Anxiety, Art, and Appetizers | Inside Jeremy Fall's Creative Journey

28:42If there was one time I raised money and the next morning I woke up like scared to death, like anxious because I wasn't 100 % confident in the idea. And so I literally just returned the money and shut down the idea. Just because I didn't, at that moment, I didn't think it would succeed. And that takes a lot of intelligence though to do that and be able to identify certain things. It's better than doing that than a lot of people would have just tried because it's not their money. I can't do that. I can't do that. And I think this is somewhat related. This reminds me of your, a lot of the book you discuss your anxiety.

29:16And I've had this all my life, since I was a kid, just super anxious all its time. Even at those moments when I'm happy, Like it's a, as you know, it's like almost a biological thing or it is a biological thing. And, you know, maybe you could talk about when you first realized this anxiety that you had was something you have to treat. Yeah, you know, I had anxiety my whole life. I didn't know what it actually was. So I didn't know I had to treat it. And then I found out I had anxiety in like my early 20s, that I found an anxiety disorder in my mid 20s, just by like self-diagnosis, right? Like nothing professional.

29:52and then as i got excuse me to my early 30s it just it started becoming more and more crippling right so my whole thing with that is you know i i really decided to work on it i would say in my well when i was 30 or late yeah or about turn 30 so i would you know i used to drive i'd get really anxious i'd see a green light i'd be panicked i would turn yellow i saw yellow I'd be trying to turn red. It was just constant shit was just thrown at me all the time, anxiety. And, you know, when it's all you know, one, you don't realize the extent of it. You don't know what life can be without it. And then, two, it just seems like the idea of rewiring your brain to live completely differently and think differently, it's a lot more intimidating than it sounds, right?

30:40And you don't know what you don't know, so you don't know what's on the other side. I hadn't also understood that, you know, my whole thing was I had to fear. I'm going to lose my creativity. I'm going to lose my drive and lose everything. But then I found out that you just, you lose the spiral. You don't lose the anxious thoughts. I learned that through therapy and then through psychiatry. And then I decided to get medicated for it. But I was very anti-medication before. I was like, this is going to ruin my creativity. I'm going to lose my personality. I actually never felt more like myself after I got on medication.

31:12And, you know, I was lucky that my therapist, my psychiatrist, were two people that weren't pushing me to medicate. You know, at first they were like, I don't know if you even need it. And then as time passed, realized more and more that I needed it. And I'm on a very high dose of Lexapro now. But, you know, I'm also six foot seven, right? So like, it makes sense. But I, you know, I would, I would, I was in the shower once. There was something that was bothering me, like for the last week. And I was in the shower and I thought about it. And I was just like, I thought about it. And then I was like, okay, whatever.

31:47And I realized in that moment, I was like, holy shit. There's like, like, if you think of it, like I would go have the anxious thought. And then I would shoot down into a spiral. Now I just had the anxious thought. And it kind of just vanished in the back of my head. and that was the weirdest feeling because it was something like that was bothering me every day and that was the time where I think the medication started kicking in because it takes six weeks a lot of time for it to fully kick in so from there it was just like did you ever try like Xanax or Klonopin instead of Lexapro yeah so I had tried yes Xanax is not something you can take every day but yes I had but Klonopin is like the daily you can take clonipin every day yeah that sounds but tense but it's a very addictive drug yeah yeah i was gonna say i i had had xanax before for like surgery and stuff like that and like it definitely helps but i'm a lot i'm i'm i'm basically hot right lexapro doesn't make you hot it's just it's like a supplement you know like like the way you take vitamin c like you don't feel the vitamin c but it's just there working it's thing in the background um i have no problem taking lexapro every day for the rest of my life.

32:59You know, there are a lot of these things with pharmaceuticals being addictive and whatnot. Obviously, that's like a very serious thing. I think that taking a pill that helps your anxiety that, you know, you essentially, and look, I'm not a doctor. So by no means am I like pushing medication. I think it worked for me. Everyone has their own journey. I know people who can meditate. I wish I could meditate. I can't. Or I don't think I can as at this moment. But with that said, like, to me, if it helps and it isn't detrimental, if the positive really outweighs the theoretical negative, then for me, it's worth it, right?

33:37It's just like, am I going to pop a Klonopin or Xanax every day? No, because that's a more dangerous, I actually didn't even know that Klonopin is something you could take daily. By the way, I just found this out right now with you. But like that, it's obviously like, it's not as recommended. Like Lexapro is really like one of the, or Zoloft or whatever, is one of the more mild ones, you could say. I guess. Is it even mild? You know, I don't know. Like I, in 2010, I was both going broke or close to going broke and super anxious to the point where I couldn't function at all. Like I was just up all night, like the guy from A Beautiful Mind writing numbers down and trying to figure out if I was going to go broke or not.

34:20And my doctor prescribed Klonopin and it was both the best and worst thing because it like blocks anxious thoughts like you almost can't think an anxious thought and so i was able to be productive again but it's so addictive and it is long-term detrimental that you know you have to be very careful so you know lexapro is is definitely a different family of drugs are you still on clodpin i'm still weaning off of i mean i basically stopped my anxiety at a very high dose in 2010. And it's taken like a decade or more to wean off from it. Wow. Like it's dangerous to get off it too fast. At least that's what I had experienced was when I tried to get off too fast, it's almost worse than never having, it is definitely worse than never having had taken it.

35:07That's right, Vern. Like you could have seizures, the whole thing. Yeah. Wow. So, but, and also there's, there's, there's long-term like side effects that we'll see if I experience, but it's not a, it shouldn't be a long-term solution for anybody. I think, you know, again, not being a doctor as well, but it was a very good short-term solution. I'll say that, but long-term, it's not. Ten years is, having to wait off, that's, I mean, I applaud you for that. That's courageous to wait off over that long. No matter how small I get the dosage, like every six months I kind of cut the dosage in half. No matter how small I get it, if I ever try to just zero it, I start getting all the side effects immediately.

35:48So it's horrible. Wow. Wow. And I haven't really talked about it, actually. So it's, you know, it's, it's, and I can see this too. Like I'm, after this podcast, I'm meeting my daughter who's about to graduate college and she seems to have inherited my anxiety. And she's a very happy person, except when I can see those moments of anxiety happen. And it's like almost, you know, a biological thing. or again, it probably is a biological thing because she inherited exactly what I had. No, absolutely. I mean, look, I don't know if you have an addictive personality as well, but obviously that plays a factor too.

36:28I mean, I have one, it's in my genes. So I mean, that also always got to be careful of like any sort of things like that. You know, just have you tried microdosing mushrooms? I haven't. And a lot of people recommend that to me. One friend of mine, who's been on this podcast many times, has totally recommended it in every possible way. And many well-known people have publicly... Tim Ferriss is a big advocate of microdosing. A lot of people are well-known advocates of microdosing, and I should try that. Yeah, I'm a big fan of it. I'm someone who had a cannabis edible when I was like 21 and almost went to the hospital because I had a meltdown, so never touched weed or anything.

37:12I'm very sensitive to those kinds of things and I can microdose mushrooms so that's when you know it's like you know for me it works no but I could the thing I have says every two or three days but I absolutely could every day it doesn't slow down my belly function to be honest my tolerance is very high because I'm on Lexapro so I know it like reduces the effect of it They're so necessary to reduce the effect of it. But it does work, though, and it's in the back of your head. It's not like you take it and then you're like, in Xanax, you feel it hit, right? But mushrooms are just kind of like in the back of your head.

37:57It's kind of like Lex from the sense that you don't feel high from it, but it's just there doing its job.

38:19I'm curious, like how much of the anxiety you think might also be related to your choice of what to do in life, like being involved in the nightlife. And like you mentioned one of your early ventures, the King Eddie Saloon, the downtown LA bar that you - Skid Row, yeah. Yeah, that you reopened. That sounded like a pretty stressful experience. You mentioned early on in that um two people who you worked with actually committed suicide like what what was happening yeah i mean you know the nightlife world can be very depressing like bars i mean it's late hours it's alcohol like you talk you know i actually grew up right off of skid row so i had gone back there it was very close where i grew up this bar like very like blocks away right so it was cool i was like oh i'm back where i was and then i was kind of like this is like this is shit dude like this it's it's sad it's you know i came back i restored the bar people were writing rest in peace jeremy fall on the walls like by the way i just i just want to interrupt there r.i.p jeremy um fall that would be a great name for a restaurant too as soon as i saw that in the book i thought huh he should i wonder why if he thought about making that the name of the restaurant and leaving that graffiti up i mean there's a lot of people I'm sure that dislike me out there that would go to that place.

39:41But yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it was, I think it was definitely very hard on the psyche. You know, a lot of these, again, late shifts, like, it's very dark, right? It's dark, drinking, people are depressed. Like, there's a lot of these, like, bars, these local dive bars, especially, that people, that I think it really rubs off on you, right? Like, from the second you, like, park your car and walk down the street. And it was a very sad environment. Yeah, two of the employees committed suicide very closely apart. And then my business partner, Jared, committed suicide. Years later, we weren't partners anymore, but a few years ago, committed suicide.

40:24It's a world that will really eat you alive. Even in restaurants, I mean, I have been on the cover of magazines. I have been, again, on TV. and all these things. And regardless, and even like with the rise of the celebrity chef, the options are really praise or you're treated like absolute shit, right? Unfortunately, you're treated like shit more often than not, right? And that's something I never tolerated in any of my places, especially now with my staff. Like I would take someone to treat me like shit over anyone else really that's ever worked for me. But there's still this idea that you're a servant.

41:07I am there. I'm paying. You're here to serve me. I'm the only person that matters in this restaurant. I know better than you. If this is not good, this dish is not good. It's not to my liking. It's just bad. There's a lot of this mentality that weighs you down, especially in high-intensity environment where you're moving around and there's a high. I can't name a lot of people that leave a restaurant shift or a bar shift and aren't completely awake when they leave, right? This adrenaline, like, so it takes a lot of you, you know, you do work weird hours when you're asleep, people are awake and vice versa.

41:44And like, you know, you don't have weekends, weekends, your busy time, you know, it's just like, it's a very weird way of living. It's very passion driven, right? And I'm talking about like when this is your career, not when you're a wealthy attorney and you have a restaurant as an investment. I don't know why you didn't run this restaurant, but, you know, as you have that as a, as a hobby or a passion. That's different. When it's your career, no matter what side of it you are, and obviously people tend to... Like I said, the praising side tends to increase. If you're on TV and stuff, that's just human nature.

42:16But it's a very exhausting career. I have friends of mine. I was talking to a friend of mine who's a very known chef, and he was just like, I'm going to be on the road until I'm fucking 70. like 75 like checking on the restaurants working the line and it's like even you're successful in just straight culinary in terms of just straight restaurants like there's not enough money there's money where you can live well but there's not enough money that you can put away some massive retirement to then be able to stop early right and retire that's why all these chefs go for a lot of cv consumer package like products are you know great revenue stream like that's what a lot of them end up going to that because you become more, you go into the branding business and not the restaurant business anymore.

43:05You know, it's a different world. So that's what I mean is that could that up the chances of an anxiety disorder triggering being in that sort of business as opposed to, let's say, being a lawyer where, of course, that's a big anxious sort of business, but there's a path. There's a well-known, a well-trodden path. You work a lot of hours, you take out a lot of cases, you make partner, and then you ease into retirement. Yeah, I think everyone in the business has had a moment where they've done something that's not themselves. Like there is a time where I was throwing pans and knives at my like, and I've, and it made its way across to the other, to the other restaurants, because every general manager messaged me and was like, like, are you okay?

43:47Because like, it wasn't something that I would do. Like, I've, I've, I've always been pretty strict. And I like things done a certain way. but I'm like I've never been like one to scream, one to throw shit like that's just not the way I've done things ever and it was just like a really specific situation where I just lost my mind in this was before I was my other kid too but I lost my mind because I had asked for things done multiple times it was really important and essentially some of the team members were rude to one of my other employees like extremely rude and then when I came in, they were taking selfies instead of like working like their own asses.

44:27It was like an extreme case, right? And I just like lost my shit. I started throwing shit. No HR complaint because it was so unlikely. No one even filed anything. It was just like shit. For Jeremy to do that, we fucked up badly. You know, one thing that's really fascinating with what you do is that with your personal brand, it's not like just being a chef. Like take Wolfgang Puck. We know he's a chef. We know he's a chef more than we know he's a restaurateur. Like he's a chef's chef. And, you know, so he brands that in various ways. Could sell cookbooks, could sell products, could sell sauce, whatever.

45:06And, but you've taken that brand in a different direction, which is it's almost like food and being, having a restaurant is an outlet for your creativity. Oh, but here's another outlet doing NFTs. Here's another outlet. Like what is this record label deal you just worked on? Yeah, so it's funny because all of it has a food through line, whether it was obvious or not. So the record label, you know, working, we actually, it's called Probably Label. So I co-owned the record label with Warner Records. And our last project is we dropped a pizza concept pop-up with Adidas called Probably Pizza. And it was in New York and we did branded boxes.

45:47Our thing was collected. It's very much in the collector mentality situation. But I basically, I use food as a platform for creativity, for conversation. And so it's something universal. Everyone eats. So for me, it's, I'm going to use this to do whatever I want, really. And from there, kind of rewrite the rules. My last restaurant, Mixtape, was a collaboration. was like my mixtape, like how a musician would do it in restaurant form. I had dishes that featured artists that collaborate on. You know, I had Quincy Jones, a collaborator, Vic Mensa, Jaden Smith at the time, Brandon Boyd from Incubus, Serge Tankion from System of a Down.

46:31Like I took a bunch of different people together that you wouldn't expect. And they all did things they wouldn't normally do. A lot of them sketched, drew, paint. Serge did like a statue of a recycled Yamaha keyboard into a lamp and i it was when you walked in the way i'm describing it is not what you would expect you expect like this like all this random shit but we integrate into the decor where it was like you're peeling layers to an onion you'll be eating and be like what is that wait what's that quincy jones like the musician and you walk around it's like it would create conversation with um the servers it was really layering the experience as much as possible um and i like to do things like that that are different.

47:13A lot of things have not necessarily been successful or haven't been understood or people, but they've always moved it forward. I remember there was this, I think it was the Hollywood Reporter that said that my larkish sensibility was both that some people found it grating and some people found it like, it was some really hilarious lingo. It was like some people find it endearing and some find it grating or something like that. It's interesting to even do collaborations with Quincy Jones in a restaurant type of atmosphere? What was that collaboration? Or what was a specific example of one of these collaborations?

47:53Quincy actually did a sketch, a drawing that was hung up on the wall. It was pretty simple. It was a cool sketch. I did a lot of... They all did something different. A lot of it was art, though, that we'd use as decor. Did anyone suggest a recipe? Yeah, I had some artists that were... Toki Monster actually had a Korean collaboration influence on one of the dishes. So yeah, so I had like actual features on the dishes, which was cool. Like I want... People are like, oh, I don't know how to cook. I'm like, I don't care. Give me ideas. Like that's like... That's the whole point is to just kind of fuck around.

48:28But it's funny because for Nighthawk, when I first opened it, I got shit on. I got like praise and shit on. I got like... I was getting like dubbed in Japanese and then like Vogue, like all these different things. But I got a lot of people that are like, is this or there's articles or like, is this a restaurant? Is this a bar? It can't make up its mind. And I really realized, I was like, damn, the industry is really fucking narrow-minded. Like food is like, food is the industry that lacks the most innovation in all of culture. We're making flying cars and like music went from like, to sets, cassettes to CDs to streaming and fashion evolves faster.

49:03It's just like, and food is, it's, it's the same shit over and over again. And like this was like, when I dropped Nighthawk, all of LA was kale salads, hamachi crudos, charred octavos. Every menu was the same. It was like, we have craft beer. We have an old fashioned with almonds. We have an old fashioned with walnuts. It was the same shit every time. And I was like, cool, I'm going to drop carbs and I'm going to do spike cereal milk. I'm going to do breakfast for dinner. And then it got praise and shit on. The same week I got was like, I think it was LA Weekly that was like, this is, what is this?

49:35This is ridiculous. Jeremy must be a pothead, this whole thing that was literally in this article. I got best restaurant in America the exact same week. And then I ran into the writer at an event. And then she was like, oh, hey, like whatever. Like, well, obviously. And then I was just, I like show the article up and I have two phones. So I showed the article up and I showed the other thing. And then I just did answer it and that was it. And I was just like, I don't mind criticism. I don't mind, I actually enjoy it. I like, I love being proved wrong, proven wrong, sorry. because it teaches me how much I have to learn.

50:09And I'm stubborn in a lot of ways, but when it comes to learning and growth, I love to be proven wrong. But I like when there's backing and educated explanations and it's not just pointing at a business because you didn't like it or it wasn't what you expected. and then you have this platform to bash businesses when it's already hard enough. And I was lucky to be on the good side of it, the side that got pressed, the side that I had a fault. I have a fault or anything. I look at it for the people that don't and start such a hard industry. And that takes a hit. People don't realize how Yelp reviews, how much that affects restaurants.

50:57When there's a bad Yelp review, the entire restaurant is talking about it. All the employees are like, did you see that one star? like it really fucks with us like more than people realize you know so you grow thicker skin over time but you know i think that that that stuff always upset me definitely because you know i would take it personally when it was like not constructive yeah and you know the interesting thing though with nighthawk is that and and this is relates to what you said earlier that the rest we can have flying cars but the rest of our industry is like the same old thing that also leaves room for a lot of innovation, which is what you did.

51:32Like the concept of, you have this concept in the book, which I like a lot, and I've called it something else in the past, but you call it paper clipping. The idea of taking two good ideas and combining them to create a perhaps better idea or at least interesting attempt. I call it idea sex, where you take breakfast food and put it at dinner, or let's, you know, take a sushi and put it inside a burrito and it's a sushi rita or whatever and i like how you ran with that in the food space and and it gives you kind of this license for creativity that that is unique and and welcome in the in the food industry yeah you know it's it's so it's welcome there's so i always was careful to not get into the hot cheeto cover donut shit like that was just like the the unnecessary we're gonna force this for viral content like like it was a thing like now i'm kind of like okay we don't have to do that you know and i actually was part of starting the crazy cereal trend like after we launched it like we were getting knocked off all over the world so so i was a part of that problem to a certain extent but not the same way like everything we always made everything from scratch we were always like my chefs were all like very came from fine dining right like that was always like the way we went.

52:49So it was different whether you realize it was subtle, you know, so, so yeah, that, you know, to me, I think innovation doesn't have to be completely reinventing the wheel. You know, I think where it's not welcome in food, contrary to popular belief is like people self-proclaimed foodies, as much as I hate that word, all those people, they're going to be like, oh yeah, I went to this restaurant. They had like this crazy dish, et cetera. I had the chicken and the Caesar salad. Like it's a lot of times you have to have those to make it's it's just it's singles for music right it's like you have the commercial radio hit and then you can do the stuff you actually want to release right but you know i you always need to have those hits like you always do and the problem is it's such an expensive endeavor like if a musician wants to do this like very dark album like brian jones from the stones did like a moroccan album that like was completely unsuccessful but who cares because he could and he could do it.

53:47I'm not in a position where I can go into some weird-ass restaurant like today, sign a lease. It's going to cost$20 ,000 to$30 ,000 a month in Los Angeles. Put people's jobs on the line. Run a$40 ,000,$50 ,000 a month payroll. You just can't. It's too capital intensive before you even open the doors. The margins are very low. I always tell people this. I'm like, food does not cost what it should. I know the numbers. And sometimes people are like, wow, this place is expensive. And I'm like, sure, it is. But I'm telling you what it costs. And it's not, they're not, you know, it's not like they're raking in millions of dollars in profit.

54:26Like, by the time you get food, people don't realize like, oh, well, I don't understand. Like, I can buy a button. I can buy this, you know, and make it at home. It's like, well, first of all, you should do that. But second of all, there's so much overhead. Line cooks, chefs, before it gets to your plate, there's so much labor, so many things that go into it. And they're making it times 200, 300 a day when it's successful. So people, food does not cost what it should cost. And when I'm saying this, I'm saying this from a restaurant experience. I think that a lot of times people don't realize that.

55:02I think that food obviously is a means of survival. and should not, and there should be options that are affordable. Like everyone needs to be able to eat. But you're on this like in between where, you know, these two things need to coexist. And I think the standard of like what food should cost is too democratized for people to understand because they don't have context where they're like, I can get a bowl of pasta here and a bowl of pasta here. It should cost the same thing. It's like, it's very different, right? So there's so much context and lack of understanding of how a lot of these operations work.

55:35So that's where I disagree, where food doesn't welcome that much innovation. It does if you, James, are coming to my house. I'm like, I'm going to try this shit and cook it. But if I were to try to commercialize it, it's hard. And if I showed you the numbers as an angel investor, you would be like, fuck that. We're not trying this. I believe you. Like I've been in, not in that industry like you have, obviously, but I've been, I've looked into that industry and it is a very difficult business, which is why brand is so important. Cause, uh, you want, have to want, you have to have people want to go to your restaurant, not just for the food, but for many reasons they have the, the more reasons they have for wanting to go to your restaurant, essentially the better it is for the, for the business in a lot of ways, not just pricing, but recurring revenues and so on.

56:28So it's a tough business. And it's very hard. But again, that's why it's great how you've been able to take your personal branding in this industry and now get the record label, do something with CNN. Whether or not it's profitable is not as important as the experience and building the brand, extending the story into all these other outlets. And that's really good advice for people to observe and see how you work with it. But I'm curious on the one thing about the anxiety disorder that I'm always curious about is when do you know the difference between something's a disorder and something's just anxiety?

57:09Like, again, you're in a very anxious type of business, the nightlife, the restaurant business. What you just described was almost an anxiety-inducing kind of having a discussion about pricing with customers. And, you know, that will raise the anxiety of anybody. So how do you know when something goes from just a lot of anxiety to disorder? Yeah, that's a great question. I think it's when it starts having a negative impact on your overall life outside the situations that directly give you anxiety, right? So to explain, if it's like, oh, I'm anxious because I'm figuring out prices, that's one thing.

57:51If it's, I'm sitting at home on the couch and have anxious, I feel anxious, and I'm not sure why, I think that's a disorder. I was feeling anxious for no reason. And then it was accentuated with reasons, right? So driving and thinking the light's going to go yellow, there was really no, I mean, sure, that's a reason, quote unquote, but there was no really direct correlation as to why I should be panicking if the light is being yellow, considering I've been driving for like 15 years. Jesus, 18 years, 17. So there's no reason that I should be, you know, panicking about stuff like that or anxious.

58:29Like I would be anxious for no reason. Like I'd be like, why am I anxious? And I wouldn't even notice it. People would be like, you okay? And I was like, yeah, why do you think I'm not okay? You know, it's like, it was a very weird thing. Like, you know, so yeah. and how was it affecting your relationships at the time oh my god it was disaster um i shouldn't say like that like that dramatically i had i it was tough for them you know i mean like i definitely especially i've been relationships where the other party was anxious as well so that's always a great combo um but you know i think it's i commend the people that were with me through all that like i owe everyone who's with me friends you know romantic relationships family like you know looking back i'm like fuck like i this is a lot like person trying to build something because it's like blind confidence a little bit of insanity and like build naivete to believe that you're you're literally can do these things better than anyone and like rewrite the rules for like an industry that's existed for centuries and you know there's definitely a lot of blind confidence and naivete i would say and then on top that being anxious that things aren't going to go well and being so anxious that things do go well because there's no room for error and like that's a lot to be around you know that doesn't like scream like netflix and chill and and did you feel like you wanted to write this book because you've gotten through the other side of it?

1:00:04Or is it sort of an ongoing process of dealing with this, you know, anxiety, even though you're taking the medication, you're going to the therapy? You know, do you still find that the battle rages, although it's more moderated down? Yeah, I mean, it's it's interesting. I mean, like it's definitely gotten better now mainly because of medication, right? I mean, I would say that that's definitely been the main thing, but I don't know. I really don't know. I think it's, I don't know. I actually don't know. Yeah, I think it's hard to know because you don't really know what other people are experiencing in terms of anxiety.

1:00:51So you don't know. and obviously again your business industry life in general is anxiety inducing but you don't know what you would be like if you weren't on the medication so it's hard to I agree it's a hard question to answer it definitely attributed to my success for sure it definitely did it still does you know I decided to write the book because I was just at home and I was like I gotta get off of Instagram like really having mental health issues and I came back two months later after I did a post about it and tons of people responded people I did didn't follow me that I didn't follow up celebrities a lot of men and I was like shit like this was needed and I guess it was during a time where the pandemic everyone was home and more focused on having the time to actually respond to these things so it was like that day I decided write the book and then that was it I also can't imagine that sort of going into a pandemic with a bunch of restaurants uh and having your brand around restaurants, every restaurant shut down.

1:01:53I mean, fortunately, there was these bailouts that helped restaurants and restaurant employees and so on. But I'm sure that was a stressful time. I sold my company at the end of 2019. I had no more restaurants by the time we hit the pandemic. So I had gone acquired in 2019. So I had no, I didn't have to deal with any of that. Oh, that's good. So, and so right now, what's your, what are your main things that you're working on? Where, you know, where can people find the latest stuff that you're involved in? Instagram is probably the best thing. Honestly, Instagram, social media, that's where I post all my stuff.

1:02:27You know, I have this like vision, and actually I haven't even talked about this yet, so it's kind of nice, but I have this vision to make organic cool. And like, it has its place in the fitness and the health industry. But there are a lot of things like, you know, I started like taking a burger, for example, and I was like, if I break this up, like there's no reason a burger should be that unhealthy. It's meat, sure. Sauces do not need to, shouldn't be as unhealthy as they are like at all. You know, bread can be fine. Like there's nothing in there that really should be that bad for you. You know, like it's just when you're cooking a patty in its own juices and adding butter and oil and it's canola.

1:03:15Like there's like, just, you know, a lot of those things that are added are bad. So I started thinking about sauces as one of the big things. And I'm, you know, I don't know how much I'm supposed to say, but like, that's essentially what my new thing is, is just kind of recreating some of these hits, giving people that comfort food, but stuff that's not going to kill them. And like doing that as consumer packaged goods and et cetera. Well, what I like about this too, is this relates to your, some of your earliest memories on being involved in food. like when you made a spicy ketchup when you were 12 years old.

1:03:46So that's one of the sauces. Okay, good. And I'm sure you have the Bloody Mary ketchup and things like that. Yeah. It's good to connect your memories of your nostalgia with your reality. And that's what you're doing with this. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'll send you some stuff. I'd love for you to try it and see what it is. It's really cool. So it's, you know, I'm like very obsessed with punk culture and kind of that, you know, punk culture very much mimics this lawless, break the rules, do whatever you want in like a non-cheesy way. But like, I really like that era, what that did to open the doors to a lot of different ideas and music.

1:04:28And there's something about that that I connect to. So that's a huge inspiration for all this food. I feel very much like you're inspired and this is just a gut impression. but not like pure punk, but punk when it merged with both rap and metal, like a Rage Against the Machine. So you even have a chapter, Rage Against the Hype Machine. And earlier in this podcast, you asked, are we allowed to cuss? I'm sure you remember when the BBC asked Rage Against the Machine, hey, do a song, but don't curse. And the entire song, Zach De La Rocha was saying basically, you know, F you, don't tell me, you know, I forget the exact words of F you.

1:05:12I'll do what I want to F you. I'll do it. That's the only verse in the entire song. It was, and actually it was a very melodic song. So it was, it was good, but they're, they're one of my favorite bands. So anyway, Jeremy fall, author of falling upwards. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Your, your books and inspiration. I really love what you're doing and love the way directions you've taken the brand and your book's really inspirational in a lot of different ways in terms of creativity, discussing mental illness and anxiety and discussing your specific businesses. It's very, very inspirational.

1:05:50I encourage people to check it out. Two of my daughters are either waitresses or promoters or have done a mixture of all these different things. I've owned a bar in my life when I owned a comedy club. It was also a bar and it's completely different than owning a nightclub or a restaurant, but I have a sense of the anxiety of the business. And it's just an area that I've always been interested in. So I appreciate you writing about it and coming on the show and discussing the anxiety issues as well.