy running because also with covid happening there was no races were allowed so there was no purpose behind the running other than to get better at running which i thought was a real big blessing because there's no pressure to go run uh at 5k 10k half marathon marathon when everything had sort of like finished and open started open up again the first thing i signed up for was 100k so i was like so that was the first race you did 100k yeah yeah so my my understanding of what like a like an expo is was literally the morning of the race thames path 100k there's like a bloke a little desk handing out the bibs and it literally it was called the expo and i was i was like oh this is an expo is there literally so yeah my first proper race was 100k and i was like cool i was like okay no because at that point i was i didn't have a coach or wasn't really following a plan i was right on my own plans because i thought shock on your best didn't um i would go out and run like a 50k every the weekend just to get into the habit of doing the hard thing i was in my head if i can run 50k then when i get to 50k in the 100k race it's only 50k to go and i've already ran that so it's not it's not it's nothing new which obviously isn't you it's two times 50k it's like it's like saying i can run a marathon i've run a half marathon and then thinking that the second half of a marathon is just as easy as the first half of the marathon same thing applies with 100k race with 50k so um yeah but i see that logic because a lot of people think that yeah i mean it worked i mean i deluded myself enough to think i could do it so that went out yeah and since i did that and i was i finished i was like now this is this is there's something about this i really really love what was that feeling that the end of that first race euphoric because like all my mates had come to support me it was from putney to henley so party's in london henley's fucking miles away and it's the thames path it just follows the whole way um honestly euphoric all my mates they're like what time you're gonna finish i was like honestly i have no idea so they spent the day in henley getting pissed so by the time i got to it's like the last bridge you crossed towards the finish line they were all there on the bridge hammered and i just seen like eight or nine of your close mates my dad was at the finish line like all there like obviously helped that they were like eight pints deep um but it was honestly one of the surreal moments because it was like just starting to get dark as well and it was like you know you've got that mode there's look that i always think the little moments you get before a finish line of achieving something it's always good to have a little alone time i did it with like the london undergrounds for the capitals i just have like a little couple minutes to myself and i'm just like just stop for a second and just like soak it all in be like you remember to be really proud of yourself for doing this like don't don't don't act nonchalant like this is this is a big deal it matters you you've worked hard for it like remember this feeling because the moment will pass that you've been able to remember is the feeling of of this is what working hard towards your goals and then achieving them feels like and that's a really special thing to do so we've had that little moment and you always try to have that like just at the end of the race i think throughout these things it's good to have but like when i can see the finish line yeah i always gotta have a little moment and i think i did it then i did it for the london underground was like the last the last day was like the biggest central line we're coming up to the last stop which is back into central onto oxford circus and we had a big load of people running with me and i sent everyone ahead to basically build the finish line and stop all the traffic around oxford circus and um i just stopped there i had a little chat like a little color with my team who was with this and then they then went ahead and i just sort of kind of said there for a second i was like looking down i could see like a couple hundred people basically stopped all the traffic of oxford circus i'm just there like ah no you've done all right here like you've patting pay something back that's one of the things i think i've often found it very difficult is to feel pride in myself and so that's something of all as it's something i've struggled with i make a big point about when i when i achieve something even if it's like a successful long run in training i'll just be like now you've done a good job like it's not just a ticking box exercise it's like just get another brick and just to take that moment to appreciate it because i think as well because a lot of as these things become a bit more normalized and people are doing these big heavy trading blocks it can often feel like the sessions are just like oh ticking off tick off tick off it's like no no if a session has been hard if something you've if something has challenged you and you've managed to overcome it like take the moment to appreciate what you've done because again like you've got to celebrate the work the outcomes they happen you know if you do enough work that generally speaking the outcome will happen so it's like don't celebrate don't chase the outcome of like chase the success in the work and it's so much more fulfilling because again it goes back to that point of you it's the becoming that's the really important part it's it's all that stuff and if you ignore the becoming if you only focus on i want this time here or this race here or this thing here and ignore everything else and just you know just keep my head down and not appreciate actually like all this actual work is the stuff that really matters and so no it always takes that little moment to be like especially when it's something that i kind of came up with as well like the big there's all these challenges i didn't i've kind of do just like have a i've a like an ideas book i've had for years and i just every time i see i put something together i'm like and that could be a pretty mental idea to do that like how would how would it be to do that or like why would that be difficult and the london underground something i'd have written there years ago yeah explain that to people so yeah so yeah another wonderful wonderful challenge i am i had this idea to run basically it started out because i wanted to see how quickly i could run the victoria line because there's a tube line i take which goes like brixton all the way up to walthamstow man i know i know also i know all the tube stations 272 of them around london 11 tube lines um i've become a train nerd in the process of doing this like i promise i don't really like trains that much but in the process of running the entire london underground you kind of become the train guy and now i have like an in-depth knowledge of the London Underground, they were kindly enough to like invite me to loads of things because they assumed I'm really into trains.

1:11:57I'm like, yeah, they're great in everything. So you've got like train watching. I've got such deep train law knowledge now. Like it's actually unreal. So yeah. Have you got any fun facts about trains? Oh, mate, there's many of them on there. Many London Underground facts. So yeah, London Underground, sorry, 11 lines, 572 kilometers in total, uh 272 stations and i basically ran a tube line a day because 11 i was like sweet the idea literally came out i ran the victory line to see what happened and the video went mental and the comments people were like why didn't you run the whole thing so i was like oh okay let's give this a go and i'll try this and i just signed with lululemon and they said oh what are your big goals come up and i was like really confident he was like i'm going to run the entire london underground i'm gonna invite people to come do it with me and make this whole thing out of it and they're like oh cool like it sounds like you know what you're doing here obviously i didn't i just kind of like making as they went along and they really believed in me so i was like okay let's do this thing and i had a live tracker on me the entire way so at any point anyone could join me and throughout the entire 11 days i had people with me who just would come find me and run this thing with me um which is like at some points like really lovely when like you know there's a couple people other times there was like on the last day there's a point there's like 350 people running seriously yeah mate it was made i'll pop some clips from the waterloo city lines the shortest shortest tube line that one was uh that was the second to last day and i was like i can't believe how many fucking people here for this is that this is actually wild so i think anytime you can again you can get other people involved with it is it was a wonderful thing but i just meant that uh yeah kind of built more momentum i thought it was going to build and it's such a fun thing also helped there was a heat wave in london at the time and one thing we love here is if it's sunny to get outside and do stuff so you know there was not i don't have to ask anyone twice to come join but um that was that was really that was really fun because again it was also challenge because it was also like one day would be an ultra distance the next day would be like a 30 to 40k distance so again we just structured it as like 70k day then it was like a 30k day then it was like an 80k day then it was like a 35 which is really nice to do because you then have like you run ultra the next day is like you've got three or four hours and you've got like the rest of the day to chill so i'll be doing this midway through this challenge i'll have loads of time to like go back to my house like have more sleep like sit with my editor go for these videos like it was a really fun experience because banging weather like or everyone and like everyone could get to find me and see where i was and like it was just a really fun uh fun challenge and um yeah that was uh 2023 i did that uh did it for calm the campaign against living miserably which is a mental health charity um as all the challenge i've done i've always raised money for those guys um so yeah it was uh it was a super fun experience and that was like a real that's my first like multi-day like well for a into multi-day stuff and i was like damn like this this it's it's hard but there's a different level of rewarding like the day after you've run like an 80 or 90k day or 100k day and like you wake up and you're like oh i'm so cooked but then you slowly get out of bed you get the body moving a little bit roll the feet out and you take that step outside then you go right let's see if i can run and then you just start moving again and actually you know you're you're moving and some of the fastest I've ever ran has been towards the end of those challenges where I'm like just to prove to myself I'm like I might have run hundreds of kilometers last few days but I still have it in me to try and like give it a go some more like that's that's a really weird but beautiful place to be able to get yourself to where like you can tap into that and like knowing that yesterday was yesterday I don't get how hard yesterday was like today we're the here and now you can push it right in that moment and uh that's always fun hey your mindset is crazy like you you just seem so happy about everything yeah i feel like your outlook is so positive is there anything that in your life that you actually like dread doing like it obviously yeah my fucking taxes hey yeah yeah no um to dread uh i like to look at most things as an experience like you know good or bad it's if the if the goal is experience then there's no thing is a good about experience like the goal of life should be to go out and try and experience things um yeah generally speaking no like you know there's there's like with everyone there's good days and bad days don't not i'm not feeling like this every day um as i get towards like as i get closer to races or challenges and things become serious like i think when i get to texas those last few days will be like right let's let's let's be serious here we'll start really honing in on do you ever get nervous before big events yeah i think so yeah i think i think it's good i think i think pretending like i'm not nervous is probably the worst thing to do like if i so if like so you just embrace it embrace it yeah no i think it's good to feel nervous it shows you care about what it is about if you if you weren't nervous i don't think it's a case there i mean don't wrong i'm not going to be like i wouldn't tell anyone around me i'm nervous i won't be like i'll journal about though and i'll get it down on paper no way i always i'm a big believer in like whatever is your feeling and you're unsure about those feelings like don't leave them floating around your head just like either speak to someone about them or write them down a bit of paper as soon as they're down a bit of paper i go okay they're on the paper now they're not they're almost like it's almost like i've just taken them out of my head and i go cool i put it down i can now move on it's a really wonderful practice that's why i do a lot of sports journaling so before even when on the um simulations i'll do the uh the journaling before each round i do that most days anyway so before a session after session how i'm feeling um what i'm looking forward to in the session then after session how to go i just write down what i did like today was like a 10k run and then afterwards was you know full body session in the gym or low body session in the gym like how i felt doing it they feel how energized was i and sometimes i could even be like smiley face or like sad face but i just have years of doing that sort of stuff and it's the funniest stuff is going back like before even going to ultra stuff and i was like just doing you know a lot more weight stuff or um even more functional things i'm it's me so it's the same stuff i'm talking about here felt like shit didn't feel up for it afterwards yeah that wasn't too bad or like and the funny stuff is it always like that as well like the the first one say at the start of a session or just before you're going to start it's obviously not all the time but like you're not feeling it and then after it's always positive it's so it's it's one of those things also that that has to be able to see that even five six years ago i'll be writing stuff down being like oh i'm so tired like i this is not going to be very good and then afterwards i'm like that was surprisingly fun or that was surprisingly good every now and then it could be the opposite sometimes you'll be like feeling well up for this today and then after i was like yeah that was terrible maybe it probably under fueled or like a little something in there but just knowing that like my perception of a session going into it is the worst indicator of how that's going to go i'm a terrible i i know and knowing that because i've got again stacked evidence there knowing that how i feel about that session beforehand is a really bad judgment of how it's going to go the most important thing is going like okay let's just go into it with like an open mind and experience even if i've got even if it could be you know ridiculous long run and i've got another session of the day it's like well i've done all i can had a good sleep last night i've eaten really well when i listen to this whatever it is like and just and just crack on um i think that's just good to understand because knowing that my perception of what's going to happen is just a really poor judgment of it because how we feel about things is usually a really inaccurate way of measuring how it's going to go and then yeah it's weird because you know as much i want to say like i don't negotiate with myself I negotiate myself all the time.

1:19:07I could be, I could literally before a session be like, oh, it's 18K, but like this is going to be done. This is a temper, this is a threshold. Maybe I should, oh, see how I feel to get that. It's like, I'm already negotiating. I haven't done the session yet. I'm already like in my head being like, and then I'm doing it. I'm like, oh, this is fine. And then even sometimes I'm like, oh, chuck another 5K at the end because I feel that good. It's like, why do I feel this way before a session sometimes? Yeah. I don't know why. It's strange. It's strange how, like you say, you can be so wrong you can feel not up for it in the slightest and then you get going and then you feel incredible yeah it's what it's wild but again that's just uh i think that's just human nature really it's like we worry so much before we do things and so much of the time like our worrying is like really unnecessary like we so it's a common quote from like we suffer more than we do in imagination than we do in reality and it's so true like how we think about the things go into it is kind of where the most of the suffering lies and actually when you're doing it it's usually not as bad sometimes it is as bad but like most of the time it's not a bad yeah so you've got the g1m ultra yep 102 miles last year what do you think you're gonna get this year have you got something yeah i mean i mean realistically we're gonna go i want to be go i want to go beyond the distance the two lads went last year okay so they went 260 miles i think so yeah i got beyond 260 yeah so how many days is that how many hours that's into day three into day three so yeah so uh so past 72 hours yeah no no so day three will be once you pass 48 hours oh yeah yeah i mean i mean getting towards that i think the race is going to go that way there i can't say like i can't be sitting here being like i'm going to go there and i'm going to be the last man standing i don't know i think some psycho could turn up and just be you know have the absolute terminator all i got control over is like it's how the work i'm doing now and the action i've got going into the race i'm going to do my best to get to be in that position is to be done there so i know that so a lot of preparation to do i've got five week heat acclimation to do getting into what's that process going to be like awful uh it's it's the most disgusting training you do um i work at the company called core um yeah um they've got a heat suit i've got to basically do a certain amount of heat training every week and it's the most unathletic form of training i've ever done because because all i've got to do is get my skin and core temperature up to a certain zone and then just sit at that zone and i could be on the bike kicking out like 120 watts and my heart rate is like a 140 because just your body is just you're forcing your body to basically sit with that heat and your when your core temperature goes to a certain point the feeling you get i get like kind of a little bit drowsy and like especially when we do a heat stress test to see where how my body responds when it goes above like the basically the edge of the safe zone how we can pull that down without stepping or getting getting out the suit um it's a really uncomfortable thing to do it also doesn't feel like you're doing that much effort because again you're not kicking out too many watts or i mean i'm not i'm not going to run on a treadmill in the heat suit because it just looks i don't first i don't have a treadmill home i only got the bike at home so i don't mind doing it at home but i definitely i did one session in the gym last year in the suit i'll be honest with you i was like i can't be doing this all right i've got i'm trying to protect a little bit of reputation i've got in my gym um i literally do like a full painting decorator with the with the white suit yeah i've seen the white suits they've got core all over them as well yeah yeah they're not they're not they're pretty savvy with the branding but also because you've got to wear layers underneath as well it's not like it's you know if it was maybe a skin tight suit you know i could be showing off like the back or something in there it's not you've got to wear layers so i literally look like i look flumpy in the suit is probably the best way to describe it so like it's not it's not a good look at all um and you're basically just you're absolutely drenched under that thing so um that they're they're pretty rough also there's a place in london called the altitude center you've got the they've got a heat chamber in there where you can control um temp humidity altitude and also they've got like a really high powered photon light so it can mimic the feeling of direct sunlight on your body which is such a strange and then when they turned on i was thinking i thought they'd like someone to put like a little uh electric heater on behind me i was like why my back's really warm and it literally temperature's the same it's just what the feeling of direct light is on your on your back and neck um and that that's that's a really those guys know their stuff because they they prep people for marathon the saabs everesting like they they've seen the extremes of uh on many things there that's really cool so that's with your heat have you got anything else in preparation between now and the race um the sleep sleep simulations um we're gonna do so next friday i've got a sim which will be yeah they always will take that let's take us at 100k and practicing sleeping the heat work and then really simply i just feel confident when i'm consistent more than anything else so that you can have these big things in training where you know maybe you know run this crazy distance if during that simulation i get to a point where i really don't feel good i will happily just say okay this isn't it's not worth now me feeling out i've been out of action for five six days i'd rather pull that back and just stay consistent with training towards it is that going to be the longest simulation that you do the night one where you run 30 kilometers and then do 10 hours we're planning that one to be the longest simulation 100k yeah um sometimes the simulations can do more damage than good yeah i'd say definitely 100k like if if i was training for an ultra marathon i don't think i'd do much more than 50 kilometers yeah i think because of how it's broken up each hour yeah it really doesn't like i did that 70k the other week i've i've i felt worse after 5ks like i generally because of how sweet i suck at like a six minute kilometer pace the whole way i was done at five like 17 minutes chill time each round yeah you can fuel properly you can i was hammering the fueling down so like i finished that around the last k like three three 20 zone phase i was like i feel great i'm gonna absolutely kick this out went to the pub sat down for like an hour with my mate had a pint chatted about the day went through some of the content and then you you know you know it's like post-op do we go right i'm gonna try and stand up here i literally just said i was like yeah i'm absolutely fine i was thinking about maybe getting a new back tomorrow i was like no i was like i'll just jog back i feel completely fine when i had a massive dinner 10 hours sleep work out next day went for a run i was like yeah my legs feel completely fine yeah and that's that just shows that you're fit though yeah but also the training's paying off but also if i was to run and say a 70k straight run yeah yeah very different to doing it 6.7k and then having a rest like that that format just that's why you have these crazy distances being hit because you're basically not but it's not it is a continuous run but it isn't a continuous run because you could run 6.7k really slowly and basically come in at the end of the lap each time so it is a weird one but like knowing that is the like a pacing strategy yeah daytime night time yeah because you want to daytime slow so you want to i mean this this is what we're doing anyway um if any of you anyone else racing this race wants to borrow our strategy more than welcome to keep me company on my laps um it's a daytime slow so come in and maybe about 50 minutes so every time there's like a slight any slight undulation uphill downhill just walk sitting down for more than 10 minutes in the day when you're about to get back out is actually a bit long like i'd rather just be on my feet walking rather than just sitting um it will say at least you feel like you're progressing that way and then night time faster so night time apart from the little uphills and the downhills we'll still probably like power walk them the rest i'm just running at like a pretty nice a nice comfortable pace but i want to be getting back in 40 41 minutes to give myself like as much time as i can to like properly power nap that just make the most of that time say it could take me five minutes to fall asleep if i can if i can bite 10 minutes out of those nighttime laps and consistently hit 10 minutes an hour 10 minutes now 10 minutes now 10 minutes an hour like that will stack up really fast and then by the time dawn breaks it's like right caffeine back on let's now start pulling the pace back down again be out there for 50 minutes come back in 50 51 minutes walk back to camp change your bottles get some more food on you like and then have a sit down by the time the next round's ready to go you haven't really not cooled down but like mentally you haven't gone oh i'm comfortable now whereas night time you do need to get in get comfortable so pacing strategy will change day to night last year the strategy was let me figure this out because i didn't know how i was going to feel daytime nighttime it was also so hot last year that i found that it was better to almost run the day laps faster so i then had 27 25 minutes to get my core temperature down oh yes because it was so hot because it was so hot i noticed early on because it starts at midday even like 5 6 p.m i noticed people who are good fit runners who were taking who doing slow day laps who were getting timed out because they were not giving themselves time to like sort of caught up or they're just throwing up because the heat like um chad wright yeah he he dropped the like i think 17 hours because he was doing a slow tactic where he was coming in at 55 minutes each round and like awesome guy by the way um he was coming in 55 minutes at the end of each round because his strategy was to just like for the especially the first day like keep it very slow um i think he was they were saying like he was not feeling well at all and that was a really big concern was this why a load of people like why there wasn't that many people left in it towards the end because it was so unbelievably hot so again And that was a big learning curve for us.

1:28:16It was like, okay, the heat is such a different, another layer of difficulty involved with these things. What were the top boys doing? So the two guys that battled it out, what were their techniques? Was it very similar? Pretty similar, yeah. Kim was, my captain was next to Kim's whole time. So he was more or less coming in. He was daytime. He was going, he was staying out a little bit longer than I was. Kendall was just like, he's like the Terminator man. He just like the consistency the entire way through. What, just like fast? no slow slow every like daytime nighttime just like boom boom like he had sam harvey as his coach as well so like just like they were locked in like watching how their team worked was so awesome to see and what were they coming in were they coming in like 50 minutes 55 minutes 50 52 i think 52 minutes every single time pretty much yeah i think maybe some nights some of the deeper night rounds they go a bit faster um i'll be honest i was i was just trying to survive he's on that time and he's on that time like how much of that is running and how much of that is walking if you're doing 52 minutes oh these are walking in there yeah like i'd say every four minutes running you're walking one no one's running fast like that's the thing it's a race that no one runs fast in that's it's such a weird thing so it's more of like a fast walking pace oh you could you could fast walk 6.7 like if you've like power walked it you you could do like it just whenever i see a flat a flat bit of my rule was if it's flat just turn the legs over and like i don't know i didn't check my pace at all like once i thought it was weird though at the start i i kept i was the first one back for the first few rounds because i was like i want to get back in and get the ice vest on get cooling so i was wearing a core temp to see where my core temperature was at and i was like i want to get this back down to where it should be before the next round starts i noticed it took about 10 50 minutes for that core temp to really come in with like ice water on the body which is a lot of me so i'm quite well insulated so to get my core temperature down like it might take a little bit more than most people so i just found that i found that that was my earlier strategy was like even though it looked like i was trying to win each lap and i was just like i'm not actually trying to win the lap i i know the first one back in but this is just my strategy to get through this really hot point of the day because it started at 39 degrees and i knew at sunset was about seven o 'clock i was like i just need to these first seven hours like i don't mind running a bit faster if it means i can be back in the shade i can be getting cold ice cold water all over me and like really like making a difference there and again like a lot of people drop those first few hours because of the heat i think depending it'll probably be about texas so 30 30 ish degrees but if it is like another one of those heat waves like that that makes a big because we were also preparing for um we were prepared for uh it to be like 30 32 and then the week before the race this heat wave just came up and what temperature was it actually 39 40 and like degrees celsius and it's humidity you know how humid it is out there as well like we i remember the night before i was walking out walking around um ladybird lake like the night before the little like you know just just go for a little stroll like last minute things i remember just being like a vest and shorts and i was drenched just from like a little walk up down the path like like soaking wet and i was like oh man this is this is like that was reality hitting me like this is really really hot like in the day when the sun's out like it is like thick air there was no breeze on the on the ranch so last year was the worst possible conditions i I think it could have been.

1:31:35So taking that, I'm like, you know what? 102 miles in those conditions is not bad at all. I'll take it. We learned so many lessons from it. But also as well, like, it definitely sparked in me being like, right, if we really prepare for this, we spend a year of training, a year of preparing and building ourselves towards this thing, learn from the failings, learn from these lessons, then yeah, why the hell not give it another go? And so that's where the attitude has been to it. Like my coach, Tommy, shout out to Tommy Trees. He's been like on it the whole year, like learning so much more about this.

1:32:01He's a good guy. he's really good yeah yeah so no he got him in and um him adrian my physio's coming out with us as well um and nick my uh buddy he's doing some of these challenges so he's like a strong team to and again like they're coming out all the way with me i gotta like i feel like i own a good performance you know i can't uh i can't can't let that so even now like training each week i'm like now like if the boys are backing me and everyone's coming through for this one like let's let's let's make a let's do let's put our best foot forward no pun intended that's sick well i wish you all the all the best of luck for that thank you so much um have you got any plans after that have you been thinking about any kind of major events any other things that you yeah are they locked away yeah secrecy at the moment there are a little bit um one of them's involving the hat that you're wearing right there um oh incredible yeah no i was with him last week doing some planning for a few things um i've got some i've got some big things that over the next few years i'll be wanting to get towards um so this september this year i've got another all running related yeah all running related yeah yeah um so september this year i've got a there is a there is a fast known time i'm going for uh across somewhere and then next year i think next year next year i'm just going i've got there's a couple there's a couple of formal races i love as much as i do love in these crazy challenges where just sort of me doing them out there i also do love going to ultra marathons and meeting people and being involved within the sport itself as much as challenges are great you are a little bit outside of the support outside of the sport because you're just the one doing it so i think um i do like to there's a few big races out there that i'd love to get a spot for so hopefully hopefully can get a spot in one of those but then on that i've got a big one for next year and to be fair we've got that's 26 27 and i got one of the big big one for 28 which is i'll tell you off camera it is okay yeah it's when i say it's big it's like it's like yeah it's a fucking ridiculous one but i also know that and it's that far away because you need to plan and train for it yeah pretty much i think i think also i think it's like rather than jumping deep in like there's a pretty the record that was set for it is like fucking ambitious like it's a it's a real big one there but i think that's it's that's been on my like list for the last few years yeah but i think as well is you know it's building up to these things and you know it's all working towards that um yeah i'm excited about it that's sick that's sick i want to finish with uh a couple of quickfire questions go for it um first of all what's a day of eating look like for you obviously you eat like a horse correct what what we having for breakfast lunch and dinner breakfast i got two breakfasts first breakfast is four crumpets butter and jam so that's just pre-run get it done crumpets i love it man crumpets they go so hard um post run always crumpets i love crumpets yeah they make they go down so easy they're so they're so digestible they're the easiest thing in the world digest they're delicious a bit of butter in there raspberry jam ah hits um a lot a lot of coffee when i wake up and then i'll have um post run protein oat bowl like two scoops of protein powder eight grams of oats chia seeds salt water frozen blueberries banana a little bit of uh peanut butter bangs sometimes with skier skier yogurt as well um just for the extra protein just the extra protein it makes it it's a little bit creamy as well.

1:35:16Lunch will be 500 grams of ground beef, 350 grams. Half a kilo of ground beef. Ground beef, 5 % fat, 400 grams of boiled new potatoes, then a seasoning, then a bang with the air, fry to crisp up a little bit. Asparagus heads, some sort of other greens in there, leafy greens and broccoli as well. Always just make little side bowls of broccoli. And you always make everything yourself? I try and cook as much as I can. I absolutely love cooking. It's nice when I'm doing training because I try and make stuff. what's what's the most flavorsome way i can make this food or this dish so about the ground beef i'll just get ground beef i'll be like shallots shiitake mushrooms um be a bit beef stock in there as well and like you know really like how how nice can you make five percent lean ground beef turns out really nice with a bit of imagination um and some seasonings as well um and then dinner will generally be um i go quite high on a bit higher my fats for dinner so um i'll often just have like sides of eggs with things as well um or avocado but then i'll do generally do like a steak or chicken breast dinner um again uh it's probably sweet potato i'm not a big rice eater i know you had hugo fry here earlier he loves his rice i i really i actually not i'm not a massive fan of rice i much prefer potatoes they're just so satiating so you have potatoes for lunch and then another pretty much unless i need to get like a shit kind of carbs in yeah um i'll also before a gym session i'll probably have a couple of go bars yeah before i was about to go gels go bars and some flight pre-workout yeah pre-gym sessions i usually do runs always in the morning gyms in the afternoon and then if i've got another third session will be bike in the evening and that's just chilling at home so that's just like that's about it really snacks we have to go we have to go for snacks but dark chocolate dark chocolate i don't mind that oh kiwis as well yeah the kiwi hype at the moment everyone seems to be having kiwis golden kiwis okay kiwis get a bad not a bad rep but like kiwis just don't have the marketing the orange does in the vitamin c world so kiwis weren't discovered until like pretty recently this is this about oranges they've been around for like thousands of years in europe so everyone's like oh yeah you know vitamin c get it from an orange kiwi's got twice as much vitamin c in i should be working i should get a brand deal with like the governing body of like kiwi importer or something because i am the biggest kiwi uh hype man there is they do taste nicer as well i think it tastes fantastic the golden ones as well the ones you've got to eat the skin that's right yeah yeah you've got to eat the skin you can't just like chop them up and spoon out the niceness you've got to eat it all the fairy bits um so no that's that's that's a standard day of eating um and again if i'm making it i'll make it taste pretty good so yeah if you could only run or lift for the rest of your life which one you're picking lift lift yeah even though you do so much running i i generally i you never have to convince me to go lift weights i think i think it's the most fun activity i'll do this the day i die I love going to the gym and lifting weights okay just the pure love of it I think it's I find it never feels like training it's a really enjoyable experience yeah it definitely is it definitely is as well like you can go obviously you can go running with your mates but like going to the gym with your mates it's just like different isn't it it's honestly like peak male activities you do with your mates I just love going to the gym yeah even if I don't need to train I also go to the gym most days and just like I'll find something to do bench bench every day that's it My next question then, squat or bench?

1:38:34Squat. Squat? Yeah. I'm a big squat guy. Yeah. But I'm not... Have you got numbers? Have you... Not for a while. Yeah, not for a while. I mean, my big thing at the moment is Zurcher squats. Okay. I absolutely... I love a Zurcher squat. So what's the benefit of them over a traditional back squat? A bit more focus on quads and massive focus on core and to prevent yourself from leaning forward. um so it feels more like a deadlift when i'm doing them like my the facial the pull the my the what my face pulls and the noise that comes out of me when i do them is exactly what comes out of me during a deadlift when i normally squat i just yeah it's all right there you know it's hard but like doing a zurcher there's something uniquely difficult or weird about doing a zurcher squat the fact that you're not holding the bar you're just hugging it under your arms there it's also i always think like it's a proper strongman exercise you see someone searching in the gym i'm like they know ball like that person uh knows they're doing also completely takes the lower back out of it as well so i think from a lot from um from longevity perspective i'm quite conscious of that like i've always had a pretty decent lower back but i'm careful when i'm running to not do too much to anything that might potentially tweak it so i'd much rather do like so i do a lot more trap bar deadlifts searcher squats instead of back squats or front squats but But yeah, I just feel really comfortable doing them.

1:39:59Yeah. No, it's interesting. It's something that I've tried quite recently and I like them. Anything that's not spinal loading, I think it's a lot better. If you put something on your back and you can relax, say a back squat, you can literally chill and that weight be on you, it's not very good for your spine. So anything where you've got to be actively kind of switched on and working. So a zurch squat, a goblet squat, even like a front squat to an extent. or something where you're holding a plate up like that. I just find it a lot better on the back, especially. I've tried a belt squat machine.

1:40:32Yeah, belt squats are great. They're so good. Yeah, it's just they're hard to come by, really. You've got to be in a really cool gym to have them. You don't see them often. No. But yeah, no, that's interesting. If you couldn't do what you do now as a living, what would you do? Great question. A chef. You'd be a chef? yeah i love yeah i love cooking okay so if we if we was if you was to cook me a meal oh romantic meal a romantic meal yeah okay so he said johnny day who's famous eight hours meatball so i went to i actually went to a cooking class in italy to learn this right so um i was in uh naples it's like some old old italian nona taught me in that um eight hour meatballs just like you use a mix of like pork venison and beef as a blend for the for the meat the meat yeah yeah real real nice blend there you double blend it put in there for the sauce sand marzana tomatoes um i've got the whole thing listed out home there but you take you to do the sauce you got to do on the lowest heat possible a bit of red wine in there um ground carrot this carrot's gonna lift the sugars up out the uh out the sort out there's other sauce um onions and then there's a whole bunch of other herbs we put in there and then the meat is just like you gotta cook brown them off and they finish in there but again it's a patient man's game it's eight hour meatballs so we got a lot of times on our hands we can go for a long run we go for a little workout and then we've been so after after so they just sit and stew yes you gotta but keep it on super low heat it does chemically it does think different when you cook a bit harder i know that on food massively about this little stuff there um yes there's a really cool there's a really cool food channel that basically explains how cooking things at different speeds or doing things like actually the chemical changes within the properties of food how it changed the taste profiles i find it fascinating i could if i didn't train i would be an incredibly fat person because i love food like i generally would i think half the reason i train so much and run so much is to burn off what i fancy that's why i have to make like you know delicious versions of like healthier food yeah that's cool i'm uh you're making me hungry yeah we are mate um and then last one that i want to touch on for someone who's looking to run an ultra in the future maybe they've never done one before maybe they've done one but uh they didn't get the time or distance that they wanted if they were potentially doing a backyard ultra what pieces of advice would you give them oh great question i definitely say the most important part is like it's it's the the values in the pursuit you know it's it's not don't over index too much on the outcome or the result because say you achieve it cool you achieved it your life's gonna be the same say you don't achieve it your life's gonna be the same the only thing that's really going to change in your life is your attitude towards it is the amount of work you put in to get towards that goal again like this is why i always say like the you finish run a marathon you get a medal cool like you you take it off the day because they don't you yeah yeah you know probably the same day to be fair actually it depends if you can go to the pub and get a free drink or like uh you take you take that free pizza but realistically you're not going to spend the next two years of your life walking around the medal around your neck so it's not it's it's a moment thing you hit you hit goal hit a target there the important thing is the journey need to get to that start line that is where 99 % of the value you're going to get from this whole experience is generated is in the commitment to that commitment towards your goal because that's we're going to pick up your habits your disciplines your values and that's where ultimately you are becoming a changed person you're saying I'm going to go for this thing here running the marathon running ultra marathon won't change you but committing to one and training for one for weeks and months and having this singular goal to go for it that will change you I think that's a really something we should probably look much more as to like the really special part about this sort of thing is that the journey to the start line is so special so much so that results are they important to some people they are and it's great to get work towards certain results here but i always say like you know if you have to be an arsehole along the way to get to the outcome you want it's never worth it like if you you know if you become a shitty friend or a shitty partner or you're just you know you're you're difficult to be around in pursuit of all these different goals it's really not worth whatever it is for the sake of what knocking a few minutes of a marathon or an ultra marathon no you know it's about who you become in that process and you know the people you get to spend your time with around and for me i've massively focused during the training box and seeing my friends a couple times a week because again like as much as i'm in my little serious world of training i still think my friends set the piss out of me uh you know and i want them there as i'm doing these things so you know i think it's really important to remember like yes it's serious you should take your training seriously just never take yourself too seriously with it because you know it's just it's just running no that's that's really uh that's really cool and then is there anything like on the day that you think you know they've started the race they've done all the training done everything that they can but on race day is there any tips that you give talk to people because during ultra you're never really running fast enough to uh to to be out most of the time to be that out of breath you can't have a conversation with someone the most interesting people i've ever met have been during ultramarathons because it's takes a pretty unique i was thinking it takes a pretty unique person to want to go look at look at like 100 mile and go you know what i'm gonna go train for that i'm gonna spend my time training that thing there most people on ultramarathon are really interesting people um and they've either been doing it for years they're just getting into it or whatever it is and everyone's got such a unique story as to how they get there people don't just wake up one day and go yeah i'm gonna start running 100 mile races generally most people you meet these races are super interesting and very friendly as well i've never met i don't think i've ever i'd say i've ever met a really mean person in these ultra marathons like you know you've got people who've gone through terrible traumatic experiences who've used running as a tool or mechanism to heal themselves and they they they care so much about what they're in and like everyone's got a story and i think it's a really beautiful place to be at so i'd say just you know as much as you're trying to focus on running an insane distance you've got a lot of time to spend the people around you because you end up pacing each other for sometimes hours at a time um so yes make sure you know ask people well how do they end up doing this and you'll be surprised at how many interesting people you meet it might take the pain away as well it's a big it's a great distraction as well it's a phenomenal way to distract yourself uh from it all no thank you for this thank you for coming on today um shall we wrap it up there we'll go for that one there thank you so much for having me on thank you bro