Michael Heaton - #19

0:00Michael Heaton, how we doing? Good mate, I can't believe you've managed to get me, finally. A lot of people have been waiting for this episode. I hope I can live up to it. No yeah, I put out on my Instagram stories, like who do people want to see? And your name pops up more than anything. No way. I think it's because you're so mysterious. Yeah, I've remained elusive over the years. I've not really done a lot of these. I think in the beginning I got sort of like chucked into it with Diary of a CEO and you know moving on I think you know you've obviously been on Ollie's as well but I've not really done that many on my own I think this will be the first one that I've done on my own I've always been quite lucky to have George next to me no it's sick we chat every single day like we're down there in the gym you train every morning and the reason I wanted to actually get you on is because I see how hard you work downstairs I see how hard you work every day in the offices and I don't know I just want to have the chat and yeah ask you why you still do this and yeah so we'll kick off I just want to start with like what were you like as a kid like were you always creative uh yeah I was always creative I was super shy though like proper proper introverted um yeah going to school for me was terrifying like did not like um what we're talking like secondary school or like uh primary school primary school yeah well even even nursery nursery you know my mom's always got memories of like trying to peel me off her and like you know because I just didn't want to go.

1:52I just, the idea of it was just like, yeah, terrifying. So when did you start being kind of like creative? Were you kind of like sporty as a kid? Was you kind of like into your art? Was you doing stuff from a young age? Yeah, I mean, my mum always says like, you know, even as a baby, like you were looking at everything in terms of like how it works. Like you wanted to take everything apart and see, you know, how it's made. Like I was so interested in it. And then in school, obviously with just getting like a, getting given like a, you know, like a sketchbook or a notepad, I was always just, you know, doodling in them all the time to where it was becoming a problem.

2:38Yeah, no, that's quite interesting. And like the sporty side, obviously I see you right now, like you're in the gym, you're slinging weights, more weight than most people would ever think about lifting in their lives. Like you're so strong. You're so athletic. Like, I think we did box jumps the other day and you did 50 inches. Yeah, yeah. Which is some height. Like, I think we worked it out and like less than, I think it's one in 10 ,000 people can do a box jump of 50 inches. Yeah, yeah. I think that, I don't know what that is. I think George has touched on this as well. It's like some sort of genetics involved in that because he's really good at like the sprints, isn't he?

3:13So I think we've got like some sort of like fast twitch muscle thing going on. um yeah but you're you're kind of like working hard down there but was that like always a thing like in in school like do you remember back to kind of like sports day or anything like did you shine or was you not really bothered about fitness or like well when i say fitness sports yeah yeah yeah i think um you know we had a sports day there which was super competitive um and then my dad actually took me swimming a lot um and i can remember like you know like really going for it in the pool and stuff. But it actually didn't really go anywhere.

3:54It kind of only turned into like, I'd say sport-wise, more like skating, wakeboarding, that kind of thing. Like later on, I didn't really follow down into anything specific. I didn't get a hobby in sort of, I don't know, the usual things you would, you know, like tennis. So like you say, skating there, like who was your idol like growing up was it kind of like was tony hawks around then yeah yeah tony hawks was around um yeah bam margera that kind of thing like yeah loved loved that sort of era and what they were wearing and yeah they just looked so cool yeah interesting and then obviously you're two years older than george yep how was it growing up with george was it kind of like were your friends were your best mates were you fighting was it a bit of both uh yeah i mean i'd say best mates but we did fight as well um there was definitely that like sibling rivalry there um because we were just in competition with each other but like in a good way you know it's like i'd learn a trick on a skateboard and then he'd want to do it but he'd want to do it bigger and better and yeah george is pretty competitive i feel like you're you're like you you just leave it you'd be just like all right and then George is like no I've got to have the final say he's got like one up yeah one up yeah but in a good it was so good though because it just pushed us pushed us so much and I think that's what shines through in in the business yeah I like you see that kind of like let's say years and years later yeah you see how like you're still competitive but in different ways yeah um you're you're competitive in different ways but you also like have found your roles yeah i think we we definitely grew up and and grew into each other and sort of like realized you know where his strengths lie where my strengths lie um yeah i mean i think that's good because i think if we were both sort of like fighting for that for that like presidential role i think it wouldn't work yeah and are you happy with kind of like your role of being uh kind of like the the creator the designer the the artist behind a fashion brand that literally uh walks a walk and kind of like leads the way i'd probably say especially in the uk yeah uh industry of men's fashion like the and it's all due to like you said the logos the prints yeah obviously you've got the the quality of the material but like there's the prints that you design that goes on the t-shirts that no one's ever seen before yeah and like no one like people are copying but yeah like you're not copying if that makes sense like yeah you're leading the way in that yeah i feel super lucky um i think in that respect super lucky to have you know george by my side there who you know because i'm not a businessman um i'm definitely more of a creative artist type like I'm you know it's a dream to me to be able to my favorite days are like when I've got nothing in the calendar apart from designing um to come in and just think about that so you're kind of like almost like back of house designing and then George is more like the spokesperson he's going to events he likes kind of like showing up to events and being kind of like the face yeah obviously you're both the face um and it's very clear that you are both the founders um but he likes to be kind of like dealing with the pr stuff like that yeah like say you're doing the design in the back yeah i think he just naturally um naturally enjoys doing that because he's always he's always sort of like been the one to do that from the beginning so i think he's just grown into into that whether he actually likes it deep down or not i'm not sure i think he does yeah no it's funny though because obviously george has got a huge youtube uh he's actually separated the channels now you've got the represent youtube you've got his youtube but i always see like on the comments the most requested stuff is let mike do a youtube like and you did one didn't you you went to um portugal yeah to the factory and you showed kind of like how everything's designed.

8:16Yeah. But no, it's cool. You're kind of like the mysterious guy. Yeah, I don't know if like the comments are there like that because I don't do it, you know. Like if I started doing it, I don't know how it would go because I think there's something about being mysterious and something about, you know, not revealing too much. But yeah, I don't know. Yeah, anything like that, like sort of like peeling back the curtain and showing people, you know, what we're like and how we go about doing things always does really well. Yeah, no, it's cool. So let's take it to when Represent started. You've been going at Represent now for almost 15 years.

8:55Yep. What was it like at the beginning? Do you remember that first design or graphic that you created that you was actually really proud of? Yeah. Obviously, you know, I won't go too into it because I'm sure people have heard it thousands of times, but it started in the latter half of my university years. George was in college doing a final major project and one of the ideas he had was to start a brand. So throughout sort of my last year in uni, we'd been building on it. And he'd asked me to do a few designs. so I remember the first one that I did which I'm not that proud of looking back I bet it was at the time yeah it was kind of like this um scripty uh text it was like because around that time um we we were like super into Adobe Illustrator so we were learning like you know the pen tool properly and it was like you know my first shot at designing like a script logo from from nothing it wasn't a font it was like all right so like hand drawn hand drawn yeah yeah that's cool so you're not you're using like clip art or anything no no no yeah back in the day yeah um and the way that like that sort of works at university is you they don't really teach you programs it's just like you're kind of meant to do that in your spare time um so like all we were doing was just messing around on photoshop and illustrator and trying to come up with with these designs so what was like the the first print that you did that you was like this is sick or the first hit yeah yeah and what was it like kind of like trying to get it off the ground like obviously putting your designs on t-shirts you started off with t-shirts like how did you go about selling them like yeah like in the beginning it was it was like sort of i don't know thinking back it was like leaving university and watching all of my friends get a job in graphic design like going down to london or like just finding like an agency and um yeah just it was it was quite a daunting um like feeling and it wasn't really something that i wanted to do like i didn't really want to like design like leaflets or like logos for people um and because we had this thing that was very obviously like in its infancy um going on it was kind of like you know we were young and we had the balls to just say should we just jump straight into that and and give that a go and see sort of like where it goes instead of going down the path of getting you know what was your family like were they supportive like obviously you're very close with you're a very much a family man like you're very close for your mom and dad your sister uh george as well um were they supportive or were they like what you're doing yeah they were they you know they could obviously see over the years how into um our we were and uh yeah they were like supportive but they didn't really understand they were they were kind of like all right yeah yeah give it a go Yeah, see sort of like where it goes.

12:22Like my mum loves fashion. So she was like obviously excited just to see us so excited about, you know, like the fit of a t-shirt or the fit of, you know, some jeans or whatever. So it was kind of like, when I look back at it now, it was a way how we could carry on doing what we were doing. But like, you know, it was a way how we could sell our art. in the beginning so it was like the canvas would be the t-shirt surely you know i think we were thinking like you know is it easier is it easier to sell a t-shirt than a canvas painting or yeah i suppose like you say i suppose it probably is and it probably gets closer to like say for example your dad's business your dad's business is very black and white like it's in the motor industry yeah um it's very black and white where i don't know like fashion is more in this gray area like people have an opinion yeah on if it looks cool or not yeah and you can't decide what their opinion is yeah whereas like if you're selling a van yeah or a bus yeah yeah you know that it's good and you know people are going to buy it exactly because they need it yeah it's like obviously people need clothing but like they have a choice and they it's kind of this gray area like i said where it's an opinion yeah that's i think that that's both a good thing and a bad thing like for me what you're just talking about we call it um like non-linear so you can't come into work and work on something for an entire day and then everybody in the room is going to like it you're always going to get opinions of you know two people might like it six people might hate it and not get it um it's just very like that and the way the way of working when you are a designer is like you said it's not black and white you can't just come in punch a you know load of numbers into a calculator get you know x amount of reward for for the errors you put in that day you know you could come in design something and absolutely hate it by the end of the day or think it's really good go home come back in the morning look at it and go that is dog shit screw it up it's like there's not there's no like um there's no like linear like input to output yeah it's not it's It's not a direct correlation where you put time and energy in and you get money as a reward.

15:07Yeah. Like you're not trading your time for money. Exactly. It's like this area where like it's, yeah, it's like anything within your business really because if you look at any kind of like marketing scheme that you do, say if you're taking on an athlete, like you don't get direct sales from an athlete. Yeah. It's kind of like secondary. Yeah. And you can't see that straight away, whether you do a campaign yeah whether you do like all you're doing is putting like imprints into people's mind and like later down the line they might say oh i need a new tusha i'll go and buy represent yeah yeah but they're not buying represent straight away no it's like you've got giving them touch points yeah and it's it's interesting obviously that's a big problem across like any like fashion brands like where where you put your time and energy like say do but I think represent do it probably the best that I've seen the amount of level of detail you go into just on like the fits like I used to um do a bit of uh fit modeling downstairs when George actually left yeah to go to LA they were like oh we need someone to to do the 247 stuff so yeah I went in and I was just mind blown by like the amount and attention to detail I always thought a clothing brand as ignorant as this sounds like you create a design so say might you create a design and you go onto a website and it might be a website from like say portugal china wherever and you put on your design yeah and you get a thousand t-shirts and that's it yeah i'm sure a lot a lot of brands do work like that but it's definitely not like the amount like say that the fit some of the words that we're coming out with do you know like oh it's a science yeah it's a whole science of how things like drop yeah how they look like the materials like not even looking at the materials like when they're first made but what are they like after 50 washes yeah do they shrink do they not yeah you can't just have the same pattern for something and just change the fabric because it looks completely different and then you know like when you start altering one measurement you've account for that sort of everywhere else so it's it's really um and then there's that element and then what i find mind-blowing is you've got a you're designing now probably for 2027 2028 yep falling to 27 yeah so literally 18 months away you're designing and you've got to see into the future to see what people will find fashionable then yeah wish we had a crystal ball but we don't well i don't know you might have something special mike um yeah in that mind of yours but uh yeah it's it's crazy because you've hit the nail on the head quite a few times um but i think one thing that you don't do is you're not like this fast fast fashion brand where you're kind of just trying to adapt to the times yeah you're trying to kind of make what you think will be cool yeah And then just going with it.

18:08Yeah. I think that to me is an easier process than trying to worry about what trend is going to come in. I think if you just sort of like be yourself and build on the things that you're really good at, I think by the time that thing comes out, it's not going to feel obsolete. You're still going to be like super excited about it and can't wait to wear it. and that's always been like a that's always been like mentally an easier path to take than than trying to worry about um trying to get this thing on trend or the right color or you know when you when you first started what were your inspirations obviously like you said you were skating yeah um was there anywhere that you was taking inspiration from yeah um so obviously we We watched a lot of skating, but we also watched music channels just all day, like Scuzz and Kerrang on repeat.

19:13And we could see sort of what those musicians were wearing. They were very like West Coast, like LA based. So we sort of had like a glimpse of that world. but then when we tried sort of like going out here and and and looking for clothes like that we found it really difficult to find um so we were like right why don't we just make stuff you know that we're seeing on these rock stars but like over here and and see how that goes and I think that was like the sort of beginnings for the DNA of the brand interesting so like you say taking stuff from LA when was the first time that you guys actually went over there and saw these clothes in person yeah I remember like stories like talking about like every even now every time you go over to LA like you're in the thrift shops yeah yeah thrift shops are kind of like charity shops yeah right yeah yeah so it was um I think it was around 2017 uh we went with a a load of mates and we got an Airbnb.

20:18I think there was about like 10 of us or something because we'd been watching the show Entourage. And it's sort of like, if you've seen Entourage, it's based around like a main character, which is a movie star. And he has like this crew around him, this entourage of his mates. One's his like half brother, I think. and there's like a real sense of like camaraderie around like that group and we kind of had that same feeling when we started this business. It was like a group of mates so we could definitely like relate to that show and when we saw it, we were just like, oh my God, look at the weather, look at, you know, just the restaurants, the houses, everything.

21:12we were just like blown away by it and we were like right why don't we just go and see what all this all this all this fuss is about um and we booked booked a flight there and this airbnb and it was like some sort of like gothic mansion i think it was um do you remember kat von d from uh la inc that show it was her house um so we stayed in there in this in this like yeah had like this like gothic elevator in it and it was it was it was a bit mad it was like whoa what was it like back then because that's 2017 that's nine years ago now yeah like i well just going off kind of like the the history of the brand like this was before rep kind of like blew up like you're still working your asses off not that you're not working your asses off now but you know what i mean yeah like um you're still trying to make it yeah almost like what was it like went over to LA, like I assume you didn't have as much money.

22:12You didn't like, if you were just trying to get pie, what was it like? Was it funny? It was a real shock to, yeah, you know, we landed there, instantly saw like how many nice cars there were. We were driving up the hills, looking at these houses. And I think one night the house that we stayed in had this like back access to this hill where you could stand and you could look straight down at the Hollywood bowl. so like you could pretty much see a concert without going to it it was it was really mad and obviously the view from there looked absolutely amazing and um I remember just like turning around and looking up the hill and thinking my god like the amount of these mansions that are sort of in these hills I remember thinking like you know what are these people doing like because there was just so many of them and and the house prices there are like ridiculous and yeah it was a it was a real like eye-opener because i think like from you know like knocking around in our town in uh in horwich we were kind of city shout out you know like we we thought we'd made it and then obviously you know yeah it's kind of like you're the big fish in the small pond exactly and then you go over there and it's an ocean and it's like whoa oh, right, okay, there's levels to it now.

23:32And that, I just loved the houses there because they're so different. It's like no two houses are the same. Yeah, the architecture is like crazy. It's crazy, yeah. They must have different sort of laws for planning permission and what's allowed there. I think it actually comes from, because all the movie stars were sort of moving there, they wanted to bring a piece of their home with them. So they kind of modeled their house off what their house back home looked like. And it kind of became this like eclectic mix of buildings. And I think it's just carried on to where you can sort of like do what you want, really.

24:11But yeah, I was just in awe of these houses and the views they had. And I was just like, right, we need that. That's going to be like. So that was kind of like the goal that lit the fire. Yeah, 100%. And what was it like that trip? So let's say like 10 lads going over there. You didn't really know LA. Like what, what was it like? I mean, was it as successful that first trip? Was it as successful as what you thought it'd be? And what was the main aim of going out there? Was it literally just to see it? Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't really like a trip about sort of like securing a deal or anything like that.

24:49It was, I think we'd done a few photo shoots whilst we were out there just to sort of like take advantage of how sick everything looked. But yeah, it was mainly just about like having a good time, like having a bit of a blowout. And I remember it was pretty mad in the beginning because we just didn't know where we were going. And then you have that many people that you just thought like, right, let's just start walking and see sort of like what happens. And I remember one of the lads that worked for us, he put together like a list of clubs for every night. So we had like some sort of itinerary and if we felt like it, we were just going to go out every night.

25:35I don't remember. Kind of like, just like a lad's holiday. Just like a lad's holiday really, yeah. It was like experiencing all the food, smashing the gym and then sort of like going out. I remember, I think it was like the second, or it might have been the first night out. So we'd gone out there and we'd met these people in a club and they were like, oh yeah, do you want us to arrange a house party? And we were like, yeah, not expecting anything of it. Yeah, we might as well. We've got this mad house, might as well throw a party in there. And I remember by the time we were coming back to the house that night, we started seeing like a queue of ubers up the up the road and like people you know like crowds of people walking up and we were like surely this can't be this can't be for us like and uh i remember like we got there and we saw like security on the door of our own gaff and we were like your own house yeah yeah we were like oh shit like what have we done here like this is this is getting pretty serious and And yeah, I think there was like 300 people there.

26:46Any like big names or anything? Yeah, there was a funny one. There's, do you know, Chum Lee from the show Porn Stars? He was there and then Don Johnson was there as well. Wow. And there was like talks of Rihanna coming and this guy on the door was like Adam Sandler security. And it was like, I don't know. I think it was getting to a point where it was getting so big that we had to like shut it down. So I think we ended up like paying the security guards on the door to like get everyone out. And yeah, it was mad. It was like they'd already set up sound systems. There was people that was bringing in.

27:25So literally your second night, you meet some random guys in a club. Yeah. They're like, let's throw a party at your house. You're like, yeah, let's do it. Yeah. And then everything's kind of like, it's just chaos from there. Chaos, chaos. And I remember the day after the owner of the house was round and he wasn't happy. You had seen it on CCTV. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he threatened us to get out. It was crazy. What a time. Yeah, so we were sort of like 11 lads scratching our heads on go. We're thinking, what are we going to do? That's crazy, that's crazy. Moving forward, so obviously now, let's say 15 years in, the the business has blown up like you've gone from like literally working out of kind of like a garage to then having an office and a hq with over 100 people in horwich then you have uh the la office you have a london office and then you have stores like actual physical stores yeah your flagship in manchester london and then la like and you're hitting revenues of over 100 million yeah yeah how how does that make you feel you say it's hard to put into words you know even just hearing you say that it's like is that you know it's crazy because like but i see it every single day and every single day it's like this it's almost obviously like you say when you when you say it like that it's incredible and it's amazing but like every single day it's like you're going to war like you're you're still like in in the trenches and it's still like this isn't good enough this isn't like we need to get better we need to get better i don't think you you and george and the whole business like i don't think you take time to step back and see what you've built yeah yeah and i think we're we're like naturally fall into that sort of like worry that the the bigger the responsibilities are like the more the more sort of pressure it is and it's yeah like you said it's we do we do obviously like step back and think my god like it's it's just unbelievable like what we've achieved but yeah it's weird it's like the goalposts have just kept sort of like slightly moving you know as the brand's gone on like like you said from the days of the garage it's like you know can we get this thing off the ground and then we get this unit and then it's like how are we going to fill this place and then you know a month later you filled it and then you're looking at the next one and it's just sort of like you know can we do shows and you do a show then you get you know stockists and then it's like I don't know it's just it just it sort of like keeps moving as as it goes on you know like can you know could we open a store could we open a store in LA like and then yeah I think it's like there's definitely a such a proud feeling but at the same time the responsibilities are like sort of like mounting up and you are aware.

30:48Do you think that? Do you like, because you could easily think, right, yes, we've made it to a successful figure. Like I'm set for life in regards to financials and stuff like that. But you're also looking after, there's a hundred people working in just this HQ, just this office. There's a hundred people here. That's a hundred families. Yeah. It's a hundred like livelihoods, isn't it? It's all like depending on one business success of the brand. Do you feel that pressure? Yeah, I do. But I think I've slowly grown to sort of not put it to the forefront of my mind. It's there, but it's in the back of my mind.

31:32And, you know, concentrate on like the business and running that first. But yeah, it never goes away. I think people who tell you they're not bothered about that sort of stuff, they've got to be lying because it's definitely there. And I think it was last year now, you took on investment. Yeah. And this... Well, nearly two years ago. Nearly two years ago, you guys took on investment and yourself and George and other shareholders of the business, basically you got to pay out. that kind of like set you for for generations yeah um i mean it depends like yeah it depends like you say it could easily be spent the goalpost can move again and you can sort of look at you can look at say like the the price of a house you know how much can that vary and get a house for 200 300 million like so it it depends like how you look at it but yeah definitely so and the point why i said that is because you've not changed one bit and george hasn't changed one bit since getting on that investment yeah like you know i think a lot of business owners they they dream for the day where they can sell part of their business yeah and be set for life yeah like sort of like foot off the gas yeah foot off the gas yeah like george describes you and i hope that you don't take this offensive but he describes you as the richest poorest man he knows I think it's because we just didn't let that we didn't let that affect us, it didn't really change anything to me, if anything that just cemented the thought that what we do we do it for passion and we're not doing it for money exactly that and I see you every single day my next question would be like every every single day you're here in the gym with me in the morning and then you finish 8 30 you get showered you're out by quarter to nine and then you're here till 8 p.m 9 p.m locking up locking up you you literally lock up yeah most nights yeah yeah and you're here before most people like you you got that car park yes the girls are training yeah but like you're in here and then you're not leaving until your last one you don't need to do that anymore i know realistically you don't need to do that and when you're in here you're just indoors all the time behind your desk working on the next designs with your little team and you're kind of like buried away you could be on a beach somewhere enjoying life you could be on you know jet skis whatever and you choose to keep showing up here every single day why is that it's purely just for the love of the game like you know if if you if you i don't know it's like this is what i love doing with my time you know and i also as well bro you know how that beach life is i've seen you on a beach and you get agitated after 30 minutes and you want to go it's remember remember we went to hawaii last year we're all like that we're all like uh we went with obviously um me emily you holly uh george ashley and then uh obviously john his girlfriend and it's so funny because we're all sat there in the the same kind of mental thought yeah we'll just go to hawaii we'll just chill on a beach for five days and every single day was full on we were doing so every single day whether it's climbing mountains whether it was fishing whether it was just like bike rides or runs to the coffee shops going to the gym it was a full on week it was like a fitness holiday really yeah it was because none of us can just sit there and do nothing well do you know what actually I've got that side to me I think where I could I can chill, do you know what I mean, I can stick a movie on I like sort of doing that but then also I do have that other side to me like you do.

35:52It just doesn't happen as quick. No, but I think even when you say you love to chill, you love to watch movies and stuff, but I've been to the cinema. We go to the cinema quite a lot together. It's something that we like to do. You're analysing everything. Yeah. You're thinking, oh, what he's wearing looks sick. I do pull a lot of inspiration from movies, so I do get that from it, But I do also just like eating snacks and watching movies. What are your favorite snacks? I'd say minstrels. Minstrels. My guilty pleasure is minstrels, yeah. Have you seen the cinema that we go to? They always say, when you get the popcorn, they always say, do you want some minstrels or M &Ms on the top of your popcorn?

36:35On the top of it, yeah. Yeah, I've never done it. That's a bit wild. I mean, mixing the popcorn, I think, sweet and salty, yeah. you were saying like when you go to the cinemas in LA because obviously you go over quite a lot, George has moved over there so you probably go over like two, three times a year, you said that the cinemas you can order like food and stuff yeah they've got one there in Beverly Hills called Ipix and you can order like Wagyu burgers to the seat, they've just got a little button that you can press, I think the UK are, there's like every man cinema picking up to it, yeah there is every man um but yeah just that that's obviously that's obviously like um that blew me away in the beginning because i was like wow you can just order like this level of food to your seat whenever you wanted talking of food very dangerous yeah it is very it is very dangerous um talking of food like like we just mentioned your lifestyle is very much like office based yeah set down for quite a lot of the day um what pieces of pieces of advice would you give to someone that is in that situation because a lot of people that do a nine-to-five like they're not very active throughout the day like how do you stay in shape because like i say like you're in shape you're lifting weights every morning you're um you you do the conditioning pieces with those you run um what what are the kind of things that you just like simple things that you like to do day to day to stay in shape um i think if we're talking food first like nutrition wise i think um i just i just eat clean and stick to that because i sort of know that where the parameters lie of like um so i want to look a certain way you know i don't want to like just let my off go it's important especially like if you if you're up in a clothing brand exactly yeah if you're going to be walking around like you are kind of like a walking model yeah when you you go into these events um people are looking at you yeah and people looking at the clothes and if you're a bit out of shape them clothes don't look as good that's good yeah they don't drop as well it's definitely a bit of that and then it's definitely a bit of just like doing it to feel good as well um like mentally i think it it really like clears your head um but yeah i sort of know what i can eat now over times like you give me you know so many um plans and stuff like that and i've kind of worked out like a baseline for like right if i train every day in the morning for an hour um and get that right also with eating clean i'll just maintain this physique which i'm really happy with um and like you've got good numbers like your bench it's around 120 kg george i don't i don't know is it 125 kg remember when we had this well to be fair he can yeah he's definitely stronger than me on bench just for reference i did a youtube video probably like a year ago now and probably a little bit over a year ago.

39:53And on it, we took the piss out of George. And then I asked you what were your numbers in bench? And you said 125. And George was like, I've not seen Mike being 125. Yeah, I think he challenged me, didn't he? Yeah, he challenged you. And you came into the gym, you failed it. And then I think you tried it every single day for about six weeks. You was taking your creatine, you was bulking, yeah also get it and then finally you go and get it but uh yeah it was that was a journey man i think anything after anything after like 110 is no joke is it yeah we're not talking pounds talking kg yeah yeah yeah um yeah i remember like because you've got to work up to it you can't just obviously go in stack the bar up and and sort of like rip your rip your arms out the socket it's like you've got to work up to it.

40:46And it was like, it's like balancing that, like how do you not get, you know, so fatigued before you attempt that sort of your max, your max lift. And I didn't want to, and then like, yeah, like on that max one, it's like you only get like one or two chances, don't you? To get that before you just sort of like - It's so funny though. You were so determined, like Adamant, that you can do it. And we'd spend like half an hour building up in the morning for like them couple of weeks. Every single morning we'd spend like half the session watching Mike build up to this set. Everyone would video on every set just in case he gets it.

41:25I think even the camera turning on just made it like even, I think that even added like five kg of pressure. Yeah, I remember we got that desperate once. We swapped out the bar from like the 20 kg bar. Do you think he'll know if the thickness of the bar slot sort of like slightly, can you see it from this angle? because like the female bar is 15 kg so we used uh the smaller bar tried everything man tried everything but uh finally we got it yeah um i think it was like six weeks later or something but uh no my point there was like you're lifting good numbers in the gym like um is the and you said that you like to eat clean i see you like at lunch sometimes and you just literally walk over to max and spencer's sometimes you'll come back with just like packets of cooked chicken you'll have rice you'll have some greens and then you just like throw it together even though like you're almost meal prepping but like not doing it in advance yeah yeah yeah um i think it just like there's obviously there's obviously like a choice isn't there every time you do that you can either choose the right thing or you could choose something that might make you feel a bit better in that moment and then you might regret it later on so like yeah a burger for example exactly yeah like m'donald's yeah yeah yeah do you know we have like a lot of options on on middlebrook and it could go sort of like one or two ways but i think just just from um listening to like the advice you've given me and over the years eating clean it's like you realize that that thing tastes you know, the bad option tastes better in the moment, but, you know, like 20, 30 minutes after, you start feeling a bit shit, and then you get groggy, and then you almost like want to nap, you know?

43:17So, like, to me, I'd rather eat clean. I think I'm just so used to it now that, like, I do like it. Like, it tastes really good to me. I have sort of, like, no issues, no cravings for, like, bad stuff anymore i think it's weird in it like when you the more you eat healthily and the more whole food you eat the nicer it tastes yeah well don't get me wrong like at night i'll have i'll have some cereal um yeah so even that cereal yeah i know you're a cereal monster at night but even that like if you think about the science behind that like you're then filling your glycogen stores so in the morning you don't have to eat as much you don't have to worry about stress about eating so you come to the gym and then you can perform in the gym yeah so like even do you know your body just craving cereal at night yeah i have also got a little tip for that as well something that i saw george doing um and he puts he puts his cereal in a cup okay are you still adding like milk to it yeah yeah he still adds milk to it but i saw that and then i was asking him like why why he does that and he said it obviously cuts down the amount yeah you know instead of a bowl it's like in a cup so you have a cup of cereal yeah yeah so you sort of get that like satisfaction from it but you've not had like double or triple the amount which I thought was a good tactic.

44:41What's your go to cereal?

44:46I mean if we're being really bad M &S triple chocolate crunch I would say I've heard that you actually I don't know why I know so much about this but I've heard that you like to mix cereals yeah sometimes three so you have three different cereals yeah because i try and what we're going what's the optimal formula well i'll try and get some sort of benefit out of it so i'll get some sort of like protein granola style in you know in the mix and then i'll do the triple trachy crunch and then i'll mix that with potentially some cornflakes or some sort of like wheat based one. Some bland. Yeah, yeah.

45:27Bland one just to make the others taste even better. But I have got into Greek yogurt as well instead. Ah, right. So instead of like having cereal, you'll have Greek yogurt with granola? With granola, yeah. So it's... A lot more protein in that, yeah. Yeah. No, no. Which I prefer just as much, you know. Yeah, it's good. I don't know what's worse for you when you start adding all the honey and... Oh, I don't know. i think the greek yogurt is still probably a little bit healthier yeah but uh yeah nice evening snack that um but yeah so uh moving on uh like you say is there anything like sticking on the kind of subject of like performing throughout the day like is there any tips that you like to give like do you focus on your water intake do you focus on like anything else that like just keeps you being able to work every day, like 20 bottles a day?

46:23Yeah, definitely. I always carry like a large water bottle with me, which I'll mix with salts, mainly cadence. Just because I've realized like, you know, where if you sort of like have discipline in drinking water, you won't get the headaches. Whereas like I never really knew that like, you know, years ago. I always used to neglect it and just sort of drink coffee and realize like, well, I've got such a bad headache. And then once I started like drinking salts and just being on top of the water situation, it just like removed that. And I was able to like think a lot more clearly throughout the day as well.

47:15So I'd definitely say like, keeping some sort of like large bottle of water near you and and just being on top of that really helps i know that's like really basic but um yeah it's surprising how much it helps yeah no interesting right i want to move on to kind of fun stuff because every single morning we chat about some crazy stuff you are always into kind of like the the craziest scandals whether it's scandals whether it's like conspiracy theories stuff like that like what is mike outside of work and outside of like fitness like what what are you into uh aliens you do a lot of digging like you are pretty obsessed as well power washing well jet wash your drive yesterday yeah i want to take you like five hours yeah i was listening to a lot of your podcasts actually whilst i was doing that i love that because that that is literally just sums up george's explanation of you being yeah the poorest richest guy you know it's like you don't need to power wash your drive but you spend five hours doing it just annoying me you know like when you see something and it annoys you and you need to get it done but then once you start because i'm a bit of a perfectionist i'm like trying to make sure that square tile is exactly done in the right way and every single time next minute you know there's five hours i've gone by and i'll tell you what it looked good though afterwards thank you you spent your your your easter weekend jet washing your drive yeah love it love it so yeah what what like the other things that you like to kind of research do in your spare time i know you like um obviously you this still is kind of tied to work but like you you like to draw right yeah i like to draw um i've got into like painting a lot um what the kind of things that you painted uh the first thing that i started painting was a guitar um tim oh is this the one that got put in the store he yeah he signed me up to to to do this thing called the, it was like the Manchester trail where musicians donated guitars for you to like draw on or paint on or whatever.

49:21And then they displayed them around Manchester. So that kind of like forced me into like picking up the paintbrush and which is something that I've not done since school. Cause everything obviously in represent that I've been doing has been very digital. You still like draw on the iPad though, don't you? So you draw on the iPod, it goes onto the screen and then it eventually goes onto a t-shirt. I'd say like, yeah, when I got the iPad was the first time like picking up a pen again instead of just doing everything with a mouse like digitally. And even though like there's that sense of reward when a design comes back from a factory and you see it on a t-shirt but there's obviously like a time there where you have to wait.

50:12It's like you send that design off in an email and then hope that it comes back looking good. Whereas like with the painting and stuff, it's like it's instant. It's like you can sort of see that thing as you're doing it and take a step back and go, wow, like that object is there in the room. and I think as well because it's like like a a one of one it just makes it like a little bit cooler but it's something that like I've I've really enjoyed like like it's a different sort of like gratification just because it's so hands on and you'll spend like you'll spend days sometimes doing like a drawing It's not like an hour piece, is it?

51:09It's kind of like a big canvas. Yeah, yeah. It's nice not looking at a screen as well. But yeah, I wanted to do a canvas after that. So I decided to just buy the biggest canvas that I could and just throw myself straight into it.

51:30And that was very daunting. I feel like, you know, just mixing paint is a skill in itself. I never even thought about that. Getting the right consistency for it, you know, to sort of like flow on the canvas is an art in itself. And still now, like, I just step up to it and realise I know nothing about it every time I do it and hope for the best. Well, some of the artwork that you've done when I've been around, it looks pretty sick. I appreciate that. Anything else that you're kind of interested in? Let's touch on the alien stuff. Yeah. Because you do come in every morning, you're like, did you see this?

52:11Sighting, did you see this? Did you see this documentary? You're a huge fan of Bob Lazar? Yeah, yeah. It's funny, actually, he just, he went on Joe Rogan again, like last night. So I was watching that last night. But I don't know, man. I don't know where I stand on it. I still kind of, I don't know if I'm like, if I'm full on believe it or what it actually is. You know, is it actually aliens? Is it US tech? You know, like I'm not, I'm still on the fence about it, but I do enjoy it because it is like a good story. What do you think aliens look like? do you think they look like Paul for example yeah I do actually yeah because I find it fascinating that like you know if you asked 10 people could they draw you an alien they probably will draw that ah and you think that yeah throughout like time that's what an alien's like come to it sort of could be like you know the biggest unkept secret there is like that is actually how it looks and then I've also got this like well not me but I know like loads of people have said it but it's like is that the evolution of humans like is that where we go well they say that because they've got like huge heads small bodies because they don't use the bodies as much yeah there's like if you're in you know if you've developed like sort of like anti-gravity you won't need to there's no need for lifting anything shit so like are you saying like in the future, gyms going out the window, there's no need for a gym, there's no need to run, you just need a big head?

54:04I don't know, man. Maybe. Big head and a big brain. Yeah, I mean... That's where you see AI going. If you do get a computer chip inside your brain or whatever, you won't need to work out. Yeah, that might be why they're saying the mouths are so small because there's actually no need for a mouth anymore because they can just teleport. But I find it interesting, right, Like if you cross sort of like a monkey or a gorilla with the stereotypical Paul alien, what is a 50-50 of that? Us. Exactly. Wow. That's kind of interesting to me. But yeah, I don't know how I feel. I'm not necessarily like into the whole alien thing.

54:50I just think obviously what's being released from the Pentagon with like these UFOs that have like a different propulsion system is like super interesting because, you know, I find it mad how we haven't moved on in terms of like our own like aviation methods. So like, you know, how, like a Boeing jet, for example, when you travel anywhere still hasn't really evolved since what would you say it's the the Concorde they're talking about bringing some of them back but that was the fastest ever played yeah yeah so I don't know if anything like commercial playing yeah yeah and it's still not been beaten yeah obviously there was a couple of problems with that with like breaking the sound barrier and stuff like that for like noise but yeah but the evolution in that has not really been apart from Elon Musk I think Elon Musk is like do you think he's an alien?

55:53Like if there was anyone on the planet that you thought of, if aliens like are within us, I feel like he'd probably, in my opinion, he'd probably be like the closest person to an alien. Yeah. I don't know if he's an alien. I think he's definitely like got some sort of like that neural link thing maybe installed in his head already. That's why he looks like the way he does before he answers a question. He sort of like pauses and it's like something, is there something loading there? you know, and then he'll talk about it and then he'll like think again. Kind of like the same amount of time chat GPT.

56:29Exactly, yeah. Takes to reply. When you ask it a question, it's kind of like a couple of seconds and then it just spurts it all out. Yeah. Or he could just be a genius. He probably is a genius. Yeah. Do you think anyone else, if you could bet on anyone being an alien in the planet, or on the planet, should I say? I don't know. It could be like, you know, like who's controlling the presidents or like who's controlling the world. So you're saying like Donald Trump or do you think someone, an alien controlling Donald Trump? Yeah, essentially. That's a bit wild though. And do you think, what about flying saucers like UFOs?

57:12Yeah, I think, um, and why are all the sightings seeming to be, documented and reported in the US? Because I think the US obviously have the best facilities to deal with that situation. So I think if anything happens around the world, it will be the US that will fly there and sort of like... Or like Area 51, for example. Why has there been the most sightings in the world around Area 51? Because I think, say for example, if they do recover something, it probably would be tested around there. So people would see weird things going on there. Or there could be nothing. It could just be the US have developed a completely new form of propulsion.

58:02And that's what you're seeing. And it might look like a disc. Or it could just be like a huge marketing tool because like near Area 51 or just on the strip from LA to Vegas, there's so much alien jerky. It's very, yeah. There's aliens in every, like if you go to Barstow, which is probably like one of the main towns in between LA and Vegas, there's just shops and all it sells is like alien stuff. Yeah, yeah. So it's alien teddies, alien jerky, like beef jerky. You definitely realise there's a tourism, sort of like, you know, there's a tourist attraction there for that thing and everyone's sort of making money off the aliens.

58:43Yeah. So it's interesting. Do you think that's why they keep doing these sightings, to keep everyone, like, hooked on the alien thing? Or do you think it's real? I was hoping that we would see one when we did Speed Project. No, we didn't, did we? We didn't. And you guys were, like, running near to that when you did Powerlines. yeah I think the closest alien we saw was probably Tom yeah Tom was slowly turning into an alien but I think we all were with the lack of sleep that we had and just how garrillion that was that was a good time you was our support crew and I don't think we could have done it without you to be fair when we do them crazy challenges like let's say running from state to state I think it was 340 miles I think we had to run probably a little bit further because we got lost but you as our support crew you was Mick the RV driver that was it and you were playing tunes I remember just trying to keep the vibes man it was ACDC, Guns N' Roses at the side of the slots we were running and when you're two days into a run and you're sleep deprived that's what you need so it was sick I remember we drove to a spot where it's like the the drivers potentially could have got a rest whilst you guys cut through power lines and then we'd sort of like meet you towards either end but I remember getting a call that the that it it hadn't gone to plan and one of the trucks got stuck yeah one of the trucks got stuck in the sand yeah so we kind of like right how do we you know what do we do we've not got a spare tyre so I remember where we were parked There was like a gas station there.

1:00:32And we walked in and asked if he knew anyone that could potentially tow a truck out of a really bad situation and replace the wheel. And there was a guy there that was up for it. What was his name? Pancho. Pancho, yeah. Shout out Pancho. He kind of like saved the day really, didn't he? I think he charged a fortune as well, so he got his money's worth. Yeah, he did actually. But we were willing to pay anything at that point. I mean, for me, that was like the, that was where the vibes were the toughest. I think that was, it was getting quite hairy, weren't it? Like the morale was down. You guys had realized there was an extra, what was it?

1:01:14However many miles. We'd picked the power lines, which originally it was meant to save 40 miles. Yeah. But we got stuck on the power lines and then halfway through the power lines, we got stuck on like the first bit, halfway through the power lines there was a main road yeah and the main road wasn't going anywhere toward like vegas it was kind of um kind of perpendicular and this was actually the death valley road but this is where like obviously we got the the rv sorry we got the truck stuck then one of our tires broke on the other car yeah so so we got to that road we met you there and we had to go on Death Valley, on the Death Valley road, which took us an extra, I think, 80 miles.

1:02:02So we didn't even get the value for going on power lines and getting a shorter route. We actually had to do power lines, which slowed us down massively. And then we just had to go on this road because we couldn't go, we couldn't continue on the power lines because both our cars had broke. We only had an RV. So we had to go on the main road, run on the main road. I was like, I don't know the date of those cheaps as well. Oh, yeah. When we saw you guys, I was thinking, oh, my God, like, number plate hanging off, tire completely gone. They were just rentals. And I think this is what I love about, like, rep.

1:02:37Like, everything was just, like, we were just like, fuck it. There was no, like, agreements anyone signed or anything, literally. We just all flew out there and we were like, let's just take part. I don't think I was even meant to be involved in it. And then I sort of, like I said to Holly, when you guys were doing the video of the run through, I was like, this is a big deal. Like we need to make sure we do this. Yeah, you was there, but like you weren't insured on any cars or anything. I don't know if you can put that in, but like we just kind of like raw dogged it, every part of it. I went and hired one of the trucks and then I went back to try and hire another one.

1:03:11I couldn't hire two trucks from Enterprise. They were like, nah, you can only hire one at the time because like how are you meant to drive two? And we stupidly didn't see there was no badge on the side that said 4x4. Yeah, the second one. So I think Emily had the second one. So anyway, we took these two cars back. They were absolutely trashed. And we took them back to Enterprise and they were just like, yeah, yeah, sweet. Yeah, yeah. They weren't bothered, were they? No. At all. It was the craziest thing ever. That's the good thing about America. They're just like, ah, Americans are just happy all the time, I feel like.

1:03:42But no, like I say, that's when we need people like you the most, I think. like the morale and like well i think it was all relying on john and john didn't even have a driving license did he so oh yeah i think john was driving a truck without a driving license yeah we sort of like he was doing his driving lessons yeah like it was yeah to be fair he'd learn how to drive on that trip so you taught him that you were teaching him how to drive you're like yeah i just remember like press the gas the the best moment for me was um i think it was like shortly after that moment where it was like you guys just got told there was an extra however many miles onto the journey and it was like right okay jesus christ i think when it when it came light and we dipped into that valley and the sun was up and you saw how like beautiful that was and you had like i don't know was it kid rock blasting on the uh in the rv yeah it did the morale just like shot up and i was like wow this is unbelievable it's mad and then we we finished that evening so so that was like the the morning beautiful morning yeah yeah everyone's still fucked though but we finished that evening in vegas i think we came eighth which wasn't bad considering like how many things have gone wrong i mean i thought we were first or i think we were first for for the first bit and then then i think the people that won there were actually like six professional pro runners like 209 marathon runners from oregon yeah yeah so like they're all like nike athletes you guys were going like we were head to head with like um an asian team as well weren't we yeah yeah that was same yeah that was back and forth and that was crazy and then uh and then we're finishing vegas and we end up having a nice meal to be fair george as as george is can never kind of like live in the moment so he was like yeah i'm going i'm driving straight back to la which is the craziest thing ever what is it like three and a half hours he'd had no sleep for two days and He was like, yeah, I'm driving back.

1:05:42I want to stay in my own bed. I need to get up tomorrow. I need to work tomorrow. But we was like, well, we need to celebrate. We're here. We had the rooms. Yeah. Yeah. George wasn't celebrating that win, was he? No, he wasn't celebrating that. He wanted his own bed. Yeah. That's just George. But anyway, we went for a nice meal in one of the casino resort things, wherever we stay in the hotels. And then we went to the casino. Yeah. How was that? Can we talk about that? Yeah, of course. I mean, I'm not a gambler. and that was like the first time. This was like the first time, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah.

1:06:15And I think we chose roulette. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Did you even know how to play roulette before this? No. Probably the easiest game you can play though. It's sort of like... Red or black or red or black. Yeah, yeah. I think we either played like one round or two rounds. This alludes to it as well. This is so funny because it alludes to what George keeps saying about you. Yeah. you was playing with like the minimum minimum bet oh yeah you was like yeah yeah five pounds and like yeah yeah i think it was five pound minimum bet yeah you was like playing with i wanted bro i wanted to leave on a high we definitely did that i think you were what did you end up like coming out with uh well the minimum bet was like 100 i think 100 was it i thought it was like five pound was it no no it was 100 yeah um because i remember the cash machines because i drew that out of the cash machine.

1:07:10All I wanted to do was win and walk away on a high. So I doubled my money and then... Yeah, so you won$100 and then that was the best night of Mike's life. Yeah, but I don't know how you even did that. I don't know how you stayed awake after that. After so many miles and the meal and then going... Well, I think the oxygen in the... Apparently it's filled with oxygen. Yeah, yeah. The gambling in resorts but yeah we just wanted to to watch you on that table yeah it's funny no it was good fun um but yeah man we we left vegas with a win yeah which was the most important and then on the way back i remember driving back jack from rep was driving like halfway and then he was like ah i can't drive anymore oh yeah he didn't feel well did he didn't feel well so we stopped off at bar store grabbed some food and then mike you took over the driver's seat yeah i think he was driving and he was like uh oh can we can we listen to this podcast and it was the bob lazar podcast like the original one oh yeah yeah and i remember speaking to jack after jack was in the back for some reason the speakers only worked in the back so for us to listen to it in the front we had to put it on full blast yeah it was like minuscule volume yeah for us so we put it so jack was just laying down turns out he had norovirus he was throwing up um left right and center listening to this alien conspiracy podcast and we were like just loving life in the front and he was having the worst time ever.

1:08:43He said that he didn't have like the balls or guts just to say, like, can you turn that off? Yeah, yeah. I don't think he could speak at that point. He was, but we didn't know, did we? We just thought, you know, is he like... I think there was what? There was 15 of us, including all the runners and the support crew and everything. And I think like 12 people got sick, like severely sick. he was one of them people yeah i think it was only me emily and john that didn't get sick yeah everyone else got like horrendously sick like for like people were missing the flight like it was oh it was crazy it was wild and how quick it started yeah it was just like good job it didn't happen on the well to be fair it did happen on the run with uh montana montana yeah she she was the who introduced norovirus to the group there you go is that is that is how you're blaming potentially um but yeah it probably took like a a few days for it to set in but then we just slowly started like dropping like dominoes didn't we we were just yeah i mean i think jack was in such a bad way that he ended up just like going into the house and i remember cleaning out the back of the van so i probably got it then and then when i'd come into the house i was like yeah i don't feel too good i'm just sick instantly like yeah wild how quick it it came on um yeah good times though do you think would you like to do something like that again or maybe like one day like be involved in something like that like when i say involved like involved more like be one of the runners or 100 yeah that that that's like to me one of the best memories i've had so fun in it yeah yeah just because you build that that team spirit don't you when doing it anyway though like the times that you remember and like the most memorable times when like there is there involves like a little bit of suffering together and you overcome like a problem together definitely it's like that teamwork yeah it's like the the most testing times are the times that you never forget yeah no it was it was like say a memory that i'll never forget i'm sick yeah sticking on like conspiracy theories and i i want to get all this out of you because like i say we talk about it every morning yep um how what are the chances that we're living in a simulation

1:11:08do you believe in that or do you think it's bullshit i don't know I mean it's like anything's possible isn't it you know when you look at the fact that we're apparently you know some monkeys on a rock spinning around thousands of times per second floating in the middle of space it's like and everything's like a line for life to exist just on our planet and for some reason it's not on any other planet that we know of and the circumstances are like perfect ratio of oxygen to carbon dioxide to nitrogen in the air. It's crazy. And then it's like, why are we the species that has evolved so quick and manipulated our environment?

1:11:57Oh, that's a good one. What about like a lot of people say it's potentially due to the discovery of like mushrooms and like magic mushrooms and stuff like that. Do you like back in the day? Oh yeah, yeah. There's that theory, is it called like the stoned ape theory, where there was a group of sort of like primates in Africa that developed a mushroom. Well, no, they found a mushroom, and then they started having like thoughts when they ingested this mushroom, which led to the invention of fire, I think. Yeah, like evolved basically communication. They could communicate better. They could, yeah, before this, they couldn't probably speak.

1:12:39Yeah, wild. yeah and then they they you know they get more creative because that's what apparently one thing i think is interesting as well is the whole thing with the pyramids okay i think that's like super interesting what controversial stuff you're gonna say just like not even controversial you know these like scans of the pyramid that they've they've found that underneath the pyramid there's like um columns that go down like however many hundreds of feet down and then they've done scans of like there's a labyrinth near it where there's like a solid um metal object that's like tic-tac shaped 40 meters in one of these labyrinths um that would be a super cool link if because like Bob Lazar the alien guy the one he worked on he said it was from an archaeological dig and if there's one of them in there I always think imagine if that's what the Egyptians found or had and that was like you know that was able to cause them to build such structures like the pyramids and stuff do you believe in like it could be a wild one advanced civilizations like you know that have been lost in time yeah graham hancock obviously is the guy that like is coming up with this theory yeah more than anyone else but like the the fact that like everyone across the world kind of believes along the same lines of there is a creator there is like if you look at like whether you're in mexico whether you're in europe whether you're in asia oh yeah there's like similar builds similar builds similar like myan philosophies myan temples so the pyramids even like religions stuff like that like it's yeah i definitely think that we were a lot more advanced than what what we're made out to believe like you know it was like do you think there was once a civilization that was more advanced than ours i think so yeah but But I think just like in a different way.

1:14:52Like I think we went down sort of like the combustion engine route, which led into what we've got now. But I think what if there was something totally different? Yeah. That we haven't thought of yet. Yeah. But I just, I still - Is that how you think that they made the pyramids? Potentially, yeah. Like there could be some mad way of moving something with like sound. Because right now is if, I don't know if this is true or not, but I hear this a lot, that is physically impossible for anyone, even like with today's technology. To replicate the pyramids, yeah. To replicate the pyramids. Even, you know, I've read that the, and it's weird because like there's two parts of Egypt.

1:15:30I think there's one like the old, there's like the old Egypt and then the newer Egypt, but even, sorry, ancient Egypt. Even in ancient Egypt, they found in the tombs that these vases, have you seen these vases? that are like, they're so precise and so small that they have no idea how they were made. Like they've got like tiny little handles on each side and the symmetry in them is like absolutely perfect. And even though those could not be replicated today, which I just find mental. That is crazy. What about like the, like in the Amazon, apparently there's like lost cities and stuff like that.

1:16:19Yeah. They're doing like scans of the Amazon, aren't they? And finding like civilizations there as well. Because it isn't not like a stupid fact, like say for example, Manchester became like, you know, I don't know, humans just disappeared. Like the city of Manchester, like would like disappear within like a couple of thousand years or something like that. Yeah. like just become overgrown and everything like you wouldn't be able to tell it the city there yeah anymore i know there's like um a really interesting thing isn't there like how how are we going to record history when things deteriorate so fast you know like if everything's on hard drives hard drives deteriorate yeah i don't know i think you're a good person to ask where do you think what do you think life will be like in say 20 years from now because things are moving so fast like even if we think about what's happened this year yeah yeah like it's it's as if it's unbelievable that the amount of things that have happened yeah like we're only in april yeah and there's there's crazy stuff happening across the world like you can't keep up with the news no no i think it's i think it's obviously the advancement in ai like with claude and all that sort of stuff like chat GPT, you know, it's becoming so advanced that it's like making the next version of itself.

1:17:46And I think, you know, where's that ultimately going to lead? Are we eventually going to have something that the world is governed by AI just because that is like a safer option than say, for example, like the US and Iran war now, like, you know. Yeah. Is it safer just to have for it? Yeah. Yeah, like, is it safer just to have, I mean, that does sound like the Terminator though. So let's go with that. Yeah, let's go with that. So AI has taken over. AI has taken over. If you could place your bets now, 20 years down the line, AI is in government. Yeah. It might be now, to be fair. We'd never know.

1:18:27You never know. Yeah. And then... Where do you think, like, where do you see, like, content going, the business going, so, like, represent? Where do you see that? or your job role in 20 years time because your aim yeah is to create a legacy with this brand yeah and you want this brand to be lasting way longer than you do yeah is that is that correct would you say that yeah you want you want this to be a hundred year brand you want it to be kind of legacy brand yeah yeah a legacy brand so like where do you see this brand in like 20 years like what do you think will be the in thing what do you think i don't know like you say it's true it's hard to think about 18 months down the line yeah but like what do you think will be kind of like the you never know in in 20 years time we might discover aliens do people even wear clothes anymore they wearing like all those things i don't know it's gonna be tough i think if it carries on sort of like let's say we remove all that stuff and it carries on the way it is the way it is I just think I'd like to progress it in the way that it's progressed over time.

1:19:40Like it's not been an overnight success. Yeah. It's a gradual progression. So I'd just like to see a gradual progression of what we're doing now. And being true to yourself. I think that's the main thing. Like not just giving into what's the in thing. Yeah. I think that, like you said, that's what you do better than anything. Like the collabs that you're doing, like I've never seen before collabs. like you've just done one with Mel's diner. Yeah. Like Mel's diner is this diner on Sunset Boulevard for people that don't know in LA. It's like so famous and so cool. You, and it means so much to you.

1:20:16Like every time you're in LA, every morning you go to Mel's diner for breakfast. Yeah. And then you've done a collab with them. Like that's just, there's meaning behind everything. Yeah. That like, that just stays true to us. I mean, you could, you know, it's something we've always done. George with 247, like just bringing that element into the brand is because he was living that life. Like those are the things that when we've been to LA, we've been down the strip. Those are the places that we visit. These are the places that we actually go to, like the Viper Room, you know, the rock clubs. Like it comes from a genuine place.

1:20:55Yeah, like it's sick to see. Like I remember the last time I was in LA and like you and Holly will just go and have a night out in one of the rock clubs. Yeah, yeah. and you'll just absolutely love life and like it's so cool to see it and then like later down the line you're doing a club and it's like so like just it's real original to you and it's real it's real and I think look it helps if you can time it where you get a bit of the trend as well like I'm not saying you know we're like completely oblivious to to trends but I don't know there's something way cooler about it being real and about that you know it linking with the life that you live yeah i i have a feeling that what you're talking about there is going to become more and more like sought after like people are going to want that because as ai advances like even you see instagram now half the videos that you watch on instagram are created by ai yeah you don't know what's real or not what's fake you don't know so i think people are gonna like almost crave things made by humans like human made things are gonna be like the in thing yeah yeah because they're gonna be become reduced and they're gonna be quite rare in the future potentially yeah so like the the way that you go about stuff like like say every graphic that is on a t-shirt is hand-drawn yeah i remember the the piece that you did um it's actually my favorite hoodie it's a white hoodie and it was like all your drawings that you'd done and you'd made it from scratch.

1:22:30Yeah, yeah. I think you even got your girlfriend on there. Yeah. Is it your girlfriend with the devil? Yeah. On the bottom of the... There's one of like my niece's drawings on there. She's only like four years old. Yeah. A little smiley face of her, like a drawing of George on there. It's a cool piece, yeah. It means something to you. It's a cool piece, yeah. And I think that's what's cool about it. And like you say, I think they're the things that are going to shine through a bit more after people. Well, hopefully the painting will come more into that as well. Yeah. Well, have you already started replicating the paintings on the T-shirts?

1:23:15You mean like a takedown of a painting on a T-shirt? Yeah. So obviously you've been drawing on canvases in your house. Yeah, not yet. I mean, I have had that idea. I think that would be super cool to see it, like on a rail displayed, like underneath the painting. Because it's sort of like how artists generally like do a takedown of a painting. They'll do a print and they might sell like 50 prints or like a limited amount of prints, but it would be a way how someone could get a piece of that painting. This might be a bit of an awkward question to answer. Oh yeah, I love that. but obviously you've lived in horwich now and been close to the hq all your life and george has recently moved probably two years ago now to la to try and expand the business on the us front and try and break america as it seems do you ever consider joining him obviously you go over quite a lot you see la you see that it's sunny all the time that's where originally you said that's where you got your inspiration from it could drive the business so much more potentially if you get more inspiration and if you go and join your brother over there yeah or do you feel like you need to stay here to be kind of like boots on the ground with your team like say there's 100 people over here you've got an office over here you've got an office over there yep what is that kind of looking like and where do you potentially see yourself living and it might not even be la or horwich it might be somewhere else yeah i think so in the beginning i think he's he's been there now nearly three years actually so that's crazy it doesn't seem like that so I've kind of been watching you know his life his stories whatever for best part of like three years whilst remaining here because the thought of us both moving there straight after that investment was a bit like daunting it's kind of like we've got so so many staff here could send kind of like the wrong message to kind of like the the team here it'd be like oh you you've both took on that investment and then just cleared off cleared off you chill out and you surf and you just basically live on the beach yeah yeah and that's what you're doing over there in la which is completely the opposite of what the reality is like when we go over like george is working non-stop yeah and it's actually he's almost working like harder than he was when he was over here because now he's got to get up and he's got to be on the uk time zone definitely so he's up every single morning he's on his first meeting at 4am yeah he's then which is 12 here so it's 12 midday so he's already behind as soon as he wakes up he's he's got a million emails that he's got to reply to he's on meetings yeah it's tough waking up and going straight into them calls because they're like you know the first one will be like an hour two hours long and you sat on a laptop, not in the room physically with people.

1:26:33And you've not had that like warm up time to get into that. But yeah, to answer your question, yeah, it's been about three years now. And we've got such amazing people in the business that I could move over there and know that, you know, there's no worries here. Just because we've got an amazing team, leadership team is absolutely on it. They're on everything. I'd be, you know, I wouldn't really be worried about that anymore. The only thing for me is it would obviously suck missing, like, your family, like, not seeing your family. as much um but i definitely i definitely have thought about it and i think it would definitely help grow the us so that could potentially be my next move um but i see myself i see i see it more as like a hybrid like um because obviously you know we draw so much inspiration from there and here.

1:27:54I kind of see it like that. Like, I'm maybe half the year there, half the year here. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. The team is so good here though. Like, you walk into the office, everyone's buzzing. When you are away, you've just been away for a month in LA and it doesn't, well, I'd say it doesn't seem different. It definitely is different because I see you every day when I'm here. I miss you when, like, you're not in the gym and stuff like that um maybe the culture potentially is a little bit different when you're not here yeah i think that's just is gonna be like if you have the founder walking around of any business like yeah people are gonna act different yeah whether you're there or whether you're not there like yeah it's gonna be different but um no i see it as kind of like a positive moment or anything i don't think anyone could like uh especially when they know how hard you work and that's not going to change like say it's almost like when i when i go over there and watch george and witness kind of like team working over there it's almost like you've got that startup mentality again that's what it's like the feeling in the office is like going back to how it was yeah whereas now like 100 people working here like yes it's incredible it's full on still but over there there's just like 10 to 15 people you go in doing campaign shoots like like you might decide you're going doing a campaign shoot tomorrow and go and do it like in the middle of the desert and like it's just kind of like that that unorganized chaos yeah which is probably what you probably reminisce sometimes i don't know do you ever like look back and think oh like you know 10 years ago like when we were struggling it was kind of like the good old times yeah I mean um we're when as soon as you land and you see the schedule it's definitely like you have that feeling of like right we're on a mission to grow the US like boots on the ground get after it you know for any business owner do you think that's like the mentality that you need to have even when you become successful because I still see that here that let's say every single day everyone's at it everyone's like there's no stepping off the gas like it's not like you hit 100 million and in revenue and then you was like ah we'll just chill out now it's kind of let's push more let's push more and like spenny's a great leader in that so the ceo paul spencer like every single like team meeting we had like a monthly uh represent talk and like he's motivating us to go harder push more um it's kind of like inspiring like would you say that's like the key to kind of keeping growing uh yeah i'd say it's a it's an essential part of it yeah like keeping everybody in that spirit of this is the mission this is kind of what we're here to do you know like it definitely it definitely helps having someone like that he's amazing at it um like he's got so much charisma probably the most charisma i've ever seen in a in a human most charisma and great stories great oh he's got stories and jokes he's a storyteller wow yeah and um yeah he burns he burns the candle at both ends as well i'm not sure how he still does it but he does work hard play hard he'll always out party you yeah it's great it's great right i want to finish with kind of like some quick fire questions um first one i always like to do this because i'm obsessed with food but what's your go-to like death row meal is that a quick fire question death row just like what like if you was like literally on in that electric chair right now yeah you're kind of like strapped to an electric chair.

1:31:54Yeah. You've got an hour until we're going to turn it on. Yeah. I'm going to order you something off like Deliveroo or I'll cook you something or like we've got a Michelin star chef in the back. Yeah. He's going to cook you something up. What are you having? Anything you want. Anything. Yeah. I think it's going to have to be an Air One hot plate, bro. No, that's so LA. That's Air One. Basically, Air One. I don't know why you guys are obsessed with it but it's basically just a posh canteen that's what it is it's canteen food yeah it's a super like it's bougie canteen yeah immaculate supermarket in it yeah it's like m &s but like three levels up yeah and it's just a canteen like don't get me wrong the food's nice yeah but you having that over like a a nicely cooked steak from like a nice steak restaurant or like an Italian I know that you love Indian as well actually you get an Indian takeaway quite a lot don't you yeah here which is not something that really like you don't really see a lot of in LA so that's like another nice thing about coming back here so you're getting an air one plate and what's on this plate Korean short rib Korean short rib what else?

1:33:11what's your sides? I would go buffalo cauliflower absolutely unbelievable bear in mind it's this canteen and i think like uh you literally just get a dish of food like it's like a yeah you get a protein you get two sides and it's like 50 yeah all right it's the most expensive canteen you've ever been to in your life it's so good it is nice don't get me wrong but yeah um and then the other side would probably be rice balls it just shows how simple you are you are you are very simple like you're just like a simple life like i've cracked on the work yeah i've found something there that I love that I can eat and it's my go-to and then yeah.

1:33:51I think that's just answered the previous question of are you going to move to LA? If you're on death row and you're on that chair, it's going to be in LA because you need their one. Yeah, I mean, can I ask you a question? Yeah. If I moved to LA, if me and Holly moved to LA, would that, would you move to LA? well I've said like what you know I always hear you talk about how much you love America not necessarily LA like maybe Texas or I love the American dream I love the fact that it's just this place where everyone believes they can make it and I think I think I believe in like energy yeah and vibes like if you give up good vibes and give up good energy and karma then you're going to receive it yeah and i think americans are just more like that you don't see them complaining as much no they build they build each other up don't they yeah like whereas here don't get me wrong some of it is like bullshit like the the don't believe everything that an american says because like most of the time like they're bullshitting but but the energy and the energy and the charisma and everything like it's just like this place where you can make it yeah yeah and I kind of like love that yeah I also love that like in America you're two hours away from anywhere you want to be whether it's skiing whether it's incredible mountains whether it's altitude whether it's surfing surfing sun like it's all within like you've got everything on one continent and you can drive yeah it's a little micro yeah which for me like the the biggest problem we have like living in the UK is that we can't take dogs on planes yeah but apparently there is an airline that does that you you have found it yeah we found it what's it called like pet air oh so there's barker and then there's pet air wow and i think it's 10 grand yeah to take your dog to america that dog's flying business baby there we go there we go it's it's very expensive so so but that's the only solution whereas like in america like you can just take your dog obviously you guys would have to you know it's there's the family thing as well but But I know the dog situation was huge for you, wasn't it?

1:36:11Yeah, it's basically just the dog thing. Just the dog. Okay, so now with that sort of solved, how do you feel about it? Do you think you'll end up there? I'd love to spend a couple of years there. I don't think I'd move there permanently. I wouldn't like to go, but I'd love to do like a year or two in the States. Yeah, LA or Texas. so i've come to the conclusion that wherever you are in the world it's no good on your own you could be anywhere on the planet you could be in the best location in the world yeah but if you've not got your friends around you and you've not got like a good support network yeah then it's pointless being there yeah you're gonna find it shit yeah so i think with if you move to la obviously the george in la i think it'd have to be somewhere like that but we've also got a good group in in texas as well austin where it's like an amazing community um flagstaff as well i just like the the element that there's like a load of pro runners that i potentially get along with there yeah so and it's only a seven hour drive from la to flagstaff so i could come and see you guys so yeah there's quite a few places where yeah yeah it's the elevation as well so flagstaff this beautiful place where i think it's the fourth sunniest city yeah in the us i think it's got like 340 days of sun you still have your seasons so we were there in january it was minus eight in the morning but it's the only place at minus eight where you can go and run outside and not slip on your ass yeah yeah like over here as soon as it's even like zero degrees you can't go for a run outside because it's so uh the airs like the humidity and like the it's just wet here like we basically live um in rain clouds that's what we live here whereas there it's so dry that you can go running minus eight and it's like beautiful crisp morning um it's still like in forest and like it's it feels so like chilled and like you're in the countryside it's not city town like it's not a big city or anything like that it's just like a little town and it's like where i could see myself kind of like nice being but i know you dabbled in like the whole yellowstone yeah well i I feel like everyone did that.

1:38:33Rancher, kind of. Yeah, everyone listened to or watched Yellowstone and Landman as well. Landman, yeah, yeah. I feel like Landman does the opposite for Texas, though. Yeah. Kind of just makes out like Texas is a shit hole. It's very like dry. Yeah, it's dry. There's just oil rigs and that's all it is, like if you've watched Landman. But like Texas is pretty beautiful. I love Austin. I think Austin's... Austin's cool. I think Austin's my favorite city because there's no bad traffic, really. like it's 10 minutes to get to anywhere yeah whereas la that's what kills me off the traffic yeah i don't know how george lives george lives on the hill it takes him 15 minutes to get down to the bottom and although he'll say oh it's only 10 minutes to everywhere it's not it's like literally i think he's the the office is like three miles away yeah and it takes him 40 minutes i think la has a certain point in the day where if you're not at your destination or you're not doing the thing that you want to be doing that day it's going to become very difficult because you will just be stuck yeah like if you want to go down to the beach it's an hour drive it's an hour drive there an hour drive back if you're living in like west hollywood so if i was to live in la i think it'd have to be like the venice santa monica area nice way close to kind of like the beach yeah um would you contemplate like even further out like malibu if it if it was like beach situation would you would you would you think the traffic is worth the seabue potentially being that close to a beach i'm not gonna lie mike i don't think i could afford malibu but like malibu is like some bougie place in it i don't think i could afford that but you never know let's say that like money wasn't a thing though like would you would you would you prioritize that over being stuck in traffic or would you traffic ruins my day so anywhere where that like i i get road rage more than anyone like these guys will vouch for me over here they've they've seen me drive like i'm not a nice person when there's traffic about i don't know why i've just got no patience like queues or traffic or anything like i'm the person to go out the outside and cut straight in at the end like i'm not no bed um unfortunately i am and i apologize about that but so i i take somewhere where like there's not much traffic so that's why I like Flagstaff there's hardly any cars it's chilled, it's at elevation, there's loads of pro runners there's good gyms there's good places to run, there's nice trails for like walks, there's mountains for like skiing it's kind of ticking off everything the only thing that it's not got is that kind of like network well it has got the network of like pro runners but it's not got the network of like LA, you've got everything it kind of feels like the people are there and like there's stuff going on there doesn't it yeah but i don't know i think i do like horwich it sounds weird because that's like the opposite like horwich is this place where there's not much going on it's pretty quiet but we've got beautiful walks that we can go on we've got rivens and pike um the weather's so shit that there's nothing else to do apart from trained yeah so i feel like that gives me kind of like a bit of advantage yeah see that that's that's where i've had my advantage as well in doing what i've been doing like no distractions no distractions come in get your head down yeah you know used to work all weekend because there's just nothing else to do like do you ever worry about that say if you did move to la like say there's a house party that you could go to every night there's like like say a party scene there's um maybe beach clubs maybe um even just like the sunny weather as a distraction for you to, you can do anything but work potentially.

1:42:20You've got so many distractions. I kind of feel like I've got that out of my system. Yeah. And I actually don't enjoy drinking now. I don't enjoy staying up late and drinking. I know that sounds super boring, but I think the LA thing attracts me more because I could be at a certain event and that could lead somewhere that could like start a new collaboration or you could just meet someone that could, you know, introduce you to someone or like. Yeah, so it's more of like the networking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because every time I've been there, I've always got into a situation where I've been introduced to someone and it started something new, like a new option or a new opportunity for the business.

1:43:03So, yeah. And yeah, just like, I like having options. I like knowing that the options are there. versus not really having the options. It'd be cool if there was somewhere like LA, but in Europe where it was just a little bit closer. Yeah. I don't think there is. I was speaking to this about George. I was like, if you couldn't live in LA, where would you live? Yeah. Well, it has nice weather, but also has that kind of network and kind of like the scene where everything's going on. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah. If anyone has any places, please reach out. Let us know in the comments. Yeah, let us know in the comments, yeah.

1:43:51Right, next question. Favorite workout in the gym? Favorite workout for me is it's going to be an AMRAP. An AMRAP? Yeah. What's in this AMRAP? So as many rounds as possible or as many reps, as many rounds as possible? As many rounds as possible, yeah, or reps. just from sort of like when I first got into the gym, I would watch a lot of Rich Froning's workouts at CrossFit Mayhem. And I liked the idea of coming in, switching your brain off and just grinding through. And you can get everything sort of done. You can get your cardio in there, you can get your lifting in there. Like to me, it would be an unwrap of - We're going to rename this workout Mikey's workout.

1:44:40So it's not rich for any more. You've seen me do quite a few, haven't you? Like a lot. Normally it involves bench. Yeah. Some sort of bench, some sort of back. Pull-ups. Pull-ups. Yeah. Normally weighted. And then like an erg or like a... An erg, yeah. Throw a little bit of... Bike erg or something like that. Yeah, bike erg. Throw some sit-ups in there, maybe a bit of abs. Yeah. And you're just kind of going around. so i think the workout that you're talking about it's like eight bench press eight weighted pull-ups yeah we need a name for this one and then like uh you normally do like 10 calories on the erg and then maybe like you know 10 to 15 sit-ups and you're just going round and round and round like 30 minutes something and then every round say there's three rounds all right each round the weight goes up so you do like 10 minute unwrapped and then you go heavier yeah like reps decrease a little bit so say for example you start off the first one um it's 60 kg on the bench you're doing 10 reps yeah next round eight reps eight reps uh 70 kg yeah then you're doing six reps and so on you do three rounds interesting yeah but to be fair we've done that workout quite a lot and it's a good workout it is yeah sick yeah yeah yeah yeah it's just just one that like you say you can come in the gym take everything off yeah uh it's sufficient as well probably works with kind of like your lifestyle yeah and i just feel like it's a bit more entertaining than um just like bodybuilding you know like three three sets of 10 on everything next one favorite represent outfit um um favorite represent outfit so let's go let's go like tea yeah any kind of jacket or like a hoodie or yeah yeah i'd say currently what i've got on um which is my own things the mh uh hoodie this one's like a little bit shrunken which is kind of nice it's a bit different to what we do so so then that's like crops so the t-shirt showing yeah yeah it's like um like a shrunken fit which is probably for most brands a regular we always do stuff like oversized sized um so there's that and then i've actually got my own tea the mht which is um to my preferred fit over all the years of wearing t-shirts um so like a lighter material uh yeah it's got a hemp in it um so it's like 15 hemp which gives it this like slub texture which kind of makes it feel um like vintage and super soft.

1:47:16So I'd probably say that. And then I would have to say George developed these jeans, which I've not stopped wearing, the GH denim. GH denim. What fit are they? They're relaxed? Yeah. Yeah, they're kind of like a straight leg, more relaxed jean. And then we've got a takedown of that with sort of like a flared opening at the bottom. a bit more cowboy yeah yeah so i'd probably say that oh interesting um mine i think mine's to be fair i just live in 247 to be fair um but i do love these come on real tree sweatpants yeah they look cool what's your favorite 247 piece 247 piece i think you've nailed the hoodies i think that that's one thing that represent like it's kind of like never change is like the original like either owners club hoodie or like uh the 247 hoodie i think it's the best hoodie that you can ever get like there's no hoodie that's better um like you can wash it for me like i'm just a very very simple guy i'll i just want something that looks good doesn't like overly crease like you know so you can just hang it up and you don't need to iron it and stuff like that um it's something that like suits every kind of outfit or whatever so like a uh but then like you can just like wash it and dry it and not worry about it shrinking or anything like that and i think one thing we've represent stuff like it's very hard wearing like yeah it stands stands a test of time yeah like i i've had i remember i think how long ago was it when we went to new york emily we went to new york probably like four or five years ago and i remember getting like a couple of hoodies for that and i still wear them to this day that's five years later yeah and they're still like perfect and it's still like a couple of my favorite hoodies yeah and they still fit absolutely perfect they get washed probably once a week every single week yeah and they're still going strong like that's for me like being a very simple guy um i think a lot of guys like that though like they find something they like and then they stick to that yeah um but i love the the trail shot so the 247 trail shot that's what i race in whenever i do high rocks i love the half tight for running as well like i i chafe when i run i don't know whether it's just like my thighs are a little bit too big for for running but um all my gates off or whatever but uh i kind of chafe so i need kind of like some under layer yeah so i wear the 247 tight normally underneath my shorts or like i said the trail shorts has it built in uh and then uh i think the tanks are just great i think they they just fit they're not like too revealing uh i think they sit just right like on the shoulder yeah i think you've done a kind of like a sick job at that so yeah then for me traditionally as everyone's seen like i'm normally in full black yeah so i love like the kind of like minimal logos i like the big logos on the back yeah like minimal on the front and then yeah like this is one of my favorite tees and it's just literally the the dna 2471 and it's not that single logo i think it's got the tiniest black blacked out logo on the back but that's just got the metal bar on the bottom it's not even got that this one because it's 247 all right yeah so it's not wrap it's 247 so um yeah it's just a book like you say it's it's sick so yeah that's that's what i like and a red bull hat and a red bull hat i'll forget that yeah sorry yeah next question if you couldn't do anything to do with like building a brand yep art fitness or art as well art as well yeah what would you do crowd you up like a career

1:51:20that is a good question like or what do you like say for example I know you don't really ever want to retire sorry I'll ask you that question actually do you think you'll retire at some point or do you want to like work in this brand forever whether it be working this brand forever or just be doing something in general I always think I'll be doing something creative just to keep my mind occupied just because I can't ever seem to be away from art. I'll always find myself. I feel like that kind of runs in your family. Your dad's such a grafter. Yeah. He doesn't need to be rocking up to his little warehouse shop thing in Wigan.

1:52:10Yeah, yeah. doing up mini buses and stuff like that, but he still rocks up every day. Yeah, he set a good example. Yeah, he's kind of like a role model. Even I see him as a role model for working hard, how much he grafts. Yeah, still grafting as well. Yeah. The stories he comes out with, whether he's been fighting with people or whether people are trying to rob something from his warehouse or whatever. Yeah, because he lives in Wigan, which is like the Wild West, isn't it? it is the wild west of the uk we're good yeah but yeah um yeah yeah like i i think to answer your first question i'd probably do something just like enjoyable like um if it's not creative or in any go on it can be it can be i'll give you that it can be creative yeah if you wanted to open like an art shop or something i'll give you that one yeah i think um it would probably be something in art yeah like painting yeah i think i'd love to do a uh a gallery a gallery yeah eventually when i've like properly found my own style yeah something like that or like i don't know maybe develop um because i really like interior design um i'd love to like develop my own furniture so it could be something like that what kind of furniture just like um coffee tables sofas i've designed my own tables before would you like actually like be a joiner and like oh like actually actually make it or are you just like designing it on the screen and then like someone else is like making it yeah i think i'd just like to design it i'm not sure i'm the best at diy but no i don't know if you you jet washing and you've done to be fair you've been doing up your house recently you bought a nice house in um orage yeah and you you've been kind of like doing that up over kind of like the last six months yeah yeah sick it's enjoyable i think it's just another it's another form of like expressing yourself through through design thank you mike is there anything else you want to cover touch on um no i just just like to say thank you for having me on no it's been genuinely it's been sick i think people will really enjoy this conversation because they say you you're a mysterious guy and hopefully we've brought out a bit of the mic that people want to see yeah yeah hopefully we'll see see how it does let us know in the comments if you liked it if you yeah we'll have him back on yeah I really enjoyed it thank you man thank you cheers