Mary McCarthy - #23

0:00Mary McCarthy, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me. People know you, well I know you, for being an incredible runner and documenting your journey online. I think the first time I actually came across you and heard about you was when you first did the speed project. Oh yeah. And I thought it was incredible the way that you could do something like the speed project, but then also go and run insane like 5k times and stuff like that. Yeah. how would you kind of like sum up yourself oh I know that's a tough question that is a tough question how would I sum up myself um determined I also think I have gone through life with this mindset of like anything's possible and I said this to a couple people recently and my parents also say it to me like I have like goals and dreams and like I never think about it not happening like I'll be like I want to do that and there's no like in my head I'm like that's doable that's possible so I guess like some yeah that's not really sum myself up so myself up determined and I like that no I like that yeah where did it all start where did kind of like the the fitness running because I know you you've done the majority of the stuff that you've done is in the running space yeah and people will probably know you for being an incredible runner but you've also dabbled in other things yeah whether it's triathlon whether it's um other things like high rocks and stuff like that yeah yeah yeah um yeah where did it all start uh it started genuinely how old am i now we're like 19 years of running so 19 years of running yeah and has that been continuous pretty much so like my dad's a runner so that's where it started i did a he was doing the Sheffield half and I did like the kids fun run and he was like let's do it I don't I don't remember really at all but I remember I came second and I met Jessica Ennis that day and I got this massive trophy and he was like can I swear he was like he was like the fuck and I was like obviously I didn't know and then he was like oh let's do a primary school cross-country the next weekend and won it by like 400 meters and he was like oh but at the time I was like competitively swimming so my like aerobic base for like an eight-year-old was like crazy so you started off swimming before before any of this before any anything swam so I used to swim all week and then I used to race cross country at the weekend and I do like no running training and I just race cross country at the weekend what was the swimming like was it before school was it a couple of hours a day was it yeah at that age when I was super young it wasn't before school it was all after school but it got to the point where it's like double sessions before and after school and we used to do something called land training which is so funny because obviously swimming you're in the water so they call it land training and we used to just do like shuttle runs and then like medicine ball throws so I was like this like like I used to sometimes I think about the training I did when I was like eight to ten years old and you're like that's crazy that you're like I do like an hour and 45 minutes of land training of like probably running like 5k medicine ball throws wall sits and then I go and get in the pool for two hours and then I just just race cross country at the weekend and casually win and casually well I'm not surprised to be fair like you say that kind of like general preparedness that you get from swimming the aerobic base the learning how to breathe properly yeah yeah yeah I feel like it carries over so well to running yeah I do like some of the best runners have come from like a swimming background early on yeah I think swimming is just like such an amazing sport to do as a kid because it sets you up so well for like any aerobic base i know lucy davis also grew up swimming as well and we've spoken about that and it's like it just gives you that like it's also brutal the training you do when you're like like 12 years old i remember like crying into my goggles because i was just being like forced to do like these crazy sessions and then going into running i was like fine so when did that that change occur or did it was a time period where you like you say you swam a lot and you ran a lot there was but I think I stopped swimming quite young I think I was like year eight so you're like what 13 14 I might I remember my dad sitting me down and being like you need to choose one because at this point I was like county level running and also swimming and it was like you can't do both these well so I chose running then and then it was kind of from then onwards I like ran all the way through school ran through sixth form ran through uni went to Birmingham uni and like my whole life at Birmingham was just like the athletics team.

4:36Was you part of an athletics team back in Sheffield? Yeah it was Hallamshire Harriers for like 10 years. Wow and what distance did you kind of do? When we were at school it was like kind of just like the season so you do like you'd have like track well you'd start off like road relays which were like really fun because we never really got to race on the road that much as a kid and then you'd go into cross season and then at the end of cross season you do the mini if you got into the London mini marathon that was always really fun you go down to London do that and then it goes to track but track I was always like middle distance so like 8 15 8 15 and then I got a bit older I'd like more 3k nice yeah nice and so you did that went to Birmingham uni yeah which is kind of known in the running world I feel like yeah it's one of the best unis you can go to for the athletics yeah my opinion i yeah i chose it because of the athletics team and how did you find that was it good did you fit right in yeah it was it was perfect i made all my best friends through the athletics team i trained under luke gunn for like three years and he was great and his wife hannah england is like ex-olympian it was just like a really cool group of people and like being in a space at uni where you're surrounded by like there's like 50 of us that would like regularly see each other and just like train and run and also obviously we had a lot of fun at uni so it's like the perfect for me it was the perfect uni experience we'd like go sports night and get absolutely hammered but then we'd all be at training on thursday that's interesting because a lot of people who have been in the running space especially young they always fall off around that university period yeah whether they go to work get a job they have less time or like you say they go out yeah get drunk and then they don't turn into practice yeah I do think if I'd end up at like Leeds or Bristol or like all these are the like cool unis that I looked at I don't think I would potentially you never know but I feel like I would have easily dropped off because you do just kind of go to uni you're like what am I training for what am I doing and I did have that a bit when I first moved to London because I think I first moved to London I'd been training for like 15 years and I was like now I don't have a team I don't have a club I didn't have like I didn't really understand road racing because I'd come from such like a structure of like cross-country track and I was like how does an adult what does it how does this fit into like an adult's life who's working and I remember just like I'd run because it was the only fitness I knew so I just like run before work and then I remember then going to pure sport and like meeting all these people they were doing Valencia marathon and I was like wait should I do a marathon and they were like yeah why not and then that was kind of when it all like kick-started again what time period was that so how many years ago was so I did Valencia marathon 2023 and what was the training like before that so did you sign up for it like six months prior or was it kind of like just I'm gonna go do this and it's next week no it was I'd we did have a training block but like I'd never ran a marathon I never ran far I hadn't even really raced a half marathon even though I'd come from this like massive background of running we were it's not kind of like common is it no you kind of run like probably 10k cross-country when you're an adult if 10k is long for cross-country yeah even that okay i remember it was like yeah it used to be five like yeah the juniors period it was like five and yeah yeah like say you don't really run people used to get like when you tell people you're a runner they'd be like so what's the longest you ever run i'd be like 15k like but and then i came to london and like everyone was like road running and i was like oh i don't have like didn't really have the only 10k i ever ran was when i was like 16 and i did it i begged my coach to let me do it because it was my dad was doing and i was like might be the last one i get to do with him and he was like fine and i remember i'd run i think i ran like 39 39 wow in my first 10k that's crazy when i was 16 and i was like that's pretty good so that's like but that was like my only base like road time i had coming into london and then all my french group at the time we're training for lency and i was like oh i'll just do it and we just like all our long runs we just meet up on a saturday morning at like a got really early time we'd run to like east london and we just like jog at like 5 30s like i didn't do like any like sessions like long sessions marathon pace or anything for my first marathon so i went into it like completely blind and was like i'll see see how it goes my dad's marathon time is like three i think it's like sub 320 so I was like be kind of cool to beat him in my first marathon and I also had the back of my mind that championship women's time for London back then was 315 so I was like it would be really cool to qualify for women's championship and I just went into Valencia completely blind and then ended up running 303 in my first marathon 303 yeah first marathon yeah oh 30303 actually oh so it was meant to be yeah and i remember the boys that are watching were like oh that is mad that is mad i remember oh my first marathon i think i did 316 317 or something yeah and i thought oh that was pretty sick that was a good time though but i mean it's all it's all relative like i wasn't um i didn't go to birmingham university yeah yeah to run but let you say doing that off no specific like marathon sessions yeah like i say just going out running easy miles and then obviously you add your speed you add your interval work from yeah and years and years and years of that the base i had years of base yeah did you throughout like this time period like obviously a lot of people when they train for the first marathon they potentially struggle like with building up the mileage yeah so you'd not run far before but you was kind of like did you gradually build up the mileage were there any kind of like niggles that you got along the way yeah was you was you fine for that first block that first block I was fine I think because I actually don't really remember what I was doing weekly but I don't think I would have done crazy k's I was probably doing like I can't even remember what I was doing I was probably doing like 60 70k weeks probably like maxing out 70k weeks I think back then it was more normal to do that yeah i think because of the improvement of shoes like people can just run a lot further than them yeah and we always as well with like social media you have access to say for example the people that you follow the people that i follow people that general people follow are probably like the the top 500 people in the world at running yeah so you're looking at their mileage and you're like to power 10 last year and i was like 113th in the marathon or something seriously maybe maybe that's maybe that's too high but i remember looking and being like wait that's because you think like i know that 250 is quick for a girl but like in my head i'm like that's not like so is that is that your pb at the moment yeah 250 let's go over your your numbers so uh for the marathon 250 250 have you got 10k at the moment 10k is uh half marathon half marathon is 120 120 120 oh four which i didn't realize i was so close to chipping that off do you think that's gonna be like a goal yeah well i ran that like in my london marathon block last year right okay so like i wasn't i didn't like really taper for it i just went out to paris and was like i want to do a half in my block and i ran 120 i was like oh that's pretty good but yeah i think i've definitely got shave a couple minutes off that i would have loved to do that this year but i don't know if i'll get around to that yeah but yeah 250 120 10k 36 20 36 20 5k 16 57 rapid yeah there's some good times yeah there's some great time oh um so let's say 303 for your first marathon what were you feeling after that like was did it give you motivation to think right now i need to train for another marathon yeah yeah I literally remember crossing the finish line and being like oh my god and I don't even think like sub three was like the thing it is now like three years ago like obviously there was I had friends that were like going for sub three but like it wasn't like I don't know I just don't think it was like as big of a thing and I remember being like oh my god I was actually like really close I also like negatively split so mentally I was like have I just gone a bit quicker in the first half what was your strategy going into it did you did you expect like you say did you go into it thinking i'm gonna run a 315 and set out at that pace yeah i had the splits on my hand i think for 315 okay or like something around there and i think i'd like kind of put them on my hand of like a bit of a from like this pace to this pace like this pace is like best and this pace is worse i probably had like 310 to 320 or something like that um but I went out and the boy I was seeing at the time we were like kind of in competition of who was gonna beat each other it was like a common knowledge that we were like quite similar pace and he was like I'm gonna go off and I was like I'm not because I was just like petrified of blowing up because I'd never ran a marathon before I was like everyone says there's a wall everyone's like you're gonna hit a wall at 30k and I was like so scared so he went off and I remember my first two k's were like 540s wow okay so because I also just got caught up in the crowd but I was also like it's fine it's fine it's fine just like take it chill and it's like even if I'd just done two 430s in that first k I would have done a sub three so I remember thinking I was like god but I was also like it's good to not do on the first one because then you've got a goal for the next one um but then I just I think I went through half like 135 okay and then I must then what i don't even know what the maths is i want to do not 125 yeah 120 three yeah something like that i remember getting to 30k and being like oh my god i need to sprint because i was like chilling i was like wait i'm completely fine i've only got 10k or 12k but i always gaslight the last 2k i was like i've only got 10k to go and i remember genuinely looking down at my watch and being like if i can run like four minute splits for the next 10k i'll be like really close to three hours and i genuinely i think i ran a 13 slow as like a 38 39 last 10k in valencia right so you you had lots of how so obviously you was going into it expecting that you was going to hit this wall yeah didn't hit this wall yeah what do you think the reason behind that was i think because a lot of people struggle with it like the wall yeah i do kind of think mentally I think the wall is so mental and like if you kind of I don't know kind of I was gonna say if you don't let yourself hit the wall which like some people be like that's not true because I physically hit a wall which I do get but I do think energy like fuel fuel is such a massive thing and I was like really on top of my fuel that whole marathon I remember like even before I kind of knew what I was doing I was like every 6k having a gel like even if I didn't need it I having a gel and I also think I just like was running so slow for me that when I got to 30k I wasn't actually that tired so I could just keep going whereas I've had marathons before when I'm like running at a way more max capacity and you hit 30k and you're like oh my god this is gonna be tough whereas in that one I was just kind of like I can just keep going simple as that yeah just keep going so so after that you uh then decided to do another marathon is that right yeah i got into london championship pen so that was my next one but that's that's the same year i did the speed project before oh okay so you did the speed project beef yeah it would have worked out obviously speed project has just been this year yeah march yeah yeah it's just before london it's like four weeks before london so you did the speed project talk to us about that yeah like how did you even create your team yeah yeah yeah did you get invited did you make the team it was anja's team okay because she's a lululemon ambassador and i remember she'd messaged me we're just friends she'd messaged me she was like i'm thinking about doing this it's a race from la to vegas and i was like what she was like and i would love you to be on my team and i was like sign me up i was actually like whenever it is whatever it is that sounds insane um so she kind of picked the team um and i remember it being like a month before london i was like this probably isn't great who was in your team by the way it wasn't you're gonna test me now it was me anya jvd jess laura was it uh all girls team it was all girls sav savannah amy yeah there was six of us yeah and like it was quite nice because like everyone wasn't even like influencers it was just like cool women that anya was like have that sort of like mindset of like i can do this and like athletes and it was like the I think what was so fun for us about the speed project is it's such like a cool underground grungy vibe and we rocked up as a lululemon team and we were like in pink shorts at like the like meet up before and everyone was like who the fuck are these guys but it was kind of like I feel like it fitted so well that we were like this like all like really good athletes in our own like on our own all like I think what I love so much about my page when I first started was like this like really like feminine girly energy but also doing like really hard impressive stuff because I think when most people see that they just think oh well you're not gonna be like an athlete there's nothing more I love than like rocking up to a start line looking like my hair and bows and then like everyone just like so like not expecting anything and then you just run like a 36 minute 10k and everyone's like oh yeah that's class so um that was the same year that bpn did it as well yeah so there's your team uh there's bpn's team and then there's like 100 teams yeah yeah um but uh i remember uh kind of watching uh that how did you split up and kind of like what was your strategy going into yeah we had quite a small like support team we didn't really 330 miles 240 miles for yeah it's like just over 500k okay so six girls and we had a physio and a driver and no that's what we had what we did was we did team a and team b so we were in like two pods we called them and we did 3k sets so we'd like for example i was pod a we'd go out three of us and we do 3k swatch 3k switch 3k switch times like four four or five each and then you'd get to the rv and then you'd swap over and then when when they were doing their 3ks on and off we'd eat sleep change and then as soon as they're done you'd swap over and we just did that for 52 hours just a casual 52 hours and i kept saying to everyone afterwards i was like the running was fine it was the mental side i think of the speed project that's hard i think that's like most like ultra marathons it's like very different to like road racing a marathon you're like it's hard on your body it's hard the racing and the running is really difficult but I think when you're doing something like that it's just like the lack of sleep the motivation to get back up the running in the dark like all that stuff is what I found like so much harder than like the actual 3k on it wasn't like oh my god I'm knackered it was just more your body's just like fucks yeah yeah it's definitely like you say more mindset and just kind of how far you can run rather than the kind of quality yeah say of what you're used to of running a five fast 5k or fast 10k the only problem is because it's a race and because there's only one of you running at once you feel the pressure that you're gonna run fast yeah yeah yeah so like people think oh you're you're running 3k efforts for 52 hours yeah you're gonna be really slow yeah yeah yeah i assume you you're pretty quick still we well what we found was just hilarious is we were like in pod a and pod b and we didn't like get to see the other pod that much we'd sort of see them for like five minutes as we swapped over and we realized halfway through the race our pod were like getting out the car five minutes before waiting on the side of the road ready to like hand the watch over as a baton like it was like as like a well-oiled machine we were all going not as fast as we could but we were going probably like i think we were running like somewhere like i think i remember looking down and the watch was like average at like 440 pace and we'd done like 26 hours or something and we were literally like and then we like spoke to the other girls and they were like oh we've just been sitting in the car and waiting for them to come up and knock on the window and be like we're done and we were like what that changeover yeah we were like what was your reaction because i'm not gonna lie i'd be fuming we were like we we can't i don't think we were fuming at the time i think because we were like it was competitive but it wasn't like Like we were, I don't know, we were like, we want to like rank, going to be cool.

21:29But it wasn't like we went into it like we're going to win. But it was, we were both, we were all like, what? Why have you guys been sat in the car waiting? And they were like, oh, we're just taking our time. I was like, oh, we're having different vibes in our pods. So we did, we were like, I think we just kind of were like, we'll find a middle ground. Because I basically got like, I went into it kind of injured. I got a niggle like the Monday before we flew on the Wednesday. and I think we had this conversation because I'd come into the RV and I was like fucked I was like I can't remember I literally can't take one more step because my knee was so bad and that's when they were like oh we're not doing it like that we're not running as fast as we can but they were like just chill out and we're like okay so then for the next like we were like three course way in but for the next bit I think like we all just well I chilled out because I was like to run I'm gonna have to go a lot slower and I'd rather run than not run at all um but it was funny when we were like oh you're not doing the same as what we're doing we were like it's a race guys yeah at the end of the day it's a race and yeah yeah no it's interesting so uh you get kind of like three quarters of the way through uh you said that you got a little bit of a niggle yeah um what made you kind of like push on like you say was it the the pressure from the team like you didn't want to let the team down or was it kind of like yourself like no i'm gonna finish this that's out to do this i'm going to finish it yeah because you could have easily just stopped and got in the back of the rv and slept for the rest of the journey yeah i um i missed so we did like these the blocks we're doing i missed the rest of the block because the guy that we're with was like the physio and he was like for you to like do the next bit and like run you know like run up and finish he was like you need to like we need to like do some serious work so the girl i can't remember if the girls did like just two on for the next bit and then he basically like strapped me up massaged me and then we went again on the next bit but I just remember I I'm I'm just like for me I think everything for racing for me it's always like on me I was like I know you guys can do it but I don't want to miss part of the race like I just remember like the videographer was like videoing me filming he was like I'm sorry I've been told to get all footage and I was like it's fine I remember just like crying the back of the lb because you know you're just like I don't know if you've ever had this where you're just like I'm annoyed at my body that it can't almost keep up my brain like I was like I want to do this I want to keep going but my body's like really not letting me so I had like I sat out for like I think the rest of that like block and then I was just I'm just gonna like power through the last bit and the last bit was like the last bit was like the hardest bit but like the most fun bit because we basically aren't to go up you go up to like the top of like the mountain this range and then you see Vegas from the top and you basically run into vegas and you can see the lights and that bit was like snowing and it was like the coolest bit and i was like i'm not and i'm so glad that i didn't just like miss out on that because i was like because my knee hurt a bit no no it's a little bit sketchy as well like running into vegas because you're like running on the side of the highway yeah yeah like it's the only road in basically yeah and you're gonna run i know just i just remember the cars like uh like screaming past yeah yeah yeah i remember that but when they're like big motorway yeah yeah yeah because it's like yeah they say so so the speed project is uh no rules but there is a rule yeah there's no highways like officially you're not allowed to use highway ways so you use kind of like secondary roads a roads uh whatever they're called in in the u.s i don't know what they're called freeways i don't know yeah freeways something like that um but uh like you say it just gets bigger and bigger yeah going into vegas and it's the only road that you go on so um it is sketchy that road yeah yeah with your little head torch on you're like and like you say you've been awake like you don't get much sleep no things like yeah you might have three hours rest but you're only sleeping an hour max i know that's what people say they're like oh but you've got three hours while they're doing it i'm like yeah but think about like getting back from a run you like take your sweaty kit off put some other clothes on you sit down try and eat something i remember just eating like doritos for like 52 hours what flavor the cheesy ones which i don't even like but i remember like looking at all the food in the rv and being like i can't eat like a meal like i was like that's like i need like car bars or something i can just and then like i'd eat that and then i'd like go lay down but then the rv would start moving then you've got to like actually fall asleep did you did you stay in the back of the rv or above oh i was moved i was all there everywhere yeah because i remember that the back of the rv is like the bumpiest bit oh and it's like the back of rb was like the bed so there was a bed there and did you not have a bed on top of like uh the driver yeah yeah yeah so always get that one oh is that better yeah it's well better that one oh always get up there because for some reason see i got put up there a lot because i'm small fair enough so i was always like i'll get up there but i didn't realize that was the good spot yeah i remember that i would like to do it again would you what would you do different if you was to do it again differently i'd probably not go into it injured not that i can change that but i think if i was to do it again i'd like similar vibe of like like choice of team like i just do have an all girls team again i'd have an all girls team and i just choose like the most like crazy athletes i know and i'd want who's on your dream list on this but you don't have to name six because you probably can't think it's six yeah fair i'd love to have anna on it again that'd be really sick it'd be like lucy davis pops into mind so we had um on ours we had montana farah she's australian she's incredible athlete yeah she was she was amazing yeah yeah yeah just like that determined like even she actually got norovirus on the run she was throwing up we didn't know that it was it we thought oh she's just like done too much yeah something like that but and then she had norovirus and we only know that because everyone else got it as well but like after the trip yeah yeah but she had it on the trip and you know what it's like having norovirus like you knocked out yeah she carried on running throughout it yeah people like that yeah it's like you're not even like it's like i don't even care like if you're an influencer or not like it'd be just cool to like find six women that are just like hard hardcore yeah and just like go out and do it and get an RV I think we actually had a really lucky we had a really good team of like the map and like exactly each section was marked we had this massive board and it literally did the logistics was it the driver or was it it was the driver and the like yeah there was just two team that our support was just two guys and they kind of did it all and I was like god you wouldn't you wouldn't be able to do it with them like we would have been like screwed would you have the same two people or would you have different people as your support crew i don't know maybe the same they were so good it'd be nice to bring them back but i also think what would be really cool is have it's just like all women all women yeah like it'd be cool to have like a female videographer female like organizer female driver yeah like get a van get beat the boys yeah plastered on the side let's talk about that beat the boys yeah can you explain it for the people that essentially don't know yes i can explain it i well i guess it's like my slogan online my like catchphrase is I I originally like created it because I thought I met so many people that were like shouting my name in races and like would see me and say something I was like I think I need something to like sum me up so like when you see me like even when I was in London Central yesterday people weren't being like hey Mary they just shout beat the boys at me and I was like I think it's nice to have something like as a community that you like all share and I was like it's also easier like I think it's like if I saw someone I knew or someone famous I'd be like way more embarrassed to be like hey then like if they've got something you can just like sort of say it to them so I create and I was like what do I want it to be and I remember like brainstorming and being like I want it to be something that like empowers women to feel like they can do anything they physically want to do in any like realm of life and I was kind of like I actually used I actually just like plot plugged in loads of stuff to chat gpt and was like give me like like ideas of like what I could do and I remember like thinking beat the boys and thinking that's so cringe like it's so cringe and I remember being like I'm just gonna put it at the end of some of my videos and like see if people catch on I remember like finishing one of my voiceovers and being like hashtag beat the boys and then people started commenting it and I was like okay maybe this is gonna stick and I always think it's so funny that those things are like so lame until they're not and now I've got like people around the world being like hashtag beat the boys and I was like wait this is so cool but the idea of it is yeah like I guess it's the idea is like sum up what my page means and then my page means is like there's a lot less women in sport than there is men even though it doesn't feel like it sometimes like there still is like that massive gap and there's just there's a lot less figures in for girls to grow up to to look up to like who are doing stuff in sport and it was kind of just like that like one word where you're just like i'd love for a girl to feel empowered on the start line if she's on the start line surrounded by men going like fuck beat the boys and she goes into that like with like that sense of like power just confidence as well like yeah like say now like you're turning it into like this intimidating environment or it may seem intimidating because you're surrounded by a lot of males yeah and now you're like ah i'm gonna beat these motherfuckers yeah and it's just like that like as you said i guess at the start when you're like sum yourself up it's like that determination of like i can do this it doesn't matter that i'm a woman or i'm on a period or whatever's going on in your life it's like i'm as much as an athlete as any other man that's next to me and that was kind of like what i wanted to like sum up and just be like here's a little parcel of like motivation for anyone who ever needs it yeah that's that's no i like that and you've done a prime example of that like you say your times they've beat many boys yeah sometimes after i think it was after like sydney marathon and i put my time when was sydney marathon sydney marathon was last october oh oh the first one yeah yeah yeah yeah um what time do you get for that one 255 255 yeah so you beat ollie march on yes i think i saw him in the race and someone said to me you need to beat ollie march on i was like that's hilarious i think i actually went past him like near the end and i was like i feel so i feel so sorry for ollie because um he was he's been going for sub three for quite a while yeah yeah yeah has he got it so the sydney marathon he got it on his watch oh but not the chip time was like what was it three seconds over or something oh like three zero zero zero three yeah like three seconds but his his watch he was obviously timing off his watch yeah yeah yeah and his watch said like 258 or 259 or something like that that's gutting so he actually hasn't got it yet he's not got it yet but uh i'm sure he will get it do you know if he's got a has he got a race in mind to do it i'm not too sure yeah i need to pay some for it he'd love that but that's class again another example uh of you beating the boys yeah if i put i remember i put it in chat cheap pt and i was like can you tell me how many men i beat in this race then I made a TikTok off it because it was something like 27 ,000 and I was like casually just being 27 ,000 men in the Sydney marathon I was like flex oh that is amazing um so obviously like you say you've done a lot of running uh what else have you done what else have I done I I actually branched out a bit last year because I was like let's mix it up a bit so I did how many marathons did I do last year three marathons how how do you find like running that many marathons as well because like it's not like you're messing around with these marathons like you're going all out you're pushing yourself to the limit yeah um do you feel like you need a little bit recovery after yeah a little bit of downtime i'd say for me like two to three marathons max a year i know there's a lot of like talk online i think that's probably like when i got my stress fracture kind of blew up that whole topic of like influences and people like us online like doing too much um and I think like anyone's allowed to do whatever they want I'd like training wise but I think for me I think it's very different for me to like I could just like jog through a 330 and keep training the next week but I think there's I'm yet to do a marathon where I'm not like I'm gonna actually race so I think if I was to like be like oh I'm gonna do London this year and I'm gonna pace my friend to a 340 or something I think I could then I've done Boston on the Monday or something and I wouldn't have needed that like time but for me I'm like two to three marathons a year is perfect for me last year I did London and had a horrible time and then took some time off and that's when I did like an ultra marathon some triathlons and then I came back to train for Sydney and I was like really like didn't want to train for Sydney because I think I'd had such a horrible time in London I was like god I don't want to train for another marathon but then I only gave myself eight weeks train for Sydney and then I had four weeks between sydney and chicago okay why was which realistically isn't enough time to like well not to train again but i obviously like came had a week off did like one normal marathon week training and then like started to taper again but also i ran my first sub three in sydney at 255 and then i ran 250 in chicago four weeks later so i was like maybe this is the trick um there's a i'm gonna butcher his name but there's a there was another guy that um ran two or seven and then two or six four weeks later yeah in the marathon uh i can't remember his name he runs for is he english no yeah yeah phil phil sesman phil sesman yeah he did yeah he did amsterdam yeah and then he went and did valencia oh they were like four weeks apart or something yeah well i guess people forget that like one of my friends once said to me like you're like all these massive like you do these big training runs and training and you do like 34k at like marathon pace whatever and you get like that's you getting fit for the marathon but then obviously 42.2k as a pb is the fastest you've ever ran 42.2k so obviously afterwards you're going to be fitter than you ever have done before so I was found off the back of a pb marathon then I can go and pb my half my 10k like because I'm just fit I'm the fittest I've ever been so then obviously then I went around another marathon was just like fitter but normally I would like to have a nice break of I'd normally like say like four to six weeks of like no like I don't want to start looking at training for another marathon yeah so in that time period uh obviously you'll still go out and run because like say you love running for running yeah yeah yeah maybe it's a way of socializing maybe it you know there's so many reasons why people go out and run yeah um you're not gonna kind of and who wants to like just give it up completely like oh yeah when i say i'm 46 weeks off marathon training i'll still be doing like 60k weeks yeah but you'll just be like just like ticking over yeah and that's like that's the bit i love the most like off the back for marathon training and then i can like go meet my girlfriends who are like non-competitive runners and i can just like do whatever they're doing they're like oh i've got 13k i'm like cool because when i'm in a block i'm like just training with boys the whole time pretty much and also like if they're like doing an easy run i'll be like oh but like i want to like i don't want to go too slow i don't do this so it's so nice after a marathon block because then i actually can like lean into the social aspect of it even more what do you think makes you or makes your training different from other people when training for like a marathon and you just touched on there like your easy run you still don't want to go too slow yeah like well what's it kind of looking like do you because a lot of people say you know take your easy run super easy like yeah yeah look at the watch uh don't worry how slow you're going are you like that or are you still like looking down i it depends i guess because like some of my i do i do believe in like easy runs being easy and i think like one of my pet peeves was like people who are like doing the easy runs and then posting on instagram like their easy runs are like 15 seconds slower than their race pace and you're like

37:55I would happily run like if I'm like in the middle of a marathon block I guess saying like I wouldn't want to run with the girls I'd actually sometimes I prefer to say like if I've got a session in the morning and then I'm easy running again on the same day I would prefer to go out with them because I know that I'll be like forced to go slower and the flip side of that is some of my friends I run with are so fast but then I'll go on an easy run with them then I'm like oh I know that my easy run today it's going to be like 440s so I guess like what makes marathon training I don't know what makes mine different I go with the flow quite a lot with like the easy stuff the sessions I'm like so sessions are like you've got to do them you've got rigid yeah and how many sessions are you doing like when you're obviously at the change throughout your block but like are you doing like a Tuesday Thursday Saturday for example yeah hard sessions I used to like I grew up always Tuesday oh I grew always yeah Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and then a couple of my blocks I've actually done Tuesday, Saturday and then like a maybe a little bit of a pickup run somewhere in between but I found for like in niggles and injuries for like if it's a longer block I can get really fit off like pretty high volume really really good session on a Tuesday like a big session on the Tuesday maybe like a bit of a pickup on Thursday but like nothing of like much no and then like a really good big session on saturday and everything else being easy i can get really fit and i feel like i get there's so much less chance of me getting injured on that because i think it's the sessions and like the carbons and like even just like the mental capacity of like oh my god i've got a session and then i've finished my session on tuesday and i've got easier and then i got i need to like i get like and then i got another session on thursday and then it's like thursday i'm done and then friday i'm chilling and then i'm like oh my god so for me my brain is just like if i'm just like right focus on the session on tuesday easy on the rest week and then focus on saturday i'm gonna get pretty fit off doing that i i completely agree and i'm i'm buzzing that you actually said that i feel like a lot of people think oh you need to do alternate between hard day easy day yeah hard day easy day and that's how your week should be like say doing three hard sessions a week but you're still going to progress i know uh mitch ammons uh from the u.s he does he's a marathon runner he's got 214 marathon i met him at speed projects oh did you yeah that's i met that he was the guy that was like with endless energy yeah yeah yeah yeah happy and i met him that time i remember being like love your energy and then i now i follow him and i saw his marathon i was like he was 214 yeah and he does like he's told me he does one hard session a week yeah and he just but you want to see that session like that session yeah but that session is horrible i remember one of the sessions was like uh uh it was uh six miles hard and two by two miles and then uh two by one mile and it was just like absolutely six a.m in the morning yeah like balls to the wall yeah it was like and it was it was crazy but again that you know having easy all week and then just hitting it hard once a week yeah allows you mentally just to think right I need to smash this session yeah and then it you almost put more energy into that session exactly and I do think even like we were talking about earlier like the wall in the marathon like so much of running is your head yeah and like having and that's why I always say to people when they're like a couple friends have gone to running and they do like they like sign up for marathon they do like a 20-week block I'm like you can't do that because your brain I'm like I was like just even if you want to say you're in a like like pretend that you're doing exactly the same weekly mileage and sessions you would be but give yourself four weeks of just doing that don't tell yourself you're on a block because for me the mental load of being like i'm in a marathon block is so much more than not so i'm like i'm doing the same distance i'm doing the same sessions but i'm not on a block till 12 weeks out at the very earliest so do you think 12 weeks is like perfect for you or would you say even less sometimes well my last two bbs i've done off like way less so maybe like 10 i think like eight's a bit like that's a bit close but like again you're still like your your weekly mileage all year round is anywhere between like 60 100k like yeah like when you're chilling yeah yeah yeah so like you're still building that base but like i say that allows you because you've got that base it allows you to do a smaller block yeah for sure then there's less pressure mentally yeah um as well like i don't know about you but like if I say I struggle with high rocks doing like a 12-week block because yeah I kind of get cooked after like eight weeks I'm fried oh yeah and then you kind of eight weeks you're also probably at the finish you yeah you're fitters and you're like well now I'm ready yeah so I think it's a little bit of trial and error some people it might take like say 16 weeks and it might take them that long but um it might take a lot less for some people yeah like their attention span might only allow them to do an eight-week block or a 10-week block um what i do personally like i like to book like mini races in between blocks so say for example it is 16 weeks till the marathon in eight weeks time i might do a half marathon yeah try and like pb that and work towards that yeah then i'll be like right now we'll start increasing the mileage and building up is there anything that you like mentally to keep you kind of sane because like I say it's quite tough like locking in something for 16 weeks yeah it's over a quarter of a year yeah I know it's mad I think now I'm in a really unique but like weird position where I'm like have been told I can't race a marathon to the end of the year so I'm like okay that's a very long time and I'm like slowly coming back to fitness and I'll be back hopefully in like a month I'll be back so at the moment obviously you've been injured uh where are we on that cycle now you'll be back in a month but at the moment are you running at all are you at the moment are you cross training yeah so i've just got a coach for my cycling and my swimming um which is like really exciting for me because i've just been in this like obviously i did the like literally wasn't allowed to walk came out the boot and i was like like dribble dribble dribble but now i'm in this bit where I'm like kind of like okay I'm cycling quite a lot I grew up swimming so I've got that and I'm like doing run I'm like running like three times a week amazing um when I say running I'm like minutes or like I'm still I'm nearly next week should be my first week I've got like two to three runs with no walking have you stuck to the plan like yeah exact exact because I know like probably someone like yourself yeah like oh I'll just do a little bit more than what it says yeah oh god the amount of times i've been like oh i just want to like do a bit more but i've been like really really good at doing exactly what i've been told and i've got 5k tomorrow which is my first 5k since january which is crazy for me but yeah at the moment cross training swimming cycling and then like the running is like a supplement on the side um but what's cool is now i'll have my runner plan for my running and then I actually have a coach for my other stuff which is really nice because I like wake up and I like know what I'm doing for the rest of the week so I feel like I'm in a training block again like when I wake up I'm like okay Monday looks like this Tuesday looks like this Wednesday looks because at the moment like two weeks ago I was just waking up being like I should go on the bike today like should I do 10k or 100k it's up to me but now it's really nice I wake up and I'm like okay I've got my run this morning and I swim in the evening and like I know what I'm doing um but I'm here now and I'm like 5k is quite a big like marker and like the return to run hopefully like I'll just like keep adding keep adding keep adding um when then I basically what I'm going to do is like I've got a marathon I want to do at the end of the year and from now until then I'll just race everything I physically can do without stressing my bones too much to get me fit i'm not gonna i probably won't pb that but like fit to like stand on the start have you got a marathon in mind i have but i don't want to tell anyone so that's at the end of the year yeah um that's amazing uh will you be doing like you say you want to race everything in between will they just be running races or it will be like you say you're swimming yeah yeah i know i'll definitely i'd like to see where i can get in the like i think i think i could get quite competitive in the triathlon space because i grew up swimming and i'm like had a bit more time to be on the bike i think it'd be quite cool just like to test where i am now you've done one before one or a couple i did yeah i did a sprint last year and then i did an olympic distance how did they go i love them yeah i love them and that's why i thought it'd be cool to be able to like see where i can get with them because like the first one i did i won and i was like just one yeah and where was this dawny lake was it dawny lake no blenheim blenheim blenheim triathlon was like last this time last year talk us through that like how did you just go and win the triathlon well it was a sprint distance so it's not very far so for me it was actually kind of like not really so you're naturally good at swimming so i assume you was kind of like in the lead of the swim or not came out the swim like kind of joint second second with this girl biking how much biking have you done none none at that point when i was racing i'd been i'd been in cape town in january and i'd talk quite a lot with like some of my mates but then when i came back from cape town in feb i literally hadn't been on my bike once and so the only times i think i cycled like four times last year and two of them were a race that's crazy so I was like absolutely shitting myself the triathlon because I thought I've never done transitions before I don't like know how to like I don't know the rules I was like what if I get a penalty like you know because there's like loads of stuff like you have to have your helmet on by a certain point you have to get on the bike at this and like all that sort of stuff but I went in and I just was like I'm just no expectations I'm just as I kind of like to do which is like I'm just gonna race as hard as I can I don't know what the time will be I don't know what that and came out the swim like first second and this girl like her transition was so quick I was like she's gone she was gone before I'd even like put my shoes on and then I must have taken her over on the bike but because that the type of race it was there was loads of heats so it's quite hard to tell where you were and then I remember when I came back into the bike into the transition zone to go to the run I noticed her bike was there so I was like oh no so she must have done the bike quicker than me because her bike was there so I was like okay then I know there's definitely someone in front of me and then this and then the run I just was like I'll just run as fast as I can and it was like 5.4k or something I think I did like 19 something and I came in I had no idea where I was and one of the people like when people was watching as a one of my friends her boyfriend was like oh you're ranked first at the moment I was like no way but there was like so many heats to come in after us in the day that I was like well I don't loads of people could come in faster than me and I remember going home being like oh my god I'm still first I just won that triathlon and I was like that's cool that's amazing that's amazing so after that you then go into a slightly longer one yeah then I was like oh I might as well have another one in the diary so I did the t100 when I say slightly longer that's a lot longer right yeah it's kind of like I think they like kind of like double as they go up it's like sprint olympic 70.3 and then full ironman almost like they double every time then t100 is in between 70.3 um oh no is it just before yeah so i did a hundred kilometers right yeah yeah so i did an olympic distance at the t100 right okay but you can obviously do the 100k and 100k is like probably like very very similar to 70.3 it's like it is slightly that the distance 18 kilometers run yeah like a half marathon yeah the distances are broken up in a bit of a different like way but it's quite similar as like output but yeah and then i did that and i was like it's just i was like it's just fun but like the main thing for me was like I just didn't have like the bike fitness like the other girls and the bikes were just like so much quicker and I was like that's one thing I need to work on then I had a stress fracture and had two months to be able to sit on my bike have you just been doing indoor training like on the turbo trainer no I've done no indoor training all right so you've been I've literally just been out the whole time yeah that's amazing yeah how is it like around London cycling is it all right or do you go out side of london it's i i go out of london it's just the faff to get out i think that's why i'm i need to set on my turbo because i do actually have one at home because when i get set like an hour and a half there's no point in going because you spend 45 minutes getting out of london yeah and then you're like i'll do a little bit and then you're not really like doing a session so definitely to like set up my like situation at home better and then i'll definitely like i think once i've like got a race well actually i do have a race booked but i'm gonna like once i actually like start training for that i'm gonna get that set up so i can like sit on the bike for like hours yeah yeah no that's uh that makes sense um so apart from that have you done anything else did an ultra marathon last year no way which one it was in finland finland yeah it was in the finnish countryside just how did you go about choosing that i was kind of in chats to ultra x and it was kind of just like whichever would fit in my race calendar which i can imagine you're probably the same but it's like there's so many races but it's kind of just like i don't really care which one it is as long as it like fits in like so it's not too close to a marathon and i've got quite a few friends in london who are just a bit crazy and one of my girlfriends i was like do you want to come do an ultra marathon in finland she was like yeah sounds good so we literally just bucked it went out and it was beautiful and it was but it was hard it was 60k and we were like running up waterfalls and stuff that's crazy how is finland as a place i've never actually been finland's a place we weren't there very long it was like there wasn't loads going on no you want to go back well where we went never say never never say never because where we went i think is where they held they do a lot it's like a massive sports city it's called lati or lati lati lati lati and i know that they've done like the world champs for ironman there they do loads of red bull stuff there they that's where they have that massive oh the red bull 400 or yeah is that like when they run up a ski slope yeah yeah that's there that's like where we started was on that track oh mad yeah which was really cool so like maybe i'll go back for another sporting thing but there wasn't much going on outside of that i love that so obviously throughout all this time of doing these amazing achievements all these races and stuff like that you've documented it all yeah obviously grown a huge following like you say beat the boys being part that and everything else um how do you find doing kind of like the social stuff is that kind of like your passion do you find it as a bit of a chore like how do you feel i love it i love making videos i think i never started in with the mindset i'm going to be an influencer like it's going to be my job how did it start i used to work at tiktok oh did you yeah and when i was at TikTok I used to just come home and make videos of like post like come for a run post work um and I used to just kind of document that because my life was like running and working and I've always just been very like comfortable with being in front of the camera I was like a very like video star kid I was always someone was like taking photos taking selfies taking photos my friends like growing up like my friends from school always like if there was anyone in the group that was gonna end up being an influencer like makes sense which is quite nice when it's like your school friends because they like just see it making sense um and yeah I used to just like document it at TikTok and I used to be like a media accounts planner so it's kind of like behind the scenes role but by the time I ended up leaving TikTok I was like sat in front of like big clients teaching them how to make TikToks because you knew everything you knew the algorithms randoms you knew well I didn't everyone was like everyone's always like so you know the algorithm I wish I knew the algorithm it's probably random to the changes every day yeah but yeah I just started making them and I got made redundant from TikTok which was actually kind of a blessing and I had two months where I was like had pay had this time to figure out what I want to do at the time I was like all I want to do is like make content I was applying for like random jobs at startups just to do their content for them but then as that was like growing because I was so passionate about it then my channel started to grow and that's when um you know grace beverly yeah that's when her team reached out because they were looking for a running trainer for her app and i interviewed for that and then got that job and that was like a 12 month contract and i was like well this gives me the stability to be like be self-employed for 12 months and then that's when i was like cool i don't need to look for work i'm just gonna i know i said to everyone i was like i'm just gonna do it for 12 months and i'll see and everyone's like yeah yeah it's not gonna happen but you know you have that bit of like it's a big step to go and I was like I was like worst case scenario I just go back to a job in 12 months and I've given this cool thing it go um and that's kind of where it all started and I remember in like that December I was on like 10 ,000 followers and then I remember just like every month I just had another 10 ,000 another 10 ,000 another 10 ,000 until I was just like a position where I was like yeah this is definitely my full-time job now yeah that's crazy but it's it's nice that you got into it for the love of making it because i feel like a lot of people in potentially your position get into it for well they've kind of they see it as a chore where you have kind of like a love for it yeah got a real love for editing not all the edits all your own stuff yeah yeah not all the time there's sometimes i'm like god i wish someone would just edit this for me but i do love like making a video and then i'll be like i'll be like sat at or sat on the tube and someone be like what you're doing I'm like I'm editing the video we've just taken because I can't wait to like see it together but I also the other flip side to that which I think does come across in my videos is like for me like a training run the training the session to me is above the content which I think is quite unique in this world as well it's like I think a lot of people were like I'm going out to make a video of this run whereas in for me I'm like I'll do my session if my session's good that's a win and if I get good content off of that I get double win but if i i'd always want my training to be above the content i'm not like oh it's a sick video but i had a rubbish session i'll still be like gutted whereas i feel like a lot of people make content to make content wasn't for me like the running is above the content yeah i find that uh particularly hard like um it's one of the reasons i i have tom uh as a full-time videographer yeah it's literally so i can crack on with my training yeah because at the end of the day like as harsh as it sounds like i know people will still love content for content but like for me yeah yeah i need to get the results in training yeah so i need someone i need to make it as easy as possible to make that content yeah like tom will ask me in a session he'll say oh how are you feeling but that's kind of like it yeah yeah yeah and then i can just focus on the session yeah and get it done whereas like you say there's other people's that that'll like sacrifice the quality of the session because they need to get this shot they need to get this shot yeah and then your rest times go out the window and then yeah i think kind of fails yeah um i think i think that will be like i have thought about a lot about having someone like full-time filming just for that i think like last london marathon i had i got a girl to film me like for all my long runs which i was like found like life-changing because i think my long runs were like a big video every week i put out week 10 week 11 week 12 of like my london marathon training and she used to just rock up iphone line bike and then i mean i didn't have to think about getting my phone out because i was like i didn't when i'm running in the middle of my my 8k and my 10k block of marathon pace there's no way i'm getting out my phone to be like you can't even breathe yeah so i was like that was like life changing i do think like i've just left my current management and i'm like just like you know you're like in a bit of a transition with that and everything's like getting like sorted with that i think like the next bit will just be getting someone to like have film all the time yeah because i do think it's so helpful for like for us when it's like the training is first and i just want someone there to film it's like so it'll make it so much easier yeah no i think it makes sense for kind of like the training but then for you like i see like the you've got your own style yeah and you going being like that yeah with your other stuff outside of training and stuff yeah yeah yeah it's so valuable yeah people love that yeah about you i think uh it's kind of you've got to stay true to what you do yeah a mix of both yeah well yours is like training training training it's just dead whereas mine's like a mix of like me and training yeah you more kind of like personality and stuff yeah like hardcore training that's why we tried doing this podcast a little bit so people can actually get to understand like that we're not just robots yeah yeah yeah all the time and yeah but uh no no it's really interesting a question that i have about it all is you seem very kind of like high energy positive all the time and you come across as like someone who turns and makes everything into a positive situation yeah but has there been times in kind of like your career where you have had downs and you have like struggled yeah yeah oh god yeah I think naturally I am a very positive person because I was actually saying this to a friend the other day and I feel very grateful that I've been brought up in an environment in a household where like gratitude is a big thing and I feel like being great I've always been very grateful for wherever I am which has made me feel quite abundant in life in like wherever I'm in that part of my life I like three years ago when I was working an office job and earning just about getting by in London I felt like amazingly grateful to be in London because I was like this is so cool that I'm in London and I'm working so I feel like I've always felt very abundant in my own life wherever I am wherever if I have a lot or I don't so I feel like that's made me very positive I like an outlook on life but that doesn't mean that I haven't had days or weeks or months where I'm like holy shit like life's not great um definitely points where I'm like hard to show up online as like positive when you're like when I got my stress fracture for example like I remember that day being like what do I do like what would I talk about like my my job is to run online my sanity is to run like it's like my therapy like it's so many things to me and I remember just being like oh my god how do I show up online but I do think the one thing I love about the community I've created is like it's like clap at all times like and I've never been worried about showing up online as not uber positive like I'm very comfortable showing up online and being like I'm just not good and like that's the like reality of life and being like going through a breakup like all that sort of stuff like that online is like showing up as like your most vulnerable self the only thing it's going to do is help someone else and that's the kind of way I view it's like I show up online and say like I'm really struggling even if there's just like one girl somewhere in the world that's like same I'm like that's my job done because now you feel like you're with me in this and like we're doing it together instead of me sat at home doing it alone and you sat home doing it alone um it's like the way I see like showing up online and like but I guess the point of like being showing up online and being like I'm struggling but also still having that like part of my brain that's like I think that's what keeps me going as being like yes I'm struggling but also like there's always there's always a positive somewhere like yes I'm struggling because I've got a stress fracture but I can cycle now or yes I'm struggling because I'm going through a breakup but I've actually nurtured my female friendships more than ever in my life and like kind of showing that online that like it's really tough but like you can keep going and I think that's one thing that like even when I was going through my breakup online so many girls and guys actually messaging me being like I'm going through something similar but like seeing you wake up and going for a run is like all I needed to get up this morning and like go and have my coffee and go into the work and I was like that to me more means more than like any PB or anything that like I've nurtured a community of people who like can do that together do you think that only happens when you do show the lows as well as the highs as in like create that community yeah and it's almost like you're more even more relatable because you're showing your struggles as well yeah i do think so i think And we'd be lying if we sat here and said everyone's life was good all the time.

1:03:06I think like every single person that you walk past in any realm of life has something they're dealing with or working on that day or that month or like that year. So I think like showing up and I think this is like a big thing for me online is and I'd like to think that when people meet me is like I show up online as exactly how I am offline. and I think people see that like I'm not like I'll show up and I'll be like today was good or today was bad and I think when people meet me in real life they're like oh you are you are exactly the same as you are online and that to me that's the biggest compliment ever and I think it's scary it's scary showing up being vulnerable online and like talking about like your feelings or like failures because people it's hard to say like I failed here or this has gone wrong I'm struggling with this but i think if anything people will connect to you more because you're just showing up as a human because like no one's gone through life and not dealt with something and then they can relate to that hardship and then they can also relate to you like coming back and like building yourself back up and being like well if she can do it i can do it or like that kind of builds about a story it definitely does yeah like obviously going through struggles if you just won all the time like it'd be boring life would be boring yeah one of my friends said to me she's like everyone be bored you know if you just kept p being p being i was like i wish they wouldn't be that is true um what do you think makes you different in terms of like your recovery your setup your mindset to make you win and have that winning mindset because you clearly have a winning mindset in whatever you do like you just mentioned there you've you've got an injury and you're thinking oh i've won i can go out on my bike yeah yeah yeah what makes it different yeah like what what makes you different compared to other people like do you think because there's definitely a difference and it's yeah hard to for you to answer yeah because it's hard for me to because you don't like to say oh i'm different from everyone else yeah everyone's the same but like uh I guess like self-belief yeah is huge and I guess that's also kind of wraps back into like the beat the boys I think you meet a lot of men who have a lot of self-belief in things that like potentially they've actually not worked for and they but but like as a man you grow up in a world where like you you do just believe in yourself a lot more than a woman does so it's like this classic statistic of men applying for jobs who they're underskilled for and women applying for jobs that they're over skilled for no so the opposite right that's right right and it's like i guess it's that classic thing of like i have so many girls in my life that i'm like oh my god it's like believe like you could like you can do that and like be a bit crazy and like maybe you won't do it but like the self-belief aspect of it i think is like huge because it's like it's quite a male perspective on life of like walk into a room and you can do what you want or like yeah I can get that job because I am who I am or I'm gonna do that I'm gonna run that time because I believe that I can do that time um it's probably the biggest difference to a lot of people is like genuinely just like backing yourself always so when you're when you're setting a goal say for example it's a time yeah are you going strictly off like data are you going off like like say the the optimistic end of the scale i always say like when setting goals like um go as big as you can because even if you fail your failure will probably be better and it'd be a better result than if you'd just gone for this mediocre goal that you know you can hit it's like the saying aim for the moon land and the stars is that it yeah yeah yeah well you've done some crazy big goals uh well i've but i failed like like say i've aimed for big goals but failed but like i'm still like say i think i wouldn't have achieved what i've achieved without going for the big goals and yeah so yeah i think like it's it's also it's it's impressive when people set big goals you know like jamie riddle do you know him he's he's a triathlete okay i think he either comes first or last not like that dramatically but like he he's like one of those athletes that's like he he'll like sit down on a podcast before race and be like i'm gonna win and then he either wins or he comes 13th like in an elite field which is obviously quite big and i'm like rate that because it's like yeah try and then and then sometimes he does win and it's insane then sometimes he doesn't but it's like i think it's so impressive when people put themselves like on that like that really difficult choice to be like i'm gonna put myself in a really hard position here and see if it pulls up pays off no definitely and i think uh one thing that i've come across is the people that are successful and the the winners of the world like have to believe yeah before anything else because if you don't believe in yourself then you're already on the back step yeah uh so you've got to kind of believe push yourself and then you're already kind of like psychologically there's not that barrier anymore yeah if you're going into a race thinking i could never win this yeah then you're never gonna win yeah yeah yeah well someone's think before this morning someone said to me they're like oh what's your marathon pb and i was like oh this and they were like what like do you think that's your like top of the ceiling i was like god no and he was like what do you think is i was like i don't know like i would want to be in the 30 someday like and it's not like that's not gonna happen this year it might not happen next year but like there's no reason I was like why would I not set that as like a big goal because then that means one day I probably will whereas if I say to myself oh I'm the quickest marathon I'm ever gonna run is a 245 the quickest marathon I probably ever will run then is a 245 but I'm like why not be like I'm gonna try run a 235 and see where I get in the meantime yeah no that definitely that does make sense yeah just keep keep pushing and pushing and pushing yeah so you can't anymore yeah and with the like you said about like how do i set my next goals don't know really kind of just like i guess i'm like did this last time where do i where would i like to be it's kind of like oh i don't know if i can do that but it's like okay i ran a 250 let's sub do two sub 245 i'll be chuffed if i could run a 244 or something like that and then just then then I set the training to that and see how how close I can get to that do you ever compare yourselves to others online weirdly I actually don't but I also think it's I'm in a really like lovely sweet spot on like women who run online who aren't elite and who aren't like like not doing it competitive there's like a very small pool of like influencers who are like in that sort of 240 to 255 like bubble so I don't really have anyone to compare myself to so not really that's a good way to look at it because it just shows that you're being authentic in the stuff that you post because like you said there's no one to copy yeah yeah there's no one to kind of like emulate yeah um which is cool um moving on to kind of like recovery all kind of like the science and stuff like that is there anything nutrition maybe is there anything that you do uh that you feel like works and obviously like you say your injury touch wood it's um touch wood it's uh going as planned yeah and you're recovering fine but is there anything that you've been like really focusing on my big thing that I did in marathon training and that I always say to people is double breakfast okay I always just like swear by a double breakfast and so what we're talking here what's the first breakfast first breakfast is like toast or brioche I got into a really weird like obsessive thing about having brioche before I ran just because I was like the time to make toast was like too long oh because brioche like crisp they're like brioche buns you know like they're like you know like tesco like you buy like a bag of like six brioche have they got like chocolate inside sometimes but sometimes the chocolate was a bit too much in the morning so i'd just go like plain and i'd be able to like squish them down and eat them before i'd ever run i'd always do like first breakfast before run like wean myself off a bit of coffee but like i used to always eat like coffee toast or like some carbs before run then exercise and then come home and have breakfast again and i always felt like for me that was just like the best recipe of like that's also when I'm only training once a day I think just like eating around training is like the most important thing like the other eating is less important obviously like eating enough but like eating just before running and eating just after running and like eating like good food for me was like that's like what I need to perform not get injured feel energize like all that sort of stuff is like the double breakfast trick for me i love how simple that is but like you say it does work and all like science and data backs it yeah you need to make sure that you've got glycogen within your muscles before you train um especially for females i think training fasted for females is like really detrimental yeah and i used to i'm like i'm that annoying friend on a run like we'll be on an easy run and one of the girls but i didn't have breakfast and i'll be like literally why i'm like that's not even funny do you know what i mean i'm like you shouldn't be here then if you're not at breakfast like you're just like you're doing damage you're not even gonna get fit you're just like there's no point of you even being on this run if you've not had breakfast so i was like really i'm really like i feel passionately about breakfast that's good that's good the most important meal of the day yeah i say i think cereal companies made that slogan yeah they did and they're still going strong yeah there we go um no really interesting what about sleep do you sleep a lot i sleep so much yeah i think also when i'm in a marathon block i sleep more than now um there's nothing i love more than like when i'm like running 110k weeks knackered and like it hits five o 'clock and i'm like falling asleep on the sofa even though i feel like a 65 year old man but like there's something about like the fact that my body is like so knackered that i'm like enjoying the fact i'm like pushing the training so much but in general i'm i'm a sleeper i've always been like a sleeper i don't know if that's because i just grew up training so i've always been a bit fatigued but i'm like i like to aim for eight hours a night but i'm one of those people i probably sleep for 10 if you left me to sleep yeah do you nap at all i'm not really not really just because of like i find napping i could nap but i think being self-employed i'm but like i find napping hard because i'm like if i'm napping I'll wake up and be like god I should be I should be doing something I should be working um but that's not to say that like when I'm when I start this new training block and it's also if I train for something like a 70.3 and I'm doing double days I'd love to sort of transition more into like as you are a bit more like someone filming you and a bit more like of an athlete's day than like an influencer's day where it's like everything's about eating training sleeping and getting fit and then like someone else is doing editing for you kind of thing like I'd love to have a period of my life where I can just fully focus and like kind of go all in yeah on the performance side yeah because I don't think people realize like when you are a content creator like it's it's quite tough like the day-to-day like people think you just make videos and that's yeah but there's a lot more that goes on yeah and it is quite draining it's full-on and like i say to people like the only way easy description is like i do more work now than i did at my nine to five easily and i think it's hard to see that when you're just like sound cup editing a video because also like everyone's sound cup editing a video these days so it's like when you're just doing it as like fun because you just want to post or you're doing it like as a side time hustle outside your job i think it's the same like it's the mental load isn't it's like same thing we're talking about like when you're training for a marathon like being in a block or not it's like when it's your job it does feel differently because you're like oh no no like I'm not just doing this I'm like no like I have to do this 5 p.m because the client needs it by end of day because they want to post it and get amends for tomorrow and like just explaining that to my friends who like don't really get it is hard and it is also difficult because it is something I love so it doesn't seem like work but I have to be like no I'm actually working today I can't do that because I've actually got a lot of work on and they're like what what do you mean what are you doing and i'm like i've got this ad and i've got this organic video and i'm gonna end up my youtube and i need to go for a run and they're like oh fair by the i guess it's like when you see online that i'm just like running and then posting a reel it's like oh i bet she's not doing that much for the day yeah no it is interesting what about rest days do you are you a fan do you prefer like active recovery days more i'm a big fan of a rest day okay so um what is a rest day to you nothing nothing nada i used to always have my rest days as a sunday so what i'd love to do is long run on a saturday morning that's done by like 11 o 'clock and then i've got the whole weekend of like no exercise and i think that worked really well in my block as well like recovery injury and when i was like really stuck to that routine i think it meant that i could actually my body was recovered and ready to go again monday morning and like for me a sunday was like lion wake up maybe go for a walk make a big breakfast watch a film like I think when you're training to run like a 250 marathon or any any quick marathon you like there is part of your life where you have to treat yourself like an athlete and not like a normal person and I think waking up and like my Sundays were boring but they were also like very needed and like I just ate and watched netflix do you kind of like track your food or anything like that or do you just try and eat as much as possible no i don't track food i think just from a being in a place at uni where it's like very toxic i kind of hate to know what i'm eating in that like respect um so i just kind of eat i'm very much of like eat when i'm hungry don't when i'm not and do you kind of try and stick to whole foods do you try and get your protein in anything like that or you just eat whatever you want I I don't I have like I I think I have like a quite normal diet but then it's interesting because like some of my friends like for example my friend James he he's like kind of always done sport always been an athlete and like his girlfriend fiance Alex is always like so funny because you guys eat the same and she was like you eat like a boy and the fact that like you don't care about like you know like some girls are like oh I wouldn't I don't eat that much pasta because it's carbs or like they're quite like I think girls have a very different like view on food to like boys do but she was like you eat like a man in the respect that you're like I don't care what I'm eating as long as I'm getting enough of it but then it's also like quite clean so I'm like I won't eat like I won't deliberately not eat things but I'll always like go towards like I'll have a massive bowl of chicken pesto pasta and I wouldn't think about it but then if you're like oh we're going out for food I'll be like but I'll be stressed that there's not enough food if we were going out for dinner i'd be like but like where are we going and like is it like on a friday if i'm doing a long run on saturday and i need to know where i'm gonna get enough carbs and it's like it's quite like a i guess it's actually what it is it's actually just an athlete mindset instead of being a male like mindset it's just an athlete approach to food yeah i love how like you mentioned that like kind of more is better yeah and it's like i need calories any carbohydrates rather than shying away from that and thinking oh well i might put on a little bit of weight am I like how will I look in the morning am I gonna be bloated or whatever because I feel like a lot of that goes around I always say and I'm like I feel like the the growth of marathons in life in general I think there's a lot of like there's still a lot of people that are like oh I'm gonna run a marathon because I'm gonna lose weight I'm like if you're gonna run a marathon do it well you're probably gonna get any weight I always get fluffy in my marathon blocks because I'm like you need to store more carbs and like there's no part of me on like a Friday night when I need to eat like a massive bowl of pasta and like x all the other things on a saturday morning when i do my session i wake up i probably generally will have gained a few pounds but i'm like that's exactly what i need to do to get the best out of my training and i think also i'm always in the mindset of like proud of what my body can do not what it looks like yeah that's that's a great it's kind of like like you say for performance yeah rather than aesthetics yeah um no that's really cool yeah I've actually like I think because I've never been like a gym girl I've never in my life like trained for aesthetics I've always just trained to be the best athlete I can be and like obviously aesthetics there's an aesthetic that comes with that because you're training so much but I've never once like I wouldn't even know how to go to the gym and train for settings do you go to the gym and train for strength for like injury prevention for running or do you not really do that i do now because i'm bad at it i'm like that's my weak spot my whole life's always been my weak spot it's like i hate going to the gym i just get bored i'm like not interested by it i'm inside i'm like i enjoy running so much because i'm outside like i've never been bothered by like treadmill running or anything but i aim to go to the gym now twice a week a good week for me is two amazing and no a good week for me is one a great week for me is two but I will always make sure now once a week go do my snc go do my rehab make sure that's all done and as long as that's taking over weekly like that for me is like enough injury prevention two is like amazing three is like unheard of yeah unheard of and I'll be like wow what why did I not have any work this week while I've been to the gym three times I love that what kind of exercises are you doing in the gym is it all around getting better at running is it all running focused or is it kind of like say you said that you don't really train for it yeah it is all like running focused I think all the gym I've ever done in my whole life is like even when I was at uni and I was training with like the athletics team it was always like it wasn't necessarily getting quicker like it was less of that it was just like very boring specific exercises talk us through like a typical session at the moment I guess it's slightly different because it's like coming back but at the moment i'll start my sessions with like pogos and like jumps just to get my body yeah just to get my body used to that and then i will do like squats i'll do calf raises i'll do what's it called when you have the bar on you hip thrusts hip thrusts that's how much i know and what's the one when you've got the plate and you're like this your legs in the air like in the uh plate plate here plates plates like that your legs are like up like is it a core exercise leg press leg press that's like my gym that's like my go-to gym at the moment at the moment is like those exercises just rinse and then i'll core and like i've been going to the gym with my friend at the moment she does arms which is like a whole new thing to me I've never trained my arms in my life so I've been doing like arms like bicep curls yeah we literally hold five kgs and she does this like sets of like 20 like this so I'm like this I'm like I don't know what I'm doing but I feel like and then I'm doing bicep curls I feel like a gym boy yeah but it's funny because I've got arm muscles and like back muscles from swimming as a kid so I've already got them there so now I'm training them and I'm like actually like I think i'm like i've got a physique because i trained because swimming was so muscle heavy yeah that now i can train not much and gain quite a lot of muscle which is like a sweet swap because marathon running you don't i don't want to be too muscly so i'm like there's a sweet swap between like defining and being injury like not getting injured but then not being i don't want to be like jacks yeah no like you said the the couple of exercises that you mentioned they're like they're just the fundamentals that you need to like say i don't think especially for runners i don't think they need to over complicate yeah the gym they just need to go in rinse the same exercises and as long as they they're ticking the boxes like you say their plyometrics they've got in like plyometrics there's so much data coming out um people improving the 5k time yeah tremendously just by starting to incorporate some jumps yeah and even like uh depth jumps where you're jumping off boxes yeah that's the stuff yeah have you always done that i i guess i kind of have because like when we're at uni and stuff we used to do like these like well at the time we were like these are so tedious but our coach like we used to do a half an hour twice a week on the track of just like 25 meters and we just do like plyos squats jumps like whatever it was like can't remember what exercise it was but we'd religiously do that and we'd all be like this was so boring but obviously it was probably like very beneficial for us yeah no no it's really interesting like you say uh the best athletes in the world do plyometrics yeah no matter what sport they do really which is um it's crazy but um no no really interesting question do you cook your own food yes yes no you're good you're good i'd say i can cook i think i got really into a bad habit of not cooking and I think also with the like this lifestyle it's like I am a bit here there everywhere and like breakfast every single breakfast and lunch every day but I think I'll be like here there everywhere away here so it's like or to have like food in the fridge for me for a week it's like well especially as we're living on my own it's like well like that meal I like buy salmon and then I'll be like but then I'm not gonna eat that other fillet of salmon for like four days then i end up like throwing away so i'm like trying to get into routine more and more now of planning but i don't cook loads when i cook it's very boring interesting interesting no just curious um when i cook it's like again it's like it's boy it's boy food it's like mince and rice love that like you say just see it as fuel yeah no matter how it tastes yeah it's got carbs it's got protein yeah i'm like i actually don't care what i'm eating as long as i'm full and i know that i've got like my healthy fats my carbs and my protein i'm fine we were talking before about our mutual friend at alfay man thought yeah you kind of grew up with yeah yeah which is crazy to think about it but um he's he's the worst with his food yeah he'll just bring like raw bagels with him yeah they'll just be chewing raw bagels on the go yeah that's what someone said to me the other day plain pasta yeah i'll do plain pasta before race i used to do before race when i was little i used to do jack of potato for breakfast like an apple sorry please explain this are you cooking it the night before is it like already done or is it like microwaved cooked the night before wrapped in tinfoil in the fridge and then i'll take it out and i'll be like i used to go in the car on the way to race and i just like cold as well cold wow whose idea was that was that like your dad's it was one of actually one of me and alfie's mutual friends cameron he was like complex carbs really like there's like pretty much no taste and it's like i can't remember there was another something else but i was like i guess there's loads of things that complex car but it's like really niche but he was just like i just believed what he said he was like it's really good i'd do it and he was racing really well at the time so i thought i'm gonna start eating jack potatoes for breakfast if that's what it takes maybe i should start doing that that's from my thing on before long when i sat in the morning meat eating my jack of potato like an apple that's amazing skin on as well or not yep skin on skin on yeah yeah i thought the skin would have like too much fiber in yeah true well i used to eat porridge and it just went straight through and i thought i can't be doing that anymore i'm just simple i just have cocoa pops really see i can't do milk ah right okay can't do any like liquid before i run no no no and you said did you mention that you you started quitting back on coffee yeah what's the reason behind that i went or i like went no caffeine for like probably like two or three months how did you you find that i just i was had i had proper withdrawals like i'd be at my desk at like 11 and i'd have this like banging headache and i was like oh my god it's i've not drank enough water and then i'd be like oh no it's because i'm not out of coffee i'd like genuine like i was like coming off a drug withdrawals for like well i guess it is a drug isn't it um but I was just getting really anxious and I was like really busy at work and there was a lot going on but I'd like I'd be like sat doing something and I'd be like I feel physically anxious like I can feel my heart rate I can feel like I'm stressed and I'd be like there is nothing to be stressed or anxious about now and I was like I think it's the coffee so I'm just gonna like not go go cold turkey but like just wean myself off a bit how many coffees were you having not loads like two or three like i wasn't like crazy crazy like six um and i just started drinking matcha because it was caffeine so i like but it was just slow release and i just didn't get that like spike and then that like come down from it and i and i did feel great but then i went to australia and the coffee in australia was insane it's great and i was like the culture around excising coffee was just like too good to not miss out on that so then i just was like straight back on the coffee now i just have one one or two a day but i do try and like save myself now like i've got a really lovely coffee machine at home that i don't use enough now but like for example this morning i knew i was going to an event i was like i don't want to have a coffee with my friends so i didn't have one at home before i left the house and then i was like excited to have one when i was there but i do think it is like a crazy drug that we all just like consume like everyone's reliant on it yeah and everyone will tell you that they're not addicted to coffee yeah or caffeine yeah and like really hang on try it try just going without coffee or not having anything and i did it and it was and it felt like i was coming off like some sort of program of like i was like headaches every day and i was like i had to really get through it and then i was like feeling really low energy but then like it's like i guess like i'm not like coming off anything and then you come out the other side and you feel amazing and i was like also quite nice to not be reliant on it i was like i can wake up and like not have a cup like not have a coffee and i was feeling so much less anxious that it was like so worth it for me but i am definitely fully back on the caffeine yeah i think the uh the positives of not having caffeine like you don't really note it like you say you do feel like you say it's nice to be not reliant but yeah there's not that many downsides really unless you get anxious yeah yeah yeah yeah like now i'm like i didn't i wouldn't like i'm not like oh god i've had a coffee well i just get a headache i do get a headache if i it like enhances and it's obviously proven to enhance and enjoy its performance yeah so like i assume within like marathons and stuff you're taking on caffeine in the form of like gels no nothing no i stopped doing caffeine gels like a good year ago because they don't agree with you or i just kind of felt like they were a bit of a placebo i was like if a placebo works well well yeah it's not working it was working but then i found that when i wasn't having it was working the same okay yeah so it's kind of like i think i just started testing him in like i'm not gonna i used to do like non-caffeine caffeine non-caffeine caffeine and i was i'm just gonna try no caffeine and i was exactly the same and i was like yeah i don't need that hit but i do get i understand when people say like i don't care if it does nothing but i know that 30k i'm having a caffeine gel i'm gonna get that like extra boost even if it is a complete placebo i do understand that but yeah i've just like not had a caffeine gel in like over a year what do you think you'll be doing in like five to ten years time do you ever think about this yeah a lot because i don't i love my life where i'm at now and i love what i do but i have big goals and like i don't want to like just be an influencer i want to like be i want to be like a business and i want to like turn what i've got now into something that's like bigger and i want to be like yeah have you got any thoughts on how you can do that i do but again i can't say it can't say so it's a it's a work in progress there's a work in progress or something in my head that's like huge that's like that's what that's that's when you said that question like that's what i see my future being um and then yourself like so let's take it take that away but you see yourself still being in london just see yourself i'd say 10 years time yeah i would love to i love london and like i grew up on the edge of the peak district and i go home and i do miss that but i think like even today like when i was just like liming through like soho i was like god it's good there's just a buzz that you don't really get anyway yeah but london's so expensive so like i would love to be in london for the rest of my life i'd love to have kids in london but like I would only do that if I had the means to do that I'm not gonna like struggle through living in London for the sake of it so I guess it's like so dependent on like where I end up but like if not I definitely my my my two options are live in London for the forever or live on like a commute like somewhere like genuinely in the middle of nowhere in a cottage with like countryside around me that i can run around it's like a 10 minute drive to a train station which is like a 20 minute drive to london 20 minute train to london because i think i always want to be connected to london because i think it's just like it is just great just being around that hub and i think i just like but then maybe i'll feel differently in five years how do you find training around london because like i obviously it's a little bit different for us we we live in manchester we we travel down to london uh we normally stay in a hotel this time we've got an airbnb but like stopping and starting like when you're running yeah certain places that you like to run yeah just like not have that stop friction i'm i am quite lucky that i live round like so many parks so i can like run down to battersea i can run down to hide clap in common what's the best part best part sessions i do all in battersea just because it's it's literally 2k perfectly from my door to the corner of the gate and then i can just do my sessions but i actually kind of avoid batty if i'm not doing a session because in my head now i'm like that's a pit like that's yeah that's session place um and then up and down the thames is nice and it's like a lot less stopping i imagine when you come tost lindon you probably stay quite central yeah so it's like around here to be fair yeah which is like so different to like if you went to like Wandsworth or like Putney I feel like it feels very different and there's a lot less like stopping and starting but I love training in London I think there's like a massive the fitness culture here is like I've never found a similar one in the rest of the world um and there is always someone who will train or run or cycle at like any time or any day which I do that's kind of like a key as well like just to keep in like I don't know training enthusiasm high yeah like training on your own all the time like it does suck yeah yeah yeah and I think that's like one thing I want to like do in the near future is like actually create my own training group because I think there's a lot of training groups but there's a lot of like traditional sort of like old school club clubs feel like they're like fight clubs like you're not going to know about them yeah yeah yeah like keep themselves to themselves they don't they don't want new people like they're like they're very like which is cool and i love that it's so like the running i know which is really nice but i do also think there's like a space for like and i don't want to make like another run club or another like which is kind of crazy i don't even need i don't even want it to be inclusive like it can be exclusive because it's like people who are rocking up and like training but i think it'll be a really cool thing to create like a like a new athletics club of like people who want to like rock up and train and like right we're meeting here at 6am and that's what we're doing or like we're going for an easy run but it's like an easy run at 4 45s so it's like not inclusive but like i also think there's like a gap in the market for that like there's a lot of run clubs that are inclusive and it's like i don't want to rock up to a run club and run at six minute k's because that's not a run for me like i want to go to run club and actually run yeah so like i think that's like a cool goal of mine to like create a training group i guess well i think that's uh that's an incredible thing like say we we like it i think i think everywhere lacks that kind of training group where like say people are invited yeah but with the intention of everyone's gonna do the session yeah everyone's gonna go hard yeah and you're not there just to mess around yeah yeah yeah yeah and like having a coach as well for the training group as well so it's not like almost like would you would you coach you said that's where it kind of gets yeah would you coach it or would you or would you like ask for a coach i think yeah i don't think i would want to be the coach i think i'd want it to be like a cool training club set up by me but like bring in an ex-olympian he's just like sick with a stopwatch yeah gotta be like old-fashioned yeah yeah like yeah stop watching just being like right we're doing five by five k today and everyone's like the bike yeah yeah they're on the bike and it's just like six girls are just like cool and then it'd be cool for like when people like for example come down to manchester like oh i know that training club runs and then people can come join that like that it's that vibe yeah it's not just like another pure sport that's amazing thank you for today i really appreciate it thanks for having me no it was a great chat um and best of luck with obviously returning to full fitness yeah thank you you're gonna smash everything that comes in your way i think thank you thank you mary