Life As a Pro Footballer | Josh Brownhill | Ep 73

0:00Josh Brownhill, welcome to the podcast. Thank you, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. How's life over in Saudi? Yeah, it's good. The weather's unreal. I mean, right now it's like 45 degrees, so you can't really go out in the day too much. And even at night, it's like 40 degrees at night, so it's really hot. But yeah, no, it's nice. Nice little change from Burnley. Yeah, a big change the weather-wise especially. And even in Manchester and stuff like, obviously now. To be honest, it actually does get quite cold. Like, during the winter it rains and stuff, and it does get to like 10 degrees and stuff, so you can actually wear a jacket.

0:38But yeah, 90 % of the time there, it's nice weather. Sick. For the people that may not know who you are, obviously a professional footballer, what's it like? I feel like that is the question everyone wants to know. yeah it's like unbelievable obviously like through training as a kid obviously you want to grow up and be a footballer and thankfully for me I managed to make that happen and like I said I don't take it for granted I appreciate everything and like all the hard work and stuff to get to this point of being a professional footballer like yeah it's nice and stuff so yeah it's yeah like I'm proud to be a professional footballer you know that's sick but I'm sure it comes with a lot of positives but probably some downsides as well which we'll touch on a little bit later but what I'm really intrigued in is like how it all started like how did it even obviously you was a united academy right yeah um how do you even know that you're good at football you know what I mean well it's actually quite a funny story so when I was like I think three or four years of age this is the story that my dad tells me is like you should go to this park and like play football and stuff was you always obsessed with football always yeah like literally always I'd have like Like football's everywhere from literally being born.

1:55Like my household is like very football orientated. Like my two older brothers and stuff. My dad played football as a, like when he was younger, he played for, he was like City's Academy and then he got released and then went in the army and stuff back then. But played football all the way through. My brothers did and it's just always been in the family. And yeah, I was like really obsessed with football and used to go to this park and there was a team playing at like under fives. And I used to always moan about wanting to join in and play and play. and my dad was like you can't you're too young and then one day my dad was like to the manager that he knew and he said just let him join in like shut him up just let him join in and he was like no I can't and then I joined in and he's like oh you're gonna have to bring him back he's the best we've got and I was like I think I was four years of age like just training on a football pitch for these kids but yeah it was mad so like I think I was five at the time five or six and like you have a satellite it's called so like where you go because you can sign a contract at seven to basically play like your first start at seven at united for example and before that before you can do that is have like a little satellite where it's like you get looked at properly and like then when you get seven you can go and sign pretty so they're actually scouting at seven years old yeah six years old i was playing at this place like satellite yeah and pretty serious yeah yeah yeah no honestly it was my but at the time i was actually training with man city and united at the same time when i was six so i was like go training at United then I'd go training at City when it got to seven I had to choose like because you sign a contract properly just like a health and safety form like not like a big contract or anything but yeah I had to decide and I'm actually a City fan like a Man City fan so like you'd think I would have gone to the blue side but I remember having a conversation like with my dad and stuff and United were obviously a lot better at that time and stuff and like better academy and then yeah ended up signing for United at seven so yeah I think from the age of four three four five like I just always played football and realized I was half all right yeah and was that what was that like at school was you on like day release and stuff like that yeah so that was more day release was more when I think when I was in high school um I never a few people did get day release but I was never in that group that actually got it so like certain people you go to a school at United and they go like normally they pick like the ones who've probably got the most chance of making it sort of thing they would go to a school in manchester and i was never really on that because i was i was good probably up until the age of about 13 14 like where i was doing really well and then i didn't really grow and go for like a growth spurt and stuff i was like really delayed a lot of people were going through that transition then and people were getting faster and stronger and obviously like they were probably performing better than me so at that time they got picked to go to like school and stuff and get like contracts earlier and stuff so that was quite difficult to not be in that but like everyone knew like obviously you go training like four times a week still it's like 12 13 14 years of age and stuff and like you're playing for United like it's yeah it's unreal and everyone knows you're playing at United's academy but then you get to a point of like 15 16 when you get a decision to be decided whether you stay on and get a scholarship or whether you don't and obviously at 16 then they told me obviously I weren't good enough to to stay on pretty much yeah how did that feel at the time So I remember going into, I knew really I wasn't going to sign and get a scholarship, but obviously that's all I've known is just we've been there since being six.

5:19So like coming to an hour, I remember going into a meeting, it was like going to meet with two of the coaches and they sit there and they say, blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, we're not going to give him a contract. You know, we don't think at the time, I remember the words, it was like, he's not fit enough. He's not strong enough and fast enough, pretty much like athletically, like not there for us. I don't know if I remember I went to Trafford Centre after some food and I was like just bawling my eyes out I was like it was mad like the feeling of like being there for so long and then getting told like you're not good enough basically like quite brutally really yeah it was it was horrible is there any like support like they offer you to because obviously United like one of the best teams you know in the world yeah do they like say oh go have trials for this team or that or do they give you trials at other teams or not they say that maybe it was a bit different to me I don't want to speak on but like other people that did but to me obviously they said oh you know we'll set up trials for you we'll help you blah blah blah they didn't help me really like I got the trials I got after I got myself like with my dad and my agent at the time like I met an agent through a family friend who I'm still with now so obviously it worked out well and he helped me a little bit like through contacts and stuff but yeah they'll say like you know you can stay here and still train until you find a club we're going to help you this that and the other and like yeah they just they just never did and I went on trials it's quite a funny story actually went on trials at like pressed no I went on trial at crew first they said no I went on trial at Sheffield United no Burnley I went on trial at Burnley and they said like no you're not good enough and I went on trial at Sheffield United basically said the same thing like you know we've got people here that we want to push rather than you so I was like this is mad like I was half going to give it up and I got a trial at Preston I remember going there and thinking I said to my dad in the car I was like if I don't if they don't get me on here like I'm probably gonna have to like stop playing football pretty much and have to like do something else my dad was like no like you're gonna you'll get on blah blah I was gonna ask that like how uh how supportive were your parents like because you have some parents that are like no no you need to have a backup you need to you know do really well with your studies or you you shouldn't play football because we want you to have a real job or whatever it is you're never going to make it and then you have some parents that are obviously super supportive what were your parents my dad gave me no choice but you're going to play football that's pretty much yeah so like i owe a lot to him to be honest like how he pushed me as a kid and stuff and like it was a nightmare even like training when I was younger and stuff like at United, a lot of the parents would probably hate him because if I weren't training well, he'd be shouting down at me from the balcony like, Josh, sort yourself out.

8:03And it was just like training. And I'm like, I wouldn't want to look up him if I'm training bad because he'd be like, come on, you need to sort yourself out. Did you talk back to him? No, did he? I never talked back to him, no. Not at that point. But if it wasn't for him, there's no way I'd probably be doing what I'm doing now. like he gave me no choice now that's why obviously I'm very thankful for him but no like they're very very supportive really like very supportive I mean I was like no you're not going to stop playing football and I was like you know I've come from United's Premier League team obviously in the academy to like for example Preston were in League One I think Burnley might have been in the Championship, Jeff United might have been in League One, Crewe I think were in League Two and these are all like their first team but like it's like an academy and stuff and they're all saying like I'm not good enough and I was like it's just mad like I've come from being at United all this time so then these teams are saying no like it's mad it was real like reality check for me um but then thankfully I pressed them like we want to sign you blah blah blah so I did like a two-year scholarship there basically yeah nice and had you like been playing was that still on the youth team yeah so that was so that was youth team that was at 16 so the youth team is like 16 17 18 basically So had you been like playing these, but like playing these teams, but playing for United?

9:21Yeah, like every now and again, you play these, obviously you play like, it's different categories that they put yourself in, like the best teams obviously going on, but like, yeah, during the week, like if like they want to set up a game and sort of like play against Preston Lodes and Burnley and like all of them really, like I just play against them all the time and like, yeah, that's why like getting rejected from them was like, oh, I'm not, I'm not going to make it. but am I not good enough coming from there? Which was like, yeah, it was mad to think at the time. And did you have a backup?

9:48Like, what would Josh be doing if he wasn't a footballer? What would I be doing? Well, really into fitness or like anything to do that. I think at the time, like my dad and brother, my dad was in the army and my brother's in the RAF. He's just finishing up now. He's been there since being like 17. And he's just coming out now and obviously like he does fitness stuff. I probably would have done some sort of fitness in the army or like RAF potentially at that time. that's probably what I was thinking to be like a PT for example in the army or something like that so I probably would have been doing that really and compared to like everyone like say at school and stuff like that would you batter everyone with like the fitness tests yeah like when I was obviously like younger and stuff like when you used to like sports day or like running or whatever like yeah I was like always like super fit that's why I was quite mad at that oh like United said that I weren't fit enough and stuff.

10:40It was always so bizarre because I was. I was definitely not strong enough and quick enough at that period. But yeah, I was fit. I always used to, in school and stuff, win the majority of all the stuff I was doing. Interesting. So they wanted to sign you for two years at Preston, right? Yeah. How did it go from there? So my first year, so in my first year, I did quite well. Nothing special or anything, but I did quite well. is my second year where I was captain of the youth team in my second year. And I was 16, I was 17 in my second year. And I think we played like 10 games in the youth team. I think we scored like 11 goals and I scored 10 of them, like in all the games at this point.

11:26So like I was doing like really, really well. And then I think I played like a reserve game, like a first team reserve game sort of thing. Did really well in this game. and then I got moved to the first team at 17, like in the dressing room and stuff training. So I'd turn up to training with the youth team and then they'd call me every day saying, Josh, you need to go to the first team to go and train, which was obviously a bit mad, like walking into a first team dressing room at 17, like where all the senior pros are, I was like the most nerve wracking thing. Like even to this day, I remember I was so nervous.

11:56Like I don't really get that nervous, but like it was, yeah, it was mad. And then at 17, I made my debut in a game we're getting beat 2-0 I think and then I came on at half time and then did really well and yeah I played like from 17-18 pretty much like most games to be honest yeah which was mad because at 16 I got released from United and then at 17 I'm playing first team football in League One like that's what everyone dreams of right? yeah like it was like getting a call up and making my debut was like it was obviously like the best thing in the world like it's obviously all your dreams and aiming to go and do that and then you finally make a professional appearance like it's like it's proper playing with men do you know what I mean at 17.

12:41Yeah what was uh the dressing room like like was it did people take to you did people like obviously a 17 year old coming in newbie coming in was it actually like? Like I say it's very nerve-wracking but everyone everyone was like really good to be fair like with me um but you know I think it's a bit different back then to like what it is now like back then you like get the piss taken out of you a little bit and like you know trying like toughen you up and like like banter you a lot and stuff because like you're the young kid and it's just expected like whether you're cleaning boots or whether you're picking up things or like whether the banter and you're like so it's tough to go in like only if you're not mentally strong in them dressing rooms like that's that's a big part of it you'll get like found out and like you can't hack it even if you are good enough to be there if you're not mentally strong to go into a men's dressing room like you'll get found out really easy but no everyone was great like I held my own in the dressing room I used to drive in with like three lads um in the first team because I was in digs at 16 17 so I was in a house with 30 lads 25 lads with like a mum and dad who would look after us and then when I started playing first team I moved home and then I was driving in with a few people who drive from that Liverpool and they were like 30 years of age, 28, 31.

13:56So like they used to like bat me in the car and that, like you just like, you just got to get used to it quick. That's how like you learn quick. Do you know what I mean? And has it changed now? Like not just obviously like because you're older, but like has the dressing room changed? Yeah, like for example, I think I got my car. Like I got a new car when I was, I think I was 18 and I drove to training like with lads and stuff. And then I'm in the dressing room away and everyone's kind of like waiting for me to go out like to the pitch, which is a bit weird. Like they're asking me like, come on, let me open.

14:30I'm like, what's going off here? Anyway, so like getting my boots on that walk outside. And then my car was in the middle of the pitch with like two goals round it. So like my car was parked on the side of the pitch with like two 11 side goals right round it. And obviously everyone's like laughing and stuff and I'm walking out into the pitch and my car's just in the middle of the pitch. Like I say, you would never get that now. Like, cause people like everything that's around it and stuff like protection of younger lads, like it would never happen. But like I say, you've just got to have a laugh and get used to it, do you know what I mean?

14:59Yeah. And that's, there's probably a lot more that you can't talk about. Yeah. Yeah. It'd probably be called bullying now, right? I think so, yeah. That's probably the word for it, yeah. Yeah, but it definitely builds you as a person. How did that kind of like evolve? Obviously, you've been a captain in your time. Like how did, from being that 17-year-old kid who's like super nervous walking into a changing rooms now to kind of like captaining teams and stuff like that like how does that happen yeah it's just through playing a lot of games um like majority of my career I've actually like played like so many games so like obviously comes with that and learning from like the older people who are captains and surrounding yourself with them and looking at what they do and how they lead and probably me as a person and like how I am And as a professional, like, you know, I'd like to say I'm very professional, like as a person from like dedication, watch what I eat, how I am outside of football, like training at 100%, like probably all that.

16:02And then playing through so many games and being trustworthy on the pitch and stuff like you kind of build yourself. And I think the first when I was captain at Bristol City, I think I was 23 and I think the captain left. um I wasn't like the the club captain I was like the club captain left and the other one was injured for ages and then um yeah the manager pulled me in before a game and just said like because there's older people there who probably should have been captain more than me like experience wise and like older and yeah he just brought me in before a game and was just like I'm gonna give you captain like you know I think you deserve it like you know you're a leader and how you perform and, you know, the way I'm around everything and stuff.

16:46And, yeah, from there, like, obviously, you learn a lot on the job. Like, you've got it from even taking, like, team talks and all that sort of stuff, which first time you do a team talk is very nerve-wracking. You know what I mean? Like, if you're on the pitch and you're trying to talk to everyone, like, first time you do it is very nerve-wracking. Did you practice before? I didn't, actually. I didn't. Obviously, I thought about it a little bit, but, like, no, I was just, like, I knew in the moment. Like, when you're in it. Watching, like, motivational videos and shit like that before? Yeah, dude, quickly just before going out, I'm just looking at motivation.

17:13What shall I say? What keywords shall I put in the thing? No, but it just kind of comes off, doesn't it? Like when your adrenaline's going, like start getting a bit passionate, start talking about it. But yeah, I remember the first time doing it. That was like quite a big thing, yeah. Yeah. Has there been like a moment, like a certain team talk that stood out for you? Not from me. We did a lot of team talks in probably my last manager at Burnley, Scott Parker. He was very good at motivational speeches and stuff and like motivational videos before a game and, you know, kind of getting everybody like on his side and motivated, even if you weren't playing and you're out of the squad, you're still motivated because of like the way he is as a person.

17:55And a lot of his team talks like before the game, like it's probably near enough start welling up before a game, like gets you like proper motivated and like, and stuff like that. So like, I'll always remember even like Vincent Company at Burnley as well, like some of the talks he would say before a game and stuff, like get you motivated. but how important is it like can it literally win you a game yeah it definitely it definitely can it's not like the main thing or like has a massive massive factor but i think with scott parker like there's a lot of games where we we won because of a motivational speech before where everyone's can't wait to play and play for him you know i mean like everyone's like really ready to fight for him like if you don't run back he did a good thing to be honest like you used to do videos of like after a game if like we did like a recovery run for example he would always put that in like debrief meetings and stuff to like so that way if you didn't run like it's on the video so like everybody would sprint back and like want to sprint back for him because like everyone is it so you don't get caught out of the video they're both really it's like so it worked though like everyone would run back and it would like say over a season it was get you so many points because everyone would like just like work hard for him and want to be you know on the videos like running back and you can't there's no hiding you know what I mean so that was uh that was quite interesting yeah is there ever been like a point where you've noticed a weakness within like your game and you've like shit I need to work on that yeah I think I think a lot to be honest like I'm probably in the position that I am not because I'm the best player or like been the best player in teams like there's a I've met so many people who are like technically probably like far better than like what I am so I know what I'm good at and I make sure that like for example like working hard and running and like tackling and giving like 100 % if like technically I'm not doing that well in the game at least I'm running around and trying to like you know work hard and stuff so like yeah I wouldn't say I'm like technically the best player like I've never probably been that but through like hard work and stuff like that's probably where I've got to in in my career really like weaknesses wise yeah just a bit of like i don't know like being quick i'm not like the quickest person in the world or like trying to like take people on and do skills like it's never really been me that it's not always like passing and controlling and shooting and tackling and running like that's like my strengths and i stick to that and make sure that i'm good at that yeah yeah i know it's really interesting uh what about kind of like the training like obviously say you're training a lot how much actually is it yeah to be honest it's like it's not like that the training's not like the hardest thing in the world like it depends which manager you're with like there's a lot of managers that are different some like I was under Sean Dyche for example in like pre-seasons and running was a big thing with him um Vincent company um when I was at when I was did you ever do any like tests or anything yeah like in pre-seasons you do like fitness tests and like pre-seasons are always fairly quite tough I feel like a lot of people are intrigued how fit footballers actually are I know it's very specific to running around a pitch like I feel like I'm fit but I go and play a game of football and I'm blowing like it's completely different fitness but is there any kind of like measurements that you could tell us are good for a footballer compared to kind of like the average person um it's very different now with testing like back in the day like many years ago like you do like bleep tests for example and that's kind of like a gauge but you're coming off the back of a summer where probably a lot of people haven't really trained that much in the summer so like you're not at your fittest really probably the the metrics that you offer like a game so like in a game like I would pretty much always run the furthest in a game um from my team and the opposition normally, which would be probably around about 12K.

21:57Sometimes I've got to like 13K, 11.5K a game. It's normally in between that really, where some people would maybe run 10.5K, but their high speed running is like 1 ,000, where my high speed running would only be like 800, for example. So it's hard to put an exact test on it. It's like pre-season there is, but nowadays it's just like do some pitch runs and you're getting in at like a certain time, like 15 seconds on 15 seconds or four minute runs around a pitch and like they have all their sorts of stuff. So you're not doing anything like the Bronco test or like just like a 5K effort or two mile or anything like that?

22:34Yeah, not really. I haven't done the Bronco test for like years. Like many, like, yeah, honestly, like a long time really. Is it just not required, do you think? It is. Like you'll do some tests and they'll get all the data and keep it and stuff and like obviously see how fit you are and stuff like that. but like yeah like it's not they'll just do like random tests and I don't know like I say I haven't done a Bronco phrase I'm trying to think like what pre-season runs I've done before like full pitch runs and like a minute on a minute off like for example this pre-season I've just done like we just ran around a pitch for I think it was like four minutes and see how far you got to get to certain checkpoints and stuff and like for me I would always be at the front pretty much but like not all footballers are fit a lot of footballers are like some of them are not fit but they rely on technique more, for example, in a game.

23:21When you say not fit, like what are you saying? Like running a 5K? They'd probably, some people would probably run like 21. Okay, 21. Yeah, probably. Okay. Would these be like Premier League footballers? Yeah, some probably, yeah. But then obviously you get like, because we don't do that type of, I do that anyway. So like I'll run like off season and stuff like, cause I actually like run, I'll do like 5Ks and stuff a lot and see how I like my timings and stuff from doing that. But it's like, if you came into the football world, you're obviously like super fit. But if you played football, it's difficult.

23:57Like if I don't do that when I'm playing football, like if I go like with Sam and stuff, like he might beat me at like a 5K or like a 10K because he trains for that. So like if I went into like your world, I'm doing like high rocks and like all these marathons. I struggle a lot because it's not the training that I am. But like on a fit, on like a pitch wise, like on football, I'm like super fit. And what about gym work? Do you spend a lot of time in the gym or not? Again, that's difficult because if you play like every like three days, four days, to be honest, it's very hard to get like leg sessions in and do some gym because you're just recovering.

24:33Like they won't let you do it because it's like taking a toll on the body or like it would literally be like play a game, recover the next day, do small training, again the next day, do small training because you have a game the next day. So you've got to be fresh. So like pre-season is full of like more gym stuff and like getting your legs ready. But during the season. What's the typical week looking like in the season? Week to week, if we're having like a week game, it would be like a game on a Saturday, technically. Sunday, potentially, I thought in for recovery. Monday. Does it matter if you win or lose, whether it's off or not?

25:06Sometimes. Does it actually? It depends. If you're on a bad run of form and then you get beat on the weekend, they'll be like, right, you're in tomorrow sort of thing. it comes from the higher up and they're like make sure they're in tomorrow because they still believe in obviously recovery so like it's still important obviously to recover but yeah some people are like oh you have to just come into training just because you don't deserve a day off sort of thing yeah um but yeah then like monday would be like a light session if you played on the saturday tuesday would then normally be like the difficult day so you'll do like a longer training session bigger spaces um sometimes like pitch runs and like and then you're in the gym in the afternoon or before going to training you're in the gym and doing like all your squats and rdls and hip thrusts and doing all that sort of stuff yeah so that and then the next day would be a down day recover from that leg day and then ease your way into the weekend because during the week's not like the toughest it's a saturday of a game day it's just like obviously the hardest thing yeah yeah uh do you ever have many days off like during season where it's like a complete day off, like you do not come in today?

26:13You do get that, but I think nowadays have changed. Like years ago, normally you would normally get like two days off a week or Wednesday and a Sunday to an extent. Where nowadays, like they bring you in for like a recovery day the next day. Maybe you get like one day off a week, but if you're playing every three, four days, you're not really getting a day off. Like now, obviously in Saudi, like we're playing quite a lot. Sometimes I'll go for like two, three weeks without having a day off without going into training and stuff, which I don't mind it but it gives me something to do like going into training but yeah days off are limited until an international break like now when I get a bit of time off which obviously like England are playing Saudi are playing all the internationals are playing so then because we don't have a game I'll get like four or five days off and I do a bit of training but obviously like I will have rest as well and take my mind away from football yeah and then how do you deal with the criticism because obviously you can play well and people love you but when you don't play so well, people hate you.

27:13Yeah, it's always funny because I feel like people enjoy to criticise very easy. You get messages of people trying to criticise you and stuff and I think, like I say, when you're younger, you enjoy looking for comments like when you first start breaking through and people are talking about you and saying how good you are as a young person and obviously it gets to a point where if you haven't a if you had a bad day or you get you get beat for example like yeah some of the abuse can be quite bad you just learn not to let it affect you or like don't read it and like I never read any comments really of like whether it is good or bad like as you get older you just realize it doesn't really matter the only thing that matters is like my family my friends and the manager sort of thing so like as you already just turn to learn to ignore it pretty much but every now and again it slips through and you read it and it's like obviously it's not nice is it to to read the criticism but i know myself when i've had a bad game i don't need people to tell me that i've had a bad game i know so you just kind of just like it's part and parcel of football like i think anything in life like you'll be the same like you feel like you're doing everything right and people just hate on you just because they want to hate on you they do hate on you but it's not normally in person and I feel like that would be the thing that I'd struggle with if I was in your position because if you're taking a corner or something yeah and you're the opposition is right there or sometimes even if it's you know you're not having your team is playing bad and it's your your supporters like they can say some harsh stuff right oh yeah brutal yeah like I've had many games like like I say it's never like outside of football like if you walk past them in the street like no one will ever say anything negative towards you they just love you yeah absolutely love you yeah but then maybe behind a screen or in a football stadium like yeah they'll give you abuse and like I remember probably the worst worst I've got was like when I was when we got relegated out of the Premier League and I was captain I got a lot of heat because we didn't do that well which is expected like I'm the leader I'm the leader of this team like they expect more but yeah I remember like taking a corner like my home fans would be battering me at a corner if we're getting beat or like not playing well like sort yourself out like you know you're not fit to wear the armband like I've had it like taking a throw in and stuff at home game and we're getting beat and like people are shouting like you know you're not good enough you're not fit to wear the armband like you shouldn't be a captain of this club like and obviously I'm trying to focus on the game and I can hear it a little bit in the background like it's not nice Does it affect your performance?

29:52It can do it can do especially when it's your home fans because like your confidence can get knocked. Like for me, it's very easy to say, it's like if you're a home fan of your team, like supporting your team, you should always try and build them a confidence because you want them to win. You don't want them to lose. So like when they're battering you, it's only going to lower your confidence. You're only going to play worse. So it doesn't work for anybody. So like when you say it, I'm like, it does affect a little bit. When you hear it in a stadium and it's like your home fans, like it can affect you.

30:25but sometimes you try and ignore it out like if it's loud and there's like a bit of an atmosphere like sometimes you won't hear it but if you slip through the net yeah that's what I say you just got to be like mentally strong and like try and block out as much as possible and trust your ability and just try and focus on doing the things right that you know that you're good at yeah I'm intrigued to know as well the difference of level between the championship and Premier League oh it's crazy difference honestly like the difference in the Prem is like physicality is insane like everybody is so fast everyone's so strong so fit and like championships like really hard like it's still physically demanding like you play so many games so much more games in the championship rather than in the prem unless you're like the big clubs in the premier like play champions league and they get to the final of like fa cup carabelle cup like you can play a lot of games but like if you're not in them and you're towards the bottom of the table and you're not in any of the cups, like you don't play that often.

31:22In the championship, you play a lot of games, like, so it is physically hard. But yeah, the Prem is just like, the biggest difference is like the physicality and the speed of everybody. Like everybody's so fast, it's like ridiculous. Obviously technically, again, miles better, but like the physicality side is just insane. Yeah, no. What about everything else? Like just the environment, just obviously there's more fans, there's more money. I assume training's a little bit more serious maybe. I don't know. Is that the case? Yeah, everything like, when you first start playing in the Prem and stuff, you realise how big the Premier League is, even around the world, for example, like broadcasts and media days that you do and how much coverage you get.

32:10I used to watch Match of the Day as a kid all the time. As soon as I got to the Prem, I never watched it because obviously we weren't doing that well and they'd criticise you and pull up certain things and what you can do better and like the whole that side of it is massive. Like the Premier League is like so big and like say you go into these stadiums that are massive and like 60, 70 ,000 people and yeah, it's like, it's mad. Like when you're walking onto a pitch in front of that, it's like mad. But then when you're playing, you're kind of just zoned in and you're kind of just not thinking like where you are.

32:40Like I remember after the game or like a few days after the game, like my friends were like, oh, you played here like this. And I'm like, yeah, kind of forget of like the atmosphere or like being there, you know, because you're just like locked in and you're playing. Yeah, yeah, I suppose. Otherwise you'd get so overwhelmed if you did take it all in. Like it could be a positive and a negative. Yeah, you'll remember it, but you'd be like, shit, like this is real. Yeah, well, as soon as that whistle goes, like you say, you're just like locked in. And then after you look back at like pitches and stuff, it's like, oh, pretty decent, like playing there and stuff and the atmosphere and stuff.

33:09Who would you say the best player you've ever played against would be? Oh, the best player I've played against. it was the time when Man City were like the best like for me like De Bruyne was probably the best like just about everything and what I realised about like Man City at that time was like not only were they good they ran a lot like almost more than everybody else like some of the players were picking up some big numbers in a game of like 13k a game like Bernardo Silva or like De Bruyne and like Rodri like these people like not just relying on their ability and they could like just use their ability but they run more than everybody else as well and De Bruyne and Rodri probably are the best than maybe Kante because Kante runs a lot in midfield and he's quite small and you feel like you've got time on the ball and he's just taking the ball off you and you can't see it and before you know it it's gone but I would say the best is probably De Bruyne just the level of difference is insane and actually playing against him right there just can't get near him Do you ever feel like starstruck when you play against the general these people that you potentially look up to especially like say you said that you're a city fan like you're playing city they're in the prime like you've got all these incredible players like do you ever like shit i did i did not really like i don't really get starstruck these players because you kind of like get used to it of like playing obviously if you're playing for so long and stuff and you realize that everybody's normal yeah pretty much so like it's not when you're in that world but I remember we played Man City for the first time I played Man City for Bristol City away in the cup we got to like semi-final of the Carabao Cup and we got Man City home and away and obviously we were playing against him and I remember I think Aguero came on the pitch he was sub and he came on the pitch and like ran past me and I was a bit like oh fucking hell like I'm on the same pitch as like playing against Aguero who's like unbelievable and that was probably the only time where I was a bit like not starstruck but like you're a bit taken back of like fucking hell it's him do you know what I mean you're playing on pitch but then quickly again you're just like you're there to get the job done and do your job and then after the game shake everybody's hands and just go inside it's more after like you look back and like fucking hell like playing against him sort of thing yeah that was cool yeah um how do you stay healthy because obviously there's so many highs but there's a lot of lows as well and you hear a lot of like horror stories with footballers especially like maybe getting addicted to sleeping tablets or you know just kind of like getting in bad habits yeah how do you stay away from all that because you genuinely are the most down-to-earth person that I've come across I think it's a big part is like my circle around me like my family and my friends like they just keep me grounded and like don't let me go down a bad path you know what I mean like I've got such like a like I say a big support around me like my age and everybody around me like I have like a good team around me that just keeps me yeah like not going down down the wrong path and like I can see that's how I played against like so many gifted lads and like just that outside of football life is just not right and you can tell and then before you know it they're like the ability they have they should be playing in Premier League or like Championship and then they actually know like they're in League 2 or League 1 and like they have the ability to make it but their outside life is just not like where it should be to be honest and like I say they probably have bad people around them that don't advise them or don't we'll probably just all say yes to them rather than say no and saying like no don't do that it's not good for your wear a lot of people like won't really say anything to them yeah have you found that like you've got a lot of like yes people trying to be around you that makes sense because like you are you have a certain level of fame you have a certain level of money and things like this and like people that once knew you try and get in your circle like how do you deal with that because it must happen yeah I feel like I've got my wits about me and I kind of can tell like certain people what they're after and you know do they like me for who I am as a person or what I've got for example and like I say if I don't spot it my friends will spot it or like my family will spot it and they'll just be like yeah that's good and be careful and like I don't know you have your own circle and you don't really let anybody in your own circle like you do like obviously I've got like I've got a big friendship group at home of like 15 people like and they've been my best friends since being in school like year year seven all the way until year 11 um a few have come along the way but majority of it's been like from school and i just enjoy my circle and like i know they know me from when i was a kid and i had nothing like i literally grew up not not nothing like my family like my dad worked really hard and stuff and then i had like a little bit but then they went and then they struggled a lot and then had a bit and then they struggled a lot and like during school and stuff when my friends know me like i had nothing like then now obviously like i'm doing quite well that that's why i won't change my circle because they know me from being like a kid being in school and had nothing yeah what does your family think about that about like you say that the ability of like you can help them you can you know are they proud of you oh yeah like absolutely like i say like my my mom and dad like obviously my whole family as well like brothers and sister and everybody like obviously they are but like my mum and dad especially like are really really proud because like I feel like my dad's living his dream through me because he wanted to be a footballer and played football and stuff and like the next best thing for him is this so like he's like a go to like obviously a bit difficult now I'm in Saudi but like when I was in England like I'd be going to like every game home and away like absolutely loves it and it's like he's living his dream through me sort of thing and yeah he's like super super my family are like really really proud and obviously like everything I've done for them and they've done for me like it's not just me doing things for them like they do a lot for me a lot it's a team effort right it is a team effort and it's like I say I will not be in this position I am now without the people around me definitely not yeah um what made you want to move away from UK football yeah so it was uh I was coming to my end of my contract and had a really, really good season with Burnley.

39:47I think I scored like 18 goals. We got like 100 points. Obviously got promoted to the Prem and stuff and people will be like, oh, you got promoted to the Prem, like surely you're going to stay? And I was like, absolutely love my time at Burnley. Like, feel like it's like home and stuff for me there. And it was a difficult decision, but I was just ready for something new. Like I played in the Prem, I've been relegated out of the Prem, I've been promoted to the Prem a few times like I kind of did everything I played at all the stadiums and I was just ready for something new like I don't know I just wanted to I wanted to finish on a high and I did I couldn't have finished on a higher note really like doing really well and getting promoted and stuff and I just fancied maybe a little bit of sun as well but yeah I just fancied something different and I was looking like all my options whether I go to like Italy, Spain Saudi Greece, Turkey like everywhere I was looking at I was like okay let me just see what's out there and see what fits right with me and then yeah the decision came like we've been in Saudi like do I want to go and it was obviously a big decision because it's not just a two hour flight like it's seven hours and I was going to live out there on my own so like it's a big decision but yeah like absolutely love it yeah and what's it What's it like playing football over there?

41:12Yeah, it's really good. Everyone always goes on about the standard and what's it like and stuff. The standard is a lot higher than what people think. A lot of the best players in the world or have been the best players in the world and play over there, you get a lot of really, really good talent. But it's very difficult playing in 45 degree heat at times. Sometimes the fitness side of it is really, really hard. You do two runs. At the minute now, it's 45 degrees and you're trying to run and it's like, it's really, really hard. But the standard wise and the living wise and stuff, I really like it.

41:45It's very chill. Like my family, my mum and dad come over all the time. And yeah, it's just like a nice life. Like just relaxing, obviously in the sun and stuff and playing football. Like I just really enjoy it, yeah. Is that, like you say, the standard is, like you say, better than what people think are there. What about like all the facilities and stuff like that? like is it a different level from like the Premier League because I feel like a lot of people think that obviously if there's a lot of cash over there the facilities would be better are they or are they not as good or I can only speak obviously for obviously the top clubs there like the facilities are unbelievable my team yeah the good facilities like we're just getting a brand new gym and stuff stadium's really nice it's like a brand new stadium I think it holds like 15 ,000 capacity sort of facilities wise yeah they're good yeah but the ones here obviously in England are very very good obviously the ones that are in the prime and stuff and Burnley where I've come from like facilities are really really good but like yeah the club I'm at like the good facilities are you treated like treated the same if that makes sense like are you is it just as serious like do you need to be in on time every single day like you was in the Premier League yeah they care about their football a lot over there like you know it's all like you're walking around like malls and stuff and like Like, there's a lot of, like, football tops everywhere and, like, kids in, like, the football tops.

43:10Like, they're really proud of their football over there and they love it. So, obviously, like, they do treat you, like, unbelievable, really, and they can't do enough for you. Like, honestly, they're so friendly and, like, love you, really. But, obviously, if you don't win and you're not doing well, it's kind of the same as over here. Like, you've just got to accept that, like, you're going to get a bit of abuse. It's just like part and parcel being in football, that doesn't change because you're over there. If anything, it might even be worse at times. Yeah, no. And then with yourself personally, how serious do you take everything outside of football?

43:46Because I'm always intrigued because I feel like there's probably two types of footballers. Ones that are super, super gifted that really don't care about what they do outside of football. And then there's people that maybe are less talented, but do everything to get there. if that makes sense. Yeah, like, I'm very, like, professional in what I do and stuff. Like, don't get wrong every now and again. Like, you know, like, in the summers and stuff, like, I'll enjoy myself and take a little bit of time off and stuff. But, yeah, normally, like, I enjoy doing it. So, like, I enjoy being professional.

44:19I enjoy watching what I eat, making sure I'm eating the right things. I enjoy, like, going for runs and, like, yeah, just making sure that I do everything right. Because if I don't, if I don't do well during the week, say for example, I eat bad food or I don't know, I just don't feel great, then on a game day, it's in my head where I want to give myself the best chance on a game day. So I have no excuses. I've trained well this week. I've ate well. I've recovered right. I've done all my recovery stuff. I've gone to the gym and done all that. Okay, I'm ready for the game now. and if I don't do that then in my head I'm like oh like I didn't recover right this week I've got like oh is this why I'm feeling a little bit sore or like it's in my head so like it's just naturally I make sure that I try and do everything right like as much as possible to give me the best chance really.

45:11And are you doing all this like alone or do you have like a nutritionist or a sports psychologist within the team or you get in regular like body work like massage and stuff like that or are you just doing it all by yourself uh in in saudi i do a lot on my own like gym wise and stuff because i kind of know like what i'm doing and stuff like obviously you get massages and so you're not getting like gym team sessions yeah you can you can get that but at the minute the the gym that where we are is under i get in the new gym and stuff so it's not like the best at the minute so like i do a lot of my stuff so you're just going to like a pure gym around the on cracking on i did but where i live has got like a gym and stuff on yeah a bit bougier than pure gym a little bit yeah so it's uh yeah so i do like my gym and stuff in there but when i was here like i used to work with somebody where like i get like obviously i still do it at burnley like when i was at burnley for example i would do it but like outside of that i don't know like sometimes at football i felt like if i was training in the morning and i'm like obviously like tired if it It was hard.

46:13And then like I have to go straight into the gym after. Like I'd find it quite difficult to like work at my max. So then I'd go home, rest a little bit. Then at night I'd go to the gym, like with my guy who I train with and stuff at home. So I would do that. So I was doing that for a few years while I was here. And then there, again, cause I'm playing every like three, four days or whatever it is, it's quite difficult to get it in. But yeah, I would just go to the gym and do it myself over there, to be honest. Cause it's kind of like know what I'm doing now and I know what my body needs and stuff.

46:42And what is like typical gym for you? What exercises are you doing for footballers? Well, I was doing a lot of like, I was trying to improve my speed a lot and like my agility and stuff. And I did that with a guy I was working with here. Is that a lot of like plyometrics and stuff like that? Yeah, everything, to be honest, like literally everything. It would take like two hour sessions sometimes of like trying to fit everything in, all the right stuff and that. And yeah, it worked. and then over there kind of know all that now of like you say like just doing the normal stuff of like say plyometrics and you know just like squats and everything you can think of really it's not like your typical bro lifting session where like you go to the gym three times a week one of them's chest and triceps one of them's back and biceps one of them's legs is it kind of like that or is it kind of like very sport specific like you're doing this exercise to get faster you're doing this exercise to jump higher you're doing this exercise to build strength because you need weight and mass to be able to barge someone off the ball yeah i would do like one session a week of doing that of like position specific stuff and like you say increasing my speed and all that but then i would do like two or three sessions of just going to the gym and so you just do typical brawl sessions yes like because i enjoy doing that as well sometimes and And I enjoy looking after my body and stuff.

48:06And yeah, it's probably not exactly what I need for being on a football pitch. But also I just enjoy doing that as well. But I would make sure once a week I'm doing my right stuff that's going to improve me on a game day and stuff like that. If I don't do it at football, for example, I would go home and do it. But if not, I'd just go to the gym and do normal sessions, really. I've always done that, like go to the gym with friends and stuff and just lift together and a bit of socialising and do that. but I'd always make sure like once a week I would get like the the right things for the game like because you can't really do too much during the week it's normally like I say like one session you would do because if you do too much then you get tired for a game and you can feel it like massively in the game like if I've done if I did two leg sessions a week for example like position specific stuff come to the game I fatigue really quick so I have to like be careful like how much time I spend doing that sort of stuff is there anyone that you played with like in your career that just like loves the gym maybe a little bit too much yeah there's there's a few like there's a few people like who's the strongest um who does anyone like i'm trying to think of like a lot a lot of people who are that strong are just like naturally just like that strong and like they won't really lift too much in a gym to be able to do so a lot of footballers actually don't like doing gym really they have to do because they have to do it yeah so like not many people would be in the gym lifting heavy and getting like really big and stuff some of them will naturally be naturally be like that where some people just do like leg sessions and what you have to do because they have to do it and it's part of being football so like some of them don't really take it too seriously do you ever get kind of like weighed or anything like that and like you've got a perfect weight for you yeah so like i'm quite strict on like for me to be at my max of like around 76 kg like if I'm like 77 or 78 kg in my head I'm like shit like might be a bit heavy this week going into this game for example obviously you do body fats and and all that sort of stuff but I try and like keep myself around 76 kg pretty much like within a kg because if if I weigh myself I'm like 78 plays mind tricks on me I'm like oh my god I need to like bring it back a kg even though it could be like water weight or like something very small like I try and make sure I'm a certain weight because if I'm over, I can't run as much as what I can.

50:29I'm like, because there was a time where I remember I was at Barnsley, so I was at Preston and I was on loan, I went on loan to Barnsley for like four months. And I remember they're saying like, you need to like bulk up a little bit now. Like, so I was like, all right, okay. And I was doing like two gyms. I go in the morning to train in the gym, like lifting heavy. I go home at night and lift heavy, like gym weights to get like big. and obviously there's not a lot of me anyway. I can't get massive, but for me, I got like really big and like, I just couldn't move on a pitch. Like I was very stiff and like, wasn't my usual self.

51:05So I was like, I need to rein that in a little bit. Like it's obviously not good for me, like getting like really, really big. And then that's where I was like, I know what way it works for me. I need to stay at that. And if I'm at that, then I know I can. So you've not got someone, like you said, a Bansley, like there's someone telling you to kind of like get bulky and stuff like that. Like, where are they getting there? advice from like is there a certain like figure that you look at like for footballers for each position or whatever not really it's more of like looking at you on a pitch like if you're getting pushed off the ball or in training you're getting like pushed off the ball and stuff and like i say when you're going into men's football obviously everyone's like bigger stronger you've got obviously some people can get away with it you're smaller and like like say the quicker and stuff or like certain positions you can kind of get away with it but for my position playing center mid like in the middle of the pitch like you need to be able to be strong and run around basically and obviously at that point it was like you're playing against like men you need to all cup you're getting pushed off the ball quite easy so i was like well i need to sort that out so i was like in the gym like double sessions and then i got to a point where like my family was like you're right like you're too big now like you need to stop i wasn't like that big but like they could tell like i was bigger than what i was and was very stiff and not being able to run And so obviously you learn along the way then, like I know it's good for my body.

52:23I know what I need to do to make myself be in the best shape possible. And I have my own little routine of what that is, of like what I eat, like what weight I have to be, what body fat is good for me. Well, I was about to say that, like body fat percentage, is there a certain percentage that the club wants you to be? Because I remember talking to Josh Chandler from Rugby League and he was like, yeah, a lot of the lads used to come off off season and they'd be put into fat camp and it'd be a fat camp. Yeah, that happens. It's like you'll get your body fat done before you leave for the end of the season.

52:58And then they say you've got to come back within like a few percent over it. It depends. It's different. People test body fat different. So it's like whatever your club is doing, like what percent it is, or like you do a Dexter scan or like all these things, like depending on which club you're at. And then you've got to come back in a certain thing for you. and if you're not like I remember one season I came back from I think I was at Burnley and one I came back and I was like obviously I weren't fat or anything like that because I can't get fat but I was over my percentage what I should have come back what back to and I was put in fat camp not like fat camp but like you just got to do a little bit extra now to get it down it's pre-season you always get it down but like yeah that was a time where I was like oh maybe I need to still in the off season take good care of myself properly and then ever since then like I always come back what I need to be, to be honest.

53:48Yeah, no, it really is interesting. I thought everyone would be, obviously you mentioned that you're on it, but I thought it'd be like imposed on you a lot more from the club. I thought it'd be like, you've got to do this gym regime. You've got to be at this fitness level. You've got to do this fitness test or whatever. And it'd be kind of like that all year round, if that makes sense. But I suppose if you're performing, that's all that matters. Yeah, it's true. If you're performing, yeah. and like they can only control what they can control that training so when you're in training what they can like put on food for example or like they can test your weight every day like sometimes you again depending on who your fitness coach is or which club you're at is like some will test on a Monday your weight some will test every couple of days on your weight and if you're obviously putting on more they're like come on what's going on at home sort of thing and there is a lot of support like they'll give food for you to take home if you need to like obviously the young lads who are living on their own they'll take food from the club and stuff is everything like prepped for you yeah it can be yeah like you'll go into it and it's all like food is ready like a buffet style like good food and stuff and if you want to take it home you say oh can you box me up this please and like you work with the chefs and stuff and they'll give you boxes to take home for a couple of days if you need to or you get it fresh every day uh so like they do their part and like you say they put gym sessions on and you have to do it but people just people don't do it like their max is like what you think yeah because some people just just want to play football that's it all they're bothered about is just playing football on a saturday playing a game and that's it well obviously you get some people who are more professional than others less professional but when you've got a team full of 30 lads like not everyone can be the same you know what i mean yeah um and with yourself how long do you see yourself playing football for i thought about this obviously i'm getting a bit old now i'm 30 years of age so like naturally you start thinking like okay how long have i got left or do I want to play but for me I've been very lucky with like injuries wise like pretty much haven't had any bar from like impact injuries or like whether I've like done my ligaments in my ankle through like rolling my ankle or broke a rib or like small injuries like that for example but like missing games I've barely missed any games through like muscle injuries or anything like that which obviously I've been quite lucky with but I put that down to like my preparation and stuff and how I look after myself.

56:14Obviously, some people get injuries even though they look after themselves. So like I get it can happen. But yeah, in my head, I'm like, I'd play until like, in my head, I've got like 36 in my head. I play 36, 37. But again, if I can keep playing after that, like I'll keep playing. If I feel good and I'm like fit, again, no injuries. I think your body will tell you like when you're ready. Like if it started like in a few years time, like getting a lot of injuries and us to get out of bed in the morning, And I'll probably be like, I might call it a day. But for me, I'm like, I'm fit. Don't really get many injuries.

56:47I'll just play until I don't want to play, which hopefully 36, 37. And if it's more than that, it's more than that. But in my head, like if I get to 36, I'll be happy. Definitely. I love that. I love how much you love football, if that makes sense. Because I feel like there's probably a lot of people out there that think of it as a chore and a job. And that's all I think it is. is there a lot of people out like is that like reality yeah a lot of people just yeah like not like just play football just because like it's a job and they have to and like you'll speak to people like yeah i'll retire at like 33 44 i don't really want to carry on anymore and like that's just what it is but obviously again you get people who love football and for me i'm like obviously i love it like a lot so i'll keep playing as long as possible until people tell me i should i should retire if i'm not good enough and i'm still trying to still trying to find I'm sure they'll tell you right 40 years of age oh yeah yeah they'll definitely tell me you'll quickly realize but yeah if I'm 40 years of age still trying to play and I'm getting more abuse saying you're 40 years of age come on you need to you need to stop now but I know get to 41 but no yeah like 36 I'm hoping to yeah out of your career so far what has been your lowest point and then following with that what's been your highest point good question where's my lowest point my lowest point was probably getting relegated out of a Premier League when I was captain.

58:08Like that season was probably the hardest season for me mentally wise. Just through like getting beat and like being a captain, you want to help and you don't want it to happen to the club and you know what it means to the fans and everybody. And you're like the leader of this team. Like it's not your fault why you get relegated, but like you're in the line, like you're the captain. You shouldn't be letting things happen. But it's football. It's Premier League. It's the hardest league in the world. Like it's so difficult to stay up. It was like the last few years, it was like whoever team got promoted tend to got relegated for like two, three years in a row.

58:44And it was like, the Premier's just like so hard. Is that true? Is the level just getting better and better and better? Yeah, like without question, the level is just like getting better and better and better and getting really, really difficult. Yeah. Like now a few championship teams have gone up like and stayed up because they've invested a lot, which obviously everyone's spending so much money now. It's like, if you don't, like if a club goes up in a championship and spends like 200 million on players, for example, it's not guaranteed that you stay up because the level is so high and you have teams that are spending like 300, 400 million and stuff and spending 100 million on players and stuff.

59:17And like for a team like Burnley, for example, if they spend like 20 million on a player, it's a lot of money for Burnley, a lot. But like if another team didn't, it's like not really a lot of money for them. So it just makes the level like so much harder. But yeah, that was definitely the lowest point in my career, like the hardest. Because one of them even got sent off in a game and we ended up getting beat. And that was probably the lowest point in that season, was getting sent off and getting beat. And I just knew I was going to get hounded here. Like, yeah, it was hard, really, really hard.

59:53But then the highest moment in my career was probably, it's twice to be honest. So it was probably getting promoted out of the championship twice. I think we got like 103 points and we lost maybe one game that season, maybe two or maybe two games. We didn't lose pretty much any games that season. That was like one of the highest. And then again, went up to the prem. That was the lowest season, got relegated. And then the next season was probably the highest because we got 100 points and we finished second on goal difference. but we got promoted and I had like the best season of my career I scored 18 goals from midfield like and I was captain and got the club back up to the Premier League like not just me obviously but I had a really big part of that and I was really proud of the season that I had to finish like say finish on a high and be like I've left the club now like in the Premier League like I've done all I can do I've done all I can do and put it in the best position really for me so like them three seasons was like I say the highest the lowest and then the highest again of like them three seasons was definitely like the maddest three seasons yeah would you rather take that or just be like bang average for three seasons no I'd take that all day I'd take that all day like honestly like playing in the championship obviously the Premier League is like the best league in the world and you want to play playing at all these stadiums it's great but it's difficult to win a game of football it's so hard what do you what do you prefer and I know it's probably hard I had you answering this, but getting battered all the time in the Premier League or winning all the time in the Championship?

1:01:33I think about this a lot, to be honest. I would probably say winning every game in the Championship because you're full of confidence. You're loving life. Everything's great. Everything's really, really good. And when you're in the Prem, once you've played in the Prem and you've played at all these nice stadiums, good to say against all the big teams and stuff and like say you know you you're going to play man city for example the build-up's good then after the game i've been beat 5-0 before then it's like that's just the worst feeling in the world like it's not a great way in the championship like you're winning majority of the games and you're scoring and you're playing well and you're chasing promotion and that promotion feeling is like unbelievable like the best feeling in the world of like getting promoted is like it's unbelievable yeah so i'll probably take championship to be honest people might sound that's mad but it's like if I'd never played in the Prem you'd take getting battered in the Prem all day long because you're playing in the Premier League and that's like when you're a kid that's all you aspire to be is playing in the Premier League it's like being an Olympian yeah but then after you've done it a couple of times like if you get beat every week it's just not it's kind of like you going into every game I assume you're going into every game thinking oh like don't embarrass yourself yeah pretty much like He's just fighting to win and you know it's going to be so difficult.

1:02:54Like so difficult where it's still difficult in the championship, but when you're on that run of winning every game, like, yeah, there's just no better feeling. Yeah. What are you going to do after all this is over? Like, are you going to move back to Warrington or Manchester? When my career's finished? Yeah. When you retire, what are you going to do? Are you going to set yourself up somewhere sunny? I'm always like really intrigued because like a lot of people, like, struggle with it a lot of footballers I assume like struggle with like that identity everything else that comes with being a footballer like you're no longer that yeah I thought about this to be honest and like after you finish football like obviously my whole life I've been known as somebody who plays football and then when the day you have to retire like you're not a footballer anymore you're an ex-footballer or like you don't want to be that guy who's like hey I used to play football like I used to play football type of thing and trying to hang on to that so like yeah I think after my career like i mean in my head yeah i'll probably live in manchester um and then just i have stuff going on outside of football like a couple of businesses and stuff that like you talk about that do um yeah so i just have like a housing uh properties in the lake district um me and like a business partner do that and stuff and like airbnbs and stuff but like really nice so i've been doing that for like six years got like like six houses and stuff there and you know they're really really nice and then obviously do like the stocks and shares all that sort of stuff invest there and then I'm about to open up a paddle court basically like a whole paddle thing which I can't reveal the location just yet you're good at paddle I would like to say I'm yeah I like to say I'm good at paddle I'm I would say yeah I'm I'm good at paddle not the best obviously but like I've had all my mates and stuff I would say I'm the I'm the best and I love it a lot to be honest.

1:04:48So I'm just in the process of doing that. So I think life after football is just like play paddle, play golf, fitness, get more into fitness, like running and doing all that. That's why obviously like coming on here and speaking to you, like it's quite inspiring seeing like what you do as well of like how mentally tough it is, even like what you do in your world. And it obviously is the same in football, but when I obviously think of you, for example, I'm like, some of the stuff you do is like mad and I want to, when football's finished, because obviously it's hard to do that now with football, I'd love to get into like that sort of thing and take that probably more serious.

1:05:27Oh, sick. That's actually very nice that you said that, to be fair. What would you do then? Would it be running? Would it be high rocks? Would it be CrossFit? I think all of it, to be honest. Just enjoy doing all of it and be involved in that sort of, fitness world because I've always wanted to be what do you think you'd be the best at because I think you hold your own yeah I'd probably say like I really want to do probably like more long distance running like marathons and stuff like I want to try for that I've only ever done one marathon that was in lockdown and I woke up one me and my best mate was like training in the off season there because obviously COVID happened we had to step away from football and I was like that's when I was doing a lot of running like 5k's 10k's 20k's and they got to a point where my mate was like they still playing us on a Thursday and it was like Saturday we're going to run a marathon they're like oh we didn't train for a marathon or anything he's like yeah we're just gonna and I was like all right yeah sound so I ran it and obviously realized you probably need to do a bit of training for a marathon it was like the hardest thing in the world but like finding time to do that now is obviously very difficult but I think I don't know what would be best i probably i'd like to think that and try more of doing that but also see what i'll enjoy i've done a few high rocks here and there um like a bit of training for it obviously never done a full high rocks and stuff and maybe one day i will do that after football um but yeah just anything to do that to be honest and see what i like yeah oh that's sick that is sick thank you for today appreciate it i appreciate it having me on it's been very enjoyable