London Marathon 2026 with Alfie Manthorpe, Hugo Fry & Jake Dearden

0:00Alfie Manthorpe, Hugo Fry, welcome to the pod. How are you feeling boys? Good, feeling good. Should we just let people know what is this weekend? London Marathon. It's London Marathon weekend. What's the official name? TCS. New balance, get all the air. Don't know what it's called actually. I'm running 42k in London, I'm not even sure I'm allowed to call it the London Marathon. They're the brand regulations and stuff. so they're so bad yeah yeah i got shut down yesterday for handing out packs of tilda because they're not a sponsor well so you was at the xbox yeah yeah and i was handing out packs of tilda and they were like you can't do that here did they have a booth no oh yeah yeah some strange guy off the street handing out rice yeah it was pretty dodgy who is the main sponsor new bounce and then Lucas Aid for that hydration so you can't talk about anything so I get it though because at the end of the day London is one of if not the biggest marathon in the world so if you're not a sponsor like why would they want people to come off the back of it when they don't need the publicity it's like if you want to talk about us then pay us kind of thing I guess yeah true someone needs to make the pee it's not very good for athletes but it makes sense for them I guess You don't have any regulations on your bottles, do you?

1:23I don't think so. Or the kit that you run in? So I had to actually send the kit in to get checked to make sure it's the right amount of... You can't have too big of a logo and some other things. And it also gets checked tomorrow. They measure it and check the shoes and stuff as well. That's crazy. So just for reference, you're in the Elite Pen. Yep. And you're in the Championship Pen. So is this like Premier League and Championship Football? Is that what we're talking about? Champions League and League One. Yeah, yeah. I'd agree. Yeah. Because also it's like a big range. Yeah. Championship is like what?

1:56238 to 216. All right. Okay. So you're just on the brink. Next year you'll be in the elite. Probably. Not tomorrow. Sunday goes well. That's the plan. And you were saying your strategy is to start at the front of that wave. Yeah. Try and hang on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There'll be like not even a metre. By the start it's like right. Like you can get right on top of them. What do you have to do for the warm-up though? Do you have to stand in the pen for a long time before? No, they're pretty quick on it. It's like five minutes, five, ten minutes before. So it's not... Also like your warm-up is so hard.

2:33In those like there's a... In the championship it's all on grass. It's on Blackheath. And so it's just this massive like kind of park. And then people just like run in like probably like a 300 meter circle all together on grass. It's just like ruining your super shoes. it's like it's all wet it's grim and then the queues the toilets are like so long and you have to bring your own toilet paper because they run out it's just like what's it like is everyone like chatting or is everyone just like zoned in not talking to the person next to them it's some people are like proper like don't want to be disturbed but to us i always find actually like the quicker guys in that group actually the far more chatty like chilled out people like i was so surprised the first time i ever did like an elite start was bath half yeah and like everyone was actually really chatty like no one was kind of in a corner by themselves which was actually surprising because you'd think the better you get the more like locked in focused you think people would be but actually i guess that's staying calm is half the battle probably for you guys no i think the more you do it the more you just know what you can control and everything else is just chill it's almost better to be calm and chilled like we had a joke about your shoes yeah example it's like it's not intentional because i'm not just thinking oh let me go make a joke but like it's that you know that good mood is kind of what you need before a race it gives you a bit of a buzz and i find when you're like too serious about it or like too locked in you almost start getting stressed and stress is never good for your for your body you usually feel a bit tighter and things like that so it is a good thing to just be naturally a bit more upbeat I think.

4:10Me and Hugo were talking though, we feel like you are Mr Lockton. I am but in like a very specific way if that makes sense. Talk us through the next couple of days, what are they going to look like for you? I've got my timing and my phone. Oh I need this. I love this, we can compare. Hugo actually, whilst you're getting times up do you want to talk through your strategy? Your day, obviously we'll go tomorrow, the day before the marathon. yeah no tomorrow tomorrow will be a bit better like today i thought it was gonna be a today i've been poor on my especially my carb load well you said that this has been your first dinner proper meal yeah yeah i got i went to a new balance it's 5 p.m yeah 5 p.m and you've not i went to a new balance event and they said it was brunch that all they had was ot bars and um new balance aren't serious about performance yeah clearly and like it was awful like it was so bad there was a couple of pots of fruit just like that and then a couple of croissant like small ones and then i had to go to the marathon expo and so i had like a like a this like a wrap and then yeah first meal was uh and a flapjack and then just that poke bowl so i'm on like well you need to 100 grabs of course so yeah compared to yours how much are you going for I'm not counting you're not counting I'm just eating a lot nice okay I've probably had about 100 grams of carbs of rice cake so far though nice 20 rice cakes no like 17 rice cakes probably 100 grams um why rice cakes just convenient honestly I've never had them before but I just saw them when I was shopping for this trip and I was like it's a snack in my bag what's yeah you know better than a plain bagel I've seen you pull out like a raw bagel I've got plain bagels on me as well so yeah i'll be having a few of those it's a fresh nice bagel having them plain is fine see don't deep it it's just like a pack of sweets though no because that's like that's just gonna go through you yeah but it's still carbs in it yeah but a lot of things are just carbs like it like you could have a chocolate cake it's gonna have a lot of carbs in yeah but it has fats in as well that is just carbs and a little bit of protein but don't you think they're a bit too quick acting they're all just going in your muscles aren't they yeah i don't know i don't know i might have a few more of these yeah they're nice the micros are great they're incredible i picked out the three worst colors hang on a minute mr tilder over here yeah rice is the best carb come on microwaved rice isn't the best no actually pure rice is the best because it sits in your stomach it doesn't sit in your stomach sorry it doesn't have any gluten in it it's just easy and it's a complex carb which that isn't right yeah is it or is it more simple i think it's a simple cup because it's white like white rice if you get like brown rice it's got a fiber shell on it right okay um also if you have rice cold it actually has a different starch concentration and you shouldn't microwave your rice should you microwave your rice or not this is where you really can't answer why am i actually discussing this i'm a serious runner you don't have to you're gonna trip up here if you say you don't have to you can eat it out of the pack i've asked them and it's safe right it doesn't taste as good i promise you but like it's well i'm thinking about like the microplastics yeah that's what i'm saying it for as well oh the microplastics oh is that bullshit oh i've never worried about microplastics in my life look you know i've done a lot worse in my life than worrying about microplastics you know it's true to be fair it's like i hate people who like preach about health and fitness and i see them sucking on a vape like shut up you know oh you're drinking a green smoothie because that's gonna help yeah it is true it is true you know what like so much of this world that i'm gonna call out a friend actually i'm not gonna say his name but just so he knows who he is yesterday he's all into like better himself at the minute like health and fitness uh he's going to therapy like doing a lot for himself.

8:05He's like, oh, I might start smoking again. I was like, he's like, oh, it's cool for summer, isn't it? I was like, no. But he's just like, so you're trying all this effort to, you know, be healthier and then he wants to smoke for summer because it's a bit more aesthetic. It fits with the Instagram vibe. Yeah. Yeah. Smokey's back in, I think, on Instagram. I don't know why. I did see that. Yeah. I think Will and George are part to blame when they have it after a marathon. Like, every single after a marathon they're having a cigarette as one of the posts. I'm going to call George out actually. He didn't actually, he doesn't smoke.

8:37He didn't even take a drag of that cigarette. He literally took that cigarette and didn't do anything. It's propaganda. It's propaganda. Like he doesn't actually because yeah, George is too into his fitness. Yeah. He's too serious about his fitness. And they're also like really bad for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Objectively, terrible. So I don't know why he did that. Do you want me to go through these timings? Yeah, please. So tomorrow, I've got it timed out as well, but that's kind of like you know we've got the parallel the panel and then i've got to do 10 a.m i've got activation shakeout drills strides 12 till 2 hotel lunch can i just quickly ask on the shakeout what do you do um tomorrow i'll be doing like two miles easy 3.2k easy um and then i'll do full set drills some plyometrics and then i'll do two minute tempo two by 200 and then like four by 100 and then 2k cool now and fuel a lot in between that quickly right it's actually a really good one to do I do enjoy doing that how long does it take from start to finish I mean including all the drills it'll be about an hour because you're doing drills and activations and stuff but it's not too bad I try to take a gel in it as well especially before a big race after that hotel checking at 3 athlete briefing at 5 dinner between 6 and 8 and then I've got to hand in my bottles at some point tomorrow as well and make them but then look at the timings that's all pre-race all every single one of these is something that i'm doing pre-race on sunday on sunday what yeah so talk to sunday 6 a.m wake up have water pasta and instant coffee oh so you've made a cold pasta and a hay fever tablet yeah i've cooked it already okay i get i get hate for eating cold rice i'd say cold pasta is worse No, you just get hate because you're Hugo Frey.

10:24Yeah, that's true. 10 past 6, shake out. 6.20, shower. 6.45, Gnomeo and beat it shot. Hashtag ad. Yeah, only for one, just a Gnomeo. I will ask you about that after, actually. Meet in main reception at 6.45, depart from hotel at 7.00, have a bagel at 7.05, have flycarb at 7.35, 8 a.m. arrive at the race, 8.05 have a banana, 8.35 have some Belvitas. 8.45 instant coffee and warm-up 9.10 gel 9.25 go to the start line and 9.35 race yeah there you go and i still don't even know how to get to blackheath well i don't either but yeah but you you're you don't need that you don't even worry about that so have you got like an escort that like drive yeah we've got we've got like a elite athlete coach and stuff um to be honest a lot of like i don't know i don't know how to word this a lot of like these africans have like a big team around them joke because it's not their first language so they get like taken around and sometimes it's like a whole squad of people like just to help them get where they need to go but for me yeah it's just gonna be me but then obviously i also can just go with them are you staying in the same hotel to everyone else yeah i only got one night though not not good enough to get more than one unfortunately uh who solves that out by the way is it london marathon yeah yeah i think the elite organizer is a guy called spencer barden he also did bath half i think um i mean it's my debut at the end of the day so i don't expect to be treated like royalty but um yeah a few people have been in the hotel since like tuesday i think wednesday or something like that fair play yeah and i think that's tower bridge and then it's apparently like an hour coach to greenwich an hour like 45 minutes to an hour because it's all the roads uh messed up aren't they sorry would then not just do better by surely there's a hotel at the start line there's hotels everywhere yeah but i think it's finishing as well yeah you don't want to be trekking back to greenwich it'd be harder to get back than it is to get there in the morning yeah like you wouldn't be able to get back to the start line and we've got we've got like coaches like even that i don't know how we have we literally have coaches that are scheduled at certain times and like where are they going to go because they need to get back to the hotel which is tower bridge it's like how do you get a coach to tower bridge in the middle of a marathon they i don't really understand yeah you you don't have to think about that that's why you got management i do think about it though that's the problem it's good to take your mind off things yeah true but yeah um nomeo and beat route are you having both on sunday morning yeah uh i i've been like loading loading beatry and the week for one and i have two i don't think i don't know about any of these things but for me if it's worked once i'm just gonna do it because i think it might work like nomio every time i take it for a session it's worked so then it just builds confidence i've heard you're meant to take nomio the night before as well no no is that not no definitely not okay it actually i'm pretty sure i got told to definitely only have the dosage it says really and like don't don't load it don't double it up or anything like that okay um so i have that three hours before yeah but i do load b true as well so like two i have one today one yesterday one the before and then two tomorrow yeah exactly yeah because also be i think also people are like oh i'll get on the beetroot thing and they've never done it before and that will it just wrecks your it wrecks your stomach it's awful as well yeah i hate beetroot i hate beetroot yeah it tastes horrible it's i don't know how you say it tastes nicer i don't hate nomier oh nomio is so much nicer nomio like i'd i'd drink them genuinely if there was like 10 of them there i'd just like the the broccoli one right yeah yeah it's got like but it's like overpowered by the lemon is it yeah i think it's more lemony than broccoli is it lemon yeah oh god i need to read the back of these things i think someone will tell me to do something i'll take it that sounds awful actually test me i promise you i'm clean so times what we're going for obviously we're two days out you've done your training there's nothing that you can do now what are your predicted times like what you're feeling like you're going to go for both of you we'll start off with you Hugo uh I am gonna set I'm gonna do hopefully first half in 67 30 so we've got a pet last year I tried to do like 217 216 and it was just like no man's land and so by halfway I'd done so much work and like been thinking so much about like trying to hit my splits that i think i just like overdid it overstressed like i just it was a hot day as well whereas this year i know there's a pacer is there a pacer first yeah right okay and i know there's a couple of guys in that group so if i can get to halfway feeling like fresh ish as far as you're not looking down i'm not looking down i'm just like following someone who i know i think it's adam clark so like he's a pretty he should be pretty much go all the way yeah well i said well how much would it cost he's going to 30 and i was like how much how much would it cost like for you to go to like 38 39 because after that it's you know you just have to put your head down but yeah i'd love to be feeling comfortable halfway my coach has been punchy he thinks i can do quicker but i just want to make sure i can get halfway in a reasonable shape and then i mean anything under 215 would be like at 217 high in december anything lower than 215 is like that would be that since i saw you last you've been putting in some like serious training though aren't you they say it was like you was i think you just started with your coach or yeah a couple months in your coach but like you've been like really really consistent yeah and not that you wasn't before yeah for sure it's it's more dense work as well that's what he's been kind of saying like the volume's not really changed but it's just the intensity has and definitely done more but i think also it's kind of riding the fine line of i do feel very fatigued and so i'm like if i'd if the marathon was like two weeks before i'd probably be feeling a bit more confident it's just fatigue's kind of caught up to me but again i think i might just be because i'm a couple of days out and might be a bit nervous but you know we'll see i agree with that by the way like i feel like if you asked me to run the marathon bath half weekend yeah i would have been like yep two or six let's go like i felt so good yeah and these last the biggest weeks what have come since i think that's just the nature of marathon training like you get a bit sluggish and it's about timing it perfectly for for sunday obviously but i agree with mario as well on your coach on i think you should be running quicker but i'm doing the same yeah i think i think we're both probably racing where our fastest 5k will be the last 5k that's kind of the goal yeah that's because i've never done i've done one four times everyone has been a slog by the end and i just i just want one where it's like you finish because that's the best part like you when you experience it like going from embankment home like to bucking palace is like honestly the craziest experience but every time i've been in the bin and i just honestly it's not it's not fun i don't mind suffering i don't mind i'm sure you're the same but like i'd be nice to actually be able to take in yeah and just know like because also for me if i get a 2 14 low or high it's not going to change my personally i don't think it's going to change my life so like having a second kilometer less probably will make a huge difference sometimes how i feel especially in that first half so yeah just being i think probably being a bit more sensible and i'd love to attack the second half feeling good you know so you're gonna aim to negative split it yeah that's the aim that's the aim but we'll see love that so in answer to the question uh 215 it's up to 215 to go sick yeah so 2930 for me that's the group 209 30 yeah i was deciding whether to go with that group or the 208 flat group because it's a debut and it's just more about like taking off a good day rather than trying to have like a really exceptional one um so the goal will be 2930 and if that feels good then and is the pace group for that yeah yeah because it's the european qualification standard um they'll probably be quite a big group i think going for that um but then hopefully 35k if i feel good at that point i'll probably allow myself to to run a bit quicker but until then it's just going to be at that pace and what is that per kilometer three oh like mid three ohs three oh six i think three oh six something like that three or five and then if you was to kick on that last 5k what do you think you could do to be honest i was just saying this um at puma when we were there like i want to have like the third fastest 5k on the day behind kipling so they'll definitely have the fact the third fastest final 5k sorry and i think i'll maybe try and run like this is all speculative like i could be absolutely done at that point but like 14 mid 14s like 14 30 14 40 something like that um but that's all me saying that hoping i'll feel that good but yeah the dream set 5k tv at the last five but we'll We'll see.

19:32Yeah. They'll probably drop like a 13-something in the final five game. What do you think they're going to get? I think they'll get 2-0-0 something. Like 2-0 and then some change. So just for the people that are listening in, there's two guys that are like favourites. Yep. What's their names? Is it Sebastian Solway? Sebastian Solway, yeah. Sebastian Solway and then Jacob Puget-Polimo. Solway maybe could have the edge in terms of head... he's the adidas guy yeah and then the other guy's nike yeah it's nike and they're both wearing probably the new well so he's wearing the evo threes the 100 gram shoes yeah and then completely will be wearing the alphafly 4 i think because yeah from like shoes what are coming out from the brands as well like adidas have brought everything they have for this i guess with the evo for three which is now the lightest race shoe like ever uh or at least in this era but then nike won't really have that same caliber of shoe until later this year for elite athletes.

20:35So I'm not saying that's going to be the decider, but I'm just saying that Kip Limo, if he does go and do Chicago, for example, later this year, I think that's why he'll run maybe sub two. What's the year he ran before? Two or two. Two or two. But that was in his second marathon and he's ran a 56 and a 57 minute half. So. Monster. It's ridiculous. I did that race in Barcelona when he ran 56 and I saw it on the car. the clock time was on the lead car at the end. I was like, is it like four minutes to 11? I didn't know why it said 56. I was so confused. And then it was his race time and it was just disgusting.

21:12Yeah, that's insane. I can't even comprehend those speeds. What they have to run for that far is just, I don't even understand it, to be honest. It's mad. What about the female line-up? Is there anyone? So Tiggis Herceffler is the fastest in the field. She's going for the women's only world record. I mean, she came second at the Olympics in 2024. So, and she used to have the world record as well in the race way. I think she got it in Berlin. Ran 2.12.50 or 2.11. 2.11.50 maybe. Because they start 30 minutes before, don't they? Yeah. Yeah. It's an early start. That's so bleak. But I'm happy I get to wake up after, well, at six rather than like five something.

21:55Though I do think they should move out of London earlier. Because every year now it's just getting hotter. and it's not for you or me like it's fine what would be max 14 degrees when we finish but like last year people were out they started nearly 11 you're running for six seven hours it's ridiculous like in at 27 degree heat like you're baking yourself and you're also not like you're you're doing that because you're not necessarily you can't you're not fit enough necessary to run quicker so like you're already not like in the like best best shape in that heat like never probably going that far before in your life like that is that's no wonder people actually get in some real trouble i mean we've all heat trained it's it's horrible it's horrible it's so bad also like you feel like such do you do it just on a treadmill yeah it's horrible you feel like such a freak i'm in my local gym and just like lared up like at least like if my housemate cabral that actually puts gloves and like a proper beanie on and everything and i'm just i can't i do that do you yeah it holds the sweat a bit yeah but i've been started to split more of the sauna just to have a bit more than i'm hearty and i think the new studies are showing that the sauna post run is just the same as active anyway but i it's also in the building i live in so everyone who sees me in the gym lives in my building so it almost makes it worse yeah that also when you get in the sauna afterwards and then just like sitting on that top step just like baking yourself that you just feel like that is honestly the worst feeling going dizzy yeah have you ever had it where you like you lay in bed at night and i think i overcooked it today and you just i can't call i'm just way too hot i can't cool down well if you think about it like when you do overcook it like the first thing that happens is like brain cells start dying oh brilliant it's good makes a lot of sense back to the podcast yeah yeah like i say gibberish i'm slow at the best of times because we like also in the morning do you ever wake up and it's like i feel terrible this morning because of the heat training because you can't really get all the water in yeah you do i disagree so yeah i i neck two liters of water no i do but it still doesn't do enough for me then i just wake up all the night needing to piss yeah well you do it in your kitchen at the minute don't you cycle like you heat train yeah i don't piss in my kitchen

24:12i don't piss in my kitchen uh i heat train in my kitchen yes so i do it on a bike okay nice just because I do high rock so I don't need to run all the time like you guys and then I'll go in my sauna so I'll do 45 minutes heat and then go in the sauna floor the guy's got a sauna in his backyard yeah living the dream I mean have you not got a sauna in your place yet? I need to invest in one of those oh it's terrible just get on the call like phone to knock at something like that yeah I need to start putting some DMs out I don't know what my agent does it is infrared though so it's not as good yours is not though is it?

24:43no mine's dry and I've been doing my research apparently you're not even meant to splash water on anymore why because apparently our water is so polluted that it then evaporates all the lime scale on the rocks and then you breathe in all the microplastics and everything else from the water you guys are obsessed with microplastics filters everything else do you have the shower filter no i don't have the shower oh come on get onto that yeah maybe yeah yeah well yeah do you have an ice bath as well no i don't do any of that yeah come on don't you can't be doing ice baths No, I don't. No, I don't.

25:20Why would you want to? My local Fitness First doesn't have an ice bath. I'd probably see that. No, but seriously, you guys, you stress your body so much with training. Why would you want to stress it with an ice bath? Or even just your mindset. Do you know what I mean? Why would you want to do? Just carrying logs and boats, innit? Is that what you're thinking? Are you a fan of ice baths? No, no, I don't do them. You don't do them? No. I'd do like... i think it takes away from the willpower i like i like the feeling to be fair after like a really you're like boiling and you jump in something cold it's quite nice yeah a pool on holiday for example but yeah but not like a three degree no it's not enjoyable i've been doing an ice bucket so where i go to the sauna there's a bucket bucket challenge yeah i'm gonna bring it back yeah i'll nominate you first actually um but like putting that over is a nice bit of refreshing but then actually staying in it is is not worth it yeah and the science says that you need to stay it for like 15 20 minutes and it kills that information and it kills the adaptations it's like you you some of the times you sauna like at weird times in the day don't you know where it's like in between or like before swimming or something oh yeah that was just because i hated getting in the pool okay because i just wanted to get warm so yeah i just wanted to get warm so i just like sauna for like 20 minutes and then get in the pool afterwards i'd shower okay not disgusting but I wouldn't yeah people are pissing in the pool anyway aren't they that's true yeah but yeah no I'll just do it whenever I can do it you both like Stairmaster as well big fan of the stairs I only like it because obviously it builds strength but you can also text I do all my editing on it yeah legit like all my videos are done on Stairmaster so you can like reply to Whatsapps and stuff not that I reply to Whatsapps because I don't I'm shitting what's up but yeah you are yeah I agree but yeah you can text yeah but you can't do that on a bike if you do that on a bike then you're not working hard yeah you're not working hard enough whereas like you literally fall off a Stairmaster I've never tried it I don't think I've ever done a step on a Stairmaster before it's actually brutal yeah it's quaddy really quaddy and then like it's kind of like in my eyes as well it's the easiest way to get your heart rate to 120 really it's so true yeah like it doesn't hurt it doesn't like i actually sometimes look at my watch and think i don't know if this is actually right yeah have you tried heat training on the same i see it no i've not this could be good next vlog next vlog heat training on the stairmaster there we go there we go what other methods have you used like little weird training hacks have you used within your marathon prep have you got any off the top of your head because i'm gonna have to think no i'm gonna have to think one thing that you do you uh which obviously probably sounds obvious to a lot of people but other people it won't is whenever you do your intervals you start say if you want to do eight intervals at a certain pace you'll start off slightly slower yeah and then finish slightly faster so it'll be an average of what you set out to do but you have kind of like that that window and i've only just started doing this only just started listening to you and it's so much better because you start off and you're like you don't have that anxiety about the first set being like it needs to be this pace you know it's a little bit easier and then you actually build into it and then the last couple you can push i think it's really good also like if you're jumping straight into it and you're not usually warmed up optimally then your heart rate's already in a battle to try and get up so then you're going into a bit more of an oxygen debt and it's hard to claw that back throughout the whole session so it's just it's just more sensible to set off a bit slower and then build it in obviously also don't build it in too much but you went 3 30 down to 3 10 today didn't you on a woodway yeah that's like 320 down to three minutes really oh those are awful yeah woodways he's the best woodway runner in the world how do you do i love woodways because normal running seems so much easier you hit a pace on there so it's just because it's challenging yeah mate so i uh i remember before uh the houston marathon obviously i didn't hit my time but i did 10k at my marathon pace and then i was able to run a marathon at that pace like on road but i could only do 10k on the woodway so i'm like thinking in my head like if i can get to say if i can do whatever goal i set on the woodway first yeah it's gonna be a piece of piss in real life you need to get a techno gym trying to know so nah i think i used to know because i've i've started like doing more like because i'm not used to running like 255s like 250s how's that feel by the way because that is fucking fast and i've seen that you know i started doing it like my confidence like my coach will set it for me and like i just have no confidence on the road doing that unless i'm in a group and usually like me and week i'm just not i don't know what to run with at 10 o 'clock in the morning so like i've gotten to treadmill a lot more recently and it has built confidence but i'm like wondering like is that it's not the same is it i think the quicker you run the more different it gets to outdoors in a sense of i think cadence is quicker i think you're actually turning over quicker on a treadmill but there's something about the push-off what's a bit different as well so i actually think i think it's actually harder on the legs on the treadmill but actually easier on the breathing i don't know why the exact my heart rate's always way lower inside on the treadmill than when i'm but then on like weekends i'll train in a group and like that's just again that's so much easier yeah so much easier so much easier do you guys do an incline no not anymore not anymore yeah i saw i saw that australian guy yeah seth for donald say yeah yeah and he was like there's no point just from quicker yeah and it also makes you feel so much for me it's a lot of like a confidence player like if i can run it like a i do a couple of k's at like 250 in my head i think oh yeah i can do that and then on race day it doesn't feel so terrifying whereas like if i go out like this week i had like five by k that was like my last session and it was really windy and it was like i just wasn't feeling my best i was like i know if i go outside i'm gonna struggle to get near american pace it's gonna mess with my confidence whereas i know if i go on a treadmill i can bosh those out really quickly and i just like mentally well then it means i won't be like going into the race being like i couldn't even hit american pace on wednesday my longest session of the block was on the treadmill 37k i did on the treadmill Let's talk about it.

31:44So, like, let's go. Longest and, like, final marathon session that you did. Okay. Longest was 13K at 345 or 340. And then 24K at 310. That was on the treadmill. And then did you say hardest as well? Yeah. Question on that before. Why 345? Just, like, a moderate effort to sort of just get. I mean, if you got my coach, I'd probably be able to give you a better answer than I could give you. But also just to make the distance longer. There's adaptations you get, like mitochondria development, capillarization things in longer sessions. So it's also to get the cumulative time up, but also the force.

32:29Then you're also fatigued during the 310 part of it. And practicing running marathon effort that far into a session. That's basically it. And then hardest? hardest was definitely so easily was um i did two by eight k at marathon pace or marathon effort again like a few seconds slower like three or sevens i think i ran um off one k float so that was 16k plus one k float i think yeah i did average like three or seven for both of those and then i did four by 1600 off three three minutes 30 rest and that was uh 432 428 427 421 and that was horrible because i was so low and it's just disgusting like really disgusting probably one of the hardest sessions i've ever done actually because those miles and how much rest between the two by uh after the and then you do the four by so you two by and then four by yeah so yeah so it was 8k 1k flow 8k 1k flow i think like four minutes rest okay and then four by four by 1600 or 330 and you just felt i just felt so flat on those four by six uh 1600 like trying to get the legs moving after doing two by eight k marathon pace just felt horrible maybe you was just having a bad day well it was just a hard session i think as well what about you yeah i've this block's been really different for me my coach has got a very different style to like um i sometimes train with like a group called cottage in batsy park and like they would cottage cottage yeah have you told them to change the thing yeah it's called cottage relocated um yeah i i don't think the connotation is in that way right um i don't actually know why they're called that i should ask it be fulham right craven cottage no it's fantasy park i think it's something because it's close to fulham yeah but i think it's because the there's a a loop that kind of looks like a building a bassy i don't know that's terrible but um they their main session this pop was 35k american pace what like it was wild yeah it was crazy did you do that nah so i did that was that is pretty hardcore i kind of like that that i rate it yeah that day was so that was three weeks out what i did instead was i did 16k with them but before that i did 20 by 400 at 70.

34:48so like not 20 sorry 10 by 400 um off 60 seconds but like jog so i did 10 by at 70 and then went straight into 16k marathon pace whoa but that'll do that after as well it's good both ways that felt unbelievable though the 16k afterwards because like you're going from like 250 to it was 310 we were doing marathon pace at and it just felt like just so much better after you've had that leg turnover but i think my hardest one i did two weeks out was um 10k at marathon pace 10k steady 10k marathon pace and it was just because like it was off like a 100 i'd done that week in total was like 190k it's just like after a couple of 200k weeks it was just dense and like doing the first 10k we did at 305s and then that was way too quick but i was in a group and then this steady was 235 and then the last 10 was a 311 and it's just that by the end i was just kind of cooked to be honest and that took out took so much out of me no wonder you're both a little bit cooked you've been doing fucking 200k weeks for however long i think that's probably the problem like the hardest sessions for me even some some of them weren't actually supposed to be that hard it was just where they were in the block like you again before bath half he asked me to do any session easiest session in the world it's so good and it's just cumulative fatigue from the marathon it's just i didn't i don't think i respected enough that half marathon though either like in terms of how hard of that i just like jumped back straight back in and like just went on and i was like actually oh although it's only a half like i really pushed myself on that day and like it wasn't optimal like the weather was pretty average and like i didn't feel great doing it so then to like just jump straight back in and be like straight on it again i thought that probably was a little mistake just in terms of fatigue yeah i was really lucky because i really struggled with hay fever after that so it forced me to have more time easy yeah because it half you don't even realize even after valencia in in october i was like i'll get back i think so the week following my half in october so not the week after the half but the week after that i did my highest mileage week ever i was like i feel great literally until the end of december from that point i felt terrible all the time because you just go over the edge you don't realize you're going over the edge until it's happened and then it's so hard to claw yourself back it's mostly i think it's cns fatigue actually where it's actually just your nervous system you can't produce any power anymore so everything feels really forced can't get your heart rate up so everything just feels really hard and just you're just fatigued all the time so if you're like seeing people who are like real like not boasting but saying like oh my heart rate's really low at the moment like i'm doing it's actually maybe because you literally can't you're just that fucked like you're just your body's completely dead this is where i think a lot of high rocks is sit with how they train and how they race when it's like doubles and singles on the same weekend and they go straight back into training like i'm not going to name names but like there's definitely definite high rocks is i'm like you're over training so much and it's even if you got you're still good and fit it's so far from optimal it's like kind of like i remember when i was talking to you at the soccer 10k yeah i was like hugo you do know if you'd actually train properly yeah i remember the first time i met he was like man what are you doing i was like okay thanks nice to meet you but the time you were like i don't care yeah yeah yeah and now look at you so but under under everything he was training properly he's just putting out a different perception online that's what he was at the time he was because he was like you're you you spoke about it anyway yeah he was like you you're so relatable online it comes across if you don't know you how precise you are like you are locked in you're still trying to like an idiot yeah yeah i think like um it when i was doing especially the first part of like social media and even before that like i just did things because i wanted to because there was no money involved like i never thought i'd be in this position right so like if someone said to me i'll go and do an ultra or something i would have done it because it was fun and like i there was nothing riding on it and like when i quit my job in september i had a couple of months of doing stuff because i was like oh i'm free i can go and do it and then now especially after barter half when i did like and actually you know after valencia 10k i realized like actually if i really take it seriously in terms of like proper coaching i can do some really good like get a lot quicker um and like focus on the road and so i definitely did like pre a couple of months ago like was i obviously wasn't training optimally there was no way i was doing anything like properly like sensibly just because i didn't have anything to lose in in that sense like i just did what i enjoyed because that's there was nothing i was just having a normal job whereas now i think i need to take it more seriously because at the end of the day it's my money how would you find that transition and potentially like more pressure on races yeah i think i i don't know if there is that yeah um like you say once you take it more serious like inevitably you build up more pressure in your head yeah it's i don't think it's it's just more prioritizing different things you know um and like for example i turned down loads i was meant to do the speed project this year in when was that march yeah march but i was like if i do the speed project that would just complete i wouldn't be able to do a good marathon then i was meant to do the last man standing for bpn again like doing something like that like you can't recover no that's for six months yeah exactly so like i just now have to be more selective about what i do does that make you happy doesn't make me happy yeah i'm more i because i the thing is now i'm very much like i'd love to smash a 215 marathon focus on what's that i'd love to get like a 5k that's like proper in the summer that's like what what is the ultimate goal then i don't know there is one right just gonna get more and more serious until i'm not serious just like you know like him yeah chip away but like when you ask like okay fine like the olympics is the goal for 2028 or whatever but at the end of the day like it's all kind of the same thing we're all just trying to get a bit quicker but there's no like there's the part there isn't really a part is there a purpose to anything like what's your purpose no no exactly the same like like you say like i think you've raised a great point that we're all just trying to be a but like we're all trying to get to our limits and become the best athletes we can be.

41:30I think that's the thing that we all have in common. I think it's an improvement thing rather than a time thing. With the Olympics, the only reason the Olympics is my goal is because it's there. It's still the process of me getting better at running, which is my main focus. And it's kind of going back on to, well, not going back on to because we've not spoken about it on the podcast, but with the doping stuff, it's like I understand if someone wants a financial gain out of running well I don't understand it but I it's like they dope so they can earn prize money and have a better life part of the reason I run is to to see how much I can improve it's like doing that stuff is almost the wrong thing to do because it's not how much I can improve anymore if that makes sense so it's like always just like the process of trying to better myself and improve that's like the goal because we're in the wrong sport for money really we're in the wrong sport for like it looking cool like we can't put a muscle so it's like so slim shady over yeah but so it's like it's just to see growth thank you no but running running became cool and all the people who were actually good at running were never cool so they're not they're still not cool that's the funny thing it's like like the whole brand stuff is all cool but the people who are cool in running like i don't look at many elites and think you're cool cool guy yeah a cool guy i literally can't think of a single one of something like that but i don't think you can be because if you're that good i think people miss the point of like to be as good as someone like alphie like you can there's no you can get to my level being like not messing around but like you can you can be a good runner and still have like not be completely dialed in but like when you're getting to a certain level like i don't think people appreciate how hard it is and i think because you put it on social media you're not normalizing it but like your life online doesn't seem like you look at it and it's at this aspirational sort of thing but i don't think people appreciate like and the same with you it's like no one appreciates how hard it actually is to be that good and then to have to mix in like doing social media doing like i don't trying to get like fashionable trying to like go to these events it's you can't manage all that so you're gonna have to sacrifice something and what would you sacrifice like your performance or going to like events and you know putting loads of social media stuff out and like you say normally it's like your performance or money yeah because the events and stuff or the the brand activations creating content is a distraction from you performing yeah but that's what makes you a living because you can't make a living just from sports yeah in what we're in anyway really this is why i don't i do understand it again but like some people like leave a really credible shoe brand to like then sign for one what just offers to pay them a lot more money it's like you've just chosen to race him we're talking about uh jimmy gracia well jimmy gracia well i mean he's got lucky nike and kipron you just can wear whichever spikes he wants still so that's a bit different really but yeah he won the world championships and adidas spikes and he wore an adidas kick because it's french so kipron had no value out of him winning the world championships on that day because he is an adidas spikes and an adidas kit um so but that's a different story but like it's it's almost why would you again going back to the running isn't exactly the most lucrative thing so if you're if you're picking money as your main driver then it can't be performance because they don't go hand in hand in this sport if it was a difference like you know football american football basketball the better you get the more you get paid whereas in this sport it's not really like that it's more i think people struggle to see someone like me not actually i may have a bit of a gray area but like a lot of people who are like the traditional like run fluencing people making loads of money is they don't they don't understand why the pros don't get that money but it's almost like a different it's completely different not sport but like it's a different world and like they're not actually competing for the same thing oh at the end of the day a brand takes you on because you are sellable and you're going to sell as many pairs of shoes or pieces of clothing or supplements as possible and i do think there is now a definite shift in terms of the like more old school traditional running shifting towards putting more online because they know that is where the funding comes from now and i think that is just it might not be the best solution or the most optimal but it's sort of the world we're in at the moment um but it's good to see more people open up about training being online showing person like personality because i do think there was kind of a barrier before to kind of kind of these mythical i think that's what that's the key why all of these people that were like subly are getting so close to the elites now because the elites are now showing their training online and they're showing exactly what they do you have strava you have this you have that and you can see exactly what everyone's doing so you have now have the knowledge of everyone if you're pretty smart you can literally get the best training program in the world it's not gatekeeps anymore i don't think it was ever gatekeeps like it's not i never look at anyone's training and go like oh they're doing something different everyone's doing the same thing sort of just cut in a different way i think it's just people can't accept that maybe they just don't like they can't put enough they just are good enough like not good enough they just don't put enough work in whereas like you see like you guys how many hours you put in most people can see that now and just have to look at themselves and go i can't put that in it's the months and months of doing without any reward as well which i think there's the biggest barrier like you like i knew the ingebritsons are the best example i knew their training seven eight years ago right i only started doing it like three years ago because of how insane it was like you still like it's it's more accessible now because you can see it everywhere but then then it's like to actually commit yourself to doing all that is it's a massive ask and i think also people maybe trip up now when they look at i think especially you actually because you're in both worlds so well like you're running 63 minute halves and you're also doing a lot of social media stuff you see that and go well i can give that a go and that's where we've seen a lot of injuries as well at the minute um and what they don't see is like for me for example yeah i only started running in 2020 but i spent then like three years building up volume whereas most people now go oh i'm gonna start running i'm gonna sign up to a marathon oh this person's doing 100k a week why not i just do it and then obviously you're gonna get injured because you're jumping so quickly whereas like i think it's it's normalized isn't it yeah a marathon like is so abnormal but it's been so normalized let's say how many people like apply for london marathon every year there's 1.1 million this year oh like there's it's not a normal thing to do to do a marathon like we could all sit here now and probably say like running a marathon isn't the healthiest thing you can do like it's it's ruining your body it's not it's not actually like making you yes the training will make you fitter but actually doing the marathon and going the marathon distance is more costly to your body than it is like it outweighs the health benefits that you're going to get from running a marathon all out like that's why you need three to four weeks rest and then you get easily get back into training after that and you can only run one or two a year maybe three at a push where like you're going all out how many would you say per year marathons like all out three or four the top four is definitely probably the max three is probably appropriate i know like cj albertson does like six or seven a year i talked to him about it like he just pumps them out but like he's just crazy yeah i mean if you really want to max it out i think also like i've i do about through i do three or four a year but like one of them is at least taking the piss like i'm like anyone you guys could both run a 230 235 marathon pretty comfortably and wake up the next day i think it's also the way how hard you push them as well like if you're if we're on sunday fully maxing out yeah you're gonna be cooked yeah hopefully like you want to be as well that's what you want to get if you can run the next day i'm like have you yeah have you really been pushing it like what yeah yeah i can't wait for you to achieve your goal and then i also can't wait for you to double threshold tuesday was not in the new no no no just to experience them weeks after because i don't think you've you've really experienced it yeah it's hard though because like what you just said the double effect i do 40k days all the time yeah i've done a 50k day where it was like 36k of it was i i hadn't ran a marathon or who was training for a marathon then but it was marathon pace or quicker like i did i did like 52k in one day so i've done those days just in a normal training block but i think it is the pushing yourself to the wire where you is completely depleted that's where the real damage gets done i think especially if you you're like pushing it and then you're maybe celebrating after you're not refueling properly oh i will be all that kind of stuff well like you know i'm gonna be honest i do not refuel properly yeah i refill them very much right that's what happened a barcelona half will you be drinking after yeah yeah after barcelona half i really this i read i went way too hard like it was actually the next day was one of the worst situations i've ever been in because i've never pushed myself that hard either like me doing that like i never thought i didn't think that was impossible to be honest on the day and then i think that's where you're saying like you're in the red you're kind of redlining it and then it's the damage after you've kind of gone over that line and i think for barca for example i think i was probably doing three or four k of that run where i had like nothing left and then that's just breaking your muscles up and then on top having like alcohol you just wake up the next day and i was like i can't i can't i can't even walk properly and that's where i think the damage happens whereas as you're saying you you've done yeah we've all i think in this block i've done a couple of 38 40k runs yeah i'm you'll find the next day because the only x amount is when you're actually pushing it yeah like doing a double threshold two days after a 38k long run that's 37k but like because you're controlled and that's i think goes back to training i'm racing it's a perfect sign probably for everyone to who's listening to understand is like training is about control more than anything else like you could even if you have a like a sucky session for example what's really hard it's still hard by the parameters of training it's a completely different thing to a race a race hard like it's such a different effort and I don't think you can even actually push yourself to that limit in training most of the time because you don't have the adrenaline and things like that.

52:23I've got a quick question. So pacing and running behind a pacer in a marathon, how many seconds per kilometre do you think it is easier by like drafting someone? Drafting, I don't think any. Any? No. I don't think we're going fast enough to draft really. Even in a half or five or ten do you think? Like as a wind block or? Yeah. Yeah, wind block. I think it makes a difference. not not as in drafting as in cycling but as in terms of if there's wind coming towards you and they're blocking the wind i think there's obviously a benefit there but from drafting from like them punching a hole through the air i don't think anything at all so aren't there slight benefits after 20k an hour there might be potentially yeah but so i think probably for you on your 5k i can imagine something but i don't know i think it's more just the fact that you don't have to concentrate on it's the biggest thing yeah you're you're you just know this person in front of you you can kind of trust them um yeah maybe it's just that it's just that and then just relax completely yeah you don't have to think i because i got a my i did 219 in berlin in 2024 i was not in that shape i know for a fact i wasn't that shape i just had this kenyan guy who literally went 38 kilometers with me you know i just sat behind him and i didn't have to think at all i barely even looked at the watch i just trusted this guy and he just like literally led there was a group of like 20 of us and so everyone was in line just kind of one goal and like it was so it was it was the easiest i've ever felt and then was he pacing the can you yeah yeah and the last 4k when he dropped out well it was like just have to push now and was that a woman pace a woman's pacer yeah yeah so um and then i actually found him that literally the next yeah i went to kenya and uh i saw i met him it was so weird yeah yeah he was out there um and we did some sessions ago it was class but like yeah it's just so much easier to i think just switch off i agree they're switching off and not having to think about forcing it so i think that's the same with the treadmill like you don't have to think about forcing the pace you can just relax like when you're just running by yourself you're constantly having to be switched on to run that pace because it's fast it's a hard effort whereas if you have someone in front of you you literally the mind can just turn off especially for the marathon when you're wanting to switch off as long as possible without thinking about how far's left that is such a big a big thing i think that will literally save minutes of your time i think just being able mentally i think yeah and then i wanted to just touch on like if someone was training for a marathon what do you think the perfect structure for a week looks like i sent you something the other day just uh something on instagram and it was just the most simplified training methodology i've ever seen for running it was two interval sessions a week one long run that progressively gets longer and everything else is easy how many times a week you're running though well as much as possible where like but everything else is easy yeah and basically that was it that was the message like that like just made so much sense to me it was like you only go hard two or three times a week literally two interval sessions and then one long run where it's kind of like progressive either in distance or in intensity as well and then everything else is just super easy pace and just fit in what you can would you would you kind of agree with that or would you go about it completely different and we're talking like we're talking like the regular person we're not talking about you who like for example your shakeout i can't even remember your shakeout but it's so like yep full on like if we just did like a dumbed down version what would we be saying as a week of training i think we'd probably give the same answer here where it's like it does depend on how many days a week you run because if you're only running five days a week or four not two intervals in a long run i'd do one interval session in a long run for example um especially for the marathon and that long run is the staple.

56:23And then after that, everything has to be easy. And then if you go into six or seven times a week, then you can have a look at that extra session, but I would still maybe look at trying to add in like a medium long run as well before you add in another interval session, for example. So would you say it's more key really to get one interval session in and one long run and then everything else be easy? Do you think you could get by on that? Oh, 100%. I mean, that's pretty much what I do. i do wednesdays yep and then a saturday session and that will that will switch between doing like marathon pace intervals like five by five and then one week will be long progressive and then i do like as you said like easy to moderate sessions like where you go 28k quite long but like they don't take anything it's just building volume and then on some weeks yeah maybe two intervals and a long run but one and one like one interval and one long for me has always been the structure just because it means then the other you don't if you're running three or four times a week that seems so much more doable yeah so instead of going hard three times you've got hard twice and then what are the intervals looking like are they kind of like super long i'd talk to him about that i'd say you want to figure out where you are in training again depends like if you're new to like relatively new to the sport i think these intervals should actually be a bit more mechanically focused um so more like hill based i would do quite a lot of the time um but if we're just talking generic like normal marathon training plan i think like you can't go wrong with threshold sessions as those intervals so could be some longer reps like you did well not like you did four minute reps say didn't you but like 2k reps for example on that interval session cut down into 1k reps and 400s keep it really simple especially in a marathon block i don't really see the point in touching vo2 stuff really that often unless you're starting to wanting to run really fast times um i think it's just better to focus purely on almost everything on the aerobic side of it it's really interesting because i yeah i spent years just doing i never really went into proper 5 or 10k rep paces i do loads in like lt1 range like doing five by ten minutes I mean which is actually quite a meaty session to be honest because you I was going at like 330 but yeah heart rate being like 150 160 nothing crazy and then this block because my coach wanted me to focus on leg turnover getting more comfortable at doing you know the 250 paces then I was doing the 400 meter reps and I was still doing eight to 10k and then by the end I was doing 15k volume in an interval session midweek but even And then it would be like my actually one of my favorite sessions I did was 5k at like 10k pace.

59:12Then I think it was 8 by 400 meters and then another 5k afterwards. At 10k pace again. Yeah, it was it was heavy. And like maybe it was a bit slower. I think I did them in 1510. 10k effort. Yeah, it was effort. And then but it was interesting. Like again, those kind of sessions I've never done before. And like mixing. I think it's interesting to mix up the paces. I don't know what your thoughts about that are but no I agree and I think all of us sat here those sessions definitely need to be part of the plan because it's it's hard to run as fast as we need to run mechanically like the mechanical focus or the mechanical efficiency needed is just high and if you're not used to that then either it'll psychologically feel way too quick and it'll just wear you down mentally or it will just be too quick because you're not efficient enough to handle that pace you'll be wasting more energy and even if you're the most aerobically fit person in the world because you're more inefficient then on paper they're really just less fit basically like because it's there's different types of fitness and one of them is running economy like you've got to be able to be handle the paces well enough so if you'd gone into lensey 10k and not being able to run those like 400 reps quicker or like quicker stuff then you're not going to be able to do 10k at sub 3 per k base like it's just impossible so you've got to be able to handle that and i think for the average person getting into it i'd probably start with just strides and building building that's been a game changer for me like just after a long run after a long run i say long run after any easy run like doing strides and it doesn't have to be like any certain days but you did mention like the days like the day before your harder sessions yep it kind of helps because it like opens up your legs and it's primes but like if i go out for a 10k run and then i'll just finish and i'll just do 1k worth of strides which it'll literally just be sprinting a couple of lampposts, jogging a couple of lampposts, sprinting a couple of lampposts, and I'll do four to six efforts, depending on how I'm feeling.

1:01:14But the aim is just to get progressively faster and just to open up the stride and feel comfortable when running. Because I don't know if you guys have felt it, but even after going for a 10K run, like super easy, that first stride, you're so tight and you just loosen up over the four reps and you get faster and faster. and that's helped me more than anything that's helped me more than like stretching as well with like mobility for some reason like strides have just like properly sorted out like any kind of niggles i've had due to running it's treat training to run more efficiently yeah it's recruiting more muscle fibers it's also you know you put a bit more impact into the ground so you're kind of developing a bit more leg tension and things like that so as long as you don't overdo it it should in theory improve speed improve efficiency and improve your running overall really but then the key is not overdoing it because it's also higher impact so that's just what something we've got to manage like don't do it every day obviously and if you're just doing sessions i think the main goal for a session like you could you could write infinite amounts of different session variations but really if you're looking at a session it's what is the adaptation and that is normally either mechanical or let's just say aerobic really unless we're talking middle distance for you having to do some more lactic stuff but that is it is it improving my running mechanics or is it improving my aerobic system stuff in the middle where it's kind of like fast and long that should be used sparingly as well but they still have some use but that's it like every session just be seen as aerobic benefit mechanical benefit and that's that that's it really yeah Maybe I waffled a bit there.

1:02:55No, I learned loads there. I'm not going to lie. I think that just went on me. I was just like, you know, like monkeys, just bashing some tambourines. Is that me or is that you? I don't know. In my head. Yeah. Listen to another language. Yeah, it was. I wanted to ask you a question. Now, I want you to answer for each other for this, right? Rice. Well, it is. It could be potentially. Right. what do you think Alfie what do you think Hugo's secret is to Hugo being an incredible runner and Hugo what do you think Alfie's secret is to being an incredible runner like what makes the other person different in the way they do things and how have they become successful in their running career I think he's a really good combination of like laid it back and also knows where to switch it on in the right places so like you get really nervous a lot of time don't you for races sometimes whereas i think hugo's probably like the perfect balance of being chill about it which is really helpful in a training block as well like going with the flow of the training block especially on bad days and then also being able to dial in like he's still doing beat it no me oh all that stuff as well so he can dial it in when he needs to as well he's probably said he's got long legs as well that that helps that helps now also i think the difference is like how long have how long have you been running what since like 20 years yeah you've done 20 years of like consistently showing up i don't think people appreciate how much it's not like you can't be like overnight success like when you drop like a 27 minute 10k people like oh like that's amazing you get your flowers then but like you've got 20 years of putting in like mad effort and also like you also don't see like your your uni experience doing that as well and your school days doing that and like what you had to give up and like you i guarantee you ask everyone oh do you want to do that anyone who likes running oh do you want to run that time everyone's like yeah 100 but then you go oh but okay here's the list of things you actually had to give up and like not do and then everyone looks and goes ah yeah i don't know i had like but then they'll they'll completely rethink i think that's the thing that's like really lost on like people like afi who have done like crazy times it's like you don't you don't you just can't there's no way even if you were putting your every single day online like you just can't comprehend the how much that's stacked over 20 years and also like i don't think i've seen anyone online be so like not meticulous but like you are one of the more like he's like an alien bro i wouldn't call him an alien but yeah like very much like switched on this is only inspired from other people like as in my coach you are a great researcher i think that is what yeah it's like it's almost like there's no one like it's funny i was talking to gabriel about your pod with a cow it's like there's no one like when we live we're like oh actually i'd listen to him like i personally if i was listening to me like i'd never look at my social media for information it's more light entertainment at the end of the day it's a different level of education yeah it's different it's a different whereas like you go to alfie and go oh he actually like he really knows what he's talking about and like then you get training tips if you you're getting training tips from me you're doing it wrong but like well not doing it wrong but like you know you can definitely take inspiration sure but and like appreciate someone who works hard because i definitely put in the hours but it's a different type of like i'm fully confident when Alfie says something that he's at like he's really done the research which also is like a massive benefit and especially the shoe stuff like now I'm in my head you know what I'm wearing on the weekend there's only one reason I'm doing that well have you been chatting about shoes oh yeah you know he tries to he tries to go around saying the New Balance SC Elite V5 is competitive with the other top shoes and I just don't understand it so I gave him like three options and it's it's one of those which is good in the uh at Bath Half I just opened the box and he's just I have that.

1:07:01And why are you wearing those? They're a bad shoe. They are a bad shoe. I don't mind them. I mean, after Bath, I was a bit like, oh. You ran your half marathon PB in Brooks. They're terrible as well. I'm not commenting. I ain't saying anything. But honestly, he's sandbagging more. What did you run the 10K in in Valencia? Mizuno's. Mizuno's, yeah. They're a good shoe. You know what? I put them on for a 5K and I got my PB in them. And I was like... Were they the pure? Yeah. and I was expecting them to be terrible because they're just not a brand you'd like historically have been amazing in that space and actually really good for them but I wouldn't wear them for anything yeah that's my concern of the Evo 3 by the way because it's 97 grams I felt them yesterday I put them on and it literally feels like you're putting a top hauling over your foot yeah it literally just feels like they're going to rip yeah I don't know how you I wouldn't wear a marathon but I'm not also like what's our way like 50 kilograms yeah yeah it's a bit different gravy yeah and he'll take half as many steps as we do because his legs will just be insanely long yeah i did have an answer for that question for yourself i think the thing that makes you better than anyone else that i know because genuinely you are the best one that i know is just the way and the dedication that you have and like you're you you do all the research but then you go and apply it yeah and i think that's what makes you different like you'll go and try everything you're not like stuck in your ways like there's been conversations that even like we've had um and you won't be like no i'm not doing that you you'll be open to it and then you'll go try it and if it works for you it works for you add it in and if it doesn't then you've tried every method of training and i think that's what makes you a great runner yeah and you're a bit of a psychopath and being inquisitive as well it's such a good superpower people so many people just stuck in their ways and like don't want to admit they're wrong either and i actually like there's so many times if you don't like look at what you've done gone oh actually that didn't really work for me or that's not optimal or you know it's good to just be able to be willing to even try something new well very on theme of that actually this week and on theme for this where we're at currently in marathon season my nan actually once was like around my around my house and my hip was a bit sore well not like tight and she's like oh do this stretch I learned it from Joe Wicks I was like here we go I'm not like come on she used to do every day in lockdown she's doing like the same and I've got my own opinions he used to be on TV right yeah it's great getting people do it but in terms of quality advice I'm not sure he's the best person to listen to what did he say about the marathon recently just have a banana didn't he basically banana and porridge and nothing you know your feel and then the running channel tried to act like he didn't say it that way and it was out of context so and he was like no that's exactly the context he was in there was no other context needed he just said it as it was and then they just deleted it edited it out so that they can't really but anyway my nan was like yeah joe wicks i think it was joe wicks does this exercise i was like oh okay i'll give it a go and honestly it's my like number one go-to stretch it's because my nan told me to do come on it's all let's pick up let's get joe wicks back come on he's just been cancelled you're going to bring it back basically like i think i've just knocked a wire out uh you kind of like that but it's a bit higher than you like do this and then put your head down and it's so good at getting your back but also the hip here it's unbelievable especially when you're stiff and it's a bit you know a bit more of a structural chair yeah like you can get like a really good back stretch and a good really good hip stretch as well i really rate how you like spent like eight hours stretching the day before to be like oh this might help i'm like that's fair it's always it's like it's it's not because it's not the mechanism but it's like only doing tell you what it's like running with a backpack on and then taking it off and it feels so airy i feel so good on race day yeah and it's just a nice psychological i'll stretch tonight though as well so half the time maybe maybe four hours tonight and then my answer to you i think you're different because you're just a dog you have that fucking dog in you like yeah and you know when i realized that when you did the overnight ultra the bpn ultra and you won it because you explained to me that it was definitely not your day and you still fucking won yeah that is just like you wasn't feeling that race at all yeah and to go out and win it like let alone just finish it like a 50 miler is it's some going like i say it's a double marathon and the fact that you wasn't feeling it on the day he was having stomach issues you know you couldn't keep anything down and then you continue through the night and go and win it as well like that's just insane I think you can just pull this extra gear, you just have this extra gear above everyone else.

1:11:42And that's what I'm really relying on this weekend. And also sorry to the BPN athlete but what you wore that day was class as well just to go there and just wear that and then win it last thing that I just wanted to touch on for anyone that is training for a marathon, running a marathon obviously you go through tough times where does your mind go when times get tough like do you have a certain song that you listen to is there something that you think about obviously this is kind of like the question that you get asked probably the most but are we talking about in race in race like when when you're almost hitting that wall maybe 32k it's not your day like how do you get the motivation to pick yourself up and push through to the end of a marathon for me i've always just like like reiterated in my mind i only need one good day i said this last time it's like you just need one good one good day and so like if you're not feeling it but you're still on pace just try to suck up and like because you never know when you're going to be in that position again where you've had a good block you're really fit you're feeling good or even if you're not feeling good but you've got to that spot already you don't know when the next time it's going to be these conditions so kind of just like focus on the next k suck it up basically just suck it up and also i'm so bad at like not thinking of external pressure but i'll be like oh my sister's come out my mom's come out to watch me i can't just crumble now i lean into that all the time yeah that's the i think that's the best thing like taking it away from yourself and just thinking like if i don't finish this i'm going to embarrass everyone that's come to watch like they've come to watch for no reason and i've i've been a shit the last week because i've been on my carb load like i need everything precise like i've not been nice you've been a princess you've been a princess i can't then come back when my tail was my legs being like oh i kind of gave off in the last 10k that's that's what helps me who's gonna carry the bolts yeah exactly you got anything um i think one of the things for me is no matter how bad you're feeling you can't be like oh I've got 5k left I've got to hit this effort like you can't dread it in your head if that makes sense like you can't have negative thoughts because it just instantly makes you feel worse like I think it's Kipchoge who said this um well probably wasn't the first person to say but like see how he smiles when he's in pain sometimes like I am a big believer in like being overly confident like kid almost kidding yourself that you're feeling good even if you're feeling terrible because there's no use on feeling like having negative thoughts it just makes you feel worse so if you can even if you're having to fake it i would try to find positives if you're really struggling to do that i also think it's important to like have a race within a race so let's say you're already getting dropped by the group or the goal you wanted to be all the time and you can see someone next to you or someone comes past you or someone down the road is like let's just race that person i honestly the the adrenaline you get or like the boost you get from having another goal within that race other than just time makes such a big difference like all my fastest races have been when I've not gone in with a time goal.

1:14:50It's been with a let's go racing today. And then it's just because you're not, as soon as it's a time focus, you're either thinking I'm running the time, so it's going to be hard. And then it automatically makes you feel like it's hard. Or you're thinking I'm running too slow. So it's, I'm doing terrible, which makes it feel worse as well. So I think sometimes just take away that and just focus on racing and, and doing well. If that makes sense. Well, that does make sense. And if we don't see you smiling this weekend, something's up oh i'm just feeling great so i don't need to smile maybe that's the i'll only be smiling if i feel terrible no but also there's something about like if you're in a group and you're suffering and then you turn to someone and they're smiling you're like oh god yeah well just playing man games yeah it's my games yeah beth half i had jake smith going like this to the camera like halfway and i'm like i hope he's not feeling that fresh but i beat him so he dropped didn't you but um like people do that and i'm just like really i really hope you're not um as fresh as you seem yeah jay was the one that did all the pacing for you right yeah then you just did him dirty at the end well i mean you could call it dirty i think it's just bad race tactics yeah bad race tactics from him i mean i had a bad race tactics as well to be fair i should have gone before i'm not gonna lie out of all these professional races that you've done like when it's like been videoed i've never seen you at the front of a pack that's called being intelligent that is just clever yeah i won't you won't i i i famously not famously because no one cares but like i can never find you're known for just sitting on someone's ass i can never find the snake i can never find race photos of myself because i'm always behind someone yeah that's why i asked about the drafting i think it's a superpower no because if it's windy or like just making them do the work so that's all it is but it's hard when i'm 16 you know and a bit bigger i mean i'm yeah i'm still a bit taller than most especially when you have to like you'll get this the quicker you get the smaller people get oh so it's harder to to draft behind people yeah there's a guy called andy five who i run with and he's literally like five five max and like tiny small and like he's he's a 2 12 guy um he just sits he always just like whenever a trainer he just sits behind me i'm like you're way quicker than me get out in front of me come on mate but he wouldn't be doing you've got to be in front of you anyway so at least no yeah exactly he wouldn't be able to block anything for me.

1:17:04If you see the video of Jacob in the cross country when he's like, there's an Italian guy leading so he like crouches really low just to take the mix because he's so much better but it's like, I'm going to draft behind him so he has to like crouch like half his height. Yeah. I might do that. He is funny, that guy. Yeah. Get him on the pod. Oh yeah, just... He was in London last week. Benny's running into him. Well, if you want to put in a good word, I think a lot of people did ask for Ingebrigtsen. I can try. He had snacking carrots. I kind of respected that. Yeah, honestly, that got in my head and I wanted to buy some.

1:17:38I actually might buy some today. He had some what? Snacking carrots. He had little baby carrots. Yeah, I was like, that's a niche snack. He's obviously got something about him. This guy got me back into rice as well, by the way. Just put that out. Well, obviously, he's Mr. Rice. I think he's going to change his last name to rice. My girlfriend's name's not Matilda. Just call your child Matilda. Yeah, perfect. Even if it's a guy. Yeah. I'm trying to think I've got to say anything the same as rice mine's probably porridge but I don't put it out there on social media do I really what's yours Cocoa Pops I've just gone to ice cream as well though I'm a big ice cream fan smash that online you get the brand deals in come on what Cocoa Pops or ice cream both both yeah but this is what I think about Ben and Jerry's that'd be class yeah this is what I think about though like what are they going to do send me some free Cocoa Pops get a retainer with them they're not going to pay me to eat i didn't think tilda were look at me now you're getting paid by tilda yeah i got a year retainer come on what yeah that's me in my day that do you get do you get commission no no i don't have a discount code wish i did yeah i don't think you can though really no just supermarket yeah imagine going on actual like a tilda website being like i'm gonna buy like 100 packs of rice so do you get sent tilda you just have to go to the shops and get it no i said to go to the shops okay it's a bit unfortunate is um but they pay me so okay so sell me this then why is tilda better than vt because i like the sticky rice i'm not gonna lie yeah it's told to do some sticky yeah they do yeah yeah i mean to be fair i did actually do a factory tour and it was quite cool um but they basically one of the reasons they're actually really good and this is not even a sales pitch is they own um and they have like a distribution network where no other brand can use the fields they use for rice oh yeah so they have their own whereas a lot of bigger other brands have um like own brand labels so they do more than one distribution yeah so it's just that white company and then yeah yeah also like it's mad but we're going on too much about rice but like you can they actually measure the whiteness of like basmati grains and stuff so they make it perfect like it's actually so you know how white a grain of rice is that's actually on purpose because it's actually how much the starch content okay so if it's not right your rice can actually just be really grim okay so what color do you want your rice no it's like a percentage like it's like theirs is like by like like it's it's actually mad and they they measure like every it's going there i didn't realize how complicated rice was yeah also did you know like you know when it says easy cook like quick cook rice the pat on the pack that's actually been part boiled part steamed in the rice husk right or pre so it's actually so you know when you get in the supermarket you get easy cook stuff where it's like super rapid to cook but how long we're talking to you two minute the two minute no no no no like actual packs of rice it's like normal dry grain rice there's easy cook and then just standard rice the easy cook stuff's already been already been cooked straight off the mountain we were there in the factory for like 10 hours just walking around and they were just telling us everything about rice and I was like this is too much information who knew it was so complicated it's a great tangent back into running running is very simple but also behind it very complicated well this podcast has sent me under guys thank you for that is the random said to a podcast It is random, but we're going to end there.

1:21:19Thank you, guys. Thank you for having us.