WHAT IS XENOM? | Keith Barlow | Ep 70

0:00Keith Barlow, welcome to the podcast. Jake? How are you? How was this morning? Yeah, it was good. We traveled in from where we live in southwest London to Shoreditch, which is here, which is pretty much as far as you can go across London. But it's all good. It's nice to be here. It's not somewhere that we come that often anymore. incredible and who are you who am i um this is like a funny one because i spent most of my career being behind the scenes of things so we know each other through the pr work that um our agency fittest did with uh represent um over over many years as 247 has kind of grown on that side And that's been my position for most of my career has been in the background on PR, strategic comms and narratives for brands like Represent or like High Rocks.

0:58But now in this new world, I have this more public facing persona, which I'm still trying to get used to as the founder of Xenom. So Xenom is the decathlon of fitness. So it is a two-day competition, five events on day one, five events on day two. We use something called the Elite Performance Index to give a points-based score for fitness. So across the 10 events of Xenom, we test everything, metabolic conditioning, weightlifting, gymnastics, in a bunch of different variations. We're a CrossFit licensed event. And very recently, by the time this podcast goes out, our strategic partnership with High Rocks will also be live.

1:43And within that world, then what we're looking at is broad work capacity across time and modal domains. So if you look at our competitions, there is in our events, everything from a one rep snatch through to a 2K ski, 3K run through to a toes to bar muscle up workout. So we really kind of cover the whole spectrum of fitness. And what we aim to do is we aim to deliver these world-class, super high-level competitions for consumers that are pursuing that work capacity across broad time and modal domains. Broadly, that's within the CrossFit space. It's within the hybrid space for those consumers that are looking to test themselves, not just in endurance, but also in weightlifting and in gymnastics as well.

2:32That's insane. that's uh that's some event 10 10 events in one yeah over a weekend uh that's crazy how does someone even go about training for that um so training for that uh there's a there's a bunch of amazing places to go and train um obviously a crossfit affiliate um is probably your best bet um the the training for this um is constantly varied functional movements performed at relatively high intensity and and that will be a phrase that is very familiar to anyone that kind of exists in that world um we work with as well key training partners so people like um hard work pays off um and improving fitness so they're both they're starting crossfit right starting they started doing a little bit in high rocks and and now they're going to be partners within xenon yes exactly exactly yeah so um i guess the the people listening to this podcast and and your audience are probably more from that high rock space.

3:32And so both Proven and HWPA will be familiar to them. But if they're not aware, they started in the CrossFit space. So both are training brands from top athletes, Matt Fraser and Tia Claire Toomey. And they are now, yeah, tier one training partners for us. So providing training programs and helping to support the growth of our events. I think that when you look at the world of fitness and when you look at um, what helps these training partners, what helps affiliates, what helps gym owners generally. And people have seen this, um, across the course of the rise of high rocks is, um, when people have a goal, when people have something to train for, um, it gets, it gets so much more buy-in.

4:19Like it's quite difficult. Christian always explained it, um, in the early days of high rocks is you know people for that high rocks community um for that average gym goer you basically had people were either training for aesthetics or they were training uh to burn calories and and those were kind of the the two options and there was no kind of gamified sporting version of fitness for that um for that mass participation for that endurance-based consumer who was going to a gym every week three times a week and doing running and some burpees and a little bit of lifting in the same way in in the crossfit world the best competitions have generally been reserved for elite athletes they've generally been reserved for think about the crossfit games you think about these kind of huge experiential events they have been for the the 20 30 40 best athletes in the world and what we learned from high rocks is if you can give everyday athletes everyday consumers that same experience and we talk uh we talk a little bit um about people say like what what business is xenom like what do you guys do and i i genuinely believe that we are in the business of the suspension of disbelief like we take everyday athletes and it's the same concept in high rocks you take an everyday person and you put them into this situation in this world-class venue and you give them the opportunity to perform in a competition that makes them feel like a superstar that makes them feel like the hero of their own story and whether they're competing so for us by the time this comes out foundations will be out which is our most accessible form of the competition and it doesn't matter if you're coming and competing with us and you're doing a day one ticket in the foundations division in a pair or if you're doing the full xenon the decathlon of fitness two-day competition in elite competing against the best in the world both of those consumers get the same feeling um and that's something that we believe so completely in um that that experience that experience and that opportunity to give people this feeling um yeah no it's really i feel like it's what fitness needs in my opinion uh we mentioned off air at the moment there's an amazing kind of category and selection of workouts and competitions that you can do on the endurance side of of uh sports and fitness uh but there's not much in terms of actually like you say gamifying strength um speed power all these things that you need that people are equally as good at and maybe even find more enjoyable than endurance.

7:11On the endurance side, you've got half marathons, marathons, they're super popular. You've got your triathlons, which the Ironman hype at the moment is on full trend. But from, like you say, the strength side, there's CrossFit, which is great. But for me personally, I see CrossFit as almost too specialized because it's been going around and this is my understanding of it it started off and it's been going you know almost 20 years now crossfit over 20 years over 20 years it's been going and if you probably look back at the first games they were probably quite simple compared to now but because the athletes are getting better and better and better year on year they've got to make the workouts harder they've got to incorporate skills that you know no one's ever seen before i remember a couple of years ago there was um they were skipping with the rope and i think 10 minutes before the workout they said you're going to be judged and you're going to have 10 minutes now to learn a new skill which was uh double unders with a cross in between and that for me is so isolating like in a million years i wouldn't be able to do that like it or it It'd take me a long, long time.

8:24Like if you put that with hands down walking, muscle ups and everything else that you've got to learn. For anyone to be, if they said, right, I want to give CrossFit a go and I want to get to the CrossFit games. If they're in the twenties, they've just not got the chance. In my opinion, like you've got to be born and bred into it. You've either got to be an elite gymnast or an elite Olympic weightlifter. And some might argue, yes, you might be able to do it, but it's going to be very hard if you're not coming from them backgrounds and you're not naturally very good. If you look at everyone that's in the CrossFit Games, they've probably got some level of incredible skill within them kind of areas.

9:03Whereas, like you say, for the everyday athlete, after they've done a high rocks, what are they going to do? They either just continue doing high rocks or they might go to a local CrossFit comp. But for me, a local CrossFit comp is taking a step back from the experience that you get from a high rocks yeah because it's a it's a lot more foundational it's done in your local gym yes it's great but it's not at the scale of crossfitters and there's nothing like that at the moment so hats off to you how did the how did it even how did you come up with the idea do you know what i mean like yeah did you was you studying for this for kind of like a while or did it come to you quite easily yeah um I think I I probably had a I had a unique kind of background and and set of skills to put something like this together so my um and you're you're a CrossFitter by heart I'm I am a CrossFitter by heart so I apologize for just slagging off CrossFit no it's not slagging off but you know what I mean yeah it's so skilled it's too good for me basically that's what I'm saying no I I think I I understand absolutely the points that you're making on crossfit look um the constantly varied um the unknown and the unknowable nature of it um makes for an incredible test if you want to go and find the fittest person on earth um and you accept the crossfit definition of fitness which is broad work capacity across time modal domains that unknown and unknowable is very important if you want to design a mass participation competition that is as attractive as possible to the broadest possible demographic of people while still staying true to the methodology it is maybe not the most efficient way of creating that product um and so that was where we saw the opportunity so maybe just to to dial back so my background um i studied strength and conditioning originally um i worked for a

11:07for an NRL team. I came back to the UK and then I, I've always been like a fast learner. Um, I decided trending conditioning wasn't something that I wanted to carry on doing. And so I came back to London and I got a job in the city. I ended up working and investing for a private family office. Um, got a really interesting exposure across the investment, um, life cycle there everything from kind of infrastructure to more vc stuff and then um my wife one day i came home from work and she asked if i wanted to help run a pr agency with her um which she'd set up called fittest which is an amazing agency which looks after some of the best brands in the world and health and wellness um we stepped into that we've grown that business into a really um amazing organization um across the course of that um we we worked with uh started working with high rocks i became very close to Christian and Mo and had this incredible experience working with them of watching this awesome prescience that Christian had to be able to forecast this world that didn't exist and this ability to kind of shape the world around him he I remember sitting with him and it was before the first um before the first UK event so High Rocks hadn't launched in the UK yet.

12:26And he told me this story about this sport called high rocks, which was going to become the biggest sport in the world. And there was one day going to be a world where, um, every gym in the world had a high rock zone at this point, our first event in, um, Birmingham, which was a huge success for us was 650 athletes. Like it was, it was a million miles away from, from what the reality was but that vision and that ability to see hey there is this huge demographic there are 300 million people in the world who are going to the gym who are running who are doing burpees and they have no cultural connection they have no central methodology they have no competition which connects them all that was an incredible insight and i learned a huge amount both from Christian and from Mo then as we went and we built that sport.

13:19Um, and now 2 million people are going to do it this year and it's going to change an unbelievable number of lives. And it's doing just the most incredible work. Uh, at the same time I was a CrossFitter and I remember I turned up to my first High Rocks. Um, it was the Birmingham event thinking, Oh, this is just like a long wad. Like this will be fine. And I did the first, I did the first one. And I remember we, we finished we got back to the hotel at like eight o 'clock and I was like I need to get to bed like that was so hard it was so incredible and it made me not just through the difficulty of the competition but it made me really understand what events are and what they can mean to people and what they can give people we talk about there is a metamorphosis that happens when people compete when people step into the arena and they have the light shone on them of competition they have this incredible opportunity and it's an opportunity that is devoid in modern life to test themselves to battle themselves and actually it doesn't matter what the result is it doesn't matter if someone runs it in two hours or they run it in 53 minutes and they break a world record just by being there just by stepping onto the arena by engaging in hardship by engaging in the challenge there is this they are fundamentally changed they're fundamentally altered and they become a different person when they come off the field um and so i had seen then okay we've done this amazing thing in high rocks and there's this community of people who i'm a part of um there are still millions of people doing crossfit there are millions of people engaged in the sport who absolutely love it and at the moment we are kind of in that world of where we were eight years ago with Christian of there is a world that we can go and create and we can go and morph the firmament of the universe around us and we can create a world where there is that same competition for people who are pursuant of this broad work capacity across time and modal domains and so I started to think about okay what is the format that would work I've always enjoyed the fact that so there are some there are some sacred carves in the world of crossfit unknown and unknowable is one of them um it has to be unknown and unknowable obviously high rocks is not and when we were first running with high rocks we were constantly asked are you going to change the workouts are you going to change this you're going to change that um and i love the fact that we never did um the decathlon was a sport that if you went back 20 years pre-mobile phones and you were in the pub with your mates and someone said to you, who's the fittest person on earth?

16:03There are probably like, you would probably have said it's either the best marathon runner in the world or the best decathlete. And the decathlete was CrossFit before it was CrossFit. And that was an amazing competition. And it was like, there was something there, um, to be able to then go and yeah, create Xenom. I then, um, I told Christian about it very early, said, Hey, I'm thinking of going doing this thing and I spent a lot of time with them on the the format and on the structure and how we were gonna what was going to be most attractive and and what was going to work to scale um raised some money uh from a venture capital firm uh called Wanda which is the venture capital business of a guy called Jeffrey Katzenberg and Sujay Jaswa Jeffrey was the um founder of DreamWorks animations and then he was the CEO at Disney and CJ was from Dropbox they are now also investors in High Rocks and we're super excited to also announce that now Christian and Mo have also invested directly into Xenom and yeah we launched a strategic partnership with High Rocks as well and that all started yeah eight months ago so it's been a busy it's been a busy eight months that is crazy that genuinely like to have them people and the caliber of people like you just mentioned they're so invested within your idea and even even to the point of just just christian and mo like they've turned hyrox to gold like they they've they've seen it through when everyone doubted it and don't get me wrong like hyrox has had it you know every single second question i get is is high rocks a trend when's it how long is it going to last how long is it it's always that thing and i i always say it's going to stay around for for a long time a very long time it's here to stay um so for you to have like their thoughts and they they're backing you as well like it means a lot in my opinion like i think anyone looking at the fitness world um everyone's been trying to think of the next best high rocks that's what everyone's been trying to do like i we speak to red bull red bull are constantly asking have you got any new ideas i remember the first time i ever met with someone from red bull and they were like what do you think people are going to move to after high rocks and i couldn't answer it i did not have an answer but i genuinely see xenon being one of these possibilities i think there's a number of ways you can go from if you start your fitness journey maybe you you enter a high rocks or something like that after you've completed a high rocks people are always like what's next and like you say they could either go on to running they could go on to triathlon and a lot of people do that but then for the strength side I think xenom is going to be kind of referred to almost like the iron man of I don't know it's the the decathlon of fitness, but like the Ironman of the kind of like strength and power and athlete world, if that makes sense.

19:11I feel like people are going to be like, people are really proud to call themselves an Ironman. They'll get the Ironman title too. I think people will feel similar around Xenon just because the caliber of athletes that are one taking part, but two, how taxing it is. like um not to scare people from it but like 10 events yeah in a weekend it's not something that you can just wing easily yeah whereas like there probably are some events out there that you know you don't have to train for and the everyday person might be able to get through yes they'll be sore but uh they might be able to get through it whereas like to to be good at this thing you're going to have to dedicate time and i think that's what people want and need and i think there's a massive need in the fitness industry for that yeah no 100 i think definitely if you want to come and do this you definitely want to train for it first um we have so exactly like you said the way that we we look at it now is okay within the function you have a spectrum of fitness over here you have pure endurance events you have ultra marathons you have marathons you have towards the functional fitness side of the spectrum, then you have high rocks and high rocks is predominantly endurance, predominantly running with functional fitness.

20:32What we then said was, okay, if you were to go to the other side of that spectrum and you were to think about a mass participation competition, where would you go? And that is then, okay, what is this more extreme kind of Ironman version of it? At the same time, you want it to be infinitely scalable. so to take part in a xenon you can take part as an individual or in a pair if you in a pair you're going to split the work so similar to a high rocks where you have two different versions of the competition you can then take part in four different divisions so you can take part in elite and in elite you can win prize money the workouts are really tough the weights are very heavy the gymnastics is super complex you can take part in rx and rx would be okay you do the open rx every year and you're a really competent CrossFit athlete, you can take part in compete.

21:24Compete is kind of an intermediate in between, um, in between, um, maybe, maybe you do the open every year, but you don't quite get all of the movements. Then you have a compete division and then you have foundations. And the foundation division is if you come into the gym and you start training for four weeks, you'll be fine to come and do it. Instead of a rope climb, you do a zombie pull on the rope where you keep your feet on the floor and you pull yourself to standing. And that's really then, okay, across the spectrum of fitness and across the spectrum of ability, you have somewhere that you can come in at all levels.

22:02And then underneath as well, we also run the Xenon 5K. So our fifth event of the competition is a 2K ski into a 3K run. so you can also do that as a standalone ticket and if you are just interested in the endurance side of stuff then you can come and take part in that as well the idea being that yeah you have a a pyramid of sport that ladders all the way up to this highest and best expression of the sport but with an access point at every level yeah no it's interesting and just for the people out there that are intrigued how does it actually run over a weekend so it's five workouts a day yeah is a certain bit of time between each workouts like how how's that work so you have a minimum of 45 minutes between each event every time so um i'll run you through the whole thing um so day one saturday i'm competing as an individual i'm gonna do a one rep max snatch um i'm then gonna have at least 45 minutes before my next event that could be longer um but it will never be shorter um i'm then going to come and do an eight minute amrap so an amrap is as many reps as possible of wall walks and rope climbs um so that's two wall walks one rope climb four wall walks two rope climbs and continuing up the ladder for eight minutes at the end of that eight minutes you have a three minute rest period and then you're going to come in and you're going to do a 60 second max cow echo bike that is that is um a a punchy test but because of the nature of what we are trying to do is we're trying to test across all scopes so we want to test at the 60 second time zone as well as at the 25 minute time zone in our endurance event um the echo cowls is definitely the workout that people remember, I would say.

24:02If anyone's done 60 seconds max effort on an echo bike, they'll know that it's not the most pleasant experience, but it's one that I'm intrigued. What's the record so far within a Xenom event? For 60 seconds max. I think it was 53 in Dallas. I got 48 in London. It's by far my best event. I'm terrible at all of the gymnastics, but mass moves mass. Yeah, of course. Of course. It's so interesting with it. Just staying on that movement, like the, the echo back is, uh, obviously it takes power to weight ratio out. So the bigger athlete is probably going to be a little bit better because you are sat down.

24:44Um, and like I say, it's, it's just, why, why was the assault bike? Is it assault bike? Echo bike? It's an echo bike. It's a rogue echo bike. Yeah. Rogue echo bike. So it was actually, was, why was it invented? it was invented to like lord no someone some someone one day just decided cycling's not hard enough yeah let's make this tougher yeah it's actually a phenomenal piece of kit to actually train on uh for work past day for vo2 max and stuff like that because it gets your heart rate so much higher than say like a normal bike because you're using your full body yeah but it's also not very taxing on the cns like it's obviously off yeah it's not like you're doing vo2 max running intervals where you you can risk that injury yeah so it's actually a really good piece of kit that i've started using for like my high rocks training and just general kind of like work past it but like i say to do 60 seconds it's a fantastic test like it's a fantastic if you've ever done if you ever been in crossfit gym if you ever done fran or something and you have like it's called fran lung where you kind of you can taste metal like that's that's a little bit what you what you're getting what's the tactic is it kind of like all out from the start and hold on or is it like 90 for the minute it's definitely maximum sustainable intensity i think if you think about energy system wise and you think about like your your very short chain energy system which your atp energy system you've got about 15 seconds of capacity in there and if you red line after 15 seconds then you're always playing catch up to try and like recover that so it's definitely maximum sustainable intensity over the over the 60 seconds personally i hit like 30 seconds see where i'm at and be able to make like a conscious decision do i go up or do i go down um i've done it quite a few times now so yeah and really intrigued would you probably probably like a a 400 meter all-out effort like that's what you'd probably yeah kind of match yeah it was a similar time domain isn't it it's yeah it's it's too long to be a pure sprint um but it's short enough that you have to yeah you have to be just underneath red line the whole time yeah uh event four so event four so you have the biggest break of um the day after event three always because you probably on a little bit of time to recover from the echo bike.

27:07You then go into a barbell cycling workout, which is like a medium weight barbell cycling piece with deadlifts, front squats, shoulder to overhead and thrusters. Sounds horrendous. Again, sounds tough. So it's a five minute workout. It's a 12-9-6-3 rep scheme. And it's designed, it's obviously progressively overloading each of the individual components of the movement and then putting them all together into a thruster at the end um it's a really good test five minutes you're shooting for like three or four rounds during during that and you're scaling at the foundations level that's quite a light barbell at the elite level that's a 70 kilo barbell like that's really getting punchy um but super fun personally i like that i'm obviously uh i'm a bit bigger the gymnastics workouts are not my favorite and so i prefer the power output pieces but that's then interesting and we can talk a little bit about how we then create a scoring system that then reflects all of that so once you've done your barbell workout then the final workout of the day and this is the one that i'd love you to come and test for us is our 2K ski into a 3K run, which is super simple, endurance, aerobic output.

28:32Again, across the course of that whole day, you've then tested everything from 60 seconds right the way through to like a, well, for you, probably like a 17-minute effort. But for most of our athletes, like a 24, 25-minute effort. Yeah, that's a great little workout. I'm just thinking that the cross-country skiers are probably going to be the ones that say that. Like I've seen, I've looked at quite a few, like, I don't know if you've, you know, Killian Jone. Okay. Yeah. So he is one of the best ultra runners of all time. But it's so interesting. He splits up his complete year with, he runs in the summer and then he cross-country skis in the winter.

29:14So I'm just thinking someone like him, obviously a little bit shorter because he's doing ultra distances, that'd be like the most incredible. So someone European who like say cross country, skis in the winter and then runs in the summer, it'd be amazing at that. Well, I think if we get, I think I'd love to see a really strong high rocks athlete who's going to be able to pull like a 140, 135, five like average ski into then like three minute k's like i think that there are some really punchy times that can come from that i think our top time at the moment is jack farlow who won it in dallas with like an 18 minute around that um but yeah i think that there's there's room for improvement yeah so whenever you have a sport like this and crossfit's a funny sport because it changes all the time um but when you then create like a single format it lets people become specialized in exactly the same way I remember when the one hour mark was broken in High Rocks for the first time and everyone's like oh my god like how much better can people get and now suddenly we're looking at 52 minutes and at some point we're going to be looking below that we're going to see that same thing come about in Xenom so that's your day one so you've done five events on day one day two then you come in we have a new piece of kit called the Air Rhino so Rogue is our foundational partner they provide all of our equipment and they have this new piece of kit the air rhino and we do a rhino pull on that for five reps for max load that's a really interesting test um it looks a bit like a deadlift but there isn't um there's no eccentric weight on an air rhino um and it's reactive resistance um so it is a it is a strength piece but it's also a coordination piece and it's a a bit of a physical challenge to see how you can deploy force quickly into this new piece of kit that you're probably not that familiar with um that is a shorter workout you you have two attempts at a five rep max on that then you go into a um you'll again have a minimum of 45 minutes rest just touching on that one um obviously these like say it's a brand new piece of a kit people are probably more than likely not going to be able to have a chance to practice on that piece of kit i don't know if you have it in like warm-up zones or anything so we have 10 of them in the warm-up zone um yeah and everyone can everyone can get on but how would you how would you train for that if say for example you don't have access to one because i assume in the near future they're going to probably be rolled out into most gyms but for right now like how would someone train for that piece of kit i mean it's obviously a hinging movement um so i would say it's a heavy clean pool like if you if you didn't have access to anything else i would say it's a heavy clean pool and maybe even a heavy clean pool with no eccentric so it's like a an explosive concentric movement and a drop the bar piece because you're being tested um across a couple of different bits there but the biggest piece is force exertion so how quickly can you recruit motor units how efficient is your central nervous system at deploying force as quickly as possible and driving velocity on the bar sounds like a perfect piece of kit for me um i've had back injuries for the the last couple of years and um yeah i really struggle with dead lifting and it's normally just because you're holding the the weight at the top and like then the eccentric part so maybe i'll get my hands on one of them but it's an amazing it's an amazing piece of kit um do you think it's got some good carryover to like say high rocks and other things as well yeah 100 i mean we've done a lot of work with it so it has two modes it has the rhino mode where it's this really heavy pull but you can turn rhino mode off and then it's more like a traditional erg and so then we've done a lot of stuff of like okay run a kilometer pull 10 000 pounds on the erg um with it not on rhino mode as a conditioning piece you can also put a belt squat onto it so you can use it for like um quad and leg conditioning as well um it's a really versatile piece of kit and especially if you're a trainer or something and you have people in populations who yet don't want a huge amount of spinal loading don't want a huge amount of sheer force going through their lower back but still want to be able to get um get stimulus in it's a really great piece of kit incredible next uh next workout next one toaster bar so toaster bar dumbbell um hang dumbbell snatch and then into a progression of a muscle up or a vertical pull.

33:51So depending on if you're in elite, you're going to go straight, you're going to do 15 toes to bar, you're going to do 15 double hang snatch, three rounds, then you're going to do 10 bar muscle ups, and then you're going to go into an AMRAP of ring muscle ups. But then if you're doing the open version of this, you're going to do toes to rings, you're going to do pull ups, you're going to do a single arm dumbbell snatch and if you do the foundations version you're going to do an ab mat sit up so there's going to be a level at which you can come and do it whichever one you do sounds like a grippy workout i love it it is a very grippy workout it again so i'm a good example so i mentioned the elite performance index earlier so the elite performance index is a product of if you think about any great sport sports have very familiar kind of cultural totems to them in high rocks, sub 60 minutes.

34:45If you go sub 60, you're an athlete. If you go sub three hours in the marathon, whatever it is, you have this kind of understanding of how someone performs. Our way of doing that in Xenom is the elite performance index. So for each event, you can get a base mark elite score, which is worth a thousand points. The easiest example of this is the snatch. The best male individual elite snatch done in a competition is 153 kilos so that's our thousand point mark so if you come and you snatch 153 kilos you get a thousand points for that if you were to snatch 100 kilos you would get roughly 666 points if you were to snatch 50 kilos you would get roughly 300 points you could also get more so if you were a specialist if um a specialist olympic weightlifter came in and snatched 180 they could get 1 ,100 points so across the course of the weekend you'll get a score out of 10 ,000 essentially and if you look at then my points so I do super well on the assault bike the echo bike I get 700 points in that and then I get 200 points in the in the wall walk rope climb because I'm really bad at the gymnastics piece so across the course of the weekend then I'm going to finish the competition and this really we believe is something that has never existed in this space before where I'm a 4 ,000 point athlete.

36:14Jake's a 5 ,000 point athlete my wife Kate is a 6 ,000 point athlete and we have this ability to compare and contrast who we are. That also means and Kate's a great example because she did the Dallas event and then she did the London event and she got 4 ,200 points in Dallas, but she did badly in the gymnastics workouts. She then had three months between them, went and worked on her gymnastics, came back to London, and now she's a 4 ,700 point athlete. And all of her gymnastics scores markedly went up. And it gives her then this framework in exactly the same way that we do in High Rocks, where you finish a race and you go, oh, I got 116, but it took me six minutes to do the burpees.

37:03Okay. I know what I need to go and work on. Then we give that to people in this sport as well. So we're seven events in. So we've just done our Toaster Bar workout. Yeah. So you're going to come into workout number eight. So this is a conditioning workout, metabolic conditioning, burpees, ski, echo. So you're going to do 30 burpees over the line. You're going to do 30 calorie ski. You're going to do 30 calories echo. Then you're going to come back to burpees and then you go back up the ladder. So you're going to do it in reverse order. And then you're going to finish. You're going to come back to the burpees and you're going to finish with an AMRAP there.

37:42The burpees is a burpee over the line and with a new standard. So it's a hand release burpee, which is really getting people. An effort to make judging easier. If you go hand release, then you guarantee people's chests are on the floor. It also makes the movement much harder because there's no rebounding. So that's definitely, I think, a workout that any High Rocks consumers will enjoy and do well at. It obviously is a combination of things that everyone's kind of done before. Again, you have minimum of a 45 minute break. You come into a heavy clean ladder so a heavy clean ladder um you do 10 8 6 4 2 reps of a clean weight and obviously at the elite level that's super high and it finishes with the bar at 150 kilos and then at foundations a really relatively light bar for um anyone that wants to come take part that again a bit more of a power workout a bit more of a conditioning workout with some muscular endurance in it and then the final workout of the weekend how's that work sorry so you've got you've got 10 reps down to two reps yep um and then you have a final bar which is a heavy bar that you hit as many reps as you can on okay amazing and is there a certain number of rest between like each so after you do the 10 reps so you do your 10 and then the rest is changing the plates oh so it goes heavier yeah all right okay wow yes yeah yeah yeah so yeah uh an ascending lander ladder perfect yeah Yeah.

39:10Incredible. And then final workout. So then the final workout is, um, a gymnastics workout to finish. So it's handstand pushups, it's dumbbell lunges and it's chest to bar pull-ups or at the foundations level, um, coming down into a ring row rather than a pull-up. With all these exercises, obviously there's a lot of kind of like strength elements. It's going to be quite heavy. Some of it's quite grippy. are you allowed to use like aids so say for example uh a belt yes weightlifting belt or like grips or anything like that like where's it is there i'm assuming there's like a rule book like there is yeah yep so there's a full rule book um that you can go and look at but yeah you can use aids absolutely so you can use a lifting belt you can use um knee sleeves you can use grips you can use all of this stuff okay incredible and then uh with it being spread out amongst a full day within kind of like the venue what do people tend to do within their 45 minutes rest like i assume they're hydrating is there somewhere for them to kind of like chill out yeah absolutely yes there's an athlete zone there's a warm-up zone um where you can go and find space and and time it's it's interesting it's obviously it's a different experience high rocks come in you're probably in the venue for three hours you you're in you race you leave you're in the venue for a lot longer here so we do a lot of work with partners with activations with having stuff for people to do whilst they're there but when you're competing you generally are going to finish the workout you're going to be like okay I want to get some carbs in I want to get some water in I want to sit down I want to get ready to go again as the sport evolves we are bringing in these different versions as well so we now have the day one and the day two ticket so you can choose to come and just do day one you still get an elite performance index score you're ranked on a different table and that is a separate competition or you can come and do the day two which is quite nice because you can also then say okay day one is obviously more power output so maybe i want to come and do that and i prefer that maybe day two is a more gymnastics day and i want to come and do that um so we give people more options as well and for some people if they two days maybe is too much time for them then they can come and just have that that one day option as well i love that and for the people out there that uh maybe top tier athletes people that will will take to this and will be kind of like obsessed with this they might even use like one of the days is like training or something like that so when they come to a bigger event and they're not uh because it's hard to do a two-day event right it's probably going to tax you for you know a couple of weeks after like you you know you wouldn't probably be able to do say for example when when this does get bigger and you potentially got one every weekend yeah it's not going to be like hyrox where you can just fly in do an event and then next week go do another one like because you're doing 10 events like it's going to touch you it's going to be so tough on the body it's going to take you longer to recover yeah but maybe you'd be able to use it as like training no absolutely it's definitely a different category of an event um you so we did dallas and we did london and we had three months in between and we had a bunch of people who did both competitions and so that was okay for them and it gave them time to train and adapt and come back would you say 12 weeks is kind of like the minimum you should potentially have between yeah i mean it depends who you are i mean when you look at crossfit athletes and especially when there really into a competition phase and so we had athletes who came and did dallas and then four weeks later at the crossfit games and they really they came competed in dallas used that as a sharpener to then head into so it depends kind of where you're at in the season and how you're organizing yourself yeah no i found it um yeah it's it's really cool how much are you racing at the moment well but as hyrox has kind of like changed the rules and now we've got to have five races to uh kind of put yourself on a leaderboard yeah that's five good races yeah the chances of you having five good races like you know you know something always kind of like goes wrong so you'd probably say you probably have to race 10 times to get into the elite 15 so that's on a 365 day rolling clock uh you've done if you want to do the doubles as well that's more races so i probably the this year i think actual races i think i'll probably end up doing probably close to 30 races i think okay which is it's a lot yeah and the thing i feel like it struggles to do as like a professional athlete is you can't you don't have time to do anything else which is obviously apart from build a budding podcast business i actually started this to rest more okay yeah from the training so uh but uh yeah no i think uh it's very hard obviously like i say i like to do my running challenges i like to do that kind of stuff yeah um i simply won't be doing that i'll be focusing you're gonna cut down on that a little bit this yeah of course of course it's gonna be what was your most recent marathon time was it 218 uh i got 222 in the end yeah i was aiming for that but uh got 222 uh but uh yeah it's just uh at the moment um i i need to performing high rocks and i'm excited for it i'm excited for going kind of like all in and it's probably what i needed so kind of grateful for this new scoring system to come around because it's forced me to put all my eggs in one basket so we'll see how we do in that um touchwood is going um it's going okay so far this season um but yeah it's uh really kind of like intriguing and it's uh it's gonna be fun but um yeah how how do you see someone who potentially takes xenom up and they say look i want to for the next year i want to become the best xenom athlete how many times do you think they could potentially would you would you want them competing within a year and like how would they go about their training so we'll announce 2027 for our full season which is at the moment eight locations potentially a ninth and i would think if you were going to really dedicate yourself into being the best xenon athlete in the world you're probably going to want to pick three or four of those competitions to really focus on and come and compete in we have an interesting setup in that um we pay world record payouts so if you're looking for prize money, you get paid when you break a world record.

45:54So at the moment, Jack Farlow and Abigail Domit hold the two world records for the elite individuals. Until their world record is broken, every event, we put prize money up. Every event that someone doesn't break that world record, that prize money rolls over as well. So we had 10 grand available in London. Nobody broke it. We take half that money and we roll it over to Miami. So the prize purse in Miami will be 15 ,000 and then it will go to 20 ,000. And at some point there'll be this big chunk of money that we're saying to people, someone's got to come and win it. So it's a little bit different because we don't have at the moment this kind of, we don't have the elite 15 set up.

46:40It is come and compete when you want to compete. I think we were really conscious in setting this up that for the, and we are very much, our focus is on creating an amazing competition for as many people as possible. But for the elite athletes, I think that elite and mass participation sit side by side, hand in hand, and they feed each other. And we wanted to ensure that for the elite athletes, then there wasn't a pressure on them to say you have to come and race here and now, or you have to come and compete here and now. knowing that everyone has busy schedules we wanted to create a system where they could choose when they wanted to come and compete with us yeah that that's really interesting i i've i think that's incredible as well that you can rock up to the same event as people that you've seen online that you know you've watched that your role models within the sport um because you're going to have that obviously like you say the whoever's at the top people will aspire to be like yeah and the fact that they can go and compete side by side with them guys like it i think that's incredible and it's something that not you can't really do in many sports yeah like say for example track and field if i ever wanted to i could never go and race with jacob ingebritson yeah oh do you know i think you get this in high rocks as well though because when you guys go and race in pro races and you're you're looking for your points in the in in the leaderboard you go and race in in the Birmingham male pros and then all of these local athletes get to stand on the start line with you or with Hunter or whoever it might be like that's an amazing thing and we definitely have seen it particularly in Dallas where we had a lot of CrossFit Games athletes there and we spoke to so many people who were like man I was in the warm-up area or I was on the floor and I was I was working out next to um I was working out next to Colton Mertens I was working out next to Abigail Domit like we were sharing a barbell in the warm-up area um it's an amazing thing and it creates this like we're definitely we believe in aspiration we believe in the pursuit of Beto we believe in challenging yourself to to to go and take the next step and and reach the next phase and I think the elite athletes and the incredible stuff that you guys do is a core part of that so it's a really important piece for us as well as the mass participation side if you don't mind me asking how are you mind are you how are you managing the media side because uh right now obviously the within kind of like the high rock space there's probably been their struggles with um getting it to a point now i think it's the best it's ever been the live stream but at like a regular competition you can't track apart from you can't really watch anyone or anything like that will you be able to will you be streaming like the the best athletes yeah the sport or is that not a thing yet so at the moment we're not um and part of that is i'm sure you probably remember this in the early phases of high rocks like we we took some dips into streaming earlier on that weren't done to a super high level and now that product from Hyrox is world-class TV standard coverage as good as anything you could hope to see.

50:02That takes a lot of time to get to and until we can produce something that we're really confident is world class then we're more focused on the event execution. We've invested really heavily into tech our um scoring system our live updates on the leaderboard make it really easy to be able to track people um we will at some point stream um but it's not something that we would do until we're confident that what we put out is absolutely world class i love it and then uh sponsors on board sponsors at the moment who are the biggest brands that's uh kind of working yeah um so so rogue um obviously um are our foundational partner all of the equipment and i can't speak highly enough of Bill and Katie Henniger, who have been an amazing partner in launching this and in taking it to where it is so far.

50:54Pliability, who obviously are right here. So shout out Scott. Pliability came on board very early on and have been a great supporter in what we do, both in terms of their product, but also how they've activated their events. They've done some really cool stuff. Scott's a technical wizard. So it's been great to have them on board. We have Grenade, who we have a global partnership with. They'll be activating, activated super well in London. They're expanding into North America. So they've got a bunch of athletes and yeah, they'll be with us in Miami. Reebok, who are our footwear and apparel partner for London.

51:40They're an amazing brand. obviously have a great kind of pedigree in the space and we're really excited for for that relationship and that partnership um the sponsorship space is really exciting for us i think we talked about it before like in the in the industry in the spectrum of fitness because high rocks has become so large and because we have christian and mo invested in us we have a strategic partnership with high rocks we have no interest in stepping into that high rock space and for brands at the moment there is a bit of a like one size fits or okay hybrid fitness racing and we try and get a high rocks and if we can't get high rocks we go to one of x number competitors which are at a much smaller scale and maybe doing a little bit more strength or a little bit more running or a little bit less running or like a slight variation on what they do but it's still kind of that same consumer in producing this product which takes all of the incredible stuff that irox does and applies it into this new industry and this new demographic and this new consumer it's then been an amazing space to then go and speak to brands about because we're not shipping the same consumer we're not shipping the same person over and over again we're saying okay there is this other community of super dedicated super boarding consumers for whom fitness is an absolute core part their life that disposable income and discretionary spend is super high um and so yeah it's a it's a really interesting look we're two events in um and 27 will be our first kind of full season but um we will bring some brands into this kind of crossfit um this crossfit more strength and conditioning world uh that haven't been in this space before um and obviously you can just see the type of partnerships that high rocks are signing now with amazon and lexus and these like core mainstream brands um and that's a big part of what we have to do is take this product take this um take this this crossfit methodology and consumer and bring them as into the mainstream and kind of there's not a stigma around it but there's maybe like an accessibility barrier where people kind of look at it and look at what exists in that space and maybe think oh maybe that's not for me and in reality it is the most accessible thing in the world it's infinitely scalable it's so incredibly good for anyone whether you're a 65 year old grandma or whether you're an 18 year old young buck looking to go to the crossfit games like the benefits are everywhere um and so yeah partnerships for us is then a really key part of educating and bringing those brands into the space that maybe haven't been there and with the kind of like education side of it i think hyrox again sorry to keep referring to them but they've done a great job with uh bringing on the whole hyrox 365 and stuff like that yeah um will xenon be either a part of that or will they have their own version where a personal trainer can become a certified xenon instructor or like personal trainer and specialize within that because i know a lot of people out there will be they'll want to become the best athlete that they can be and they'll get addicted to xenon yeah and they'll be searching for the best coaches and stuff like that whereas right now like i wouldn't really know where to go i'd probably just go and get a crossfit coach if i wanted to get good at xenon um is there going to be that in the future potentially yeah so part of the partnership that we've signed with hyrox is collaboration across education as well so obviously um the the 365 program for hyrox is an incredible program it's grown super quickly i think it's 20 000 affiliates now um and and that's really interesting if you look at the um the methodology of of crossfit it's never really existed outside of the affiliate like the affiliate is the the owner operator um place is the only place that it's existed it's never kind of been able to go into kind of the mainstream gyms the chain gyms this sort of stuff and so we've talked a lot internally now about like what are the options to be able to look at that functional fitness area which is in the gym group which is in third space which is in an everlast or something and say okay how could we actually help them help them to take that area which maybe doesn't have a specific use case in the same way that if you go into a high rocks area in a gym it's like okay we're doing high rocks classes we're going to push sleds and we're going to get people ready to race xenon because it then offers this competition at the end of it offers that same opportunity as well um still still to finalize exactly how we how we execute on that but yeah there's definitely huge amounts of opportunity within that world.

56:48I'm really excited about that because one of my early roles like within Hyrox was I was a master trainer and we I remember we went round talking to gym owners and this was back in the day when no one knew what Hyrox was yeah they just maybe like signed up to it and they basically they had to send their personal trainers or coaches that were going to be coaching hyrox classes yeah to us and we basically explained what the best like hyrox technique was how to train for the classes like how to program classes basically just giving them so much knowledge on hyrox and to do it properly but one of the sectors was how you can profit and make a business off hyrox yeah which i assume there's going to be a lot of people and it's going to be an exciting opportunity because people will be able to do that off xenon as well by being like say certified xenon coaches by potentially running xenon classes which i think that's obviously going to be the future if you've got an event people need to train for it so there's going to be advertisements of xenon classes and stuff like that and so i think it's a really exciting opportunity for people especially if they're getting early yeah no 100 i think that like you said it's when you have a competition when you have something to drive people towards that then you can create specific training around it creates that opportunity for a gym and look we don't want to be in a place and obviously we're not going in we're not going to suddenly open xenom affiliates or anything like that but there is going to be a huge opportunity for gym owners for uh facility owners around the sport to be able to capitalize on then the interest that we generate and then Will Xenom eventually look to be testing their top tier athletes, like drug testing and things like that?

58:38Yeah, absolutely. I think in exactly the same way that as you progress a sport like this, you have to really quickly move towards the industry standards of drug testing and of clean sport. And that has to be the absolute ideal. I think that Hyrox has moved in a really an incredible direction. If you look at the random tests that were happening at pro races over the last couple of weeks and the widening of the net in that regards. It's a constantly evolving field. But yeah, absolutely. No, it's incredible. And like, obviously, I've done research into this and it's so expensive on the behalf of the business as well to get that testing.

59:24So good on you that you guys are kind of like looking to invest in that as soon as you can with that. Because I know, like say, how expensive it is to test, third-party testing, to come in and do it. Harrods have done a great job. But yeah, it's good to see that, you know, we're keeping the sport clean. Yeah, absolutely. Look, I think you interviewed Mo before. and Mo obviously has been at the top of an Olympic sport and has been fundamental in shaping the High Rock sport. And yeah, I think if I said anything other than that, he'd come find me. Do you, at the moment, are there certain role models within the Xenom space that people can kind of look up to?

1:00:12I'd say in the High Rock space, your OGs would be Hunter McIntyre, Meg Jacoby. I know obviously you're very early on within kind of like building out Xenon, but do you feel like there are going to be kind of like faces of the sport like that? Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, our current champions, our current world record holders, Abigail Domit and Jack Farlow, two incredible athletes. We had Siria Meha, who was in London, came very close to breaking the overall world record. And it's a really interesting, as we grow this sport, it works really well from a sporting perspective, because if you come in and you know 8 ,287 points, okay, that's what I need to beat.

1:00:58And this is exactly how decathlon works. you sit with the with the tables because every second and every rep in xenom has a point value to it so you can know okay abigail got this many points and she got these results for me to beat her i need to get one more point than her but i don't necessarily need to get the same results as because if I'm a world, world, world-class runner and skier, maybe I can give up some points on a power output pace thing, but I can really push the endurance workout and I can pick the points up. So you can come in with a game plan to the weekend of, I know exactly what I need to get, and then I just need to execute over the course of the weekend.

1:01:50As we grow the sport, it creates such amazing opportunities for storytelling so for example in dallas abigail domit who won emily rolf was also competing at the end of the first day they had something like four points between them so they had different results over the course of the over the course of the weekend but they had four points between them and it was super super close and you could see the you could see the points going up and down over the course of uh over the course of the weekend yeah so those athletes will 100 become yeah, faces and names for us. And I think where we're really excited and I think it's kind of common knowledge is one of the, not one of the challenges, but one of the things that we have to do and what Hyrox has done incredibly well is make sport cool, is make it social media friendly, make it attractive, make it very consumable.

1:02:45At the moment, the biggest consumer base for CrossFit is me. I'm 35. it's the 35 40 45 year old who has been following along for the last 20 years and loved it when it first came out and loved the documentaries and loved the rich ronin and loved matt fraser where we now have to look at is where is the incredible 16 year old 18 year old 20 year old who is going to be the next generation for us and you obviously have those people now coming through in the hybrid fitness racing space and so a big focus for us will be how do we find those people and how do we encourage them into our sport as well?

1:03:24Yeah. Did you kind of like go and scout people from other sports? Because it's really interesting. Like you say, if you get in it earlier, then you're probably going to be a better athlete. And you can see now people that potentially are coming second and third in endurance sports are now probably fancying the chances at, say, for example, a high rocks. And they're moving into it. Whereas in the future, you will have high rocks athletes that have only ever been high rocks athletes. Whereas right now, and I hope people don't mind me saying this, but it's kind of like a failed athlete sport. Like in terms of the top level, if you look at the top athletes, they're all from other sports.

1:04:02And when I say failed athletes, they're coming second, they're coming third in championships or whatever. But they're not just getting that top spot, if that makes sense. And they're coming in and they're trying to look with something else. And you can see that with Alexander Ronkofit with swimming. You can see it with... Or Alissa. Yeah. yeah or chalibar trail with cycling like they've been in pro pro teams and stuff like that but they've come to high rocks and they've just blown away the competition which uh is incredible to see but again you're always going to have that when a new sport comes around yeah like again xenon no one could have trained their life for xenon at this point because it wasn't a thing a couple of years ago yeah so like that you're definitely gonna have that transition but getting them younger people in and kind of i don't know probably backing them and storytelling as well i think that's like one of the big things within hyrox which is pretty cool you can now and with other sports whether it's tour de france whether it's it's other things there's so much content out there now where you can actually follow a journey of whether either someone's doing it personally and and they're documenting it on youtube and they they're documenting their rise their the failures their successes and you're kind of can be invested in their journey yeah or whether it's done by a professional agency where it's kind of like the tour de france and you can unchained where you can actually watch the documentary yeah on netflix and stuff like that but i think it's so important to have that now because that's how people like feel for the sport and like they become they can become fans of the sport without even ever doing it as well they can just like actually yeah shit these athletes because xenom athletes are going to be top tier athletes they're going to be so admirable, like you say, to, to do the, the 10 different workouts.

1:05:48They can't just be good at one thing. They've got to be really, really good at a lot of things. And that's going to be so aspirable. And I think, uh, it's going to be, I'd want to watch someone who was training for that. I'd want to document that and look at, um, their documentary. So hopefully that happens. Yeah, no, I'm sure it will. I think, look, it's, it's the way the industry has moved. If you look at when CrossFit first really came into prominence and when people really were getting excited about it you had the Netflix documentaries but that was a different world it was much more kind of unipolar in terms of you had it was already fragmenting the media system like it wasn't just cable tv it wasn't just what was on the BBC it was okay what's on Netflix now it's not even a case of you need to be on Netflix now it's a case of everyone is a producer everyone's a documentarian everyone can produce their own content and so it's not even sport like if you look at like George and represent and how good that storytelling is behind the scenes building the brand giving people this human face to an entity to a business to a sporting journey and there's already a really strong history of that there's a great independent media community around the CrossFit space and And yeah, we definitely will continue to see that.

1:07:06I mean, people like, I give a shout out to Peter White from Coffee Pods and Wads. He's come to the first two events for us. He's done amazing storytelling at both of those. And there is this really, at times, interesting community in the CrossFit space, but really strong. So yeah, we'll 100 % see more of that and yeah, more athlete storytelling. And that's our job. Our job is in the same way that for Christian and Mo, their job is to create the platform for guys like you to be able to create a career in, to be able to create amazing content, to be able to create interest from sponsors, to be able to make something that as many people as possible care about.

1:07:45That's the same job we have in Xenom is to create a platform that gives other people then the opportunity to grow and succeed and create careers in their own rights. i'm interested to know what has been the biggest struggle for you so far in this whole journey of creating xenon um so we already had a business um before this we also have twins we have two and a half year old twins which is um two and a half is exactly the age when they start saying no um so i would say there's been a certain amount of um a juggling and i give a huge thanks to my wife for giving me the time to go and fly all over the place and take time out from, yeah, what's probably the hardest bit of parenting.

1:08:30Yeah, that's definitely been a challenge, but also something that has worked well. Look, the other part of it is this is brand new. And we're in exactly the same position we were in eight years ago with High Rocks, where we're going and knocking on the door of people. And eight years ago, it was, hey, running plus functional fitness. And I can't tell you the number of people that were like, too much running. No one's ever going to want to do that. Um, we're in not exactly the same position, but we're in the same place now of we're explaining a brand new concept and we are explaining, we are predicting a world that doesn't exist yet.

1:09:11We are doing the same job that Christian did eight years ago of wrapping the world around us and creating this future. And that's always the first 12 months of that is always going to be the hardest bit of it and the first three to five events. But we can see already like the feedback that we get from the athletes who are competing, the unbelievable, just the occasion that we've created for these people when they come and compete, we already know. This will give us, yeah, give us another 12 months. I always say for anyone that's never experienced like a sporting event, like they're so easy to criticize something like for example, high rocks, but then they go to a venue and they're like, wow, I get it.

1:10:01Yeah. A hundred percent. But from the outside, it is very hard to get. And even myself, I've never been to a Xenob. I'd love to come to one because I believe in it. I believe it's going to work. And I think it's, it's something like I say that the sports industry needs. 100 % for sure what are a couple of the kind of maybe negative comments people say when you you try and persuade them to get on board so say for example a first one I've I've said oh have you heard about this enum and the first comment might be oh it's too complex for me it's got the first workouts a snatch I don't want to snatch and it's like that that's do you know that that's the first thing that they say i mean i'd say like if your son came and asked you to put him over your head how would you do it yeah pick him up and you'd go like that yeah you've done a snatch like it's you're talking about a very basic fundamental human movement the ability to pick something up off the floor and put it over your head no one's expecting you to turn up and do a squat snatch and and squat snatch 100 kilos like you get points for lifting the bar for getting the barbell over your head there is a movement that unless you have a severe uh a severe um hindrance from an injury you pretty much should be able to do and ultimately everything is scalable like everything we do is a functional movement that is a fundamental movement pattern within human biology and that can be scaled to a level where you can do it and it doesn't matter who you are we will find a way for you to be able to to come and do this thing i love that i love that and i think you've got that solution for for any question someone asks um yeah i love it i love that it's uh indoors do you know there's not many factors that can can change like you turn up to a competition and most of the factors are not variable anymore like you know what the workouts are you know that it's indoor you know that it's going to be a good environment you know that you're within your weight time you're going to be able to have access to food vendors um you're going to be able to carb up you're going to have time you know exactly how the minimum time that you've got between workouts like it's very plannable yeah and people can come to these events prepared if they're willing to dedicate the time but again it's also like like you said the the pinnacle of test testing fitness yeah in my eyes look we benefit hugely from the experience that hyros has had over the last eight years like we we know a lot of things that work well we know a lot of things that don't work well which really help us in terms of building the infrastructure for for this thing um and avoiding some of the pitfalls that potentially um could be there these things are very complex to organize you're shipping hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of steel all over the world and you're um booking big venues and things are bonds that go wrong right like there's a lot going on um there's a reason why not that many people do these things at this kind of scale um but we benefit a lot from yeah that that kind of learned experience already well i feel like you're off to a great start my final question would be where do you see this event being in 10 years time 10 years time okay people normally say like two or three 10 years time um look we we've done the the research and the work and believe that there are yeah there's a there's a very there's a very definitive path towards 40 to 60 events per year all over the world all over the world um with a really vibrant um mass participation side to it and an elite competition as well that is attracting best in the world to come and compete in it um all documented for the elite side yeah yeah absolutely yeah yeah absolutely down the the down the route that will be familiar to many people already um and ultimately that when people think about the sport of fitness and they think about what the what the options are available to them they look and they say okay there's this spectrum and there's high rocks here and there's xenom here and they're bouncing around between the two and whatever they whatever they want to come and do if they want to come and have world-class, best-in-class experience, those are the two kind of poles of the fitness world.

1:14:33Incredible. I think it's going to be a huge success, and I'm already excited to give it a go. Absolutely. Even if it's one of the scaled-back competitions, I'd love to give it a go. Yeah. I'd love to come to the next one. Miami, December. Miami, come on. Let's do it. Thank you. Awesome. Jake, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thank you, Keith.