Red Bull Coach Jack Birch - #30 - The Jake Dearden Podcast

0:00Jack Birch, welcome. Thank you for having me. Can you explain to the people listening and watching what your job role is? So, yeah, my job role is I work for Red Bull as a strength and conditioning coach. And I have a bit of a bias towards the skate program. So I'm like the skate coordinator. And Red Bull has an athlete performance center based in Santa Monica. so I'm over there working with all types of Red Bull athletes um basically trying to solve some like performance questions and then dealing with any kind of like rehab cases that come through so uh yeah we get a big range anyone that wears a Red Bull hat is able to come through so it's a nice varied job yeah I think genuinely it's probably one of the coolest jobs you could have i think to put into perspective red bull as a brand that takes on athletes and as athletes on their roster i think if you took all the athletes that wear a cap put them in the olympics i think we'd be third in the medal table i think that's a fact or something like that so if you imagine the caliber of athletes that are coming through and the different athletes from myself who's a high rocks athlete fitness athlete to olympic skaters rock climbers mountain bikers you literally deal with the best athletes in the world and your job is to make them stronger and fitter and better at their sport yeah try my best it's quite quite a big job yeah no it's cool it's uh no i kind of i mean if you're like if you love sport and you have kind of grown up with that world like there isn't for me there isn't really many better jobs in like strength conditioning like kind of that suit me you know um obviously i was living i was in austria for the last three years at the performance center over there where the hq is but by the way you're english i'm english yeah yeah where are you from in the uk devon so devon so you cream then jam just to let you know is that it is that it that's the right way that's the okay okay that might offend some people would that offend some people i'm not gonna yeah i'm not gonna offend the corner shit but uh it's all right yeah so the fact that you you've picked yourself up moved out of the uk gone to austria obviously english isn't their first language over there um you've then been over there at the athlete performance center working for red bull for three years and then you've moved over to la and now you're working here um how do you even get into it let's go back to the start like how would you even get a job at red bull what did you do beforehand um what interested you have as a kid and stuff like that yeah we can go back uh i can rewind it all the way back um i mean obviously i grew up in devon grew up surfing like um skateboarding and like doing all kind of the fun stuff basically like Bart Simpson yeah you call it Bart Simpson all right yeah yeah basically I'll give myself that um I was uh yeah just just trying to enjoy that that the action sports world and also played a lot of football as well um so they were kind of the main sports that I played um and then yeah quite quickly I kind of realized like I cannot be in an office you know like I can't really be doing that and I tried to be a try to be a footballer ish I didn't really know what it took but I was just trying to you know play as good as level as possible and I you know didn't really play a decent level and same as surfing like um uh I was like doing some competitions and things but was never like a really good level I'm a few of my mates that were um but yeah I knew very quickly that I didn't want to work in an office and so then I was looking for uni courses to try and like think I can still work in sport as like a failed athlete and honestly I think most like half of strength and conditioning coaches maybe more are like kind of failed athletes like some are probably athletes that have moved into that world but like a lot of them kind of want to be close to sport and I know that was my initial um that was my initial driver and then um so yeah did sports science went to uni at Swansea which was class um kind of chose university courses that were close to the beach so I could still surf basically and I lucked out with Swansea being kind of close to the beach but also a really cool um sports science course where they had good connections with other kind of um programs and then um yeah kind of fast forward a bit like my first job was like internship at West Ham first team as like oh I didn't know that yeah so that was like my first that was my first gig you know so my dream job kind of happened immediately when I was like 21 and I did a lot of work like Like in my uni, you know, I did a lot of like stuff, like voluntary, was working for like Ospreys, was working for like Swansea City and like trying really hard at uni, especially the last year.

5:07Definitely having a good time, but I was trying hard, like working hard. How did you get the gig? Yeah. Was it just look or? Well, yeah, definitely a good slice of luck, like definitely a slice of luck, but also I had like, had to go through the interview process and stuff. And it helped that. I was doing I think three two or three days a week at Swansea City as like an intern basically just making protein shakes washing bottles like doing all like the kind of just all these shit jobs that you kind of do when you're an intern and then two or three mornings a week I was working at Osprey's like under 18s like the rugby program and basically weighing athletes getting their kind of movement jumps and then trying to look like I knew what I was doing in the gym coaching basically like that's what i was doing so that on top of like doing pretty well in the course like put me in pretty good stead for interviews so yeah end up getting that gig and then um yeah it's kind of crazy you know first day you turn up and i'm like with all these west hand players that i'm like watching on tv and i remember like i'm a liverpool fan not following football huge anymore but i remember the first day seeing andy carroll like oh my god it's andy I remember I just remember that and then I had loads of like uh mad experiences um at football being you know 21 from Devon moving to London and it was just like a big eye-opener basically but um yeah there for three years and yeah I had a really good really really good team around me as well like awesome medical team and um how close were you to the players um mixed really I mean when I first when I first arrived I was just trying to like figure out how to not be a complete idiot around them you know just trying to like not like fanboy them yeah I mean I probably fanboyed for the first week and then I realized okay these guys are just like they're some of the most in the same age as me or younger um or like it was a bit of a mixed bag but I kind of realized really quickly that they are just like lads that are really good at football and they're just like normal people you know earn a lot of money really good at football and then um and then you just start to yeah just start to slowly slowly kind of yeah connect with them but I was definitely still a big fan when I was 21 because I was like you know mad into football so so was still a little bit in awe but I kind of realized like oh this is my job now you know and I tried to kind of I don't know close that gap a little bit and and I think uh yeah getting starstruck kind of only really happened when like when we play games like away games and stuff and you'd bump in some players like when we played like um or when we played liverpool or something and i was c gerrard or we played um oh who do we play uh there was certain games where we would have some uh players come and train with us we had like thierry henry came and watched training i remember chatting to and i'm like oh god i don't screw this up yeah that's insane yeah like stuff like this and um yeah all those experiences were super cool what was your job role like what like yeah is it that simple or um yeah initially like i was like sports scientist but that was basically like i mean i think the world has changed now of like interns but traditionally that was like you were basically like you're sometimes a bit of a bitch you know you had to do you had to do like you know you're washing you're washing protein shakers you're maybe wearing some players taking like rps like how hard training was and stuff um you're kind of just being really helpful and then um And then I started to kind of get involved with like GPS.

8:39So you're setting up GPS for sessions, you're kind of analyzing sessions. And then once they kind of trust you and realize that you're like somewhat capable, then you'll start to get kind of like fringes of like kind of gym programs, covering sessions. And then you slowly build up your responsibility. And obviously I did okay, because after the first year, they kept me on. and then started to work like much closer on like kind of the rehab side that's what I was really interested in kind of like kind of return to play stuff on pitch and then yeah and then sort of did extra work with the academy program as well so I could just kind of you know get honestly you need to make some mistakes right at the start of your career as a coach and if I make mistakes with like their best players then it's gonna be a problem if something goes wrong you know so you end up uh trying some things the academy team and stuff and then um yeah and just sort of work your way up build your skills i guess that's mad yeah so you did that yeah and then how did you change from that to to getting kind of like a full-time yeah well i assume you was you getting paid during that time i was yeah i was getting paid internship it's not like i got paid 10 grand okay for a year 12 grand it was 12 grand so it's like grand a month basically so and i was living in like you know well the first year i was like that and then i was living in like in essex and i think in my next year i got paid like say 20k but i'm living in london and 20k doesn't go very far in london i mean it was like 10 years ago but still it doesn't go very far and uh and uh but i just kind of made a decision right this is like my dream job so who cares i'll do this for free you know i'll find a way to make it work um and then uh yeah and then i basically realized like okay i want to have some influence and some impact in this team and then i end up quitting that and i moved to ipswich and i took a pay cut of what wasn't very much but i did get a pay increase over the next couple years and then i was like head of the academy program in ipswich um and then it was i had like the under nine to 23s for strength and conditioning um and that honestly mate was like that was like the best move i could have made you know because base had an opportunity to like all the ideas and the the knowledge that i thought i had i could kind of implement it and um see if it was effective you know and we had a lot of good young players and uh had a it was cool working in the first team as well i was kind of supporting them that was like mick mccarthy was there and and um it was a a really good uh set up for like i would say um like lower resources and and less money but like everyone worked hard everyone was really like kind of reliable consistent like you had like a really good um kind of working mindset there yeah everyone was trying to make something of themselves and yeah trying to yeah like i say when there's not when there's not many of you yeah you all work harder yeah you kind of do different jobs and you kind of fill in for each other yeah exactly and you had to really and not that that didn't happen at west ham everyone worked super hard at west ham but the you know it's a big it's a massive club you can hide yeah yeah if you if you want to exactly yeah and then moving on to red bull yeah and then sorry very quick then i went to british rowing after that oh i was an olympic rowing program for like two years ahead of the um sort of the under 23s and then also coached on the senior men's and women's program and that was basically from there i moved to like the english institute of sport which now the uk is so and um when i was at the eis i worked with yeah a british rowing program for two years and then head of snc for gb ski and snowboard program for three years and out of all them so the the ski snow yeah the rowing or the football which was the least serious and which was the most serious oh when i say that like organized as well okay i don't dig anyone out least serious i mean when you say least serious organized like yeah when you think about the structure for like the gym yeah yeah yeah okay i mean it's all yeah it's such it's such a variety i mean like right on the side of like most controlled organized program is probably going to be like rowing because like the british rowing program is like one of the most successful programs in in the world in uh especially for british history and the coach um jürgen grobbler is the most successful coach in olympic sport ever like he's won the most medals of any coach ever oh i didn't actually yeah it's kind of crazy so um and the program's huge as well you know you've got like i'm gonna get this wrong but you probably got like 30 40 for the men's and 30 40 for the the women's program and then you got like the development program on top of that with 16 clubs kind of feeding into the senior program and um the thing with british rowing which was so good is that it was so clear about like what your role is like you boat's got to move 2k from start to finish right and um the the kind of um the sentence that was always uttered if you were to kind of bring an idea was like will it make the boat go faster and you're like uh and then they ask it again will it make the boat go faster and you're like probably not okay well don't do it then you know so that was always like that's the point that efficient if you you're not doing an exercise that makes them better for pulling that yeah rowing then it's not going in yeah and like kind of uh that was like when i first got there like you know that would be something that people say and i'm like what do you mean to speak like i think so but i don't really know and then you start specific but then you start to realize like okay actually like you this is the crux of the problem that they're trying to solve in rowing is getting a boat to go faster than other people to get it to hit a certain time in this 2k so you're like well everything i do should should make the boat go faster otherwise what's the point in doing it is it going to make it go slower well why would i do why do you do that then so i can high rocks like if i give you a program it's like yeah you might put in some weight you're going to be slow in the runs i think it'll be good to do like well it's not it's not gonna make me go any faster you know so what's the what's the point of this yeah there's trade-offs to everything yeah a lot of people only look at the positives whether i want to increase power surely that would make you roll better but to increase power you might have to increase your mass then you might be heavier yeah then you might be slower then you might be more inefficient and then the ball's actually going to go slower so yeah it's uh yeah there's always there's always a cost yeah there's always a cost and because you're around with other people as well so yeah that's that's a really clever way of looking at it and sometimes you can do so much that you're in the gym too long you're not recovering as much or you're not doing the things that you're meant to be doing or the most important things you're not executing them because you're tired of fatigue from the amount of pre-hab stuff you're doing or yeah all the recovery you've got to do afterwards that like it can take an impact sometimes taking out is better than adding more all the time yeah yeah um and then yeah just to on the other side of that you said about like the kind of the i say i don't i don't use the word serious this was definitely the most like uh more free i would say yeah a program is probably going to be around like the freestyle sport of like the ski and snowboard programs and because i worked across olympic and paralympic as well like i was working across like 10 disciplines so like with the paralympic was like cross country alpine and snowball cross and then like the olympic side was like all the freestyle disciplines alpine like all these disciplines so there's just so much going on you know that you really have to be your time has to be really like valuable when you decide to kind of commit to to deliver something um but the um yeah i would say like probably the i mean the paralympics i went to the paralympics with that with the uh gb team uh in in china and it was like one of the best things i've done you know it was like it was class and i was mainly i was working a lot with the snowball cross program uh cross country program and with the alpina as well but um yes some of those some of those i mean the squad especially the the paris snowboard boys and they all know who they are uh they're legends and like absolutely wild as well so i honestly like i assume office well on and off the slopes they're wild yeah i mean yeah like it's a mixed bag it's a mixed bag but they also like it's really humbling particularly working like i'm very lucky to have worked in like parasport like it really gives you good perspective of like range of athletes and like i've got so many stories about like um about like uh like my for example i mean this is just a random one but like my first ever trip with the cross country program i was like i was in a van and i was had to drive across norway um in the night in snow never driven in snow never met these guys i've got like six of the cross country team in the car with me and i'm driving i remember get a call from the physio and he's like oh this athlete's just tore his acl and i was like god damn you know sucks you know he's just torn his acl and i'm like talking on the phone and i go to the guy next to me like scott and i'm like god scott you know he's just he's just torn his acl and he's like yeah i wish i had an acl and i'm like ah okay this is the this is like this is where i'm at and i'll say like uh you know i remember like i put the air con on i was like oh my feet are cold and he's like yeah i wish i had feet you know and he's like he's like so these guys just like keep you in check you know and they give you uh and they give you some perspective of like kind of uh yeah what what you're up to so that range is really really cool to experience um and i've got loads of other random stories about that stuff but uh yeah that's a bit of a tangent but there you go yeah and then moving on to red bull yeah did you sign up for a job straight in austria or did you work in the uk team for a little bit or yeah no i went yeah i was i was just so basically the the Paralympics and Olympics had just finished.

18:53And then I, my like colleague, one of my colleagues at the time who I worked really, really closely with, got a really cool job. He's a physio, got a really cool job in, with the England like football team, national team. And I was like kind of thinking, you know, I've been there three years, like what are my next steps? And then like Red Bull, mate, I mean, Red Bull is always a company you kind of grown up with in a way. Like I remember like, you know, Felix Baumgart, I remember him jumping out from space and some of these other like movies that were kind of like synonymous of growing up with action sports.

19:28And yeah, Roald came up there as a strength and conditioning coach and applied for it and had to go through a couple interviews. And then they originally went for the one in L.A. and then they offered me a job in Salzburg in Austria. I remember having to like Google Salzburg like I had no idea. Do you know what I mean? No idea where it was. um but like yeah beautiful place and uh had the best time there so did that process and um yeah went over there and yeah three years over there and uh yeah two months over here now in in la that's sick yeah so obviously i want to move on to the athletes that you coach for you design plans for basically your job is to assess their current strength level strength levels their current fitness levels and see how you can progress them to make them better at their sport or if they've got any holes within the general fitness um you work with such a range of athletes is there something in common that everyone every elite athlete is pretty poor at or because i remember coming in uh first time ever at the the rebel apc in austria and you absolutely humbled me and you said you basically showed me a lot of exercise they were like balancing drills yeah basic stuff basic stuff yeah and he was like come on you meant it like a kid could do this and i could not do it to save my life it actually took me all week i think yeah to to get half decent of these yeah yeah uh i remember that yeah it was good good time um i mean there's there's i guess there isn't things that people like really not like everyone is bad at you know like there's probably some like there's probably some common themes around like maybe like sleep and recovery and stuff like that that is quite consistently like not great but um yeah I think what what I kind of realized is especially at Red Bull like you guys are all so specialized like you're so specialized in your discipline you know that you're really really good at the thing you know that you do so like you know you might get like a a BMX ring or something and you get them to do kind of these basic like walking drills and you're like how does this person even walk you know like effectively you know like how do they get around the supermarket you put them on a bike and they literally look like so elegant and they can yeah do everything perfectly and looks beautiful you know so it's like i think to wear a red bull hat you have to be a super super specialized individual like typically and you end up like having such a specialist skill set for your domain that there's like general physical preparedness that you would assume that most people could do that they can't you know so it's like kind of take like when you take a fish out of water you know like you're asking them to do a task which isn't their job you know so it's so that's probably what you found even though I thought you know some basic running drills you're really good at running so I was like okay maybe you can start here and then yeah but it generally just opened my eyes up to see how many things i'm bad at that i could potentially improve to make my performance better yeah and i'm sure you get that all the time where because that's what you're looking for basically you're looking to find holes that you can fix and then these athletes are going to get to that next level yeah um but for me i i don't know i i i go in that gym I see all these incredible athletes and I find it quite daunting because they're so talented.

23:11You might be next to a Tour de France rider, but it's quite relatable when you know that they're bad at stuff too. And people always assume, oh, you must be great at swimming. You must be great at doing other types of fitness. But I'm good at pushing a sled and running. And that's it. yeah that's literally it yeah and but you need to be good at the other stuff you know no i don't but people assume that you are and they're like oh they're kind of a little bit i can see in their eyes they're let down when when i'm not good at ping pong for example or pool yeah we're just saying like i've never spent any time in a pub yeah so i'm really bad at pub quizzes yeah playing pool yeah playing darts yeah i don't know what places are ping pong but yeah yeah not i mean not basically anything that's not fitness like i'm not good at yeah and uh but it's like i say i've been with a tour de france rider i've played football with them and they can't kick a ball for sure basically yeah it was funny though because every athlete says that in a way like they're like uh there'll be you know you might have a skater comes in and then you have like you come like even it happened today i think or yesterday you're running and then one of the skater's like damn look at this guy and he's like yeah and he's just looking at you and i know that you're probably looking at him when he gets on the board you're like jesus i'm i've got nothing you know well i can't even literally i can't even ride a skateboard i think i could potentially go 20 meters on a skateboard without falling off yeah so it's weird like a lot of people have this kind of like not imposter syndrome but you you definitely look at um other people's kind of like skill sets and attributes that you don't have like that's probably a common thing that happens quick question with that so obviously with red bull you have athletes and the main aim of the athlete performance center is for them to get better you to pick holes in their performance and whether it's doing all the testing vo2 match testing the strength testing have you got any athletes that because i think i've witnessed it a little bit athletes that have purposely like avoided coming to the athlete performance center because they don't want to be almost found out they're not going to get found out because you understand that they're not going to be great at everything yeah but because they have the thought that everyone's going to think that they're great at everything they they'd rather not go yeah yeah i mean like people almost scared of coming to the athlete performance center because they they think it's so elitist and they're not that they've got that imposter syndrome yeah I think um I think that happens like you know when people just get tested anyway you know then it that happens like maybe it's like a human thing but other people just probably reframe it as like right well I'm going to test and see how just the areas I need to work on but like obviously that can instill fear in people um but I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure that does happen and I know when some people get their results back when they do some diagnostics just like they're you know they're gutted they're like uh you know i'm so bad compared to like the norms or or whatever you know i'm um like they might be a really elite athlete in their world but when they do the diagnostics it shows them to be kind of you know bang average like with everyone or even like super low kind of compared to the norms within their kind of athlete uh data a set but i look at that and go that's great you know like you you're here on these things which we think are important for your sport like you've got a massive ceiling of like physical capacity that we can start to kind of work with and play with um so if an athlete comes and they are like say they're like you know quite i don't say average but let's say they're like not at the top of their sport they're kind of this kind of middle ground and they come in and smash every test that's kind of like a weird place to be in because you're like all right well physically you're actually in a really good spot you might be injury free physically really good but like you just need to get better at your sport you know and i can like that is the worst possible position to be in yeah it's kind of it's kind of but it's like it's like great do you have athletes like that yeah that definitely happens yeah like not mediocre in the sport because obviously to be a rebel athlete you've got to be like at the top level but yeah the aim is for a athlete like i got told is always the podium so first second or third that's the kind of aim no matter what obviously you want to win uh but say if they're coming fifth in whatever they're doing and they're they've optimized like every they've come to you every training component they've optimized yeah and but it's rare that they've optimized every component it might just be like physically they've ticked these boxes you know so then it's like okay well let's explore like around like uh you know the men performance side or nutrition how you're fueling or your your competition strategy and how you're kind of looking after yourself on game day and then it might be something that's like completely like skill orientated that i don't know maybe they're just like um uh they've just got an area to develop within this like skill set that's important for their sport and then the question gets changed of like not how good are they at this test but how can we support them to develop that skill and then you might try and break down that skill and see what components they have deficits on that we can really try and support um so it's kind of like i mean i'm just like kind of excited by most people that come in i'm like whatever whatever numbers happen like i don't really mind what the numbers are if it's the first time i'm seeing you it's like it's it's cool it's more that they move in the right direction the next time i see you that's kind of what more what i care about just to make sure the intervention is is worthwhile and useful you know um and if they're not going in the right direction then it's a different conversation of yeah what are we doing wrong or how did it was the program applied in the right way um but like everyone's always got stuff to work on you know even the best i feel like it's because there's so many disciplines that you guys cover like you said you're just one small cog in the whole thing your strength and conditioning there's endurance there's your mental performance there's there's nutrition there's just actually like there's doctors there work there's there's so many things that you guys cover that i think it's so incredible that you can work as a team and let's say you can make anyone better no matter what hopefully that's the that's the idea well i definitely learn something every time yeah i learn some a lot every time i come so i'm grateful for that yeah i've got a question for you now after seeing so many athletes come through the doors how much do you think a professional like a top level athlete how much do you think of it's down to genetics versus hard work or do you need a bit of both or is there some people that have obviously worked harder and some people that have played on genetics a little bit more yeah because i've witnessed a couple of interesting things like just just being around elite athletes yeah yeah in this way yeah i mean this is like a it's always the question i mean i i'm i will answer it i'll throw it back to you where do you think you sit on this talent or this like genetic versus uh environment kind of trained where do you think you sit on that i think for high rocks i think i i'm naturally probably quite good at high rocks i don't know whether that's because of my history of always just having a love and passion for weight training and running but when i was younger like i did do well in cross country so without training or just like naturally i'd say a little bit of training my training was like i just used to be obsessed with like the game manhunt remember that i just used to run around not when i was like 15 16 i'm talking like six seven eight years old last week yeah last week i played manhunt but uh nah when i'm like six seven eight like i was always had like an obsession with running yeah i remember when the actually i remember when the wii fit came out remember that that board yeah yeah for the nintendo wii yeah and i must have been about seven or eight at the time when it came out we got one and for some reason i think i've been mentally tapped or a little bit wrong in the head from then because i used to go on the jogging app okay and i used to jog on the spot for 30 minutes wow yeah that's insane when i'm like seven or seven like just staring at the screen and the the person the me remember the me explains a lot yeah explain just used to be running and now you just used to jog on the spot yeah i wasn't nothing's changed really you're still on the treadmill yeah i wasn't brought up yeah true yeah i do love a treadmill yeah but uh i wasn't brought up with like a sporty family anything but like yeah my my family didn't do any sport but my best friends family did do sport so they used to take us to parkrun every saturday okay and i naturally was pretty good yeah and i'd start like by my early teens i'd start yeah um getting close to the front so i think there's definitely some genetics there and with high rocks like at the end of the day i think i've been in high rocks like three and a half years like i feel like i've done pretty well to get to the elite 15 in three and a half years i feel like it probably should take longer so that means don't get me wrong i've worked hard for three and a half years but i don't think three and a half years of working hard is long enough yeah like some people work all their lives to get to the top so yeah i think genetics does play a part in my own but i feel like you've you've got to kind of dial everything as well yeah i mean i think that sounds like you know you you i'm sure you have some like some genetics that would be you know suited towards like your sport but like if you do tests if you do the endurance test my vo2 is 61 yeah which is is good yeah like it's great for for an average human yeah but it's nowhere near like yeah some of the guys that come through your doors like what they're 80 90 some of them well yeah i mean the freaky freaky freaks yeah yeah i mean but your your um your threshold is going to be really good like i imagine your threshold testing is pretty high because i don't think it's like abnormal i think it's just like yeah good if there's a scale it's like good elite freakish and and where are you i put and then you're giving me i'm in like good i'm in like the middle bit you'll be knocking on the elite elite door i'm sure yeah yeah i can't remember top of my head um but yeah i mean going back to the question i mean uh there's definitely like i don't think there's really anyone out there and maybe it's like minuscule minus most minuscule percentage of people that like are incredibly gifted and don't train and are successful you know that's just like i think with the level of sport at the moment like just the world of sport i think that it doesn't really happen there's definitely going to be people that are like genetically predisposed to be you know uh like more fast twitch fibers so they're going to be suited to more as he's like kind of power dominant type sports you know like you're like even at seven you started training to be like 100 meter sprinter you're probably not going to be setting world records you know even if you train from like seven um but like there's things like particularly around like the world of endurance like that's very trainable but there's still going to be people with characteristics that are going to be better suited towards kind of you know endurance um but uh i definitely am on the side of like it's your environment that shapes you and um and also that gives hope to kind of everyone as well but they're definitely sports that um certain kind of genetic traits will mean that you probably get a little bit of a head start um in in certain worlds in certain sports but i think sports that you know the more skill based you get like the more it goes down the route of um the route of like your environment shaping you you know like i was just in in japan uh with with red bull on like a with the um with the skate program and uh it was like 16 of the best young japanese skaters in the world and you've got nine-year-olds that are doing incredible like insane stuff like to the point where i was speaking to uh the kid's mom and his mom's getting loads of uh messages saying that your kid's ai they don't believe he's real no way yeah yeah so it's like you get he's getting fucked over by ai like he literally got like he's that good that people are thinking he's ai yeah but because of ai like he's not getting the credit he deserves well i mean he's nine so he's like he's it's fine is it his instagram by the way or is his mom's instagram is she getting all these followers or what no no no he's got he's got a social media and then his mom's looking after it but it's just an example where you got like you know insanely skilled really really really high level like athletes are like such a young age and obviously yeah there's probably going to be some genetic things that are going to help but they've had like deliberate practice and like a significant a number of like hopefully good hours and also like the train the work ethic is is different in different parts of the world as well um so you've got this like amazing concoction of all these things that come together to create a really good environment to create incredible skaters um and you know you see that in like often like the the the freaks of whatever sport you know you see that in football and you see that in like playing styles of different nations within football you know um and you see that in like yeah all manner of all manner of sports um so it's always really interesting to find out people's backstories as well you know like how they got there like you know you get like wingsuit base jumpers like how do you get into that you know like that's insane to me you can't be genetically good at i mean maybe you can maybe you have a bit of screw loose and you can be uh i think i think that's the the one i think genetics you just your adrenaline receptors just don't work maybe yeah i don't know but the thing is like uh it's that's also a really interesting topic around like how people perceive risk and um you know you have seen a ton of like the like free solo like alex honnold doing you know this these types of challenges like um the way these types of people perceive risk is like is completely different to how we perceive risk but it's often built through um it's often built through um tons and tons of time in that situation that you can kind of feel like you can calculate that situation to a point where that doesn't really feel that threatening whereas if we're just put on that wall we're gonna be filling up hands you know that is gonna be the most dire situation ever um and we're just not exposed to that situation so yeah a bit of a long winded answer but yeah it's a bit of a rage Now, going back to the talented guys, when you talk about these freaks that come in and they are genetically gifted, do you get anyone that's so gifted within their sport that they can't be bothered doing the training?

38:31Not can't be bothered, and I don't want to badmouth anyone, but is there anyone that is so talented that they don't see the point in training or even to the point of they don't really enjoy training, they're just good at the sport, and they can make a shitload of money off it. So they've got to do that sport. Yeah. So they don't like it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess you do see that, you know, people are like really good at their job, but they don't like it, you know? Like you just, they're just, it happens to be, their job happens to be sport. You know, it happens to be a professional athlete. So I think you probably see that in all worlds, but I think it's harder within sport because it often requires like a level of dedication to get to that point that like, you must've enjoyed it at one point, probably.

39:15um and i'm sure there are people that are at the top that like haven't enjoyed it from the start but that makes it really really difficult and it's probably quite unusual um so yeah there are there are those but again it really depends on like what your aspirations are as an individual within that sport so if your aspirations are to like you know feed my family get some potential like generational wealth and uh and i want to like just enjoy playing the game whatever the game is if it's like football for example like um maybe you like your ambitions aren't to win like the premier league and to win champions league it's like no i just want to have like good career make enough money um sort out my generations my family and like get to a point where i can achieve that and maybe that's your ambition and uh um that definitely that definitely happens um but with with athletes that we see at the center like you have to make an active decision to come to the center usually so you've kind of almost like bypassed that like those people aren't really going to come because they don't really mind unless something really unless they get really badly injured and then they realize okay i need to get back from this to like achieve those things still you know so then that's kind of a different different story so when i was last at the apc yeah i was chatting to one of the endurance coaches obviously you've moved to la now so i was chatting to one of them and they were saying that they were making a plan for one of the athletes that was returning from injury he hadn't trained in four weeks and he was having a conversation with this athlete saying we need to get a move on with your training because we need to get your build your fitness back yeah and the athlete turned around to him and said no i'm different okay I don't need to train I'll do a couple of days and I'll build my fitness back I'm different and have you ever experienced anything like that in any kind of where someone just has so much confidence in themselves that they don't stress when they're injured they don't stress when they're not as fit as they should be have you ever had that?

41:33yeah I mean yeah that definitely um i haven't had it like said in that exact way but like have definitely had people that had um unlimited levels of like confidence in their ability and that's like like it's great you know do you think you need that as an athlete uh i mean people do it without that but it definitely it definitely gives you i don't know like a belief is like having belief is just like a it's a it's a super it's a superpower i think right so like you know people that believe they can do something gone to like achieve things like i always i mean the best example that i think in like kind of like modern sport is like um with like conor mcgregor and like the usa modern but in the last like 10 years but like conor mcgregor in the ufc like just insane belief i mean not insane he did it you know but but a crazy belief in his own capability and and um his ability within the within the octagon to like go and knock people out choose the round all this kind of stuff and then you kind of and you saw that like kind of manifesting in front of your eyes it's just like insatiable belief and obviously it took him to a point and then there's you know whatever happened in the rest of his career but like you see these people that have got like a just a unwavering belief in their ability and i think you just it's yeah it's a superpower if you can like genuinely um feel that um and you know i've there's there's a ton of athletes that like you know i often ask like you know oh who'd you look up to who's your favorite like like who's your favorite skater like oh me like i'm my favorite i'm my favorite skater no way yeah people that say that yeah people say but like but they're saying in a way that's like it's like a they liked their style or they they just that's how they think about it like they're their own you say who's your favorite skater and they could pick anyone they could pick fucking tony ark yeah but they're saying nah me yeah that's what they're saying but that's that's that's that's just like a an example but like you have that within definitely within other realms you know i because i rate that yeah i never could see myself doing that like i i think i feel like especially being from the uk like we're very humble yeah i think and you you don't big up yourself yeah much i think other country is potentially uh yeah a different but uh that is insane belief yeah but it's got them to that level obviously yeah and also like if you don't believe in yourself then who else is going to you know like i think it's like you know you'll believe in yourself to a to a point whether it's like to that level i don't know but like um like you have to have a belief that you're able to achieve a thing because if you can't like even realize it in your own brain then like yeah you may be maybe skilled enough to go and do it but it's like it i think it's a bigger hurdle to climb and that's by the way i'm a coach i am not an elite athlete by any means so this is just from like experience of talking to people and seeing them do it you know i think with that though when i feel like there's a fine line of yeah thinking you're the best yeah but you could also like think you're the best and still have role models that you see as better than you yeah i don't know i don't know what what happens when you become the best in the world you still have them role models maybe in different sports maybe uh in past eras where they've retired or whatever and you're not actually able to compete against them.

45:10But I always see it as a superpower as well to have them role models and one day be like them. Like you're working almost to be like them. Have you ever witnessed it where someone actually achieves better than them, if that makes sense? And then is that when it becomes like, I'm my favorite person in the world? I just can't conceptualize that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe it's like, as a British, you know, it's like something that's like kind of drilled into you to be kind of a bit more reserved or a bit more kind of humble or you know there's always there's always i've there's always going to be someone that's better than you yeah that's what i for sure live by yeah um and that way it's kind of motivating because you can always improve yeah do you not get to the point where i'm the best i don't need to work hard because i'm the best is that not a mentality or is it kind of like i'm the best and i need to stay the best and that's why i'm doing it because i don't want anyone else to beat me yeah i think it comes in different like it's framed you know differently to everyone but like you know if someone like use the word favorite like if it's your favorite athlete it's like well it's me i'm my favorite athlete you know that's not me saying it that's like you know what what person might say um it's not necessarily saying that they might be the best or there's not other things they can learn from people but they just believe themselves be like they're their favorite athlete you know and i think um like even if you do bypass like a record or you bypass like um you know an achievement within sport it's like it's it's obviously comparable but you're actually achieving it in a different era so like the the environment's different you know and like you know you get like um um say i don't know i don't want to keep using the like the skateboarding kind of analogy but like um you know like uh like tony hawk did a 900 i can't remember how many years ago kind of uh blanked on that but i remember watching that uh and that was i was so young i don't know if i where i watched it but i remember seeing the clip um and then uh now one of the uh now like a 900 like is like reasonably achievable for a lot of people you know um like it's still an insane trick like it's insane but like you've got these kind of like super young uh super young kids doing this at like 9 10 11 years old and there's a cool interview and maybe i'll have to send it to you but there's a cool interview of uh uh one of these um young japanese skaters and i think he says how tony hawk's sitting next to him and asking like oh you know how long did it take you to uh like how he goes how old are you like um and he's like oh nine and he's like i've done a 900 and then he also did 1080 so another like 180 so how long did it take you to learn that and he's like oh like two days you know and it took him like his whole career to go from like you know or do a chunk of his career to go 720 to 900 or something but that's just one of them things that like tony hawk i mean that's just an example created the the thought in everyone's head that that was possible and actually made it possible it's like that's a clear example is the four minute mile within yeah running like as soon as it was broken yeah four minute mile then everyone started breaking it the years to come yeah it wasn't like this thing where it got broken once and then no one ever broke it yeah like it was achieved over and over again because then people knew it was possible yeah it's something that is aspirable to so yeah like pushing them limits is always yeah the person that can do it first is for me the the og yeah literally no for sure and that happens that's got that you got examples of that and like you know every like every sport i'm sure that happens and that's like this concept like a something that's never been done you know talked about that within the high rock stuff is like doing things that like just literally haven't been done before you know it's like it's quite like a yeah it's quite like a special thing and often when that when that happens then the like floodgates are opened and then this kind of like momentum that that those floodgates kind of create you know who knows what's next um and that's why the newer sport it's also kind of interesting you know kind of pose the question of like what the world record would be in five years time you know yeah who knows um because being a bit of a younger sport and uh world records are kind of getting uh broken you know um so it's always like it's like i mean i'm not super knowledgeable on hyrox but it's the like the first like unbroken warbles you know it's like that and then that might become a standard and then other things might become a standard when people start doing that um and the splits might be a certain time and that becomes the standard you know so who knows where it will go um every sport has their own kind of uh yeah their own structure around that so that's cool what makes the athletes the rebel athletes different to good people in their sport.

50:16So what makes good people great in your opinion? Oh my God. What makes good people great? I don't know if I'm at liberty to answer that. What are the typical traits that you see among all the athletes that you coach? Yeah. That, ah, that's why they are at the top of their sport. Or is it just literally down to luck? Yeah. I mean, there's gotta be luck. you know you like there must be luck in your career you know there must be and i'm sure everyone has a whole chunk of luck even like discovering the sport that they're really good at you know so there's there has to be some luck along the way um but you you can't get to that point without working really hard so work ethic is definitely one thing um and like work ethic like coupled with like consistency and probably some good guidance either a coach or like a significant other within their kind of community um i'd say with most red bull athletes like they've had a they've been in an environment where like that has um and kind of going back to your question earlier but they've been an environment which has like shaped them in a way that they have the tools around them like not maybe not even on purpose to excel within that world so i definitely say work ethic having the right people around them um and well i mean honestly if you have those two things that's pretty good um and then not and they've had luck to probably not have anything that's like significant time loss um within their career so just consistency over years though without any major major injuries or like yeah they've not gone off to university and stopped for three years yeah i mean people do like that does happen but it's definitely lesser than not you know not the norm and people do get these big injuries and come back from them but um it helps if you if you you know you do more time doing doing the thing you know so if you if you haven't had any major injuries or you haven't had like significant things in your life that have affected you doing the sport um but yeah they're probably like a couple key actually i'm sure there's more but like they're definitely i was gonna ask what about recovery like do these guys obsess about recovery or does just obsessing stress them out so they don't really think about it or are they forced to do recovery like is someone telling them you need to go to bed stop playing on your playstation or watching netflix or yeah are they normal people are they like on it yeah i mean it's a mixed bag i mean i would say like if you have the word recovery like obsess and force shouldn't be in the same sentence you know um because it should be something that's like it's kind of what you're doing every like the whole time that you're not doing the sport or training um and maybe you are doing you know recovery type training but um yeah recovery is obviously like a it's it's a it's obviously fundamental to be successful um and there's a whole range of ways to do it and um it's definitely like become much bigger within the world of professional sport now people are putting a lot more emphasis on it um to the point do you think it's a bit overhyped like to the point of where it's becoming over yeah i mean i mean obviously i you know it's everyone knows about like you know the fundamentals of recovery you know about like you know sleep nutrition and like stress all these types of like basic things that make um basic things that like uh should um should support the recovery process and most people don't really have the kind of fundamentals of of uh of recovery and you know most athletes a lot of athletes don't sleep super well or they may not fuel optimally and if you can just tick those two things that's going to be like one of the biggest you know chunks um and there's obviously a ton of um there's obviously a ton of methods out there around you know like uh cold therapy heat therapy there's like uh all different types of massage and treatment and there's like a whole uh range of um different kind of modalities out there but i think um finding out like the thing that works best for you and trying to think about a few different like markers that would indicate like that you're recovered and and ready to train like they're like it's definitely not a one-size-fits-all you know it's um you might actually get a big stress response when you go into like cold water like you might really really hate it but actually like there might be some other time other types of um other types of like uh of recovery methods that you use like i mean you use probably like use like active recovery do you like uh what do you use for you so for me personally it's like i say i i love how you said it's very person dependent yeah and people like different things and at the end of the day for me i've tried so many different recovery methods and i find that the ones that get you into a sympathetic state so a relaxed state where you can switch off uh the best also things that provide blood flow because if you provide blood flow uh to the muscles that are injured or a sore yeah and you're gonna give new nutrients and promote new new nutrients to heal that area and then just giving yourself time as well so for me having a day off or having more sleep generally is the best thing like i am the worst like my recovery is really rubbish when my sleep's disrupted yeah i really need a good night's sleep yeah does that be your number one or one of your sleep i obsess about sleep like i know you said most people most athletes don't get a good night's sleep but i if i don't get a good night's sleep like i'll yeah i'll sacrifice training i've seen your week i've seen some of your weep scores they're kind of crazy i like genuinely like try for nine hours a night if i but anywhere between eight and nine hours like if yeah if it's below eight i'm an unhappy person yeah which sounds have you ever had a one percent on weep i have actually during the speed project oh yeah yeah not a night out you were thinking night out yeah mine was definitely free training as well yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah one percent club no i love the whoop it just makes it uh super simple to kind of analyze everything and it just gives it in like the simplest form like yeah you've got a recovery score if it's amber have a think about recovery if it's red have a proper think about recovery maybe take a rest day if it's green you're good to send it yeah um within reason obviously stick to your training program and stuff but uh like i think just the value of a day off yeah and i think from me transitioning to just training to then becoming a professional athlete that is the one thing that i really struggled with because you when you turn to a professional athlete you think this is my day job now i need to train eight hours a day and if i'm not training eight hours a or doing something that is productive for eight hours towards my goal then i'm a bum and that's how i felt that's generally how i felt so it's so hard to not overtrain and you have to realize that you need a day off and just having a day off is probably one of the the best things at least once a week yeah i think the the tour de france guys i was speaking to one of the borough guys and he was saying he does three days on one day off and they just repeat that cycle three days on one day off so you know every eight days they're having two days off which you wouldn't think a tour de france guy would be taking that much off but um it's interesting and it just when i was speaking to him about it as well again just confidence within his training yeah whereas like i'll speak to you about training you can probably see straight away and i don't know if this is because it's a new sport but i've not got confidence in my training i'm like should i be doing this should i not be doing this should i be uh doing more should i not be and i think that's because with hyrox no one's figured out the optimal training program or the optimal volume so everyone's traveling everyone yeah and if someone says that they've nailed it let's see it because yeah uh the hyrox world needs to know that so yeah um that that's one thing yeah um another thing uh what do you think like what do elite athletes do in their off time like do they proper chill or do they have different hobbies do they yeah what do they tend to do well i'll answer that but what do you what do you like to do in your off time uh i think because high rocks you can't live off high rocks yeah as as a sport on its own so i've got to have sponsors yeah i've got to make an income yeah so everything outside of training yeah is focusing on trying to build a business yeah from it yeah and trying to build whether that's focusing on content and documenting on youtube yeah that's doing a podcast whether it's uh just trying to help other people or coaching or whatever it is like it's trying to build up this kind of business so we can reach as many people as possible to inspire as many people as possible because that's why i got into this i didn't get into this to yes i want to become the best athlete that i can be i want to win i want to be one day world champion but my ultimate goal is to inspire as many people into this sport as possible because i was like you a coach beforehand yeah and i think it's just a really cool thing yeah um yeah i mean um yeah so like by doing that like the recovery is difficult you know i don't switch off so so like i'll go to your i'll go to the mental health woman yeah um mental health woman what they call sports yeah he needs to recover um well you could like mental performance mental performance we'll get the right word in there yeah um and i'll just spiel out for an hour yeah talking about all my problems yeah and they'll just say you need to chill out more you need to stop doing anything that's like associated with the sport that you're doing yeah in your own time yeah and i'm like i'm sorry i'm sorry i can't do that yeah i just can't well the thing is you can you can maybe you can do that but you don't want to and i understand why i don't want to you know because um like to achieve the things that you just said you want to do like having days off like okay it might give you more energy to do to do the the thing but like it you you'd kind of feel that like that actually isn't helping me achieve these like grand ambitions that you've got within the world of like high rocks you know um but i think we start to start to see is that you know burnout is a very real thing within like you know i definitely experienced it as like a coach and it's athletes often experience that as well and that just kind of happens like even if you are you know recovering and doing all the right things you might just at a moment just like hit a wall and you see this like in all professions but you definitely see it within you know within sport where like athletes they either like you know performance drops or um or you might see that um they might need to take like a significant period of time or they get like a big injury you know because all of these things are are related they stress the system to a point where like um yeah something breaks you know and something has to go enough sometimes can be an injury sometimes it can be something um in this area you know so um it's uh it's quite challenging but um your question was um asking uh you forgot it now yeah yeah i'm gonna put you on the spot talk for a long time i was trying to remember it um but you said about no what do people what do what do guys do in their time off yeah um i mean it's it's a real it's a real mixed bag you know like uh some people completely can definitely reset i can't speak for everyone but i know a lot of um a lot of guys will have uh other hobbies which is definitely what i would recommend that's the first thing i would recommend like get into something else that is completely yeah completely different you know like it literally could be something completely random but if you're a higher up to not running marathons like that's not really another hobby yeah because it's i mean do you call that hobby that's an insane hobby yeah no but it's not something like that do you know me but it's but it's like something completely different but you're not doing yeah you're not learning the language yeah you're not doing that as a hobby you know you're not doing marathon like marathon runners helping your high rocks as well yeah but actually like you trying to learn spanish or something like at some point that might help your high rocks you might be able to open up to the spanish audience and do your podcast in spanish and then you you know who knows what happens about was get a spanish guest on and speak so there's like there's there's you realize like now how how connected everything is that even if you do something that's completely rogue there's probably going to find a way to kind of link things up um so i know if an athlete has you know if they're injured you get a big acl injury a big knee injury or something and they're out for nine months a year like and they can't do the sport but they have something else that they're interested in that they can get into you know so athletes playing instruments or or i've seen what's the maddest instrument an athlete plays i don't know uh i've seen i don't know definitely people dj and definitely people playing dj is dj and like a popular one i mean after some some people do that for sure um like uh i mean if you get injured and you can dj and put on parties and stuff and that's pretty that's pretty cool thing i mean would you put on your own party after you've won people do that yeah yeah i know some of the snowballers have done that um and uh yeah i mean other people are into completely random stuff like you know um other athletes might be into like farming or they might be into like uh i don't know calligraphy or they might be into something that's completely rogue you know it's just i think it's really good to have something that is completely different from your from your world um just to kind of uh occupy your brain in a different way for sure yeah interesting interesting in regards to the move from salzburg to la yep what's different over here is there anything different in regards to red bull is like um i mean i'm just curious like i've seen both sides I think you've got an incredible facility here, but Austria feels like you're going, it's like homely.

1:05:23Yeah. And it's like a real recovery place. Yeah. Whereas LA seems more like scientific, a little bit like more gym vibes, modern gym vibes. Yeah. I mean, I think the, the, the centers are, you know, they're kind of suit the style of the place, you know, within like within Austria and like really nice, beautiful location. and you know where you as an athlete where you stay is like right next to like fusha z lake which is beautiful beautiful um and you've got the mountains all around you and so you kind of go there and you feel that you can really like kind of maybe disconnect and be quite quite zen and focus on the the thing that you're there for like la you can also do that but you know as soon as anyone uh like any athlete gets into la and people know they're in la i think like there's like a infinite number of kind of like opportunities or people that might like kind of want your time or or um or are kind of uh interest interested in you which is like comes with it like a ton of insane opportunities and it's not that that doesn't happen in austria but it feels like the one in um la is like it kind of suits the place you know it's trying yeah it's trying more people coming through the doors yeah and the aim is that be it's to be more of like kind of the the innovation hub to be kind of like pushing things forward and that's like kind of the the projection for the next um chunk of time over there so it's really exciting and obviously you've got la olympics 2028 so like there's definitely a big push towards um this period of time and hopefully to have lots of yeah athletes um stand on podiums and doing well there um so yeah uh the center feels um yeah more like modern a bit more sleek a bit more like uh thinking about performance innovation and um the one in austria is definitely like it's you know it's near the hq it's it's an amazing facility that it's you know you walk past it you wouldn't know it exists you know like this is just a tiny little plaque on the side and it's in a converted farmhouse um so it keeps the aesthetic of austria and they've kind of built something that's like really incredible inside that space so yeah i guess they they serve the same purpose but there's probably a little bit more of a bias towards different things sick i just thought it'd be interesting for people to know like a bit of an insight into what goes on because red bull keeps it really closed off to the public it's behind closed doors i feel like not many people know it's actually there in the world i know we've done a couple of YouTubes on it and stuff like that just explaining like how Red Bull helped me as an athlete yeah and for that I see Red Bull not only as one of the coolest brands in the world but I also see them as one of the best brands in the world because they genuinely help their athletes become the best athletes that they can be and if you're walking into a shop and you're looking for an energy drink if you know that about Red Bull and you know that you basically Red Bull are making better olympians or world champions in sports and you're going to pick that drink i would anyway um so it's cool that the money made by the can has actually gone into investing because you have got the top of the range like the amount of money it must cost for these facilities and like i said the facilities themselves are not profitable one bit they're not open to the public people can't pay to come in like it's very much for the athletes and you've got the best doctors you've got the best strength and conditioning coaches or maybe bang average strength i'm joking i agree yeah no there's some good ones there yeah there's some good ones and then there's jack yeah i know jack is incredible at his job uh yeah you've got basically the best professionals and obviously these for them just to pay the wages there's a lot there so like it's uh it's great that the business is invested in that and they see the value in that so um yeah it's pretty cool to just get an insight from you yeah um finishing off because you're kind of like a coach yeah i wanted to ask just a couple of questions for people listening um what for anyone that's trying to improve their fitness what do you think the best bang for the book like exercises movements are when i say we'll go fitness and then we'll go strength okay so conditioning yeah okay best bang for buck yeah uh i don't like answering those questions because i need to know the goal okay okay so you're too yeah you're like uh but it depends on the situation if you want me to give an answer um but right okay best lower body exercise for strength first again i can't answer that oh is it person depending no it's like it's a uh very like outcome driven you know so like i when i won't spend too long this but let's say for example like um you because you don't really squat too much now right i don't know well yeah just gobble it so if i say traditionally a squat would be probably the best one of the best lower limb strength exercises but if you're like when i squat my back it's really grumbly you know um so probably developing that attribute is probably not the best thing for you so maybe i use a leg press or maybe i use something else you know so uh good answer good answer basically everything needs to be personalized to the athlete to their situation their problems what they've got going on yeah and they're kind of like weaknesses as well yeah i suppose you need to work on the weaknesses like one thing that me personally at like and it's very easy to do this but like i said to you i don't squat but i can't be like that for the rest of my life like i need to learn how to reintroduce that and it's a slow process yeah but like we want to be functioning functioning athletes where we can pick up something heavy and we can squat and we can get into positions like there's no point avoiding the stuff that you just shit at yeah like the there is a progression for everything um yeah so that's one thing i'm trying to do yeah since doing my backing yeah there's some things that i've avoided but one day i am going to have to introduce them back in because i want to be functioning so yeah i've learned that from you and your team so yeah that's pretty sick yeah um okay but if you want if you want me to give an answer i'd probably and this is might not be uh my like favorite go-to is going to be like i mean track bar deadlift something track bar or um or leg press okay leg press yeah leg press because yeah the tech the requirement for like the the technical component of a leg press is like solo yeah so you can really overload the the joints um upper body bench bench press no uh no it's not it's uh i always go to like a pull-up or a chin-up i think like i've got like yeah basic um like yeah basic like uh upper body exercises are always my like go-to like push up and uh pull up like if you can nail those you can do all tons of variations of those um question for the pull-ups yeah we went down to venice beach this morning oh nice we had to get on the rings bang some out we bang some out on the rings and the bar my question to you pull-ups better on rings or better on a bar, like a fixed bar?

1:12:54I mean, if you want to get like the natural movement of the shoulder, like the natural movement of the joint, then you're probably getting that more with the ring, you know, with the rings. They're definitely harder. They are harder. Yeah, much harder. So if you can do ring pull-ups, then yeah, stick with those and do those. But if you can't, then do a pull-up. And if you can't do that, do an assisted one or just pull something, you know, and then build up to it. And then push-ups as well. yeah push-ups yeah yeah yeah well that's what i do most days yeah easy easy volume that's what i like yeah it's cool yeah it's actually on about it this morning like how efficient it is just to what i do now for because i don't really need that much upper body strength for high rocks i'll just face the fact i just kind of tick over with the upper body stuff so yeah i literally do probably two to three times a week i'll just do 50 pull-ups and 100 push-ups and just split it up into do uh five sets of 10 pull-ups yeah and in between i do 20 push-ups nice and that takes me 10 minutes i do that three times a week that's 30 minutes of work on the upper body and i'm just taking over at that yeah it's so much minimal effort but yeah it's yeah it's it's so good for you yeah it's just like so underrated like you don't have to do a million exercises for your body i don't think yeah i mean it depends also if you've got a good base as well like that's yeah i suppose i suppose that's a good argument you need a base you can't just start with that yeah doing sets of 10 pull ups you know is pretty difficult for most people but like like that uh push-ups and pull-ups like yeah i did that exact exact protocol like every day for i don't know how every day yeah beating me oh come on two to three times a week you do it every day well i don't know but uh i for probably about like i don't know over a year i was doing that every day i think yeah yeah but i mean did you get jacked i mean i looked okay your name is jack as well so that kind of suits yeah i mean i i looked okay uh but it was like it was uh it's just good to you know something you can generally do everywhere and you can you can just bang them out and um any like things that you can do which don't take time are simple require no equipment that's definitely what i'm more swaying towards like being good at those and having those skills so like you know around like yeah calisthenics and having stuff that you can just you know carry on your head why you moved here to la so you can just go on a muscle beach every day you see me there just repping out how many muscle ups can you do i don't think i can answer that because i don't think i can do them i did them i went to one okay i went to crossfit like when i was like 22 and i did one muscle up and then i did two muscle ups and i tore my pec so then i don't really delve down that world too much anymore yeah yeah so that's my first experience of crossfit if you if you don't know them right they're very very punishing on the body they are yeah they are um so i bought them and i probably can't do them either yeah so we should just leave that conversation nah nah cool nice shall we wrap it up yeah let's do it thank you mate thanks yeah let's go grab some food yeah i think we've got tacos tonight nice taco tuesday on uh thursday okay thursdays Tack off Thursday.

1:16:13There's no rules, mate. There we go. Thank you. Sweet.