Civil War 2024?!? | A Conversation with Tucker Max

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1:26Civil War. I'm honestly, I had an Uber driver the other day and he asked me in the middle of the drive, hey do you have your go bag and i'm like what's that and he said well when the civil war starts and then he added and it's going to start any day definitely before the 24 24 election he said you need to have your go bag so wherever you are you can just go right up into the mountains put up your tent get your plasma lights get your your almond butter and seeds and honey and you better learn how to like forage for vegetables and hunt and start a fire. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And he pointed to the passenger seat next to him.

2:10He had a go bag ready in the Uber car. He said it could happen anytime where he just can't, you can't go back to the city. You can't go back to your home because the civil war has started. And I got kind of nervous. I think as I get older, I really don't want the status quo to change that much. And, and, but you know, there's a movie coming out, Civil War, you know, Texas and the federal government are having these conflicts and you're about to hear more about that. So let's get right into it. A few years ago, a guy who's a regular guest on the podcast has been since 2014. I can't believe this is the 10th year I'm doing this, but I love doing it.

2:52But one of my first guests, anyway, he came on in 2020. He said, James, you're hearing it from me now. There's going to be a civil war. And I said, no way, it's impossible. But now it's like in the news. I still don't believe there's going to be any kind of civil war, at least one where people are shooting at each other with guns, which sounds ridiculous to me. But now at least it's in the public discussion. And there's a movie coming out and people are nervous about this upcoming election. So here we go. Tucker Max coming back on the show to explain a little bit more why he predicted this and what he predicts now and what is going to lead up to a potential civil war in 2024.

3:39The conversation didn't make me that happy, but I always prefer to be informed than not informed. So here we go.

3:50This isn't your average business podcast and he's not your average host. This is the James Altucher Show.

4:05How are you doing, Tucker? What's the latest and greatest? I see I follow you on Facebook. You're like killing chickens, eating off the land, homeschooling, the whole thing. Pretty much. Yep, exactly. Yep. so and you're in texas i think it was three years ago that you came on the podcast and said we're going to have a civil war and you said it would start with texas you called out the scenario exactly not only in the real news are people talking about civil war now which is a term i thought i would never hear in my lifetime in the real news but there's even a movie coming out next month called civil war do you want to save this for the podcast you want to start yeah no we're starting we're in oh we're in right now okay yeah um yeah dude i know like i i listen i i don't think it was that hard of a call like when when everything went down with 2020 and the george floyd riots it's like okay clearly there are two complete diametrically opposed views of america that are irreconcilable and you know there's whatever you want to call it the leftist woke view which is really just communism dressed up for the 21st century and then there's the the sort of there's more than two actually but the two dominant ones are that and then some variation of traditional americanism i wouldn't call it conservatism it looks like conservatism in a lot of ways but that's not really what it is but like that's basically those are the two major opposing camps and nothing can live with communism communism at its core doesn't compromise it is a virus and so either you become a host to the virus or you eradicate the virus there's not a compromise there well let me ask you because it used to be that when you say left and right it's somehow they mean different things than 10 years ago 20 years ago 30 years ago like i always considered myself, ah, left of center, on some issues right of center, but I feel like there's no center anymore.

6:10No, definitely not. So in America, left and right were, I used to joke that like left wing, right wing, it didn't matter because it was the same bird, right? Right. And that used to be true in America, but I feel like now the birds have split, right? Because the left has been co-opted by wokeism, right? Which is really just a modern dressing for communism. Like Marxist communism is what it is. But I feel like it's even more because it takes on all these cultural issues and maybe communism does that as well. Yeah, of course, that's what it does. That's what it's designed to do. I guess that's true because in order to do any kind of central planning, you have to make assumptions about hundreds of millions of people.

6:55To do any sort of central planning, you have to lie. You have to get people to either agree or submit to complete control, which is antithetical to core human desires for sovereignty. Everything about communism is about control. Everything. Everything. But in America, how did we get away with – like, okay, so it used to be, okay, you could be liberal if you feel people should pay higher taxes or in order to support different social programs. and you supported social programs that housed the homeless and took care of the sick and so on. But somehow that's moved at the same time as this cultural extremism happened, that's moved into this radicalized place.

7:44Stop. It's not cultural extremism. What we have is a host that has been invaded by a virus. if you think about this in biological terms right i'm not saying it's literally a biological event but it's it's just a good metaphor like um how many people do you know who really truly have trump derangement syndrome like i'm not a trump person right i'm not a maga person but i know a lot of people who are smart and capable and you can't talk about trump with them without them losing their minds and like they to the point where they're willing to lie about other things in order to justify they'll destroy themselves they'll destroy the people they love it's like the the hatred of trump is not even an idea that's theirs it's like something that's invaded them the same thing with woke how many people do you know who used to be probably usually high empathy right leftists whose minds have been invaded by by woke or pronouns or true bullshit or whatever you want to call it like whatever dressing it takes up and they literally don't think anymore they have been occupied it is a mind virus dude and i mean that in metaphorical terms but also in a lot of ways literal terms you know what a good antidote is when i'm talking to them is if and i i say tell me three policies that trump did that you dislike and they usually can't name three but has that ever worked oh have they changed their mind no but it usually stops the conversation that's that's how you know it's a virus dude you can't logically talk someone out of a position they didn't logically think themselves into that's right right it is it's a whole they're kind of uh they're very related but the point is is that um the core american populace used to have some base assumptions shared base assumptions but the point is the base assumptions are now gone right and so there's no more arguing it's now it's now a power struggle between two tribes that's what's going on and that's what's different i feel like i've never seen it's fundamentally different it's never happened in our lifetimes in america it's definitely happened in america's past if you know america's history a lot of times but it has not happened really in america there has not been true you can maybe make an argument for the immediate post world war ii period uh like up into some of the 60s that there were different tribes and then a dominant one won.

10:34Maybe, maybe not. But in our lifetimes, the last 40, 50 years, there has not been two tribes. There's been one tribe with a bunch of different variations on that tribe. There are now two different ones in America. And they are irreconcilable. At least two. What made them irreconcilable? Because that's true. People are willing now to more likely have violence than agree. Because the Marxist-Communist memetic virus invaded the left and turned them into zombies. and so there's no there's no you don't talk someone out of a position they didn't talk themselves into they they are now they are subjects they are hosts to a virus a mind a literal mind virus and that's it there's no more talking to them man until either they shake the virus they wake up from it or they destroy themselves or it wins that's it so that's how viruses work so i mean you've been living in texas where is is as an uber driver told me the other day is the epicenter of the civil war that is sure to come within the next couple months i don't think so i disagree actually i disagree too but but it's interesting how the news is playing out this uber driver by the way had his go bag in the car with him so he could go immediately to the mountains if the shit hits the fan as he said he told me to get plasma lights bio lights can't don't get canned food get lots of seeds and peanut butter and almond butter he was going to send me a whole list but what's what's going to happen what so what let's look at the current news so texas what's going on the border is open does biden want it open does of course but why does he want it open like it's clear that as people have said there's like uh first off let's back up military age men coming in let's back up for a second i mean i hope you realize that biden is literally a dementia patient who were he not being propped up as a stooge for other powers he would probably be in a nursing home yeah no that's like i think and the funny thing is that's not even a debatable Yeah, even when I'm talking with, let's say, my woke friends, they say the same thing.

12:53Okay. So let's stop pretending that Biden, I mean, a sharp, healthy, intelligent president, it's arguable how much control he has over the federal government. Biden, I don't think, is in this universe even, right? Okay. But it just goes to show how little power the presidency in general has, I feel. Yeah, I mean, that's almost certainly true, right? But, okay, so I don't know exactly who's in charge, but clearly someone or some group of people are, right? And there's only one thing to deduce from why would you want an open border, right? Because we know all the negative side effects. Like why would you want that?

13:34The only reason, and the Democrats have been pretty democratic elements in the Democratic Party, I should say, have been pretty open about this for the last three, four, five years. especially um they want to enfranchise every single league they want to create amnesty for all the illegals and turn them into voters and if that happens they have a permanent majority without that like if the if if every state voted on paper ballots only by citizens who had ids republicans would win every election right now basically why if you switch that if you enfranchise everyone especially if you aim to see all the illegals and turn them into voters the democrats win every election yeah so it's so first off what do you think really happened in 2020 then and by the way i didn't vote i'm not really on either side of this but the the whole It's so frustrating that people won't believe the evidence right in front of their face.

14:38I'm not going to pretend like I'm some expert on every single aspect of the 2020 election. But in the major swing states, Georgia, Wisconsin, I think Michigan. I mean, Wisconsin was the big one where it was like at 11 p.m., Trump was ahead by whatever, quarter million votes. and then the counting stopped and then at 3 a.m. Biden was ahead by 300 ,000 votes. You know, the line that went straight up and they found a box of votes that were 99 % Biden. Stop it. I mean, like, guys, if you want to believe that, that's fine. Then, you know, literally go eat the bugs and live in the pod and become batteries for the Matrix and then go ahead.

15:27of course it was a fraud of course it's transparently fraudulent it was so fraudulent that it's like it's comical that it's even a debate of course of course there was fraud i wonder what happened in georgia i mean it's preposterous dude it's so preposterous do you think there's fraud in every single election or was this like an outlier i doubt it i doubt it i i know i i think i would i would guess i don't think there was fraud in 2016 or at least enough because Trump won. Right? Like that doesn't make, no. I mean, like why would you cheat? It's sort of like there's no reason to cheat if both, if both, if it doesn't matter who wins.

16:09Like the great example is, you know, Romney versus Obama. Like it doesn't. Which by the way, best election ever because no one gave a shit. Well, but also it didn't matter who won. The exact same policies were going to be rolled out. So why would you cheat? There's nothing to cheat for. Right. No, that was actually the last. I missed that election because people were still friendly with each other. If you like Romney, if you like Obama, it didn't even matter. Yeah, but I mean, it was all a charade. I'm actually not that upset about what's going down. I think it's in the end, I think it's going to be great.

16:43It's going to be shitty to go through. But I think it's going to be fantastic.

16:49Just James, you know this. You don't get any growth without pain.

17:06look as a manager of people as an employer as an entrepreneur and as even an investor in startups i can tell you the most important thing for your business is the quality of the people you hire The best part is that great candidates are already on LinkedIn. Employees hired through LinkedIn are 30 % more likely to stick around for at least a year compared to those hired through the leading competitor. And I will tell you that the great thing about LinkedIn is that you're not just looking at random people. You're able to see the people who your friends and trusted peers and colleagues, who they trust and who they've hired in the past and who they recommend.

17:49And hiring doesn't have to be complicated. Realistically, when you have a business to run, you don't want to spend hours on hiring. You want to hire the right person as quickly as possible. That's why LinkedIn Jobs AI Assistant suggests immediately 25 great fit candidates daily so you can invite them to apply and keep things moving. Hire right the first time. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash altature, then promote it to use LinkedIn Jobs' new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find the top candidates. That's linkedin.com slash Altachirk. Post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.

18:25This message comes from Capital One. The Capital One VentureX business card has no preset spending limit, so the card's purchasing power can adapt to meet business needs. Plus, the card earns unlimited double miles on every purchase, so the more a business spends, the more miles earned. And when traveling, the VentureX Business Card grants access to over 1 ,000 airport lounges. The VentureX Business Card, what's in your wallet? Terms and conditions apply. Find out more at CapitalOne.com slash VentureXBusiness. Let's start with the pain in that right now you have this constitutional battle, which by the way, that by itself, it's very rare to have major constitutional battles happening all over the place, but it's starting to happen.

19:10You have this constitutional battle about who has control on the border. This civil war is not really, there's going to be shooting and violence, but it's not that kind of war. It's a memetic legal war, right? That's what's going to, this civil war is not going to be a war of the North versus South or East versus West or Coast versus the interior. That's not how this works. That's not how this is going to work. So how does this play out? Because we're not seeing a war. what we're seeing is an empire fall. Those are different things. Like the things that led up to the Civil War and why it went the way it went are fundamentally different than what's going on now.

19:52America has been an empire for at least 70 years, arguably longer, right? A true empire. And like Americans don't realize it because we don't live under the boot of American foreign policy, right? And our media feeds us only the shit that people in power want us to see, basically. And so that's what most people think. But it's a shocking thing, even now, to most Americans to learn that we aren't the good guy. And we haven't been the good guy for a long time. I mean, we as the foreign policy arm of the American government has been the bad guy for a long time. yeah and you you see this and how the rest of the world is i mean we use the dollar as a weapon in many cases and the rest of the world now is finally standing up and say say we use everything at our disposal as a weapon everything at our disposal so how does this how does this play out like you called you said the word civil war three years ago on this podcast what do you and now we're getting obviously closer to it what just because people are using the word more and more frequently And you're seeing these states are for Texas, these states are for the federal.

21:07Like, what do you see happening? So I'm not sure. No one knows the details, right? Like, if I did, I would probably just not do podcasts and make bets and then be quiet, right, to make sure my bets came in. But here's what I guess the most likely scenario is that, well, I don't think we're not going to see a civil war in any sort of shooting. Tons of pockets of violence, sure. Not like a two sides and shooting war. it doesn't make sense for a lot of different reasons so there's a lot of different ways this can go right like uh my guess is though what ends up happening is that we have a hollowed out federal government sort of like what would happen what exists in mexico like in mexico there's a federal government and they have an army and they you know they're they're a member of the un and all But the federal government has very, very limited power in Mexico.

22:03Mexico is a narco state run by a coalition of cartels that fight each other and work together and do all that. They are – I don't want to say they're the real power in Mexico, but they are truly powerful. And outside of a few specific enclaves, the federal government is powerless in Mexico. And I think what we're going to end up seeing is something somewhat similar in America, except it won't be run by cartels. It'll be run by coalitions of state governments. And so the feds aren't going away, but the feds are going to become essentially like a mafia that pretends it runs the neighborhood and still extracts rents from a lot of people, but isn't actually in charge anymore.

22:51um and what is the path to to get there because there's a lot of paths man it's a lot of paths because right now that's immense control yeah they do uh until states start saying no because there's not it depends what we're talking about right and it depends what state we're talking about and okay so i was really hoping trump was going to win in 2020 because i thought that would have been the most peaceful resolution because what would have happened is that a bunch of the leftist states would have joined together in some loose coalition and would have started separation stuff then. And if the left starts the separations, then they're going to be way more peaceful because the right is not, they're not going to try and keep them.

23:41They're not going to go after them. They're not going to attack them because the underlying moral philosophy of the right tolerates difference, right? Whereas communism does not at its core. It must kill difference. It must destroy it because any difference is a mirror that reminds it of its ugliness in a sense. Although it's funny you say that because again, and this has been a very big tactic of, I'm still going to call it, well, let's call it the woke. But historically, the right hasn't always tolerated difference. Like when you think of the right, you often think of the 1960s or 50s or 40s where there were segregationists on the right and a lot of racism and a lot of hate.

24:24Segregationists, so that's where you're wrong. You're totally wrong. Segregationists absolutely tolerate difference. They just want them elsewhere. I'm not like arguing in favor of segregation, but a segregationist by definition is someone who will tolerate difference because the alternative is murder. that's what communists do we only have a history of evidence in multiple dozens of countries around the world primarily china and russia they don't tolerate difference they don't segregate they just murder those are are fascists segregate communists murder it's funny how most people don't realize that fascism often comes from socialists.

25:18Fascism is the count. It doesn't come from it. It's the counter to communism. You know, like Nazis were the national socialists of Germany. That's what their party name was. Right. And they weren't fascists. They're communists at their core. That's why they're called the national socialists. Right. Like that's their name. Communists don't want a democratic, the DSA. They don't want people to understand that their lineage is what produced Nazis. because the enemies of communists are fascists, right? I mean, the philosophical, epistemological enemies of communists are fascists. Although both sides are we want to control everyone and boss them around and tell them what to do.

25:58The fascists are basically more like a thuggish mafia who will deal with difference as long as everyone pays. The communists want to kill everyone who doesn't agree with them. That's just, I mean, look at history. This is not some revolutionary insight. This is just the most basic foundational paying attention the last 100 years and nothing else. And a lot of this sort of socialist fascism is taught in our universities now, but they obviously know the histories. The socialist experiment hasn't worked anywhere. So we could get into this a little bit. Why do you think people don't simply realize that just by looking at basic history?

26:39Because facts have nothing to do with identity. People with personality disorders, people who have ego issues, people who have a lot of unhealed wounds, usually what they want to do is boss everyone else around. If I'm in charge of everyone, I don't have to deal with my own shit. Right? Why does someone become a professor? They love teaching? I don't know. No, that's horse shit. No one, I don't want to say no one. very few people will endure the the ignominy of academia just because they love teaching the the majority of people who will endure what it takes to become a professional academic especially the political side of it are people who quite honestly are screwed up people who want to tell everyone else what to do and that personality type can be on the right or the left or any side right that's not a an exclusively leftist thing at all but when it shows up on the left it is a very different version of what shows up on the right what shows up on the right is what you were talking i we grew up with the fundamentalist christians right uh dominating the you're not allowed to energy in america right like i came up as a as a comedy writer in that time i know exactly what those people are like and they're horrible and they're repressive but they they are not killers they want you to shut up or go away communists want will only tolerate agreement and if you don't agree they have to destroy you right right because one believes in god right and so that makes them they think they're superior and the other one's god is materialist and so the only god the only way they can essentially deal with their religion is to murder i mean this is this is so simple just look at it don't listen to what they say watch what they do and so and so now we're seeing these two constitutional battles one is to take you know the republican nominee or trump specifically off the ballot in certain states the other is this issue in the border where the supreme court has to oh you missed what i i don't think those either of those are more important than what just happened in hawaii what happened attention no oh dude see there's a lot there's a lot so there's a lot of constitutional battles going on those two are important but those are the two in the news the ones in the news are almost never the big ones to pay attention to sometimes they are but um uh because i'm in texas i'll tell you i think abbott is a rhino uh and i think uh all of the his fights with the feds i are at best a charade i don't think he's he's desantis has his flaws but i believe desantis believes what he's doing i don't think abbott does um texas has a major problem is that the republican party is controlled by rhinos i think that's shifting quickly but abbott's not abbott's doesn't care about america so you don't think he wants the border closed or i think i think he i think he wants whatever is going to make him look good and he doesn't care about actually effectuating any policy like Like, I mean, I can give you the details, but essentially the state of Texas shut off like a mile-long section of the board, right?

30:05It's like nothing. And like the whole – it's very complicated, all of it, but there's a showdown going on right now in the Texas Republican Party and the adjacent groups to see who's going to win, whether it's the RINOs or the hardcore conservatives, right? And Abbott's a RINO for sure. So that fight I think is in many ways a spectacle. I don't think it's the fight. The fight that I just saw that like really raised my eyebrows was Hawaii. Did you see what the state Supreme Court of Hawaii just did? No. They essentially declared themselves independent of the United States judiciary. Not essentially.

30:54They actually did. So FPC and some other groups sued after Bruin, the Supreme Court decision that basically reaffirmed the Second Amendment and extended it and said restrictions on concealed carry are illegal and all that stuff. It's a great decision. It was one of the sparkling moments of the Supreme Court. And so all these lawsuits were brought against all these restrictive state rules, and almost all of them have fallen. the and then hawaii has like crazy restrictive gun rules are obviously violative of the second amendment and um a couple of those cases got to the state supreme court in hawaii and the state supreme court struck all said we are going to we are rejecting um uh the precedent of bruin and we are rejecting essentially the second amendment because literally you can read the decision it's fucking kooky they quote like laws in other countries and some nonsense and then say in the spirits of aloha is contradictory to the ruling in brun so we're not going to follow it bro when a state court says we're not going to follow a clear a bright line black and white supreme court ruling that they even admitted like if we we should be if we follow brun the decision is to strike down all these laws.

32:23So we're not going to follow Broom. Like that's a major, major nullification. And that's on the left. That's on the left. They're making a bet that basically the government won't organize itself to attack them over their gun laws. They're making a bet that the feds are run by people who agree with them and nothing's going to happen. and they're probably right right now right and so he like okay all of these constitutional challenges are coming right and they're going now the the flashpoint i think is going to be the i mean this is not some deep insight the 2024 presidential election right like that's going to be the thing because for a lot of people this it feels like an existential event right like whatever side they're on, if their side wins, the world's saved.

33:18And if the other side wins, the world ends. Even more so than in 2020. Way more so in 2020. I feel like in 2020, people were still saying, okay, this is a normal election. We each just hope our side wins. People were living in denial. People were living in denial at the end of 2020. Most people aren't anymore. At least the people that matter and think and have power. And so... I have no idea what's going to happen in the 2024 election, man. There are so many wild cards. Like there's a lot of Republican groups that have figured out, well, the Democrats are going to ballot harvest. We're going to do the same thing.

33:55And I don't think anyone has any handle on how that's going to go because the American electoral system is not built on security. It's built on trust, and that trust is broken now. and what that's showing is that the electoral system is extremely manipulable by either side well just the idea that you don't need an id and is it true i mean i don't even know this is how naive i am is it the case that you don't always need an id to vote i have no yes yes how could that even be true right exactly exactly to go to the store exactly bro i listen you don't have to The arguments are so transparently ridiculous.

34:40But how do they justify that? Like who justifies that? Like what is their argument? Whoever, who justifies that is the left. And every justification boils down to, we want people to vote for us and many of them don't have ideas. But that's not a real justification. That's the real reason. When have facts ever mattered in political tribalism, James? Why do you keep doing this? Why do you keep saying, Why don't these people who don't think rationally think rationally? That's what you're saying. But again, they have a propaganda side to it as well. Like when they go on TV and they're asked, how can you justify?

35:17And they say what I just said, man. Go watch the videos. They don't make arguments, man. What they make appeals to tribalism. And that works on most people because most people don't think for themselves. the way most people assess what's true or not true is what does my tribe agree with? That's true. And what my tribe doesn't agree with is false. You don't do that. And I don't do that. It's why we're friends. And I know it's really hard for you to understand that mindset because it's so antithetical to how you think. Me too. But if you want to understand the world, you've got to understand that, man.

36:01No, very few people think the way you do. And if you didn't understand that pre-COVID, I hope you fucking get it now, man. Like you got it during, your face has been rubbed in it. Yes, my face has definitely been rubbed in it. And the most disturbing thing in COVID was how easily people just stopped going to work. They've always been this way, right? Like I, bro, I was shocked. Like friends of ours, famous friends of ours who are smart, who have done great shit, became absolute fucking shills for a transparent evil. And I was like, what? How? And continued into 21 and sometimes 22, doubled, tripled, quadrupled down.